Flynn Tolzien do-over

[Harlan Huckleby]

So many people voted stupidly and incorrectly in the first poll that it seems reasonable to try again now that the picture is clearer. We're a nation that believes in second chances.

I previously thought they would keep both, but with mounting injuries, I think the roster spot has gone up in value.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Still don't think the Pack are going to go into the season with only one backup given what happened last year. Tolzien #2, Flynn#3

[QBME]

Still don't think the Pack are going to go into the season with only one backup given what happened last year. Tolzien #2, Flynn#3

Agree with the logic, inverse ranking.

[Joemailman]

Both make the original 53. However, If TT finds a waived player from another team worth picking up, Tolzien could be waived.

[pbmax]

Tolzien. They roll the dice and figure Flynn will not get picked up but ST might.

[pbmax]

Duplicate post from elsewhere. HH, you need a fifth option:


Tolzien is practice squad eligible.

He has been on the game day roster for only 3 games in his career. You are eligible until the 10th game active.

This season with the expansion of 2 spots on the practice squad those 2 are allowed to be over the 3 year limit. There are new rules this year and you may want to read about it.

http://espn.go.com/blog/tennessee-titans/post/_/id/8529/four-titans-gain-practice-squad-eligibility


Score one for CaliCheez

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 6m
I give up RT @RobDemovsky Clearing up Scott Tolzien's practice-squad eligibility. Guess what? He's eligible NFL says http://es.pn/1vStz5b

Feel free to use this testimonial in your business: Whenever I need an interpretation of overly complicated and poorly written bureaucratic rules, I always trust CaliforniaCheez.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think practice squad eligibility creates an extra option. It might mean the Packers are more likely to cut Tolzien but that's doubtful. TT certainly would not be counting on Tolzien clearing waivers.

The practice squad talk is a psychological crutch for the weak, lily-livered types in our midst who don't want to face making a hard choice. Very sad.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tolzien. They roll the dice and figure Flynn will not get picked up but ST might.

Is "ST" Seattle?

I think either Flynn or Tolzien will get picked-up if they are cut. Tolzien immediately, Flynn later.

[pbmax]

Is "ST" Seattle?

I think either Flynn or Tolzien will get picked-up if they are cut. Tolzien immediately, Flynn later.

ST = Scott Tolzien. I think the Matt Flynn experience from last year argues it would take a lot for him to get picked up. Though, to be fair, he has said he is healthy.

[Zool]

Lets see Tolzien against the #1s because last year he was bad against a few teams' number 1 D.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Lets see Tolzien against the #1s because last year he was bad against a few teams' number 1 D.

The problem with the Flynn #2 + Tolzien #3 choice is you won't see Tolzien play this year in all likelihood. So then fall 2015 the team is at same place all over again.

I think the team needs to make a choice. If they don't think Tolzien will be effective in real games, cut him and go with the Flynn security blanket. Keeping Tolzien as a #3 is just a way of avoiding having to make a decision, and that is not worth the price of a roster spot.

[Zool]

The problem with the Flynn #2 + Tolzien #3 choice is you won't see Tolzien play this year in all likelihood. So then fall 2015 the team is at same place all over again.

I think the team needs to make a choice. If they don't think Tolzien will be effective in real games, cut him and go with the Flynn security blanket.

Or keep both.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Or keep both.

OK. But if you aren't going to promote Tolzien to #2, what is the point? You aren't going to learn anything about Tolzien this year.

Tolzien has more talent than Flynn. That will always be true.
Flynn has more experience than Tolzien. If you aren't willing to promote Tolzien of Flynn, that will remain true.

It is not worth using up a roster spot if you aren't willing to take a risk and promote Tolzien ahead of Flynn.

[Zool]

OK. But if you aren't going to promote Tolzien to #2, what is the point? You aren't going to learn anything about Tolzien this year.

Tolzien has more talent than Flynn. That will always be true.
Flynn has more experience than Tolzien. If you aren't willing to promote Tolzien of Flynn, that will remain true.

It is not worth using up a roster spot if you aren't willing to take a risk and promote Tolzien ahead of Flynn.

If Rodgers goes down and Flynn goes down what then?

[call_me_ishmael]

Flynn. Neither will be good enough to trade for a pick. They're about the same age and price. Tolzien has a stronger arm but hasn't ever shown anything in a game. Flynn has proven he can win. If Rodgers goes down for a game or two, it won't matter either way. If he goes down for 8 games, I don't think it matters much either way if it's Flynn or Tolzien. I tend towards keeping Flynn, personally.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Rodgers goes down and Flynn goes down what then?

OK, keep 3 QBs. I take it then that the plan is to keep Flynn ahead of Tolzien next year too. Otherwise, what is gained by procrastinating the decision to promote Tolzien?

You are keeping a less talented player buried in the depth chart because you can't bring yourself to take a risk. That same risk will always be there.

[Patler]

Keep Flynn, try to get Tolzien to the PS. If you lose him, don't sweat it. It is unlikely they will need three anyway.

I don't think either one of them will be in that great of a demand on the waiver wire. Not many teams keep three QBs on their regular rosters anymore, and most will go with one they have had through out TC. Injuries, of course, can change that thinking for any team. The "worry" might be SF, if some of you are correct in stating their backups have been bad, since they have experience with Tolzien.

[Patler]

If Rodgers goes down and Flynn goes down what then?

Sign Tolzien to give up his seat on the couch of his living room, or sign some other QB who probably has more actual playing experience than Tolzien.

[pbmax]

Sign Tolzien to give up his seat on the couch of his living room, or sign some other QB who probably has more actual playing experience than Tolzien.

I wonder if its too easy to dismiss his attractiveness to teams. He was signed by a team with Norv Turner as HC then picked up by Harbaugh for 2 years. Then the Packers came calling. It would be easy to dismiss Norv and AJ Smith (even though they tended to find decent QB prospects) but the other two teams seem to be a good recommendation.

I think he gets picked up if waived and other waiver fodder would be worse. Flynn might get picked up too, if last season was marred by his elbow trouble. Though he would be more likely to last for some time until a team needed a stop gap vet.

[Harlan Huckleby]

We saw last year what the quality of QBs looks like on the street. Of course Tolzien will find a team if cut, Flynn too in time.

I do think Patler's idea of just going with Flynn makes some sense, given his low evaluation of Tolzien.

I don't see anybody voting for just keeping Flynn.

[Bretsky]

We saw last year what the quality of QBs looks like on the street. Of course Tolzien will find a team if cut, Flynn too in time.

I do think Patler's idea of just going with Flynn makes some sense, given his low evaluation of Tolzien.

I don't see anybody voting for just keeping Flynn.


Still pissed at Tolzien for mucking up the TCU game

Keep Flynn !! :)

[George Cumby]

Agree with the logic, inverse ranking.

+1

[Patler]

We saw last year what the quality of QBs looks like on the street. Of course Tolzien will find a team if cut, Flynn too in time.

I do think Patler's idea of just going with Flynn makes some sense, given his low evaluation of Tolzien.

I don't see anybody voting for just keeping Flynn.

Huh? Mostly we saw Tolzien last year, who didn't have much success in game results and Flynn who did. Tolzien was with GB for 10 weeks before he was asked to play. Flynn bounced around between three (?) teams, sat at home a few weeks, was in GB for something like 5 practices and saved the seaaon.

[3irty1]

Keep Flynn, try to get Tolzien to the PS. If you lose him, don't sweat it. It is unlikely they will need three anyway.

I don't think either one of them will be in that great of a demand on the waiver wire. Not many teams keep three QBs on their regular rosters anymore, and most will go with one they have had through out TC. Injuries, of course, can change that thinking for any team. The "worry" might be SF, if some of you are correct in stating their backups have been bad, since they have experience with Tolzien.

Is he eligible?

[pbmax]

Is he eligible?

Yes.

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 6h
Clearing up Scott Tolzien's practice-squad eligibility. Guess what? He's eligible, the NFL says. #Packers
http://es.pn/1vStz5b

[Zool]

Sign Tolzien to give up his seat on the couch of his living room, or sign some other QB who probably has more actual playing experience than Tolzien.

I'd much rather the guy with 1.5 years in the playboy who's been at practice, team meetings, games etc.

[KYPack]

HH, I don't exactly get your zeal for Tolzien.

Flynn is the team's back-up, Tozien is extra insurance.

FLYNN IN THE FOURTH
In Green Bay’s comeback win at Dallas in Week 15 last season, QB Matt
Flynn had a strong showing in the fourth quarter, connecting on nine of 12
passes for 99 yards and two TDs for a 138.5 passer rating.
After coming on in relief of QB Scott Tolzien in the second half of the
Week 12 contest, Flynn had had a lot of success in the fourth quarter of
games. He posted a 125.5 passer rating in the final quarter, completing
33 of 46 passes for 383 yards and four TDs with no INTs.
Flynn’s fourth-quarter passer rating in Weeks 12-17 ranked No. 1 in
the NFL over that span:
In the Week 15 win at Dallas, Flynn became the first QB in franchise history
to throw four TD passes in a second half. He was one of four NFL
quarterbacks to do so last season:

Player Passing TDs (2nd Half)
1. Peyton Manning, vs. Bal., 9/5/13 5
2t. Matt Flynn, at Dal., 12/15/13 4
2t. Andrew Luck, at Cin., 12/8/13 4
2t. Tony Romo, at Den., 10/6/13 4

Flynn is walking in some tall cotton in elite company.
Tozien is still eligible for the practice squad.

It ain't like, close.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Still pissed at Tolzien for mucking up the TCU game

Keep Flynn !! :)

OK, I can respect this. Vengeance is good, it has a long tradition.
My problem is with the posters suffering from Low T who can't bring themselves to promote Tolzien over Flynn, yet they also can't decide to cut Tolzien, they want to hang on to him to try again in a year. Nothing will be different in a year. If you think Tolzien stinks, cut him and free a roster spot.

[Harlan Huckleby]

HH, I don't exactly get your zeal for Tolzien.

Flynn is the team's back-up, Tozien is extra insurance.

I don't actually have any zeal for Tolzien, just some manufactured enthusiasm for recreational purposes.
Tolzien looks significantly better than Flynn this preseason, so I say give him a spin. Your statement there that Flynn is unchallengable is odd.


Tozien is still eligible for the practice squad.
Ya, so is Eddie Lacy. Tolzien isn't going to clear waivers.
This talk of the practice squad is just a crutch to make the decision seem easier.

Look at the poll, nobody can bring themselves to just cut Tolzien outright! I'm going back to watching The View, more virile.

[Pugger]

Lets see Tolzien against the #1s because last year he was bad against a few teams' number 1 D.

Of course last year he was thrown into the fire after Wallace got hurt and really didn't know the offense like he does now so I don't put a lot of weight on his performances last year. If I can find an online feed of the game tonight I will be watching both Scot and Matt closely.

[Pugger]

Huh? Mostly we saw Tolzien last year, who didn't have much success in game results and Flynn who did. Tolzien was with GB for 10 weeks before he was asked to play. Flynn bounced around between three (?) teams, sat at home a few weeks, was in GB for something like 5 practices and saved the seaaon.

And Scott was on the practice squad until Rodgers got hurt and then he had to be Wallace's backup. A guy on the PS doesn't get any reps so he was truly green when he was forced to play after Wallace got hurt.

[Harlan Huckleby]

OK, so Patler is a real man.

[Patler]

And Scott was on the practice squad until Rodgers got hurt and then he had to be Wallace's backup. A guy on the PS doesn't get any reps so he was truly green when he was forced to play after Wallace got hurt.
A QB on PS does get to study the playbook, so Flynn had 10 weeks of that. He does get to do film study with the other QBs, so Flynn had 10 weeks of that. He does get to watch the #1 & #2 run the offense, so Flynn had 10 weeks of watching and learning from watching Rodgers & Wallace. He gets to run the scout team, so he had practice with mechanics. He should have been as prepared or more prepared than Fynn was when he came in. Flynn even remarked at how much the offense had changed since he was last there.

I'm not saying he was as prepared as he might be now, but 2 1/2 months into the season the excuse wears thin. It's his job to get prepared, and Tolzien is reputed to be a tireless worker in that regard. I will give him some slack, but not a lot. He was in his third year in the league, with two full seasons on the 49ers 53 man roster.

Even this year so far, Tolzien gets yards, but tends to come up short on getting points.

I just don't think he has done enough to get beyond the proven commodity that Flynn is for the Packers. Maybe he will eventually, but he really has not shown that yet this preseason.

[Guiness]

A QB on PS does get to study the playbook, so Tolzien had 10 weeks of that. He does get to do film study with the other QBs, so Tolzien had 10 weeks of that. He does get to watch the #1 & #2 run the offense, so Tolzien had 10 weeks of watching and learning from watching Rodgers & Wallace. He gets to run the scout team, so he had practice with mechanics. He should have been as prepared or more prepared than Fynn was when he came in. Flynn even remarked at how much the offense had changed since he was last there.

I'm not saying he was as prepared as he might be now, but 2 1/2 months into the season the excuse wears thin. It's his job to get prepared, and Tolzien is reputed to be a tireless worker in that regard. I will give him some slack, but not a lot. He was in his third year in the league, with two full seasons on the 49ers 53 man roster.

Even this year so far, Tolzien gets yards, but tends to come up short on getting points.

I just don't think he has done enough to get beyond the proven commodity that Flynn is for the Packers. Maybe he will eventually, but he really has not shown that yet this preseason.

Pretty much how I feel, but I'm pretty sure you swapped the QBs names?

[pbmax]

Film room and QB room and meetings with McAdoo are all well and good. Practice reps as (at best) scout team QB running another team's plays are not as good. Even the team acknowledged that second stringer Wallace didn't get enough first team reps when it was his time to go in.

You need an offseason and training camp to master an offense, especially a player who had not previously started except in exhibitions in another offense.

His performance last year plus his background are not enough to make him the backup unless you are willing to live with underprepared. And given the Packers stashed him on the PS in 2013, they weren't.

But he looks different this year. We have no way to know if it will carry over to the regular season, but it looks much more promising than Flynn so far. One problem is that reporters have said Flynn, despite fitful production in preseason games, has had a good camp.

[Pugger]

All I can say is if we only keep one we'll be miles ahead than this time last year. I don't know if we have the luxury to keep both. :-|

[MadScientist]

Sign Tolzien to give up his seat on the couch of his living room, or sign some other QB who probably has more actual playing experience than Tolzien.
Yea, because signing QB's after TC who had never been in the GB system worked out so well last year.

Tolzien has outplayed Flynn in the preseason, but I suspect that the Packers trust Flynn more because of his regular season track record. For that reason they will probably keep both, with Flynn as the number 2.

[esoxx]

I'd much rather the guy with 1.5 years in the playboy who's been at practice, team meetings, games etc.

To each his own pal. I'd much rather my QB, back up or otherwise, keep his focus on football instead of softcore porn. Take it to the Garbage Can.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hey, Freak Out weighs in with some grapefruit-sized balls, he cut Tolzien.


I'm going to have some major crow to eat if Tolzien makes it to the practice squad. But I'm expecting Bretsky to be eating the humble pie as soon as tomorrow.

[Zool]

To each his own pal. I'd much rather my QB, back up or otherwise, keep his focus on football instead of softcore porn. Take it to the Garbage Can.

It's all about the articles my good man.

[KYPack]

I don't actually have any zeal for Tolzien, just some manufactured enthusiasm for recreational purposes.
Tolzien looks significantly better than Flynn this preseason, so I say give him a spin. Your statement there that Flynn is unchallengable is odd.


Ya, so is Eddie Lacy. Tolzien isn't going to clear waivers.
This talk of the practice squad is just a crutch to make the decision seem easier.

Look at the poll, nobody can bring themselves to just cut Tolzien outright! I'm going back to watching The View, more virile.

Anything you say, Harlan.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Anything you say, Harlan.

Welcome aboard Team Huckleby, I am honored by your allegiance. You could do far worse for a guru.

[Patler]

Pretty much how I feel, but I'm pretty sure you swapped the QBs names?

Sure did, thanks for correcting it. That's what I get for trying to get a post off quickly before leaving for the rest of the day!

[woodbuck27]

OK. But if you aren't going to promote Tolzien to #2, what is the point? You aren't going to learn anything about Tolzien this year.

Tolzien has more talent than Flynn. That will always be true.
Flynn has more experience than Tolzien. If you aren't willing to promote Tolzien of Flynn, that will remain true.

It is not worth using up a roster spot if you aren't willing to take a risk and promote Tolzien ahead of Flynn.

I'd want Tolzien's upside.

[Rutnstrut]

I've seen how little upside Tolzien has when I watched every Badger game he played in. Whether seeing him in person or on tv, it was not very impressive. Flynn gets it done, it may not be pretty but he gets it done.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I've seen how little upside Tolzien has when I watched every Badger game he played in. Whether seeing him in person or on tv, it was not very impressive. Flynn gets it done, it may not be pretty but he gets it done.

Yet you lack the decisiveness to cut Tolzien outright. You want to use a roster spot for him "for the future"? Why hang on to a guy who is not very impressive? Surely there are other not-very-impressive QBs that could be brought in later. TT usually prefers to go with 2 QBs.

I'm curious, people who are voting for a 3 QB roster this year, does that mean you think GB should keep 3 QBs every year?

[texaspackerbacker]

Both make the original 53. However, If TT finds a waived player from another team worth picking up, Tolzien could be waived.

Tolzien? Try Flynn. I voted for keeping just Tolzien - I think the poll was "want", right - not what we think will happen?

The only way either is likely to leave is if Ted gets a decent offer of a draft choice in trade - and I think that would only be considered if the offer was for Flynn.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The only way either is likely to leave is if Ted gets a decent offer of a draft choice in trade - and I think that would only be considered if the offer was for Flynn.

I think greedy Ted would trade either for a #6 or better draft pick. He'd trade his mom for a #3. Draft picks are catnip to TT. Flynn looked good tonight. Either guy is fine for the #2 job, IMO.

[gbgary]

i think they keep both on the 53. tolzien wouldn't make through waivers to put on ps. both played well tonight. i think flynn gets the #2 but i wouldn't be surprised or upset if tolzien got it.

[jdrats]

Am I the only one who thinks there are throws that Flynn just simply can't make any more? I don't know the whole story on the elbow injury, but seems to me he has missed on just about every throw over 20 yards in the air and rarely shows any "zip" on shorter throws. I honestly don't think he can make either of the throws that were Tolzien's TDs last night.

That said, I voted keep both. At least for a week. Drop either and I believe the Seahawks pick them up and pump them for our offensive calls.

[Patler]

I've seen how little upside Tolzien has when I watched every Badger game he played in. Whether seeing him in person or on tv, it was not very impressive. Flynn gets it done, it may not be pretty but he gets it done.

That's what I keep coming back to. Even last night, Flynn missed some throws he should have made, yet he had an 86 yard drive for one TD and a 94 yard drive for another. Sure, the second one was helped tremendously by penalties, but he took advantage of them. It has sort of been the story of his career. He's never been good enough, yet he makes it work. To me, he is kind of the ideal backup, one that could be around a long time, until Rodgers' heir-apparent is found.

I guess I just don't have the same confidence in Tolzien that I have in Flynn, and since the hope is neither will ever become the starter, I like the reliability of Flynn to pick up the pieces if it becomes necessary.

[Patler]

Am I the only one who thinks there are throws that Flynn just simply can't make any more? I don't know the whole story on the elbow injury, but seems to me he has missed on just about every throw over 20 yards in the air and rarely shows any "zip" on shorter throws. I honestly don't think he can make either of the throws that were Tolzien's TDs last night.

That said, I voted keep both. At least for a week. Drop either and I believe the Seahawks pick them up and pump them for our offensive calls.

I'm not sure Flynn ever did make those throws with any consistency. His arm strength has always been a question mark.

[3irty1]

Its interesting that the poll is between Flynn over Tolzien and Tolzien over nothing. The most conservative and most risky choice.

[Rutnstrut]

Yet you lack the decisiveness to cut Tolzien outright. You want to use a roster spot for him "for the future"? Why hang on to a guy who is not very impressive? Surely there are other not-very-impressive QBs that could be brought in later. TT usually prefers to go with 2 QBs.

I'm curious, people who are voting for a 3 QB roster this year, does that mean you think GB should keep 3 QBs every year?








Not indecisive at all, I just think it's extremely stupid to go into the season with only one decent back up QB. Especially for the Packers who seem to always mysteriously be bitten by the injury bug.

[Fritz]

If you don't think Tolzien is good enough to be the heir to Rodgers, then cut his sorry ass.

How's that for decisive, blue dog?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Its interesting that the poll is between Flynn over Tolzien and Tolzien over nothing. The most conservative and most risky choice.

Tolzien may be risky relative to Flynn, but if you look around the league, the #2's are a lot of #2. Tolzien is not risky by league standards.

Keeping Flynn>Tolzien is conservative in that you avoid making choices that could fail. But is it really conservative to spend extravagantly on QB resources? That does not fit-in with the Thompson style of GMing. He believes in cutting players a year early rather than a year late. Out with the old, in with the upcoming.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you don't think Tolzien is good enough to be the heir to Rodgers, then cut his sorry ass.

How's that for decisive, blue dog?

My nipples are hard. I love a can-do fan.

[Zool]

Tolzien may be risky relative to Flynn, but if you look around the league, the #2's are a lot of #2. Tolzien is not risky by league standards.

Keeping Flynn>Tolzien is conservative in that you avoid making choices that could fail. But is it really conservative to spend extravagantly on QB resources? That does not fit-in with the Thompson style of GMing. He believes in cutting players a year early rather than a year late. Out with the old, in with the upcoming.

If Rodgers goes down, this is a .500 ball club with either guy. Does it really matter this much or are we just talking to have something to talk about?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Does it really matter this much or are we just talking to have something to talk about?

the latter.

but bug out, party pooper.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Not indecisive at all, I just think it's extremely stupid to go into the season with only one decent back up QB. Especially for the Packers who seem to always mysteriously be bitten by the injury bug.

OK, so then you vote for the Packers keeping 3 QBs every season that 3 respectables can be rounded-up?

That might be overly risk averse, wasteful. Most GMs, include TT, lean to 2

[3irty1]

I guess I should have said the highest and lowest risk:reward choices. Most people who want Flynn as the backup also want a backup backup. Most people who like Tolzien feel comfortable putting all their eggs in that basket.

I'm sure TT will cut both and rock Cobb as the backup.

[ThunderDan]

I guess I should have said the highest and lowest risk:reward choices. Most people who want Flynn as the backup also want a backup backup. Most people who like Tolzien feel comfortable putting all their eggs in that basket.

I'm sure TT will cut both and rock Cobb as the backup.

I am in the boat of Tolzien is ahead of Flynn but after last year I am not against rolling with 3 QBs on the roster.

[Pugger]

I still don't think we'll keep both Matt and Scott. I suspect we don't have that luxury. :sad: I too like Tolzien's upside but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they go with Flynn. I just hope if they do they don't come to regret it. Tolzien isn't going to last too long as a FA.

[Rutnstrut]

OK, so then you vote for the Packers keeping 3 QBs every season that 3 respectables can be rounded-up?

That might be overly risk averse, wasteful. Most GMs, include TT, lean to 2

When it comes to the Packers and injuries I don't think they can be compared to what the rest of the league is doing. They are the exception, in a bad way.