Official Packers/Vikings Discussion Thread Week 5

[Joemailman]

Packers favored by 9

Last Viking win in Green Bay was 2009 Favre Homecoming Game

Bridgewater did not practice today.

[channtheman]

I'll be there. Guaranteed win. Big win too. 35-10 Packers.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 4h4 hours ago
#Packers who did not practice today: Barrington, Boyd, Boykin. Matthews was a full participant, B. Jones was limited.

[red]

I would say brad jones is very limited

[George Cumby]

I would say brad jones is very limited

Hopefully to carrying water.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I watched Minnesota against Atlanta and they looked good. Asiata and McKinnon at RB consistently gashed Atlanta. Their receivers are top notch...as good or better than ours. A lot hinges on whether Bridgewater is ready to play. The kid is the real deal. Also, they're banged up pretty good. Kyle Rudolph and Greenway are also big injury question marks. If Bridgewater and Rudolph play, it could be a nail biter.

[mission]

Let 'em run... they won't beat us with that.

And Red-- great Randy avatar. Want a cheeseburger? One of the few good things to come out of Canada: TPB

[smuggler]

The Vikings have the best O-line in the division. They will definitely be able to run on us. We have to play good coverage and not miss tackles. Their defense doesn't scare me, but if we make too many mistakes, it's a game we could easily lose.

[ThunderDan]

Must win game against a divisonal foe. Pack will win.

Had to sell our tickets because I am on vacation.

[gbgary]

with bridgewater's ankle the Packers better not fall for any of that option crap. he won't be running. also...I'm watching the min v atl game rewind... he threw to the backs a lot.

[Freak Out]

Nine points? Hmmm....not sure about that.

[Joemailman]

Could be thunderstorms during the game. Don't think you can predict who that might favor. Kind of depends on who can hold onto the ball the best.

[KYPack]

with bridgewater's ankle the Packers better not fall for any of that option crap. he won't be running. also...I'm watching the min v atl game rewind... he threw to the backs a lot.

Yep, he did.

Lotta old school screens, too. they have one screen from the wide side with all the receivers throwing blocks for the wide screen man. It was a cool play.

AT UL, TB would have a great game, maybe two. Then an average game, followed by one or two stinkers.

I'm rooting for a pipe bomb game for the rookie.

His mobility is cut down, let's heat him up and run him outta Lambeau.

[MadtownPacker]

Black QB? Shheeeeiiitttt, that be like Kryptonite for the Packers. All we need is Mobb (aka Infamous) here to sing his praises and the Pack is fucked. Hate that pesky kneegrow.

[Fritz]

The Vikings have the best O-line in the division. They will definitely be able to run on us. We have to play good coverage and not miss tackles. Their defense doesn't scare me, but if we make too many mistakes, it's a game we could easily lose.

My prediction is this: The Packers run off the field at halftime, losing the game, and the fans are showering boos down upon the team and the coaches.

Defense will be gashed, offense will sputter.

The second half? I dunno. But I see them stinking up the joint in the first half.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The Vikings have the best O-line in the division.

That's like saying they are the Muskie Queen.

[VegasPackFan]

Rudolph is out.

They actually have a very nice 1-2 punch with Asiata and McKinnon at RB now. Asiata is a guy that can get what's blocked, very solid in short yardage and a pretty good receiver. McKinnon is an athletic freak with raw talent that can bust one from anywhere on the field. This is what I think the problem will be. We can stop their passing game but can we stop the running game? Recent history say NO.

The Vikes will look to slow this game down by pounding the ball on their end. Forget Bridgewater. Their gameplan cannot possibly consist of them trying to win a shootout with GB.

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 56m56 minutes ago
Confirming what @McClain_on_NFL reported earlier, the #Texans have signed CB Jumal Rolle off #Packers' practice squad

[K-town]

If you're the Vikings OC, wouldn't you run the jet sweep with Cordarelle Patterson 15 to 20 times? Or until Green Bay proved they could stop it (which would probably be sometime during the 2016 season)?

[The Shadow]

Dom will roll out the new 1 - 1 - 9 alignment to stop that running game cold!

[3irty1]

Favored by 9? I'd bet on the Vikings to cover that. Nothing has come easy for the Packers this season and I don't like the matchup.

Edit: apparently Chewy says we'll win by 30+

[hoosier]

Favored by 9? I'd bet on the Vikings to cover that. Nothing has come easy for the Packers this season and I don't like the matchup.

Edit: apparently Chewy says we'll win by 30+

I totally agree, it's either going to be close or it's going to be a blowout.

[channtheman]

I totally agree, it's either going to be close or it's going to be a blowout.

Yeah. I'd even wager that the Packers will either win or lose.

[3irty1]

Yeah. I'd even wager that the Packers will either win or lose.

God lets hope so. Ties are like kissing your sister.

[channtheman]

God lets hope so. Ties are like kissing your sister.

Was it the Viqueens we tied last year?

[3irty1]

Was it the Viqueens we tied last year?

Yup

[wist43]

The Vikings are reeling a bit... Peterson is gone, Bridgewater may not play - Ponder can't win games on his own.

As inconsistent as we are overall, and as abysmal as we are on defense - I would still expect we will cover the 9 pts.

[Rutnstrut]

I think the Packers win this fairly easily only because I think Ponder will start. Stubby supposedly has said this week that he needs to start using Starks more. We will see about that, he will probably stick with his predictable game plans until the day he's fired.

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 2h2 hours ago
For #Vikings vs. #Packers, Greenway and Rudolph are out. Bridgewater was limited participation and is questionable.

[Joemailman]

That's like saying they are the Muskie Queen.

You're gettin' on the fightin' side of me if you're dissing the Musky Queen.

[pbmax]

Ryan Wood ‏@ByRyanWood 3h3 hours ago
#Packers injury report:
Barrington doubtful
Boyd doubtful
Boykin out
Jones probable
Lang (no injury)probable
Matthews probable
Neal probable

[Maxie the Taxi]

Ryan Wood ‏@ByRyanWood 3h3 hours ago
#Packers injury report:
Barrington doubtful
Boyd doubtful
Boykin out
Jones probable
Lang (no injury)probable
Matthews probable
Neal probable

That means Pennell and Janis will probably be activated again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That means Pennell and Janis will probably be activated again.

Interesting insight. Any thoughts on whether Tolzien will be active?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm sorry, that was unnecessary roughness against a senior citizen.

[Rutnstrut]

Stubby made a statement today that Boykin's injury is worse than they originally thought.

[wist43]

You're gettin' on the fightin' side of me if you're dissing the Musky Queen.

http://muskywarrior.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/musky7-60-lbs-ontario-57.jpg

60 pounder!! Nice fish.

[Rastak]

The Vikings are reeling a bit... Peterson is gone, Bridgewater may not play - Ponder can't win games on his own.

As inconsistent as we are overall, and as abysmal as we are on defense - I would still expect we will cover the 9 pts.


I hope they keep reeling like this. 550+ yards of offense last game. As for Bridgewater. they are playing the gametime decision but I think they forgot to tell Teddy to play along. He talked about how much fun it will be to play tomorrow in such a historic stadium. Sure didn't sound like an "if I play". I suppose that in itself could be a ruse.

[George Cumby]

The Vikings are reeling a bit... Peterson is gone, Bridgewater may not play - Ponder can't win games on his own.

As inconsistent as we are overall, and as abysmal as we are on defense - I would still expect we will cover the 9 pts.

Are you feeling ok? You almost sound......... Optimistic?

[wist43]

Are you feeling ok? You almost sound......... Optimistic?

I grade on a different scale of the rest of you guys I guess... I fully expect we should beat a lesser team like the Vikings - no offense Rastak ;)

If Bridgewater plays?? He's a rookie, i.e. he'll be big-time up and down... long term he may be the answer for the Vikes, but this season is going to be a big learning curve; and if Ponder starts - Ponder is Ponder.

We got waxed by 2 teams that I consider to be better than us - Seattle and Detroit; and we beat a bad Jets team, and looked terrible on defense beating an about even team in the Bears.

If Peterson were playing?? I don't think the line would be 9, and I don't think we'd cover 9, but given the circumstances - yes, we should cover. Even with dunderdummy preening his spraypainted hair in the coaches booth ;)

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'm sorry, that was unnecessary roughness against a senior citizen.

That's a 15 yard penalty, whippersnapper.

[mission]

If there's any defense worse than the Packers, it's the Falcons. They have no one. It's a joke.

Pack covers the spread. -9 is a sucker number begging for Vikings money after a good game last week.

[pbmax]

If there's any defense worse than the Packers, it's the Falcons. They have no one. It's a joke.

Pack covers the spread. -9 is a sucker number begging for Vikings money after a good game last week.

You really think so? Because while I do not agree with wist as to the causes of the meltdown, I do believe they are still in the middle of correcting it on D.

And what kind of offense is likely against a Zimmer D (first year though) in a Cover 2. I want Starks to have 140 yards running zone through a six man box, but I am not sure they are going to get it.

[Joemailman]

The big question is whether the Packers defense can get off the field. Packers are dead last at stopping opponents on 3rd down. Opponents have converted 53% of 3rd downs. Packers have also allowed 5 4th down conversions, which is the most in the league. 7 4th down attempts by opponents is the most in the league. All of this has contributed to the Packers being 31st in time of possession, which tires the defense and limits the opportunities of the offense.

[3irty1]

I don't like the matchup. I'm not convinced that our passing offense is awake. Rodgers and Jordy sure but there is still not anything going in the middle of the field. Even though Cobb put up good stats on Sunday he still looks like a shell of himself to me. This week he'll face Munnerlyn who is a grade above the backup backups and linebackers he's struggled to separate from. Jordy will get his yards but Rhodes isn't garbage and should get plenty of help ala Detroit. If Rhodes has half the day that Slay had for Detroit, someone else is going to have to step up.

On defense, this is a greatest hits of things we've been terrible against. Should look like the diet version of Seattle's offense with tons of rushing, misdirection, and Cordarrelle Patterson playing the part of Percy Harvin.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I don't like the matchup. I'm not convinced that our passing offense is awake. Rodgers and Jordy sure but there is still not anything going in the middle of the field. Even though Cobb put up good stats on Sunday he still looks like a shell of himself to me. This week he'll face Munnerlyn who is a grade above the backup backups and linebackers he's struggled to separate from. Jordy will get his yards but Rhodes isn't garbage and should get plenty of help ala Detroit. If Rhodes has half the day that Slay had for Detroit, someone else is going to have to step up.

On defense, this is a greatest hits of things we've been terrible against. Should look like the diet version of Seattle's offense with tons of rushing, misdirection, and Cordarrelle Patterson playing the part of Percy Harvin.

Great post. Minnesota is 5th in the league in rushing. Packers are dead last in rushing defense. Pack is 5th in the league in pass defense. It's a no brainer. Minnesota is going to rush the ball.

On offense, we're 28th in the league rushing. On the other hand we have Aaron Rodgers. Minnesota has a middle of the road pass defense.

It's the same old story of the last couple years. Our best chance to win is Rodgers throwing lights out and our defense getting key turnovers... ...And Stubby keeping his head out of the game.

[wist43]

You really think so? Because while I do not agree with wist as to the causes of the meltdown, I do believe they are still in the middle of correcting it on D.

And what kind of offense is likely against a Zimmer D (first year though) in a Cover 2. I want Starks to have 140 yards running zone through a six man box, but I am not sure they are going to get it.

So now the truth comes out - you don't believe in stopping the run or defending the middle of the field either, huh?? Dom's ur man ;)

[pbmax]

So now the truth comes out - you don't believe in stopping the run or defending the middle of the either, huh?? Dom's ur man ;)

I was talking about the odds of this being a close game (under 9 points). What are you talking about?

[denverYooper]

I don't like the matchup. I'm not convinced that our passing offense is awake. Rodgers and Jordy sure but there is still not anything going in the middle of the field. Even though Cobb put up good stats on Sunday he still looks like a shell of himself to me. This week he'll face Munnerlyn who is a grade above the backup backups and linebackers he's struggled to separate from. Jordy will get his yards but Rhodes isn't garbage and should get plenty of help ala Detroit. If Rhodes has half the day that Slay had for Detroit, someone else is going to have to step up.

On defense, this is a greatest hits of things we've been terrible against. Should look like the diet version of Seattle's offense with tons of rushing, misdirection, and Cordarrelle Patterson playing the part of Percy Harvin.

Who's rushing the passer in Minny now, though? Floyd has been pretty bad. Griffen/Robison have been pretty quiet since Allen has been gone, and the game is on grass. Greenway is out, no? They have nowhere near the horsepower in the front 7 that Detroit has, and they're playing away. Detroit's success in coverage was more a function of that front 7 tearing ass on that carpet.

[hoosier]

Bridgewater might be inactive:


Kevin Seifert: Basically didn't practice RT @GoesslingESPN: @AdamSchefter reporting this morning that signs point to Teddy Bridgewater not playing tonight.

[denverYooper]

I would like to see the Packers score first this week. In each of the first 3 weeks, they coughed up the ball and spotted their opponent a TD. In week 4, they didn't but they gave up a long scoring drive to start the game. How about if they try getting a lead and playing from ahead for a while?

[hoosier]

I don't like the matchup....On defense, this is a greatest hits of things we've been terrible against. Should look like the diet version of Seattle's offense with tons of rushing, misdirection, and Cordarrelle Patterson playing the part of Percy Harvin.

You may be right, but if so, think about what this means. The Packer will have played five games after tonight, and probably four of them looked like bad match ups. Can GB be anything more than a mediocre team if it matches up poorly not only against SEA but also against the likes of the Jets, the Vikings and the Lions?

[Maxie the Taxi]

From http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/13719/vikings-vs-packers-preview


Goessling: It still has a ways to go. Zimmer was talking on Tuesday about the defensive line, which has typically had the freedom to chase the quarterback, no matter the cost. Well, Zimmer wants his defensive linemen to rush as a team, not overpursuing for individual sacks while opening up a lane for the quarterback to escape, and he saw too much of that Sunday. The Vikings also need to get better depth in their secondary, and I still think they will wind up looking for a more effective counterpart for safety Harrison Smith (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14945/harrison-smith?ex_cid=null) then they have on the roster. The linebackers have some promise, especially with what Anthony Barr (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/16711/anthony-barr?ex_cid=null) can do, but the Vikings have still been too easy to target in pass coverage. I think it's probably going to take another draft, and another year of Zimmer working with players on his system, but the D is definitely headed in the right direction. You already see flashes of how the Vikings could have a really good defense in the future, and Barr and Smith could be stars.

It's why they let Jarred Allen go.

[3irty1]

Who's rushing the passer in Minny now, though? Floyd has been pretty bad. Griffen/Robison have been pretty quiet since Allen has been gone, and the game is on grass. Greenway is out, no? They have nowhere near the horsepower in the front 7 that Detroit has, and they're playing away. Detroit's success in coverage was more a function of that front 7 tearing ass on that carpet.

Griffin's a solid starter. They also have the rookie Barr. Zimmer's Bengals also made Rodgers look like Cutler last time we played them. Coupled with the fact that its just a division game and anything can happen I just don't like it. I liked the matchup more with the Lions and Bears.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The thing I worry about most is the weather. If it rains and the field and ball get slick, any outcome could happen.

[3irty1]

You may be right, but if so, think about what this means. The Packer will have played five games after tonight, and probably four of them looked like bad match ups. Can GB be anything more than a mediocre team if it matches up poorly not only against SEA but also against the likes of the Jets, the Vikings and the Lions?

I don't think the Lions are a bad matchup. That's a passing team who stops the run and we're a passing team who stops the pass. That's a game we should win.

As long as our offense is mediocre we're not good. Our defense can compliment an elite offense well but they aren't going to win games on their own.

[Guiness]

It will be interesting to see how they use Cordarrelle. He had a big first game (over 100 yards rushing) but has a negative rushing total since then. He still worries me against a Packers D that has not shown they can defend plays that involve him coming out of the backfield.

[wist43]

I was talking about the odds of this being a close game (under 9 points). What are you talking about?

You said you didn't agree with me on the causes of "the meltdown"... I assume you were talking about defense?

Since my argument is we are unsound in how we defend the run, line up in the front (six), and defend the middle of the field in general - you must agree with how Dom does those things...

3irty1 wants to blame the players - Dom is a genius of course... I guess you're in that camp.

[denverYooper]

Griffin's a solid starter. They also have the rookie Barr. Zimmer's Bengals also made Rodgers look like Cutler last time we played them. Coupled with the fact that its just a division game and anything can happen I just don't like it. I liked the matchup more with the Lions and Bears.

Last time Zimmer faced Green Bay, he only had to focus on one side of the game and had a stud DL with Atkins, Peko, Johnson, and Dunlap up front. Griffen's a solid starter, but he's not close to Johnson. And the Vikes have no one in the same universe as Atkins right now. Hell, that Bengals D is continuing to thrive in his absence. They've just got a lot more talent right now than the Vikings. Zimmer will probably get that group tuned up and eventually start flustering Rodgers, but he needs time and talent to bring that bunch up.

I just don't see it for this game.

[pbmax]

From http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/13719/vikings-vs-packers-preview



It's why they let Jarred Allen go.

I would love to see that pass rush on the Packers. Right now is as close as they have been to 2010, but its usually 2 or 3 setting up the QB to go down. Still better than last two years of single pass rusher penetration.

[Tony Oday]

Ok this is from a guy that listens to Purple Kool-aid channel KFAN every day at work, this Vikings team is bad. Terrible corners, Xavier Rhodes may be a solid starter in the league year 3-7 but now he still gets bitch slapped. Munnerlyn is terrible, think Devon House falling every pass play terrible. They could barely get QB Pressure with a TE as the RT against the Falcons. Barr will be a stud. Harrison Smith is decent to good but really is a run stopper.

Their offense is PATHETIC. Asiata and McKinnon are NOT good. McKinnon goes down like a freshman at prom and Asiata is a less talented Toby Gerhart. Paterson cannot run routes well yet and is a gimick thus far, million dollar talent 10 cent head. GJ is slowing and Wynn is not a threat to a decent corner. Rudolph is out for at least 3 more weeks. Their O Line is pathetically bad. Kahlil is a turnstile at LT and their right side can really only run block.

Ponder or Bridgewater is potato potato. Bridge has a below average arm with a little scramble to him that is about it, Ponder is well Ponder he has the arm but cant go through the progressions as well as he should, he doesnt get out of his head.

The only chance they have is if it is a quagmire and there is only the running game to rely on.

[pbmax]

You said you didn't agree with me on the causes of "the meltdown"... I assume you were talking about defense?

Since my argument is we are unsound in how we defend the run, line up in the front (six), and defend the middle of the field in general - you must agree with how Dom does those things...

3irty1 wants to blame the players - Dom is a genius of course... I guess you're in that camp.

I agree on all areas of concern (middle of D in general, run D and over pursuit in particular). I don't agree that Capers is designing unsound defenses.

But unless you have a lead, you cannot combine a pass defense focus with shoddy run defense fundamentals and they haven't had that squared away since 2010 and the first 7 games of 2013.

[pbmax]

think Devon House falling every pass play terrible.

Good comparison. Also reminds me;

Keys To The Game: Wear Correct Shoes, Don't Fall Down

[wist43]

I agree on all areas of concern (middle of D in general, run D and over pursuit in particular). I don't agree that Capers is designing unsound defenses.

But unless you have a lead, you cannot combine a pass defense focus with shoddy run defense fundamentals and they haven't had that squared away since 2010 and the first 7 games of 2013.

If what Capers is doing is sound, then I would hate to see what you would consider unsound.

Lining up in the nickel, with only 2 DL on the field on 3rd and 1?? Okay fine, let's say that's a grand idea - is positioning both of your DL outside the Guards "sound"?? The center must be wondering, "... where the fuck did the defensive line go"?? Cutler had to be wondering - "wow, I guess they want me to run for 20 yds... what's the catch"??

The Lockette TD is a perfect example of being unsound - and not just b/c the player on the back end is a rookie in his first game.

I don't watch nearly as much football as I used to, but I can't remember ever seeing a defense allow more free runners, more uncontested catches, more blown assignments, more instances of being outmanned at the POA, on and on...

If you think what Capers is doing is sound - then it is 100% on the players - which means it is 100% on TT.

[pbmax]

Apropos of this discussion, is this article, from the somewhat surprising source of Tom Silverstein, about how the Packers are choosing to defend teams. Commit more to the run or to the pass? Capers is choosing to commit to stopping the pass.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-more-focused-on-stopping-receivers-b99362613z1-277844821.html

[Fritz]

Weird after all those years of Ryan Pickett as spokesperson talking about how important it was to stop the run.

[pbmax]

My guess is that this is a function of not being able to generate a great pass rush with four people. If you do that, playing pass D in base and not giving up big passes is much easier. See Lions D versus Packers this year.

[Fritz]

Okay, let me go on record as having a crisis of confidence in the Packers. Not just this year's team, but perhaps the direction of the franchise.

For years, I firmly believed that it was the damn plethora of injuries, relentless, constant, that undermined the Packer teams of the past three years. I even heard a stat two days ago on the radio that Green Bay had suffered more injury games-lost than any other team. I figured that if they'd had their team even half-healthy, all the bozo defensive breakdowns and offensive-line misses wouldn't have occurred so frequently. Not that it was the only reason - I knew better than that - but I believed it to be the biggest factor.

Now, however, the Packers are - knock on wood - one of the if not the healthiest team in the division. Yet the defense continues to leak like a 60 year-old-man's penis after a long bike ride, and the offense is as inconsistent as a three-titted woman.

I now wonder if TT finally has whiffed on too many early rounders lately (Sherrod, Perry, Worthy, maybe even Jones), and if Capers has completely cemented his reputation as someone who can work wonders in year one but cannot sustain the success. And I think back to Patler's comments about the decreasing effectiveness of head coaches (and maybe GM's?) as they pass the eight-year mark of their regimes.

My confidence is shaken.

[wist43]

Apropos of this discussion, is this article, from the somewhat surprising source of Tom Silverstein, about how the Packers are choosing to defend teams. Commit more to the run or to the pass? Capers is choosing to commit to stopping the pass.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dom-capers-more-focused-on-stopping-receivers-b99362613z1-277844821.html

Okay then - is that a "sound" approach??

I would argue absolutely not.

Since running the ball is inherently safer, i.e. less chance of a turnover or negative play, and dunderdummy is willing to concede that - and we then have to accept all of the negative consequences that come along with that, i.e. most notably TOP differential - that has to be a recipe for failure, i.e. it is philosophically unsound.

Reading that article, it's pretty clear to me that Capers doesn't care about the run, he doesn't care about the LOS, he doesn't care about TOP - it seems he doesn't care about playing good defense. It sounds like he believes the dreaded "bend but don't break" defense should be our full-time base, lol... what an idiot!! Can't believe MM and TT have bought into this clown.

He needs to retire.

[3irty1]

Its too early in the season for my confidence to be shaken. A season almost never looks like it did last year where the two offseason champs stomp the whole league for 18 weeks then play each other. In recent years its been more common for some team to barely make the playoffs then emerge as a powerhouse in the post season. You don't want the playoffs to be the first time you face adversity. Its like the 2010 packers vs the 2011 packers.

I think this team's best can beat anyone anywhere. They just need to have it figured out in time like the Ravens, Giants, Packers, Steelers, Giants have before.

[Carolina_Packer]

Okay, let me go on record as having a crisis of confidence in the Packers. Not just this year's team, but perhaps the direction of the franchise.

For years, I firmly believed that it was the damn plethora of injuries, relentless, constant, that undermined the Packer teams of the past three years. I even heard a stat two days ago on the radio that Green Bay had suffered more injury games-lost than any other team. I figured that if they'd had their team even half-healthy, all the bozo defensive breakdowns and offensive-line misses wouldn't have occurred so frequently. Not that it was the only reason - I knew better than that - but I believed it to be the biggest factor.

Now, however, the Packers are - knock on wood - one of the if not the healthiest team in the division. Yet the defense continues to leak like a 60 year-old-man's penis after a long bike ride, and the offense is as inconsistent as a three-titted woman.

I now wonder if TT finally has whiffed on too many early rounders lately (Sherrod, Perry, Worthy, maybe even Jones), and if Capers has completely cemented his reputation as someone who can work wonders in year one but cannot sustain the success. And I think back to Patler's comments about the decreasing effectiveness of head coaches (and maybe GM's?) as they pass the eight-year mark of their regimes.

My confidence is shaken.

I agree Fritz. There's always some reason/excuse why the defense is not right. After a while most fan's are just like, "Get it fixed, already" We don't expect the defense to be as good as the offense, but how about just consistently productive? Like last year when we shut down Detroit at home and Baltimore on the road, then A-Rod gets hurt and then we suddenly can't tackle. Whether Capers fault or not, it's his responsibility to come up with a consistently productive defense and they are not there. Let's see them gel and stack their success instead of two steps forward, three steps back.

[hoosier]

Its too early in the season for my confidence to be shaken. A season almost never looks like it did last year where the two offseason champs stomp the whole league for 18 weeks then play each other. In recent years its been more common for some team to barely make the playoffs then emerge as a powerhouse in the post season. You don't want the playoffs to be the first time you face adversity. Its like the 2010 packers vs the 2011 packers.

I think this team's best can beat anyone anywhere. They just need to have it figured out in time like the Ravens, Giants, Packers, Steelers, Giants have before.

+1. The 2012 and 2013 versions didn't get it figured out and as a result they got to play the sacrificial lamb role in January. If this team can avoid the injury epidemic for an entire season maybe things turn out differently.

[denverYooper]

Its too early in the season for my confidence to be shaken. A season almost never looks like it did last year where the two offseason champs stomp the whole league for 18 weeks then play each other. In recent years its been more common for some team to barely make the playoffs then emerge as a powerhouse in the post season. You don't want the playoffs to be the first time you face adversity. Its like the 2010 packers vs the 2011 packers.

I think this team's best can beat anyone anywhere. They just need to have it figured out in time like the Ravens, Giants, Packers, Steelers, Giants have before.

Yes.

At this point, they've reworked their defense in response to the issues they've had over the last few seasons. Will it end up being a disaster in the end? Maybe, but they had to do something different. At least they're decent at one thing so far -- defending the pass -- instead of sucking at everything.

[mission]

I was talking about the odds of this being a close game (under 9 points). What are you talking about?

Now I'm not gambling anymore because I wasn't profitable (too much "emotion/hunch betting") so my opinion isn't worth very much (at all), but spread seems to beg for money on the Vikings side given the larger number and that 9 points isn't really considered much different than 7.5 points. It's a bad number to take up to -9.5 for the Vikings but the "public" sees that and wants to jump all over it. Screams a blow-out really; just remember spreads are not a predictor of the score, but a way to get 50/50 money on each side so they books are not exposed and can rake their 10% vig.

[Guiness]

Now I'm not gambling anymore because I wasn't profitable (too much "emotion/hunch betting") so my opinion isn't worth very much (at all), but spread seems to beg for money on the Vikings side given the larger number and that 9 points isn't really considered much different than 7.5 points. It's a bad number to take up to -9.5 for the Vikings but the "public" sees that and wants to jump all over it. Screams a blow-out really; just remember spreads are not a predictor of the score, but a way to get 50/50 money on each side so they books are not exposed and can rake their 10% vig.

Agreed, 9 points means money so far is on the Packers. Still, it's attractive.

[pbmax]

mission's advice seems like it was spot on.

[3irty1]

Lining up in the nickel, with only 2 DL on the field on 3rd and 1?? Okay fine, let's say that's a grand idea - is positioning both of your DL outside the Guards "sound"?? The center must be wondering, "... where the fuck did the defensive line go"?? Cutler had to be wondering - "wow, I guess they want me to run for 20 yds... what's the catch"??

What play are you talking about here?

[wist43]

What play are you talking about here?

There's no shortage of examples - go thru the tape. I don't have it anymore, so I can't watch it.

That said, Capers routinely either completely abandons, or gives very short shrift to defending anything up the middle - haven't you noticed how easy it is for teams to just run it down our throats?? That would be b/c Capers isn't even thinking about defending the middle of the field - he admitted as much in that JS article.

That said, last night he did actually bottle up the middle much of the night - very much out of character for Capers, and very much what is needed every game. As should be obvious though, that will not be a trend - it was a one game deal... next week he will be right back to his nonsense.

[mission]

mission's advice seems like it was spot on.

Only because I didn't bet it. :lol:

[3irty1]

There's no shortage of examples - go thru the tape. I don't have it anymore, so I can't watch it.

That said, Capers routinely either completely abandons, or gives very short shrift to defending anything up the middle - haven't you noticed how easy it is for teams to just run it down our throats?? That would be b/c Capers isn't even thinking about defending the middle of the field - he admitted as much in that JS article.

That said, last night he did actually bottle up the middle much of the night - very much out of character for Capers, and very much what is needed every game. As should be obvious though, that will not be a trend - it was a one game deal... next week he will be right back to his nonsense.

Are you talking about the Bears game?

1st quarter 1:19, 3rd and 1. Bears go no huddle, Packers are in the "4-3" or 2-5 if you prefer. Forte goes off right tackle and stuffed by Burnett for no gain.

Next play 4th and 1 is the Cutler fumble and run. Packers are in a 4-3 (2-5) again with Burnett playing up for an 8 man box. Neal and Daniels quit on the play after being ridden to the side, are flat footed waiting for the whistle as Cutler picks it up and runs past them. Everyone else in coverage and thank god because he could have thrown and easy TD.

2nd Quarter, same drive there are a bunch of X and goal plays from the 1 during our kick ass goal line stand.

Later in 2nd quarter at 5:56, 2nd and 1. Forte stuffed for no gain.

Next play 3rd and 1, Bears go big bringing in an extra lineman. Packers go 4-3 with Burnett up in the box. 4 yard gain by forte.

3rd quarter at 8:19, 3rd and 1 is the QB sneak for 2.

I'm going to stop here because after this point is both ints and the game gets considerably less competitive. Plus I must have the wrong game because I didn't see any of what you're talking about.

[3irty1]

Okay then - is that a "sound" approach??

I would argue absolutely not.

Since running the ball is inherently safer, i.e. less chance of a turnover or negative play, and dunderdummy is willing to concede that - and we then have to accept all of the negative consequences that come along with that, i.e. most notably TOP differential - that has to be a recipe for failure, i.e. it is philosophically unsound.

Reading that article, it's pretty clear to me that Capers doesn't care about the run, he doesn't care about the LOS, he doesn't care about TOP - it seems he doesn't care about playing good defense. It sounds like he believes the dreaded "bend but don't break" defense should be our full-time base, lol... what an idiot!! Can't believe MM and TT have bought into this clown.

He needs to retire.

It does seem that he cares about points.

What I got out of the article is that his game plan is tailored to combat the opponents strength. True that he dared the Lions and Bears to run but he dared the Jets to pass. Obviously the Bears were more capable of making us pay for that choice but given the result of the game its hard to argue it was the wrong one, if you had to stop one or the other. Capers also says in the article that ideally you'd stop everything.

Against a team like the Vikings you get a game plan more like the Jets which we'd all expect.

I think you need to clear the old cache and give a real evaluation of this defense. You declared the season a waste after 1 preseason game and have been an echo chamber of Capers hate ever since. Things seem a little different this year, a lot of the old tropes no longer seem to fit.

[wist43]

Are you talking about the Bears game?

1st quarter 1:19, 3rd and 1. Bears go no huddle, Packers are in the "4-3" or 2-5 if you prefer. Forte goes off right tackle and stuffed by Burnett for no gain.

Next play 4th and 1 is the Cutler fumble and run. Packers are in a 4-3 (2-5) again with Burnett playing up for an 8 man box. Neal and Daniels quit on the play after being ridden to the side, are flat footed waiting for the whistle as Cutler picks it up and runs past them. Everyone else in coverage and thank god because he could have thrown and easy TD.

2nd Quarter, same drive there are a bunch of X and goal plays from the 1 during our kick ass goal line stand.

Later in 2nd quarter at 5:56, 2nd and 1. Forte stuffed for no gain.

Next play 3rd and 1, Bears go big bringing in an extra lineman. Packers go 4-3 with Burnett up in the box. 4 yard gain by forte.

3rd quarter at 8:19, 3rd and 1 is the QB sneak for 2.

I'm going to stop here because after this point is both ints and the game gets considerably less competitive. Plus I must have the wrong game because I didn't see any of what you're talking about.

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

[3irty1]

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

I'll take 500 yards on the ground if it means only 17 points.

[denverYooper]

I'll take 500 yards on the ground if it means only 17 points.

One of McCarthy's key metrics is explosive play differential. The last 2 games illustrate why.

[wist43]

Wow... I truly live in an insane world - where getting run over like little sissies is actually considered good defense, lol.

More is less, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength, and 2+2=5 ;)

[Joemailman]

One of McCarthy's key metrics is explosive play differential. The last 2 games illustrate why.

If you look at the stats of the Bears game, it's pretty obvious what the plan was: Don't let Brandon Marshall and Jeffery beat you. You take those guys away, and Cutler is average at best. So most of the yards went to Forte and Bennett. It's not that they wouldn't have liked to do a better job against those guys, but they knew Forte couldn't beat them.

[Cheesehead Craig]

You and Max... Dom's ur guy - 176 yds/game on the ground is a fine trade off... wonder why no other DC in the history of the game ever came to that conclusion?? It's so obvious, it's brilliant!!!

Hey now, it's down to 163/game after last night. Let's stay up to date here.

[Guiness]

If you look at the stats of the Bears game, it's pretty obvious what the plan was: Don't let Brandon Marshall and Jeffery beat you. You take those guys away, and Cutler is average at best. So most of the yards went to Forte and Bennett. It's not that they wouldn't have liked to do a better job against those guys, but they knew Forte couldn't beat them.

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

[3irty1]

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

This is where I'm at too. Last night was pretty crappy conditions for footwork which honestly is probably more conducive for big plays since shit happens, guys slip or fall, and its just generally tougher to play tight defense against a well timed passing attack. Lacy doing that kind of damage with only 13 carries is going to make this offense sing everytime though.

[denverYooper]

Pack took away Marshall for sure, Forte was doing a number on them until Cutler 'took control of the game' by forcing a few balls.

What worries me a bit is when it goes the other way. Detroit said they focused on Nelson, they shut him down and the Pack's O floundered. We like to think the other weapons in this O prevent that from happening, but last night was the only time we've seen it.

They dropped a lot of balls vs Detroit. Heck, if Cobb catches that pass up the sideline that dropped in the bucket, the game might look totally different.

[3irty1]

It was nice to see that Greg Jennings is enjoying his retirement in Minnesota.

[Guiness]

It was nice to see that Greg Jennings is enjoying his retirement in Minnesota.

Money well spent Ziggy!

[denverYooper]

It was nice to see that Greg Jennings is enjoying his retirement in Minnesota.

I wonder if his sister is happy.

[3irty1]

I wonder if his sister is happy.

Lets review her thoughts for old times sake:


Aaron Rodgers come on u had GJ for the TD twice. Get him the [ball emoji] geez!!!!!

Why was that ball under thrown like that, he was wide open make the throw for the receiver!!! Geeez!!

My God Aaron Rodgers holds the ball forever! GJ was wide open 5x for that touchdown! Goodness he acts like he doesn't want to throw to him[yelly face emoji]

GJ is the only receiver that has to jump in the air with both hands up to get the [ball emoji]!!! It's ridiculous I pray he departs GB ASAP!

Aaron Rodgers smh! Had him in the slot wide open no one even covered him! Where is Peyton Manning when u need him! This is utterly pathetic

@Da_mrs_85 Eb, Cortney, and Jahlin. We are hot Mad! I've never seen a star receiver ever go through this smh! @GregJennings needs to bounce[yelly face emoji]

It is so obvious that @GregJennings is being blatantly ignored by ARod. Maybe @ halftime GJ should put on #18 then ARod will force [ball emoji] to him!

Who can make a play @GregJennings can! He's the best freakin receiver these clowns got! Now take your talents to south beach & get paid![sack of money emoji][dollar bill emoji]

@GregJennings ball out so you can leave this team! They will miss u when your gone! It's all good bye packers! Cheap team, can't afford him

@Da_mrs_85 I don't freakin care he should have more catches, if this idiot could see the coverage!![yelly face emoji] Then he holds on to the ball & fumbles!

ARod is the most overrated QB in the league! He is no where near Peyton or Brady! It sickens me, Peyton would avg. 5 TD with this squad!!!

:lol:

[wist43]

I wonder if his sister is happy.

Isn't she a babe though?? Babes can say anything they want and get away with it... after they screw ya over, they smile and act coy - you're right back to heel ;)

[wist43]

Found this picture of Clay Matthew sister... couldn't find one of Greg Jennings yet though :)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iJSPYHAEfmo/UB1b5Fom-JI/AAAAAAAACKc/kVGkfX6jjN8/s1600/c8b6c_holley-mangold.jpeg

[Zool]

http://rosterwatch.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/valyncia-jennings1.jpg

[Zool]

I also found this

http://www.juanelway.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Greg-Jennings...-500x500.jpg

[Zool]

And then I found this which is also fun.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/siouxcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/04/1047dda6-2fca-5982-a134-b88ca5583f2d/542e2e536d8aa.image.jpg

[Guiness]

Lets review her thoughts for old times sake:

That was something, wasn't it? What could possibly have been going through her head...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lets review her thoughts for old times sake:

What's funny is that Jennings had a huge statistical game in that one. He had 8 catches for 120 yards and 2 TDs. With the Vikings he's had 5 TDs in 21 games. He's surpassed 7 receptions just once. He has one 100 yard game.

[George Cumby]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[pbmax]

Found this picture of Clay Matthew sister... couldn't find one of Greg Jennings yet though :)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iJSPYHAEfmo/UB1b5Fom-JI/AAAAAAAACKc/kVGkfX6jjN8/s1600/c8b6c_holley-mangold.jpeg

That is Nick Mangold's sister. This is Clay Matthews sister on the left:


http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e2674e102d33ced7902bf21c353c1c51b0ba7d68/c=0-0-597-796&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/GreenBay/2014/09/12/z-jennifermatthews.jpg