Mike Ditka doesn't back former Bears players in lawsuit vs. NFL

[woodbuck27]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24573070/mike-ditka-doesnt-back-former-bears-players-in-lawsuit-vs-nfl

Mike Ditka doesn't back former Bears players in lawsuit vs. NFL

By: John Breech | CBSSports.com ..... May 26, 2014 5:17 pm ET


" Ditka's main issue with the laswuit seems to be: No one forced any of the players to do anything they didn't want to do.

"If you don't want to take them, don't take them," Ditka said of painkillers. "I don't think anybody ever forces anyone to do anything. If you don't want to take it, don't take it. If you wanted it, they were available. There's no question about that. Is that right? I don't know." ..." Fr. LINK

[NewsBruin]

I don't know, I just see some things differently than the "suck it up" mentality. There was a time where someone had the mantle of authority and responsibility, and you assumed that his recommendations were in your best interest and the institution's best interest, and whatever came of it, it might not be perfect, but there were no guarantees of a perfect life. It probably got us through two world wars, Korea, and Vietnam.

But I see it, and I'm kinda maybe over-entitled, that with authority comes responsibility, and that I should be given information on the known consequences of the decision I make. I especially believe this with physicians, whose ultimate responsibility is the most beneficial outcome to the patient, based on the patient's wishes and informed consent.

I'm just surprised with this and the concussion/CTE lawsuit, that there's so much blame cast on the players that they "should have known" they would get permanent consequences of playing concussed or taking frequent analgesics/anti-inflamatories in the absence of anyone with clinical knowledge explaining it to them. Heck, I consider myself more familiar with a bunch of medical topics, and I only find out when these lawsuit stories break.

In any clinical setting, pain is a big deal, and its treatment is a huge component of documentation. Most people will do anything to relieve it, especially witth the beating players take in the NFL. If someone asked me, "Do you want to not be in pain every time you move without feeling doped-up?" and by extension, "Do you want to keep the job you love?" I'd probably ask where the back of the line was. I wouldn't think that someone would know I'd be at a greater risk of liver damage and internal bleeding and not tell me. For that reason, I think the players have a valid complaint if that's how they were treated.

[Guiness]

Well put NB. I think the only real defense the NFL would have is that in some cases they didn't know any better either. We've talked about it before, concussions were just called getting your bell wrung. Wasn't until I got to university in 90's that I started hearing about people being told to stop playing because they'd had too many, and that was usually rugby players who tended to get knocked out cold. I can't remember when I started hearing about long term damage from pain killers, but it seems to me it was around then or later. Anti-inflammatory drugs are a different story, that was known a long time ago, mostly because of the way baseball pitcher's arms fell apart.

The emphasis was always on playing hurt and toughing it out. I landed myself in the hospital, for a couple of weeks, in a life threatening situation because of Tylenol 3s. Turned out the headaches weren't from 2 a days in the sun, I have friggen meningitis! The pills kept the pain at bay. Some alert, quick thinking roomates saved my ass.

[pbmax]

I am sure Ditka would have been understanding if a player on the Bears decided not to take painkillers and could not play in the game. I doubt he ever held someone's job over their head. After all, it should be their choice.

[woodbuck27]

I don't know, I just see some things differently than the "suck it up" mentality. There was a time where someone had the mantle of authority and responsibility, and you assumed that his recommendations were in your best interest and the institution's best interest, and whatever came of it, it might not be perfect, but there were no guarantees of a perfect life. It probably got us through two world wars, Korea, and Vietnam.

But I see it, and I'm kinda maybe over-entitled, that with authority comes responsibility, and that I should be given information on the known consequences of the decision I make. I especially believe this with physicians, whose ultimate responsibility is the most beneficial outcome to the patient, based on the patient's wishes and informed consent.

I'm just surprised with this and the concussion/CTE lawsuit, that there's so much blame cast on the players that they "should have known" they would get permanent consequences of playing concussed or taking frequent analgesics/anti-inflamatories in the absence of anyone with clinical knowledge explaining it to them. Heck, I consider myself more familiar with a bunch of medical topics, and I only find out when these lawsuit stories break.

In any clinical setting, pain is a big deal, and its treatment is a huge component of documentation. Most people will do anything to relieve it, especially witth the beating players take in the NFL. If someone asked me, "Do you want to not be in pain every time you move without feeling doped-up?" and by extension, "Do you want to keep the job you love?" I'd probably ask where the back of the line was. I wouldn't think that someone would know I'd be at a greater risk of liver damage and internal bleeding and not tell me. For that reason, I think the players have a valid complaint if that's how they were treated.

Some excellent insight into this very important issue that former NFL players are now taking the NFL to task with.

Repped.

[pbmax]

If I were the players, the #1 issue I would have, beyond even Roger being his own judge, jury and executioner, is the medical situation on teams. Its a HUGE conflict of interest.

And I think the rare exception to it (probably not the only one) are the Packers where the Doc seems to be the one to make the call and still be consistently conservative with his timetables.

[Teamcheez1]

92 million painkiller prescriptions were written by primary care physicians in 2013
30 million of those were written by non-doctors.

Americans take 80 percent of all prescription painkillers issued in the world
One person dies every 19 minutes from a prescription drug overdose.

NFL players or otherwise need to be aware of the risks of taking any medication. I'm not in support of the lawsuit, but we have turned into a nation of pill poppers.

[woodbuck27]

Well put NB. I think the only real defense the NFL would have is that in some cases they didn't know any better either. We've talked about it before, concussions were just called getting your bell wrung. Wasn't until I got to university in 90's that I started hearing about people being told to stop playing because they'd had too many, and that was usually rugby players who tended to get knocked out cold. I can't remember when I started hearing about long term damage from pain killers, but it seems to me it was around then or later. Anti-inflammatory drugs are a different story, that was known a long time ago, mostly because of the way baseball pitcher's arms fell apart.

The emphasis was always on playing hurt and toughing it out. I landed myself in the hospital, for a couple of weeks, in a life threatening situation because of Tylenol 3s. Turned out the headaches weren't from 2 a days in the sun, I have friggen meningitis! The pills kept the pain at bay. Some alert, quick thinking roomates saved my ass.

Wow Guiness....that's alarming news. Most of us do it. Take a pill for this or that. We seek immediate relief and mask the symptom (s). I'm typing this message right now and aware of the 7 inch wide elastic spine support around my lower back/abdomen. Spring clean-up and general yard work has caught up with my body and I'm extremely muscled. Thankfully the heavy work is about done. So is my supply of Tylenol and muscle relaxants.

Thank goodness most of us here aren't female. Well.... many middle to older aged men need one. Evidently 85% of woman aren't wearing the right size bra. ALARMING !

On topic:

As it's now clearly being recognized in over the top too many sociological aspects of improper to outright total misuse of POWER.

The subject of ABUSE is wide ranging and a continual education for all of us as we decide to or NOT pay attention to it. IMO it's the duty of all of us to educate and inform one another and ensure a concentrated effort to fight against it's extreme destructiveness. ABUSE must be viewed as intolerable/unacceptable.

ABUSE: It's UGLY !

It's extremely damaging psychologically and if we ignore it we are guilty of it.

I hate the MONSTER head of abuse and always have fought hard to reveal it >>>eradicate it.

Most of us were once so ignorant. Our former ignorance can no longer be used as an excuse with the wide spread use of the internet and availability of the social media. It's the duty of us all to make our society one of improved "Peace and Harmony" and speak out against any form of abuse. Abuse is too obvious. Not at all difficult to recognize.

We see it here at Packerrats. I "Red Flag" it whenever it gets personal and my membership here.

This is the internet. I can't slap it in the face. I must deal with it otherwise.

I do ! :-)

[mraynrand]

The subject of ABUSE is wide ranging and a continual education for all of us as we decide to or NOT pay attention to it. IMO it's the duty of all of us to educate and inform one another and ensure a concentrated effort to fight against it's extreme destructiveness.

I've been warning people about you for years! :)

[woodbuck27]

I've been warning people about you for years! :)

unfortunately......mraynrand "true color":

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/51/84/96/518496149127ff18fb7d7af96250014f.jpg

That's NOT Packer Green. That's 'just' green.

A terrible affliction.

[woodbuck27]

http://cdn3.independent.ie/business/irish/article29900229.ece/e9644/ALTERNATES/h342/FIN_2014-01-09_BUS_005_30053865_I1.JPG

mraynrand: Protect your job.

[mraynrand]

^^^ I have a tie just like that

[mraynrand]

unfortunately......mraynrand "true color":

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/51/84/96/518496149127ff18fb7d7af96250014f.jpg

Stanford Tree? Awesome.

[NewsBruin]

Thanks for praising me stating obvious stuff while trying to appreciate the both sides of the plaintiffs versus Ditka.

The only other (obvious and already noted) thing I'd like to say is that it seems inappropriate to name the NFL and not the teams and their medical staff (unless that's been done). The league is the one with the deep pockets, but it should be able to deflect medical policy (or lack thereof) to the clubs when this hits the courts. I think the NFL's only concern would be the discovery phase.

I work in clinical settings a lot, and there's pretty strict controls on meds and their distribution. It's believable but crazy that a trainer without any medical credentials would be responsible for passing out painkillers.

[pbmax]

Thanks for praising me stating obvious stuff while trying to appreciate the both sides of the plaintiffs versus Ditka.

The only other (obvious and already noted) thing I'd like to say is that it seems inappropriate to name the NFL and not the teams and their medical staff (unless that's been done). The league is the one with the deep pockets, but it should be able to deflect medical policy (or lack thereof) to the clubs when this hits the courts. I think the NFL's only concern would be the discovery phase.

I work in clinical settings a lot, and there's pretty strict controls on meds and their distribution. It's believable but crazy that a trainer without any medical credentials would be responsible for passing out painkillers.

The NFL doesn't have pockets. But they have revenues.

More importantly, they set policy. if you don't name both, one side blames the other.

[Just Jeff]

I am sure Ditka would have been understanding if a player on the Bears decided not to take painkillers and could not play in the game. I doubt he ever held someone's job over their head. After all, it should be their choice.

It should be remembered that Ditka sided with the owners and scab players during the strike season, abandoning the real players. It was the beginning of the end for Da Coach.

[pbmax]

It should be remembered that Ditka sided with the owners and scab players during the strike season, abandoning the real players. It was the beginning of the end for Da Coach.

Despite the SuperFans sketch, even Chicagoans eventually figured out that Ditka was mainly looking out for Ditka.

[mraynrand]

Despite the SuperFans sketch, even Chicagoans eventually figured out that Ditka was mainly looking out for Ditka.

And the players were only interested in the welfare of the fans.

[pbmax]

And the players were only interested in the welfare of the fans.

Of course. That's why Jermichael has so many internet children. He is so giving of himself.

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for praising me stating obvious stuff while trying to appreciate the both sides of the plaintiffs versus Ditka.

The only other (obvious and already noted) thing I'd like to say is that it seems inappropriate to name the NFL and not the teams and their medical staff (unless that's been done). The league is the one with the deep pockets, but it should be able to deflect medical policy (or lack thereof) to the clubs when this hits the courts. I think the NFL's only concern would be the discovery phase.

I work in clinical settings a lot, and there's pretty strict controls on meds and their distribution. It's believable but crazy that a trainer without any medical credentials would be responsible for passing out painkillers.

You nailed it right there.

Although my sweet lady ensures I get my Tylenol.

[woodbuck27]

Stanford Tree? Awesome.

Awesome response.

There may be hope for you. :idea:

[mraynrand]

Of course. That's why Jermichael has so many internet children. He is so giving of himself.

That's what the Muskie Queen said.

[Joemailman]

That's what the Muskie Queen said.

Did someone say Muskie Queen? Actually, she's the Musky Queen.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/route25/muskyqueen.jpg (http://s1206.photobucket.com/user/route25/media/muskyqueen.jpg.html)

[mraynrand]

Easie mistake to make...

http://jfkplusfifty.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/humbert_humphrey_1968_0901_edmund_m.jpg

[Cheesehead Craig]

Ditka vs the rest of the NFL. Who wins?

mmmmm.... Ditka!

http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image/public/superfans.png

[mraynrand]

Ditka vs the rest of the NFL. Who wins?

mmmmm.... Ditka!

http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image/public/superfans.png

Whad aboud mini-Didka versis the hole NFL?

Now dat is a tuff one...

[woodbuck27]

Ditka vs the rest of the NFL. Who wins?

mmmmm.... Ditka!

http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image/public/superfans.png

Cholesterol feast with a side order of Metamucil; and no room for forks and knives.

[Fritz]

Easie mistake to make...

http://jfkplusfifty.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/humbert_humphrey_1968_0901_edmund_m.jpg



No wonder they lost in '68; just look at those two.

[wist43]

Ditka can barely walk, and has had how many knee operations??

I understand "old school", and you are responsible for your own body and actions - BUT - there is pressure to stay on the field, and if pain is preventing a guy from staying on the field, he will do what he needs to to keep up.

As someone who lives in pain every day, I can assure anyone who does not live in pain, that it grinds you down and takes a toll on you psychologically. It gets to the point where you are hesitant to do even simple, easy looking things b/c, even if you aren't thinking about it, subconsciously you know the pain is always there.

I read a story saying the league is considering easing up on their nazi-like moratorium on marijuana - long since overdue. It is an excellent pain killer, and a much better alternative to all the pills.

[MadtownPacker]

That's right Wist, light that shit you shiny diamond.

I wonder if I can sue the farms I worked on when I was a teen. I knew the job required that I be outside in the sun but they never had a shade covering me at all times as I worked my way down the rows. That would have greatly reduced my exposure to UV rays. Now I may get cancer because of all that sun. I mean who would have thought getting burned to a crisp would be bad for me. I don't think the 4.25 an hour was worth it now.

You guys think I have a case?

[Fritz]

Call a 1-800 lawyer once you've gotten the skin cancer, and you'll be swimming in cash on your deathbed.

[mraynrand]

Call a 1-800 lawyer once you've gotten the skin cancer, and you'll be swimming in cash on your deathbed.

you could give the cash to Scott Wells

[Noodle]

I wonder if I can sue the farms I worked on when I was a teen. I knew the job required that I be outside in the sun but they never had a shade covering me at all times as I worked my way down the rows. That would have greatly reduced my exposure to UV rays. Now I may get cancer because of all that sun. I mean who would have thought getting burned to a crisp would be bad for me. I don't think the 4.25 an hour was worth it now.

My Latino Brother, I too worked the fields for six years, and my lily white skin provided no protection from UV rays. But I'm pretty damn sure my boss didn't no dick about UV exposure risk, as he was out there too with his lily white skin frying like mine. And that's the point. The players were given ready access to medications that should have been under the careful monitoring of a dude who knew dick about medications. NFL teams are akin to medical clinics, and they have a responsibility to ensure that the docs they employ are following best practices. If anything, given the pressures they are under and their work ethic, the teams needed to protect the players from themselves.

But damn, brother, you made 4.25? I was happy with 3.80.

[woodbuck27]

My Latino Brother, I too worked the fields for six years, and my lily white skin provided no protection from UV rays. But I'm pretty damn sure my boss didn't no dick about UV exposure risk, as he was out there too with his lily white skin frying like mine. And that's the point. The players were given ready access to medications that should have been under the careful monitoring of a dude who knew dick about medications. NFL teams are akin to medical clinics, and they have a responsibility to ensure that the docs they employ are following best practices. If anything, given the pressures they are under and their work ethic, the teams needed to protect the players from themselves.

But damn, brother, you made 4.25? I was happy with 3.80.

You fellas are very young making that GOOD DOUGH.

I worked for the City of Saint John, NB Woods Dept. before I graduated from High School (1965 Summer Job) and made an adults wage of...

($1.80/HR). That was very decent money.