Day Before First Practice, 5 Players On Injured List

[pbmax]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 1h
#Packers roster update:
PUP: Nick Perry, Mike Neal
Non-football injury: Letroy Guion, Jerel Worthy
Non-football illness: Jeff Janis

see here for more details: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26980-Official-2014-Packers-Training-Camp-Thread&p=791678&viewfull=1#post791678

[Joemailman]

Well, last year the Packers started training camp with 6 players on PUP, so the new procedures must be working!:grin:

Janis is on the non-football illness list. What kind of illness would put you on the football illness list?

[pbmax]

Well, last year the Packers started training camp with 6 players on PUP, so the new procedures must be working!:grin:

Janis is on the non-football illness list. What kind of illness would put you on the football illness list?

Well, Ebola and Bubonic Plague have both sprung up again recently.

[hoosier]

In Tampa and Cleveland I believe all staph infections are considered football related illnesses.

[Guiness]

In Tampa and Cleveland I believe all staph infections are considered football related illnesses.

Looks like Carl Nick's career is over after a combination of the infection and his turf toe injury.

[Guiness]

Well, last year the Packers started training camp with 6 players on PUP, so the new procedures must be working!:grin:

Janis is on the non-football illness list. What kind of illness would put you on the football illness list?

What did they use to call that queasy feeling defensive linemen would get the week before playing against Larry Allen? I'd call that a football related illness.

[Fritz]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 1h
#Packers roster update:
PUP: Nick Perry, Mike Neal
Non-football injury: Letroy Guion, Jerel Worthy
Non-football illness: Jeff Janis

see here for more details: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?26980-Official-2014-Packers-Training-Camp-Thread&p=791678&viewfull=1#post791678



What the hell is it with Mike Neal? Cripes, just when he seems to have his first healthy off-season ever, he goes into the crapper again? That is so damn aggravating. I imagine he is, too, but I'm really glad he only got a what, two-year deal? He is what he is, I guess.

I'm getting close to the same way of thinking about Perry. Dude is approaching bust status, in my mind in large part because McC seemed really pissed about Perry missing OTA's and such, which leads me to think Perry had some unauthorized surgery, or waited to have surgery the team recommended he have immediately at the close of the season.

This is the usual Packer start of camp already. We all know what's coming next. I won't write it, but we all know what it is.

[Rutnstrut]

What the hell is it with Mike Neal? Cripes, just when he seems to have his first healthy off-season ever, he goes into the crapper again? That is so damn aggravating. I imagine he is, too, but I'm really glad he only got a what, two-year deal? He is what he is, I guess.

I'm getting close to the same way of thinking about Perry. Dude is approaching bust status, in my mind in large part because McC seemed really pissed about Perry missing OTA's and such, which leads me to think Perry had some unauthorized surgery, or waited to have surgery the team recommended he have immediately at the close of the season.

This is the usual Packer start of camp already. We all know what's coming next. I won't write it, but we all know what it is.

Well if it is the same old, same old. it's time for a change from GM right down through all the coaches. That is IF things go as they usually do.

[pbmax]

Well if it is the same old, same old. it's time for a change from GM right down through all the coaches. That is IF things go as they usually do.

I assume you don't mean win the division and make the playoffs.

[Rutnstrut]

I assume you don't mean win the division and make the playoffs.

When does just barely making the play offs and losing badly in the first game become not good enough? The Packers win because of Rodgers and their offense despite their less than stellar defense. I am just saying that if they keep doing the same thing and hope for a different outcome, that is not going to work. Sometimes you have to shake things up to get a different outcome.

[wist43]

Our super-awesome ILB's, Brad Jones and AJ Hawk, are ready to go ;)

[Rutnstrut]

Our super-awesome ILB's, Brad Jones and AJ Hawk, are ready to go ;)

Hawk will get it done, Jones, not so much.

[pbmax]

When does just barely making the play offs and losing badly in the first game become not good enough? The Packers win because of Rodgers and their offense despite their less than stellar defense. I am just saying that if they keep doing the same thing and hope for a different outcome, that is not going to work. Sometimes you have to shake things up to get a different outcome.

Its not good enough. But its also not bad in a year the best player on the team misses eight games.

If it continues, more people will be on the way out. But it won't be Thompson or McCarthy who will go. I do think McCarthy has something to prove along with his QB about beating better defenses sitting back in Cover 2. But its a challenge they can overcome.

[Fritz]

Well if it is the same old, same old. it's time for a change from GM right down through all the coaches. That is IF things go as they usually do.

Well, if your criteria are getting into the playoffs consistently but not getting to the SB since 2010, let's see who else should be fired if their teams don't make it to the SB:

Bill Belichek
Sean Payton
Mike Tomlin

Who am I missing on this list of hot seat candidates?

[bobblehead]

When does just barely making the play offs and losing badly in the first game become not good enough? The Packers win because of Rodgers and their offense despite their less than stellar defense. I am just saying that if they keep doing the same thing and hope for a different outcome, that is not going to work. Sometimes you have to shake things up to get a different outcome.

So, winning the division nearly every year, and winning the super bowl the year we don't win the division, and a 14-2 season....is not good enough? TT and MM have been wildly successful. If you don't see that, I am speechless.

[bobblehead]

Well, if your criteria are getting into the playoffs consistently but not getting to the SB since 2010, let's see who else should be fired if their teams don't make it to the SB:

Bill Belichek
Sean Payton
Mike Tomlin

Who am I missing on this list of hot seat candidates?

Everyone except for about 3 coaches. Does SF bitch about Harbaugh because he keeps choking with no Super Bowl victory to show for his efforts....or just cuz he is a DICK!!!

[Pugger]

If not winning the SB is grounds for removal no team in the league would have any stability. This team has shown it can make it to the post season repeatedly even with a ridiculous number of injuries to key players. Isn't that the goal - to make the playoffs first? You can't win squat sitting at home in January. Yes, it is disappointing to lose in the playoffs. We all want to win it all but only one team every year is happy in February. I submit if we can stay relatively healthy this season - for a change - we'll make a lot of noise this season. Isn't that what we all want?

[Rutnstrut]

So you are all happy with the status quo on defense? Like I said, doing the same thing and expecting different results doesn't seem to be working. Yes a total house cleaning would be extreme. But just wait until years from now when they have no Rodgers and it's plain to see they didn't capitalize on the window. For Kool-aid drinkers I am always surprised that some of you don't expect more of this team. Do I expect a Superbowl win every year, no. But there is no reason this team shouldn't have went deep into the playoffs the last few years.

[pbmax]

If, while trying to assess what is wrong with the Packers D and what can be done to fix it, you limit yourself to two explanations, you will never understand the problem in the first place. It then stands a chance to be repeated after the newness of your new hires wears off. There cannot be just two possible explanations: fire everyone or drink kool-aid because everything is fine.

Capers is perfectly capable of fielding a dominating D. He has done it before. He did it with Thompson for 2 years. It looked good for half a season last year.

But there is clearly a disconnect with the depth on the team and/or its youth and the player acquisition philosophy. He might have a coach or two who are underperforming. The team seems to be capable of either playing good pass D or good run D, but never at the same time.

The best answer to this particular problem, is to do what the Steelers do well, and what every meddling owner gets wrong. Have the GM interfere with the HC and tell him to to hire for DC. The GM will only hire a DC who knows he is getting draft and develop and seems to be able to handle it. However, you will not get the best Head Coaches that way and there is always a chance your coaches will fracture.

There is a reason there is also tension between players, coaches and front office in Pittsburgh, even though they win. And there is a reason Snyder and Jones are poor team owners.

[Rutnstrut]

If, while trying to assess what is wrong with the Packers D and what can be done to fix it, you limit yourself to two explanations, you will never understand the problem in the first place. It then stands a chance to be repeated after the newness of your new hires wears off. There cannot be just two possible explanations: fire everyone or drink kool-aid because everything is fine.

Capers is perfectly capable of fielding a dominating D. He has done it before. He did it with Thompson for 2 years. It looked good for half a season last year.

But there is clearly a disconnect with the depth on the team and/or its youth and the player acquisition philosophy. He might have a coach or two who are underperforming. The team seems to be capable of either playing good pass D or good run D, but never at the same time.

The best answer to this particular problem, is to do what the Steelers do well, and what every meddling owner gets wrong. Have the GM interfere with the HC and tell him to to hire for DC. The GM will only hire a DC who knows he is getting draft and develop and seems to be able to handle it. However, you will not get the best Head Coaches that way and there is always a chance your coaches will fracture.

There is a reason there is also tension between players, coaches and front office in Pittsburgh, even though they win. And there is a reason Snyder and Jones are poor team owners.

So what do you think GB needs to do to fix it?

[pbmax]

So what do you think GB needs to do to fix it?

If I knew, I would be on staff. The idea about this defense and vets versus young players came to the forefront last year in a couple of articles.

I believe that Capers is more static than his reputation, though he does gamble on blitzing. So dreaming up a new D scheme isn't going to happen.

I think a lot of this goes back to Belichick's comments about switching back to a 4-3 from the hybrid. There is less teaching time, just as many injuries (maybe more with concussion protocol) and the salary cap takes vets away. So they can do less advanced tweaks and are looking to limit the amount of installations. So they run a 4-3 as base rather than a 3-4.

I think the confusion this offseason about less volume more player groups points in a similar direction. Less tweaks, more alignments with specific personnel. Its a giveaway to some degree by watching substitution patterns. So they need to put better players on field in best position to maximize chance to win individual battles.

wist has a point about the 3-3 nickel. It would help from an installation standpoint (less for young D lineman to learn). I just don't think they can run it without pulling Matthews out of the pass rush.

[Patler]

So you are all happy with the status quo on defense? Like I said, doing the same thing and expecting different results doesn't seem to be working. Yes a total house cleaning would be extreme. But just wait until years from now when they have no Rodgers and it's plain to see they didn't capitalize on the window. For Kool-aid drinkers I am always surprised that some of you don't expect more of this team. Do I expect a Superbowl win every year, no. But there is no reason this team shouldn't have went deep into the playoffs the last few years.

I am extremely disappointed in the performance of the Packers the last three seasons. Going into 2011, this looked like a team that had it all and was young to boot. I expected SB appearances not every year, but certainly every few, maybe a back-to-back as some other teams had. However, it is what it is, and after a season is done I don't see a need to whine and complain about it. I simply start discussing what can happen the next season. Many things have contributed to the rapid decline of the defense, most being personnel related. Their five top difference makers from 2010 all disappeared or regressed in impact significantly (Woodson, Collins, Raji, Williams and Matthews). Each was a special performer in 2010, and their decline in impact began immediately in 2011 with the loss of Collins and the declines by Williams and Woodson. Raji disappeared and Matthews can't stay on the field. That's a lot to fix, and so far none of the attempts have worked, due to both injury and disappointing performances.

I hope it bottomed out in 2013. There will be a significant turnover on D this year. Compared to 2013, 2 of the primary DL, at least 1 LB, the 3rd CB and 1 starting safety will be different. That's 5 of 12 positions. There could be another 1 or 2 as well. They don't need to change the defensive scheme as much as they need to find the players to play it well. You can win a lot of different ways,

[bobblehead]

So what do you think GB needs to do to fix it?

First stay healthy. Remember that Clay and Hayward weren't on the field against SF. Neither was Perry or Neal shortly after gametime (was shields out as well by halftime). That is a lot of 1st and 2nd round talent on the sidelines. Jolly was also a key cog who wasn't available at that point. I hate using injury as an excuse, but ffs, at some point you can't just say "next man up". Our safeties were the weak point of the team, but those worthless fuckers managed to stay healthy.

[bobblehead]

As a point of reference, and a mental exercise, we should list the D that was on the field when we needed that final stop to beat SF. Anyone care to start.

[pbmax]

Mathews, Neal and Shields were out.

[denverYooper]

Mulumba, Bush, TWill, Burnett,

[Guiness]

As a point of reference, and a mental exercise, we should list the D that was on the field when we needed that final stop to beat SF. Anyone care to start.

From the video of CK's 11 yard run,
Bush, Hyde, Richardson, T.Will, Burnett and House
Hawk, Mulumba and Perry
Daniels and D. Jones

All are clear except House, but I'm pretty sure about him.


From the play by play, the following players also made tackles on SF's final drive
B. Jones
Raji
M. Jennings (sweet god...if anyone says anything bad about Bush ever again, I'll just answer with "Jennings")

[Pugger]

First stay healthy. Remember that Clay and Hayward weren't on the field against SF. Neither was Perry or Neal shortly after gametime (was shields out as well by halftime). That is a lot of 1st and 2nd round talent on the sidelines. Jolly was also a key cog who wasn't available at that point. I hate using injury as an excuse, but ffs, at some point you can't just say "next man up". Our safeties were the weak point of the team, but those worthless fuckers managed to stay healthy.

Yes, I don't know why some folks talk down the fact of who we had out there against SF. After a while you run out of hale bodies. It was just sad to watch Mulumba limp after Kaepernick on that last drive. From what I'm hearing from TC the safeties we have now will be a major upgrade over that clown Jennings.

[run pMc]

From the video of CK's 11 yard run,
Bush, Hyde, Richardson, T.Will, Burnett and House
Hawk, Mulumba and Perry
Daniels and D. Jones

All are clear except House, but I'm pretty sure about him.


From the play by play, the following players also made tackles on SF's final drive
B. Jones
Raji
M. Jennings (sweet god...if anyone says anything bad about Bush ever again, I'll just answer with "Jennings")


LOL re: Doc Jennings vs. J.Bush.

Looking over those names, you would not call that a championship defense -- or even a strong playoff contender defense.
3 rookies (D.Jones, Mulumba, Hyde), one player a few games removed from the PUP (Richardson), Mulumba and Perry with bad wheels, etc.

no...just...no.

[pbmax]

House was definitely the sub for Shields when he was declared out.

[bobblehead]

So basically our 2 best defensive players by my estimation (shields and Mathews) were out the entire and most of the game.

[pbmax]

So basically our 2 best defensive players by my estimation (shields and Mathews) were out the entire and most of the game.

Shields was out before the game. Neal tweaked his Knee very early.

[pbmax]

Shields was out before the game. Neal tweaked his Knee very early.

Wrong: Shields hurt 2nd play of Defense.

[pbmax]

GameBook:

Defense
LDE 90 B.Raji NT 79 R.Pickett RDE 76 M.Daniels
LOLB 96 M.Neal BLB 50 A.Hawk MLB 59 B.Jones ROLB 55 A.Mulumba
LCB 38 T.Williams RCB 37 S.Shields
SS 42 M.Burnett FS 43 M.Jennings

Mulumba got the start over Perry because of the foot injury. Perry went in when Neal got hurt.

Shields was reported injured in the Game Blog at 3:46 PM. Neal is reported hurt at 3:53 PM.

[hoosier]

All of which should not cause us to forget that the defense played pretty well in that game. It was the offense that really fell short.

[pbmax]

All of which should not cause us to forget that the defense played pretty well in that game. It was the offense that really fell short.

Exactly. The underreported story of 2014 is how the offense needs to bounce back.

[Joemailman]

Exactly. The underreported story of 2014 is how the offense needs to bounce back.

Specifically how they need to improve in the red zone. With just over 6 minutes left, down 20-17, Packers had a 1st and goal at the SF 9. They had to settle for a 24 yard field goal to tie the game. Packers scored TD's 50.72 pct of the time in the red zone. That was 26th in the NFL. While those numbers are likely affected by Rodgers' absence, red zone efficiency wasn't great before he got hurt.

[run pMc]

Exactly. The underreported story of 2014 is how the offense needs to bounce back.

I'm hoping the OL improves...you'd think it almost has to, with Bulaga & Sherrod back and Newhouse gone. There were times when Lacy made that line look good by squeezing 3 yards out of a play that would've been no gain with Alex Green. A full offseason for Tolzien and signing Flynnsanity should improve the QB depth behind Rodgers, and I think they move on without Finley and get by at TE. Keeping Aaron Rodgers healthy and upright makes them the team to beat in the NFCN.

[pbmax]

I'm hoping the OL improves...you'd think it almost has to, with Bulaga & Sherrod back and Newhouse gone. There were times when Lacy made that line look good by squeezing 3 yards out of a play that would've been no gain with Alex Green. A full offseason for Tolzien and signing Flynnsanity should improve the QB depth behind Rodgers, and I think they move on without Finley and get by at TE. Keeping Aaron Rodgers healthy and upright makes them the team to beat in the NFCN.

Pass blocking must be better. When I was re-reading Game Stories for the playoff loss to the 49ers (to find when Neal and Shields were injured), each article mentioned how Rodgers got the team on the board after escaping a sure sack and finding Cobb on 4th and 2 to setup their first touchdown. Its indicative of how much of the year went against strong D lines.

[Joemailman]

Turns out Jerel Worthy had back surgery in the spring. He thinks he'll be back soon. He needs to be. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/269257471.html

[bobblehead]

Turns out Jerel Worthy had back surgery in the spring. He thinks he'll be back soon. He needs to be. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/269257471.html

Somewhere i predicted that Worthy might not make this team. I am not quite convinced they waive him, but IR or PuP or something where he doesn't crack the opening day roster seems more and more likely.

[pbmax]

Turns out Jerel Worthy had back surgery in the spring. He thinks he'll be back soon. He needs to be. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/269257471.html

That always works out well.

[Fritz]

Somewhere i predicted that Worthy might not make this team. I am not quite convinced they waive him, but IR or PuP or something where he doesn't crack the opening day roster seems more and more likely.

Given the nature of the surgery - the back! - and the plethora of defensive linemen with a legitimate shot, I would imagine that they hold him out all camp, then move him to the regular-season PUP.

Not looking good, Jerel.

[Guiness]

Turns out Jerel Worthy had back surgery in the spring. He thinks he'll be back soon. He needs to be. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/269257471.html

A few little things got out of place? Not sure I think of any back surgery as little.

[texaspackerbacker]

I predicted Worthy would be at least a decent contributor this season. Maybe I will have to rethink that, but I'm not convinced yet. Actually, there is such a thing as back surgery that isn't major. My feeling when I heard about it was a little bit of relief that his absence wasn't a matter of attitude or lifestyle i.e. drugs or something like that.