More Banjo: @ Lions Week 3

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 6m
McCarthy: I like the mechanics of how we game planned. This was more about taking advantage of opportunities. #GBvsDET

Translation: Should have worked and was open. Doesn't realize players aren't capable of making that play yet though.

I generally find the critique of McCarthy being stubborn just lazily blaming poor outcomes. But this is where McCarthy's entire hurts. He trusts the system more than anything and in general that is as it should be. Makes it predictable for players to learn, gives backups a shot at contributing, etc.

But when it ain't working, it ain't working.

[Fritz]

Is he saying that the offensive line just didn't block for shit, and Boykin didn't catch for shit?

[pbmax]

Is he saying that the offensive line just didn't block for shit, and Boykin didn't catch for shit?

I think Boykin yes. I would bet he thinks there were holes to run in but they didn't get the correct read enough by the RB.

[Carolina_Packer]

Is he saying that the offensive line just didn't block for shit, and Boykin didn't catch for shit?

I'd say that's fair. Also, where is the YAC? It's like Rodgers is throwing to guys in tight coverage, pretty much always who get tackled almost right away. Where is Cobb?

[Fritz]

I think Boykin yes. I would bet he thinks there were holes to run in but they didn't get the correct read enough by the RB.


To me, that's on Lacey and Harris. On one carry Starks saw nowhere to go, so he jammed into the LOS and got about three. That was better than Lacey's losses or Harris's losses. I don't get this trying to get outside when they know what kind of line and linebackers the Lions have.

Sounds like MM is dropping this one at the players' feet. Hope he's screaming at them right now, and when he gets home his wife screams at him.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

And again, the Packers receivers take FOREVER and a day to get open. And this against a Lion's secondary that is supposed to be hurting.

[Fritz]

yeah, they were singularly unimpressive, were they not?

[pbmax]

Not for nothing, but in the player's red doesn't like department, Burnett had a terrible half assed attempt to stop Bush short of his touchdown. He dived and hit nothing,

[pbmax]

To me, that's on Lacey and Harris. On one carry Starks saw nowhere to go, so he jammed into the LOS and got about three. That was better than Lacey's losses or Harris's losses. I don't get this trying to get outside when they know what kind of line and linebackers the Lions have.

Sounds like MM is dropping this one at the players' feet. Hope he's screaming at them right now, and when he gets home his wife screams at him.

It was damn clear on the TV and I assume in the booth that Starks could read where the holes were.

[Fritz]

I wonder what has happened to Lacey? Last year he seemed to have a great feel for the creases and holes, now he's bouncing most everything outside.

[denverYooper]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 2m
#Packers RB Eddie Lacy seemed perplexed about run game: "Don't know if I have to be more patient or speed things up."

[denverYooper]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1m
Lions CB Darius Slay: "Our thing was to stop Jordy. We did that and made the other people beat us."

[red]

Not for nothing, but in the player's red doesn't like department, Burnett had a terrible half assed attempt to stop Bush short of his touchdown. He dived and hit nothing,

i think its becoming more and more clear that our 2 best safeties are hyde and Haha.

they are the future at least

how bout big props for a safety getting an INT?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 1m
Lions CB Darius Slay: "Our thing was to stop Jordy. We did that and made the other people beat us."

Yes, yes they did.

[digitaldean]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 2m
#Packers RB Eddie Lacy seemed perplexed about run game: "Don't know if I have to be more patient or speed things up."

Seemed that Lacy was doing too much east/west running instead of north/south. He is the LAST guy to be dancing around from sideline to sideline. He is the battering ram. If there is even a tiny crease, he should be hitting it and making his own holes.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/275944591.html


And so they [Detroit] protected their injury-decimated secondary, which was on its fifth and sixth cornerback in its nickel package after Don Carey left with a hamstring injury, by playing both safeties deep and wide in zone coverage, letting their corners cover man-to-man, and having their linebackers ignore play-action and take away the middle of the field.

So let's say TEs are not an option because if they are in they are blocking first and releasing second. The answer to this, if Lacy can't get yardage, was to put Starks in who clearly knew where to go.

So how was it that he disappeared? That is the question that should be asked this week.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I'm no football genius, I'm just old, but I can still see. And what I see for the most part is a very slow Packer team. And this problem seems to be getting worse. So I understand you cannot teach fast/speed, but the Packer coaches sure seem good at teaching slow.

[channtheman]

It's very difficult for a running back to read the right hole when MM calls the halfback toss 8 times in the game. When a RB is looking at the ball that is being pitched the length of a handoff, he cannot correctly read the gaps because he has to catch the ball. MM loves his stupid halfback toss play that he came up with a few years ago and runs it constantly. MM is to blame for people not finding the right holes, not the RB's.

[channtheman]

I will agree that Lacy dances too much. He seems to think he can juke guys instead of just plowing through them. This is also on the coaches. You have a clearly confused 2nd year player and who is helping him? Where are the coaches?

[denverYooper]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/275944591.html



So let's say TEs are not an option because if they are in they are blocking first and releasing second. The answer to this, if Lacy can't get yardage, was to put Starks in who clearly knew where to go.

So how was it that he disappeared? That is the question that should be asked this week.

The only answer I can come up with is that Lacy is the best all around RB they have, they like him in pass pro a lot more, and they felt like they'd eventually get opportunities to exploit the Lions secondary for explosive plays. M3 has been fond of referencing the count of explosive plays for vs against this year and it seems that thinking has surfaced in his public analysis lately, even though it's been apparent to Packers fans for 5 years.

[denverYooper]

I will agree that Lacy dances too much. He seems to think he can juke guys instead of just plowing through them. This is also on the coaches. You have a clearly confused 2nd year player and who is helping him? Where are the coaches?

Lacy had a tough sled in Ford field last year too, but he really started to excel as a feature back getting 20+ carries a game when Rodgers was down.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Another question that should be asked: Why did Stubby decide to establish the run game first against the Lions who have a banged up secondary? Wouldn't it make more sense to establish the passing game first?

[King Friday]

Lacy had a tough sled in Ford field last year too, but he really started to excel as a feature back getting 20+ carries a game when Rodgers was down.

Lacy is worthless on turf. He's a plodder. He'll be great in Lambeau come November...but on a fast track, the guy is a liability IMO. Starks should be the feature back on fast tracks.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maybe the Packers should purchase some game film of the Broncos and Peyton Manning so Stubby can learn how it's done.

[pbmax]

Another question that should be asked: Why did Stubby decide to establish the run game first against the Lions who have a banged up secondary? Wouldn't it make more sense to establish the passing game first?

Trying to avoid a jailbreak with an injured starter and new starter on the O line, on the road versus a lot of noise.

[denverYooper]

TJ Lang ‏@TJLang70 5m
You "bloggers" out there are "bloggers" for a reason. You don't know shit about what we do.

[pbmax]

TJ is firing on all cylinders on Twitter, too bad it wasn't true of his run block in front of the end zone.

TJ Lang ‏@TJLang70 2h
“@kdbeeson: @NdamukongSuh works his magic with @TJLang70 early in today's Lions-Packers game. #lionspride pic.twitter.com/RGoh6XRTDW” magic?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByGZ2FTCcAAISv9.jpg

[pbmax]

http://allgbp.com/2014/09/21/mike-mccarthy-displays-his-own-polluted-mindset/

Apparently, JerseyAl has not made the connection to the West Coast Offense that explains this mindset.

[Rutnstrut]

Lang is one of my favorite Packers, but he sounds like a whiner there.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 9m
Davante Adams on @Cover_2 on Rodgers yelling at him: "I saw the wrong [signal]."

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 8m
Adams: "The good thing is when we went into the season, me and Aaron got on the same page a lot more and he's built up more trust in me."

[Tyrion Lannister]

http://allgbp.com/2014/09/21/mike-mccarthy-displays-his-own-polluted-mindset/

Apparently, JerseyAl has not made the connection to the West Coast Offense that explains this mindset.

I agree with the article.

It's rare nowadays to find a team that runs the classic WCO of Walsh and Holmgren. McCarthy's modified version of the WCO has became too predictable.

Fat Mac oughta watch some films of Arizona's offense. Arians is creative.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers said in his PC said they didn't do a very good job of adjusting to the Lions defensive scheme. Whether he was talking about MM's play-calling, his own adjustments at the line of scrimmage, protection schemes, or receivers adjusting routes I'm not sure. I'm wondering what the lions did that was so hard to figure out. Were they really surprised that the Lions came out and doubled Jordy after what he did to the Jets?

[denverYooper]

Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete 31m
Giants-Lions in Week 1 made it look like NY's offense was terrible, but maybe instead Detroit's defense is just great.

[ThunderDan]

TJ is firing on all cylinders on Twitter, too bad it wasn't true of his run block in front of the end zone.

TJ Lang ‏@TJLang70 2h
“@kdbeeson: @NdamukongSuh works his magic with @TJLang70 early in today's Lions-Packers game. #lionspride pic.twitter.com/RGoh6XRTDW” magic?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByGZ2FTCcAAISv9.jpg

And that is a perfect example of illegal hands to the face.

[pbmax]

Rodgers said in his PC said they didn't do a very good job of adjusting to the Lions defensive scheme. Whether he was talking about MM's play-calling, his own adjustments at the line of scrimmage, protection schemes, or receivers adjusting routes I'm not sure. I'm wondering what the lions did that was so hard to figure out. Were they really surprised that the Lions came out and doubled Jordy after what he did to the Jets?

They were planning on seeing single-high safety due to Lacy. They got 2-high and rotation over Nelson. The more alarming part is that until the last drive, there didn't seem to be plan B.

Like other purveyors of WCO, the coach is depending on winning one on one match ups in the offense due to superior preparation, execution and design. Its not happening. Trust issues, Boykin's dip in execution, Cobb not having a big role (and couple drops), no TEs.

McCarthy's faith in the system has produced players and production in areas that never looked promising. He has a track record here and he isn't going to alter the offense until midseason if past results is indicative of future performance.

[denverYooper]

I wonder if Aaron confides in Olivia that he has "trust issues".

[Maxie the Taxi]

They were planning on seeing single-high safety due to Lacy. They got 2-high and rotation over Nelson. The more alarming part is that until the last drive, there didn't seem to be plan B.

Like other purveyors of WCO, the coach is depending on winning one on one match ups in the offense due to superior preparation, execution and design. Its not happening. Trust issues, Boykin's dip in execution, Cobb not having a big role (and couple drops), no TEs.

McCarthy's faith in the system has produced players and production in areas that never looked promising. He has a track record here and he isn't going to alter the offense until midseason if past results is indicative of future performance.

That's why we call him Stubby.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I'm wondering what the lions did that was so hard to figure out.

Detriot didn't do anything McCarthy, Rodgers and Co. weren't familiar with. Pretty much did what Seattle and SF like to do.

Cover-2, pressure QB with 4-men rush, stop run without putting a saftey in the box. Arizona, with Drew Fucking Stanton, and SD were able to beat these types of defenses in past weeks.

Fat Mac is too stupid to adjust, too stubborn to alter his predictable offense. Rodgers is playing like a bum. Lucy is playing like a bum.

When your OFFENSE gave up more points than it scored, that's a recipe for disaster.

[pbmax]

That's why we call him Stubby.

Taken to an appropriate length, its a strength. Terrible coaches (think about Ray Rhodes in 1999) are always changing things up and altering the focus of the team.

Refusal to change gives you Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier or Jim Schwartz.

However, its clear, whether its Boykin, Cobb, the TEs or run blocking, that the offense that is out there is not doing what he expects it to be capable of. Whether it will or expectations need to be altered is TBD.

[pbmax]

Detriot didn't do anything McCarthy, Rodgers and Co. weren't familiar with. Pretty much did what Seattle and SF like to do.

Cover-2, pressure QB with 4-men rush, stop run without putting a saftey in the box. Arizona, with Drew Fucking Stanton, and SD were able to beat these types of defenses in past weeks.

Fat Mac is too stupid to adjust, too stubborn to alter his predictable offense. Rodgers is playing like a bum. Lucy is playing like a bum.

When your OFFENSE gave up more points than it scored, that's a recipe for disaster.

Seattle plays single-high safety with Thomas back and human cyborg Chancellor up on the LOS. Agree on last point. Nothing tells the story of that game like that fact.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Seattle plays single-high safety with Thomas back and human cyborg Chancellor up on the LOS. Agree on last point. Nothing tells the story of that game like that fact.

You are probably right with Seattle. They have good corners that can play man. But from what I've seen, they're pretty much a 4 men rush team on passing downs. Their LBs can cover.

[MadScientist]

Rodgers said in his PC said they didn't do a very good job of adjusting to the Lions defensive scheme. Whether he was talking about MM's play-calling, his own adjustments at the line of scrimmage, protection schemes, or receivers adjusting routes I'm not sure. I'm wondering what the lions did that was so hard to figure out. Were they really surprised that the Lions came out and doubled Jordy after what he did to the Jets?

Especially since they even said they were going to make sure they knew were Jordy was on every play. They have no other receiver at the moment. Cobb has played himself out of a big second contract, either because he lost a step from the injury or is at best an average #3. Boykin has regressed to the point of just being a special teamer, and Adams makes too many mistakes for Rodgers. All the tight ends combined aren't worth a bucket of shit. Fuck it, start activating Janis and give him one or two routes and see if he can make a play here or there. Somebody has to do something or this season is fucked.

[Joemailman]

Stephen Tulloch tore his ACL on his sack celebration/discount doublecheck/belt/taunt. http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/22/detroit-lions-stephen-tulloch-acl-celebrating-sack

[denverYooper]

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 3m
MM: Pass protection unit did a good job. Perimeter had six drops. "We have to catch the ball much better."

Going off of memory, I had Boykin and Cobb each with 2, Adams with 1?

Plus at least 1 communication breakdown each btw Rodgers-Boykin and Rodgers-Adams.

Does Starks's drop count?

[denverYooper]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 9m
McCarthy on Rodgers' comments about GB problems adjusting: The only correction I'd make is attacking it sooner, attacking their 2 deep.

Paul Imig ‏@Paulimig 3m
McCarthy when asked whether Rodgers can change run to pass: "Scheme is not a crutch. Execution … was clearly not good enough." #Packers

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3m
McCarthy: "If you have a run, and they're playing two deep, you should be able to run the ball. That's elementary football."

Paul Imig ‏@Paulimig 2m
McCarthy: "Eddie (Lacy) needs to play better. … Running game wasn't what it needed to be. Not even close." #Packers

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 1m
McCarthy: "Eddie needs to play better. I don't correct individuals in the media."

Ryan Wood ‏@ByRyanWood 4m
MM on Eddie Lacy: "Eddie needs to play better."
Then he paused.
"I'm not going to do this anymore. I don't correct individuals in media."

[Joemailman]

trey wingo @wingoz · Sep 21
Lions gonna beat the Packers. Which means, GB will win the Super Bowl!!! Only other time Rodgers lost to Detroit? 2010. #yourewelcomeAmerica

[Joemailman]

More
Luke Rodgers @thelukerodgers · 21h
What a novel idea to create mismatches, strategically move personnel around, use diversion concepts and create confusion for the defense.
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 16 times16 FavoriteFavorited 17 times17
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Luke Rodgers @thelukerodgers · 21h
Watching the offensive creativity in these late games is making me nauseous.
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[HarveyWallbangers]

It didn't dawn on me before, but this is the third straight year the Packers have started 1-2. Wish they would get off to faster starts. They did follow up those starts with a 4-0 stretch last year and 6-1 stretch in 2012. Hopefully, we'll see something similar.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It didn't dawn on me before, but this is the third straight year the Packers have started 1-2.

I think I was more discouraged in past seasons. The defense is improving. Also, I feel good about the offensive line, they will come together just fine. Rodgers will get hot, make those chump wide outs look like players.

[Joemailman]

It didn't dawn on me before, but this is the third straight year the Packers have started 1-2. Wish they would get off to faster starts. They did follow up those starts with a 4-0 stretch last year and 6-1 stretch in 2012. Hopefully, we'll see something similar.

It's frustrating that they usually find themselves with their back to the wall this time of year, but they usually do respond pretty well. To me this feels different than past years because of the way the Packers offense has struggled though.

[denverYooper]

It didn't dawn on me before, but this is the third straight year the Packers have started 1-2. Wish they would get off to faster starts. They did follow up those starts with a 4-0 stretch last year and 6-1 stretch in 2012. Hopefully, we'll see something similar.

Yea, it does seem like we often have this angst in the first 4-6 games over M3's teams. For a couple of years there, they had difficulty with Lovie's Bears early in the season (James Jones fumble) and usually played better against them later. To M3's credit, his teams usually get better as the season goes on. If it's because, as max often mentions, he's actually very good at in-season adjustment or because, as 31 has suggested, M3 sets up plays to troll later season film reads, they do usually look more competent later in the year.

I'm not too worried yet. Ford Field has been tough for the Packers and the Lions usually seem to be better earlier in the year but then slowly fizzle in the back half.

[pbmax]

From Yoop's Baranczyk link about the no-huddle in the GBPG:


Jones' best game

Second-year defensive lineman Datone Jones is improving in the Packers' new, more attacking style with their defensive line, which is smaller than in recent years. Jones played 36 snaps (48 percent of the defensive total) and had maybe the best game (five tackles) of his young career. He also helped cause one of Stafford's interceptions early in the second quarter when he beat guard Larry Warford as an inside rusher. That forced Stafford off his spot just before he threw the deep pass to Calvin Johnson that cornerback Davon House intercepted.

Good to finally hear positive news about the kid.

[call_me_ishmael]

You are probably right with Seattle. They have good corners that can play man. But from what I've seen, they're pretty much a 4 men rush team on passing downs. Their LBs can cover.

I disagree. It seems like they run blitz every running play.

[3irty1]

From Yoop's Baranczyk link about the no-huddle in the GBPG:



Good to finally hear positive news about the kid.

I remember that play, we gotta get a vine or gif of it on here. He absolutely destroyed one of the best young guards in the game.

[3irty1]

Also props to Blocktiari, he was our best lineman against a guy who schooled him last year. Whether its his gains in the weight room showing or just his pride as a professional, he's the man.

[George Cumby]

Also props to Blocktiari, he was our best lineman against a guy who schooled him last year. Whether its his gains in the weight room showing or just his pride as a professional, he's the man.

"Blocktari". That's awesome.

[pbmax]

Bowen with a play diagram, says no one is open. Question for KYPack, ex-quarterbacks talk all the time about moving safeties with their eyes. Is this frowned upon in 2 deep because the safety is much closer, or is Bowen just not considering the offense's options?

The TE is open as well, might not go for a first, but ...


Matt Bowen ‏@MattBowen41 1h
#Lions-#Packers: 2-Man. FS/SS play w/ depth in deep half + man-under. Nowhere for Rodgers to go w/ the ball. Sack.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByRATmvCYAExKWo.png

[MadScientist]

Bowen with a play diagram, says no one is open. Question for KYPack, ex-quarterbacks talk all the time about moving safeties with their eyes. Is this frowned upon in 2 deep because the safety is much closer, or is Bowen just not considering the offense's options?

The TE is open as well, might not go for a first, but ...


Matt Bowen ‏@MattBowen41 1h
#Lions-#Packers: 2-Man. FS/SS play w/ depth in deep half + man-under. Nowhere for Rodgers to go w/ the ball. Sack.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByRATmvCYAExKWo.png

I don't get why he can't just dump it to the TE and get a 2-3 yards. If the TE was actually fast it would gain 5-7.

[Fritz]

Bowen with a play diagram, says no one is open. Question for KYPack, ex-quarterbacks talk all the time about moving safeties with their eyes. Is this frowned upon in 2 deep because the safety is much closer, or is Bowen just not considering the offense's options?

The TE is open as well, might not go for a first, but ...


Matt Bowen ‏@MattBowen41 1h
#Lions-#Packers: 2-Man. FS/SS play w/ depth in deep half + man-under. Nowhere for Rodgers to go w/ the ball. Sack.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByRATmvCYAExKWo.png


Isn't this the play in which your receiver - the one at about the 46 yard line in the middle of the field - races past his man for a strike up the middle? You've got the safeties nearly split. Could it be that the wide receive core, as a whole, just isn't playing up to snuff? What the heck is wrong with Randall Cobb?

[pbmax]

It is, there is also the receiver on the Offense's right sideline who has lots of space between himself and OOB.

The only bad thing here is that you probably would prefer an outside release for the recover on the left. It would open the middle up more.

If Jennings was running those routes in the Super Bowl, I bet the ball gets thrown. I don't think he is happy with Boykin or Cobb at this point.

You should still be able to influence the safety, but not as much as single high.

[pbmax]

Apprpos of above play diagram, Rodgers on their execution versus the Cover 2:


“A lot of times, the inside guy has to win when you’ve got two-high safeties because the middle is kind of the soft spot, especially when it’s man-under. We didn’t win in the middle enough.”

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/page.php?feed=2&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&id=16201&is_corp=1

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't get why he can't just dump it to the TE and get a 2-3 yards. If the TE was actually fast it would gain 5-7.

It looks like this is 3rd and ~12. A 2-7 yard gain would help very little.

[hoosier]

So the million dollar questions are, what is ailing Cobb and Bostick, and why can't Cobb get open against Detroit's mediocre nickel backs?

[Zool]

I read somewhere that Bostick played on ST this week. I haven't watched the game, but is that true?

[pbmax]

I read somewhere that Bostick played on ST this week. I haven't watched the game, but is that true?

Yes. Quarless got the bulk of the snaps at TE. Rodgers, the nominal starter, got half his count. I didn't see Bostick on O.

[Zool]

Yes. Quarless got the bulk of the snaps at TE. Rodgers, the nominal starter, got half his count. I didn't see Bostick on O.

Wonder why Bostick isn't getting snaps. Quarless is pulling the same plow down the field that Kuhn uses and Rodgers looks lost and confused.

[pbmax]

Wonder why Bostick isn't getting snaps. Quarless is pulling the same plow down the field that Kuhn uses and Rodgers looks lost and confused.

Limited snap count, maybe. Coming off injury.

[wist43]

Rodgers looks like a plodder - maybe he needs to drop some weight, but good grief he looks useless out there.

We miss Finley a lot... without a threat up the seam, it only makes sense that teams can forget about the TE's and focus on the WR's.

I still have hope for this team, but unless the coaching staff starts catering to the talent available, as opposed to the talent they used to have, it's going to be a long, losing season. I don't think we'll have a losing season, but it sure looks possible at this point.

[pbmax]

Finley post injury was useless up the seam. But he could outrun a LB and get you that first down on a crossing route. But since that is all he wanted to run, it becomes predictable too.