Training Camp Battles

[Joemailman]

Quarterback

Lock to start: Aaron Rodgers (pretty sure about this one)

In a perfect world, Tolzien would show enough that the Packers could just keep him and Rodgers. After what happened last year though, they will probably keep Flynn. Tolzien needs to show he can eventually be more than a #3 to make the team.

Runningback

Lock to start: Eddie Lacy

This may be the team's most settled position. James Starks and DuJuan Harris are excellent depth when healthy. John Kuhn should continue to be a fixture until someone can match his pass blocking excellence. Rajion Neal is an interesting guy but there may not be room for him.

Wide Receiver

Locks to start: Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb

Jarrett Boykin and Davante Adams should bet most of the reps at the #3 and #4 positions. That leaves Jared Abbrederis, Kevin Dorsey, Allex Gillett, Chris Harper, Jeff Janis and Myles White to fight for probably 2 spots. Myles White might be the fastest. Abbrederis' return abilities might give him an edge. The others are the type of physical receivers the Packers like. Great competition here.

Tight End

Locks to start: None

This may be the team's most unsettled position. Quarless is the only guy with much experience, but he is just marginal as a starter. Richard Rodgers was the talk of the OTA's, and seems to have a lot of natural pass catching ability. As does Brandon Bostick. Lyerla has a ton of talent, but we all know about the baggage. Ryan Taylor has been primarily a special teams player. He needs to show more. probably battling for 4 spots here.

Offensive Line

Locks to start: Josh Sitton, T. J. Lang

At Center, J.C. Tretter starts camp as the starter and will be battled by Corey Linsley and PS holdover Garth Gerhart. At LT Bakhtiari is the starter and will be battled by Derek Sherrod. AT RT it's Bulaga and Barclay. If Bulaga stays healthy and wins the job, Barclay may back up at G/T. Probably keeping 8-9 here.

Defensive Line

Lock to start: B. J. Raji

In base it's expected that Datone Jones will be at one DE. The other could be a combination of Mike Neal, Mike Daniels, Josh Boyd and Khyri Thornton. Letroy Guion and Boyd will probably battle for backup NT reps. In Nickel, Daniels should be a fixture, with a rotation of other guys at the other DT position. With the DL in flux, there's a lot to sort out here. Probably keeping 7-8 here.

Inside Linebacker

Lock to start: A.J. Hawk

Not a ton of drama here. Sam Barrington and Jamari Lattimore will try to push Brad Jones. Maybe Jake Doughty will make some noise.

Outside linebacker

Lock to start: Clay Matthews.

Julius Peppers and Nick Perry will be battling to start opposite Matthews. Mike Neal will get reps here and on the DL. Andy Mulumba could be in the mix too, although UDFA OLB's haven't fared too well in their 2nd season here. Carl Bradford and Adrian Hubbard could also be in the mix. Nate Palmer needs to improve to have a chance. Pretty good depth here when healthy.

Cornerback

Locks to start: Sam Shields, Tramon Williams

If fully recovered, Casey Hayward should have the inside track on the nickel position. If he doesn't win the starting Safety position, Micah Hyde could see time here as well. Demetri Goodson is an intriguing prospect/project. Jumal Rolle could be in the mix. And let's not forget Jarrett Bush!

Safety

Lock to start: Morgan Burnett

Looks like Ha Ha and Hyde will battle for time opposite Burnett. Richardson is an intriguing physical specimen who could be a factor if he improves in coverage. Could there be room for Jim Leonhard?

Special Teams

Same old same old (which isn't bad)

[Pugger]

Quarterback

Lock to start: Aaron Rodgers (pretty sure about this one)

In a perfect world, Tolzien would show enough that the Packers could just keep him and Rodgers. After what happened last year though, they will probably keep Flynn. Tolzien needs to show he can eventually be more than a #3 to make the team. After an entire offseason in MM's QB school Tolzien should be much better than he showed last year. He is the better athlete so the QB backup battle will be one of the better ones this summer.

Runningback

Lock to start: Eddie Lacy

This may be the team's most settled position. James Starks and DuJuan Harris are excellent depth when healthy. John Kuhn should continue to be a fixture until someone can match his pass blocking excellence. Rajion Neal is an interesting guy but there may not be room for him. Neal might be a good candidate for the PS.

Wide Receiver

Locks to start: Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb

Jarrett Boykin and Davante Adams should bet most of the reps at the #3 and #4 positions. That leaves Jared Abbrederis, Kevin Dorsey, Allex Gillett, Chris Harper, Jeff Janis and Myles White to fight for probably 2 spots. Myles White might be the fastest. Abbrederis' return abilities might give him an edge. The others are the type of physical receivers the Packers like. Great competition here.

Tight End

Locks to start: None

This may be the team's most unsettled position. Quarless is the only guy with much experience, but he is just marginal as a starter. Richard Rodgers was the talk of the OTA's, and seems to have a lot of natural pass catching ability. As does Brandon Bostick. Lyerla has a ton of talent, but we all know about the baggage. Ryan Taylor has been primarily a special teams player. He needs to show more. probably battling for 4 spots here.

Offensive Line

Locks to start: Josh Sitton, T. J. Lang

At Center, J.C. Tretter starts camp as the starter and will be battled by Corey Linsley and PS holdover Garth Gerhart. At LT Bakhtiari is the starter and will be battled by Derek Sherrod. AT RT it's Bulaga and Barclay. If Bulaga stays healthy and wins the job, Barclay may back up at G/T. Probably keeping 8-9 here. Unless he is injured again - god forbid - Bulaga is the starter at RT. Tretter will most likely win the center spot. LT might be the most intriguing if Sherrod plays like a first round pick this summer.

Defensive Line

Lock to start: B. J. Raji

In base it's expected that Datone Jones will be at one DE. The other could be a combination of Mike Neal, Mike Daniels, Josh Boyd and Khyri Thornton. Letroy Guion and Boyd will probably battle for backup NT reps. In Nickel, Daniels should be a fixture, with a rotation of other guys at the other DT position. With the DL in flux, there's a lot to sort out here. Probably keeping 7-8 here. Jones most likely is the other starter.

Inside Linebacker

Lock to start: A.J. Hawk

Not a ton of drama here. Sam Barrington and Jamari Lattimore will try to push Brad Jones. Maybe Jake Doughty will make some noise.

Outside linebacker

Lock to start: Clay Matthews.

Julius Peppers and Nick Perry will be battling to start opposite Matthews. Mike Neal will get reps here and on the DL. Andy Mulumba could be in the mix too, although UDFA OLB's haven't fared too well in their 2nd season here. Carl Bradford and Adrian Hubbard could also be in the mix. Nate Palmer needs to improve to have a chance. Pretty good depth here when healthy.

Cornerback

Locks to start: Sam Shields, Tramon Williams

If fully recovered, Casey Hayward should have the inside track on the nickel position. If he doesn't win the starting Safety position, Micah Hyde could see time here as well. Demetri Goodson is an intriguing prospect/project. Jumal Rolle could be in the mix. And let's not forget Jarrett Bush!

Safety

Lock to start: Morgan Burnett

Looks like Ha Ha and Hyde will battle for time opposite Burnett. Richardson is an intriguing physical specimen who could be a factor if he improves in coverage. Could there be room for Jim Leonhard? I have my doubts there is interest in Leonard. We have an opening on the TC roster and Leonard is still unemployed.

Special Teams

Same old same old (which isn't bad)

:-)

[Guiness]

I notice no mention of Peppers wrt the DL. You don't envision him getting any reps at DE, strictly OLB?

[Brandon494]

Tolzien is not a better athlete than Flynn, they are both average. I see Flynn winning the backup job unless an injury occurs.

[Joemailman]

I notice no mention of Peppers wrt the DL. You don't envision him getting any reps at DE, strictly OLB?

I forgot to mention Peppers on the DL. However, the Packers are going to want to watch his snap count, so if he is getting significant snaps at OLB, he may not be on the line much. How they choose to utilize Peppers will be an ongoing story.

[texaspackerbacker]

Excellent Post, Joe - your own work or copied somewhere? Most of it is pretty straight forward. a few things might be a little bit debatable, though.

Raji a lock to start, and Daniels not a lock? I hope they do some experimenting in the preseason with a base D of no fatties. I notice you left out Jerel Worthy. I'd rather see him or Boyd at NT than Raji. I doubt Guion sticks.

I'm really rooting for Tolzien to make Flynn unnecessary, but good call on that being a very visible battle.

I'm expecting Carl Bradford to get a good look at ILB and maybe beat out both Brad Jones and Lattimore.

I think Quarless is a lock or close to it at TE, and he will shine as a starter. This should be the most interesting camp battle. Behind Quarless, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them find a way to keep all five you mentioned and Stoneburner too. Of the six, I see Bostick as the most likely not to stick - assuming nothing goes wrong in a non-football way with Lyerla. I wonder how each of them will pan out on special teams.

I never liked Richardson or Banjo at Safety. Leonhard would be nice to have if he has anything left. Hyde may not be the only Corner getting reps at Safety.

Other than that, you seem to be spot on. I'll mention a long shot, though: Linsley maybe saving a roster spot by taking over as Long Snapper.

[Patler]

I see Flynn winning the backup job unless an injury occurs.

I agree, but then the question is, do you even bother to keep a third QB like Tolzien (or anyone else)? Someone on the PS, sure, but do you waste a spot on the 53 man roster for a guy you don't ever even want to have active on game days, let alone play? I think not.

Flynn could and should be the current Doug Pederson; content backing up Rodgers, making a million or so a year, for the next 5 or 6 years until the Packers begin looking for Rodgers successor. Flynn is not going to have a career as a starter, but he can have a long career as a backup in GB, if he wants it.

[Patler]

I think WR is going to be very interesting. Adams will be expected to show potential, of course. I read several reports that said Harper was looking very good, until he got Packer leg (hamstring strain). Janis is very intriguing because of the size/speed combination, and dominating performances at a lower level. Each of the others has something that makes him more interesting than a run of the mill camp body. It is so interesting, that I could see a Boykin starting the season as the #3 receiver, or not making the team.

[Patler]

I'll mention a long shot, though: Linsley maybe saving a roster spot by taking over as Long Snapper.

This is one I have wondered about since the draft, when it was mentioned that he is a very good long snapper. Most of the year end team reviews mentioned that Goode had a mediocre performance in 2013. If he doesn't look solid in TC, it could open the door for Linsley.

[Guiness]

I think WR is going to be very interesting. Adams will be expected to show potential, of course. I read several reports that said Harper was looking very good, until he got Packer leg (hamstring strain). Janis is very intriguing because of the size/speed combination, and dominating performances at a lower level. Each of the others has something that makes him more interesting than a run of the mill camp body. It is so interesting, that I could see a Boykin starting the season as the #3 receiver, or not making the team.

All I can say is...Myles White, Myles White, Myles White!!! He'll make believers out of you all yet :duel: lol

Seriously, I can't believe how little thought he is given, considering he finished the year (I think?) on the 53. It does certainly seem like he's an afterthought.

[Brandon494]

All I can say is...Myles White, Myles White, Myles White!!! He'll make believers out of you all yet :duel: lol

Seriously, I can't believe how little thought he is given, considering he finished the year (I think?) on the 53. It does certainly seem like he's an afterthought.

He has a 1% chance of making the roster.

I think we'll keep 6 WRs...

Nelson
Cobb
Boykin
Adams
Abby
Janis

[red]

sorry joe, but i do not see raji as a lock to start

he's fighting this year for a football life imo

[Brandon494]

Raji is a lock to start at NT.

[red]

Raji is a lock to start at NT.

i don't know, i can't see how a guy who could be out of the league by this time next year as a lock to start anything

i would hope we can find some serious competition for him. it obvious his fat ass needs some kind of a push from somewhere

[Brandon494]

i don't know, i can't see how a guy who could be out of the league by this time next year as a lock to start anything

i would hope we can find some serious competition for him. it obvious his fat ass needs some kind of a push from somewhere

I highly doubt Raji could be out of the league next year...maybe not with the Packers though.

[Joemailman]

i don't know, i can't see how a guy who could be out of the league by this time next year as a lock to start anything

i would hope we can find some serious competition for him. it obvious his fat ass needs some kind of a push from somewhere

The best he could get was a 1 year contract. That may be exactly the kind of kick in the ass he needed.

[red]

I highly doubt Raji could be out of the league next year...maybe not with the Packers though.

no other team offered him a deal but us

no one but us wanted him this year

IF he has anotherf year this year like his last 2 or 3, then he might get some team to sign him to a small one year deal to take a look, but it wouldn't shock me if he isn't on a team by the start of the regular season next year

[pbmax]

no other team offered him a deal but us

no one but us wanted him this year

IF he has anotherf year this year like his last 2 or 3, then he might get some team to sign him to a small one year deal to take a look, but it wouldn't shock me if he isn't on a team by the start of the regular season next year

Raji has said he had other offers. Whether that is true we may never know.

But if he isn't the starter, then the offseason plans will get dumped overboard quickly. I don't think they intended Guion or Boyd to start at Nose.

[Joemailman]

Raji has said he had other offers. Whether that is true we may never know.

But if he isn't the starter, then the offseason plans will get dumped overboard quickly. I don't think they intended Guion or Boyd to start at Nose.

What would those plans be? Raji would seem to be the only true NT on the roster unless Pennel makes the team. That's why I think Raji is a lock to start at NT unless they go out and sign someone like Pickett.

[pbmax]

What would those plans be? Raji would seem to be the only true NT on the roster unless Pennel makes the team. That's why I think Raji is a lock to start at NT unless they go out and sign someone like Pickett.

I meant the plans to have Raji start at Nose, backed up by new players. If he doesn't make the roster, then he will have had a catastrophic camp.

I don't buy that they chased him with money for 2 years because they believe that some version of red's theory is likely.

If he does get dumped, then they will go after Pickett or someone similar.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Raji got $4M for this year. If he had no other offers (which I'm certain he did), Thompson vastly overpaid.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still say you don't NEED a huge space occupier in the D Line, not for the base D anyway - just maybe for short yardage/goal line D. I'm actually rooting for Raji to snap back even though I have about as low an opinion of him as anybody. If they use him more as a penetrator and mobile NT, it could happen. Does nobody else consider Jerel Worthy even worth a comment? I see him as possibly the 3rd best D Lineman after Daniels and D. Jones.

[Brandon494]

Raji got $4M for this year. If he had no other offers (which I'm certain he did), Thompson vastly overpaid.

Ding ding ding!

[smuggler]

I couldn't possibly disagree more about Quarless shining as the starter. The way I feel about him-- he'll never be more than marginal, and he might not even make the team if some of the other guys step up.

[hoosier]

I still say you don't NEED a huge space occupier in the D Line, not for the base D anyway - just maybe for short yardage/goal line D. I'm actually rooting for Raji to snap back even though I have about as low an opinion of him as anybody. If they use him more as a penetrator and mobile NT, it could happen. Does nobody else consider Jerel Worthy even worth a comment? I see him as possibly the 3rd best D Lineman after Daniels and D. Jones.

Worthy does not have the body type needed to play nose tackle in base defense: he's too light in the pants. You want a squatter body in the middle, one that won't easily get leveraged by the center. And when he has been able to stay healthy, his performance on the field has been underwhelming. He seems to be afflicted by that double curse: an underachiever who cannot stay healthy. I think there is a decent chance he doesn't make the final roster this year.

[MadScientist]

Raji got $4M for this year. If he had no other offers (which I'm certain he did), Thompson vastly overpaid.

He possibly overpaid some, but Raji probably could have picked up an offer for a good bit above vet minimum (2-3 M) at some point. By signing him when he did, TT could worry about other limits in the roster come draft day. Without Raji, the only NT is a Viking castoff. 4M vs 3 or 2.5 won't kill the Packers or prevent them from re-signing the critical other players.

Vastly overpaying Raji would be paying him what he was offered before last year.

[red]

Ding ding ding!

we've been over this a few times already this offseason. the only person saying there was other offers was raji. with every other single free agent we heard who was interested, where they were interviewing, how much money each team offered. accept for raji, there was absolutely nothing. no talks about teams interested, no teams wanting to bring him in, nothing.

and the fact that he had to come back with his tail between his legs to the team that he had already mentally left months before, and do it for half the money he was offered months before, shows me that either he didn't have other offers, or those other offers were for far less then what we were offering

either way, to me it shows that there was little to no interest in him, and i doubt interest will grow if he has another shit year

as for him getting better because he will be a NT instead of a DE this year. i believe if you look at the stats he played about half his snaps last year at NT, and sucked

[pbmax]

as for him getting better because he will be a NT instead of a DE this year. i believe if you look at the stats he played about half his snaps last year at NT, and sucked

I agree the out of position stuff is overrated. He was a 3 tech for his base snaps and he was put there specifically to get him chances to penetrate and let Pickett absorb double teams. In nickel, he was a 3 or 4 tech. Everyone describing his as a DE is as inaccurate as calling him the team NT last year.

Now, players have been wrong before about what they do best, so Raji may have liked the 3 tech Eagle Oakie originally, but he might have come around on it.

I have no idea whether the position switch was all that ailed Raji (I doubt it). But this season will put that explanation to the test.

[texaspackerbacker]

The key is whether there will be a usage switch for Raji this season. Whether he lacked physical strength in that huge body, or whether he just lacked the motivation, the fact is, he didn't do a very good job as a space-occupier. If he is used that same way at NT this season - as was pointed out, part of his snaps last season were NT/space-occupier, we can probably expect the same crappy result. If, however, he is used differently - as an attacking mobile NT, maybe he will return to the form of his first years. I WISH the Packers would either use Raji that way or use some smaller more mobile NT. For years, I watched Jay Ratliff play that position that way for the Cowboys. There have been other NTs going all the way back to Curly Culp who didn't have that huge immobile body type, and who attacked and actually penetrated and made tackles. THAT is what we need - IMO. As I said, I see Worthy as possibly that kind of player; Boyd showed signs last season; Whatshisname, the third round pick from Mississippi seems like he might fill the bill. I'm extremely thankful that the Packers have apparently gotten away from having two fat space-occupiers in their base D. Now let's reduce it from one to zero.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm hoping that seeing the clear upgrades on D around him inspires the old Raji to come back.

[red]

Raji got $4M for this year. If he had no other offers (which I'm certain he did), Thompson vastly overpaid.

and that was the basis of my rants a couple months ago, no whispers, no rumors, nothing linking raji to any other teams other then raji saying "there were other teams"

my argument was that raji was not worth much more then the vet minimum, i can't for the life of me believe that anyone would offer him more then 2 million a year.

so IMO, yes, TT overpaid for him.

but throwing away 2 or 3 million more then i think he's worth for one year isn't the end of the world, so the argument kind of just died

now if we had signed him for 8 million a year like we originally offered, i'd be cutting my ear off right now

[HarveyWallbangers]

and that was the basis of my rants a couple months ago, no whispers, no rumors, nothing linking raji to any other teams other then raji saying "there were other teams"

my argument was that raji was not worth much more then the vet minimum, i can't for the life of me believe that anyone would offer him more then 2 million a year.

so IMO, yes, TT overpaid for him.

but throwing away 2 or 3 million more then i think he's worth for one year isn't the end of the world, so the argument kind of just died

now if we had signed him for 8 million a year like we originally offered, i'd be cutting my ear off right now

You having an opinion that he isn't worth much over the vet minimum does not make it a fact that he had no other offers and might be out of the league next year. That's all I'm pointing out. I trust Thompson wouldn't pay somebody $4M/year who had zero interest from other teams. I'm sure Raji got offers. I'm guessing some were of the 3y/$9M variety. Considering he was projected to get a pretty good chunk of change before his miserable year, he decided to roll the dice on having a good year and making more next year.

For what it's worth, after Raji signed his contract he said he got offers from 3 or 4 other teams.

[mission]

Exactly, Harv. He probably got offered a 2yr, 5mil or 3/8 something and just decided he would take more money this year, play his butt off (this is relatively obv) and then go get a real contract. Makes more sense than "no one wanted the guy".

[Pugger]

Tolzien is not a better athlete than Flynn, they are both average. I see Flynn winning the backup job unless an injury occurs.

Maybe so but do you agree Scott has the better arm?

[bobblehead]

and that was the basis of my rants a couple months ago, no whispers, no rumors, nothing linking raji to any other teams other then raji saying "there were other teams"

my argument was that raji was not worth much more then the vet minimum, i can't for the life of me believe that anyone would offer him more then 2 million a year.

so IMO, yes, TT overpaid for him.

but throwing away 2 or 3 million more then i think he's worth for one year isn't the end of the world, so the argument kind of just died

now if we had signed him for 8 million a year like we originally offered, i'd be cutting my ear off right now

Honestly, I am shocked to find out you have any ears left.

[Patler]

Exactly, Harv. He probably got offered a 2yr, 5mil or 3/8 something and just decided he would take more money this year, play his butt off (this is relatively obv) and then go get a real contract. Makes more sense than "no one wanted the guy".

If he had real, actual offers that he could have signed on the line for, we would have heard about it from the team(s), officially or unofficially. Did we even hear of him visiting anywhere? I don't remember even any rumors that he did, but there may have been.

I suspect it was more that his agent talked to some teams, the teams said they might be interested in him at 2-3M per year, but no actual offer was ever made, and he never visited there. In agent/player speak, these become "deals" he could have had.

I suspect Raji was waiting for injuries, retirements and suspensions to open up the market for experienced, but young DTs with warts on their resumes. You never know when lightening, or the reincarnation of of Al Davis might strike, and a team in panic offers a better deal than expected. GB needed to offer enough to out-weigh whatever chance Raji thought there was for that, and even allow him to save face, a bit.

[3irty1]

If he had real, actual offers that he could have signed on the line for, we would have heard about it from the team(s), officially or unofficially. Did we even hear of him visiting anywhere? I don't remember even any rumors that he did, but there may have been.

I suspect it was more that his agent talked to some teams, the teams said they might be interested in him at 2-3M per year, but no actual offer was ever made, and he never visited there. In agent/player speak, these become "deals" he could have had.

I suspect Raji was waiting for injuries, retirements and suspensions to open up the market for experienced, but young DTs with warts on their resumes. You never know when lightening, or the reincarnation of of Al Davis might strike, and a team in panic offers a better deal than expected. GB needed to offer enough to out-weigh whatever chance Raji thought there was for that, and even allow him to save face, a bit.

This is my take as well. I bet even $4m made the decision not to wait for Al Davis hard. Technically Raji is a probowler, although I think everyone but Raji has given up on him being special but he's far from being out of the league as well. I see him as a solid starter at a position where solid starter means situational.

[Zool]

Maybe so but do you agree Scott has the better arm?

Stronger arm yes, but less accurate so far, and he's kind of a statue. I'd take Flynn 10/10 times over Tolzien right now. Heady player who doesn't make many mistakes and produces when given a shot. Neither of them is going to win you a superbowl though.

[deake]

What are the chances that Ha Ha and Hyde are at safety, if not out of training camp, before season end and Burnett on the bench?

[MadScientist]

What are the chances that Ha Ha and Hyde are at safety, if not out of training camp, before season end and Burnett on the bench?

If Burnett plays like last year, pretty good (unless Richardson claims a spot). If Burnett's bad play was due to having to cover for a dog shit safety playing next to him, he will probably remain a starter, even if the others have more talent. Safety is a spot where experience and savvy more than make up for small deficiencies in athletic ability.

[bobblehead]

What are the chances that Ha Ha and Hyde are at safety, if not out of training camp, before season end and Burnett on the bench?

Nil. Mccarthy and TT love them some Burnett for some reason I never figured out. They have stuck by him and even extended him beyond what most believe was right. The odds they bench him if healthy...very slim.