OFFICIAL 2015 NFL DRAFT THREAD

[Fritz]

This is Chip trying to come up with more picks to package together to move up and get Mariota.

I'm not familiar; what year of the contract are those two in? If they've got a couple more years on rookie contracts, then I say Ted, nab them both for second and fourth. Then you've got cheap, proven solutions for two big problem areas, and you can go apeshit BPA in the first and third rounds.

[red]

rrumor out there that one of the packers top scouts, or maybe the top one, is pushing hard for the team to take perryman in the first

[Fritz]

I think it's Alonzo Highsmith who is rumored to be high(smith) on Perryman.

I like McKinney better, but if I were Ted I'd take Highsmith's word over mine.

[pbmax]

I think it's Alonzo Highsmith who is rumored to be high(smith) on Perryman.

I like McKinney better, but if I were Ted I'd take Highsmith's word over mine.

GBPG has the pick as Perryman. Highsmith has been very right before, but of those we know of, they were later round picks (Shields).

[Smidgeon]

GBPG has the pick as Perryman. Highsmith has been very right before, but of those we know of, they were later round picks (Shields).

Who was the guy who scouted Ray Lewis?

[pbmax]

Who was the guy who scouted Ray Lewis?

Don't remember. But Alonzo started in 1999. Ray was drafted by then.

[pbmax]

Jay Glazer @JayGlazer
Scoopage: Agent for LSU's La'el Collins trying to pull him from this draft allowing him time to clear his name then enter Supplemental Draft

Greg Rosenthal @greggrosenthal
On La’el Collins. @RapSheet talked to one source that didn’t expect Collins to be taken out of draft because of precedent it would set.


If true, someone will grab him late and get a steal.

[mraynrand]

rrumor out there that one of the packers top scouts, or maybe the top one, is pushing hard for the team to take perryman in the first

if they nab him in the second, that would be great value

[pbmax]

if they nab him in the second, that would be great value

I wonder though is the rumor based on more than just Alonzo was the SE scout and is tied in with the U of Miami program?

[mraynrand]

Rumor has it that Cleveland has been in a bidding war with .. Cleveland - to get that Titans pick. Current deal has them giving up this year's entire draft and next year's #1 pick to move up.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have talked myself out of the Packers taking an ILB in the first 3 rounds. Either a D-lineman, CB or Rush OLB is going to fall to us and TT is going to have to take him - just my gut feeling.

Furthermore, I think the top tier ILBs (Anthony, McKinney, Perryman, etc.) are going to be gone before the Packers pick in the 2nd. The rest of the ILBs I have going in the 4th and later.

So, I'm doing a alot of last minute cramming on some ILBs that will be available in the later rounds.
My list so far includes:

Ben Heeney – Kansas
Ramik Wilson - Georgia
Jake Ryan – Michigan
Bryce Hager – Baylor

Out of those - Wilson and Ryan are becoming my favorites - especially Jake Ryan, he sounds like a TT pick.

Makes me wonder why bother drafting an ILB at all. The guys on the roster now are as good or better than those on your list IMO.

[Guiness]

that team needs an enima

just fucking clueless

My. God.

St-Louis, a fellow bottom dweller got rid of him for a washed up former starter in a salary dump. And Cleveland pursues him yelling their intentions from the rooftops. smh

[pbmax]

The Draft is now named "Draft Town" and it is presented by Oikos/Dannon. Can't we just go back to helmet phones?

Draft Town presented by Oikos Triple Zero (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000480120/article/draft-town-presented-by-oikos-triple-zero)

On the other hand, seeing M3 and T2 enjoying an Oikos yogurt in the "War Room" camera would be pretty fun.

[pbmax]

The voices in Ed Werder's head speak again:

Ed Werder @Edwerderespn
Source tells me #Bucs talking to teams with late No. 1s wanting to move back for TB No. 34 overall pick. Jameis Winston and another tonight?

[pbmax]

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball
On the eve of the draft, remember this from LSU's weight room a couple of years ago? i.imgur.com/92taq2h.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/92taq2h.jpg

[mraynrand]

^^^ those are all household names

[red]

if they nab him in the second, that would be great value

lol

aaron curry was once a "good value" when he slipped to the 4th pick

[smuggler]

Pls Bucs.... give us your 4th rounder to move up 4 spots!!!

[red]

The voices in Ed Werder's head speak again:

Ed Werder @Edwerderespn
Source tells me #Bucs talking to teams with late No. 1s wanting to move back for TB No. 34 overall pick. Jameis Winston and another tonight?

theres our trade partner, lets hope someone they want falls to us

[red]

Pls Bucs.... give us your 4th rounder to move up 4 spots!!!

exactly

fleece em ted

[pbmax]

NFL rejected Collins request to enter the supplemental draft.

[Joemailman]

I know the draft is in Chicago, but are they going to reserve some tickets for dumb Jets fans just for old times sake?

[red]

Rumor has it that Cleveland has been in a bidding war with .. Cleveland - to get that Titans pick. Current deal has them giving up this year's entire draft and next year's #1 pick to move up.

its like they think the movie "draft day" was good sound business and they should always conduct themselves that way

[red]

NFL rejected Collins request to enter the supplemental draft.

the kid did it to himself, the cops have been asking to talk to him for almost a week and the kid and the lawyer haven't even responded

not how innocents act IMO

he won't be drafted

[red]

I know the draft is in Chicago, but are they going to reserve some tickets for dumb Jets fans just for old times sake?

:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFLuY98

[pbmax]

Never, ever gets old. :D

The Roger Vick pick you could see other fans enjoying the Jets miseries. But by Lageman, there were more people enjoying the Jet fans misery than there were Jet fans even though they were in NY.

[red]

rumor now has the eagles telling the titans to screw off and they are talking to tampa about the #1 pick

its awesome that chip kelly is in the nfl, and working for another team

[red]

ted should be on the phone with chip trying to talk kelly into giving us some players for our #1, then he can give tampa the two firsts that they want

[pbmax]

rumor now has the eagles telling the titans to screw off and they are talking to tampa about the #1 pick

its awesome that chip kelly is in the nfl, and working for another team

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD31AE4WEAAXtox.jpg

[pbmax]

ted should be on the phone with chip trying to talk kelly into giving us some players for our #1, then he can give tampa the two firsts that they want

The question now is will he do something supremely stupid (Ditka-Williams) to get up there.

[pbmax]

Who are we following for pics to be tipped before broadcast?

The NFL has put the kibosh on CBS, ESPN/ABC, Fox and NBC.

Do we need to rely on Peter King? Yahoo!?

[red]

The question now is will he do something supremely stupid (Ditka-Williams) to get up there.

i bet he would

give them our 1st for mychal kendricks, brandon boykins (both on trade block) and their 2nd

then chip could send bradford, both firsts, and maybe next years 1st for the #1

[red]

Who are we following for pics to be tipped before broadcast?

The NFL has put the kibosh on CBS, ESPN/ABC, Fox and NBC.

Do we need to rely on Peter King? Yahoo!?

someone was waaaay ahead of the game last year, it was a noname

[red]

La Canfora had the drop on everyone last year

[pbmax]

La Canfora had the drop on everyone last year

Yeah, but I think he has been muzzled.

[Rastak]

i bet he would

give them our 1st for mychal kendricks, brandon boykins (both on trade block) and their 2nd

then chip could send bradford, both firsts, and maybe next years 1st for the #1


This is by far the intrigue of the draft.

If Tampa pulls the trigger can they get to maybe 3 or 4 and still get Winston?

[Rastak]

Brugler's top 100

1. Leonard Williams, DT, USC
2. Jameis Winston, QB, Florida State
3. Dante Fowler, EDGE, Florida
4. Brandon Scherff, OG, Iowa
5. Amari Cooper, WR, Alabama
6. Kevin White, WR, West Virginia
7. Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon
8. Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia
9. Vic Beasley, EDGE, Clemson
10. DeVante Parker, WR, Louisville
11. Malcom Brown, DT, Texas
12. Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford
13. Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State
14. Danny Shelton, DT, Washington
15. Kevin Johnson, CB, Wake Forest
16. Randy Gregory, EDGE, Nebraska
17. T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh
18. Alvin Dupree, EDGE, Kentucky
19. La’el Collins, OT, LSU
20. Marcus Peters, CB, Washington
21. D.J. Humphries, OT, Florida
22. Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut
23. Melvin Gordon, RB, Wisconsin
24. Ronald Darby, CB, Florida State
25. Shane Ray, DE, Missouri
26. Cameron Erving, OC, Florida State
27. Owa Odighizuwa, DE, UCLA
28. Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Oklahoma
29. Landon Collins, S, Alabama
30. Breshad Perriman, WR, UCF
31. Ereck Flowers, OT, Miami (Fla.)
32. Eric Kendricks, LB, UCLA
33. Eric Rowe, CB, Utah
34. Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon
35. Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State
36. Eli Harold, EDGE, Virginia
37. Jake Fisher, OT, Oregon
38. Maxx Williams, TE, Minnesota
39. Jay Ajayi, RB, Boise State
40. Preston Smith, DE, Mississippi State
41. P.J. Williams, CB, Florida State
42. Jaelen Strong, WR, Arizona State
43. Shaq Thompson, LB, Washington
44. Denzel Perryman, LB, Miami (Fla.)
45. Quinten Rollins, CB, Miami (Ohio)
46. Jordan Phillips, DT, Oklahoma
47. Nelson Agholor, WR, USC
48. Carl Davis, DT, Iowa
49. A.J. Cann, OG, South Carolina
50. Paul Dawson, LB, TCU
51. Steve Nelson, CB, Oregon State
52. Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana
53. Trey Flowers, DE, Arkansas
54. Ameer Abdullah, RB, Nebraska
55. Jalen Collins, CB, LSU
56. Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart
57. Grady Jarrett, DT, Clemson
58. Duke Johnson, RB, Miami (Fla.)
59. Rashad Greene, WR, Florida State
60. Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State
61. Michael Bennett, DT, Ohio State
62. Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami (Fla.)
63. Xavier Cooper, DT, Washington State
64. D’Joun Smith, CB, Florida Atlantic
65. Donovan Smith, OT, Penn State
66. Danielle Hunter, DE, LSU
67. Hroniss Grasu, OC, Oregon
68. Lorenzo Mauldin, EDGE, Louisville
69. Henry Anderson, DE, Stanford
70. James Sample, S, Louisville
71. Rakeem Nunez-Roches, DT, Southern Miss
72. Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Texas A&M
73. Damarious Randall, S, Arizona State
74. Kwon Alexander, LB, LSU
75. T.J. Yeldon, RB, Alabama
76. Tre McBride, WR, William & Mary
77. Hau’oli Kikaha, EDGE, Washington
78. Devin Funchess, WR, Michigan
79. Alex Carter, CB, Stanford
80. Nate Orchard, EDGE, Utah
81. Senquez Golson, CB, Mississippi
82. David Cobb, RB, Minnesota
83. Tre Jackson, OG, Florida State
84. Clive Walford, TE, Miami (Fla.)
85. Mario Edwards Jr., DE, Florida State
86. Jeff Heuerman, TE, Ohio State
87. Charles Gaines, CB, Louisville
88. Stephone Anthony, LB, Clemson
89. David Johnson, RB, Northern Iowa
90. Tyeler Davison, DT, Fresno State
91. Benardrick McKinney, LB, Mississippi State
92. Vince Mayle, WR, Washington State
93. Christian Covington, DT, Rice
94. Jamison Crowder, WR, Duke
95. Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, CB, Oregon
96. Za’Darius Smith, DE, Kentucky
97. Laken Tomlinson, OG, Duke
98. Chris Conley, WR, Georgia
99. Javorius Allen, RB, USC
100. Sammie Coates, WR, Auburn

[pbmax]

I can't see Tampa giving up the pick. Titans have a possible QB. Bucs have Mike Glennon.

[Rastak]

I can't see Tampa giving up the pick. Titans have a possible QB. Bucs have Mike Glennon.

Agreed.

But it is fun to consider the Eagles giving them a huge package and Tampa having enough ammo to get back up and get their man if the Titans play super hardball.

[Guiness]

the kid did it to himself, the cops have been asking to talk to him for almost a week and the kid and the lawyer haven't even responded

not how innocents act IMO

he won't be drafted

That advice ranks up there with "if you have nothing to hide, just answer a few questions let us search your xxx". No good ever came of it.

Am I the only one that thinks this kid is doing the right thing? This all came up way too close to the draft to be able to clear away to the satisfaction of teams drafting in the top half of the first, so he was costing himself money by entering the draft. He's right to pull out, take his time dealing with the police and going for the supplemental. I know the NFL is saying no right now, but if he's fully cleared I don't see what leg they have to stand on to keep him out.

[Rastak]

That advice ranks up there with "if you have nothing to hide, just answer a few questions let us search your xxx". No good ever came of it.

Am I the only one that thinks this kid is doing the right thing? This all came up way too close to the draft to be able to clear away to the satisfaction of teams drafting in the top half of the first, so he was costing himself money by entering the draft. He's right to pull out, take his time dealing with the police and going for the supplemental. I know the NFL is saying no right now, but if he's fully cleared I don't see what leg they have to stand on to keep him out.


My understanding the rules are clear and he hasn't a leg to stand on to force his way into the supplemental draft. If he didn't do anything it's completely not his fault and unfortunate. In this one case, the NFL hasn't done anythiong wrong either. He is in the draft pool and has been all along. It's up to the teams to pick or not pick.

[red]

what if, tampa really wanted mariota all along, and take him #1?

to me, watching them both play, mariota is the better QB

[Rastak]

what if, tampa really wanted mariota all along, and take him #1?

to me, watching them both play, mariota is the better QB


Chip would burst into tears and storm out of the war room.

[red]

Chip would burst into tears and storm out of the war room.

just sit back, wait for the eagles to overpay for #2, then take their player

THAT, would be awesome

[red]

oh, and lets not forget about the biggest drama. if AP gets traded, its gonna happen tonight, or never

[gbgary]

i was hoping ilb (or olb if clay stays inside) but we're so desperate for cb i think that's where we're going with the first pick.

[pbmax]

i was hoping ilb (or olb if clay stays inside) but we're so desperate for cb i think that's where we're going with the first pick.

I think its less desperation for CB than the quality of the players that will be available. They have their nickel CBs, but do need the dime guy.

[pbmax]

Bill Barnwell ‏@billbarnwell 10m10 minutes ago
Bears would only have $4 million in dead money from Jay Cutler’s $16.5 million 2015 cap hit if they traded him to Tennessee.

[pbmax]

This job could be very boring tonight.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 14m14 minutes ago
The #PackersDraft table is ready to go at Selection Square in Chicago.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD4EMZ2UsAEykUu.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Bill Barnwell ‏@billbarnwell 10m10 minutes ago
Bears would only have $4 million in dead money from Jay Cutler’s $16.5 million 2015 cap hit if they traded him to Tennessee.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 5m5 minutes ago
ESPN's @BobHoltzmanESPN reports Bears have spoken with Titans about No. 2 overall pick, but Tenn not interested in Jay Cutler.

HA!

[Striker]

Holy predraft show Batman.

[pbmax]

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora 16s16 seconds ago
Everything I've heard is that Philly's offer to Tennessee is very substantial. Still seems like the sweet spot to me

After the excitement of a draft pick/Cutler trade, the excitement is petering out.

[Rastak]

Latest Peterson rumor:

"Jason Cole throws out this possibility for how Adrian Peterson could be moved in the first round:

The Jacksonville Jaguars trade down from the #3 overall, still staying in the top 10 and picking up extra picks in the process. Jacksonville uses its top 10 pick on Amari Cooper, then turns around and trades whatever it picked up in the Cooper deal plus their 2nd rounder in exchange for Peterson."

[Rastak]

Eagles offer rumor?

Ian Rapoport
‏@RapSheet
What package are #Eagles talking about to go to No. 1 or No. 2? Two 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder, Fletcher Cox, Boykin, Kendricks, more. Wow.

[Rastak]

Glad they are all over the picks again......fuckin aye

[Rastak]

1. JAMEIS WINSTON | Florida State 6036|231 lbs|3SO Bessemer, Ala. (Hueytown HS) 1/6/1994 (age 21) #5
2012: Redshirted GRADE 1st Round 2013: (14/14) 257-384/66.9%/4,057/40/10 88/219/2.5/4
MEASUREABLES Arm: 32 | Hand: 09 3/8 | Wingspan: 78 3/4 2014: (13/13) 305-467/65.3%/3,907/25/18 57/65/1.1/3 COMBINE 40-YD: 4.97 | 10-YD: 1.74 | 20-YD: 2.89 | VJ: 28 1/2 | BJ: 08’07” | SS: 4.36 | 3C: 7.16 Total: (27/27) 562-851/66.0%/7,964/65/28 145/284/2.0/7 PRO DAY N/A (positional drills only) PRONUNCIATION Jame-us
BACKGROUND: A five-star quarterback recruit out of high school, Winston received offers from every program in the country, but narrowed his college choice to LSU, Alabama and Florida State, committing to the Seminoles prior to his senior year in 2011. He redshirted during E.J. Manuel’s senior year in 2012 and beat Jacob Coker for the starting job in 2013, leading FSU to an undefeated 14-0 record, including the 2013 BCS National Championship. He finished with 66.9% completions (257-for384) for 4,057 passing yards and a school-record 40 passing touchdowns, becoming the youngest player ever to win the Heisman Trophy winner. Winston was a consensus All-American and the ACC Player of the Year, also winning the Davey O’Brien and Walter Camp Player of the Year Award. His production decreased slightly in 2014 over 13 starts with 65.3% completions, 3907 passing yards, 25 passing touchdowns and 18 interceptions (second-most in FBS), although he did set a new single season school record with 305 completions and earned First Team All-ACC honors as a sophomore. Winston also earned two letters on the Florida State baseball team as a reliever and outfielder, finishing his collegiate career with a 1.94 ERA, nine saves and a 2-2 record over 60.1 innings (also a .208 batting average as a hitter). He decided to bypass his final two seasons of eligibility in Tallahassee and enter the 2015 NFL Draft.
STRENGTHS: Prototypical size for the position with natural flexibility and body control…possesses the arm strength to deliver strikes to all levels of the field with effortless motion…understands timing and touch and knows how to control his ball speeds…good ball placement and has functional experience with tight-windowed throws…sees the field well with above average anticipation, routinely delivering before his targets are looking for the ball…good recognition pre-snap to check in/out of plays and post-snap to quickly read and make decisions – experienced calling audibles at the line based on defensive alignment…handles pressure well and does a great job keeping his eyes downfield and standing in the face of pressure – fearless and not easily spooked…terrific pocket movements and speeds up his process when needed, listening to his internal clock…doesn’t require a clean pocket and shows the natural footwork to maneuver around the noise with consistent eye level…resets well after pressure with portable framework to make throws when moved from his original spot…has the power and athleticism to be an effective scrambler with multiple gears, making it a challenge for defenders to square him up and finish him off…excellent toughness and can withstand a consistent beating, often playing through pain…intelligent and puts mistakes behind him easily…develops terrific chemistry with his targets, which is a testament to his practice routines…proven in clutch situations and plays at a high level when his team needs him the most with five come-from-behind victories on his résumé…his teammates and coaches love him and speak highly of his vocal leadership and supreme confidence on and off the field – loves football and has a genuine passion for the game…career 26-1 record as a starter, including 26 straight wins…holds the ACC career record for passing yards per game (295.0) and the Florida State records for yards per attempt (9.4) and 300-yard passing performances (14) – also second in FSU history in touchdown passes (65) and completion percentage (66.0%) and third in passing yards (7,964).
WEAKNESSES: Inconsistent weight distribution in his passes at times with a less-than-ideal elongated delivery motion…throws the ball to the other team too much with 28 interceptions in 27 career starts…overly confident passer with a handful of poor decisions each game, forcing low-percentage throws into minuscule windows…needs to be more selective and mature with his decision-making – almost half (13) of his 28 interceptions came on first down…pass-first mentality, but indecisive at times to run if the yards are there for him, holding the ball too long…almost always dives head-first as a ballcarrier, not with his feet, which is a recipe for disaster…needs to eliminate the fumbles and improve his ball security, both in the pocket and when scrambling (13 career fumbles)…needs to tidy up play clock issues…bad habit of squinting on the field because he doesn’t wear contacts for his near-sighted vision…calls football his “passion” but he loves baseball as well and hasn’t ruled out playing professionally – drafted by the Texas Rangers in the 15th round of the 2012 MLB Draft, but didn’t sign…immature tendencies and reactions on the field – frustrated easily and had to be calmed down by FSU coaches on numerous occasions…strong red flags after several off-field incidents that require investigation, notably a sexual assault accusation (Dec. 2012), although the state attorney chose not to press charges due to lack of evidence – never missed any playing time…was cited for shoplifting crab legs (April 2014) and was suspended from the baseball team until he completed 20 hours of community service…was suspended for the Clemson game (Sept. 2014) after an on-campus incident when he stood on a table at the school’s Student Union and yelled a vulgar comment – other minor incidents including firing a BB gun at squirrels on campus and reportedly stealing soda at a fast food restaurant.
SUMMARY: Winston became the first freshman with 4,000+ passing yards and 40+ touchdowns in FBS history, but his sophomore season showed some of his inconsistent decision making and turnover issues with 28 interceptions and 13 fumbles on his career résumé. Winston has NFL physical traits with his size, arm strength and enough mobility, but is most impressive in three critical areas: pocket maneuverability (presence and comfort with bullets buzzing past his ear), anticipation as a passer (throws receivers open with terrific touch) and clutch ability (the most focused and comfortable in tight moments). He shows immature and insecure habits off the field and teams need to figure out if he can be trusted or if there is a fundamental flaw in his psyche that suggests trouble will follow him, especially under constant media scrutiny in the NFL. Despite the off-field issues, the football field is his refuge and he’s been able to block out distractions and bounce back from mistakes. Although he isn’t on Andrew Luck’s level as an on-field NFL prospect, Winston is close as the game appears to come very natural to him and he has ideal physical traits for the NFL game. He has the talent and upside worth the No. 1 overall pick in the 2015 NFL draft with a high NFL ceiling, but his immaturity and willingness to break the quarterback Hippocratic Oath (keep the team from harm) are wildcards, lowering his NFL floor.

[Rastak]

Not a surprise.....so what happens at 2?

[red]

other thread ras

[Rastak]

other thread ras

OFFICIAL-2015-NFL-DRAFT-THREAD isn't the thread?

[red]

OFFICIAL-2015-NFL-DRAFT-THREAD isn't the thread?

no, joe wanted to steal my thunder and made an official day 1 thread

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have talked myself out of the Packers taking an ILB in the first 3 rounds. Either a D-lineman, CB or Rush OLB is going to fall to us and TT is going to have to take him - just my gut feeling.

Furthermore, I think the top tier ILBs (Anthony, McKinney, Perryman, etc.) are going to be gone before the Packers pick in the 2nd. The rest of the ILBs I have going in the 4th and later.

So, I'm doing a alot of last minute cramming on some ILBs that will be available in the later rounds.
My list so far includes:

Ben Heeney – Kansas
Ramik Wilson - Georgia
Jake Ryan – Michigan
Bryce Hager – Baylor

Out of those - Wilson and Ryan are becoming my favorites - especially Jake Ryan, he sounds like a TT pick.

Great job as prognosticator, pittstang. You nailed it!

[red]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

[HarveyWallbangers]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

[Guiness]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

Don't know if I totally buy that, especially the part about 'on field talent'. Everything I've seen about Sams is that he was a marginal talent who was never seen as a player who would go in the first few rounds of the draft even before he came out.

I'd say he was hurt a lot more by running a 4.9 forty, follow by a > 5sec time at the veteran combine didn't help.

[mraynrand]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8265615/shane-ray-michael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

So you're accusing the entire NFL of bigotry. Sure you didn't miss anyone?

[Guiness]

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

Well...Ray didn't run at all at the combine.

[red]

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

sam ran a 4.73 at his pro day, on the same track that ray ran a 4.68, i think it was

ray did 21 reps, sam did 19
ray had a 33 inch vert, sam had a 30

neither did any of the on field drills at the combine

other "measurables", ray is an inch taller, sam was 10 pounds heavier (but still considered too small to be a DE, not a problem for ray)

as the article mentions, the college stats were almost identical, the players were almost identical. when sam came out, people said he didn't test well, and you can't just judge a guy by what he did in college on film. when ray dissappointed at his pro day, the same people said, you can't look at the numbers, you can see on the game film how good he is

[red]

So you're accusing the entire NFL of bigotry. Sure you didn't miss anyone?

yeah, you asshat

nfl+1

[mraynrand]

yeah, you asshat

nfl+1

Why not just accuse everyone, except of course yourself - you, the lone bastion of enlightenment, with vulgarity as a co-segregating trait. We here at Packerrats can only be grateful to god to have you as our moral compass.

[mraynrand]

sam ran a 4.73 at his pro day, on the same track that ray ran a 4.68, i think it was

ray did 21 reps, sam did 19
ray had a 33 inch vert, sam had a 30

neither did any of the on field drills at the combine

other "measurables", ray is an inch taller, sam was 10 pounds heavier (but still considered too small to be a DE, not a problem for ray)

as the article mentions, the college stats were almost identical, the players were almost identical. when sam came out, people said he didn't test well, and you can't just judge a guy by what he did in college on film. when ray dissappointed at his pro day, the same people said, you can't look at the numbers, you can see on the game film how good he is

And just a year later, he's in the 5s. That must be bigotry-induced speed loss.

[sharpe1027]

40 YARD DASH: 4.91 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 17 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 25.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 114.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.80 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.70 SEC

His numbers were pretty bad.

[smuggler]

7.8 3 cone is basically undraftable as an edge rusher... the reason he got drafted was his college productivity alone. Btw, I think Ray is a better than average bust candidate. The fact he is not a taboobuster is only a slight bonus.

Longer arms than Sam. Bigger frame, with potential for growth. Taller. Drastically better vertical jump and more explosive. Much better all around athlete. Sam would never have been drafted in the first four rounds because of a myriad of things that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I do think it's more than likely that coming out hurt his draft stock a bit, but that was more to do with the media than biggotry on the part of the NFL.

The fact he is not on a roster right now has much more to do with how bad he is than his choice of sexual partner. If Vic Beasley came out a few weeks before the draft, he would absolutely have been drafted by the end of the 3rd round. Probably well before then.

[pbmax]

I will say if he was a UDFA for the Packers (just a hypothetical not an argument) I would have expected him to live at least one year on the PS. Against the Packers, he trashed the RT 3 times in a relatively short time frame and had at least 2 QB hits (1 sack)*. He would have had his own thread here and a bandwagon committee after a performance like that.

Now could he have done that against starters? UDFAs don't often make that leap even after M3 compliments their offseason. But I would have been surprised if he had not been given a year to develop.

But I don't agree it was simple bigotry that caused him only to get a 6 game stint in Dallas on their PS. Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.


*More than the sum total of Jamal Reynolds career

[mraynrand]

Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

[pbmax]

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

Exactly. In order:

1. Production
2. Talent
3. Draft Pick
3. Distraction

And you only get a year or two on talent alone. Change in regime also negates your draft pick status. We could make a board game out of this.

Settlers of the Combine

Now its not fair to either. I think both deserve more of a shot (Tebow* might finally be getting one), but coaches are control freaks and this stuff drives them nuts. I suspect more people are uncomfortable with Sam on their team because questions of religion dividing a team were a settled favorably long ago while a public same-sex preference is very new. The Tebow phenomenon was a singular confluence of events. But the dynamic is along the same lines.

Its going to take a couple of very good players to tamp down the concerns.


* I don't think Tebow is a starting QB, however he is vastly more talented as an offensive threat than 30 of 32 backup QBs. Needing a separate offense is problematic, but Tebow in Philly might develop into a nightmare for opposing defenses, even while he is not a starter.

[red]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

[pbmax]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

The guy I saw work the 2nd string Packer RT did. But could he do that to the 1st string guy?

He needed another year to develop but didn't get it. His vet combine didn't look promising.

[Fritz]

Why not just accuse everyone, except of course yourself - you, the lone bastion of enlightenment, with vulgarity as a co-segregating trait. We here at Packerrats can only be grateful to god to have you as our moral compass.

Red as our moral compass. Damn, I like that!

[red]

7.8 3 cone is basically undraftable as an edge rusher... the reason he got drafted was his college productivity alone. Btw, I think Ray is a better than average bust candidate. The fact he is not a taboobuster is only a slight bonus.

Longer arms than Sam. Bigger frame, with potential for growth. Taller. Drastically better vertical jump and more explosive. Much better all around athlete. Sam would never have been drafted in the first four rounds because of a myriad of things that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I do think it's more than likely that coming out hurt his draft stock a bit, but that was more to do with the media than biggotry on the part of the NFL.

The fact he is not on a roster right now has much more to do with how bad he is than his choice of sexual partner. If Vic Beasley came out a few weeks before the draft, he would absolutely have been drafted by the end of the 3rd round. Probably well before then.

you want to throw out some more flat out lies to try and make your point?

arms-
ray- 33 1/8
sam- 33 3/8

sam has longer arms

weight

ray-245
sam- 261

height

ray-6'3
sam- 6'2

wow, soooo much taller

hands

ray- 9"
sam- 9 3/8

verticle (at mizzou pro day)

ray- 33
sam- 30

wow, 3 inches is drastically better?

the 3 cone, sams big downfall

sam had a 7.80
ray- 7.60

better, but still shitty compared to most. (vic beasly had a 6.91, clay did it in 6.90 for reference)

shuttle

ray 4.58
sam 4.70

both shitty and not that different (cm3 had a 4.18)



mike mayock came out and flat out said ray didn't have a good pro day, said he looked "stiff in the hips", same thing that sam had a problem with

paul dawson, had worse numbers then sam in every category, but went in the third

like i said earlier. when ray didn't do anything at the combine and disappointed at his pro day, the "experts" said, "forget the number, watch the tape"

when sam had a bad combine and pro day, the same exact experts said "forget how good the tape looks, the numbers tell us everything"

[red]

Red as our moral compass. Damn, I like that!

we are all fucked, big time

[red]

The guy I saw work the 2nd string Packer RT did. But could he do that to the 1st string guy?

He needed another year to develop but didn't get it. His vet combine didn't look promising.

can most rookies do that against a first string tackle in their first year?

i'm not saying sam would be a star, or even a starter, but i bet he could be a lot better then a lot of guys currently oin the nfl.

but like you said, why would a coach or GM want that media circus for a career backup?

and it would be like the tebow thing. you would have all kinds of people who have no idea about anything related to football, asking everyday why the guy isn't starting

[3irty1]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

[sharpe1027]

mike mayock came out and flat out said ray didn't have a good pro day, said he looked "stiff in the hips", same thing that sam had a problem with

paul dawson, had worse numbers then sam in every category, but went in the third

like i said earlier. when ray didn't do anything at the combine and disappointed at his pro day, the "experts" said, "forget the number, watch the tape"

when sam had a bad combine and pro day, the same exact experts said "forget how good the tape looks, the numbers tell us everything"

Part of this argument really depends on whether or not you consider pro days equivalent to the official NFL combine. There are some significant differences between the two.

[red]

Part of this argument really depends on whether or not you consider pro days equivalent to the official NFL combine. There are some significant differences between the two.

yeah, but ray didn't do anything at the combine, except the bench, because of a foot injury. a lot of the numbers i'm using for comparisons are from rays pro day at mizzou, and sams pro day, also at mizzou, in the same indoor facility and probably with the same personal running the show and timing it

[red]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

[KYPack]

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

Oh yeah?

I bet Fish was pissed when he heard that shit.

Good to hear you are running the site now, Red.

I doubt you will fuck it up any worse than anybody else has.

[MadScientist]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

He was on the PS at Dallas. PS players share the locker room and team activities as far as I know, they just won't suit up on game day. Dallas is a team that lives on media and distractions. They've kept Brent around who fucking killed one of their teammates. If they thought Sam could play he'd still be with them. His even worse numbers at the veterans' combine suggests that he is not committed to doing what is needed to be in the league.

As for the preseason game where he looked good against the Packers, he was going against Sherrod. He could make any defensive player look good.

[red]

Oh yeah?

I bet Fish was pissed when he heard that shit.

Good to hear you are running the site now, Red.

I doubt you will fuck it up any worse than anybody else has.

i ain't running shit

[pbmax]

He was on the PS at Dallas. PS players share the locker room and team activities as far as I know, they just won't suit up on game day. Dallas is a team that lives on media and distractions. They've kept Brent around who fucking killed one of their teammates. If they thought Sam could play he'd still be with them. His even worse numbers at the veterans' combine suggests that he is not committed to doing what is needed to be in the league.

As for the preseason game where he looked good against the Packers, he was going against Sherrod. He could make any defensive player look good.

One of them was. Another one was after he the other Tackle prospect flipped sides.

[smuggler]

So, here's this. Ty Montgomery vs Damarious Randall...

Ugh..

https://vine.co/v/eZKdOH2pv3Q

[red]

oh god

well at least they both didn't fall down

[red]

reason #875 why you don't draft players from the university of florida

jags rookie, and #3 overall pick donte fowler, tore his ACL in the first day of rookie minicamp and will miss the entire season

according to one person involved with the team, the injury was "brutal"

[pbmax]

oh god

well at least they both didn't fall down

His hip swivel was fine, just 2 seconds too late.

[Carolina_Packer]

That throw was brutal for as much separation as Monty got.

[smuggler]

Red, you're a dumbshit, and more importantly, a cunt. Go crawl in a hole and die, moron.

V I'd say the Montgomery drop is worse, but it is just a practice...

[Pugger]

So, here's this. Ty Montgomery vs Damarious Randall...

Ugh..

https://vine.co/v/eZKdOH2pv3Q

What was worse, Randall getting smoked or Ty dropping the ball?

[red]

Red, you're a dumbshit, and more importantly, a cunt. Go crawl in a hole and die, moron.

V I'd say the Montgomery drop is worse, but it is just a practice...

i know, cold hard facts and numbers are such are so cruel

[yetisnowman]

i know, cold hard facts and numbers are such are so cruel


This dude is the biggest baby. If you disagree with him, or ask him to explain his assertions and hyperbole with facts, he throws and tantrum and cusses people out.

[smuggler]

You don't know the nature of our disagreement, yeti. It is not based on facts.

I call a cunt a cunt 10 times out of 10. If you don't like my honesty, then iI'd guess that says a lot more about you than me. As for red, he's a cunt and that's not going to change.

[yetisnowman]

You don't know the nature of our disagreement, yeti. It is not based on facts.

I call a cunt a cunt 10 times out of 10. If you don't like my honesty, then iI'd guess that says a lot more about you than me. As for red, he's a cunt and that's not going to change.

Did you not call me a cunt and a bitch a month or two ago and threaten to ignore me? If that was someone else I apologize.

[red]

This dude is the biggest baby. If you disagree with him, or ask him to explain his assertions and hyperbole with facts, he throws and tantrum and cusses people out.

yup, our argument goes all the way back to a couple days ago when i linked to a story talking about micheal sam and shane ray, comparing the two, and showing how it didn't look right that sam would be drafted with one of the last picks last year, while his backup in college would be a first rounder

i must have hit a nerve with all the gay talk cause smuggie gave me a negative rep point, with the reason being "stupid"

when he did decide to give a reason why it was "stupid", it was because ray was bigger with longer arms and tested sooo much better then sam did

i gave him a negative rep point then for making an il-informed post that was basicaly made up of bull shit out of the blue

i then let him know in the thread that they are close to the same height, sam has a lot more weight, longer arms, bigger hands, and they both tested about the same (they both tested horribly.

to which he gave me another negative rep point, and threw the little fit that you quoted

so yeah, it seems you're right

[Guiness]

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

Yes, he signed on for a reality show on Oprah TV - it was dropped pretty quickly and he announced he was going to 'concentrate on football'.

Hindsight 20/20, he shoulda kept the show, he might have something to do right now.