In Play at the OTAs (2014)

[pbmax]

Not Victor Aiyewa anymore.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 12m
In a slightly surprising move, the #Packers have released linebacker Victor Aiyewa, who played in five games last yr http://pck.rs/1heKNr1


WesHod said he is not listed as having failed a physical. Which I take to mean he punched a coach.

[pbmax]

Mike Daniels ‏@Mike_Daniels76 11h
1st day of OTAs #PackNation ! Excited to get back to playing some ball, improvement is the only option!!

TJ Lang @TJLang70
@Mike_Daniels76 remember it's no contact mr bull rush

Mike Daniels ‏@Mike_Daniels76 10h
@TJLang70 As long as you guys be easy on the double teams then I won't flip out too hard

[Patler]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

[pbmax]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

My bet is that they were sitting across from each other in the locker room.

Speaking of Twitter, speculation is rampant (and comprised completely of assumptions) that the open roster spot must be for Finley. That would go against Demovsky's report that he was just checking in but no tests would be run.

It would also be WAY ahead of Richardson's schedule with a injury lower on the column.

[Joemailman]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

You mean them or you, Mr. Internet Blogger.

[woodbuck27]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

Looking at the modern day teenager and communication:

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheets/teens-fact-sheet/

Teens Fact Sheet

Highlights of the Pew Internet Project’s research on teens.

Teens today don't just communicate as we did they E-Communicate.

** What will be the long term effect on their necks and upper spinal cord?

** How well will they communicate .... employer to employee..... spouse to spouse?

** What will they do with their hands if their cellular is taken away?

** How much would the removal of a cell phone deprive / inconvenience them?

[wist43]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

Saw a study that detailed how younger people don't have 'experiences', and have poorer memories of events due to the fact that their minds are always in the cyber world. Even special events, family events, etc, they don't retain memories b/c they are 1) recording it, or 2) they expect that someone is recording and can simply watch the video later 3) they are completely preoccupied in their cyber world thoughts to begin with.

It's sad and pathetic.

My wife and I take our kids to the park a lot... the younger parents let their rug rats out of the car, and either stay in the car or sit on the bench and text/tweet/talk until it's time to leave. Like I said, sad and pathetic.

[Just Jeff]

And yet Capers still has a wig from the 50s

[red]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lVwpPLSx0

[pbmax]

OTA open to public today. Anyone going? :lol:

[Zool]

OTA open to public today. Anyone going? :lol:

Could you live tweet it for me?

[pbmax]

I would live message board it from other Tweets, but will be gone this afternoon.

[Fritz]

Saw a study that detailed how younger people don't have 'experiences', and have poorer memories of events due to the fact that their minds are always in the cyber world. Even special events, family events, etc, they don't retain memories b/c they are 1) recording it, or 2) they expect that someone is recording and can simply watch the video later 3) they are completely preoccupied in their cyber world thoughts to begin with.

It's sad and pathetic.

My wife and I take our kids to the park a lot... the younger parents let their rug rats out of the car, and either stay in the car or sit on the bench and text/tweet/talk until it's time to leave. Like I said, sad and pathetic.


My memory of my cyber-world fantasy sex with Drew Barrymore is rich and rewarding, and I remember every detail, thank you very much.

[denverYooper]

Sounds like Micah Hyde was starting at one of the safety spots.

[Just Jeff]

My memory of my cyber-world fantasy sex with Drew Barrymore is rich and rewarding, and I remember every detail, thank you very much.

I see the current Drew very derection like, so I presume that you are referring to her much younger days. For that I applaud your pedo fantasies.

[mraynrand]

My memory of my cyber-world fantasy sex with Drew Barrymore is rich and rewarding, and I remember every detail, thank you very much.

You're a VERY BAD MAN!

https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Archive/Search/2012/9/27/1348748764877/Drew-Barrymore-in-Firesta-011.jpg

[red]

Sounds like Micah Hyde was starting at one of the safety spots.

yup, i just read (maybe on here) or heard recently that we shouldn't be surprised it clinton-dix is one starter and hyde is the other one

seemed to be that that the team knows just how bad burnett was last year and he might have played himself out of a starting job

the bad thing is that we are stuck with him this year, even if he is a backup because it would cost more to cut him then to keep him. even if the team uses the june first designation he might still cost more to cut then keep. but it sounds like the team is ready to move on from him

and i say, thank god, he fucking sucked last year

[Joemailman]

Sounds like Micah Hyde was starting at one of the safety spots.

Can't believe they've already given up on Ha2.

[Iron Mike]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-1/Julius-Peppers-doing-more-but-Packers-want-to-do-less/42d3d25a-f4e6-4f6e-bdf3-59b20a33efe3?campaign=otas_20140530_24958756

[mraynrand]

Good Coachspeak:


“We wanted to operate at a lower volume of scheme,” McCarthy said of scheme evaluation his staff did following last season. “We went after scheme evaluation with the focus of doing less. We’ve learned the harsh lesson (in recent years) about playing players that weren’t ready in terms of scheme.”

"We wanted to operate at a lower volume of scheme" - gotta remember that one.

[woodbuck27]

My memory of my cyber-world fantasy sex with Drew Barrymore is rich and rewarding, and I remember every detail, thank you very much.

You don't qualify.

You were never a teenager with a cell phone.

You were likely like a lot of us with some mere hope.

[pbmax]

Nice summary (no details) of the new approach on Defense in this article: http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&id=14291&is_corp=1


“So in this package, you might have five or six different things as opposed to having 15,” Capers explained. “The deal is, we’ve got the different personnel groups, which ones can we put together that feature our best personnel and that are the most successful for us?”


More personnel. Less scheme.

[pbmax]

Lyerla got a warm welcome from the fans who don't apparently trust Finley's doc.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=14281&is_corp=1

[pbmax]

Raji on coming back on a one year deal and going back to nose. Says there was other interest but confirmed going back to nose was a big deal.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/261200601.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[pbmax]

As skinny as the Center Field foul pole.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bo2ce9ZIcAANy4D.jpg:large

[mraynrand]

Lyerla got a warm welcome from the fans who don't apparently trust Finley's doc.

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=14281&is_corp=1

Neck looks good to me!

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1792367892/image.jpg

[mraynrand]

Raji on coming back on a one year deal and going back to nose. Says there was other interest but confirmed going back to nose was a big deal.

You go on and believe whatever it is that gets you through the day Raji. Just reduce the suckitude.

[run pMc]

I'm sure there was interest, but probably not for $4M. If he even approximates 2010, he'll get lots of interest.
Pretty shocking when you consider what some teams threw around. I'm still baffled by the JAX - Toby Gerhart signing.

[Brandon494]

I'm sure there was interest, but probably not for $4M. If he even approximates 2010, he'll get lots of interest.
Pretty shocking when you consider what some teams threw around. I'm still baffled by the JAX - Toby Gerhart signing.

Fantasy sleeper this year.

[smuggler]

Toby Gerhart is a pretty good back. Not going to be great, by any stretch, but reliable and probably healthy. That is what the doctor ordered for the Jags.

[bobblehead]

It almost seems like this generation never talks directly to each other anymore, just electronically.

Good thing you and I don't do that!!

[woodbuck27]

Raji on coming back on a one year deal and going back to nose. Says there was other interest but confirmed going back to nose was a big deal.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/261200601.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

McDonalds was hiring.

[woodbuck27]

As skinny as the Center Field foul pole.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bo2ce9ZIcAANy4D.jpg:large

Yikes...feed that guy.

[smuggler]

Yeah, feed him 6 yard slants.

[Patler]

Good thing you and I don't do that!!

Do we know each other?

[woodbuck27]

Toby Gerhart is a pretty good back. Not going to be great, by any stretch, but reliable and probably healthy. That is what the doctor ordered for the Jags.

He'll get a better shot there but can he stand up?

RB's take an awful punishing in the NFL.

I worry about our guy "Eddie". It took so long to find a RB with his talent.

I hope that Eddie Lacy learns to protect himself better. He might consider NOT being a battering ram style of runner.

[Rutnstrut]

Rodgers has been pretty vocal at OTA's about his disappointment over having to start over again at center. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the guys that claim it's not a real important position and any player can be plugged in to there at any time. When your pro bowl QB is getting pissed about the cluster fuck at the position directly responsible for getting him the ball and calling the line protections. You better get your head out of your ass and listen.

[Rutnstrut]

He'll get a better shot there but can he stand up?

RB's take an awful punishing in the NFL.

I worry about our guy "Eddie". It took so long to find a RB with his talent.

I hope that Eddie Lacy learns to protect himself better. He might consider NOT being a battering ram style of runner.

You can't change the way Lacy runs, that punishing style is what makes him a great commodity. Besides if he starts worrying about getting hurt, he WILL get hurt.

[run pMc]

Rodgers has been pretty vocal at OTA's about his disappointment over having to start over again at center. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the guys that claim it's not a real important position and any player can be plugged in to there at any time. When your pro bowl QB is getting pissed about the cluster fuck at the position directly responsible for getting him the ball and calling the line protections. You better get your head out of your ass and listen.

Agree with Rodgers that it's a PITA to keep having to work with a new C every year. If Tretter and/or Linsley pan out he won't have that issue. He has the whole off-season to get used to it. Tretter's a smart guy and Linsley made the calls at OSU, so it's not like they can't call line protections or get on the same page with Rodgers.

Saturday wasn't the answer and EDS got a better contract...I don't think there's a lot to be done about that. They have a couple of players locked up for a few years in Tretter/Linsley.

[Brandon494]

Rodgers has been pretty vocal at OTA's about his disappointment over having to start over again at center. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the guys that claim it's not a real important position and any player can be plugged in to there at any time. When your pro bowl QB is getting pissed about the cluster fuck at the position directly responsible for getting him the ball and calling the line protections. You better get your head out of your ass and listen.


“Hopefully, we can get a guy who can stick for five or six years,” Rodgers said at his locker following Thursday’s OTA practice, for which Tretter worked as the center with the No. 1 offensive line. “As a quarterback, you appreciate when you can have some continuity there and some consistency.”

Oh yea he really seems disappointed...

[Brandon494]

Rodgers has been pretty vocal at OTA's about his disappointment over having to start over again at center. Just thought I'd throw that out there for the guys that claim it's not a real important position and any player can be plugged in to there at any time. When your pro bowl QB is getting pissed about the cluster fuck at the position directly responsible for getting him the ball and calling the line protections. You better get your head out of your ass and listen.

Oh yea he really seems disappointed...


“Hopefully, we can get a guy who can stick for five or six years,” Rodgers said at his locker following Thursday’s OTA practice, for which Tretter worked as the center with the No. 1 offensive line. “As a quarterback, you appreciate when you can have some continuity there and some consistency.”

[Rutnstrut]

Oh yea he really seems disappointed...

That's about as outspoken against the organization as Rodgers ever gets, read between the lines. He's stated his displeasure about the rotating door at center before.

[Brandon494]

Obviously he wants some continuity at the center position after having a new starter the past 3 years but he is hardly pissed.

[Joemailman]

Obviously he wants some continuity at the center position after having a new starter the past 3 years but he is hardly pissed.

And now he might get it. Linsley is 22. Tretter is 23. Whoever wins the battle has a chance to be the starting Center for a long time. If the Packers had brought EDS back, they probably would have been looking to replace him in a year or two because of his mediocrity. The revolving door would have continued. Now there's a chance it will stop.

[Brandon494]

I see Tretter being our starter for the next couple of years. Obviously the kid is smart graduating from Cornell and I also liked how he stayed in Green Bay the whole off season getting ready for this year.

[Brandon494]

Just going back and looking at last years draft...WOW. We might end up with 5-6 starters from that draft.

[Rutnstrut]

IMO this is AR's way of saying once we get the next starter let's keep him for awhile. I'm not lobbying for EDS here, what I am saying is it's another screw up that the TT ball sack crew love to overlook.

[Brandon494]

IMO this is AR's way of saying once we get the next starter let's keep him for awhile. I'm not lobbying for EDS here, what I am saying is it's another screw up that the TT ball sack crew love to overlook.

:roll::roll::talk::talk:

[smuggler]

2013 draft was as good as the 2011 draft was bad.

[woodbuck27]

And now he might get it. Linsley is 22. Tretter is 23. Whoever wins the battle has a chance to be the starting Center for a long time. If the Packers had brought EDS back, they probably would have been looking to replace him in a year or two because of his mediocrity. The revolving door would have continued. Now there's a chance it will stop.

This should happen as it's a key issue with the Packers that Aaron Rodgers has a center that he can feel really comfortable with....year to year to year. The turnover at that position and Packers is a negative.

[woodbuck27]

IMO this is AR's way of saying once we get the next starter let's keep him for awhile. I'm not lobbying for EDS here, what I am saying is it's another screw up that the TT ball sack crew love to overlook.

The TT LOVE is ................ "a Big Big LOVE".

[pbmax]

Packers offense in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 8th in points (minus Rodgers for 8 games)
2012, 5th in points

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 1st in points
2010, 10th in points


Impact by key issue (and pain in the ass) of starting center:

Terrible, no good has beens and never was: rank of 6.5 in league scoring
Awesome, irreplaceable and worth every penny even when injured Scott Wells: 5.5 rank in League scoring


I don't know how T2 sleeps at night.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think this is a case of the media "making news" with the questions they ask. I doubt Rodgers just spoke out and brought up the center thing. I don't recall ever in the Rodgers era or the Favre era for that matter having snap problems under center or any significant shotgun snap problems either. The issue regarding a center is blocking either in the running game or stopping the pass rush up the middle. With Saturday, for example, both of those were a problem. EDS was a major improvement; The key for this season is not taking a step back. I think we will be OK, as Saturday was over the hill, and Tretter and Linsley are both young and strong. The reason people (myself included) say just about anybody can be plugged in there is the Packers don't expect much from the position - no sophisticated pulling or whatever - just snap the ball and show some muscle up the middle.

[Just Jeff]

Packers offense in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 8th in points (minus Rodgers for 8 games)
2012, 5th in points

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 1st in points
2010, 10th in points


Impact by key issue (and pain in the ass) of starting center:

Terrible, no good has beens and never was: rank of 6.5 in league scoring
Awesome, irreplaceable and worth every penny even when injured Scott Wells: 5.5 rank in League scoring


I don't know how T2 sleeps at night.

Packers QB sacked in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 10th with 45; QB hits 20th with 75
2012, 5th with 51; QB hits 7th with 85

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 19th with 41; QB hits 21st with 73
2010, 16th with 38: QB hits 23rd with 67

I don't know how TT sleeps at night, but when he tried to rebuild our Oline, he certainly was

[Brandon494]

Packers QB sacked in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 10th with 45; QB hits 20th with 75
2012, 5th with 51; QB hits 7th with 85

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 19th with 41; QB hits 21st with 73
2010, 16th with 38: QB hits 23rd with 67

I don't know how TT sleeps at night, but when he tried to rebuild our Oline, he certainly was

So we blaming the center position now when it was obviously the tackles giving up the sacks?

[Brandon494]

Packers offense in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 8th in points (minus Rodgers for 8 games)
2012, 5th in points

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 1st in points
2010, 10th in points


Impact by key issue (and pain in the ass) of starting center:

Terrible, no good has beens and never was: rank of 6.5 in league scoring
Awesome, irreplaceable and worth every penny even when injured Scott Wells: 5.5 rank in League scoring


I don't know how T2 sleeps at night.

Funny how we were a more efficient offense when Finley played, what a waste of cap space.

[pbmax]

Packers QB sacked in the two years since Scott Wells:

2013, 10th with 45; QB hits 20th with 75
2012, 5th with 51; QB hits 7th with 85

Last two years of Scott Wells.

2011, 19th with 41; QB hits 21st with 73
2010, 16th with 38: QB hits 23rd with 67

I don't know how TT sleeps at night, but when he tried to rebuild our Oline, he certainly was

Was that Wells or Bulaga and Clifton? Or was it protection calls? Hard to separate out without film.

I don't have McGinn's season ending totals article at hand, but if I recall, Newhouse in 2012 and Barclay in 2013 were the biggest offenders.

[Just Jeff]

Was that Wells or Bulaga and Clifton? Or was it protection calls? Hard to separate out without film.

I don't have McGinn's season ending totals article at hand, but if I recall, Newhouse in 2012 and Barclay in 2013 were the biggest offenders.

I'm not really saying that the center position was responsible for all of that, but you posted numbers showing how we didn't miss Wells, and I posted numbers that said we do. My perspective is, was and will be, when drafting Olinemen (not just centers), TT should not be in the room, not even for a fist bump.

[Brandon494]

I'm not really saying that the center position was responsible for all of that, but you posted numbers showing how we didn't miss Wells, and I posted numbers that said we do. My perspective is, was and will be, when drafting Olinemen (not just centers), TT should not be in the room, not even for a fist bump.

I disagree, besides Sherrod who had a freak accident, which OL did TT whiff on?

[pbmax]

I'm not really saying that the center position was responsible for all of that, but you posted numbers showing how we didn't miss Wells, and I posted numbers that said we do. My perspective is, was and will be, when drafting Olinemen (not just centers), TT should not be in the room, not even for a fist bump.

I think the terrible injury luck with his replacement tackles, Sherrod and Bulaga, has forced the team's hand in ways that directly hurt performance. Prior to 2013, it was the run game that usually suffered. Whether by design or lack of options, Tauscher, Clifton and Newhouse all pass blocked better than run blocked.

With Bach and Barclay, it was pass pro. Neither is ideal for that job. Both likely will need to improve to keep their job long term.

If Bulaga cannot be trusted to stay healthy or Sherrod peters out, they are going to have to find another Left Tackle because I am not sure the future starter is on the team in that case.

With a rejuvenated run game, Rodgers could adopt one of veteran Favre's skills and get the ball out early rather than waiting for a bigger play.

[Just Jeff]

Take your pick. He's drafted about 25 Olinemen and we've had the most knocked down QB in the NFL over the last 3 years. Sorry, if he's had so many "hits" why are we on our 3rd center in as many years and have a revolving door at the other positions as well. This year AGAIN we will possibly have 4 of our 5 opening day starters different from last year and them, 4 out of 5 from the prior year.

[Patler]

I disagree, besides Sherrod who had a freak accident, which OL did TT whiff on?

For discussion purpose, these are the ones he drafted:

Name/round drafted


Coston/5
Whitticker/7
Colledge/2
Spitz/3
Moll/5
Barbre/4
Sitton/4
Giacomini/5
Lang/4
Meredith/5
Bulaga/1
Newhouse/5
Sherrod/1
Sclauderaff/6
Datko/7
Bakhtiari/4
Tretter/4

I think all were on a roster for at least a while in 2013, except Coston, Whitticker, Moll and Datko. Moll still had visits last year, including at GB, I think (or was that two years ago in the off season?) Even Spitz was in Seattle a couple weeks last year.

That's really a pretty decent drafting record.

[Just Jeff]

For discussion purpose, these are the ones he drafted:

Name/round drafted


Coston/5
Whitticker/7
Colledge/2
Spitz/3
Moll/5
Barbre/4
Sitton/4
Giacomini/5
Lang/4
Meredith/5
Bulaga/1
Newhouse/5
Sherrod/1
Sclauderaff/6
Datko/7
Bakhtiari/4
Tretter/4

I think all were on a roster for at least a while in 2013, except Coston, Whitticker, Moll and Datko. Moll still had visits last year, including at GB, I think (or was that two years ago in the off season?) Even Spitz was in Seattle a couple weeks last year.

That's really a pretty decent drafting record.

Are we looking at the same list? Other than Sitton, there isn't one player there that did anything special on the Packers. I love Bulaga, but if you're not on the field you can't be good. I like Bakhtiari, but he really wasn't special and was thrust into action, only because of an injury. You can make up whatever story you want about Sherrod, but see Bulaga. The others are just guys. The top 6 were all huge nothings.

[Brandon494]

Are we looking at the same list? Other than Sitton, there isn't one player there that did anything special on the Packers. I love Bulaga, but if you're not on the field you can't be good. I like Bakhtiari, but he really wasn't special and was thrust into action, only because of an injury. You can make up whatever story you want about Sherrod, but see Bulaga. The others are just guys. The top 6 were all huge nothings.

So which GM do you think is the best at drafting OL?

[Guiness]

For discussion purpose, these are the ones he drafted:

Name/round drafted


Coston/5
Whitticker/7
Colledge/2
Spitz/3
Moll/5
Barbre/4
Sitton/4
Giacomini/5
Lang/4
Meredith/5
Bulaga/1
Newhouse/5
Sherrod/1
Sclauderaff/6
Datko/7
Bakhtiari/4
Tretter/4

I think all were on a roster for at least a while in 2013, except Coston, Whitticker, Moll and Datko. Moll still had visits last year, including at GB, I think (or was that two years ago in the off season?) Even Spitz was in Seattle a couple weeks last year.

That's really a pretty decent drafting record.

That list is a little depressing. Four decent guards in Colledge, Sitton, Land and Meredith. Barbre finally found the field this past year.

[run pMc]

With a rejuvenated run game, Rodgers could adopt one of veteran Favre's skills and get the ball out early rather than waiting for a bigger play.

This has been mentioned in the JSO and elsewhere -- Rodgers will hold onto the ball and wait for coverage to breakdown. It's caused the numbers to look worse than the OL really is.
OTOH, a healthy Scott Wells is better than Saturday or EDS, so I agree they were better at C with him.

It would be a stretch to expect a rookie to step in at C and play as well as Wells did before he left. I do think they will be at least as good as EDS, with the chance to get a lot better and stick around for more than a year or two. I'd expect Tretter and Linsley to have higher floor and much higher ceiling than EDS. Rodgers' wanting stability at C isn't really big news; any QB would say that.

TT has had a few whiffs on the OL, but I don't think he's done badly. As a R1 pick Sherrod's injury impacts perspective. Sitton is a Pro Bowl G, Bulaga if healthy is good enough to sniff a few PB votes at RT, and Lang isn't bad either. Bahktiari held up remarkably well at LT as a somewhat undersized rookie. The starting C will be one of his draft picks, barring a TC surprise. It's not a Top 5 OL, but they could squeak into the Top 10 or 12.

IIRC a back injury derailed Spitz's career. Meredith has started games for teams, Giacomini just signed a fat contract, as did Colledge a few years back. I thought they spun Schlauderaff into another draft pick, I'm not sure what the story was there but at least they got something for him. It's not a murderer's row of OL, but most of these guys played elsewhere after their time in GB. That means someone else snatched up TT's draft picks. Implying TT drafted better than they did would be a stretch, but it speaks volumes about his reputation around the league.

[mraynrand]

This discussion is going to the Wells once too often

[cheesner]

This has been mentioned in the JSO and elsewhere -- Rodgers will hold onto the ball and wait for coverage to breakdown. It's caused the numbers to look worse than the OL really is.
OTOH, a healthy Scott Wells is better than Saturday or EDS, so I agree they were better at C with him.

It would be a stretch to expect a rookie to step in at C and play as well as Wells did before he left. I do think they will be at least as good as EDS, with the chance to get a lot better and stick around for more than a year or two. I'd expect Tretter and Linsley to have higher floor and much higher ceiling than EDS. Rodgers' wanting stability at C isn't really big news; any QB would say that.

TT has had a few whiffs on the OL, but I don't think he's done badly. As a R1 pick Sherrod's injury impacts perspective. Sitton is a Pro Bowl G, Bulaga if healthy is good enough to sniff a few PB votes at RT, and Lang isn't bad either. Bahktiari held up remarkably well at LT as a somewhat undersized rookie. The starting C will be one of his draft picks, barring a TC surprise. It's not a Top 5 OL, but they could squeak into the Top 10 or 12.

IIRC a back injury derailed Spitz's career. Meredith has started games for teams, Giacomini just signed a fat contract, as did Colledge a few years back. I thought they spun Schlauderaff into another draft pick, I'm not sure what the story was there but at least they got something for him. It's not a murderer's row of OL, but most of these guys played elsewhere after their time in GB. That means someone else snatched up TT's draft picks. Implying TT drafted better than they did would be a stretch, but it speaks volumes about his reputation around the league.
Its unfortunate that the two highest OL picks have been beset with injuries. But all and all, the line is looking fairly decent at the moment. The talent seems better and continuity is slowly building. Having some good RBs will also help these guys look a little better.

[woodbuck27]

So which GM do you think is the best at drafting OL?


That's easy and here's just one NFL Team current GM (Trent Baalke) that's very good at working as a team member acquiring talent for his 49ers Offensive Line.

Imagine Aaron Rodgers operating behind this OL!?

LT: Joe Staley
LG: Mike Iupati
C: Jonathan Goodwin
RG: Alex Boone
RT: Anthony Davis

Super Sub: G/T Adam Snyder

http://www.49ers.com/team/staff/trent-baalke/8551a07d-d52e-4bb6-8e3e-c5c1244cad74

Trent Baalke is entering his ninth year with the San Fran 49ers and his third as the team’s general manager.

His 2005–present history with the San Francisco 49ers:

** Western Region Scout 2005-07

**Director of Player Personnel 2008-09.

** VP of Player Personnel 2010

** General Manager 2011- Present and Extended (2012) through the 2016 season.

The 2011 NFL Executive of the Year, as selected by Pro Football Weekly and the Pro Football Writers of America.

The Green Bay Packers have the 18th ranked Offensive Line according to RotoWorld and this article (May 15, 2013):

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/43265/179/2013-offensive-line-rankings?pg=2

[Patler]

Are we looking at the same list? Other than Sitton, there isn't one player there that did anything special on the Packers. I love Bulaga, but if you're not on the field you can't be good. I like Bakhtiari, but he really wasn't special and was thrust into action, only because of an injury. You can make up whatever story you want about Sherrod, but see Bulaga. The others are just guys. The top 6 were all huge nothings.

The vast majority are 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round draft picks. Do you expect them to be All-Pros? When they get 2nd contracts, its a good pick. When they still are bouncing around the nfl after 8 years, it was a good pick. I'm not a fan of Daryn Colledge, but he has started in the NFL for 8 years. That wasn't a bad pick.

Bulaga and Sherrod haven't worked out. Bulaga has shown signs of being a good player when not injured, but I agree, he isn't a success. Sherrod hasn't really shown anything. However, I'm not sure either shows a lack of ability to pick OL by TT. They also aren't evidence that he can pick them, unless they go on to decent careers.

[pbmax]

I can't hold the Bulaga or Sherrod picks against him, from a draft evaluation point of view. You add them onto the Guards, its not a terrible haul. And Spitz was more than serviceable before a back injury.

Bulaga was clearly worthy but seems to be breaking down before the end of his first contract. Sherrod not only missed the majority of a year with a broken leg, he missed another year from a botched surgery on that leg.

Now, from an overall personnel vantage point has he left too little at tackle? Yes. And that is partially the cost of doing business in BPA, but also on counting on Clifton and Tauscher to see them through too long. Bulaga was drafted when each was going to be a 10 year vet.

[bobblehead]

IMO this is AR's way of saying once we get the next starter let's keep him for awhile. I'm not lobbying for EDS here, what I am saying is it's another screw up that the TT ball sack crew love to overlook.

Is it a screw up to replace a below average and overpaid player because your QB wants continuity? And mind you, I consider not paying Wells as TT's biggest mistake.

[mraynrand]

I consider not paying Wells as TT's biggest mistake.

It's almost as horrible as Tamora eating Chiron and Demetrius pie.

[Just Jeff]

The vast majority are 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round draft picks. Do you expect them to be All-Pros? When they get 2nd contracts, its a good pick. When they still are bouncing around the nfl after 8 years, it was a good pick. I'm not a fan of Daryn Colledge, but he has started in the NFL for 8 years. That wasn't a bad pick.

No I expect the line to protect the QB especially when the QBs we've had over the last 20+ years are who they are. When you are number 1 on getting your QB knocked on their ass, you've failed. Tony Mandarich played well in Indy, yet somehow he is considered by many to be the biggest bust in NFL drafting history.

[mraynrand]

No I expect the line to protect the QB especially when the QBs we've had over the last 20+ years are who they are. When you are number 1 on getting your QB knocked on their ass, you've failed. Tony Mandarich played well in Indy, yet somehow he is considered by many to be the biggest bust in NFL drafting history.

Colledge and Mandarich picks aren't even in the same universe. And though Manwich played fair in Indy, from my reading people generally think Colledge is a lot more solid than Manwich. Manwich in Indy = stop gap.

[Just Jeff]

Colledge and Mandarich picks aren't even in the same universe. And though Manwich played fair in Indy, from my reading people generally think Colledge is a lot more solid than Manwich. Manwich in Indy = stop gap.
My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. If you think that Colledge was a "solid" olineman for the Packers, then Patler's list of TT's oline gems must have made you turgid.

[Patler]

If a criticism of TT is to be made, I think it is that he hasn't committed enough high draft picks to the O-line. In 10 drafts, just two first, one second and one third for what amounts to over 20% of the starting positions. He has tried to put together an O-line with mostly low draft picks, and he might have pulled it off if Bulaga and Sherrod had avoided injury and performed as expected.

[smuggler]

The fact that the player personnel dept actually drafted a true center this year rings as a departure from previous drafting ethos. Though I do agree with Just Jeff to some extent, I still have some hope that things will improve.

[pbmax]

My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. If you think that Colledge was a "solid" olineman for the Packers, then Patler's list of TT's oline gems must have made you turgid.

He was better than Mandarich. Certainly a better pass blocker and probably even as a run blocker. He had limitations and could be beaten clean at times, but that was usually the exception. The Cardinals kept him last year even after signing Carson Palmer, so they trusted he was not QB kryptonite.

Mandarich was a marginal starter for a bad team. Colledge went to the NFC Championship Game in his second year.

Unless you are terrible as a team for a decade, you can't draft 1s and 2s across the board on the O line. He was sufficient but replaceable. He is emblematic of a problem, though not because of his play at Guard. Thompson keeps seeing guys like this in college and holds out hope they can develop or backup at Left Tackle. Until Bach, that wasn't really working.

[mraynrand]

My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. If you think that Colledge was a "solid" olineman for the Packers, then Patler's list of TT's oline gems must have made you turgid.

My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. That Colledge is regarded better than Manwich.

Meanwhile, Patler wrote: "I'm not a fan of Daryn Colledge, but he has started in the NFL for 8 years. That wasn't a bad pick." How you can twist that into "solid" for the Packers or construe Patler's list as "gems" probably explains how you missed my simple point. Cheers!

[Rutnstrut]

"I consider not paying Wells as TT's biggest mistake. "

I said at the time they let him go that it would bite TT in the ass, and really if you are honest about it, it has. Whether people want to admit it or not, quality centers aren't a dime a dozen. if you have one, you better pay the man. Especially if he's snapping the ball to your star QB who isn't getting any younger.

[RashanGary]

If that's the biggest mistake of a GM who had been calling the shots for nearly a decade, it's no wonder the Packers have been so successful and no wonder tt gets so much respect around the league. As. Packer fans, we've been blessed.

[MadScientist]

"I consider not paying Wells as TT's biggest mistake. "

I said at the time they let him go that it would bite TT in the ass, and really if you are honest about it, it has. Whether people want to admit it or not, quality centers aren't a dime a dozen. if you have one, you better pay the man. Especially if he's snapping the ball to your star QB who isn't getting any younger.

On the other hand Wells has missed 13 games over the last 2 seasons. TT did screw up by not finding a better replacement, but they may have anticipated problems with Well's health or his declining ability.

[Patler]

At the time, I wanted them to let Finley walk and use the money to sign Wells because they had no one else at center. But, I'm not sure that would have been a good idea either. Even putting aside his injuries (he has played only 19 games the last two seasons), it sounds as if his play has slipped, and at 33 he will continue to slide. There have been rumors that the Rams will let him go, and several articles have said his sub last year graded out better than Wells did. They also have Barratt Jones.

[Just Jeff]

Colledge and Mandarich picks aren't even in the same universe. And though Manwich played fair in Indy, from my reading people generally think Colledge is a lot more solid than Manwich. Manwich in Indy = stop gap.

I hope this solve the mystery of where I got "solid" from.


My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. That Colledge is regarded better than Manwich.

Meanwhile, Patler wrote: "I'm not a fan of Daryn Colledge, but he has started in the NFL for 8 years. That wasn't a bad pick." How you can twist that into "solid" for the Packers or construe Patler's list as "gems" probably explains how you missed my simple point. Cheers!

I never said that Manderich was better than Colledge. Colledge's may have had some solid years, but they weren't in Green Bay.
Truth > made up shit

[mraynrand]

I hope this solve the mystery of where I got "solid" from.

but it's not from where it matters. No one said Colledge was solid relative to any standard other than in comparison to Manwich. Try again.

Understanding > incomprehension

[mraynrand]

I never said that Manderich was better than Colledge. Colledge's may have had some solid years, but they weren't in Green Bay.


The point wasn't whether Colledge was 'solid' it was whether he was a bad pick or not - at least that was Patler's point. I'll leave it to Patler to say whether Patler thinks he's 'solid' and against what standard.

Colledge>Manwich
Understanding>made up shit

[Just Jeff]

but it's not from where it matters. No one said Colledge was solid relative to any standard other than in comparison to Manwich. Try again.

Understanding > incomprehension

Then you shouldn't have used the work solid. I didn't choose the wrong word, you did. That's why I put it in quotes. I hate when what I say, comes back to bite me.

[Brandon494]

"I consider not paying Wells as TT's biggest mistake. "

I said at the time they let him go that it would bite TT in the ass, and really if you are honest about it, it has. Whether people want to admit it or not, quality centers aren't a dime a dozen. if you have one, you better pay the man. Especially if he's snapping the ball to your star QB who isn't getting any younger.

Packers fans are spoiled brats, other teams are complaining about not having a QB while you guys are complaining about TT letting go of a center past his prime.

FYI there is a reason centers get paid the least of all offensive lineman.

[Just Jeff]

The point wasn't whether Colledge was 'solid' it was whether he was a bad pick or not - at least that was Patler's point. Colledge>Manwich
Understanding>made up shit


My point was simple, so I applaud you for missing it. That Colledge is regarded better than Manwich.

So then you don't think that Colledge is solid? Thanx for agreeing with my original premise, that you went to pains to discredit, which was, TT has done a terrible job of developing our Oline.

[Patler]

I hope this solve the mystery of where I got "solid" from.



I never said that Manderich was better than Colledge. Colledge's may have had some solid years, but they weren't in Green Bay.
Truth > made up shit



...and I never said my list was a "list of TT's oline gems". I did describe it as a list all of TT's O-line draft picks, "for discussion purposes".

So, who is writing the "made up shit"???

Kind of interesting to note that 11 of his last 12 O-line draft choices, going back to Allen Barbre in 2007 are all still playing in the league. They aren't stars by any stretch, but still good enough to hold down roster spots. Two of the five in the two years prior to that were on roster last year, and another is still considered by teams. In fact, only 3 of his 17 draft picks had seemingly dead NFL careers as of 2013. Maybe he hasn't correctly evaluated potential stars, but as far as finding guys capable of playing in the NFL, he has done a pretty good job, especially when you add in the free agents he has found like EDS and Barclay.

Overall, rebuilding the O-line has been a work in progress for 10 years, and they aren't there yet. Probably a combination of factors causing it, and TT shares some of the blame.

[Brandon494]

What do the Offensive Lines of Elite Offenses ACTUALLY Look Like?

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/3/26/5546382/what-do-the-offensive-lines-of-elite-offenses-actually-look-like-part

Interesting piece I found on offensive lines of the top offenses in the NFL.

[Just Jeff]

Packers fans are spoiled brats, other teams are complaining about not having a QB while you guys are complaining about TT letting go of a center past his prime.

FYI there is a reason centers get paid the least of all offensive lineman.
If you can find an NFL message board where people don't complain about every aspect of their team, I'll buy you a hamburger at KFC.

[Patler]

What do the Offensive Lines of Elite Offenses ACTUALLY Look Like?

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/3/26/5546382/what-do-the-offensive-lines-of-elite-offenses-actually-look-like-part

Interesting piece I found on offensive lines of the top offenses in the NFL.

Interesting article/analysis. I found the following particularly interesting:



So my previous article concluded that most top-10 offenses have 2 or 3 early round picks on the offensive line along with 2-3 complementary players in the later rounds (round 4 or later). The majority either had just 1 Pro Bowler or none. Nearly half started 1 rookie, and the 2nd best scoring offense in the NFL (Bears) started 2 rookies, including one in round 5. That was based purely on draft pedigree.

If Bulaga and Sherrod could get on and stay on the field, GB would fit very nicely into that description. Maybe TT's approach wasn't so screwed up after all?

[mraynrand]

So then you don't think that Colledge is solid? Thanx for agreeing with my original premise, that you went to pains to discredit, which was, TT has done a terrible job of developing our Oline.

I did no such thing. Try again. Your reading comprehension is at about the third grade level at this point.

[Just Jeff]

I did no such thing. Try again. Your reading comprehension is at about the third grade level at this point.

Sure you did. If I say that Colledge was amongst a list of busts, as posted by Patler, and you disagree, then you are discrediting my original premise. When you call him "solid" by any means, that's what you are doing. Then when you come back and say that you didn't mean "solid" to mean solid, just better than another bum that I called a bust, you are now having a healthy debate between youself. But rather than post like a little girl, parsing words, it might just be easier to state your opinion about the state of our Oline, as I did. We may not agree, but I'll just come out and tell you that I don't agree with you, rather than trip over my own works for multiple posts.

[Just Jeff]

I did no such thing. Try again. Your reading comprehension is at about the third grade level at this point.
I went to a public school, so I do appreciate the assessment of my reading skills. Maybe you can tell me in plain third grade english, which one applies to Colledge's performance in Green Bay

Solid
Not Solid

[Rutnstrut]

Packers fans are spoiled brats, other teams are complaining about not having a QB while you guys are complaining about TT letting go of a center past his prime.

FYI there is a reason centers get paid the least of all offensive lineman.

If TT keeps trying to make subpar O-lineman work, we WILL be complaining about not having a QB, as Rodgers will be hurt.

[run pMc]

What do the Offensive Lines of Elite Offenses ACTUALLY Look Like?

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/3/26/5546382/what-do-the-offensive-lines-of-elite-offenses-actually-look-like-part

Interesting piece I found on offensive lines of the top offenses in the NFL.


I thought this was pretty interesting quote:

So looking at that chart, the majority of the offensive lines of top-10 offenses had at least 2 good players, according to PFF. However, they also had at least 2 average or bad players and that nonetheless didn't stop their offense from being top-10 in the NFL.

FWIW, GB comes in ranked overall as #10.

A healthy Bulaga replaces Barclay and upgrades the line. A stronger, wiser Bahktiari (assuming he beats Sherrod) will be an improvement at LT. I think Tretter will be at least as good as EDS if not better at C. The line improves on these things.

TT's record for OL isn't bad IMO, bearing in mind he's rarely drafted in the Top 10 and when he has he focused elsewhere with his pick than with a prototypical franchise LT. The Orlando Paces and John Ogdens of the world get picked fast in R1.

[mraynrand]

I went to a public school, so I do appreciate the assessment of my reading skills. Maybe you can tell me in plain third grade english, which one applies to Colledge's performance in Green Bay

Solid
Not Solid

In my view, somewhere in between.

[mraynrand]

Sure you did. If I say that Colledge was amongst a list of busts, as posted by Patler, and you disagree, then you are discrediting my original premise. When you call him "solid" by any means, that's what you are doing.

First, I did not call him 'solid' except in relation to Manwich. Second, your original premise was "TT has done a terrible job of developing our Oline." Since I was only evaluating Colledge with respect to Manwich, a comparison of one so-so GB lineman drafted by TT, to another terrible lineman not drafted by TT, I believe anyone at the third grade level should know that this is insufficient data and analysis with which to draw broad conclusion regarding your original premise that "TT has done a terrible job of developing our Oline."

[Guiness]

What's with the Colledge hate? No problem with his play (at guard!) in GB. IIRC he went to Arizona because they outbid the Pack, not because he wasn't wanted back.

[bobblehead]

I hope this solve the mystery of where I got "solid" from.



I never said that Manderich was better than Colledge. Colledge's may have had some solid years, but they weren't in Green Bay.
Truth > made up shit

college absolutely did have solid years on GB. He was a solid starter. If he was not why didn't anyone ever beat him out of the job? If he was not, why did the Cardinals pay a guy with 4 years of starting game tape solid starter money. You may be one of those guys where everyone who isn't clay mathews or another all pro "sucks", but truth > made up shit. College was/is a solid NFL starter. The proof is in the fact that no one has beaten him out of a starting gig in 8 years.

[bobblehead]

So then you don't think that Colledge is solid? Thanx for agreeing with my original premise, that you went to pains to discredit, which was, TT has done a terrible job of developing our Oline.

If that is accurate, then you are both wrong.

[bobblehead]

I went to a public school, so I do appreciate the assessment of my reading skills. Maybe you can tell me in plain third grade english, which one applies to Colledge's performance in Green Bay

Solid
Not Solid

Solid. No one beat him out. He landed a starters deal with another team and no one beat him out there. What is your definition of solid NFL guard?

[Just Jeff]

Solid. No one beat him out. He landed a starters deal with another team and no one beat him out there. What is your definition of solid NFL guard?
Of course no one beat him out. Did you see the list of Olinemen that Patler posted? Colledge is the tallest midget on the list. It took a half a season for EDS to beat out Saturday. Was Saturday "solid" for half a season, by way of your logic? Also the Cardinals picking Colledge up doesn't make him "solid" either. If TT is anything, he's a big resigner of his own guys and he didn't resign Colledge. So in TT's mind, Colledge did get beat out, by TJ Lang.

Not saying that TT might have been better off keeping Colledge and Wells, but I'm not sure Lang and Saturday were improvements.

[bobblehead]

Of course no one beat him out. Did you see the list of Olinemen that Patler posted? Colledge is the tallest midget on the list. It took a half a season for EDS to beat out Saturday. Was Saturday "solid" for half a season, by way of your logic? Also the Cardinals picking Colledge up doesn't make him "solid" either. If TT is anything, he's a big resigner of his own guys and he didn't resign Colledge. So in TT's mind, Colledge did get beat out, by TJ Lang.

Not saying that TT might have been better off keeping Colledge and Wells, but I'm not sure Lang and Saturday were improvements.

So, excuses. Sounds about right. College sucks, just that everyone else sucks more. TT didn't feel like paying college. TT didn't resign wells, does that mean that someone beat him out for the position? EDS walked, did he get beat out? Your idea of getting beat out is kinda weird. Jennings got beat out for his job?

Look, I am not backing any poster in this debate, but Daryn College while not an all pro, was/is a solid pro. To argue otherwise is to stare facts in the face and deny them. The guy missed virtually no starts, played 3 positions at times (although only 2 of them well), and played against stud DT's in the NFC north. He won some he lost some. He won't be in the hall of fame. He isn't as good as sitton. There are however most teams that would take him at the right price. If he were a FA right now he would start again somewhere. He likely will get 10-14 seasons as an NFL starter when its said and done....what isn't solid about that?

[Just Jeff]

EDS walked, did he get beat out? Your idea of getting beat out is kinda weird. Jennings got beat out for his job?

Yes the reason that EDS walked is because we didn't want him back, which is an impolite way fo saying he got beat, by X. Jennings didn't come back, because we didn[t want him back, which is an impolite way of saying he got beat by X. EDS was particularly pointed in that we don't have a center in the roster who has taken a snap and he still wasn't wanted back, even as insurance. You could say he was beat or you can say he was bad, but he's not back, so TT made one of those conclusions. You can say Colledge was beat or you can say he was bad, but he's didn't get resigned by the GM who is imfamous for signing he own picks, so it was one of them.

Now I don't have a horse in this race as Colledge is old news and I'm not saying that he was a bum, but he's just a servicable guard who has stayed healthy. He'll never be and never was a stud (solid). Just a guy.

The better debate is would you rather have a stud who plays 10 games a year or a servicable guy who can play 15-16 for 10-14 years. Not sure I would disagree with taking Colledge over Bulaga in that one.

[Just Jeff]

So, excuses. Sounds about right. College sucks, just that everyone else sucks more.
OK, who on that list was better than Colledge when we let Colledge go? His replacement was Lang. Is Lang better? I don't think so? If we would have had a better replacement, don't you think we would have played him?

[pbmax]

Yes the reason that EDS walked is because we didn't want him back, which is an impolite way fo saying he got beat, by X. Jennings didn't come back, because we didn[t want him back, which is an impolite way of saying he got beat by X.

I undertand the point, but I think you make the decision to leave/stay too determinative. Jennings had been offered more than $8 mil per season prior to his last year. He got hurt and the market was not what he hoped for, but I think the offer is a testament to how he was viewed in the organization in his last packer season. Had he accepted the deal, would the Packers have been saying they viewed him as irreplaceable?

He clearly was a player they liked, given the offer. But he also was a player who they have capped in terms of how much value they think they will see in return. I think in large measure that had to do with his age.

Jennings was beat out of his job, but he was beat out of his job by someone with better value, which quite literally means a dollar amount per future production for the Packers. The Packers have done this with a number of players who did not have someone better behind them (Woodson).

[pbmax]

I still have no idea what Dom and M3 are trying to tell us:

from JSO and Ty Dunne: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/261334071.html


Q: Peter, Vienna, Austria - Hi Tyler, glad to see you're still rocking the beard - obviously a great decision you made a couple of years ago. I can't really combine the whole the "more packages, less plays" bit and "too vanilla last year" comment; usually, less plays implies a more basic approach. To me it wouldn't make sense to have less plays, but just rather complex ones. I know there's not a lot of information yet on the schematic changes on defense, but what do you make of this? And how does the Elephant-position fit into this? Thanks and greetings from Europe!

A: Tyler Dunne - Peter: You got it. If you can't grow it on your head anymore, you might as well on your face. ...You're not alone in that confusion. I think a lot of us in the media were a tad puzzled at first, too. Asked to clear it all up, here's what Dom Capers said last week: “Less volume, more packages. ..."In this package you might have five or six different things, as opposed to having 15. … I’ve always believed your personnel dictates that so much. You can go back and say, ‘did we get too vanilla last year?’ Well, we were forced to get pretty vanilla. And the problem is, in this league, you can be vanilla if you’re just better than the people you’re playing against. You can be pretty vanilla. So the deal is, it’s going to be, we’ve got the different personnel groups. There’s ones we’ve put together that will feature our best personnel that are the most successful for us.” .... So my understanding is that they want to have many different packages, but less confusion within those packages. And to do this, you need versatile players --- a Julius Peppers who can stand up, and go down into a stance, a Mike Neal who could be an interior rusher one play and a stand-up OLB the next, etc.

[mraynrand]

^^^^ does sound a little like semantics. 6 packages with 5 options each is the similar (but not identical to) 3 packages with 10 options each.

[Fritz]

^^^^ does sound a little like semantics. 6 packages with 5 options each is the similar (but not identical to) 3 packages with 10 options each.


If someone could define for me what a "package" is, exactly, and what "options" are, that might help.

The only "package" references I know are via UPS and via my girlfriend's comments about other men.

[pbmax]

^^^^ does sound a little like semantics. 6 packages with 5 options each is the similar (but not identical to) 3 packages with 10 options each.

And I don't think they are playing that game.

Source of my confusion is that one of McCarthy's problems he talked about in the offseason was the a couple of guys also get hurt and suddenly you are vanilla. Lot's of stuff done in the offseason is out the window.

But he also said they want to simplify and trust the players to win the battle's where they had the advantage. And I took that to mean no more square pegs in round holes to fit the D scheme. It also would fit with draft and develop. However, it would require some changes to the base scheme as they are short of 6' 5" DEs and one ILB.

But Dom seems to be saying it might be vanilla, but if you are physically superior, you can win that way. But is he just making a point and not telling us what will actually happen OR is vanilla the new plan? Can you win the physical matchup with versatile players? Rather than dominant, prototypical players?

I would think you either go versatile and throw multiple looks at them by mixing and matching players versus what you think the O will actually do.

Or you would go vanilla and get the exact players the scheme calls for and win the battles one on one.

[pbmax]

If someone could define for me what a "package" is, exactly, and what "options" are, that might help.

The only "package" references I know are via UPS and via my girlfriend's comments about other men.

Package is the player lineup. Oakie-Base, Nickel, Big Nickel, Run-Stopping Hippo Nickel, Dime, etc.

Options are the scheme you can run with that personnel on the field. Options and tweaks (adjustments based on opponent personnel or tendency) are generally where the complexities manifest themselves and mark the difference between the preseason and the regular season.

However, as LeBeau as said of his valuing veterans, his baseline D installation is more than most young players can handle.

[Fritz]

I think the "vanilla" example was just an example; I don't think Dom meant they're going vanilla. I think he meant that once he lost a certain number of players to injury, he didn't have other guys cross-trained, so he was limited in what packages (that word!) he could use - thus, the vanilla.

My understanding is that they'll cross-train guys to play lots of spots, so they can use the defense they want to and not be so dependent on who's available.

So Mike Neal can be an OLB or a down lineman, Peppers can be a DE or an OLB or rush inside, Tramon Williams will be able to play inside or out, Micah Hyde can play the slot or the safety spots, Mike Daniels will be able to play nose, DE, and safety, Clay Matthews will be able to play OLB and ILB - at the same time! - and so on.

[Brandon494]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2014/5/30/5765556/packers-2014-ota-weigh-ins-reveal-progress-for-second-year-players

Bakhtiari and Datonoe Jones both put on 10 lbs during the off season while Josh Boyd put on 25 pounds bringing him to 328. Boyd played DE last season but with that weight he has to be the favorite to backup at NT which I believe is his best position. I can't wait for the season to start, expecting big things from the defense this year. I see a rematch of Super Bowl XXXII in the near future.

[mraynrand]

And I don't think they are playing that game.

Source of my confusion is that one of McCarthy's problems he talked about in the offseason was the a couple of guys also get hurt and suddenly you are vanilla. Lot's of stuff done in the offseason is out the window.

But he also said they want to simplify and trust the players to win the battle's where they had the advantage. And I took that to mean no more square pegs in round holes to fit the D scheme. It also would fit with draft and develop. However, it would require some changes to the base scheme as they are short of 6' 5" DEs and one ILB.

But Dom seems to be saying it might be vanilla, but if you are physically superior, you can win that way. But is he just making a point and not telling us what will actually happen OR is vanilla the new plan? Can you win the physical matchup with versatile players? Rather than dominant, prototypical players?

I would think you either go versatile and throw multiple looks at them by mixing and matching players versus what you think the O will actually do.

Or you would go vanilla and get the exact players the scheme calls for and win the battles one on one.

I agree: you are very confused. But I don't think I can help.

[esoxx]

So, excuses. Sounds about right. College sucks, just that everyone else sucks more. TT didn't feel like paying college. TT didn't resign wells, does that mean that someone beat him out for the position? EDS walked, did he get beat out? Your idea of getting beat out is kinda weird. Jennings got beat out for his job?

Look, I am not backing any poster in this debate, but Daryn College while not an all pro, was/is a solid pro. To argue otherwise is to stare facts in the face and deny them. The guy missed virtually no starts, played 3 positions at times (although only 2 of them well), and played against stud DT's in the NFC north. He won some he lost some. He won't be in the hall of fame. He isn't as good as sitton. There are however most teams that would take him at the right price. If he were a FA right now he would start again somewhere. He likely will get 10-14 seasons as an NFL starter when its said and done....what isn't solid about that?

Actually, Colledge is a FA right now as Arizona cut him loose this off-season and he remains unsigned. I could see a team signing him for OL depth but his starting days are likely over.

[Guiness]

Package is the player lineup. Oakie-Base, Nickel, Big Nickel, Run-Stopping Hippo Nickel, Dime, etc.

Options are the scheme you can run with that personnel on the field. Options and tweaks (adjustments based on opponent personnel or tendency) are generally where the complexities manifest themselves and mark the difference between the preseason and the regular season.

However, as LeBeau as said of his valuing veterans, his baseline D installation is more than most young players can handle.

That's the way I see it too - several players who are versatile in the way they line up. Also makes it harder for offenses to find matchup problem an exploit it. You've got Neal and Peppers who can play with a hand in the dirt or standing up, and Daniels who I think is stout enough (290lbs at 6') to be a play in a situation where they stand Peppers up and are left with only 2 DL. One player who's role I'm not sure of in all this is Datone Jones.

[pbmax]

Actually, Colledge is a FA right now as Arizona cut him loose this off-season and he remains unsigned. I could see a team signing him for OL depth but his starting days are likely over.

Yes, they let him go after year 3 of his 5 year deal.

But he was owed a significant wad of cash. He might still get starter reps somewhere for less.

[Just Jeff]

Sounds like his 10-14 years in the NFL might be nearing an end.

[Patler]

He is 32, with 8 years in the league. He was a somewhat older rookie. A lot of NFL careers end around then. Chad Clifton talked about his desire to make it to 10 years as a player, because so few really do.

For Colledge it might all depend on whether he wants to play badly enough to take a relatively cheap contract somewhere.

[Fritz]

Had Bulaga not gotten hurt so often and had Sherrod not broken his leg then had a voodoo doc operate, we'd have a better idea right now about how good Thompson really is at drafting offensive linemen.

[mraynrand]

Had Bulaga not gotten hurt so often and had Sherrod not broken his leg then had a voodoo doc operate, we'd have a better idea right now about how good Thompson really is at drafting offensive linemen.

it ain't great, but the guys he spent high picks on got hurt, so your point is reasonable. What the hell is wrong with you, being reasonable on this forum?

[Guiness]

it ain't great, but the guys he spent high picks on got hurt, so your point is reasonable. What the hell is wrong with you, being reasonable on this forum?

Lord knows. Didn't expect it out of the likes of him.

How much do we know about Sherrod's botched surgery? It was an emergency surgery done in KC, by a doctor associated with the Chiefs, and for some reason, it took them a long time to figure out there was a problem, right? It wasn't an infection/staph problem I don't think.

[mraynrand]

Lord knows. Didn't expect it out of the likes of him.

How much do we know about Sherrod's botched surgery? It was an emergency surgery done in KC, by a doctor associated with the Chiefs, and for some reason, it took them a long time to figure out there was a problem, right? It wasn't an infection/staph problem I don't think.

It appeared to be a malunion brought about by an improper fixation. They had to go back and do a revision. I'd sue the KC quack if I were Sherrod. There are bad docs out there and they need to be driven away from performing surgeries for which they are not adequately trained or experienced.

[Fritz]

it ain't great, but the guys he spent high picks on got hurt, so your point is reasonable. What the hell is wrong with you, being reasonable on this forum?

I like to play against type once in a while.

[pbmax]

Run To Win!

[pbmax]

Ted strikes again:

Eagles keep offensive line intact with Allen Barbre deal (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/03/eagles-keep-offensive-line-intact-with-allen-barbre-deal/)

[Zool]

Look it's pretty simple. You're either all-pro or you're shit. Thompson has only drafted 1 all-pro lineman so the rest are shit and will always be shit. If the team isn't filled with 22 all-pros who never get injured and win the superbowl, the season is worthless and the management is also shit.

It's a pretty easy formula.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 3h
#Packers No. 1 offensive line without Sitton, left to right: Bakhtiari LT, Barclay LG, Tretter C, Lang RG, Bulaga RT.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3h
Andy Mulumba rumbles around the edge on Sherrod at LT, pushing Flynn out of pocket

NOOOOOOO!!

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 2h
MM on Sherrod: As strong as he's seen him. Needs padded work. Feels more comfortable on left side.

MIXED BAG TODAY. IS BULAGA THE STARTER AND LT. BARCLAY THE 1ST BACKUP AT GUARD?

[mraynrand]

Ted strikes again:

Eagles keep offensive line intact with Allen Barbre deal (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/03/eagles-keep-offensive-line-intact-with-allen-barbre-deal/)

Chip Kelley: "When Jason Peters went down in Green Bay last season, Allen jumped right in and our offense didn’t miss a beat. But of course, we were playing against Dunderdummy, so no one was all that worried anyway."

[mraynrand]

Look it's pretty simple. You're either all-pro or you're shit. Thompson has only drafted 1 all-pro lineman so the rest are shit and will always be shit. If the team isn't filled with 22 all-pros who never get injured and win the superbowl, the season is worthless and the management is also shit.

It's a pretty easy formula.

Glad to see you're finally catching on.

[MadScientist]

Colt wasn't at the OTA's today. That's not a good sign at all. Maybe he didn't want to face more media questions, but it's to his advantage to be out in front of the fans.

I hope he doesn't miss another one.

[Guiness]

MIXED BAG TODAY. IS BULAGA THE STARTER AND LT. BARCLAY THE 1ST BACKUP AT GUARD?

Don't forget that Bulaga was anointed the starter at LT last season before he went down. I'm not sure enough has happened to change that. It might come down to a question of how happy were they with Bak, with Sherrod the dark horse.

[Joemailman]

Colt wasn't at the OTA's today. That's not a good sign at all. Maybe he didn't want to face more media questions, but it's to his advantage to be out in front of the fans.

I hope he doesn't miss another one.


“I’m fully aware of where he is and I expect him back tomorrow,” McCarthy said of Lyerla.

Not sure what that means. Quarless and Bostick weren't there either, But I guess for now it's a bigger deal if Lyerla isn't there.

[Guiness]

Not sure what that means. Quarless and Bostick weren't there either, But I guess for now it's a bigger deal if Lyerla isn't there.

Yes, I'd say it's notable, he well deserves the short leash I'm betting he's on. He also hasn't been on the field in a while (when did he leave Oregon?) so you'd think he wants as much time to catch up as possible. Sounds like it was a planned absence and MM was ok with it though.

[Brandon494]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 3h
#Packers No. 1 offensive line without Sitton, left to right: Bakhtiari LT, Barclay LG, Tretter C, Lang RG, Bulaga RT.

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3h
Andy Mulumba rumbles around the edge on Sherrod at LT, pushing Flynn out of pocket

NOOOOOOO!!

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 2h
MM on Sherrod: As strong as he's seen him. Needs padded work. Feels more comfortable on left side.

MIXED BAG TODAY. IS BULAGA THE STARTER AND LT. BARCLAY THE 1ST BACKUP AT GUARD?

They will keep Bakhtiari at LT and Buluga at RT. Both players are more comfortable at those positions and Buluga contract is ending, LTs make more then RTs.

Bakh, Sitton, Tretter, Lang, Buluga will be the starting O-line with Sherrod backing up the tackles, Barclay backing up the guards, and Linsley backing up at center. I could also see them going with Barclay at RT over Sherrod depending how training camp goes.

[pbmax]

Don't want Bach at LT if it can be avoided. Would be OK if he improved pass blocking. Prefer Sherrod win it outright.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 5h
McCarthy made it clear Colt Lyerla's absence today isn't an issue. "I’m fully aware of where he is and I expect him back tomorrow." #Packers

LET'S HOPE THAT'S THE GOOD KIND OF KNOW AND NOT THE PARENTAL "KNOW'

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy will be here shortly. No Rolle, Franklin, Lyerla, Matthews, Perry, Quarless, Bostick, Raji, Worthy.

ROLLE? PLEASE TELL ME PERRY IS A HEALTHY SCRATCH.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h
Crosby went 7-of-8 on FGs into a stiff wind. Missed right from 47.

I'LL BET IT WAS ON THE RIGHT HASH MARK TOO


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpOdxe1CQAE_0SQ.jpg:large

THAT'S FOR RAND'S COLLETION OF M3 DERP FACE

[pbmax]

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
Mike McCarthy on DuJuan Harris: looks like back to full strength. Last week knocked rust off, competing to play like other guys. ...

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
... history shows never have enough good players especially at running back.

MIKE HAS MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS FROM LAST OFFSEASON WHEN HE WOULD LOOK AT THE BINDER OF NEW PLAYS FOR HARRIS, THEN SEE HIS EMPTY LOCKER AND BURST INTO TEARS

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on injured guys back this year: lot of guys back, lot guys feel they have something to prove. like what seen so far but today sloppy ...

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
... presnap penalties high. ability to work with crowd noise and music can only help.

PETE REALLY WANTS TWITTER TO BE 280 CHARACTERS LONG

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h
Bulaga is making progress in comeback, MM says. He needs training camp's "heavy lifting."

INJURED PLAYER, EXTRA STRESS ON INJURY \= GOOD REHAB PLAN

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 7h
McCarthy says question of whether Bulaga is 100% is a question for him.

WOULD BE FUNNY IF HIM WERE WILDE, DICTATORIAL IF HIM WERE M3, BUT I BET HE MEANS IT'S BRYAN'S CALL

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on if Catapult injury data work has started: rules for training team different than used to be, we're doing everything we can, great resources, doing everything we can.

THANK GOD THEY JUST DIDN'T CHANGE THE WEIGHTS IN THE WEIGHT ROOM. NOW WHAT'S CATAPAULT? SOUNDS MEDIEVAL AND COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h
Tolzien has "gotten a lot better," MM says. Comfortable with language, footwork, mechanics. "Tireless worker."

I WOULD SETTLE FOR EFFECTIVE WORKER AT THIS POINT. TIRELESS HAS NOT HELPED AS MUCH AS PEOPLE WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 7h
MM: Sitton established at LG, Bakhtiari at LT. David has gotten stronger. Josh is an All-Pro. Barclay is a starter, has opp to compete.

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on where Barclay plays: to me he's a starting player, earned opportunity to compete for starting postiion, he n bulaga will compete at RT

ITS BEEN A TON OF FUN JOSH. I WILL MISS YOUR TWITTER ACCOUNT.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 7h
MM: Barclay can play all 5 positions. Right now focus at C is on 3 guys who have played it before.

BARCLAY > MIKE FLANAGAN?

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h
MM on Sherrod: As strong as he's seen him. Needs padded work. Feels more comfortable on left side.

C'MON LEFT TACKLE OF THE FUTURE! NO MORE WHIFFS ON MULUMBA

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on Tretter late last year: made impression on everyone. strong hands, extremely intelligent.

LOCKER ROOM LAWYER. IVY LEAGUE POPPED COLLAR. MR. SMARTY PANTS. "TELL ME MR. IVY, WHAT LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS DID YOU FORGET WHEN YOU FAILED TO BLOCK THAT TACKLE?

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on Adams: good to have him back, away last week. looks good, comfortable. 4 practices he's been at 2. he's what we saw at Fresno.

LOT'S OF STRIP MALLS AND NAIL SALONS?

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on Matthews not practicing (thumb): week to week, progressing, don't have handle on whether he'll practice in offseason.

NOTE TO MIKE: FIND THIS OUT! PEPPERS HAS GONE TO HIS HEAD

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on WR Chis Harper: really improved. ran post today hit in stride, kind of explosiveness he has. talented, powerful player.

I PREDICT JUSTIN HARRELL WILL POST 3.000 LOVE MESSAGE IN THE NEXT 48 HOURS

[mraynrand]

THAT'S FOR RAND'S COLLETION OF M3 DERP FACE

I got rid of that collection; but I'm sure the NSA has a copy. Pro tip: Since the NSA has all our computer records, you really don't need to pay for carbonite back up. That would be redundant.

[Brandon494]

Don't want Bach at LT if it can be avoided. Would be OK if he improved pass blocking. Prefer Sherrod win it outright.

I don't see Sherrod winning the starting job over him. For a 4th rounder who left school early I think he played better than expected at LT. He was going against some of the best pass rushers in the league. A year learning the system and adding 10 pounds this off season I think hes pretty much a lock to start at LT and see him there for the next few years.

[pbmax]

I don't see Sherrod winning the starting job over him. For a 4th rounder who left school early I think he played better than expected at LT. He was going against some of the best pass rushers in the league. A year learning the system and adding 10 pounds this off season I think hes pretty much a lock to start at LT and see him there for the next few years.

Its all about wingspan my friend. Sherrod could wrap his arms around a cement truck.

Bach could barely hang on to a Beetle.

/actually unsure about Bach's arms and hands.

[mraynrand]

Wingspan doesn't matter so much if the footwork isn't there. The best have both

BTW: 85 versus 81 ¾-inch wingspans. 3 and 1/4 inches can make a world of difference, and not just in pass pro.

[smuggler]

I thought the joke about Bahktiari was how lanky he was... all legs and arms. No torso.

[Patler]

MM: Sitton established at LG, Bakhtiari at LT. David has gotten stronger. Josh is an All-Pro. Barclay is a starter, has opp to compete.

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 7h
MM on where Barclay plays: to me he's a starting player, earned opportunity to compete for starting postiion, he n bulaga will compete at RT


Barclay is a starting player? Bulaga will compete at RT? Sounds like they have tired of Bulaga's injuries, and are ready to move on without him. A huge difference from a year ago when he was anointed the starting LT because he was said to be the lines best pass blocker.

[Brandon494]

Barclay is a starting player? Bulaga will compete at RT? Sounds like they have tired of Bulaga's injuries, and are ready to move on without him. A huge difference from a year ago when he was anointed the starting LT because he was said to be the lines best pass blocker.

I didn't get that at all, really can't read too much into 2nd day of OTAs. MM just wants the guys to compete since Barclay is the top backup but no way does he beat Bulaga for the starting job.

[Patler]

I didn't get that at all, really can't read too much into 2nd day of OTAs. MM just wants the guys to compete since Barclay is the top backup but no way does he beat Bulaga for the starting job.

I wasn't suggesting that Barclay ultimately will win the job, just the significant change from last year in MM's off the cuff comment about how he views Bulaga. No reference to him being a returning starter. No reference to him being the best pass blocker, which is what MM said numerous times last year. He almost makes it sound like it is Barclay's job to lose, and Bulaga can "compete".

I fully expect Bulaga will start (assuming he is still healthy enough to by the end of TC). In fact, I'm not convinced Bulaga will not end up at LT, because while Bakhtiari was surprising for a 4th round rookie, he wasn't anything special as an LT.

In my fantasy dreams, I still see Bulaga and Sherrod as the starters; but my rational brain tells me the odds are against it. GB will be lucky if one sticks around for a career as a starter in GB.

[bobblehead]

Yes the reason that EDS walked is because we didn't want him back, which is an impolite way fo saying he got beat, by X. Jennings didn't come back, because we didn[t want him back, which is an impolite way of saying he got beat by X. EDS was particularly pointed in that we don't have a center in the roster who has taken a snap and he still wasn't wanted back, even as insurance. You could say he was beat or you can say he was bad, but he's not back, so TT made one of those conclusions. You can say Colledge was beat or you can say he was bad, but he's didn't get resigned by the GM who is imfamous for signing he own picks, so it was one of them.

Now I don't have a horse in this race as Colledge is old news and I'm not saying that he was a bum, but he's just a servicable guard who has stayed healthy. He'll never be and never was a stud (solid). Just a guy.

The better debate is would you rather have a stud who plays 10 games a year or a servicable guy who can play 15-16 for 10-14 years. Not sure I would disagree with taking Colledge over Bulaga in that one.

so, when Reggie White left Philly for GB, who "beat him out"?

[pbmax]

I didn't get that at all, really can't read too much into 2nd day of OTAs. MM just wants the guys to compete since Barclay is the top backup but no way does he beat Bulaga for the starting job.

Its a fair point. One of the beat guys on the radio said yesterday that last year, if you went by OTAs, Alex Green was the starting tailback.

[denverYooper]

I got rid of that collection; but I'm sure the NSA has a copy. Pro tip: Since the NSA has all our computer records, you really don't need to pay for carbonite back up. That would be redundant.

I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record.

[denverYooper]

I didn't get that at all, really can't read too much into 2nd day of OTAs. MM just wants the guys to compete since Barclay is the top backup but no way does he beat Bulaga for the starting job.

MM's MO all the way. Barclay finished the season as a the starting RT, so he's posted up on the top spot to begin OTAs.

[Fritz]

Shit...so why is Perry out? And Worthy? What the hell? That 2012 draft class is looking beleaguered by injury, again. Or still.

Sherrod as starting left tackle, baby!

[Joemailman]

Shit...so why is Perry out? And Worthy? What the hell? That 2012 draft class is looking beleaguered by injury, again. Or still.

Sherrod as starting left tackle, baby!

Don't know about Perry. Worthy has been out since his grandmother was accidentally shot and killed by his grandfather. http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26893-Jerel-Worthy-Family-Tragedy

[pbmax]

I think Perry had to get his ankle healed up, but I don't remember his status or whether he had surgery.

I also suspect he has a lingering hamstring issue just to fit in.

[Just Jeff]

so, when Reggie White left Philly for GB, who "beat him out"?

Yes, I forgot about that. Very similar situations. Also don't forget Manning leaving Indy.

[Joemailman]

I think Perry had to get his ankle healed up, but I don't remember his status or whether he had surgery.

I also suspect he has a lingering hamstring issue just to fit in.

Perry had a bad ankle? Wasn't he the only healthy OLB Packers had in the 4th quarter against SF?

[Zool]

Yes, I forgot about that. Very similar situations. Also don't forget Manning leaving Indy.

They cut Manning because he was owed a $28m balloon payment. Completely different situations.

[pbmax]

They cut Manning because he was owed a $28m balloon payment. Completely different situations.

I think it was his foot that was bothering him, rather than his ankle. Or have I confused my injury-seasons again?

Didn't he aggravate something and suffer through it most of the year after his PUP stay?

[pbmax]

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/tag/_/name/nick-perry


5. Another new guy: With B.J. Raji absent from Tuesday's practice, Letroy Guion took most of the reps at nose tackle with the starters. Guion, the former Minnesota Vikings defensive lineman who signed a one-year deal with the Packers this offseason, gives the Packers a taller option at the spot. He has two inches on the 6-2 Raji.

Also, Datone Jones and Daniels were the pass rush DTs at practice this week.

[Just Jeff]

They cut Manning because he was owed a $28m balloon payment. Completely different situations.

I know, I was being sarcastic. The poster I was responding to was comparing EDS leaving, without even getting an offer, to Reggie White leaving as the hottest FA in the league that year. That was a completely different situation too.

[pbmax]

Ha! Not insane yet!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/14/report-nick-perry-has-broken-foot/

[Zool]

Ha! Not insane yet!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/14/report-nick-perry-has-broken-foot/

Now I remember. It looked like he was turning it on from Clay's side and boom...foot injury.

[run pMc]

Now I remember. It looked like he was turning it on from Clay's side and boom...foot injury.

Perry came back form the foot injury before it was fully healed and didn't have the same burst. He also got exposed dropping into coverage.
I seem to recall both Perry and Mulumba limping down the field in vain after 49ers in the playoffs, but that might have just been a nightmare.

If he can stay healthy Perry could be a real surprise this year. He will obviously play hurt, is a physical freak and played well at times last season.

[woodbuck27]

Perry came back form the foot injury before it was fully healed and didn't have the same burst. He also got exposed dropping into coverage.
I seem to recall both Perry and Mulumba limping down the field in vain after 49ers in the playoffs, but that might have just been a nightmare.

If he can stay healthy Perry could be a real surprise this year. He will obviously play hurt, is a physical freak and played well at times last season.

The battles at the linebacker position will be interesting.

Is Nick Perry. "the forgotten man"?

What are the Packers going to do with him? Dom Capers!?

Something has to soon happen BIG for Nick Perry this season. Will this 1st Round Draft pick leave Green Bay when he's eligible to do so?

[pittstang5]

The battles at the linebacker position will be interesting.

Is Nick Perry. "the forgotten man"?

What are the Packers going to do with him? Dom Capers!?

Something has to soon happen BIG for Nick Perry this season. Will this 1st Round Draft pick leave Green Bay when he's eligible to do so?

I'm done with Perry. He's an F'n c@ock tease. Trade him to a 4-3 team. Problem is, he's shown nothing, so he's worthless.

Trade Burnett too. Richardson and Dix for Starting Safeties 2014.

[red]

I don't see Sherrod winning the starting job over him. For a 4th rounder who left school early I think he played better than expected at LT. He was going against some of the best pass rushers in the league. A year learning the system and adding 10 pounds this off season I think hes pretty much a lock to start at LT and see him there for the next few years.

he also rated pretty poorly i believe by PFF. someone posted the numbers towards the end of last year and i think bach was by far our worst rated lineman

[red]

Barclay is a starting player? Bulaga will compete at RT? Sounds like they have tired of Bulaga's injuries, and are ready to move on without him. A huge difference from a year ago when he was anointed the starting LT because he was said to be the lines best pass blocker.

thats how i read it too

the bulaga experiment might be nearing its end

[Joemailman]

thats how i read it too

the bulaga experiment might be nearing its end

I doubt it. MM is not just going to just hand the job to a guy who's missed the last year and a half, but he knows a healthy Bulaga would be a better player than Barclay. Remember, Alex Green was the starting RB at this time last year.

[bobblehead]

Yes, I forgot about that. Very similar situations. Also don't forget Manning leaving Indy.

He was clearly beat out by Luck though...er bad luck as in his neck was fucked.

[bobblehead]

They cut Manning because he was owed a $28m balloon payment. Completely different situations.

We are just foolish bantering at this point. We both know where the other stands. I will bump this when College is starting week one for someone. I will be happier if Sherrod is starting week one for someone though.

[pbmax]

he also rated pretty poorly i believe by PFF. someone posted the numbers towards the end of last year and i think bach was by far our worst rated lineman

Wasn't it Barclay?

[smuggler]

Red is mistaken. It was Barclay who rated very low on the PFF site. Bahktiari wasn't great, either, but not bottom feeding.

[mraynrand]

They cut Manning because he was owed a $28m balloon payment.

That's an expensive balloon

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers

Seen and heard at Packers' OTA No. 3

June, 10, 2014 ... 7:30 PM ET

By: Rob Demovsky | ESPN.com

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/262630981.html


During a no-huddle period, Sean Richardson intercepted a deep Aaron Rodgers pass intended for Jarrett Boykin. It was another (very early) promising play from Richardson, who broke up a pass earlier in OTAs.


third-round pick Richard Rodgers keeps turning heads.

During one 11-on-11 segment, the former California tight end-turned-inside receiver reached back for a tipped Scott Tolzien ball, somehow kept his balance and hauled in a one-handed grab. Later on in practice, as the offense worked alone, Rodgers plucked the ball with one outstretched hand.

When the Packers took Rodgers, they raved about his natural hands. Now, everyone can see it.


“Bryan Bulaga looks good,” McCarthy said. “We’re in the OTA practices and I think our pass under pressure drill has been good so we’re getting some work there with the sets. So the individual work is what our offensive line coaches do a great job of, so he’s getting exactly what he needs. He’s stronger. He weighs a little more than he has in the past. So he’s having a heck of a spring.”


The only new addition to the injury report was WR Chris Harper, who tweaked his hamstring.

[pbmax]

From Demovsky again, see woodbuck/ESPN link above:


10. Roster move: The Packers were back at the 90-man roster limit after signing rookie linebacker Shaun Lewis of Oklahoma State. Lewis was in Green Bay last month for the Packers' rookie orientation camp as a tryout player.

[woodbuck27]

" From Demovsky again, see woodbuck/ESPN link above:


10. Roster move: The Packers were back at the 90-man roster limit after signing rookie linebacker Shaun Lewis of Oklahoma State. Lewis was in Green Bay last month for the Packers' rookie orientation camp as a tryout player. "
posted by pbmax


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=109786&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB

OLB/ILB Shaun Lewis ... 5' - 11" 226 lbs

4.8 40 yard; 225 Bench = 21; 31 " Vert.; 9' - 2 " Broad Jump

20 yard Shuttle = 4.62 Sec. and 3 Cone Drill = 7.59 Sec.

[bobblehead]

I know, I was being sarcastic. The poster I was responding to was comparing EDS leaving, without even getting an offer, to Reggie White leaving as the hottest FA in the league that year. That was a completely different situation too.

Actually, the poster was mocking you because you think a guy who has started all 128 games of his NFL career sucks.

[Just Jeff]

Actually, the poster was mocking you because you think a guy who has started all 128 games of his NFL career sucks.

Yes that is pretty close to my opinion of him, although I never said that. I made a general statement that TT has done a terrible job of drafting olinemen. I stand by that. The number of times AR has been sacked attests to that. The number of times AR has been knocked down attests to that. If you or other posters think that by tendering Colledge as an indication that TT has done a good job of drafting Olineman, I'll be more than happy with my position.

[denverYooper]

The Packers might have the best guard tandem in the league. If they get a real solid center, that interior OL will kick some serious ass for a couple-few years.

[pbmax]

Actually, the poster was mocking you because you think a guy who has started all 128 games of his NFL career sucks.

I read the Reggie White comparison as a critique of the idea that if a player leaves Team X for Team Y, that indicates one of only two possible conclusions: he was beat out by another player or that he was bad. The inference drawn here depends on cost not being a factor and that one should never plan for the future.

Long time Packer fans will recognize this kind of short sighted approach.

Its was good to hear from Coach Sherman again. I hope his retirement is going well.

[Just Jeff]

The Packers might have the best guard tandem in the league. If they get a real solid center, that interior OL will kick some serious ass for a couple-few years.

And IF my aunt Stephanie had a dick, we'd call her uncle

[mraynrand]

And IF my aunt Stephanie had a dick, we'd call her uncle


What would her uncle do?

[mraynrand]

I made a general statement that TT has done a terrible job of drafting olinemen. I stand by that. The number of times AR has been sacked attests to that. The number of times AR has been knocked down attests to that. If you or other posters think that by tendering Colledge as an indication that TT has done a good job of drafting Olineman, I'll be more than happy with my position.

seriously, your reasoning is pretty terrible. I stand by that.

1) TT doing a 'terrible job' of DRAFTING linemen. OK, so some linemen have been poor choices and others have been injured. Colledge - who is dominating this discussion - as a signature TT pick is not terrible. He is an average or below average starter. Given the number of drafted linemen who don't make teams, don't start, don't start for multiple years, the logical conclusion is that - judging just College alone, he is clearly not a terrible pick, and doesn't indicate a 'terrible' job drafting linemen.

2) Pressures and sacks on Rodgers: If they were only due to performance of the lineman, then you could say they are poor. however, a quick, superficial, cursory analysis of Packer offensive scheme can demonstrate that Rodger's sacks and pressures are due more to scheme and philosophy than to o-line performance. Note, this does not mean the linemen are 'great' or even 'above average' only that there are several other significant contributions to pressure than the quality of lineman. Just one example: The game at Seattle in 2012. The first half, the Packers played exclusively a pass oriented offense and the Seahawk's defense teed off on the Packers to the tune of what was it 7 sacks and tons of pressure. At the half, Stubby changes to a run-heavier offense and - surprise - sacks go way down. So clearly, scheme and play calling make a huge difference. Very good o-lines can look terrible when then defense knows a team is going to pass. For confirmation of this fact, see any NFL game where a team is down by several scores late in the fourth quarter.

3) Colledge as evidence TT does a 'good job' drafting linemen. This is a classic strawman argument. I'll give another perfect example: "For those of you who think Favre is the worst QB in the NFL, I tell you that you are crazy." As far as I can tell, there is no one here who thinks TT is a great evaluator of o-line talent, and few if any who are using Colledge as an example of TT doing a 'good job.' Maybe adequate or marginal or fair. But not an example of a 'good job.'

(4) Overall evaluation: See (1 and 3) above. Colledge is neither terrible nor great and thus probably serves as an example that TT does an adequate job drafting o-linemen, especially as you start to consider the rounds in which various linemen were drafted and the injuries they have suffered. If you hold TT accountable for player injuries (which I view as absurd) then his draft history looks much worse. I was going to concede that TT may place less value on o-linemen, but he has spent some top picks on tackles; things just haven't panned out. Terrible job? Certainly not. Great? Certainly not? Meh? Pretty much, with Colledge as the standard bearer, and a collection of injuries as complicating factors.

[Brandon494]

Nice article on the preview of the offensive line this year. I really like the potential of this group with Sitton being the oldest at 27, should be much improved from last season IF they can stay healthy. They are not there yet but if we can keep them together I could see them being a top 10 O-line 2-3 years down the road.

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2014/6/12/5803786/packers-2014-preview-the-state-of-the-offensive-line

[KYPack]

And IF my aunt Stephanie had a dick, we'd call her uncle

What's his 40 time?

[Just Jeff]

What's his 40 time?
.2 faster than Colledge.

[Zool]

What's his 40 time?

You'd be fast too if your transvestite niece was chasing you with her dick hanging out.

[Guiness]

You'd be fast too if your transvestite niece was chasing you with her dick hanging out.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/rofl_07a6c5_294983.jpg