RIP Robin Williams

[wist43]

Quite the shocker... apparent suicide. Was 63 years old.

He was a left-wing nut, like most Hollywood types, but I always liked Robin Williams.

[texaspackerbacker]

Quite the shocker... apparent suicide. Was 63 years old.

He was a left-wing nut, like most Hollywood types, but I always liked Robin Williams.

Yes, he was a left wing nut. I disliked him for that, but I didn't care much for his style of comedy either. He may be missed by some, but not by me. As with most suicides, he knew his value as a person; Who are we to dispute it?

[Zool]

Wow are you some kind of fantastic "christian". Guy has a different political belief and you stop just short of celebrating his suicide. Stay classy.

[3irty1]

The guy was a bipolar addict: its much more likely the decision to end his life was because of chemical imbalance rather than a rational decision to rid the world of his politics. You're a dickhead and you should feel like a dickhead.

[wist43]

The guy was a bipolar addict: its much more likely the decision to end his life was because of chemical imbalance rather than a rational decision to rid the world of his politics. You're a dickhead and you should feel like a dickhead.

I think I had heard a few times thru the years that he had substance abuse problems... can't remember anything specific.

He was definitely wired differently - and definitely wired in general, lol...

When it comes to guys like Williams, I simply try not to watch or read any of their left-wing bullshit... it makes me not want to watch their movies, and I love watching movies. I will remember Robin Williams the performer and actor.

[Zool]

He was a reported cocaine addict for quite a while in the 80s. Super talented people always have that huge flaw.

[Freak Out]

The Fisher King. RIP.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think I had heard a few times thru the years that he had substance abuse problems... can't remember anything specific.

He was definitely wired differently - and definitely wired in general, lol...

When it comes to guys like Williams, I simply try not to watch or read any of their left-wing bullshit... it makes me not want to watch their movies, and I love watching movies. I will remember Robin Williams the performer and actor.

Yeah, the politics doesn't mean much. If a person boycotted all the left wingers, he'd avoid a lot of good movies and TV shows. However, I say again, I really didn't like Robin Williams' style of comedy - he coulda been a righty and I'd still say that hahahaha. That ain't celebrating his death, although ANYBODY who commits suicide is making a statement about their self-worth. Who are we to judge that his estimate was wrong, as a great poster recently reminded me hahahaha.

His death is being over-hyped, and I strongly suspect THAT is to a great extent because of his politics - wall to wall coverage on all the networks - you'd think it was damned Obama that offed himself hahahaha.

[3irty1]

Forget the drugs, the dude had manic depression even without them. This was diagnosed and treated and still got the better of him.

[wist43]

Yeah, the politics doesn't mean much. If a person boycotted all the left wingers, he'd avoid a lot of good movies and TV shows. However, I say again, I really didn't like Robin Williams' style of comedy - he coulda been a righty and I'd still say that hahahaha. That ain't celebrating his death, although ANYBODY who commits suicide is making a statement about their self-worth. Who are we to judge that his estimate was wrong, as a great poster recently reminded me hahahaha.

His death is being over-hyped, and I strongly suspect THAT is to a great extent because of his politics - wall to wall coverage on all the networks - you'd think it was damned Obama that offed himself hahahaha.

For someone your age, you surely lack depth... how is it that in your 67 years you haven't learned empathy??

I understand suicide b/c I understand pain, depression, addiction - doesn't matter what the source of the pain is; untreated, it is understandable how people can reach that point. I watched my beloved sister die a very painful death - at the end, she wanted to be gone, she wanted it to be over with.


People who commit suicide are usually in pain from something - be it emotional, psychological, or physical. Was Junior Seau a pussy?? Whatever possesses anyone to commit suicide - they have their reasons.

We can only hope you've never worked as a therapist ;)

[Zool]

I assume he eats therapists with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[hoosier]

I assume he eats therapists with fava beans and a nice Chianti.

Chianti? Fuck that shit, Pabst Blue Ribbon!

[texaspackerbacker]

I can empathize with a lot of things, but suicide ain't one of them. Drug use? Sorry, that ain't on the list either. Depression? Everybody has things they could let get to them; Lameasses who escape to drugs with that excuse don't deserve empathy or sympathy. Stinking therapists? They owe their existence to the creation of whole new attitudes and categories of crap like depression.

Sorry to hear about your situation, Wist. My parents both died of cancer - pretty much that way too. There was, however, no suicide there - and if I'm reading correctly, not in your family either. As for Seau, I don't know what his problem was, and frankly, I don't give a damn. He offed himself. Case closed - it's between him and God now - as that wise poster said, we aren't supposed to judge - that includes positive judging as well as negative, right?

For the record, I don't like the taste of wine or beer - but I do empathize with beer drinkers hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Lauren Bacall passes away. http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/12/showbiz/lauren-bacall-dead/

If you believe that celebrities die in 3's, who's next?

[3irty1]

I can empathize with a lot of things, but suicide ain't one of them. Drug use? Sorry, that ain't on the list either. Depression? Everybody has things they could let get to them; Lameasses who escape to drugs with that excuse don't deserve empathy or sympathy. Stinking therapists? They owe their existence to the creation of whole new attitudes and categories of crap like depression.

Sorry to hear about your situation, Wist. My parents both died of cancer - pretty much that way too. There was, however, no suicide there - and if I'm reading correctly, not in your family either. As for Seau, I don't know what his problem was, and frankly, I don't give a damn. He offed himself. Case closed - it's between him and God now - as that wise poster said, we aren't supposed to judge - that includes positive judging as well as negative, right?

For the record, I don't like the taste of wine or beer - but I do empathize with beer drinkers hahahaha.

Not that its not ridiculous to cheapen peoples mental health issues because it is, but Robin Williams wasn't just sad he had bipolar II disorder. I have no doubt we've seen him in the middle of a mania episode in his comedy--euphoric, talking quickly in a stream, thrill seeking, delusions, even hallucinations. His depressive episodes would include not just symptoms of baseless sadness but also a crushing sense of hopelessness, anxiety, disinterest, constant physical pain for no reason, even more delusions or hallucinations, even straight up psychosis. Symptoms like that and your free will is clearly compromised. Chemical reactions in your brain are calling the shots.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not that its not ridiculous to cheapen peoples mental health issues because it is, but Robin Williams wasn't just sad he had bipolar II disorder. I have no doubt we've seen him in the middle of a mania episode in his comedy--euphoric, talking quickly in a stream, thrill seeking, delusions, even hallucinations. His depressive episodes would include not just symptoms of baseless sadness but also a crushing sense of hopelessness, anxiety, disinterest, constant physical pain for no reason, even more delusions or hallucinations, even straight up psychosis. Symptoms like that and your free will is clearly compromised. Chemical reactions in your brain are calling the shots.

Yeah Right!

First of all, as an expert (?), would you not agree, all that crap could also be caused by decades of drug use (and by that, I mean hard recreational drugs, not prescriptions for whatever)?

Clinical "depression" has been conjured up by modernist psycho-therapists as a major justification for their existence and fat income. We should feel something for people with ACTUAL reasons for being depressed, but for somebody with a comfortable life and plenty of God-given talent (I include athletes, show business people, and a helluva lot of others in this) to somehow see there situation and life as depressing or not worth living? Who in the hell is gonna EMPATHIZE or sympathize with that? Certainly not me, and I would suggest the great majority of people honestly stating their feelings - the hell with all this p.c. crap.

All I ever said about Robin Williams is I don't care for his style of comedy - which you did a good job of describing, and that his suicide was way over-hyped for reason of his damn politics. John Wayne died; Bob Hope died; Both were 100 times the entertainer of Robin Williams; Both lived out their lives with honor and decency, and did not resort to drug use (to my knowledge); Both were decent America-loving people who did not share the sick politics that infests most of the media and entertainment community; And neither got a tiny fraction of the sick wall to wall coverage Williams got. The only other one treated like that was Michael Jackson - another real piece of work.

[Zool]

I do love a good "opinion stated as fact" rant. You're really on a roll there guy. Some day you'll be dead. I hope there aren't people celebrating, but if you're like this in real life, I bet there will be a few.

[3irty1]

Yeah Right!

First of all, as an expert (?), would you not agree, all that crap could also be caused by decades of drug use (and by that, I mean hard recreational drugs, not prescriptions for whatever)?

Clinical "depression" has been conjured up by modernist psycho-therapists as a major justification for their existence and fat income. We should feel something for people with ACTUAL reasons for being depressed, but for somebody with a comfortable life and plenty of God-given talent (I include athletes, show business people, and a helluva lot of others in this) to somehow see there situation and life as depressing or not worth living? Who in the hell is gonna EMPATHIZE or sympathize with that? Certainly not me, and I would suggest the great majority of people honestly stating their feelings - the hell with all this p.c. crap.

All I ever said about Robin Williams is I don't care for his style of comedy - which you did a good job of describing, and that his suicide was way over-hyped for reason of his damn politics. John Wayne died; Bob Hope died; Both were 100 times the entertainer of Robin Williams; Both lived out their lives with honor and decency, and did not resort to drug use (to my knowledge); Both were decent America-loving people who did not share the sick politics that infests most of the media and entertainment community; And neither got a tiny fraction of the sick wall to wall coverage Williams got. The only other one treated like that was Michael Jackson - another real piece of work.

No bipolar disorder is mostly genetic although made worse by environmental stuff like growing up hard. Drugs or alcohol abuse also make it worse, but bipolar disorders also make addiction worse.

John Wayne died slowly of stomach cancer, Bob Hope was 100, of course its bigger news that Williams kills himself at 63. Maybe to an old bastard like you he was just another hippy but that guy WAS our childhood. He was the Genie, he was Mrs. Doubtfire, he was Peter Pan, we even watched him in English in Dead Poets Society. The fact that he did higher brow comedy too meant we never had to outgrow him and most of us never did.

To be honest I don't even know what politics you're talking about but I don't care. I know my buddy met him in Afghanistan so I'll be you've got some common ground.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Robin was one of my favorite comedians and loved his acting. His ability to entertain and make people laugh is what is being missed. I'm not seeing a thing about politics.

[Striker]

He was one of the funniest men to ever live, with a surprising amount of dramatic depth when the role called for it. Even with his troubles with addiction (in and out of rehab several times) and depression, he never stopped giving to others (USO, Comic Relif, children's hospitals). From the sounds of it, he was a truly great man who lost a battle with his demons.

[MadtownPacker]

Nanu, nanu, thanks for all the laughs, RIP man.

[texaspackerbacker]

Robin was one of my favorite comedians and loved his acting. His ability to entertain and make people laugh is what is being missed. I'm not seeing a thing about politics.

Never mind politics. If you like his form of humor, fine, that's your opinion. Mine is that his idea of humor was kinda sick/not really funny - it was all down hill after he played Popeye.

[texaspackerbacker]

No bipolar disorder is mostly genetic although made worse by environmental stuff like growing up hard. Drugs or alcohol abuse also make it worse, but bipolar disorders also make addiction worse.

John Wayne died slowly of stomach cancer, Bob Hope was 100, of course its bigger news that Williams kills himself at 63. Maybe to an old bastard like you he was just another hippy but that guy WAS our childhood. He was the Genie, he was Mrs. Doubtfire, he was Peter Pan, we even watched him in English in Dead Poets Society. The fact that he did higher brow comedy too meant we never had to outgrow him and most of us never did.

To be honest I don't even know what politics you're talking about but I don't care. I know my buddy met him in Afghanistan so I'll be you've got some common ground.

OK, granted, he was part of your childhood, and granted, I do see him as just another hippie or at least just one of many of that variety of humor that I just don't like. I bet you liked Seinfeld too hahaha - and Cheers and Friends and a bunch of others which I ridiculed to my kids, calling them "half hour crap shows". If that's your cup of tea, then a big "whatever".

As for the political aspect, that didn't really make a difference. I also disliked the humor of Fraser/Kelsey Grammar, and I think he was a conservative hahahaha. The only way politics comes into it is with the networks and the leftist entertainment community in general building up one of their own despite his ignominious demise. I wish I could think of a comparable talent with Williams - there really are a lot of them, but very very few who are not of that same sick political persuasion. The only name that comes to mind is Tom Selleck - who, to me, is just as talented an entertainer as Williams, and about the same age range. I ask you, if he died, would they make him out to be some kind of an icon like Williams?

And I say again, ANYBODY who kills himself is basically making a statement about himself. Who are we to judge him differently than he judged himself - not worthy to go on living?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Never mind politics. If you like his form of humor, fine, that's your opinion. Mine is that his idea of humor was kinda sick/not really funny - it was all down hill after he played Popeye.

Fine. We'll also agree to disagree that John Wayne was 100 times the entertainer that Williams was. To me, John only played one kind of character. He was rather limited actually.

[3irty1]

OK, granted, he was part of your childhood, and granted, I do see him as just another hippie or at least just one of many of that variety of humor that I just don't like. I bet you liked Seinfeld too hahaha - and Cheers and Friends and a bunch of others which I ridiculed to my kids, calling them "half hour crap shows". If that's your cup of tea, then a big "whatever".

As for the political aspect, that didn't really make a difference. I also disliked the humor of Fraser/Kelsey Grammar, and I think he was a conservative hahahaha. The only way politics comes into it is with the networks and the leftist entertainment community in general building up one of their own despite his ignominious demise. I wish I could think of a comparable talent with Williams - there really are a lot of them, but very very few who are not of that same sick political persuasion. The only name that comes to mind is Tom Selleck - who, to me, is just as talented an entertainer as Williams, and about the same age range. I ask you, if he died, would they make him out to be some kind of an icon like Williams?

And I say again, ANYBODY who kills himself is basically making a statement about himself. Who are we to judge him differently than he judged himself - not worthy to go on living?

Why does it have to be "not worthy" instead of "not worth it"? I'm sure you can imagine a situation hopeless and painful enough to warrant suicide, maybe not his but at least one.

You don't think if Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Sly Stallone, Sarah Michelle Gellar, the Rock,or Adam Sandler offed themselves tomorrow it wouldn't be the only thing on TV? All those guys and gal are conservative. If the news is all about Robin Williams its because he's super famous and everyone loved him, not because of politics.

[bobblehead]

He was a reported cocaine addict for quite a while in the 80s. Super talented people always have that huge flaw.

Not to sound like tex, but that "flaw" isn't anything to do with his talents, its with the culture. I can be sad that a guy who brought me laughs and joy is gone, but the drugs, the other stuff. Those are choices. Its time for our nation to stop excusing choices and point out that they have consequences. A guy that had it all made bad choices. Science isn't positive about the chicken or the egg when it comes to drug use and bipolar disease, but we are sure that the combination usually ends this way. That should be the message. Mourn him, miss him, celebrate the good things he did, but also be honest about what drugs do to people.

[bobblehead]

I have no doubt we've seen him in the middle of a mania episode in his comedy--euphoric, talking quickly in a stream, thrill seeking, delusions, even hallucinations.

I've seen James woods do similar rants/episodes. Watch Vampires, much of which Woods ad libbed. Woods is a harsh righty though, and Tex is correct about one thing, Hollywood/media would not be quite as over the top if it was woods who died. Personally I believe that bipolar can be caused by excessive drug use. I have witnessed it. Its also scientifically proven that drug use alters the brain chemistry so it makes sense. I wish we could just be honest about that as a society and teach kids that this is the likely result of becoming addicted to drugs, and is not simply a bi product of having talent. Kids want to emulate Robin, lets not give them the convenient excuse that drug use is ok because its not your fault...your simply talented and different, you can't help it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why does it have to be "not worthy" instead of "not worth it"? I'm sure you can imagine a situation hopeless and painful enough to warrant suicide, maybe not his but at least one.

You don't think if Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis, Sly Stallone, Sarah Michelle Gellar, the Rock,or Adam Sandler offed themselves tomorrow it wouldn't be the only thing on TV? All those guys and gal are conservative. If the news is all about Robin Williams its because he's super famous and everyone loved him, not because of politics.

That's the point! Those others (none of which I've heard are conservative - Arnold certainly wasn't - but whatever) didn't and likely wouldn't. A weird known druggie? Not so much of a shock. It isn't the fact that it's big news that's bad. It's putting this guy on a pedestal. "Everybody" loved the guy? I sure didn't - which was basically my original point. He acted like a damn fool, which I, for one, don't see as funny. I never cared for Steve Martin, Jim Carrey. or going way back, Jerry Lewis or Jonathan Winters either, and arguably all of them were more talented.

As for your first line, EXACTLY! Can't you see the difference between somebody who really has a bad situation - the great majority of them in and out of show business still don't off themselves - on the one hand, and some rich arguably talented idiot who has everything to live for who judges himself and finds himself unworthy? We are suppose to empathize/sympathize with THAT? I don't think so! And don't give me any "he couldn't help it" crap.

[red]

The Fisher King. RIP.

GREAT MOVIE!!!

his death hit home hard with me.

[Zool]

Not to sound like tex, but that "flaw" isn't anything to do with his talents, its with the culture. I can be sad that a guy who brought me laughs and joy is gone, but the drugs, the other stuff. Those are choices.

It's that line of thinking that had people with asbergers and autism in mental institutions. Depression and addiction are real illnesses caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. I'm not excusing it or saying I agree with drug usage. What I am saying is look around and tell me hyper successful people aren't generally addicts to something.

[3irty1]

That's the point! Those others (none of which I've heard are conservative - Arnold certainly wasn't - but whatever) didn't and likely wouldn't. A weird known druggie? Not so much of a shock. It isn't the fact that it's big news that's bad. It's putting this guy on a pedestal. "Everybody" loved the guy? I sure didn't - which was basically my original point. He acted like a damn fool, which I, for one, don't see as funny. I never cared for Steve Martin, Jim Carrey. or going way back, Jerry Lewis or Jonathan Winters either, and arguably all of them were more talented.

As for your first line, EXACTLY! Can't you see the difference between somebody who really has a bad situation - the great majority of them in and out of show business still don't off themselves - on the one hand, and some rich arguably talented idiot who has everything to live for who judges himself and finds himself unworthy? We are suppose to empathize/sympathize with THAT? I don't think so! And don't give me any "he couldn't help it" crap.

Are you some kind of crazy alien that has never been to a funeral? What in the sam hell do you expect them to say about a super famous guy the week that he died? Every single one of those people I listed are conservative and vote exactly like you do and if any one of them died the coverage would "put them on a pedestal" because anything less is absolutely tasteless. Although clearly you missed that memo.

Yes, I can think of a worse situation than the one Robin Williams was in, oh wait, no I can't because I have no idea what its like to be Robin Williams. You're saying he judged himself unworthy of life, when I'm saying its a lot more likely that he judged himself unworthy of pain. By taking that stance not only am I righter than you, I'm also waaaayyyy less of a dick.

[texaspackerbacker]

Are you some kind of crazy alien that has never been to a funeral? What in the sam hell do you expect them to say about a super famous guy the week that he died? Every single one of those people I listed are conservative and vote exactly like you do and if any one of them died the coverage would "put them on a pedestal" because anything less is absolutely tasteless. Although clearly you missed that memo.

Yes, I can think of a worse situation than the one Robin Williams was in, oh wait, no I can't because I have no idea what its like to be Robin Williams. You're saying he judged himself unworthy of life, when I'm saying its a lot more likely that he judged himself unworthy of pain. By taking that stance not only am I righter than you, I'm also waaaayyyy less of a dick.

Are you familiar with the phrase, "assuming facts not in evidence"? Pain? Has anybody even remotely suggested that? Not that I've heard. If somebody is in excruciating pain - cancer or whatever - that can't be relieved, then maybe what you suggest has a small amount of merit - although the great majority of people even in that situation do NOT place so little value on their lives to kill themselves. Can we assume the guy was a show business icon, liked and respected, probably rich, talented in the eyes of most people? Then if he didn't have that excruciating and unrelievable pain, I simply don't see any mitigating circumstance for his offing himself. And don't say that is judging him - he did that for himself. I'm simply saying I don't buy all the empathy crap when the guy had a life like any of us could only dream about. And if you want to bring up this psycho-babble about depression, what in the hell did he have to be depressed about? Give me, give any of us his life, his situation, his money, etc., and I guarantee you, I and the great majority of us would enjoy it and not fuck it up and decide to end it.

And as for those "conservatives" you named, I don't have any evidence they aren't - except for Arnold, who has an extensive record of words and deeds as governor that says he isn't, but I'd sure like to see YOUR evidence that they are conservative.

[bobblehead]

It's that line of thinking that had people with asbergers and autism in mental institutions. Depression and addiction are real illnesses caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. I'm not excusing it or saying I agree with drug usage. What I am saying is look around and tell me hyper successful people aren't generally addicts to something.

Again, culture. I know MANY hyper successful people who are NOT addicts. GW Bush was a fall down drunk who changed his life. Not to get into politics, but like him or hate him, the man was wired to work 24/7. The alcohol and drugs weren't necessary as he eventually found out.

[bobblehead]

Are you familiar with the phrase, "assuming facts not in evidence"? Pain? Has anybody even remotely suggested that? Not that I've heard. .

Has anyone (other than you) suggested that he deemed himself not worthy of living?

[Patler]

Never mind politics. If you like his form of humor, fine, that's your opinion. Mine is that his idea of humor was kinda sick/not really funny - it was all down hill after he played Popeye.

I'm kind of confused by your comments. What form of humor was his, really? Robin Williams played humor in many, many very different ways from far out wacky to the very subtle and thoughtful. I can understand not appreciating some of his work, but he played humor in ways for just about everyone at one time or another.

[Patler]

Fine. We'll also agree to disagree that John Wayne was 100 times the entertainer that Williams was. To me, John only played one kind of character. He was rather limited actually.

Yup. John Wayne played ... John Wayne.

[Patler]

I heard today that the USO considered Robin Williams to be their modern version of Bob Hope. He would go anywhere, whenever asked. For that alone, he will be missed.

[texaspackerbacker]

Has anyone (other than you) suggested that he deemed himself not worthy of living?

I really don't pay too much attention to what others suggest. The smart ones "sound like tex" (the really smart ones don't apologize for it hahahaha). The others? Well, they are what they are.

What other logical conclusion could you come to? That comment can be applied to ANYBODY who commits suicide - the possible exception being extreme physical pain - cancer or whatever, but even then, the great majority of people see their life as more valuable than the pain, and choose not to off themselves.

[Patler]

A column than pretty-well summarizes our debate in this thread:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/radio-remarks-about-robin-williams-suicide-raise-a-tragic-question-b99330752z1-271329801.html

In part:


"I know depression is a horrible thing. But just because he's depressed, it's not a death sentence. Cancer is. ALS is. Depression is not a death sentence. You can get help for it."

He later said: "He made a choice to off himself. It's not like he had no choice in the matter."

And: "This guy had EVERYTHING. And he just blew it all off and killed himself."

There are a lot of apples and oranges in there. Williams — who had drug and alcohol problems — did in fact seek help throughout his career. According to the New York Times he "quit cold turkey" in the 1980s and was sober for two decades before falling off the wagon in 2006. He was recently treated for "severe depression," according to the story.

And on Thursday it was reported he was suffering from Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder.

Jon Lehrmann, chairman of psychiatry and behavioral medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin and associate chief of staff for mental health at the Clement A. Zablocki VA Medical Center, said he was "shocked and appalled" by a transcript of Needles' remarks.

"What is not understood or appreciated," he said in an email, is that mental illness "can affect how people think."

Williams' illness likely "affected his thinking and judgment and made him lose control and do something he would not have done if he were thinking rationally," Lehrmann said.

At the VA Lehrmann "worked with national combat heroes who are among the toughest and strongest individuals in the country" whose mental illness caused them "to think the glass is half empty, that there is no hope ... that they are worthless and that life is not worth living, or the world is a better place without them."

(Coincidentally, Williams was a frequent USO entertainer, doing six tours in 13 countries for 90,000 troops.)

Lehrmann said mental illnesses are "medical and biological and can be entirely disabling and lead to death just as a heart attack or cancer can." Depression, he said, "causes more suffering and loss ... than cancer or any other illness."

[texaspackerbacker]

A column than pretty-well summarizes our debate in this thread:

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/radio-remarks-about-robin-williams-suicide-raise-a-tragic-question-b99330752z1-271329801.html

In part:

I think I'll go with what the first guy said - Needles? is that his name? It's just common sense.

[Patler]

I don't believe it is common sense. Personally, I think Lehrmann has a better handle on the sources and consequences of depression. I think a person can be successful and otherwise healthy; yet severely depressed. I believe deep seeded feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness can force some to high levels of success which they never see in themselves.

[texaspackerbacker]

Depression is basically unreasoned negativity about oneself, one's condition, one's situation. Giving it a name has made tons of money for a LOT of people - therapists, counsellors, etc. It also has made extreme money for pharmaceutical companies. The key word here is "unreasoned". I can easily empathize/sympathize with people who have reason to feel depressed not caused by their own bad decisions - pain or hopelessness of cancer or other diseases, bad luck resulting in financial problems, etc. However, like that guy said in the article, for somebody with basically everything - a situation almost any of us can only dream of - to take it into his head to off himself - because he is "depressed"? WHY should we feel anything but disgust for that?

[Zool]

Fuck guy. Could you be more obtuse? It's a chemical issue in the brain you fuckwit. Are you pissed at people who get Alzheimer? Are the autistic unworthy? Why do I continue to reply to an ignorant brick wall. Maybe I'm insane?

[Freak Out]

LOL.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are you getting so hung up on somebody who thought nothing more of himself than to commit suicide? hahahaha So you're claiming depression is somehow a PHYSICAL problem? That may be the modernist point of view; That may be p.c. point of view; But I strongly doubt the guy had any "chemical imbalance" other than what might have been brought on by his own foibles and bad decisions - is anybody in the position to know even suggesting that? Anyway, I really don't give a damn. This whole silly discussion began with me stating my opinion - that I don't like Robin Williams' form of humor. If you guys have a different opinion, fine, this is America - you are entitled to that opinion - just as I am entitled to piss all over your beloved suicidal icon.

[MJZiggy]

Ok, I came here to read about football and pop in here only to find this bullshit. Here's the deal. I have mild chemical depression. For me it comes on every now and again and hangs around for a little while and then is gone again. Is is physical, you're damn right it is. I usually don't sense it starting, but after a few days of increasing frustration with everything, episodes of crying for no reason and feeling like the world really doesn't need me around, there's something I've learned. If I'm having this going on, I can feel it. It feels like a veil behind my eyes. It makes beautiful sunshine feel like an annoyance. It feels strange behind my sinuses. But because my depression is mild, I can recognize what it is and I can know it will go away. And sure enough, within a couple of days I can feel the veil breaking up and the light and warmer thoughts can get back in. I am lucky that way and I can't imagine how I would deal with it if it were more severe. If you don't think it affects your reasoning, I almost quit my job a few times before I figured it out. Was I thinking clearly? Hell no!

It is very common for depression sufferers to become addicted as they are self-medicating, trying anything that might make them feel better. I have, in the past taken a couple different anti-anxiety medications. I never saw any benefit from them. Some do, some don't. It's not a cure-all. If you think that Robin Williams didn't think anything of himself, you would be wrong. His self worth was evident in the way he treated people. I read an article today from someone who wanted to book an appearance with him. Williams' publicist sent a rider requiring that anyone he worked for had to hire homeless people as a condition of working with him. Any time he appeared anywhere, by the time he left, he had spoken to every camera man, sound dude, makeup person and food supplier in the place. He genuinely loved people and they loved him back. That is a worthy human being. But if you don't think the anguish involved in depression is real pain that could cause someone to do this, you clearly have never felt it. Don't judge what you don't know.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ok, I came here to read about football and pop in here only to find this bullshit. Here's the deal. I have mild chemical depression. For me it comes on every now and again and hangs around for a little while and then is gone again. Is is physical, you're damn right it is. I usually don't sense it starting, but after a few days of increasing frustration with everything, episodes of crying for no reason and feeling like the world really doesn't need me around, there's something I've learned. If I'm having this going on, I can feel it. It feels like a veil behind my eyes. It makes beautiful sunshine feel like an annoyance. It feels strange behind my sinuses. But because my depression is mild, I can recognize what it is and I can know it will go away. And sure enough, within a couple of days I can feel the veil breaking up and the light and warmer thoughts can get back in. I am lucky that way and I can't imagine how I would deal with it if it were more severe. If you don't think it affects your reasoning, I almost quit my job a few times before I figured it out. Was I thinking clearly? Hell no!

It is very common for depression sufferers to become addicted as they are self-medicating, trying anything that might make them feel better. I have, in the past taken a couple different anti-anxiety medications. I never saw any benefit from them. Some do, some don't. It's not a cure-all. If you think that Robin Williams didn't think anything of himself, you would be wrong. His self worth was evident in the way he treated people. I read an article today from someone who wanted to book an appearance with him. Williams' publicist sent a rider requiring that anyone he worked for had to hire homeless people as a condition of working with him. Any time he appeared anywhere, by the time he left, he had spoken to every camera man, sound dude, makeup person and food supplier in the place. He genuinely loved people and they loved him back. That is a worthy human being. But if you don't think the anguish involved in depression is real pain that could cause someone to do this, you clearly have never felt it. Don't judge what you don't know.

excuses excuses - lame excuses

[Patler]

excuses excuses - lame excuses

Man, you are so far off base in you beliefs about depression that you are not even in the ball park.

[texaspackerbacker]

Man, you are so far off base in you beliefs about depression that you are not even in the ball park.

Yeah, whatever. Go with the modernist shit if you want to.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who commit suicide. I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who choose to abuse drugs. They are what they are; They make their own consequences. I will stop short of saying they deserve what they get, because that would be judging hahahaha. However, opinions are like assholes - everybody's got one. This is mine; You got yours. BFD.

[Patler]

So, what is your opinion of people who have poor eyesight, are hard of hearing, are bald, have arthritis, are diabetic, schizophrenic, are left handed, etc?
Why do you assume depression is any less of a physical issue than those?

We are only scratching the surface in our understanding of brain chemistry.

[MJZiggy]

excuses excuses - lame excuses
Excuses for what exactly? For feeling a physical presence behind my face? or for my mind feeling better when that physical (did I mention physical) presence goes away. As I said, clearly you've never felt it. So if I expect you to run marathons and you tell me you can't, that's making the exact same kind of excuse. Your body physically won't let you run marathons. My body physically changes when I am going through a bout of depression. Don't judge what you don't know.

The ball park Patler? He's not even in the same part of town as the ball park. By the way, Patler's "opinion" is also backed up by a whole lot of medical science. What's yours backed up by?

[Joemailman]

In Tex's world, people who get Alzheimer's are just too fucking lazy to remember anything.

[texaspackerbacker]

Alzheimers, cancer, other true physical maladies, yeah, they deserve sympathy. A lot of people have a lot of reasons to really be depressed. The HUGE majority, however, don't stoop to committing suicide; The solid majority also don't stoop to drug addiction.

Some of you seem to totally eat up the shit about "depression" being an actually physical problem. That's modernist; That's a theory; That's unproven; If you choose to believe it, fine, that's your opinion. My opinion is that "depression" is what it was thought to be for generations: purely a psychological thing - sometimes valid to the extent that the person has some depressing crap in their life, most of the time not valid - just some rich asshole with everything to live for conjuring up problems in their head.

And it provides a convenient EXCUSE for a lot of weird and bad behaviors including but probably not limited to suicide and drug use. That's just an opinion, of course - same as the modernist crap about screwed up body chemistry or whatever are just opinion.

I really don't give a damn. This all started by me saying I didn't care for the form of humor of the guy. I was willing to let him RIP - until somebody saw fit to dig him up again hahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

So, what is your opinion of people who have poor eyesight, are hard of hearing, are bald, have arthritis, are diabetic, schizophrenic, are left handed, etc?
Why do you assume depression is any less of a physical issue than those?

We are only scratching the surface in our understanding of brain chemistry.

Why do you assume that it isn't? The stuff you mention - except for schizophrenia - clearly is physical. There's no proof the psychological crap is in the same category. Also, most of the stuff you mention is not used as an excuse for suicide, drugs, and other bad behavior.

[MJZiggy]

You clearly don't understand what physical means. A disease attacks the brain is no different than one that attacks the pancreas. The only difference is in the function of the organ being attacked.

[Patler]

Why do you assume that it isn't? The stuff you mention - except for schizophrenia - clearly is physical. There's no proof the psychological crap is in the same category. Also, most of the stuff you mention is not used as an excuse for suicide, drugs, and other bad behavior.

Actually there is a lot of proof regarding physical differences in the brains of people with a lot of mental diseases. Many of them can be helped significantly with drug therapies to correct certain imbalances. As I said, we are just beginning to understand brain chemistry. It is becoming very clear, for example, that the chemistry of the brains of schizophrenics is quite different from that of "normal" people. There also seems to be a strong hereditary link to schizophrenia. People don't chose to become schizophrenic, nor allow them selves to be schizophrenic. They can not force their brain to function normally anymore than a person with poor eyesight can force themselves to see clearly.

I think there are a lot of people who use mental disease excuses when they aren't justified, just like there are many who feign back ailments and other physical issues to scam the system. But legitimate back injuries exist as do legitimate mental diseases. People with physical pain often become drug dependent and drug abuser. People with mental diseases often self-medicate and become abusers. In neither case is the drug abuse justified, or even excused, but the reasons behind it should be understood in an effort to help those who are actual sufferers and not merely those looking for excuses. But yes, there are many drug abusers of all types who reach for any excuse they can, many without justification.

Suicide is a complex issue. To dismiss every suicide as a weak-willed person is naive.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Just beginning to scratch the surface" - your own words. You are confusing proven facts with speculation. I will give you credit for a fairly fair and balanced post, but you seem to have your finger on the scales when it comes to conclusions. I say this from the perspective of somebody without a degree om medicine, so I guess I will have to label my words as speculation too hahahaha: it seems to me in order to conclusively prove anything regarding "brain chemistry", they would have to do research on a live person that would not be possible to do.

Additionally, you have advanced from speculation about depression, which I think would be classified as a neurosis to schizophrenia, which I'm pretty sure is regarded as a psychosis - a quantumly different situation. You may very well be correct that schizophrenia has a "physical" or "brain chemistry" aspect - although even that is speculative. The original premise, however, was depression - which since long before the time of Freud was seen as some sort of lunacy. Does the person CHOOSE to be depressed? I suppose not hahahaha, but I would suggest the person indeed DOES choose how to deal with the situation: ignore/overcome/stoop to drug addiction/commit suicide.

One more thing: you seem to use the word "mental" as a synonym for "psychological". It's not.

[Patler]

No, I'm not at all confusing fact with speculation. The facts are what tests reveal, what the facts mean is what we strive to understand. We know there are differences in the brains of many people suffering disorders, the causes and effects of those differences are what we need to figure out. Some may prove relevant, some not.

I went into more depth about schizophrenia, because I understood your response to be that it is not a physical disorder. There are very strong indications that it has even hereditary causes.

To dismiss any ailment of any type based on what we thought it to be in the past is silly. Research is all about questioning past beliefs based on newer understandings.

[texaspackerbacker]

No, I'm not at all confusing fact with speculation. The facts are what tests reveal, what the facts mean is what we strive to understand. We know there are differences in the brains of many people suffering disorders, the causes and effects of those differences are what we need to figure out. Some may prove relevant, some not.

I went into more depth about schizophrenia, because I understood your response to be that it is not a physical disorder. There are very strong indications that it has even hereditary causes.

To dismiss any ailment of any type based on what we thought it to be in the past is silly. Research is all about questioning past beliefs based on newer understandings.

What was thought in the past were the "facts" at that time. What you call "facts" now, I repeat, are nothing more than modernist speculation. You said yourself, there is no way to understand the "facts" as modern research has derived them. Tell me - educate me - HOW can you do any definitive "brain chemistry" research on a living human body? What do modernist researchers/speculators have to say about neuroses - depression being one of many? Caused by things like viruses or other external factors? Or psychological - conjured up in the mind? Do those modernist types regard neuroses like depression to be completely beyond the control of the people having them? Or is it like I said, the neuroses, and particularly depression can be ignored or overcome if the person so chooses?

I've said, I don't have a medical degree or anything. I just read stuff in an analytical and sometimes critical way. What are YOUR credentials, if any? Do you have a valid claim to speculate better than I can speculate? Just asking hahahaha.

[Patler]

What was thought in the past were the "facts" at that time. What you call "facts" now, I repeat, are nothing more than modernist speculation. You said yourself, there is no way to understand the "facts" as modern research has derived them. Tell me - educate me - HOW can you do any definitive "brain chemistry" research on a living human body? What do modernist researchers/speculators have to say about neuroses - depression being one of many? Caused by things like viruses or other external factors? Or psychological - conjured up in the mind? Do those modernist types regard neuroses like depression to be completely beyond the control of the people having them? Or is it like I said, the neuroses, and particularly depression can be ignored or overcome if the person so chooses?

I've said, I don't have a medical degree or anything. I just read stuff in an analytical and sometimes critical way. What are YOUR credentials, if any? Do you have a valid claim to speculate better than I can speculate? Just asking hahahaha.

What are my credentials? For this topic, absolutely nothing, just as I have absolutely no credentials for football. However, I do have certain backgrounds and experiences allowing me to form beliefs and opinions about many things that I am willing to discuss with anyone.

One of my first degrees was in chemistry, with an emphasis in organic & biochemistry. That was many, many years ago, and I never worked as a chemist of any type. However, all of my careers since then have been in technology fields. Even now, hardly a week goes by that I am not in a lab or in contact with engineers/researchers about projects they are engaged in. I've not worked directly in any medical field, but at one time I was regularly involved for years with several leading suppliers of medical implants, joint replacement structures, etc. I remain involved with a retired physician who developed several medical tools and is bringing to the market an over-the-counter treatment he has worked on for 10+ years (I have worked with him since the start).

I have spent my adult life reading and evaluating technical reports and studies about things I know quite well. While I don't pretend to know the chemistry involved at any high level at all, when I read reports about the differences in neurotransmitter levels for schizophrenics compared to others, I have a certain rudimentary understanding even if I am not equipped to evaluate the report. When I read about investigations of hereditary connections, I understand the arguments for and against. When I read about studies showing people with certain gene mutations having a much greater likelihood of developing schizophrenia, I understand the logic. Do I know how all of the tests are taken? No, I am willing to trust the data-taking ability of research institutions of good repute. The data for a patient or subject are facts for that patient. Whether or not they are facts for the condition are yet to be determined, but there appear to be strong connections, and it is that body of knowledge that we are scratching the surface of.

I know little about psychiatry, but I know enough about the sciences to understand, even expect the likelihood of physical connections for many conditions. Heredity, lifestyle, environmental influences, etc. are probably all involved to greater and lesser degrees depending on the condition and subject, just as they are with other conditions like heart disease, obesity, cancers, etc.

In the end, why should brain disorders be much different than heart disorders, liver disorders, etc? To dismiss out of hand any physical connection is, in my opinion, naive, and to assume that every suicide is merely the result of flawed character is worse than naive.

[texaspackerbacker]

What are my credentials? For this topic, absolutely nothing, just as I have absolutely no credentials for football. However, I do have certain backgrounds and experiences allowing me to form beliefs and opinions about many things that I am willing to discuss with anyone.

One of my first degrees was in chemistry, with an emphasis in organic & biochemistry. That was many, many years ago, and I never worked as a chemist of any type. However, all of my careers since then have been in technology fields. Even now, hardly a week goes by that I am not in a lab or in contact with engineers/researchers about projects they are engaged in. I've not worked directly in any medical field, but at one time I was regularly involved for years with several leading suppliers of medical implants, joint replacement structures, etc. I remain involved with a retired physician who developed several medical tools and is bringing to the market an over-the-counter treatment he has worked on for 10+ years (I have worked with him since the start).

I have spent my adult life reading and evaluating technical reports and studies about things I know quite well. While I don't pretend to know the chemistry involved at any high level at all, when I read reports about the differences in neurotransmitter levels for schizophrenics compared to others, I have a certain rudimentary understanding even if I am not equipped to evaluate the report. When I read about investigations of hereditary connections, I understand the arguments for and against. When I read about studies showing people with certain gene mutations having a much greater likelihood of developing schizophrenia, I understand the logic. Do I know how all of the tests are taken? No, I am willing to trust the data-taking ability of research institutions of good repute. The data for a patient or subject are facts for that patient. Whether or not they are facts for the condition are yet to be determined, but there appear to be strong connections, and it is that body of knowledge that we are scratching the surface of.

I know little about psychiatry, but I know enough about the sciences to understand, even expect the likelihood of physical connections for many conditions. Heredity, lifestyle, environmental influences, etc. are probably all involved to greater and lesser degrees depending on the condition and subject, just as they are with other conditions like heart disease, obesity, cancers, etc.

In the end, why should brain disorders be much different than heart disorders, liver disorders, etc? To dismiss out of hand any physical connection is, in my opinion, naive, and to assume that every suicide is merely the result of flawed character is worse than naive.

OK, so we start out fairly equal, and I fall back on what I said: opinions are like assholes - everybody has 'em.

A lot of what you said is pretty non-controversial - as likely as not to be accurate. Yeah, likely the brain can have things go wrong just like other organs of the body. However, you aren't talking about mere neuroses when that sort of thing happens - strokes, Alzheimers, outside force trauma, etc. can cause a lot of serious shit. That is not what we are talking about at all, though, when the topic is depression or some other neurosis, which I would suggest, is nothing more than dealing with - or ignoring - what everybody goes through - the only variable factors being how rough (or not) a person's life is AND to what degree a person lets things get to him. At the beginning of this whole drawn out discussion, some people whined about cancer, poverty, various other diseases, and various other human conditions. Well, yeah! Of course those things exist, and they are cause for sympathy and maybe empathy. Even an admitted asshole like me is sympathetic about that sort of thing, but my original comeback, which I basically standby, is that the topic of this thread - so many people's beloved suicidal icon - didn't have any of that shit - oh, there was a maybe this and a maybe that, but basically, he was a rich talented guy with a life we all could only dream about, and he chose to off himself - to which I expressed a distinct lack of sympathy and absolutely no empathy. Even people with those maladies and conditions I mentioned only rarely stoop to suicide or drug addiction, but that wasn't even the case of what we were discussing in this thread. The guy had the NEUROSIS of depression - conjured up in his mind in spite of having that great life. Yet he did stoop to hard drug use, I don't know if addiction was ever proven - and suicide. We should be sympathetic or empathetic about THAT? Not me - if a bunch of the rest of you are, fine, that's your opinion/your attitude - be that way if you want to.

You seem to grasp very well the concept that yesterday's "FACTS" - actually "prevailing theories" - are today's outmoded thoughts. Yet you don't seem to grasp the concept that today's "FACTS" - the shit you and others in here eat up so heartily - is - or certainly could be - tomorrow's outmoded crap. And as ridiculous as a lot of it seems, that seems highly probable. "We don't yet understand" this or that data - duh! because it is usually extremely speculative, often conflicting, and when it goes against what the "researcher" hypothesizes in the first place, they throw it out as invalid hahahaha. BTW, you never commented on the HOW aspect of researching "brain chemistry" on a living person. I would speculate that it can't be done, but that's just ...... speculation.

[MJZiggy]

Yes, strokes, Alzheimers and outside force trauma all have something in common. They all typically cause depression. As does Parkinsons (which Williams had). Typically outmoded crap is something that has been built upon. We used to think that the best way to treat a joint injury was to keep it still. We now know that's all wrong, but no one suggests that joint injuries don't exist because the next treatment may be wrong too.

I would imagine that brain chemistry is tested exactly like liver chemistry is tested. Through blood samples, urine, tissue samples from stem cells, cadavers, etc. You can get lots of real facts and information that way. The fact that you speculate that it can't be done is very telling. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

[Patler]

...(What you wrote.)...:lol:

What we thought about most mental disorders in the past had no basis in physical scientific data, because there was little to no physical data. Today we have lots of data, and are constantly acquiring more data. The data are facts (with acknowledged collection errors usually identifiable eventually as outliers as more and more data is accumulated). but the data are facts only for the specific individuals from whom it was gathered. The "trick" is to discern from the accumulated personal facts of the individuals what personal facts are facts for the condition. For some factors, it is pretty easy to discern broad connections based on data prevalence, it is more difficult to distinguish cause and effect relationships for those factors without broad studies of the general population. That takes time. For other factors, like heredity, the cause and effect relationship is easy to see, but the mechanism by which it operates takes time to discover.

You keep asking how tests are taken. I have told you I do not know and do not care. Even if I did know, I wouldn't pretend to have the credentials to judge the validity of the method. Are you suggesting that it is merely conjured data, or if it is post mortem that it is meaningless?

By the way, to quote you:


What are YOUR credentials, if any? Do you have a valid claim to speculate better than I can speculate? Just asking hahahaha.

You haven't told us any, other than that you know how to read.

[Zool]

Debating with Tex is like sticking your dick in a meat grinder. Nothing positive is going to come of it and it's going to make you ask "WTF was I doing?" The guy still thinks you need to drill holes in people's heads to let the demons out.

[Patler]

Debating with Tex is like sticking your dick in a meat grinder. Nothing positive is going to come of it and it's going to make you ask "WTF was I doing?" The guy still thinks you need to drill holes in people's heads to let the demons out.

Is there a new way to get them out? :-)

[texaspackerbacker]

Actually, drilling holes in the head is, I believe, still recognized as the most effective treatment for sub-dural hematoma - which I suppose was diagnosed long ago as demons hahahaha.

I didn't list any credentials because I don't have any - other than reading about stuff. I said we are starting out even because you basically didn't list anything that amounts to formal credentials either.

Yes, MANY have experienced that dick in a meat grinder effect pushing wrongheaded positions against me. I will never let that wrongheadedness go uncalled.

No, Ziggy, strokes, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, and outside force trauma absolute do NOT cause depression. They may often result in it, but there is a significant shade of difference between CAUSING and RESULTING IN. A Packer victory over the Vikings CAUSES the Packers to gain a game in the standings on the Vikings. It may RESULT IN depression for people in Minnesota, but some Minnesotans don't care about the Vikings, thus not letting themselves be affected by depression. Besides, think about it, you are contradicting one of Patler's prime points - physical causation of depression, as I don't think you are arguing that those things physically CAUSE depression, are you? That would be a real stretch.

Patler, you keep talking about "data", and I keep asking, HOW are you gonna get data on "brain chemistry" of a living person - short of using something more heavy duty than a drill? I would suggest that your "data" consists of theories and speculation, and then when a contrary speculator like that guy, Lehman, mentioned early in this thread comes along, you and the modernists you choose to go with conveniently ignore his "data" i.e. speculation - which is just as likely to be valid as the crap that fits your preconceived notion. Right?

[Patler]

Got your answer for you. Depending on what it is that you are testing for in brain chemistry, they use blood tests, urine tests, and.....wait for it......wait for it.....here it comes....cerebrospinal fluid. Makes sense, doesn't it?

[texaspackerbacker]

Got your answer for you. Depending on what it is that you are testing for in brain chemistry, they use blood tests, urine tests, and.....wait for it......wait for it.....here it comes....cerebrospinal fluid. Makes sense, doesn't it?

OK, Good Answer. But be sure to let me know when somebody bleeds or pisses out evidence of depression. I never had a spinal tap, but I understand they certainly are painful enough to result in depression hahahaha.

[Zool]

http://www.localtrafficbuilder.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/head-in-the-sand.jpg

[George Cumby]

Juliet Foxtrot Charlie.

I typically give zero shits about entertainers that die too soon, but Williams made me laugh, was talented and entertaining. This one stings a little. RIP, mr. Williams.

I was going to respond to TPB is a rational way, but Fuggit, that's Patler's role.

Professionally, I've cleaned up enough suicides and fatals to last me a fucking lifetime. And I'll tell you something, you can't broad brush them. Some of them are sad, some are "good riddance", some are WTF, Over? But ALL are fucking tragedies for the families.

Rarely is suicide the cowards route. The overwhelming majority are the end of heartrending tales of abuse, violence, neglect, addiction, etc. don't hand me some bullshit line about depression being an excuse you sorry excuse for a human being.

I've scraped up the remains of many a schizophrenic that stopped protecting themselves. They are ALL tragedies for the families. The families watch their loved one unravel over the years, over the decades. A slow motion train wreck which they are powerless to stop. And it kills them, one little bit at a time as their loved one comes apart. The only consolation they have at the end is their loved ones suffering is over.

The mind body link isn't pop psychology bullshit. It is. The mind and the body are one and the same. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an ignorant, atavistic, fat headed buffoon.

[Zool]

Juliet Foxtrot Charlie.

I typically give zero shits about entertainers that die too soon, but Williams made me laugh, was talented and entertaining. This one stings a little. RIP, mr. Williams.

I was going to respond to TPB is a rational way, but Fuggit, that's Patler's role.

Professionally, I've cleaned up enough suicides and fatals to last me a fucking lifetime. And I'll tell you something, you can't broad brush them. Some of them are sad, some are "good riddance", some are WTF, Over? But ALL are fucking tragedies for the families.

Rarely is suicide the cowards route. The overwhelming majority are the end of heartrending tales of abuse, violence, neglect, addiction, etc. don't hand me some bullshit line about depression being an excuse you sorry excuse for a human being.

I've scraped up the remains of many a schizophrenic that stopped protecting themselves. They are ALL tragedies for the families. The families watch their loved one unravel over the years, over the decades. A slow motion train wreck which they are powerless to stop. And it kills them, one little bit at a time as their loved one comes apart. The only consolation they have at the end is their loved ones suffering is over.

The mind body link isn't pop psychology bullshit. It is. The mind and the body are one and the same. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an ignorant, atavistic, fat headed buffoon.

10 points for atavistic.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Professionally, I've cleaned up enough suicides and fatals to last me a fucking lifetime. And I'll tell you something, you can't broad brush them. Some of them are sad, some are "good riddance", some are WTF, Over? But ALL are fucking tragedies for the families.

Rarely is suicide the cowards route. The overwhelming majority are the end of heartrending tales of abuse, violence, neglect, addiction, etc. don't hand me some bullshit line about depression being an excuse you sorry excuse for a human being.

I've scraped up the remains of many a schizophrenic that stopped protecting themselves. They are ALL tragedies for the families. The families watch their loved one unravel over the years, over the decades. A slow motion train wreck which they are powerless to stop. And it kills them, one little bit at a time as their loved one comes apart. The only consolation they have at the end is their loved ones suffering is over.

The mind body link isn't pop psychology bullshit. It is. The mind and the body are one and the same. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an ignorant, atavistic, fat headed buffoon.

Your story reminds me of the show "Six Feet Under."

Good show. Watched first season, liked it, but stopped watching it. Too depressing.

[Tyrion Lannister]

A Packer victory over the Vikings CAUSES the Packers to gain a game in the standings on the Vikings. It may RESULT IN depression for people in Minnesota, but some Minnesotans don't care about the Vikings, thus not letting themselves be affected by depression.

Good point. I always get depressed when the Packers lose. Shit is worst when they lose in the playoffs.

My psychiatrist tells me to vent/post on an internet forum, so not to feel alone. It works sometimes.

[Patler]

Well, the coroners report is in.
Robin Williams had no alcohol or illegal drugs in his system. None whatsoever. They now have reported that he was suffering from a particularly fast developing form of dementia, that can result in all sorts of hullucinations.

[Freak Out]

I watched a loved one slip into dementia.....horrible.

I can see why he would kill himself if he had a diagnosis confirmed...and was starting to feel the effects.