The Cleft Crusty Challenge

[Cleft Crusty]

Cleft Crusty has a challenge for any of you yahoos who think this Kaepernick fellow isn't worth the cash and/or isn't a top-flight QB. Here's the challenge: Give every team the choice of keeping their QB or taking Kaepernick to start. (Note, this isn't a one game or one year deal; it's forever). Which teams will turn down that deal? Cleft can only think of a few. Give your exceptions and justify them. Cleft Crusty will check back later, grade your answers, and give the Cleft Crusty perspective. Prediction: most of you know-nothings will get this wrong.

[Just Jeff]

Well we know that the Packers can't do it, because it will put in cap hell worse than the Sherman days. We'd never be able extend/resign Cobb or Nelson.

[woodbuck27]

Cleft Crusty has a challenge for any of you yahoos who think this Kaepernick fellow isn't worth the cash and/or isn't a top-flight QB. Here's the challenge: Give every team the choice of keeping their QB or taking Kaepernick to start. (Note, this isn't a one game or one year deal; it's forever). Which teams will turn down that deal? Cleft can only think of a few. Give your exceptions and justify them. Cleft Crusty will check back later, grade your answers, and give the Cleft Crusty perspective. Prediction: most of you know-nothings will get this wrong.


" Prediction: most of you know-nothings will get this wrong." ... Cleft Crusty


Way to go in terms of killing your own thread....and how's that:

Your noted or obvious arrogance is familiar and reminds me of a certain brash member who's name isn't necessary here as his narcissistic style is obvious.

I know one team that would love to have C K in it's fold as he owns that team:

The Green Bay Packers.

The Bonus:

He grew up following the Green Bay Packers and would fit right in. The cost of having him is also by the reports a saving over the QB he owns to date:

Aaron Rodgers.

So after that how many NFL teams would refuse Colin Kaepernick?:

I say not many or less than a handful >>> too none would obviously do so.

Most probable teams to refuse that offer:

Seattle and New Orleans and I'll add Denver as Peyton Manning should have three years remaining.

Now looking at the question from an ego/loyalty standpoint.

Green Bay gets beat by the San Fran 49ers because of reasons that may be controlled. None of those reasons has to do with Colin Kaepernick being a more talented QB than Aaron Rodgers. That organization has had several solid drafts. They have a great OL and a solidly competent defense.

Other teams consider that they have drafted a franchise QB but is that QB as good or have the tools of Colin Kaepernick? That needs a closer inspection.

Pick that apart ............Cleft. I can't wait for the Cleft Crusty perspective to be revealed.

I for one am in such awe of your wisdom.

[QBME]

I can only come up with three:

Packers - Arod is on top of the league

Seattle - Wilson is scratching the surface.

Indy - Great first two years for Luck, and he's still learning.

That's it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well we know that the Packers can't do it, because it will put in cap hell worse than the Sherman days. We'd never be able extend/resign Cobb or Nelson.

Are you implying that the Packers WOULD do it - give away Aaron Rodgers to get Kaepernick? A big No Way to that! The salaries are similar enough that there wouldn't be any "cap hell". It just would be hellah stupid.

That being said, I don't mean to imply Kaepernick ain't damn good and in the short term, at least, worth the money he is getting. However, a QB who makes his living mainly with his legs is a lot more likely to have a short and often interrupted career than a super passer.

[mraynrand]

"Kap Hell" I like that

[run pMc]

GB
SEA
IND
WAS
Rodgers, Wilson, Luck and RGIII are franchise faces

NE
Brady wants to keep playing a few more years and CK couldn't run that offense like Belichick would want it done.

A few other maybes, but that's about it. How much longer does Peyton Manning play?
As bad as CLE is, I think they would take CK over Hoyer/Manziel; and CHI would take him over Cutler by a whisker because he beats GB.

The biggest thing in CKs favor is he's still early in his career and his cap hit doesn't seem Flaccolicious. I'm not convinced his career will be as decorated as say, either of the Mannings or even Brees or Rapelisberger.

If we were talking about a one or two year window (vs. rest of career) the list would be a lot different, but I understand that's part of the challenge.

[pbmax]

Redskins (argue all you want, they wouldn't do it)

Packers

New Orleans

Broncos

Seahawks

Indy

Giants (not as long as Coughlin is the HC)

Cowboys (not as long as Jerry Loves Tony)

Detroit (exactly how much more potent would the O be?)

Falcons (they still believe in Matty Ice)

Panthers (Cam Newton is CK only better)

Steelers (Rothliesberger abides)

[pittstang5]

The Cleveland Browns (Wouldn't do it)

Why? Because they're the Cleveland Browns. They wouldn't know what to do with a stud QB.

[run pMc]

ah crap I forgot about CAR and ATL. Agree they'd keep Newton and Ryan.

[woodbuck27]

ah crap I forgot about CAR and ATL. Agree they'd keep Newton and Ryan.

This is a team "Packerrats" response. :idea:

[Zool]

NFL teams are like anyone else, if things are equal, they will go with the known commodity.

GB
Detroit
Seattle
Atlanta
Giants - probably?
Carolina
New Orleans
New England
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Denver?
Cleveland - joking...sorry Cleveland

[woodbuck27]

NFL teams are like anyone else, if things are equal, they will go with the known commodity.

GB
Detroit
Seattle
Atlanta
Giants - probably?
Carolina
New Orleans
New England
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Denver?
Cleveland - joking...sorry Cleveland

Good point.

Then looking at the NFCN.....the Chicago Bears and Minnesota Vikings would jump at getting him!?

[Brandon494]

Packers- Rodgers is in his prime and top 3 QB in the league.
Panthers- Cam is younger, better passer, and just as good of a runner.
Seahawks- Russel Wilson has the make up to be the next Drew Brees and hes also mobile.
Falcons- Matt Ryan is in his prime and one of the most accurate QBs in the game.
Lions- Matthew Stafford same age and a better passer, has shown he can put up big numbers in this league.
Colts- Andrew Luck has the same value as player but Indy isn't going to get rid of a white QB for a black guy with tattoos, the fans in Indiana would riot
Steelers- Big Ben is a proven winner and still in his prime after just turning 32.
Eagles- Nick Foles, would still like to see more of him after NFL defense coordinators figure out Kelly's offense but he threw 27 TDs with only 2 INTs last season in 13 games.

Yes if I had to take a QB to build my team around I'm taking Kap over Manning, Brady, Brees, and Romo who all might be out of the league in 3 years. RGIII might be a better player but hes injury prone and Johnny Football still has to play a game even though I think he'll be a star in the league.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
Examine Kaepernick’s leverage going into talks: 1 year left, so wasn’t leaving. And how many teams would he start for? 6? Where would he go?

[Guiness]

Packers- Rodgers is in his prime and top 3 QB in the league.
Panthers- Cam is younger, better passer, and just as good of a runner.
Seahawks- Russel Wilson has the make up to be the next Drew Brees and hes also mobile.
Falcons- Matt Ryan is in his prime and one of the most accurate QBs in the game.
Lions- Matthew Stafford same age and a better passer, has shown he can put up big numbers in this league.
Colts- Andrew Luck has the same value as player but Indy isn't going to get rid of a white QB for a black guy with tattoos, the fans in Indiana would riot
Steelers- Big Ben is a proven winner and still in his prime after just turning 32.
Eagles- Nick Foles, would still like to see more of him after NFL defense coordinators figure out Kelly's offense but he threw 27 TDs with only 2 INTs last season in 13 games.

Yes if I had to take a QB to build my team around I'm taking Kap over Manning, Brady, Brees, and Romo who all might be out of the league in 3 years. RGIII might be a better player but hes injury prone and Johnny Football still has to play a game even though I think he'll be a star in the league.

Stafford is actually younger by a couple of months, but was born in a different year so likely would've started school a year after Kaepernick, yet was drafted 2 years sooner. Stafford graduated from high school early so they both started college the same year, but Kaepernick redshirted and Stafford started as a true freshman. Stafford went on to play 3 years, Kaepernick 4.

[Guiness]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h
Examine Kaepernick’s leverage going into talks: 1 year left, so wasn’t leaving. And how many teams would he start for? 6? Where would he go?

Rapoport just got added to my moron list. As an FA without compensation after next season, there is a long list of teams that would look at him. I'd say the following would be in a position both with a QB need, and, importantly, without a large financial commitment to one:

Cleveland (of course...)
St-L
Buffalo
Oakland
Minnesota
NYJ
Cincy - still haven't extended Dalton
Miami - maybe not, Tannehill had a good season last year
Houston
KC - Smith entering his last year, no extension so far (wouldn't that have been awesome???)
TB - rumour is they tried to move the incumbent, Glennon, during the draft
Arizona - the last year of Palmer's contract voids after next season (don't understand that...)

I'd add Denver as a possibility - Manning could well retire if he were to win an SB this coming year.

I didn't add Jax because I think they'd give Bortles a couple of years regardless. You could argue the same about the other two teams with first round QBs from the last draft, but that still leaves 10 teams that could well have been in a position to take a run at Kaepernick if he'd entered FA.

[Brandon494]

Stafford is actually younger by a couple of months, but was born in a different year so likely would've started school a year after Kaepernick, yet was drafted 2 years sooner. Stafford graduated from high school early so they both started college the same year, but Kaepernick redshirted and Stafford started as a true freshman. Stafford went on to play 3 years, Kaepernick 4.

LMAO they both are 26.

[texaspackerbacker]

I like Kaepernick. I see him as head and shoulders better than Griffin and Wilson, and slightly better than Newton.

The money being equal, the only ones I'd take over him are Aaron Rodgers and ....... I guess that's it. If you disregard age, the Brees. Peyton, and Brady, but no others.

Just the same, the question was, what would various teams do? And as somebody said, a lot of people prefer to stick with their own.

[red]

I like Kaepernick. I see him as head and shoulders better than Griffin and Wilson, and slightly better than Newton.

The money being equal, the only ones I'd take over him are Aaron Rodgers and ....... I guess that's it. If you disregard age, the Brees. Peyton, and Brady, but no others.

Just the same, the question was, what would various teams do? And as somebody said, a lot of people prefer to stick with their own.

please explain how kapernick is head and shoulders over wilson? other then height

wilson has won more including the big game, he has a higher completion percentage, higher QBR. thrown for more TD's. rushed for more yards, thrown for more yards

its hard to find any field where kapernick actually performs better then wilson. how he can be head and shoulders better then wilson is fucking insane.

[Cleft Crusty]

Packers- Rodgers is in his prime and top 3 QB in the league.
Panthers- Cam is younger, better passer, and just as good of a runner.
Seahawks- Russel Wilson has the make up to be the next Drew Brees and hes also mobile.
Falcons- Matt Ryan is in his prime and one of the most accurate QBs in the game.
Lions- Matthew Stafford same age and a better passer, has shown he can put up big numbers in this league.
Colts- Andrew Luck has the same value as player but Indy isn't going to get rid of a white QB for a black guy with tattoos, the fans in Indiana would riot
Steelers- Big Ben is a proven winner and still in his prime after just turning 32.
Eagles- Nick Foles, would still like to see more of him after NFL defense coordinators figure out Kelly's offense but he threw 27 TDs with only 2 INTs last season in 13 games.


This is a pretty good start. But the answer isn't who WOULD take Kap, but who SHOULD. That means that the Falcons, Steelers and YES, the Lions should take him. (I think Mike Tomlin would take Kap for Ben in a nanosecond). Sure Stifford has put up lots of numbers, but his mechanics have degraded so bad that Kap on his bad days is throwing better. Matt Ryan is in his prime, but he's prime chuck, and you'd take the filet mignon.

Despite the racist remark about Luck, there's no way Indy would give him up.

Eagles are a tough one - Kelley might salivate at the prospect of a dynamic guy like Kap, but he might see him as a young Michael Vick without the dog killings.

Kap will very likely get more accurate, understand the game better, and become a top 5 QB.

Was glad to see most people realized that NE, Denver, N.O. would take the young guy.

The shocker might be Green Bay - given Rodgers' concussion history, Stubby might be tempted to take Kap, thinking that if he could cure Rodgers of Tedford programming, he could certainly clean up Kap's game - and then stick it to SF.

Alas, these are the sort of pointless offseason speculations that keep fans from being more efficient at work...

[bobblehead]

So, if this is forever, not a one year deal then we are disregarding age.

My list of guys I would rather have than Kapernick: Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, Dalton, Rapistburger, Luck

Guys who are basically a push: Stafford, Ryan, Eli, Newton, Wilson, Foles, Cutler

Guys you could argue are a push: RGIII, Tannehill, Flacco, Romo

So he is not clearly better than 20 of the 32 QB's in the league. He is clearly inferior to 8 by my list. Equal to 8 more. That fits with my impression that he is an average NFL starting QB. Nothing wrong with that, but I think he got paid a bit much. At first glance, if he went FA, I think 10 teams would clearly want to make a play for him...of course it only takes 2.

edit: had dalton in the push and better list by mistake so my numbers are off a tad.

[Brandon494]

The shocker might be Green Bay - given Rodgers' concussion history, Stubby might be tempted to take Kap, thinking that if he could cure Rodgers of Tedford programming, he could certainly clean up Kap's game - and then stick it to SF.

I don't see that at ALL, I could see the other three teams you mentioned though.

IMO if you asked teams right now what QB would they pick to build their team around for the future I'm sure Rodgers would be the #1 name mentioned.

[Cleft Crusty]

So, if this is forever, not a one year deal then we are disregarding age.

No, the idea is that the move is for good. For example, Manning out of Denver, Kap in - for good. Elway would take that deal without having to think twice about it. Not, who would you take in their prime, especially since very likely we have yet to see Kaepernick in his prime.

[Cleft Crusty]

I don't see that at ALL.

I understand. The thinking is that internally the Packers could be very worried about Rodger's durability. That's the wild card there.

[Brandon494]

I understand. The thinking is that internally the Packers could be very worried about Rodger's durability. That's the wild card there.

True hes not Favre when it comes to durability but hes no Mike Vick either.

[Just Jeff]

I understand. The thinking is that internally the Packers could be very worried about Rodger's durability. That's the wild card there.
I don't see that at all. If they were truly worried about his durablity, they wouldn't a) have an oline that is average at best, b) continue to change the Oline on an annual basis. Regardless of the above, he really hasn't had any durability issues. He has has very few games missed and you can't hold the two Bears pouncing on him against AR.

[mraynrand]

I don't see that at all. If they were truly worried about his durablity, they wouldn't a) have an oline that is average at best, b) continue to change the Oline on an annual basis. Regardless of the above, he really hasn't had any durability issues. He has has very few games missed and you can't hold the two Bears pouncing on him against AR.

I can't speak for Cleft Crusty, but I think the Packers have tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to build a line to protect Rodgers. And clearly drafting Lacey and re-signing the Stark Plug indicate they are very serious about running the ball - which I'm pretty sure they've been clear is to keep the heat off Rodgers. Of course that's all good for the passing game, regardless of the simple fact that one more hit to the 'ol cabeza could put Rodgers out permanently. While that's true of all QBs, those who have had multiple concussions are clearly at greater risk of ending their careers - and in the current NFL environment - having extended bench time for head injury evaluation.

[pbmax]

I don't see that at all. If they were truly worried about his durablity, they wouldn't a) have an oline that is average at best, b) continue to change the Oline on an annual basis. Regardless of the above, he really hasn't had any durability issues. He has has very few games missed and you can't hold the two Bears pouncing on him against AR.

wistian, that is.

Ted also doesn't think the ILBs need improving because they are average at best. He also was never really interested in a running game and his hand was forced by Lacy failing to get picked. And he doesn't like blocking because he doesn't keep blocking TEs on the roster.

Mind reading is fun.

[gbgary]

i wouldn't put new england on that list. we all know how hoody works. brady's getting a bit old. he'd let him go for kap.

[Bretsky]

please explain how kapernick is head and shoulders over wilson? other then height

wilson has won more including the big game, he has a higher completion percentage, higher QBR. thrown for more TD's. rushed for more yards, thrown for more yards

its hard to find any field where kapernick actually performs better then wilson. how he can be head and shoulders better then wilson is fucking insane.



SHHHH; Wilson is merely a product on a system that is built around it's other players.........insert eyeroll

[Fritz]

MM has a dark, secret little place in his heart in which only he knows that he'd trade in a soon-to-be 30 year old Rodgers for a younger, more mobile Kaepernick.

[bobblehead]

No, the idea is that the move is for good. For example, Manning out of Denver, Kap in - for good. Elway would take that deal without having to think twice about it. Not, who would you take in their prime, especially since very likely we have yet to see Kaepernick in his prime.

Fine, I still stand by my rankings because Manning and Brady give you a chance to win it all every year by themselves. Kap has had the benefit of GREAT talent on the other side of the ball.