Official Non NFC North NFL News 2014 (Unofficial Johnny Manziel)

[pbmax]

The humbling continues apace. You are no Brian Hoyer!


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/ray-farmer-hoyer-is-better-than-manziel-by-a-substantial-margin/

[mraynrand]

Brian Hoyer - He's like Matt Cassel out there!

[woodbuck27]

The humbling continues apace. You are no Brian Hoyer!


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/ray-farmer-hoyer-is-better-than-manziel-by-a-substantial-margin/

The Cleveland Browns G.M. Ray Farmer may be P.R. challenged!? :idea:

[bobblehead]

This is just a huge joke and blatant show of the double standard. Poor Jonathan Martin gets bullied by his OL and the world is coming to an end. Manziel is pushed around by the vets and the organization and its what he deserves. Tim Tebow can't land a tryout because he is a distraction (despite his winning at every level he ever played at...despite the fact that he is better than 90% of the backup QB's in the league), but Sams is gay and its a national production and they damn near run a reality show through TC because its a PC approved distraction.

Manziel is a scrambling QB who is likely to struggle until he learns the balance like all running QB's. Why does he need to be put in his place any more than Jonathan Martin or Andrew Luck? Why are his distractions bad, but Sams distractions are good for the game.

[Joemailman]

Manziel is a scrambling QB who is likely to struggle until he learns the balance like all running QB's. Why does he need to be put in his place any more than Jonathan Martin or Andrew Luck? Why are his distractions bad, but Sams distractions are good for the game.

Who is saying Sam's distractions are a good thing? He lasted until the 7th round probably because teams didn't want the distraction. The reality show has been cancelled in response to criticism that doing the show was inconsistent with Sam's claim that he is totally focused on football.

[mraynrand]

^^^ you are both hateful to call any Sams activities a distraction. Why must you treat him like a second class citizen?

[smuggler]

God I hope you were posting that ironically, mraynrand

[mraynrand]

God I hope you were posting that ironically, mraynrand

no, sarcastically. :)

[Guiness]

^^^ you are both hateful to call any Sams activities a distraction. Why must you treat him like a second class citizen?

i·ro·ny
ˈīrənē,ˈiərnē/
noun: irony

the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

Ya, it coulda been that.

[mraynrand]

sarcasm: the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.

Ya, it coulda been that. ;)

[Just Jeff]

The Kinsey report says that about 10% of males are gay. That puts about 10 in our camp and 5 on our roster. Besides TT, who are our homos?

[Bretsky]

The Kinsey report says that about 10% of males are gay. That puts about 10 in our camp and 5 on our roster. Besides TT, who are our homos?

I'm a full supporter of hot gals playing with other hot gals....I'll b the first to admit that........

[mraynrand]

The Kinsey report says that about 10% of males are gay. That puts about 10 in our camp and 5 on our roster. Besides TT, who are our homos?

that Kinsey report grossly overestimates the numbers. It is actually somewhere between 1-3%. Gay 'behavior' is an other issue.

Then factor in that participation in football is likely to select against gay participation (as opposed to say, ceramics and interior decorating*), and the numbers are likely to be even lower. Conclusion: TT is likely the only gay man in the organization (among players, coaches, player evaluation).


*warning: stereotype alert

[Pugger]

I think it is very presumptuous of folks to think Ted is gay just because he never married. My BIL is just a couple of years younger than TT but never married (I doubt he ever will) and he ain't gay.

[pbmax]

...Tebow...

Manziel is a scrambling QB who is likely to struggle until he learns the balance like all running QB's. Why does he need to be put in his place any more than Jonathan Martin or Andrew Luck? Why are his distractions bad, but Sams distractions are good for the game.

Some, not all, national guys (radio mostly) have been taking the opposite tack. They think the reality show was a catastrophe waiting to happen in vague but near certain terms.

However, two of these guys have advocated that Tebow should be in Jacksonville and Manziel was the obvious choice for Cleveland and they should let Johnny be Johnny. Some distractions and business bottom line considerations are allowed to intrude on football.

Which begs the question, would the Rams have though better of the show if they were getting a cut? :lol:

[pbmax]

The Kinsey report says that about 10% of males are gay. That puts about 10 in our camp and 5 on our roster. Besides TT, who are our homos?

I hear Kiwon's posse cresting over that hill down yonder ...

EDIT: Rand got there first.

[pbmax]

Back to topic, Manziel behind Hoyer make sense, especially now. Manziel behind Thigpen is just punishing the team and the fans.

ProFootballTalk: Hoyer looking better than Manziel (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/profootballtalk-hoyer-looking-better-than-manziel/)

[mraynrand]

I hear Kiwon's posse cresting over that hill down yonder ...

EDIT: Rand got there first.

I do my job.

[RashanGary]

What's the diff between being gay and homosexual behavior? If you suck dick, you're gay or at least bisexual, right?

[Just Jeff]

What's the diff between being gay and homosexual behavior? If you suck dick, you're gay or at least bisexual, right?

I'm not gay and I've never sucked dick, but there are some fraternity era photos with a penis resting on my lower lip. That was a long time ago. Does that answer your question?

[mraynrand]

What's the diff between being gay and homosexual behavior? If you suck dick, you're gay or at least bisexual, right?

You can be 'gay' - attracted to ostensibly someone of the same sex - but not act on it (inclination without the behavior). Alternatively, you can be straight and then 'experiment' with the same sex, without having a 'natural' attraction. And then everything in between. That's all I care to say about it outside FYI, unless Harlan shows up and poisons the thread.

[Fritz]

I'm not gay and I've never sucked dick, but there are some fraternity era photos with a penis resting on my lower lip. That was a long time ago. Does that answer your question?

Wow. That is a brave confession, even on the internet, for a heterosexual guy to make.

So how about ol' Steny Hoyer? How does a politician get to be a QB for the Browns?

[Joemailman]

that Kinsey report grossly overestimates the numbers. It is actually somewhere between 1-3%. Gay 'behavior' is an other issue.

Then factor in that participation in football is likely to select against gay participation (as opposed to say, ceramics and interior decorating*), and the numbers are likely to be even lower. Conclusion: TT is likely the only gay man in the organization (among players, coaches, player evaluation).


*warning: stereotype alert

You left out figure skating? :huh:

[Joemailman]

What's the diff between being gay and homosexual behavior? If you suck dick, you're gay or at least bisexual, right?

Or you're trying to stay alive in prison.

[bobblehead]

Who is saying Sam's distractions are a good thing? He lasted until the 7th round probably because teams didn't want the distraction. The reality show has been cancelled in response to criticism that doing the show was inconsistent with Sam's claim that he is totally focused on football.

Has anyone dared to say he is a distraction who teams shouldn't want around? Has anyone dared to say he should learn his place...be seen and not heard? Has anyone dared say one bad thing about a 7th rounder getting a mountain of attention? But mainly, he lasted until the 7th round because he lacks talent. I firmly believe he was only drafted because the NFL REALLY wanted him to be so all the "questions" wouldn't be raised. I would be willing to bet that all the Rams compensatory picks seem a tad high next year....yea, yea, me and colt, brothers in conspiracy theories.

[bobblehead]

that Kinsey report grossly overestimates the numbers. It is actually somewhere between 1-3%. Gay 'behavior' is an other issue.

Then factor in that participation in football is likely to select against gay participation (as opposed to say, ceramics and interior decorating*), and the numbers are likely to be even lower. Conclusion: TT is likely the only gay man in the organization (among players, coaches, player evaluation).


*warning: stereotype alert

And when you consider that TT's main job is evaluating tight ends, it kinda makes sense.

[bobblehead]

Some, not all, national guys (radio mostly) have been taking the opposite tack. They think the reality show was a catastrophe waiting to happen in vague but near certain terms.

However, two of these guys have advocated that Tebow should be in Jacksonville and Manziel was the obvious choice for Cleveland and they should let Johnny be Johnny. Some distractions and business bottom line considerations are allowed to intrude on football.

Which begs the question, would the Rams have though better of the show if they were getting a cut? :lol:

I guess my gripe is with the national "non football" media that is injecting itself into football. And I risk another warning about mixing politics and football. Sams is a hero to the left wing media. Vick deserved a second chance. Oil billionaire heir Jonny Football is a dick. Tebow is the worst kind of person. You don't see oprah, or anyone else asking why Tebow can't even land a backup contract. Its not like he is Jonny Jolly, Colt Lyerla, or Ray fucking Lewis...he is *gasp* a christian. I'm a fricking agnostic and I'm appalled by the way this kid is being treated. The media started a story line about inaccuracy, ignored his winning record, ignored him bumping off the defending superbowl champs, and basically let the NFL know that it would be a circus if anyone gave him a chance. Where is the story line about Michael Vick not learning what a hot read is in 14 (or whatever) seasons?

[bobblehead]

I'm not gay and I've never sucked dick, but there are some fraternity era photos with a penis resting on my lower lip. That was a long time ago. Does that answer your question?

No, it raises more. Didn't you portray yourself as a high school kid about 70 posts ago? hmmm....grown man posing as a teenager online.

[Joemailman]

Has anyone dared to say he is a distraction who teams shouldn't want around? Has anyone dared to say he should learn his place...be seen and not heard? Has anyone dared say one bad thing about a 7th rounder getting a mountain of attention? But mainly, he lasted until the 7th round because he lacks talent. I firmly believe he was only drafted because the NFL REALLY wanted him to be so all the "questions" wouldn't be raised. I would be willing to bet that all the Rams compensatory picks seem a tad high next year....yea, yea, me and colt, brothers in conspiracy theories.

He was considered to be a 4-5 round pick based on his talent. I think he lasted until the 7th round because a lot of teams didn't want the distraction, and the possible stress on the culture in the locker room. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[woodbuck27]

This is just a huge joke and blatant show of the double standard. Poor Jonathan Martin gets bullied by his OL and the world is coming to an end. Manziel is pushed around by the vets and the organization and its what he deserves. Tim Tebow can't land a tryout because he is a distraction (despite his winning at every level he ever played at...despite the fact that he is better than 90% of the backup QB's in the league), but Sams is gay and its a national production and they damn near run a reality show through TC because its a PC approved distraction.

Manziel is a scrambling QB who is likely to struggle until he learns the balance like all running QB's. Why does he need to be put in his place any more than Jonathan Martin or Andrew Luck? Why are his distractions bad, but Sams distractions are good for the game.

It's all about the value to the media or what's most topical and that $$$$$ sells $$$$$.

In this day and age it's over the top backwards.

Good is OK and bad is better. If it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to a normal intelligent moral decent living person. No matter as it's topical and all the press's attention is directed there.

So what do we do about the bullshit?

It's getting harder and harder to ignore as that means that it's winning/dominating in the negative.

[woodbuck27]

The Kinsey report says that about 10% of males are gay. That puts about 10 in our camp and 5 on our roster. Besides TT, who are our homos?

Dear Lord...is Ted Thompson GAY? I would have never imagined that!?

I simply see TT as introverted/socially inhibited.


On this topic and GAYness and observation. How tuned is your GAY Radar !?

Somehow after the third game of the Rangers and Canadians (NHL Playoff Conference Final Series)...I found myself on an American Network ABC which I avoid like sickness (the excessive commercial time) and a western time zone broadcast of the Bachelorette.

A stunning miss named "Andi Dorfman", seeing the initial 25 candidates....for another failed attempt at LOVE and Long Term Relationship.

Andi's really great looking:

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/wpgo/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Andy-Dorfman-Bio.jpg

Andi's approachable/playful:



I've never observed so many "GAY appearing" or unmanly sissified guys. There were a couple three fellas that I felt would have been sucking face off camera and with a few toddies in them. These guy's (GAYS) weren't on the show to get it done with Andi. It appeared to me as if they had a different agenda. Somehow the Bachelorette weeded these "fellas" out at the initial Rose Ceremony.


http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2014/05/20/chris-bukowski.jpg

[I]"Come on guuuuuys...It'ssssss OhhKaaaa."

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOg8Z0he7Q5V_zdAs-Eg1XTEaOX42h_xTAR0HehqP-HFl5jX8D5A


It looks to me like she has two three favourites or possibly "love at first sight candidates " and the rest are for elimination and entertainment.

The statistic I've read most on what percentage of the male population is gay runs between 2% (true homosexuals) - 10 % GAYS or 8 % bisexuals). I think that Kinsey announce way back that the male population of GAYS was around 10%.

It's pretty logical and now becoming accepted that GAY...ness in terms of a general population and declaration is a factor of environmental acceptance.

Andi Dorfman seems a bit overwhelmed early in this quest for LOVE. The fella that got the rose for "best first impression" wasn't selected as a first cut finalist. This show is over the top goofy as she's amazingly good looking and candid in her personality and could pick and choose. I mean this woman ROCKS in the good looks/charm department! Most of the 25 men seemed struck by her obvious charms/beauty.

I'll rule out the GAY fellas as being in that category. They were checking one another out.

Again... how good is your GAY Radar?

I'll offer this interesting LINK:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/opinion/sunday/how-many-american-men-are-gay.html?_r=0

[woodbuck27]

I think it is very presumptuous of folks to think Ted is gay just because he never married. My BIL is just a couple of years younger than TT but never married (I doubt he ever will) and he ain't gay.

He's maybe a lot like TT and just didn't get to the alter with some lady.

To have a job like the GM of a NFL team and be married with children can't be an easy dance.

Maybe TT simply realized that and his dedication to his job ruled out serious committed long term relationship and family!?

[smuggler]

He was considered to be a 4-5 round pick based on his talent. I think he lasted until the 7th round because a lot of teams didn't want the distraction, and the possible stress on the culture in the locker room. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

He was considered a 3-4 before the combine, where he performed poorly. People expected his lack of physical ability to drop him only a round or so, but it put him down three full rounds.

Meanwhile, a guy named Jackson Jeffcoat, almost as productive in college, more physically gifted, and less "media circus," went undrafted entirely. Go figure.

[Zool]

He was considered to be a 4-5 round pick based on his talent. I think he lasted until the 7th round because a lot of teams didn't want the distraction, and the possible stress on the culture in the locker room. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

SEC defensive player of the year (finalist?) in any other year would get a 4-5 round sniff from someone. He fell because of the pending media circus. Media puts up what sells. If we stop clicking, watching, etc. they will stop putting it on TV. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

[MadScientist]

SEC defensive player of the year (finalist?) in any other year would get a 4-5 round sniff from someone. He fell because of the pending media circus. Media puts up what sells. If we stop clicking, watching, etc. they will stop putting it on TV. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
He had a bad senior bowl week before the bad combine as well. Football outsiders did a statistical analysis / projection of all pass rushers (DE/OLB) and Sam came out dead last. You can bet that if some outside site is doing projections, teams are doing similar analysis and coming up with similar results. The SEC DPOY may have given him a 6th round sniff without the circus, but anything higher would have been a reach.

[mraynrand]

SEC defensive player of the year (finalist?) in any other year would get a 4-5 round sniff from someone. He fell because of the pending media circus. Media puts up what sells. If we stop clicking, watching, etc. they will stop putting it on TV. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Maybe the media circus would be good for NFL ratings, like it was for Tebow. Maybe not so much for the individual teams, but the NFL likes the attention. Perhaps it's a case where you can have your cake but can't tongue slather it on your lover's face too.

[Just Jeff]

He's maybe a lot like TT and just didn't get to the alter with some lady.

To have a job like the GM of a NFL team and be married with children can't be an easy dance.

Maybe TT simply realized that and his dedication to his job ruled out serious committed long term relationship and family!?

Or maybe he views females, not attached to another man via the contract of marriage, to be free agents.

[Just Jeff]

No, it raises more. Didn't you portray yourself as a high school kid about 70 posts ago? hmmm....grown man posing as a teenager online.

You'd be closer to the truth if you had said that I had posted as a high school kid about 70 years ago.

Truth > made up shit

[woodbuck27]

SEC defensive player of the year (finalist?) in any other year would get a 4-5 round sniff from someone. He fell because of the pending media circus. Media puts up what sells. If we stop clicking, watching, etc. they will stop putting it on TV. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

I think so too.

The day after the draft all the talk on NFL.Com was the Rams and embracing Sam as a defensive prospect and with the cenral theme of his unique NFL status related to his sexual preference.

It should be all of that and why? Who really cares?

So finally one of the NFL's Gay players finally outs himself and before he's drafted.

Tell me that wasn't all worked out in some detail. What's reality anymore?

Reality is 'the unreal" taking center stage.

Excuse me but I need a toasted cheese and a glass of homo milk.

[mraynrand]

Excuse me but I need a toasted cheese and a glass of homo milk.

good lord

[pbmax]

I guess my gripe is with the national "non football" media that is injecting itself into football.

There is too much here to respond to, but I have yet to see media complain about Manziel's grandfather's oil business. Football people moaning about his sense of entitlement (most of which was presumed before they met him) have been all over since the start of his sophomore season. I have seen stories about the strange nature of Manziel's family, but about the effect of wealth, not the oil business.

Non-football media injecting themselves into football matters often look dumb. While they may have something to say about the social significance of the signing, they know little about the motivations or needs of teams. Every round he dropped was evidence of conspiracy to some.

It should be noted Tebow had a Super Bowl commercial with Mom while Sam has stopped his reality show. Who is zooming who here?

And of the left I know about, most wanted Vick banned for life for abusing animals, not given a second chance. The constituencies for his second chance were mostly football clubs who weren't the Atlanta Falcons.

[Guiness]

He had a bad senior bowl week before the bad combine as well. Football outsiders did a statistical analysis / projection of all pass rushers (DE/OLB) and Sam came out dead last. You can bet that if some outside site is doing projections, teams are doing similar analysis and coming up with similar results. The SEC DPOY may have given him a 6th round sniff without the circus, but anything higher would have been a reach.

Yup, this is the way I see it too. Appeared at first to be a mid round talent, but laid an egg when it mattered, and hurt his draft position. The combine can make a huge difference, and the senior bowl is closely watched. He's undersized for an 4-3 DE, and for an OLB his combine numbers are awful.

Who knows, maybe he was distracted??? No doubt he was as preoccupied as hell with the going ons, and maybe the Rams landed themselves an unlikely sleeper, one that everyone was watching closely.

[Guiness]

Since this is the unofficial Manziel thread, I'll post a link to the recent sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Manziel here. In Florida, of course. We have Newfoundland, you guys get Florida (and Bieber). (hint: it's a hoax!)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/23/federal-court-in-florida-accepts-hoax-lawsuit-against-manziel/

[mraynrand]

It should be noted Tebow had a Super Bowl commercial with Mom while Sam has stopped his reality show. Who is zooming who here?

Whoa! A football player made a commercial? Stop the presses! Oh, THE HUMANITY!!!
http://images.uncyclomedia.co/uncyclopedia/en/thumb/f/f5/LeadZeppelin.jpg/180px-LeadZeppelin.jpg


I'm sorry, I may have missed it - did the Tebows shoot that under false pretenses at the draft?

[Guiness]

Hasn't Tebow retired and gotten a gig as a college ball analyst with ESPN?

[mraynrand]

Hasn't Tebow retired and gotten a gig as a college ball anal-yst with ESPN?

Sams could do the same thing!

[pbmax]

Whoa! A football player made a commercial? Stop the presses! Oh, THE HUMANITY!!!
http://images.unc-LeadZeppelin.jpg


I'm sorry, I may have missed it - did the Tebows shoot that under false pretenses at the draft?

A college player made a commercial prior to getting drafted. A first prior to the NFL, that I can recall. But both are the exact type of attention grabbing events that the NFL abhors because it doesn't and can't control them.

Predictably, it had many of the same chattering NFL people wondering if he was already demonstrating the chaos that might follow.

They are far more similar than dissimilar from the NFL's perspective.

[mraynrand]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

[pbmax]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

[mraynrand]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[pbmax]

I do not think the content (Tebow) nor the timing (Sam) caused their respective controversies with the NFL and its collective, breathless professional commentariat. If you reversed the issues, changed the topics completely or had them each hocking anti-aging socks, the NFL would have retreated to its fainting couch. Remember this is a League that thought less of Manziel when he wore his new line of workout gear from Nike to his Pro Day. Camo shorts?!

In the case of the wider world of news, news commentary and nightly cable "news" apocalypse-is-nigh programming, both topics and causes caused a predictable storm and backlash. Each side felt slighted and tried to portray itself as the plucky, misunderstood underdog. But Tebow's people were smart enough to finish up before the draft, where his ad did not end up hurting his stock.

Sam had picked a project that would run smack dab into the middle of football prep, so that unlike Tebow or other athletes with offseason, non-football pursuits, he would actually be actively participating in the dreaded distraction, rather than be done with it.

To bring this back round to the original point, being a left-wing hero (one of bobble's points) isn't earning Sam a pass here. He got blasted by the same distraction police Tebow did. The outside world freaked out according to Hoyle in each case (if they hadn't, the point of being on TV -a large audience- is lost). The success of each effort was largely a reflection of their timing, not the support base.

[bobblehead]

He was considered to be a 4-5 round pick based on his talent. I think he lasted until the 7th round because a lot of teams didn't want the distraction, and the possible stress on the culture in the locker room. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think he lasted because his combine stunk on ice. He isn't that talented and I will actually be surprised if he makes the team.

[bobblehead]

You'd be closer to the truth if you had said that I had posted as a high school kid about 70 years ago.

Truth > made up shit

I wasn't making up, simply recalling (poorly perhaps). I thought in your first few posts you said something about being pretty young and not remembering something or other. I could be mistaken and I'm not motivated enough to look back and see what it was I misunderstood. Carry on old man.

[mraynrand]

... them each hocking anti-aging socks..

I see some equivalency between the two situations, but not to the same extent apparently that you do.

Either way, no one gets as upset over inappropriate socks as the NFL.

[bobblehead]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

[pbmax]

I see some equivalency between the two situations, but not to the same extent apparently that you do.

Either way, no one gets as upset over inappropriate socks as the NFL.

Didn't even notice that. Nice call.

[pbmax]

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

Actually, I am not trying to compare the projects themselves, but their timing, intrusion (from the NFL's perspective) and reaction from the wider world.

Its possible the doc might have been exactly what you say, though without the cooperation of the team and League, they aren't going to get access to the other players. And I assume, but could be wrong, that Sam is sincere in wanting to make a roster, so I don't think he would sign off on a project designed to burn bridges. But they would not need to be hyper-aggressive to get inflammatory footage (should that be flammatory footage?). Someone will say something regrettable during camp (maybe just some fans) and that will be a story for 5 days. The documentary's only edge is access to Sam and his family.

To go back to the original point, I do think the NFL can come under siege when these topics come up. But that siege is predicable and pretty uniform. There are the usual public actors on both sides decrying the tragedy. The are omnipresent because they have to justify their paycheck. But what raises these two incidents are the people who feel they are in the middle, and I don't mean a political center. They would prefer to ignore all of it and not have their sports commingled with politics; sexual, reproductive or otherwise. I find this view common, though a bit naive. However, it crosses the political spectrum and does not accrue to one side or the other overall. We have seen some of them on this board when the topic strays from football (Tebow, Sam, Redskins).

They don't want to think or deal with the topic. And they are mad that folks keep dragging them back into it. Depending on the individual, you get some pretty vitriolic reactions. And I don't think those reactions are reserved to one side of the debate or the other. They are the aggrieved storks of debate.

[woodbuck27]

Since this is the unofficial Manziel thread, I'll post a link to the recent sexual harassment lawsuit filed against Manziel here. In Florida, of course. We have Newfoundland, you guys get Florida (and Bieber). (hint: it's a hoax!)
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/23/federal-court-in-florida-accepts-hoax-lawsuit-against-manziel/

Guiness!

Your drawing a comparison between Newfoundland and Florida?

Newfoundland is to Canada>>> what Florida is to the US of A !?

Let me see?

OK ...... I think that I get it >>> Former NFLD Premier Danny Williams?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/its-my-health-its-my-choice-danny-williams-says/article4311853/

'It's my health, it's my choice,' Danny Williams says:

Of his decision to have his heart surgery in the state of Florida.

Maybe it's something else ie: A comparison of Cod (NFLD) to Red Snapper (Florida).

Something bigger?:

Like "a Great White" shark tracked swimming in the Atlantic Ocean from the coast of Florida to the coastal waters of Newfoundland !?

Guiness:

I just discovered this little bit of a complaint by some person residing in N. Carolina RE: a visit and stay in NFLD. I found it amusing to read.

http://www.thetelegram.com/Opinion/Letter-to-the-editor/2013-08-06/article-3339832/%26lsquoSorry-Newfoundland,-you-are-not-what-I-expected%26rsquo/1

Gheeeesh ! Some people are just soooo anal.

[mraynrand]

^^^^ WTF?

[pbmax]

Johnny Maziel went to Vegas over the weekend. None seem pleased.

Paul Burmeister ‏@PaulWBurmeister 11h
I have no problem with Johnny Manziel enjoying/embracing his celebrity. There should also be an awareness of the image he's feeding.

Richard Deitsch ‏@richarddeitsch 10h
First Take is currently debating Johnny Manziel in Las Vegas. I imagine this is what hell is like if hell were in HD.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk May 25
Johnny Manziel parties in Las Vegas, hanging out with Gronk and spraying champagne http://wp.me/p14QSB-9ulJ

[pbmax]

Johnny rebuts:

http://instagram.com/p/oehLInI3CN/

[Brandon494]

It was a non issue in the first place.

[woodbuck27]

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/fTZZrTqk_5YUfQqWIqKpEQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusncaafexperts/manziel-resize.jpg

A Johnny Manziel Girlfriend Pic.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/wp-content/slideshow/2013/11/johnny-manziel-and-his-girlfriend/medium/Johnny-Manziel-girlfriend3.jpg

A Johnny Manziel Girlfriend pic.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.baconsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/johnny-manziel-sports-poem.jpg

A Johnny Manziel has girlfriends Pic.

[woodbuck27]

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/01/hanley15.jpg

Ohh Johnny !

[woodbuck27]

http://gridironexperts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Manziel_Hanley_2_1_optimized.jpg

" Hurry Up Johnny...... I need you."

[woodbuck27]

http://www.dallasnews.com/incoming/20121210-johnny-manziel-girlfriend-44.jpg.ece/BINARY/w595x467/johnny-manziel-girlfriend-44.jpg

" Hi Johnny "Football"."

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000353347/Vegas-a-mistake-for-Manziel

Was a weekend (this past weekend) a mistake for Johnny Manziel?

Comment woodbuck27:

Why should anyone really care if he was simply enjoying himself in a harmless pursuit of "HIS" life?

What if he went to the mens room too often? Would that be "Johnny Football... news worthy?

This man has a right to some privacy.

[mraynrand]

Stalker....

http://brightcove01.brightcove.com/4/275353188001/275353188001_1088658196001_073111-browns-mkt.jpg?pubId=275353188001

[pbmax]

Stalker....

http://brightcove01.brightcove.com/4/275353188001/275353188001_1088658196001_073111-browns-mkt.jpg?pubId=275353188001

Is it a daily feature on Cleveland TV news yet? Where is Johnny Manziel today?

Local News
Tease Weather and Sports
National News
Tease Weather and Sports
World News
Tease Sports and Weather
Feature Report on Local Animals
Tease Weather and Sports
Weather
Tease Weather and Sports
Sports
Tease Tomorrow's Weather and Sports
Manziel Report
Off the Cuff Small Talk

[woodbuck27]

Is it a daily feature on Cleveland TV news yet? Where is Johnny Manziel today?

Local News
Tease Weather and Sports
National News
Tease Weather and Sports
World News
Tease Sports and Weather
Feature Report on Local Animals
Tease Weather and Sports
Weather
Tease Weather and Sports
Sports
Tease Tomorrow's Weather and Sports
Manziel Report
Off the Cuff Small Talk

Johnny Manziel is more important news than the local weather report.

A tornado watch!? No problem compared to where Johnny "Football" is right now and doing what and with whom.

He's become the Paris Hilton of the NFL....and didn't even plan that fate.

[mraynrand]

"Now, when you're a quarterback in Auburn...you see that lovely lady there. She does go to to Auburn, I'm gonna admit that. But she is also Miss Alabama and that's A.J. McCarron's girlfriend, OK? And right there on the right is Dee Dee Bonner, that's A.J.'s mom. Wow, you quarterbacks, you get all the good-looking women. What a beautiful woman. Wow! Whoa!"

http://i.imgur.com/Lqpp92N.jpg

Breaking News on Cleveland Channel 19: Young Men like attractive women and drinking alcohol. Update at 11!

[mraynrand]

11:00 Update: Star QBs attract attractive women and adoring crowds. Sociologists are still attempting to explain this bizarre human psychological phenomenon!

[woodbuck27]

11:00 Update: Star QBs attract attractive women and adoring crowds. Sociologists are still attempting to explain this bizarre human psychological phenomenon!

Get to work.

Your abusing your employer.

[mraynrand]

Get to work.

Your abusing your employer.

True. I need to eat more green veggies.

[pbmax]

Johnny Manziel is more important news than the local weather report.

A tornado watch!? No problem compared to where Johnny "Football" is right now and doing what and with whom.



Agreed. That is why he comes at the end of the broadcast in the US. Need you to watch all those commercials.

[Guiness]

We are allowed to talk about quarterbacks not named Manziel in here, right?

Freeman dumped by the Giants. Eli was able to participate in OTAs, so his camp arm wasn't needed anymore.

Crazy how the wheels fell off for this guy. 26 years old, went to the probowl as an alternate in 2010. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in TB with Shianco there, but he's been through 2 more franchises now. His career path is looking like VY's.

[pbmax]

We are allowed to talk about quarterbacks not named Manziel in here, right?

Freeman dumped by the Giants. Eli was able to participate in OTAs, so his camp arm wasn't needed anymore.

Crazy how the wheels fell off for this guy. 26 years old, went to the probowl as an alternate in 2010. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in TB with Shianco there, but he's been through 2 more franchises now. His career path is looking like VY's.

So was Schiano right and Morris wrong?

Or did Schiano cause the problem?

Outside of his rookie year, he was never in good hands with coaching on the offense. The Bucs were still reeling from Jagodzinski's aborted tenure.

[woodbuck27]

We are allowed to talk about quarterbacks not named Manziel in here, right?

Freeman dumped by the Giants. Eli was able to participate in OTAs, so his camp arm wasn't needed anymore.

Crazy how the wheels fell off for this guy. 26 years old, went to the probowl as an alternate in 2010. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in TB with Shianco there, but he's been through 2 more franchises now. His career path is looking like VY's.

I wonder if he'll try the CFL?

Former star and personally troubled WR Chad Johnson (formerly Chad Ochocinco) has been signed by the Montreal Alouettes. He seems happy about that and Montreal is a world class city. It'll be interesting to see how he does in the CFL. I hope he can turn his life around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Johnson_(American_football)

[Just Jeff]

I wonder if he'll try the CFL?

Former star and personally troubled WR Chad Johnson (formerly Chad Ochocinco) has been signed by the Montreal Alouettes. He seems happy about that and Montreal is a world class city. It'll be interesting to see how he does in the CFL. I hope he can turn his life around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Johnson_(American_football)


Its too cold in Montreal and the french look down at black folk. Its real hard for Montreal to attract top notch talent.

[Guiness]

Its too cold in Montreal and the french look down at black folk. Its real hard for Montreal to attract top notch talent.

Holy fuck that noise I'm hearing must be your butt cheeks slapping together while you're talking. The french, as a whole, are very tolerant and accepting of blacks. There is a very active Senegalese community in Montreal, among others. France itself maintained relationships with its African colonies and I have seen more Africans walking around France than any other European country. They have some messed up policies concerning immigration to Quebec, but they apply to everyone!

[Guiness]

So was Schiano right and Morris wrong?

Or did Schiano cause the problem?

Outside of his rookie year, he was never in good hands with coaching on the offense. The Bucs were still reeling from Jagodzinski's aborted tenure.

I'm looking at what happened after his time with the Bucs as much as anything else. The Vikings got a long look at him, and decided to pass. It didn't take the Giants long to let him go, keeping Curtis Painter instead.

[Brandon494]

We are allowed to talk about quarterbacks not named Manziel in here, right?

Freeman dumped by the Giants. Eli was able to participate in OTAs, so his camp arm wasn't needed anymore.

Crazy how the wheels fell off for this guy. 26 years old, went to the probowl as an alternate in 2010. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in TB with Shianco there, but he's been through 2 more franchises now. His career path is looking like VY's.

Yea I don't understand, I still remember this guy beating us in his first start in the NFL. Everyone was going crazy after that lost calling for TT head on another message board I use to post on. I tried to defend TT stating how we were going in the right direction and was ban by a Favre loving Admin. Anyway long story short I started posting here more and we went on to win the SB that year. I made another account to post a "told ya so" thread on that board and was ban again. :-)


I also heard the Packers were thinking about bringing him in if they didn't sign Flynn.

[pbmax]

I'm looking at what happened after his time with the Bucs as much as anything else. The Vikings got a long look at him, and decided to pass. It didn't take the Giants long to let him go, keeping Curtis Painter instead.

He was clearly a camp arm for the Giants and didn't get much time with them.

The Vikes are interesting, I wonder whether he was let go independently or if he went out with a new O coaching staff?

[Guiness]

Reports out of the Giants camp now are that Freeman couldn't pick up the offense. He was pulled from a practice session for lining up the O incorrectly. He was only there for 6 weeks, but he should've had the basics by then. You have to wonder how he had that great season.

He might've been primarily a camp arm for the Giants, but you have to think they were hoping he'd turn into a bit more.

[Joemailman]

Reports out of the Giants camp now are that Freeman couldn't pick up the offense. He was pulled from a practice session for lining up the O incorrectly. He was only there for 6 weeks, but he should've had the basics by then. You have to wonder how he had that great season.

He might've been primarily a camp arm for the Giants, but you have to think they were hoping he'd turn into a bit more.

That basically what I heard coming out of Minnesota last year. Tampa Bay must have had a pretty simple system that he could handle in 2010.

[Brandon494]

That basically what I heard coming out of Minnesota last year. Tampa Bay must have had a pretty simple system that he could handle in 2010.

He scored a 27 on the wonderlic test so I don't think thats the problem. There have been rumors about him being a coke head which makes the most sense to me.

[mraynrand]

Its too cold in Montreal and the french look down at black folk. Its real hard for Montreal to attract top notch talent.

Noah Way!

http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/0/71/73/0/@/540548-yannick-noah-paris-13-octobre-2010-637x0-1.jpg

[woodbuck27]

Its too cold in Montreal and the french look down at black folk. Its real hard for Montreal to attract top notch talent.

It does get cold in montreal in the winter months. It gets cold in Canada in the winter months.

The CFL schedule runs from (this seaon ) June 09, 2014 through to the playoffs and the Grey Cup Game scheduled for NOV. 30, 2014. It's not cold generally in Canada in late November.

Montreal Average Monthly Temperatures:

Avg. May: 14.5ºC / 58.1ºF

June: 19.3ºC / 67ºF

July: 22.3ºC / 72ºF

Aug.: 20.8ºC / 69ºF

Sept. :15.7ºC / 60ºF

Oct. : 9.2ºC / 49ºF

Nov. : 2.5ºC / 36.5ºF

It's football not beach volleyball. :idea:

Montreal and racism: I believe your pulling our legs but just in case. Montreal is in Canada. If your a decent person here you don't get into trouble. You don't see trouble and that related to racism. If your a White or Black and you screw up or attract the attention of the law. You'll be generally treated the same inspite of your race or color if your attitude is cool.

I'll offer this:

http://www.educ.ualberta.ca/css/Css_35_4/BRmontreal.htm

In The Road To Now...a description of the rather rueful black experience in Montreal, Quebec.

Author (Dorothy Williams) provides a historic overview of the black experience in Montreal; from the days of black slavery in New France to the present.


Williams asserts that the period between 1897 and 1930 witnessed the beginning of a genuine black community in Montreal. During this thirty year period, important institutional development took place:

The establishment of the Union United Church in 1907.

The Universal Negro Improvement Association in 1919.

The Negro Community Centre in 1927.

Williams monitors the activities of these three institutions in assessing the changing nature of Montreal's black community.

** For black males, most of whom lived in the city's West End. The railways were the dominant source of employment. Blacks were hired as redcaps, sleeping car porters and cooks.

This racially segregated hiring policy had many advantages for the railways:

Wage rates for black labor were low.

The author maintains that the predominantly white travelling public gained a feeling of superior status when attended to by black personnel, thus enhancing the romance of rail travel.

** The dominant occupation for black females was domestic service with all the pitfalls associated with that occupation.

** World War II brought changes to both male and female working blacks.

Women found employment in war industries and many of the porters working for the CPR were unionized, giving them added job security and presumably better working conditions.

** The decade of the 1960s marked the introduction of "well educated" French-speaking Haitians into Montreal's black community.

** In the 1970s the city's West End no longer defined the boundaries of Montreal's blacks as the latter moved into white districts giving rise to increased friction between the two races.

An overview:

From their introduction to New France as slaves until the arrival of the well-educated French-speaking Haitians of the 1960s, the author Dorothy Williams states that Montreal blacks have been subjected to constant racial discrimination.

In earlier periods as porters, redcaps and domestics to more recent years as taxi drivers, they have had to struggle to preserve some semblance of human rights and dignity.

During periods of prosperity for white Quebeckers, black Montrealers have failed to prosper equitably because of racial prejudice. The struggle continues in the present-day environment where police-black relations in the city remain problematic.

So there is support for your post there Just Jeff except for this:

Chad Johnson will be given celebrity status and if he's a decent citizen will be treated like you or I would be. If he screws up he'll place himself in jeopardy and that and the police means stay calm and keep your mouth shut. Get your lawyer ASAP for support. In every police force there exists an element of darkness that you hope won't beset you. Police forces have their pricks...bad guys.

Your post and the temperatures in Montreal being a deterrent and Chad Johnson playing for the Montreal Alouettes:

Not so and Montreal or Canadian in general (average temperatures) AND playing Football.


*** http://en.montrealalouettes.com/video/index/id/96417

Press Conference: Chad Johnson arrives at training camp


" Alouettes receiver Chad Johnson met the Montreal media for the first time on Wednesday on the campus of Bishop's University in Sherbrooke, QC. "

Posted : May 28, 2014


*** http://en.montrealalouettes.com/video/index/id/96417

http://en.montrealalouettes.com/video/index/id/96417

ONE-on-ONE with Chad Johnson


We caught up with the newest member of the Alouettes, former Pro Bowl receiver Chad Johnson, to talk about his return to pro football, find out what he knows about Montreal, and get some tips on Twitter."

Posted : May 27, 2014

*** http://en.montrealalouettes.com/video/index/id/96417

Chad Johnson works out with the Alouettes

Posted : April 17, 2014

Now the winter months and Montreal. Quebec,Canada is something else:

http://gocanada.about.com/od/quebe1/tp/Montreal-Weather.htm

[pbmax]

Just Jeff was Just Joking. Read it again and think about it.

[woodbuck27]

Just Jeff was Just Joking. Read it again and think about it.

Just joking or not. Just Jeff's post is certainly worthy and debateable. Otherwise I personally have "no issue" with his post.

No that's not exactly the case and your response pbmax. What makes you so astute?

I would like to know "how" a person here can tell when a member is "just joking" or not!?

I qualified my response in terms of that "or just joking"; but on the whole the post appears serious.

If the post is "in fact" serious there is merit in it's claim in terms of Montreal and racism.

Black people that want to attract attention in Montreal or negative attention and the authorities happens. In Montreal the fact of racial profiling and the Montreal Police Dept. is a pertinent and real concern if not a valid huge issue. Montreal is a Cosmopolitan City and color and the population is a fact of life.

Sometimes the police don't handle things as best as they might. In many professions workers have good and bad days. There is plenty that causes the Police to have a bad shift.

I maintain that if your arrested for anything and you act like an idiot you might get the crap beat out of you by the police. That's not reserved just for BLACKS.

[pbmax]

I would like to know "how" a person here can tell when a member is "just joking" or not!?

Because its a direct transfer of this discussion we had just one month ago (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26787-Free-Agents-and-Green-Bay&highlight=Green+Bay). It also has nothing in the way of evidence or examples to tie the two together except Chad Johnson. And since Chad just signed with Montreal, I doubt he is using Chad as evidence of FA acquisition trouble by the Montreal club.

So on the one hand, a lot of off-hand assertions call back to a previous discussion possibility for amusement.

On the other hand, not much in the way of a serious assertion or evidence.

As always, I could be wrong. But I don't think so in this case.

[Just Jeff]

I'm a very complex person with layers of personality, but on this one, I may have just been funning. It was a sarcastic post, similar to the ones that we see all too often about how GB can't possibly get FA to come here, because its so cold and white.

[Guiness]

Because its a direct transfer of this discussion we had just one month ago (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26787-Free-Agents-and-Green-Bay&highlight=Green+Bay). It also has nothing in the way of evidence or examples to tie the two together except Chad Johnson. And since Chad just signed with Montreal, I doubt he is using Chad as evidence of FA acquisition trouble by the Montreal club.

So on the one hand, a lot of off-hand assertions call back to a previous discussion possibility for amusement.

On the other hand, not much in the way of a serious assertion or evidence.

As always, I could be wrong. But I don't think so in this case.

I obviously also did not draw the line to the previous discussion - I went and looked at it, I assume you're referring to the post by mraynrand, there's no reference to ochocinco.
If it was a sarcastic post, I did get defensive and overreacted, but even reading it now, if it was sarcastic it was delivered Steven Wright like. It's probably not helped by the fact that I have trouble differentiating between Just Jeff and Rutnstrut who both seemed to become active at the same time.

[Cheesehead Craig]

He scored a 27 on the wonderlic test so I don't think thats the problem. There have been rumors about him being a coke head which makes the most sense to me.

When Freeman was with the Vikes and then didn't even suit up after a bit, the whole "insider" talk on the radio up here was that he wasn't picking up the offense and simply was bad. The injury talk was deemed as a coverup for his complete suckiness. He may have scored a 27 on the Wonderlic, but we all know there's book smart and there's football smart.

[pbmax]

I obviously also did not draw the line to the previous discussion - I went and looked at it, I assume you're referring to the post by mraynrand, there's no reference to ochocinco.
If it was a sarcastic post, I did get defensive and overreacted, but even reading it now, if it was sarcastic it was delivered Steven Wright like. It's probably not helped by the fact that I have trouble differentiating between Just Jeff and Rutnstrut who both seemed to become active at the same time.

Yeah, it can be hard to pick this stuff up on a message board, esp. when you don't know the history of the poster.

I simply remember him previously being jocular. To me, it read just like a post on that older thread even if its not a duplicate of any one post. Change Montreal to Green Bay, and it fits.

I also assume that any single line post is probably trying to get my goat, one way or another.

[pbmax]

Leadership.

Dez Bryant’s $55,000 rookie dinner tab was an eye opener (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/01/dez-bryants-55000-rookie-dinner-tab-was-an-eye-opener/)

Or lack thereof.

[Guiness]

Leadership.

Dez Bryant’s $55,000 rookie dinner tab was an eye opener (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/01/dez-bryants-55000-rookie-dinner-tab-was-an-eye-opener/)

Or lack thereof.

I commented on that story - said "notice he did not say he would prevent this from happening again". Also, iirc he was targeted by the vets for refusing to carry one of the vet WR's pads.

[red]

He scored a 27 on the wonderlic test so I don't think thats the problem. There have been rumors about him being a coke head which makes the most sense to me.

smarts has nothing to do with it i think. i have a very high IQ (well pretty high anyways), yet in high school i could not learn or remember plays to save my life, no matter how many times we ran them or how many hours i studied them

all those x's and o's and lines just turned into big jumbles up messes once they got into my brain

[mraynrand]

I'm a very complex person with layers of personality, but on this one, I may have just been funning. It was a sarcastic post, similar to the ones that we see all too often about how GB can't possibly get FA to come here, because its so cold and white.

Green Bay has a restaurant that makes pretty good chimichanga and it did nothing to attract Tony Gonzales.

[mraynrand]

smarts has nothing to do with it i think. i have a very high IQ (well pretty high anyways), yet in high school i could not learn or remember plays to save my life, no matter how many times we ran them or how many hours i studied them

all those x's and o's and lines just turned into big jumbles up messes once they got into my brain

Pot smoking could explain this apparent contradiction.

[woodbuck27]

smarts has nothing to do with it i think. i have a very high IQ (well pretty high anyways), yet in high school i could not learn or remember plays to save my life, no matter how many times we ran them or how many hours i studied them

all those x's and o's and lines just turned into big jumbles up messes once they got into my brain

You weren't PO'd you were XO'd.

[MadScientist]

Cowboys are installing ballet bars to help players stretch out and reduce hamstring injuries.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/cowboys-install-ballet-bars-to-help-get-loose/

Packers should look into this. It can't make the Packer's injury situation any worse.

[Cleft Crusty]

Cowboys are installing ballet bars to help players stretch out and reduce hamstring injuries.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/cowboys-install-ballet-bars-to-help-get-loose/

Packers should look into this. It can't make the Packer's injury situation any worse.

I blew out my hamstring doing the dance of the sugarplum fairy.

[pbmax]

I blew out my hamstring doing the dance of the sugarplum fairy.

Being high on peyote at the time didn't help Mr. Retired Traveler.

[pbmax]

Even if the Packers get hammy injuries at a rate that suggests a practice field built over an ancient Indian Burial Mound, its still not the Factory of Excellence.

Ankle injury puts D.J. Hayden in a walking boot (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/ankle-injury-puts-d-j-hayden-in-a-walking-boot/)

[ThunderDan]

Even if the Packers get hammy injuries at a rate that suggests a practice field built over an ancient Indian Burial Mound, its still not the Factory of Excellence.

Ankle injury puts D.J. Hayden in a walking boot (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/ankle-injury-puts-d-j-hayden-in-a-walking-boot/)

What a great website. One of the ads was for FilipinoCupid. I knew that Wist would approve.

[pbmax]

Not hitting in practice is taking a toll on the health of the Seahawks. Plus PEDs.

Bruce Irvin has hip surgery (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/02/bruce-irvin-has-hip-surgery/)

[pbmax]

Stunning Report: A Relatively High Profile Surgery Went Well

according to diligently researched reporting 3 hours after it concluded.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 9h
Initial word on Bruce Irvin's surgery very positive. Should return strong and w/o limitations. Expected back at some point in training camp

[Joemailman]

Stunning Report: A Relatively High Profile Surgery Went Well

according to diligently researched reporting 3 hours after it concluded.

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 9h
Initial word on Bruce Irvin's surgery very positive. Should return strong and w/o limitations. Expected back at some point in training camp

Is he ahead of schedule with his recovery yet?

[mraynrand]

Is he ahead of schedule with his recovery yet?

Where is the Youtube video chronicling his journey back to starting in the NFL?

[pbmax]

Where is the Youtube video chronicling his journey back to starting in the NFL?

His pain tolerance is higher than most. And he is a notoriously fast healer.

[denverYooper]

His pain tolerance is higher than most. And he is a notoriously fast healer.

It's almost as if he possesses a superior biochemical makeup.

[Guiness]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24580204/random-guy-showed-up-at-browns-practice-looking-for-a-tryout

Makes sense to me. Reads like an Onion article!

[woodbuck27]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24580204/random-guy-showed-up-at-browns-practice-looking-for-a-tryout

Makes sense to me. Reads like an Onion article!

Yea sure but that man was:

http://cdn2.screenjunkies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/kevin-costner-6.jpg

Come Onnn..... let me in !

[pbmax]

Oh, good. Steelers will come out of the gate like gangbusters but by the end of the season, it'll be another soap opera. Ben is calling the shots on offense:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/08/ben-roethlisberger-says-steelers-will-run-more-no-huddle-this-year/

Background: One way Todd Haley and Ben have made their peace (Haley was forced on the team by owners/front office to bring back the run game when they forced Arians out) is that they run Haley's offense when in normal huddle mode, but when they run no-huddle, Ben gets to call his own plays.

So Ben is asserting that the offense will be run his way.

[Cheesehead Craig]

So Ben is asserting that the offense will be run his way.

Back to the raping and pillaging days of the Steeler offense.

[bobblehead]

Yea I don't understand, I still remember this guy beating us in his first start in the NFL. Everyone was going crazy after that lost calling for TT head on another message board I use to post on. I tried to defend TT stating how we were going in the right direction and was ban by a Favre loving Admin. Anyway long story short I started posting here more and we went on to win the SB that year. I made another account to post a "told ya so" thread on that board and was ban again. :-)


I also heard the Packers were thinking about bringing him in if they didn't sign Flynn.

He fits the mold...puss armed game manager.

[bobblehead]

I'm a very complex person with layers of personality, but on this one, I may have just been funning. It was a sarcastic post, similar to the ones that we see all too often about how GB can't possibly get FA to come here, because its so cold and white.

Duh...all snow is white.

edit: except for yellow snow...never eat the yellow snow.

[Just Jeff]

I tried to defend TT stating how we were going in the right direction and was ban by a Favre loving Admin.

What board was that? I post on many boards but hard to find one where TT hasn't been beatified.

[mraynrand]

http://file.vintageadbrowser.com/00hz554yjtvojz.jpg

[Brandon494]

What board was that? I post on many boards but hard to find one where TT hasn't been beatified.

scout.com

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/scott-wells-restructures-contract/

If only they had kept Wells, the Packers could be the team reaping this cap windfall.

[Cleft Crusty]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/scott-wells-restructures-contract/

If only they had kept Wells, the Packers could be the team reaping this cap windfall.

Does he have the same agent as Kaepernick?

[Brandon494]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/scott-wells-restructures-contract/

If only they had kept Wells, the Packers could be the team reaping this cap windfall.

We wouldn't have Josh Boyd though

[Just Jeff]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/scott-wells-restructures-contract/

If only they had kept Wells, the Packers could be the team reaping this cap windfall.

Why do that when we two centers on the roster, that haven't taken a snap, poised for breakout seasons?

[pbmax]

Why do that when we two centers on the roster, that haven't taken a snap, poised for breakout seasons?

That's why the Saturday idea seemed like such a natural fit but instead turned to bitter tears of recrimination over a lost generation and QB.




EDITED: because I can no longer type a complete sentence with a recognizable grammatical structure

[Brandon494]

Why do that when we two centers on the roster, that haven't taken a snap, poised for breakout seasons?

Can't blame Wells for taking the money and can't blame TT for not paying him. With that being said even though they have yet to take a snap I like the potential of both our guys, people forget how well Tretter tested coming out last year.

[Just Jeff]

Can't blame Wells for taking the money and can't blame TT for not paying him. With that being said even though they have yet to take a snap I like the potential of both our guys, people forget how well Tretter tested coming out last year.

AR disagrees with you.

[Brandon494]

AR disagrees with you.

Just because hes a good QB doesn't mean he would be a good GM, maybe he just liked the way Well's balls felt.

[Just Jeff]

Just because hes a good QB doesn't mean he would be a good GM, maybe he just liked the way Well's balls felt.

I'd take a set of darts and a draft board over TT's Oline prowess.

[mraynrand]

I'd take a set of darts and a draft board over TT's Oline prowess.

Take it to the Garbage Can

[woodbuck27]

Can't blame Wells for taking the money and can't blame TT for not paying him. With that being said even though they have yet to take a snap I like the potential of both our guys, people forget how well Tretter tested coming out last year.

Weigh that (how well he tested) Vs the fact he's not experienced a single series as an NFL OL Center !

How optimistic should we be?

[Brandon494]

Weigh that (how well he tested) Vs the fact he's not experienced a single series as an NFL OL Center !

How optimistic should we be?

Bakhtiari had to do it last season playing the hardest position on the OL. He didn't have the greatest season but he held up well for a 4th round pick facing some of the top pass rushers in the league. Tretter has a year under his belt learning the offense and getting stronger. He'll also have two good players at guard helping him along the way. He is smart and athletic, I don't see our offense missing a beat with him at center.

[pbmax]

Weigh that (how well he tested) Vs the fact he's not experienced a single series as an NFL OL Center !

How optimistic should we be?

We can't know how the player will play, but rookie lineman do fine in the NFL. As center, he has more calls to make, but he has had a year to learn and practice. Not typical of a rookie.

[pbmax]

THEY ARE DOOMED!!

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
Hat backwards?? #internetgasp RT @Browns: Signing day for @JManziel2 pic.twitter.com/hzceMzpcI9


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bqa6iJUCYAEKUAq.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Headline: Brady Quinn: Manziel needs to tone act down (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24591480/brady-quinn-has-an-issue-with-how-johnny-manziel-conducts-himself-)

Reaction: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA!

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/21/scott-linehan-takes-firm-control-of-the-cowboys-offense/

Scott Linehan may be #3 on the org chart of offensive coaches, but he seems to be the one in charge of the Cowboys offense.

Long live Jerry Jones.

[Joemailman]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/michael-vick-on-running-quarterbacks-i-started-it-all/

It turns out Michael Vick was the first QB who could run and pass. Which will doubtless come as news to guys like Steve Young and Randall Cunningham.


“I was the guy who started it all,” Vick told ESPN.com. “I revolutionized the game. I changed the way it was played in the NFL.”

“The things I’ve done, I’ve pretty much surpassed myself and expectations — over 25,000 yards in total offense in the NFL, and I missed a lot of years and a lot of games,” he said. “That’s more the reason I have to keep it going.”

[Brandon494]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/michael-vick-on-running-quarterbacks-i-started-it-all/

It turns out Michael Vick was the first QB who could run and pass. Which will doubtless come as news to guys like Steve Young and Randall Cunningham.

Lets be real here, sure Young and Cunningham could run but neither were anywhere close to Vick. I think he did open up the game for some guys, back in the day if a guy ran a 4.4 or 4.5 40 teams were not playing them at QB.

[woodbuck27]

What board was that? I post on many boards but hard to find one where TT hasn't been beatified.

With all respect;

The meaning of beatified:

http://www.walksofitaly.com/blog/vatican/beatification-ceremony-john-paul-ii-vatican-Teresa

** “Beatification” is the step right before sainthood.

** By beatifying someone, the Church ( Edit: The Roman Catholic Church) proclaims that the person in question is:

a) definitely in Heaven, and

b) definitely able to plead to God on your behalf if you pray to him.

(This is theoretically true for any other Christians in Heaven, too. But beatification is meant to be a rigorous process in order to prove this is the case).

Before you can be beatified, the Church (Edit: The R.C. Church) has to investigate and make sure that all of your writings show “purity of doctrine” (i.e., nothing against the faith!) and that all of your actions were motivated by virtue.
If you pass that test:

For that level, the Church has to prove also either that you were martyred or that you caused a miracle after your death.

**** After beatification, you’re then called “Blessed.”



Ted Thompson - Green Bay Packers GM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Thompson

" Ted Thompson played college football at Southern *Methodist* University....



Comment woodbuck27:

* If I assume? that then Ted Thompson was raised as "a Methodist" or a long ways apart from being raised as a Roman Catholic !?

RE: Ted Thompson:

Can we agree to move right past the status of being recognized as being beatified >>>> to something more appropriate for Ted Thompson:

Doesn't he deserve the status description as ...BLESSED !?

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/scott-wells-restructures-contract/

If only they had kept Wells, the Packers could be the team reaping this cap windfall.

Maybe !?

[woodbuck27]

Why do that when we two centers on the roster, that haven't taken a snap, poised for breakout seasons?

This question applies here:

" Does the chicken come before the egg? "

[Patler]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/michael-vick-on-running-quarterbacks-i-started-it-all/

It turns out Michael Vick was the first QB who could run and pass. Which will doubtless come as news to guys like Steve Young and Randall Cunningham.

"Back in the day" there were QBs who "scrambled" and racked up rushing yardage when pass plays broke down, but the first QBs I can remember for whom running was a frequent option were Greg Landry and Bobby Douglas. Landry was a decent passer, Douglas not so much, but Douglas rushed for just short of 1,000 yards in a 14 game schedule. In their most productive rushing seasons, Douglas' and Vicks' total rushing stats were similar, but in carries per game and rushing yards per game, Douglas comes out on top:

Douglas in 14 game schedule in 1972 - 141 carries, 968 yards.
Vick in a 16 game schedule in 2006 - 123 carries, 1039 yards.

[Brandon494]

In their most productive rushing seasons, Douglas' and Vicks' total rushing stats were similar, but in carries per game and rushing yards per game, Douglas comes out on top:

Douglas in 14 game schedule in 1972 - 141 carries, 968 yards.
Vick in a 16 game schedule in 2006 - 123 carries, 1039 yards.


Don't see how Douglas comes out on top when he averages 6.9 yards per carry compared to Vick's 8.4 yards per carry. Vick also has more than double the career rushing yards plus Douglass was a horrible passer with 36 TDs and 64 INTs for his career. Vick might not have been the first running QB but hes the best in NFL history for sure.

[Patler]

Don't see how Douglas comes out on top when he averages 6.9 yards per carry compared to Vick's 8.4 yards per carry. Vick also has more than double the career rushing yards plus Douglass was a horrible passer with 36 TDs and 64 INTs for his career. Vick might not have been the first running QB but hes the best in NFL history for sure.

I specifically referred to their biggest years. I even posted their stats from those years. In their biggest years, 1972 for Douglas and 2006 for Vick, Douglas averaged more carries per game and more yards per game than Vick did.

Vick claims to be the first QB who was a legitimate runner. As I said, some earlier ones were scramblers, QBs who could pick up yards when passing plays broke down. The first two that I remember who had running plays designed for them that were called regularly were Douglas and Landry. Douglas had nearly 1000 yards rushing in a 14 game schedule, and Greg Landry had consecutive seasons with over 500 yards rushing in 14 game seasons. While Douglas was not a particularly good passer, Landry was decent for his time.

Vick may be the best, I'm not about to dispute that. However, Vick clearly was not the first, which is what he claimed to be.

It's like a lot of things in the NFL. If you watch long enough, you will see there are new twists, but the fundamentals go in repeating cycles. Defenses went from 5 man lines, to 4 man lines, to 3 man lines, back to 5 and 4 man lines. In the last few years there have been growing numbers of 3 man lines, which will soon again favor four man lines.

We had running QBS like Tobin Rote back in the 1950's, another bunch in the '70s, with scramblers like tarkenton scattered through out the year. But Vick being the one who changed the game? In contemporary times, that goes to Randall Cunningham who had nearly 800 carries and 5,000 rushing yards while also having 30,000 passing yards in the late '80s and '90s. Cunningham had one year over 900 rushing yards, two over 600 yards and three over 500 yards. Vick has had two seasons with over 3,000 passing yards. Cunningham had five.

Again, Vick might be the best runner as a QB, but he certainly is not the first, especially when compared to Cunningham in relatively recent times.

[Joemailman]

If Michael Vick had revolutionized the game, the NFL would be loaded with starting QB's who are great runners but who usually have a passer rating in the 70's.

[Brandon494]

I don't think he ever said he was the first but that he revolutionized the game. I do believe started the changed in the game with all the spread offenses you see in today's college game.

Anyhow I still view Vick's season better because even though he played more games he averaged more yards per carry facing tougher defenses. It will be awhile until we see the fastest player on the field playing the QB position again if ever.

[Brandon494]

If Michael Vick had revolutionized the game, the NFL would be loaded with starting QB's who are great runners but who usually have a passer rating in the 70's.

It was enough to hand Green Bay their first ever home playoff lost...I think Kaep took notes from that game.

[Patler]

It will be awhile until we see the fastest player on the field playing the QB position again if ever.

We probably saw it happen before Michael Vick....with Randall Cunningham.
He was typically the fastest guy on the field, too.

[Joemailman]

There was a time I thought maybe Jared Lorenzen would revolutionize how the QB position was played.

https://sites.google.com/site/kingofrod/jlo.jpg

[mraynrand]

It was enough to hand Green Bay their first ever home playoff lost...I think Kaep took notes from that game.

You should know better than this. Vick wasn't the decisive factor in the playoff game. Packer injuries and mistakes were. At the same time, Vick was incredible in a close loss for the ATL in the season opener.

[pbmax]

We probably saw it happen before Michael Vick....with Randall Cunningham.
He was typically the fastest guy on the field, too.

Yes but he falls into the category of all the older players and also includes Steve Young. No one, after seeing them run, wanted a running QB in the modern NFL passing era. I don't think Cunningham was the fastest guy on the field, but he was faster than other QBs and players his size. He was big and played a little Rothliesberger ball while he was waiting to throw.

But mainly, no one copied the Philly offense and Cunningham approach. And the 49ers wanted Young to stop scrambling and sit in the pocket and go through his progressions.

I would say Vick was more an intermediary step than revolutionary. He was a more skilled passer than Cunningham, whose main talent aside from his legs was a huge arm. Reid wanted to adapt his offense to him and so did Chip Kelly until he was injured. And Dan Reeves developed a Vick friendly system, though it was highly controlled. Those were the first occasions in the modern era that an offense was fundamentally altered for a QB who wanted to run as much as pass.

And that is the legacy he could argue he passes on to CK, Newton and Wilson.

[Just Jeff]

"Back in the day" there were QBs who "scrambled" and racked up rushing yardage when pass plays broke down, but the first QBs I can remember for whom running was a frequent option were Greg Landry and Bobby Douglas. Landry was a decent passer, Douglas not so much, but Douglas rushed for just short of 1,000 yards in a 14 game schedule. In their most productive rushing seasons, Douglas' and Vicks' total rushing stats were similar, but in carries per game and rushing yards per game, Douglas comes out on top:

Douglas in 14 game schedule in 1972 - 141 carries, 968 yards.
Vick in a 16 game schedule in 2006 - 123 carries, 1039 yards.

In addition, you have to remember how incredibly terrible the Bears where back then. Douglas ran against 10 in the box many times. The last game in his 968 season, it was 11 men in the box. T'he whole stadium knew he was going for 1000 yard and he pretty much ran every play. The leading receiver had 14 catches for 380 yards that season. When Douglas wasn't gaining his 968 yard, the formidable Jim Harrison was racking up 622 yards for the season.
The Bears now are better than then, just not by much

[pbmax]

Douglas was definitely more of a runner than passer.

in 1972, 75c 198a 37.9% 1246yds

What was their offense in 1972? Single wing?

He seems to fall into the category that for a QB, he was an excellent runner. I think 100 out of 100 teams would take Vick, even at a 70 QB rating.

[RashanGary]

The rules, where the QB is protected far more than the past is making qbs who can move more valuable as their injury risk is going down. That has more to do with it than Vick. Also, I have been influenced by Patlers history lesson and would say, "Vick didn't revolutionize anything"

[Patler]

Yes but he falls into the category of all the older players and also includes Steve Young. No one, after seeing them run, wanted a running QB in the modern NFL passing era. I don't think Cunningham was the fastest guy on the field, but he was faster than other QBs and players his size. He was big and played a little Rothliesberger ball while he was waiting to throw.

But mainly, no one copied the Philly offense and Cunningham approach. And the 49ers wanted Young to stop scrambling and sit in the pocket and go through his progressions.

I would say Vick was more an intermediary step than revolutionary. He was a more skilled passer than Cunningham, whose main talent aside from his legs was a huge arm. Reid wanted to adapt his offense to him and so did Chip Kelly until he was injured. And Dan Reeves developed a Vick friendly system, though it was highly controlled. Those were the first occasions in the modern era that an offense was fundamentally altered for a QB who wanted to run as much as pass.

And that is the legacy he could argue he passes on to CK, Newton and Wilson.

Cunningham was very fast. Per an article I saw today, he claims to have run a 4.29 in the 40 once, and was actually timed at 4.4, which is impressive since QBs did not work out for running speed and quickness like they do today. In his prime Vick was certainly faster and quicker than Cunningham ever was, but Cunningham was pretty impressive for his time.

I don't agree that Vick was a more skilled passer. Going on memory yesterday, I would have said Cunningham was the better passer; but after looking at their career stats, they are remarkably similar in completion %, int. %, avg/comp., QB rating, etc. Even their best seasons stats for passing are quite similar.

Vick may have taken the concept of a running QB to a more productive level, but he was by no means the originator of the concept.

.

[Patler]

Douglas was definitely more of a runner than passer.

in 1972, 75c 198a 37.9% 1246yds

What was their offense in 1972? Single wing?

He seems to fall into the category that for a QB, he was an excellent runner. I think 100 out of 100 teams would take Vick, even at a 70 QB rating.

Certainly anyone would take Vick over Douglas. My point was simply that as a QB he had a season in which he ran more frequently than Vick and for more rushing yards per game than Vick, so the amount of running that Vick has done from the QB position has been seen before.

Don't be too condescending of poor Bobby. He is a former Packer!

[Guiness]

Cunningham was very fast. Per an article I saw today, he claims to have run a 4.29 in the 40 once, and was actually timed at 4.4, which is impressive since QBs did not work out for running speed and quickness like they do today. In his prime Vick was certainly faster and quicker than Cunningham ever was, but Cunningham was pretty impressive for his time.

I don't agree that Vick was a more skilled passer. Going on memory yesterday, I would have said Cunningham was the better passer; but after looking at their career stats, they are remarkably similar in completion %, int. %, avg/comp., QB rating, etc. Even their best seasons stats for passing are quite similar.

Vick may have taken the concept of a running QB to a more productive level, but he was by no means the originator of the concept.

.

I don't even know that I'd say Vick was more productive. Cunningham was very good in his prime, and the focus of that Eagles offense, and had 3 consecutive seasons around 3500 yards, good for top 10 in the late 80's. Add in his rushing yards, and he was a force.

I don't remember him as being fast, but thinking about it, he must've been of course. He had an amazing arm, I remember some cross field throws where he'd roll out one way, then throw across the field with accuracy and velocity.

What I remember most, and was most surprised by, was his big season in Minnesota, playing jump ball with Moss and Carter going over 1000 yards. I also remember he'd pretty much entirely stopped running the ball at that point, and was mostly a pocket passer! I doubt Vick will ever transition to that.

[Patler]

I don't even know that I'd say Vick was more productive. Cunningham was very good in his prime, and the focus of that Eagles offense, and had 3 consecutive seasons around 3500 yards, good for top 10 in the late 80's. Add in his rushing yards, and he was a force.

I don't remember him as being fast, but thinking about it, he must've been of course. He had an amazing arm, I remember some cross field throws where he'd roll out one way, then throw across the field with accuracy and velocity.

What I remember most, and was most surprised by, was his big season in Minnesota, playing jump ball with Moss and Carter going over 1000 yards. I also remember he'd pretty much entirely stopped running the ball at that point, and was mostly a pocket passer! I doubt Vick will ever transition to that.

Even going back only to Cunningham, the game was different then. Whereas their overall passing stats are somewhat similar, Cunningham had 5 seasons with stats that put him in the top 10 in most categories, and once lead the league in QB rating. Vick has not found his way to the top 10 except an isolated instance or two. The game has gotten easier for throwers, to the point that even Favre's records are not likely to last long even if Manning doesn't break them in the next couple seasons or three. (The TD record could be Mannings this season.)

[pbmax]

Cunningham was very fast. Per an article I saw today, he claims to have run a 4.29 in the 40 once, and was actually timed at 4.4, which is impressive since QBs did not work out for running speed and quickness like they do today. In his prime Vick was certainly faster and quicker than Cunningham ever was, but Cunningham was pretty impressive for his time.

I don't agree that Vick was a more skilled passer. Going on memory yesterday, I would have said Cunningham was the better passer; but after looking at their career stats, they are remarkably similar in completion %, int. %, avg/comp., QB rating, etc. Even their best seasons stats for passing are quite similar.

Vick may have taken the concept of a running QB to a more productive level, but he was by no means the originator of the concept.

.

Well a 4.4 would be impressive because I remember his size as much as his speed.

But I don't read the ESPN article as a comment about all of football history. I think he is talking about the present passer situation, although its not explicitly stated, that seems to be the context of the question he was asked.

And I do think, more than any modern running QB, he was the guy who coaches were willing to tailor their offense for. And that was new. The real argument is whether Vick represented a generational upgrade in skills, or if coaches had decided that a franchise QB was more important than a lesser skilled, but traditional, pocket passer.

Interestingly, Cunningham's greatest success came in a system devoted to deep passing in Minnesota.

[Patler]

Interestingly, Cunningham's greatest success came in a system devoted to deep passing in Minnesota.

... and as Guiness pointed out, at a time when he had assumed a more conventional QB playing style.

[Guiness]

Even going back only to Cunningham, the game was different then. Whereas their overall passing stats are somewhat similar, Cunningham had 5 seasons with stats that put him in the top 10 in most categories, and once lead the league in QB rating. Vick has not found his way to the top 10 except an isolated instance or two. The game has gotten easier for throwers, to the point that even Favre's records are not likely to last long even if Manning doesn't break them in the next couple seasons or three. (The TD record could be Mannings this season.)

Yup, that was my point - given the comparative state of the game at the time, I'd probably class Cunningham as more productive.

I commented in another thread on some of the passing numbers not that long ago, a link to some games from the 80s I think, there was an awful lot of sub-200 yard passing games as recently as that.

[Patler]

Yup, that was my point - given the comparative state of the game at the time, I'd probably class Cunningham as more productive.

I commented in another thread on some of the passing numbers not that long ago, a link to some games from the 80s I think, there was an awful lot of sub-200 yard passing games as recently as that.

Ya, I was agreeing with you without saying it. I am reverting back to my original thought yesterday without looking at the stats, that Cunningham was the better passer. I waffled this morning when I looked at their career stats, which are about the same. But I neglected to consider the different times in which they played. When you compare them within their own time, I think the nod goes to Cunningham as the better passer, for doing as well as Vick in a time period when it was more difficult to put up those kinds of numbers.

[Brandon494]

The rules, where the QB is protected far more than the past is making qbs who can move more valuable as their injury risk is going down. That has more to do with it than Vick. Also, I have been influenced by Patlers history lesson and would say, "Vick didn't revolutionize anything"

The rules only protect QBs who stay in the pocket, once they leave the pocket they are fair game.

[mraynrand]

Otto Graham wasn't a good runner, but he was an effective runner.

[Joemailman]

The year before Vick was drafted, both Daunte Culpepper and Donovan McNabb had about 700 rushing yards and 7 TD's as well as being among the NFL's top passers. So I don't get the idea that Vick was some sort of trend-setter. There's no way Vick would have been the #1 pick in the draft without those guys, as well as Cunningham paving the way. Those guys broke down the barriers, not Vick.

[mraynrand]

What barriers are you talking about. At one point there was a barrier for black QBs, but that really has nothing to do with 'barriers' to a running QB. I guess you could say traditional offensive schemes were a barrier, as coaches as times are reticent to try new things. But most important are skill sets and consequences. Very few QBs have the skill set to run well and pass accurately and then those that run too much get hurt more. The combination of those things kept and keep running-heavy QBs away from starting spots.

Someone (PBmax?) a while ago on these boards suggested that the game might change overall, and that a form of more temporary QB might come into popularity, where coaches dump fewer schemes on a young guy's head and ask him to run more and then expect him to last fewer years. If you see this trend in college ball more and more, it's probably inevitable in the NFL - especially if teams hope to contain salaries. But somehow I doubt this will be a widespread trend, because the combination of skills is just too rare - even if you start stressing it and coaching at the the Pop Warner level on up.

[Just Jeff]

This tread is racist.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/691/726/797
No examples of white QBs that can scramble. Tarkenton

[Brandon494]

The year before Vick was drafted, both Daunte Culpepper and Donovan McNabb had about 700 rushing yards and 7 TD's as well as being among the NFL's top passers. So I don't get the idea that Vick was some sort of trend-setter. There's no way Vick would have been the #1 pick in the draft without those guys, as well as Cunningham paving the way. Those guys broke down the barriers, not Vick.

Guess you didn't watch Vick in college.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/2000/0814_large.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHdPCF8mPZw

[mraynrand]

This tread is racist.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/691/726/797
No examples of white QBs that can scramble. Tarkenton

love me some KFC

[Guiness]

Guess you didn't watch Vick in college.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHdPCF8mPZw

Meh. Watched the first 4 highlights, all of him running.

[pbmax]

The year before Vick was drafted, both Daunte Culpepper and Donovan McNabb had about 700 rushing yards and 7 TD's as well as being among the NFL's top passers. So I don't get the idea that Vick was some sort of trend-setter. There's no way Vick would have been the #1 pick in the draft without those guys, as well as Cunningham paving the way. Those guys broke down the barriers, not Vick.

Both of those guys scrambled from within conventional O schemes. McNabb even sat for a brief time, as a rookie, to learn the west coast system.

It was thought, at the time, that a scheme would need to be developed to take advantage of Vick's unique skills. Reeves went part of the way there but the called runs were limited. Vick's part in this story is that he bridged two different philosophies among offensive coaches as well as his unique skills.

[pbmax]

This tread is racist.
[IMG]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/ima
No examples of white QBs that can scramble. Tarkenton

Scrambled yes. Ran for yardage, not so much. Tarkenton was 6 foot and under 200 lbs.

[Brandon494]

Meh. Watched the first 4 highlights, all of him running.

Highlights of Michael Vick running? Get out of town!!!

[Joemailman]

If Vick revolutionized the way the position is played, why is it that 13 years after he entered the NFL, there are really only 2 or 3 starting QB's (RGIII, Kaep, Newton), with that style of play?

[mraynrand]

If Vick revolutionized the way the position is played, why is it that 13 years after he entered the NFL, there are really only 2 or 3 starting QB's (RGIII, Kaep, Newton), with that style of play?

Even Trotsky got lonely on weekends without Lenin and Marx.

[Guiness]

Highlights of Michael Vick running? Get out of town!!!

Just found it interesting that a video posted to show what a great QB Vick is featured a string of running plays.

[pbmax]

If Vick revolutionized the way the position is played, why is it that 13 years after he entered the NFL, there are really only 2 or 3 starting QB's (RGIII, Kaep, Newton), with that style of play?

NFL still wants you to have a big-time, NFL arm. So they have adjusted their run and pass games some, but still want NFL throws. There aren't many in college who do that, even of there are many more great runners (Tebow, Young, Pryor).

[Brandon494]

If Vick revolutionized the way the position is played, why is it that 13 years after he entered the NFL, there are really only 2 or 3 starting QB's (RGIII, Kaep, Newton), with that style of play?

About to add Johnny Manziel to that list as well.

Good article on the subject listing all the great running QBs.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/21/vick-isnt-the-first-rushing-quarterback-but-he-is-the-best-for-now/

[Patler]

The rules only protect QBs who stay in the pocket, once they leave the pocket they are fair game.

...until he slides......

[Joemailman]

Jimmy Graham ruled a Tight End. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000363018/article/jimmy-graham-deemed-tight-end-in-system-arbitration

[Guiness]

Jimmy Graham ruled a Tight End. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000363018/article/jimmy-graham-deemed-tight-end-in-system-arbitration

Yup, and the arbitrator made some shit up to decide - i.e. he was lined up as a TE when he was within 4 yards of a lineman. lol, what? I think it's a bad idea to draw that line in the sand. Stating the criteria gets back to the idea that coaches might be told where they can line up their guys based on what future salary they might command.

[smuggler]

Was that arbitration ironclad and binding?

I'd expect Graham's people to appeal that decision if they are able to.

[Joemailman]

Was that arbitration ironclad and binding?

I'd expect Graham's people to appeal that decision if they are able to.


The Collective Bargaining Agreement allows Graham to appeal the decision to a three-member Appeals Panel within 10 days of the decision. The NFLPA announced in a statement they will "carefully determine next steps in this matter.".

[pbmax]

The arbitrator also cited his Twitter profile. Once again proving that everything you do and write down will evetually go on your permanent record.

[Patler]

I don't know how to define a tight end, but I know it when I see one. Graham is a tight end.

[bobblehead]

Jimmy Graham ruled a Tight End. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000363018/article/jimmy-graham-deemed-tight-end-in-system-arbitration

I run block a little better than Jimmy Graham. I am declaring myself an offensive tackle.

[bobblehead]

I don't know how to define a tight end, but I know it when I see one. Graham is a tight end.

You are defining him based on his size. He is NOT a TE. He doesn't block. He doesn't try to block. They don't ask him to block. He is a WR who is a matchup nightmare. Too fast to cover with LB, too big to cover with DB.

Edit: He also was rarely on the field in running situations.

[Patler]

I don't know how to define a tight end, but I know it when I see one. Graham is a tight end.You are defining him based on his size. He is NOT a TE. He doesn't block. He doesn't try to block. They don't ask him to block. He is a WR who is a matchup nightmare. Too fast to cover with LB, too big to cover with DB.

Edit: He also was rarely on the field in running situations.




No, I was lampooning Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's often-quoted description of pornography:


I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

Concurring, Jacobellis v. Ohio, 378 U.S. 184 (1964).

[Joemailman]

This ruling could end up helping the other top TE's in the NFL. Graham will likely sign a contract extension large enough to raise the franchise tag dollar amount for TE's.

I actually don't know that Graham is being hurt here unfairly. Last year he was 15th in the NFL in receiving yards. The franchise tag number for a TE is comparable to what the 15th rated wide receiver gets. Of course, Graham scores lots of TD's which also needs to be factored in. But I think it will be. Whether he signs an extension with New Orleans this year or becomes a FA next year, he will probably end up with a contract averaging 10 mil per year which is about where he should be based on production.

[KYPack]

You are defining him based on his size. He is NOT a TE. He doesn't block. He doesn't try to block. They don't ask him to block. He is a WR who is a matchup nightmare. Too fast to cover with LB, too big to cover with DB.

Edit: He also was rarely on the field in running situations.

Graham is the prototype Joker.

The good blocking, pass catcher guy we all grew up with is a generational spot.

It's like the Jim Taylor FB, a victim of the evolution of the NFL to a pass oriented league.

Jason Witten, Heath Miller guys are the last of their kind.

[bobblehead]

No, I was lampooning Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's often-quoted description of pornography:

Well played mauer....I should have caught that one, but I am annoyed by the fact that everyone seems to think he is built like a TE therefore he is a TE.

[bobblehead]

Graham is the prototype Joker.

The good blocking, pass catcher guy we all grew up with is a generational spot.

It's like the Jim Taylor FB, a victim of the evolution of the NFL to a pass oriented league.

Jason Witten, Heath Miller guys are the last of their kind.

I don't disagree. I think the position of TE is kinda gone in the NFL. Very few guys can block and catch. I would stop pretending to use TE's and simply run 4 wide, and then use U-71 when I want to mash.

[Guiness]

Graham is the prototype Joker.

The good blocking, pass catcher guy we all grew up with is a generational spot.

It's like the Jim Taylor FB, a victim of the evolution of the NFL to a pass oriented league.

Jason Witten, Heath Miller guys are the last of their kind.

I guess you're right, and it's too bad, really. Witten in particular has always been one of my favorite guys to watch, loved seeing him release off a block, move 5 yards down field, catch a pass and find a seam for 10 more. And 10 years in the NFL, they still haven't found a pair of pants that fit him properly! In that mold was Bubba Franks, even if he (obviously) wasn't as good.

[Guiness]

This ruling could end up helping the other top TE's in the NFL. Graham will likely sign a contract extension large enough to raise the franchise tag dollar amount for TE's.

I actually don't know that Graham is being hurt here unfairly. Last year he was 15th in the NFL in receiving yards. The franchise tag number for a TE is comparable to what the 15th rated wide receiver gets. Of course, Graham scores lots of TD's which also needs to be factored in. But I think it will be. Whether he signs an extension with New Orleans this year or becomes a FA next year, he will probably end up with a contract averaging 10 mil per year which is about where he should be based on production.

Will he get that long term extension though? I can see NO making him play under the tag for a year, or even 2. Especially considering it's the lower of the 2 tags, the non-exclusive one. I think the only way he gets his money is if now that other teams see that he'll get paid as a TE, someone is willing to give up those 2 first rounders, moves in and makes an offer.

[smuggler]

I dont know that hes good enough for 2 first round picks and a mega contract

[Guiness]

I dont know that hes good enough for 2 first round picks and a mega contract

While he's not the most valuable player, he's elite at his position, in his prime, and most importantly, available, which is quite an oddity in this league. Generally see maybe 1 or 2 guys per season in that position.

[pbmax]

Seriously, you kids are taking photos in the bathroom?


https://coedbc.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/manziel-money-restroom.png

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/07/manziels-latest-vegas-trip-creates-an-interesting-photo/

[Zool]

He's like a kid out there!

[Patler]

That photo is SO misleading!

There was a tiny kitten just out of view of the camera. It was struggling to breath. Manziel saw it and didn't hesitate. He immediately took out a bill, rolled it into a tiny tube and performed an emergency intubation, saving the kitten's life.

People are just so suspicious...............

[pbmax]

Maybe his drink straw was broken?

[Guiness]

Seriously, you kids are taking photos in the bathroom?




No shortage of speculation over at PFT on why he's rolling up a bill, or more accurately, what reason other than nose candy could it be?

Funniest comment I saw: He obviously is making an antenna for his money phone.
One to make you think:

Has a 1st round draft pick ever been released before their first training camp?

I would stop paying this kid right now.

I believe the most recent answer to that question is Dimitrius Underwood.

[Brandon494]

Trust me no one sniffs cocaine in the open like that in bathroom night clubs anymore...mainly because most of them now have bathroom guys especially in Vegas.

Anyway if he was sniffing something I'm willing to bet it wasn't cocaine and was instead prescription pills like adderall.

[Freak Out]

North Dallas Forty Baby!

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's just origami. He's clearly making a giraffe with a real long neck.

[KYPack]

I guess you're right, and it's too bad, really. Witten in particular has always been one of my favorite guys to watch, loved seeing him release off a block, move 5 yards down field, catch a pass and find a seam for 10 more. And 10 years in the NFL, they still haven't found a pair of pants that fit him properly! In that mold was Bubba Franks, even if he (obviously) wasn't as good.

I miss that 'ol style ball, too.

I've often wondered if you could get a 2 way, in-line style TE, a pair of live RB's and run an old school offense vs some of these current D's.

Some of the younger teams have never seen or played against those kind of offenses.

Run a little 31 power BOB on their asses and see what they do about it.

[bobblehead]

I miss that 'ol style ball, too.

I've often wondered if you could get a 2 way, in-line style TE, a pair of live RB's and run an old school offense vs some of these current D's.

Some of the younger teams have never seen or played against those kind of offenses.

Run a little 31 power BOB on their asses and see what they do about it.

When the Eagles put together the "dream team" and sacked the Rams QB like 4 times in the first quarter a couple years ago, the Rams did it and rushed for 170 yards the rest of the half. Then in a move only Bielema could appreciate decided to pass the ball the entire 3rd quarter.

[Joemailman]

When the Eagles put together the "dream team" and sacked the Rams QB like 4 times in the first quarter a couple years ago, the Rams did it and rushed for 170 yards the rest of the half. Then in a move only Bielema could appreciate decided to pass the ball the entire 3rd quarter.

Are you talking about opening day in 2011? The Rams had 154 rushing yards the entire game. They had 2 3rd quarter possessions and ran the ball 9 times in those possessions, although not very effectively. Perhaps because the Eagles made some defensive adjustments to counter the success the Rams had rushing the ball in the 1st half?

[KYPack]

Go two rb's, TE, two WR's. Bring teams out of the nickel and dime and play 4DB's with a S in the box. When the safety comes in, pass their asses off the field.

With ARod, our passing game keep the clock spinning like a solid running game does. Keep the pressure on the D and give our defense a blow, so they can come in and really bring some old fashion heat.

This is no revelation, I've always felt that is Coach Mac's goal all along. That's why he keeps an FB and maintains a tight end herd. He'd like an offense that controls our own destiny and can put ball games away, while taking pressure off our D.

I think.

I hope.

[bobblehead]

Are you talking about opening day in 2011? The Rams had 154 rushing yards the entire game. They had 2 3rd quarter possessions and ran the ball 9 times in those possessions, although not very effectively. Perhaps because the Eagles made some defensive adjustments to counter the success the Rams had rushing the ball in the 1st half?

Don't recall the exact game, I watched it though...the dream team was 2011? Was thinking it was 2012, but your probably right. My memory for exact details is getting fuzzy these days, but the Badger game I was referring to was against Boise St. in the bowl game where we had about a 5000 pound advantage up front and kept running to the side and passing the ball. The final drive we rammed it down their throats to make it a 2 point game, then passed incomplete for the 2 point conversion after driving it down their throats the entire drive.

[bobblehead]

Go two rb's, TE, two WR's. Bring teams out of the nickel and dime and play 4DB's with a S in the box. When the safety comes in, pass their asses off the field.

With ARod, our passing game keep the clock spinning like a solid running game does. Keep the pressure on the D and give our defense a blow, so they can come in and really bring some old fashion heat.

This is no revelation, I've always felt that is Coach Mac's goal all along. That's why he keeps an FB and maintains a tight end herd. He'd like an offense that controls our own destiny and can put ball games away, while taking pressure off our D.

I think.

I hope.

And I like the other approach. Spread 5 wide (2 of them TE's) and then drop Cobb into the backfield for the handoff and run it on the dime defense.

[pbmax]

Go two rb's, TE, two WR's. Bring teams out of the nickel and dime and play 4DB's with a S in the box. When the safety comes in, pass their asses off the field.

With ARod, our passing game keep the clock spinning like a solid running game does. Keep the pressure on the D and give our defense a blow, so they can come in and really bring some old fashion heat.

This is no revelation, I've always felt that is Coach Mac's goal all along. That's why he keeps an FB and maintains a tight end herd. He'd like an offense that controls our own destiny and can put ball games away, while taking pressure off our D.

I think.

I hope.

I dunno if you'll see him in 2 backs as much as you would like, but he has wanted to do two TEs for quite a while now.

[pbmax]

Steve Tisch says Johnny Manziel doesn’t fit the profile of a Giant (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/08/steve-tisch-says-johnny-manziel-doesnt-fit-the-profile-of-a-giant/)

C'mon Steve, sure he does!


http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr83/brickmaster1234/lookin%20asss%20nigga/eli-manning-drunk.jpg


http://guestofaguest.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/eli.jpg

[Just Jeff]

Here's that pussy on draft day after being taken #1. AIDS is too good for him.
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e8b42f0983a3dcf64de88fd5f123b121a48262cc/c=42-0-758-537&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/Westchester/2013/12/07/tjn1208giantsadv.jpg

[Fritz]

To me, the word for Manziel is "punk."

[Joemailman]

Better than hanging out with Bieber. There might be hope for him yet.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsJZ_SQIgAEkXht.jpg:large

[pbmax]

To me, the word for Manziel is "punk."

You are officially old. At least you didn't say thug.

[woodbuck27]

Better than hanging out with Bieber. There might be hope for him yet.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsJZ_SQIgAEkXht.jpg:large

He always appears bright eyed and bushy tailed.

Does he ever sleep?

[MadScientist]

He always appears bright eyed and bushy tailed.

Does he ever sleep?

Bushy tailed? What makes you say that? They look like they'd be neatly trimmed tail, if not shaved.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 47m
From Sunday night, the Browns' new mascot will be a live bulldog named "Swagger" http://wp.me/p14QSB-9w6G

There is always a fine line between clever and stupid. This isn't even close.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2h
Colts launch virtually impossible $500,000 game day weather challenge http://wp.me/p14QSB-9w70

Ceyzar ‏@ArB591 1h
@ProFootballTalk does the winner get the money delivered to them in a laundry bag?


Well done. Well done.

[BZnDallas]

Bushy tailed? What makes you say that? They look like they'd be neatly trimmed tail, if not shaved.

HAHA!

Sleep? Not when that caine is involved! My school'n taught me that.

[pbmax]

My genuine feeling is that about two more stories covering how it is or is not going to happen will land me in the Patler zone. Not for the same reason, that enough attention and adulation and cash has been paid to (former) players already, but because I will no longer care to indulge in the nostalgia.

I don't actually think the fans reactions, even to the extent they can be predicted, play much a part in this. This is one side dithering upon what will be an endless list of concerns.

[pbmax]

Best analysis so far today:


1. Replacing last year's head coach [Schiano, earlier compared to Custer], a rabid ferret who found a whistle in a pile of garbage at a landfill, with Love 'n' Jeff, besties who rekindled their love for football during a magical 2013 retreat in Lovie Smith's basement. Lovie and Tedford's defensive and offensive schemes harken back to the turn of the millennium, but outdated strategies are better than tactics built upon the bedrock of loathing and resenting your own players.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/84497886/tampa-bay-buccaneers-many-changes-lovie-smith-josh-mccown-jeff-tedford#!beP5Ba

[Guiness]

Bushy tailed? What makes you say that? They look like they'd be neatly trimmed tail, if not shaved.

Reminds me of a 'That 70's show' episode, when Hyde says he's going to write "I hate the fuzz" on his butt while streaking, and Fez asks him if he hates the fuzz on his butt, why doesn't he just shave it off? :huh:

[Joemailman]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/15/new-orleans-saints-jimmy-graham-contract

Jimmy Graham: 4 years, 40 million, 12 million signing bonus, 21 million guaranteed.

[Just Jeff]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/15/new-orleans-saints-jimmy-graham-contract

Jimmy Graham: 4 years, 40 million, 12 million signing bonus, 21 million guaranteed.

I understand the love of the game and the lifetime earnings thing, but if the best TE in the NFL gets "only" $10 million per year, how in the good Lord's name will Finley get anywhere near that. And yet if he retires, he gets that AND ITS TAX FREE, so like $14 million to stay home and not live your years in a wheel chair.

[smuggler]

The Saints have no cap room. Ever again.

[Guiness]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/15/new-orleans-saints-jimmy-graham-contract

Jimmy Graham: 4 years, 40 million, 12 million signing bonus, 21 million guaranteed.

They're calling it a 2yr, $21M deal. 12M SB + 1M first year salary, 8M second year salary guaranteed for injury only. So they could cut him after the first year, but that would leave them paying 13M for a year's service from a TE. I wonder how the 3rd and 4th years are structured, he might have the option to hit the open market again at 29yrs old.

[pbmax]

How did I miss this?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/16/bizarre-courtroom-scenes-lead-to-greg-hardy-conviction/

We should have this trial as a thread alongside the World Cup to get us through June.

Spectacular testimony that should be the basis of a new blockbuster comedy starring Mark Wahlberg and Kevin Hart.


Prosecutor Jamie Adams: “You had alcohol.”

Hardy: “Champagne.”

Adams: “Is champagne alcohol?”

Hardy: “You tell me.”

Adams: “OK we’ll move on.”

[hoosier]

Hardy has a second career as attorney or testimony consultant waiting for him when he retires.

[Fritz]

I feel like Manziel will be as good as Timmy Tebone.

[MadScientist]

I feel like Manziel will be as good as Timmy Tebone.

He's the anti Timmy - plenty of NFL-ready talent, but wasted on the party life and being full of himself. Matt Leinart would be the closest example.

[Fritz]

I just don't think he's really all that talented. To me, he's kinda like Doug Flutie or Teboner - a very good college quarterback whose skills will not translate well to the NFL.

I did not mean in terms of personality. I meant someone with lots and lots of press who really isn't that great.

[MadScientist]

I just don't think he's really all that talented. To me, he's kinda like Doug Flutie or Teboner - a very good college quarterback whose skills will not translate well to the NFL.

I did not mean in terms of personality. I meant someone with lots and lots of press who really isn't that great.

I guess I see him more of the 'million dollar arm, five cent head' type. Tebone was just as you described, with most scouts thinking he was not going to be a good pro. Manziel's problem is between his ears, which is what the Pat's leaked scouting report indicates. Ryan Leaf might be a better comparison, talent, bad attitude, drugs, done.

[Guiness]

I'll take exception to the mention of Flutie in relation. Other than his pro debut in the USFL, he was successful. TD-INT was 86-68 at the NFL level. He wasn't a super star, but wasn't a bust either, and I think would have done ok if given a reasonable opportunity, but between crossing the picket line in '87 and that he played in the league when they barely looked at guys who were not 6'2" pocket passers. He spent his prime in the CFL, but I think he would have done well in the NFL during those years.

[Rastak]

How did I miss this?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/16/bizarre-courtroom-scenes-lead-to-greg-hardy-conviction/

We should have this trial as a thread alongside the World Cup to get us through June.

Spectacular testimony that should be the basis of a new blockbuster comedy starring Mark Wahlberg and Kevin Hart.


That was awesomely funny.


You tell me.....


Idiot....

LOL....

[pbmax]

I guess I see him more of the 'million dollar arm, five cent head' type. Tebone was just as you described, with most scouts thinking he was not going to be a good pro. Manziel's problem is between his ears, which is what the Pat's leaked scouting report indicates. Ryan Leaf might be a better comparison, talent, bad attitude, drugs, done.

Leaf is an interesting comparison, though Manziel did not just breakout his last year in college. If he had Leaf's body, he would have gone much earlier.

I think he could make it. I fear he might run himself out of the League. I hope he doesn't.

[wist43]

I understand the love of the game and the lifetime earnings thing, but if the best TE in the NFL gets "only" $10 million per year, how in the good Lord's name will Finley get anywhere near that. And yet if he retires, he gets that AND ITS TAX FREE, so like $14 million to stay home and not live your years in a wheel chair.

I'm with ya... if I'm Finley I walk away and call it a career. Take up golf.

[pbmax]

Thought experiment:

Eli Manning is not the prototypical ideal for a pocket QB. He throws too many interceptions and can be very inaccurate at times.

He is getting a new offense where accuracy could be at a premium (McAdoo and some form of the West Coast offense).

If they struggle, who gets the blame? Eli has at times been very unpopular in New York, but McAdoo is the unproven commodity.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/22/eli-manning-admits-hes-a-little-nervous-in-giants-new-offense/

[denverYooper]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 2m
Seahawks WR Sidney Rice has retired from NFL, the team announced today.

[Joemailman]

More Rice News:

Ray Rice is suspended the first 2 games of 2014 for his domestic abuse incident. http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/24/baltimore-ravens-ray-rice-suspended-first-two-games-season-domestic-assault

[pbmax]

More Rice News:

Ray Rice is suspended the first 2 games of 2014 for his domestic abuse incident. http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/24/baltimore-ravens-ray-rice-suspended-first-two-games-season-domestic-assault

Its good that punching a women is less heinous that getting caught with marijuana a second time.

[Joemailman]

In the "Turn out the lights, the party's over" category, Jax WR Justin Blackmon, who is suspended indefinitely, was arrested for marijuana possession. http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/07/24/jacksonville-jaguars-justin-blackmon-arrested

[Zool]

Can you be more stupid than Blackmon? Would Tank beat him out in a common sense-a-thon?

[Joemailman]

Can you be more stupid than Blackmon? Would Tank beat him out in a common sense-a-thon?

The only person in that organization dumber than he's been is the guy who decided to use the 5th overall pick of the draft on him. He came into the draft loaded down with red flags, and has justified them all.

I believe they have someone else running the organization now.

[Fritz]

I'm with ya... if I'm Finley I walk away and call it a career. Take up golf.

But golf is tough on the back. Better to take up whist.

[Guiness]

from PFT


Three games for words.
Two games for hitting a woman!
Full year for pot.

The NFL is upside down.
(Priefer got 3 games for homophobic comments)