Starting Center

[Harlan Huckleby]

When Tretter returns he'll be coming off 8 weeks of inactivity. Tretter has no game experience, Linsley will be 8 games into the learning curve. Linsley already looks like a strong starter, not just a stop-gap.

[pbmax]

Linsley is being graded on a curve now by the public; its about how many obvious screwups he has.

The coaches are more interested in the details. It could change, but I still think they want Tretter to start.

[Pugger]

But if Linsley continues to play well and we still have tackle issues perhaps they might leave him in the middle and try Tretter outside?

[Patler]

I read a few things about Tretter's pre-season. One of the articles had quotes from opposing team scouts. One said Tretter was outstanding, especially considering he had never played the position. The clincher was when he said he had the makings of an All-Pro, because he was already doing things that established centers struggle with. He said Tretter was looking like a real find for the Packers.

That said, if Linsley is playing well when Tretter comes back, I would not be surprised to see Linsley remain as the starter this year. They may not want to shake things up that much to bring in a guy with no experience. Next season could be the competition for the starting spot.

[denverYooper]

But if Linsley continues to play well and we still have tackle issues perhaps they might leave him in the middle and try Tretter outside?

Or maybe they'll move Lang to RT and put Tretter at RG if Bulaga doesn't come back/goes down again.

It's funny that none of us really expects Bulaga to stay healthy.

[pbmax]

I read a few things about Tretter's pre-season. One of the articles had quotes from opposing team scouts. One said Tretter was outstanding, especially considering he had never played the position. The clincher was when he said he had the makings of an All-Pro, because he was already doing things that established centers struggle with. He said Tretter was looking like a real find for the Packers.

There was another point made in the preseason about Tretter than I did not see evidence for. During camp practices and one of the early preseason game, reporters noted that Tretter seemed to be able to execute the reach block play side on zone runs, which is something that hasn't gone well since Wells left.

However, in the cases I was able to watch, he didn't seem to get a lot of them done. Having a banged up leg isn't going to help that. If Linsley can do it and M3 can run his zone runs, that would be one way to ensure a job.

[pbmax]

But if Linsley continues to play well and we still have tackle issues perhaps they might leave him in the middle and try Tretter outside?

That's called a Flanagan.

[Guiness]

Tretter played tackle in college, I could see him ending up there. It could depend on Linsley and Sherrod. APRU (Assuming Player (Bulaga) Remains Unhealthy), it's an 8 game tryout for them, and the loser goes to the bench with Tretter taking his place.

WRT Lang kicking out and Tretter at guard, Lang has been out there before and not done well, hasn't he?

[HarveyWallbangers]

There was another point made in the preseason about Tretter than I did not see evidence for. During camp practices and one of the early preseason game, reporters noted that Tretter seemed to be able to execute the reach block play side on zone runs, which is something that hasn't gone well since Wells left.

However, in the cases I was able to watch, he didn't seem to get a lot of them done. Having a banged up leg isn't going to help that. If Linsley can do it and M3 can run his zone runs, that would be one way to ensure a job.

I watched Tretter on every play in the preseason, and I thought he was outstanding. I only saw one negative play from him. He was bull rushed early in the first preseason game. Other than that, there was nothing to quibble about from his preseason.

[Bossman641]

Linsley is stronger but I believe Tretter is more athletic and better getting to the second level. The comments coming from opposing scouts were very high on Tretter. Regardless, it's be nice if they could cross-train one of these guys at guard.

[pbmax]

I watched Tretter on every play in the preseason, and I thought he was outstanding. I only saw one negative play from him. He was bull rushed early in the first preseason game. Other than that, there was nothing to quibble about from his preseason.

Nah. He had at least two play side reach blocks on outside zone runs that he did not get to. Wound up trailing the guy all down the line. Only matters if the RB needs a cutback.

No one bats 100% and I am not saying the sky is falling. What I am saying is that the near universal praise for him in the preseason is premature until he enters a regular season game.

[MadScientist]

This is the Packers, by the end of the year Gerhart will be the only one able to suit up. If we're lucky.

[Patler]

What I am saying is that the near universal praise for him in the preseason is premature until he enters a regular season game.

Which is exactly why I almost expect them to stay with Linsley if he is playing well, regardless of their feelings for each long term. Next year it might be a wide open competition.

[Harlan Huckleby]

On the one-hand... on the other hand...

Harry Truman said "Give me a one-handed economist!" Same can be said about posters.

It is a close call.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nah. He had at least two play side reach blocks on outside zone runs that he did not get to. Wound up trailing the guy all down the line. Only matters if the RB needs a cutback.

No one bats 100% and I am not saying the sky is falling. What I am saying is that the near universal praise for him in the preseason is premature until he enters a regular season game.

Nitpicky. Of course, there are times when OL don't reach their moving target, but Im guessing neither play would have gotten a minus when the coaches graded his play.

[smuggler]

I like Tretter a little more.

[hoosier]

Harry Truman said "Give me a one-handed economist!"

Truman was too Puritanical for his own good. He didn't realize that there is a secret economy linking productivity and self-pleasuring. One handed economists indeed.

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-1/p160x160/321038_155190944629599_1381948131_n.jpg?oh=8e8a7ca a2b3dc0e1cd68fbaf6761c565&oe=54A127EE&__gda__=1417911665_90de29a3cf7d3076c72a12500c0afb5 0

[smuggler]

Now that's a masterstroke, hoosier. ;D

[Rutnstrut]

Imo if the offense is running smoothly they will leave Linsley there. From what I have seen I like them both, with Linsley being my favorite although I think Tretter is a better player technique wise.

[3irty1]

Tretter is more versatile, I think by the time he returns he'll be pressed into service elsewhere. Linsley has far more experience at center than anyone else on the team and now he's got inertia working for him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Tretter is more versatile, I think by the time he returns he'll be pressed into service elsewhere.

I don't know, with no game experience or practice reps, hard to move a new guy around.

[Bretsky]

Tretter is more versatile, I think by the time he returns he'll be pressed into service elsewhere. Linsley has far more experience at center than anyone else on the team and now he's got inertia working for him.

Scary as it is...we were all terrified about the center position

now it's a position of strength

trotter was outstanding and linsley...one draft pick I loved...has been very good as well.

can either of them replace fluffy ......just athinkin

[Harlan Huckleby]

Looks like the Council of Elders had named Linsley the 2014 starter.


It does seem likely that Tretter will play someway, somehow. He could replace Sherrod as backup tackle. He would suck there, but would he suck less than Sherry? Maybe they can give him practice at tackle against nut squad.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is little chance that Tretter returns to start at center. Who plays tackle when somebody gets hurt? I can't see the team wanting to completely reshuffle the line when Tretter can backup all 5 positions.

But I see there is some waffling now compared to earlier predictions.

[pbmax]

I read a few things about Tretter's pre-season. One of the articles had quotes from opposing team scouts. One said Tretter was outstanding, especially considering he had never played the position. The clincher was when he said he had the makings of an All-Pro, because he was already doing things that established centers struggle with. He said Tretter was looking like a real find for the Packers.

That said, if Linsley is playing well when Tretter comes back, I would not be surprised to see Linsley remain as the starter this year. They may not want to shake things up that much to bring in a guy with no experience. Next season could be the competition for the starting spot.

Whatever the final result, I think Patler has it covered. :lol:

[Patler]

My original comments were before we saw anything from Linsley, so I posted my analysis.

Fast forward to the situation that exists today - I will be very much surprised if they switch starting centers this year. The starting job is Linsleys for the balance of 2014. Tretter has to wait for next year.

[Pugger]

My original comments were before we saw anything from Linsley, so I posted my analysis.

Fast forward to the situation that exists today - I will be very much surprised if they switch starting centers this year. The starting job is Linsleys for the balance of 2014. Tretter has to wait for next year.

But what if Tretter is outperforming Linsley at practice? Never say never...

[denverYooper]

But what if Tretter is outperforming Linsley at practice? Never say never...

This will be just about impossible to determine. Linsely will be playing with the ones and Tretter with the scrubs.

They'd only switch if Linsley has been grading out poorly, turns into a tire fire, or gets injured.

[denverYooper]

What's up with all of the Linsley hate? You guys really want to see him get Wells'd.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But what if Tretter is outperforming Linsley at practice? Never say never...

I wonder if there is any contact at all in practice. I don't think there is much opportnity to stand out.

I played a bit of football in high school. The games were fun, but practice was deadly boring. You don't play football, you do boring drills and listen to coaches yell and prattle on. I can't even imagine how tedious it is to be a pro football player. Between endless walk-throughs and film talks, it's got to be the most tedious grinds imaginable. Organized football stinks. Every other sport you get to play the game most of the time.

Anyway, Tretter will hopefully spend his practice time learning all five positions.

[Pugger]

On another forum there is a thread showing the O line's blocking in the Dolphin game and it isn't pretty. I hope this was just an abnormality or we might be trouble going forward against good defenses. :sad: Linsley had issues along with the veterans.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=555884

[Harlan Huckleby]

For what it's worth, Tom Silverstein said on radio today that he thought Tretter is a much better run blocker, particularly with athleticism to take-on linebackers. He thinks Packers will move him to starting lineup in three weeks.

I suppose Tretter could still be backup at other positions, Linsley brought in to center.

I'm just obsessed with perception that dropoff to Sherrod and Taylor is a cliff.

[pbmax]

On another forum there is a thread showing the O line's blocking in the Dolphin game and it isn't pretty. I hope this was just an abnormality or we might be trouble going forward against good defenses. :sad: Linsley had issues along with the veterans.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=555884

Those first two don't look good for Linsley. He missed a combo block on the LB each time. And each LB he missed made the tackle. First one could have been Q, but Linsley sauntered over to the missed LB late, Q headed right for the MLB.

[smuggler]

Based on how Tretter played in the preseason, and also that the offensive line has not achieved the GEL/MESH ideal, I think there's a good chance that Linsley will get pulled if/when he has another poor game (Detroit/Miami) and Tretter will remain the starter until he gets injured again.

[Fritz]

If the team starts training Tretter at tackle, we'll know they've given up on Derrick Sherrod.

I wonder what the idea was behind giving Sherrod six snaps in the Miami game as an extra blocker. Are they trying to get his confidence up? Just part of the offense? Is he going to catch a touchdown pass in the NFC Championship game?

[denverYooper]

I think there is a more general phenomenon at play here: the desire for a simple fix.

A lot of posters want to believe that one guy, the new guy on the line, is the one player that is causing the line play to be uneven. So now every mistake he makes -- maybe 2 on combos in those shots -- is magnified and blown up. But it looks to me like a lot was wrong across the line in general. It's not like this is a new problem now that Linsley is in. Think of the several Giants games where active, athletic linemen are just eating the OL's lunch and messing up the Packer game.

Linsley's not just a failing component that can be changed out to suddenly turn the OL into a smoothly functioning machine. He's just the new guy who made a rookie mistake of not mixing up the snap count, and even that might be more of a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

[Bossman641]

If the team starts training Tretter at tackle, we'll know they've given up on Derrick Sherrod.

I wonder what the idea was behind giving Sherrod six snaps in the Miami game as an extra blocker. Are they trying to get his confidence up? Just part of the offense? Is he going to catch a touchdown pass in the NFC Championship game?

I think they were just tired of seeing R Rodgers get mauled whenever he lined up as an inline TE and tried to block a DE or LB.

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=Fritz;803252]If the team starts training Tretter at tackle, we'll know they've given up on Derrick Sherrod.

/QUOTE]


It is about time

[Rutnstrut]

I think there is a more general phenomenon at play here: the desire for a simple fix.

A lot of posters want to believe that one guy, the new guy on the line, is the one player that is causing the line play to be uneven. So now every mistake he makes -- maybe 2 on combos in those shots -- is magnified and blown up. But it looks to me like a lot was wrong across the line in general. It's not like this is a new problem now that Linsley is in. Think of the several Giants games where active, athletic linemen are just eating the OL's lunch and messing up the Packer game.

Linsley's not just a failing component that can be changed out to suddenly turn the OL into a smoothly functioning machine. He's just the new guy who made a rookie mistake of not mixing up the snap count, and even that might be more of a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Great points, I agree totally.

[smuggler]

I pretty much completely disagree with denveryooper. Except on one point. Fans definitely hope that Tretter can play better than Linsley.

From my perspective, the whole line has been marginal, but part of that has been Linsley's play (varying between sub-replacement level and solid) and how the coaching staff has tiptoed around a rookie/backup center in the lineup.

If Tretter is as good as advertised, it would help improve the line, but wouldn't cure all the ills the unit has exibited.

There are no scouts that believe Linsley has superior athletecism, which is your criticism of the whole line, DY. ...

[denverYooper]

I pretty much completely disagree with denveryooper. Except on one point. Fans definitely hope that Tretter can play better than Linsley.

From my perspective, the whole line has been marginal, but part of that has been Linsley's play (varying between sub-replacement level and solid) and how the coaching staff has tiptoed around a rookie/backup center in the lineup.

If Tretter is as good as advertised, it would help improve the line, but wouldn't cure all the ills the unit has exibited.

There are no scouts that believe Linsley has superior athletecism, which is your criticism of the whole line, DY. ...

That was not my criticism of the whole line, though I did indicate they've had problems with athletic DL. My criticism is that GB's OL has always struggled to play cohesively under M3. I don't think that changing out 1 guy is going to remedy that. In fact, it could very well set them back again to re-set with a guy who has no live game experience. Linsley would probably have to grade out poorly on a regular basis for GB to make that switch.

To my untrained eye, more of the problems seem to be on the edges, rather than the interior of the OL. Maybe Tretter should play LT when he comes back.

[pbmax]

Pass blocking on the edges has been a problem, especially on the road. But the interior has added to the problem with some poor run blocking. Play cutups from one game don't mean he is horrid or that the issue is entirely his fault. But the tape belies the general sense you get from the press and the coaching staff that he is untouchable.

Tretter has his own hurdles to overcome, so it could easily play out that way, but not because Linsley has locked it down completely. Remember, according to the coaches and reporters, Bach locked down all his weaknesses during the offseason.

[ThunderDan]

I don't think Tretter is going to play LT. He played LT in the Ivy league not a, power conference.

[smuggler]

pbmax with the daggerpost

[Harlan Huckleby]

Whatever the final result, I think Patler has it covered. :lol:


the tape belies the general sense you get from the press and the coaching staff that he is untouchable.
Tretter has his own hurdles to overcome, so it could easily play out that way


pbmax with the daggerpost

pbmax has borrowed patler's double-edged dagger

[pbmax]

pbmax has borrowed patler's double-edged dagger

:lol:

Nuh-uh. That's a solid as can be prediction that either outcome is possible given the limits to what we know!

Also, I am not buying what Mike is selling on Linsley yet.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree, I'm on your sides of the fence

[Patler]

In view of the new thread, I thought it would be interesting to bring back our discussion from a year ago.