PERSONELL EXPERTS COLOR PACKERS a 8-8 TEAM

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/personnel-expert-colors-2014-packers-an-8-8-team-b99354764z1-275906551.html

[Bretsky]

hey....a personnel guy called Sherrod "Just a guy"............has he improved ?

Honestly, a bit surprised by this. I predicted GB to go 11-5 so I'm a bit surprised by the tone there

I'm also surprised Detroit was a one point favorite Sunday and since most money is going with Detroit the line has increased to them being a 2 pt favorite.

[denverYooper]

Quick thoughts:
1.) Bob's latched on to the "last X games" stat.
2.) "An experienced executive in personnel for a National Football League team thinks there is." Fine sentences there, Bob. Did JSO fire their editors?
3.) Bob has no idea how a betting line works.
4.) Josh Sitton, the guy who comes out with a clean sheet every week, and has been in the conversation for 3 years for best guard in the league, is a "player you can win with".

[Joemailman]

I thought the guy's breakdown of the various players and units was fair. I just don't see how he comes up with 8-8. Does he think the 2014 Packers with a healthy Rodgers and Matthews is no better than the 2013 version that missed those guys for half the year?

[denverYooper]

Rodgers is the only pro-bowl player, lol

[Rutnstrut]

8-8 would be disappointing, but not surprising.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wasn't there talk this summer of this being McCarthy's most talented team?

All the grades were reasonable with these mild surprises:
The scout really likes Richard Rogers, has him as a more promising rookie than Ha Ha
Is Barrington better than Latimore?

I like the choice of brown to color the shitty players

[smuggler]

Yes. An 8 win team last year without your elite QB and still the same this year with him. Pathetic evals by 'professionals'.

[ThunderDan]

Yes. An 8 win team last year without your elite QB and still the same this year with him. Pathetic evals by 'professionals'.

That's just what I was thinking. Arod is worth more than half a game improvement by playing all 16 games. Last year Bob had a column on how we could survive an absence of ARod. This year we get this.

[Bretsky]

I think it's fair to say the scout was also considering upgrades the other nfc teams have made as well. I'd bet he thinks both the Bears and Lions have improved more than GB.
It's easy to pick a writer apart on every article; but those in the industry consider McGinn among the best. I'd agree with Joe in that the article, for the most part was fair.
But in my mind at worst they should still have come to the conclusion that at worse they were a marginal playoff team instead of garnering a record that does not get them in the playoffs.
Consider me a homer...I guess

[Bretsky]

Yes. An 8 win team last year without your elite QB and still the same this year with him. Pathetic evals by 'professionals'.

But I think they are also considering the other NFC teams too.
Last year everybody was on board with GB being the elite of the NFC North
I still think we are; but there are MANY in the industry not on board with that
Some think the Lions will win the NFC north and many are picking the Bears
Last year it was all about GB and many of those same pundits were picking GB to the Super Bowl

[Carolina_Packer]

from the article....

"An experienced executive in personnel for a National Football League team thinks there is.

In an extended interview last week, the personnel man assigned a grade to each of the Packers' 60 players for the Journal Sentinel and broke down the roster position-by-position. Selected because of his level of expertise and success in the NFL, he has studied the Packers this summer, this September and for years before that."

Put your name to it, or else it could all just be Bob's agenda. This is not legal case where comments would put the person in jeopardy, so why not put a name to it? Weak stuff that tries and succeeds to gain clicks, but has a weak basis without a named source.

[Fritz]

Okay, Blue Dog - maybe you're right. They missed the "poor" end of the spectrum. Maybe that color coding needed to be more extensive.

Brown - Bad player. Shitty.
Brown, streaked with red - a player who is not only bad but is representative of a larger sickness in the team.
Brown, with corn - bad player, but colorful.
Blackish-brown - a bad player who ate far too much steak the night before.

[smuggler]

Lol Fritz

[wist43]

I think the article was fair - but I'm biased b/c the guy is saying a lot of what I've been saying for a while now.

I think more highly of Nelson that he apparently does; I agree that we are going to struggle to stop the run all year - he doesn't address philosophy in this regard, only evaluates the players, but the players are a reflection of the Packer philosophy that says stopping the run is only an incidental aspect of the game.

He gives higher grades to the OL than I would - but the same issue exists here as with the run defense. The players might be better than what they produce, but MM doesn't put them in good positions to excel b/c he is back to only calling 3 running plays again. When he went to a more diverse play sheet, and incorporated power plays, the OL responded, Lacy improved, and suddenly we had a little bit of a running game.

He rips the ILB's - but of course Stevie Wonder can see how pathetic they are. 1265 can't see it, but everyone else can. I think he is too lenient on the DB's. Burnett looks the part, but the guy simply doesn't make plays. Has the tackling improved?? Couldn't be any worse than last year... seems a bit better, we'll see. I haven't viewed Williams as being in decline - hope he's not.

At the end of the day, the Packers are all about Aaron Rodgers. We have Rodgers, Nelson, and Matthews that are pro bowl caliber players; we have a handful of players just below that level - Shields, Williams, Lacy, and I think maybe Daniels.

On offense, the OL is average across the board and the depth is poor; Cobb is okay, but the other receivers are below average at this point; the TE's are junk.

On defense, there are some good players up front, but of course they are not used to their strengths. I think Perry and D. Jones are better than what they are producing, but I put that on dunderdummy; the DB depth might be okay, but between TT playing musical chairs and injuries it is a stretch to think that unit can be consistently effective against top-flight competition.

I had us at 11-5 this year... and we can maybe still get to that level, but we are still a flawed team. I thought we might have the talent to at least be in the conversation for a Superbowl, but the Packers flawed philosophies haven't been addressed, and the players don't seem to be developing and stepping up.

8-8 is still a bit harsh... with Rodgers we should be in the 9-7 to 11-5 range; but I don't see how we can advance past the more phsycial teams that are philosophically sound. They just beat us up, and there's nothing we can do about it.

[wist43]

But I think they are also considering the other NFC teams too.
Last year everybody was on board with GB being the elite of the NFC North
I still think we are; but there are MANY in the industry not on board with that
Some think the Lions will win the NFC north and many are picking the Bears
Last year it was all about GB and many of those same pundits were picking GB to the Super Bowl

Overall, the Lions have better personnel than we do... it all comes down to Stafford vs. Rodgers.

If Stafford has truly improved his game, the Lions should win the division.

Chicago is just below us I think, but they have more skill position talent than we do.

Minnesota losing Peterson kills them, so they're not in the conversation anymore.

[pbmax]

One of Bob's longtime sources is Bill Polian. He's not the only one, but this took time to do, so has to be someone he knows well.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Brown, with corn - bad player, but colorful.

That works. But I would use this for a new player who hasn't fully digested the packer system.

Also, as to whether the player has any future at all in NFL, you might go with floaters and sinkers.

[Packgator]

That's the best McGinn and the journal can come up with on a game day Sunday morning? McGinn referred to the person he interviewed as an "expert", an "executive", and a "scout".

The article is about individual/position personnel as some "unnamed expert/executive/scout" views things. The "unnamed expert/executive/scout" picked Minnesota to win the NFC North. The "unnamed expert/executive/scout " must think Minnesota is the best team with the best personnel in the division. I'd like to know what team the unnamed "expert/executive/scout" works for. I hope he has a lifetime contract with them.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Put your name to it, or else it could all just be Bob's agenda.

If you think McGinn is a sleazeball, then ignore it. If you think McGinn has been an honest pundit over years, then trust him. Your choice.

I have no problem with an anonymous analyst. His employer undoubtedly doesn't want the organization's views on players known.

[Joemailman]

from the article....

"An experienced executive in personnel for a National Football League team thinks there is.

In an extended interview last week, the personnel man assigned a grade to each of the Packers' 60 players for the Journal Sentinel and broke down the roster position-by-position. Selected because of his level of expertise and success in the NFL, he has studied the Packers this summer, this September and for years before that."

Put your name to it, or else it could all just be Bob's agenda. This is not legal case where comments would put the person in jeopardy, so why not put a name to it? Weak stuff that tries and succeeds to gain clicks, but has a weak basis without a named source.

I'm hoping it's Matt Millen.

[wist43]

You guys get so offended that football nation doesn't acknowledge that the Packers have 60 pro bowlers, lol...

I think we got a lot of SB hype in the preseason b/c everyone thinks we should be better - afterall, we have arguably the best QB in the league; but when reality sets in, the flaws are there for everyone to see.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I'm hoping it's Matt Millen.

McGinn is a good reporter. I am sure he adheres to strict journalism ethics, and he would not have made up a source out of the blue.

It seems like McGinn's Deep Throat currently is employed by an NFL team.

"Selected because of his level of expertise and success in the NFL, he has studied the Packers this summer, this September and for years before that...His preseason pick to win the NFC North was Minnesota. "

Using inductive reasoning, I've come to the conclusion that this Deep Throat is none other than Rick Spielman, GM of the Vikings, or "Queens."

Believe it or not, the Vikings actually experienced success under Speilman. They were 13-3 or something like that one season, reached the NFC Title game and, if not for a Brad Childress fuck up late in the game (illegal substitution, I think, to put the Queens out of fg range), they would've made the SB. :)

[Harlan Huckleby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL2prMmPmQ4

[pbmax]

You guys get so offended that football nation doesn't acknowledge that the Packers have 60 pro bowlers, lol...

I think we got a lot of SB hype in the preseason b/c everyone thinks we should be better - afterall, we have arguably the best QB in the league; but when reality sets in, the flaws are there for everyone to see.

Your mind reading powers are at low ebb this morning. I am less offended that he doesn't see 60 Packer Pro Bowlers than I am that he sees the Vikings winning the Division.

[red]

i would think we are a 9-7 or 10-6 type of team

i see the lions and bears as teams on the rise, while i honestly see us as regressing if anything

a-rod seems to be regressing, even though he had a huge day last week. he's making a lot of dumb decisions all of a sudden, almost like no one is willing to tell him "NO". and i find it absolutely shocking that our special teams and defense both seem to be almost worse then they were last year when they were both horrible

lets also no forget the year is still young, even though we've already lost a good amount of players for the year the usual packer injury bug hasn't fully hit yet this year.we're due some more major injuries before the season is over. its just the packer way

[Tyrion Lannister]

I think the article was fair - but I'm biased b/c the guy is saying a lot of what I've been saying for a while now.

I think more highly of Nelson that he apparently does; I agree that we are going to struggle to stop the run all year - he doesn't address philosophy in this regard, only evaluates the players, but the players are a reflection of the Packer philosophy that says stopping the run is only an incidental aspect of the game.

He gives higher grades to the OL than I would - but the same issue exists here as with the run defense. The players might be better than what they produce, but MM doesn't put them in good positions to excel b/c he is back to only calling 3 running plays again. When he went to a more diverse play sheet, and incorporated power plays, the OL responded, Lacy improved, and suddenly we had a little bit of a running game.

He rips the ILB's - but of course Stevie Wonder can see how pathetic they are. 1265 can't see it, but everyone else can. I think he is too lenient on the DB's. Burnett looks the part, but the guy simply doesn't make plays. Has the tackling improved?? Couldn't be any worse than last year... seems a bit better, we'll see. I haven't viewed Williams as being in decline - hope he's not.

At the end of the day, the Packers are all about Aaron Rodgers. We have Rodgers, Nelson, and Matthews that are pro bowl caliber players; we have a handful of players just below that level - Shields, Williams, Lacy, and I think maybe Daniels.

On offense, the OL is average across the board and the depth is poor; Cobb is okay, but the other receivers are below average at this point; the TE's are junk.

On defense, there are some good players up front, but of course they are not used to their strengths. I think Perry and D. Jones are better than what they are producing, but I put that on dunderdummy; the DB depth might be okay, but between TT playing musical chairs and injuries it is a stretch to think that unit can be consistently effective against top-flight competition.

I had us at 11-5 this year... and we can maybe still get to that level, but we are still a flawed team. I thought we might have the talent to at least be in the conversation for a Superbowl, but the Packers flawed philosophies haven't been addressed, and the players don't seem to be developing and stepping up.

8-8 is still a bit harsh... with Rodgers we should be in the 9-7 to 11-5 range; but I don't see how we can advance past the more phsycial teams that are philosophically sound. They just beat us up, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Good post. But I can't recall how many times I've read quotes from Capers about stopping the run being top priority with his defense.

I don't think Capers' philosophy toward stopping the run is "only an incidental aspect of the game." The DL and ILBs suck along with the safeties. That's on the GM.

[wist43]

Your mind reading powers are at low ebb this morning. I am less offended that he doesn't see 60 Packer Pro Bowlers than I am that he sees the Vikings winning the Division.

Yeah, the Viking thing is a head scratcher... I figured they'd be vastly improved, but win the division??

As for my mind reading powers - I have a terrible hangover, lol... I never, or at least rarely drink, but my brother had a big birthday bash last night, and I stayed about 3 drinks too long :glug:

[Packgator]

You guys get so offended that football nation doesn't acknowledge that the Packers have 60 pro bowlers

Not offended. Just think the guy is an idiot for picking the Vikings to win the division.

[pbmax]

a-rod seems to be regressing, even though he had a huge day last week. he's making a lot of dumb decisions all of a sudden, almost like no one is willing to tell him "NO". and i find it absolutely shocking that our special teams and defense both seem to be almost worse then they were last year when they were both horrible

Football Outsiders rank the Packer Special Teams 2nd overall through week 2. Its the highest ranked Unit on the team (Offense 10th, Defense 23rd).

[Bretsky]

they look like a 8-8 today

Today Aaron Rodgers looked more like David Whitehurst that Brett Favre

He needs to be on his game or we will not beat anybody worth beans on the road

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

they look like a 8-8 today

Today Aaron Rodgers looked more like David Whitehurst that Brett Favre

He needs to be on his game or we will not beat anybody worth beans on the road

You are being generous. The way this team is playing, I think many of us will be hoping for 8-8 by end of the year.

[red]

i agree they look like 8-8 after today

so, the question becomes. how?

how has this team regressed so much? we should be better then last year because are guys are healthy and we have added some talent at positions where we needed some.

so what the fuck has happened?

to me, its fat mike. time for him to go. he's lost any edge he might have had, and he's too loyal to his shitty assistants

[Fritz]

i agree they look like 8-8 after today

so, the question becomes. how?

how has this team regressed so much? we should be better then last year because are guys are healthy and we have added some talent at positions where we needed some.

so what the fuck has happened?

to me, its fat mike. time for him to go. he's lost any edge he might have had, and he's too loyal to his shitty assistants



He certainly didn't do anything to get the offense on track in the second half. I think the offense was piss poor, especially the offensive line, and MM did nothing to mitigate that until too too late when he started having Rodgers throw shorter.

And was Adams open for the first down on that fourth down play?

And what the hell is wrong with Lacey? Since when did he become a dancing bear?

Ya know, if this turns out to be another "meh" campaign, I will climb on board the fire Mike train.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I agree the coaches need to be gone, but we all know that ain't gonna happen until a whole season of this shit, and then maybe not.

[Infamous]

Nature of the league; it will be a roller-coaster year across the board.

[red]

He certainly didn't do anything to get the offense on track in the second half. I think the offense was piss poor, especially the offensive line, and MM did nothing to mitigate that until too too late when he started having Rodgers throw shorter.

And was Adams open for the first down on that fourth down play?

And what the hell is wrong with Lacey? Since when did he become a dancing bear?

Ya know, if this turns out to be another "meh" campaign, I will climb on board the fire Mike train.

i don't know if it was adams or someone else. but someone was running a short slant in front of jordy and appeared to have a step on his guy, at right about the first down marker.

of course jordy also had a step on his guy, but a-rod missed him

you'd think though that the shorter pass would have been easier to hit, AND SEE

[pbmax]

i agree they look like 8-8 after today

so, the question becomes. how?

how has this team regressed so much? we should be better then last year because are guys are healthy and we have added some talent at positions where we needed some.

so what the fuck has happened?

to me, its fat mike. time for him to go. he's lost any edge he might have had, and he's too loyal to his shitty assistants

He has lost Jennings two years ago, Jones and Finley this year. They haven't been replaced yet. Boykin has regressed and Rodgers doesn't trust the rookie WR.

Lacy started slow last year and actually was more effective when Rodgers was on the sideline.

They are going to need a midseason retooling again. The no huddle is not helping.

[channtheman]

i agree they look like 8-8 after today

so, the question becomes. how?

how has this team regressed so much? we should be better then last year because are guys are healthy and we have added some talent at positions where we needed some.

so what the fuck has happened?

to me, its fat mike. time for him to go. he's lost any edge he might have had, and he's too loyal to his shitty assistants


You got it red. It's time for a massive turnover. I actually think we may need to be looking at TT. He hasn't replaced talent quite like he should be. It looks like we finally have Nick Collins replacement in Haha, what 4 years later? Our WR depth which used to be a strength, is now atrocious. The LB have started AJ Hawk for nearly 10 years and has also allowed the same mediocre talent to also start year after year. It feels like we need a change starting at the top.

[esoxx]

It's startling to see three recent 1st round picks already described as JAG's by this unnamed source. Sherrod, Perry, and Jones. But I have to agree.

Missing that many high picks in a row leaves a talent void of impact type players. TT deserves some heat for that.

[Rutnstrut]

I've said it before on here and been crucified for it. The whole coaching staff and a lot of the front office or at least TT need to be fired. If you can't see that they are happy to sit on their laurels and remember the "glory days" you are blind. Also they should trade mathhews and let him be a part time employee for someone else.

[Striker]

"Gee Mike, I sure am happy being mediocre, aren't you?"

"Damn straight Ted."

I bet that's EXACTLY how that goes.

[denverYooper]

You guys are a bunch of pussies. This team looks like 2010 all over again.