Cobb

[Tony Oday]

Is it just me or is he hurting his chances for a monster contract. He seems to be, at least this year, a product of AR instead of being a top flight WR.

[Tony Oday]

And yes he has a ton of TDs this year but it just "seems" different this year.

[gbgary]

a lot of shit is "just different" this year than last. running game, Rodgers (early on), too much shot-gun, dicey deep balls instead of open/easy underneath stuff (nearly got jordy killed yesterday), just to name a few.

[Joemailman]

I think what's different is that the Packers don't have a TE in the lineup who can stretch the middle of the field. Cobb is drawing more attention than ever before. It's just a different offense than it's been. The Packers are 19th in the NFL in passing YPG, but they're getting by because Rodgers is ridiculously good in the red zone. Cobb is a big part of that.

[Tony Oday]

But is he doing anything that warrants a big contract? Was James Jones that important?

[MadScientist]

First couple of weeks Cobb was invisible, but he's been better since. The offer that he gets will probably be decent simply because the Packers need 3+ good options. Boykin has looked like less than nothing this year and Janis doesn't have Rodgers trust yet. He won't get Jordy money from anyone, so the Packers have a decent shot at re-signing him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I know ARod's stats are great, but I think it's obvious we miss Finley (and probably James Jones for the first few games, but I think Adams is stating to give us what Jones gave us). The threat of Finley opened things up on offense. The offense's ability (ARod's ability) to convert in the red zone so far this year is masking a lot of deficiencies on offense. Plus, the turnovers are helping the offense in the points scored department.

[Joemailman]

I know ARod's stats are great, but I think it's obvious we miss Finley (and probably James Jones for the first few games, but I think Adams is stating to give us what Jones gave us). The threat of Finley opened things up on offense. The offense's ability (ARod's ability) to convert in the red zone so far this year is masking a lot of deficiencies on offense. Plus, the turnovers are helping the offense in the points scored department.

Packers are 26th offensively in YPG, and 8th in PPG. That can't continue forever. Bostick must really be in the doghouse, because he has a skill set they could really use.

[Bretsky]

Cobb is getting no separation.....and they really really miss Jmike. Even though he underperformed for us he was light years better than what we have.

[Bossman641]

Cobb is coming on. I'd still like to see him break a long one and get some yac but he's coming along.

[KYPack]

Cobb is coming on. I'd still like to see him break a long one and get some yac but he's coming along.

Yeah, I think the leg is healing.

At the start, he was missing some shake and speed.

[smuggler]

I'm willing to give him until the later part of the season before I consider him diminished.

[Patler]

TE situation is not really much different this year than it was last year. Finley only played 5+ games last year, then was done for the season. Finley not being here at all this year is not the reason for the offense's struggles.

Cobb had 31 catches last year in the six games he played. He has 29 this year in six games. His yardage is less, but his TDs are up.

Cobb is what he has always been for them, a guy that doesn't do much in the play as designed, but stands out when a play breaks down, or Rodgers extends a play beyond its original design. MCGinn wrote about it during TC:


Rodgers ... also has said Cobb was one of a kind when it comes to breaking off routes and getting free when Rodgers flees the pocket.

In 2012, Rodgers was on the move on nine of Cobb's 17 receptions for 20 yards or more. Last season, six of Cobb's eight 20-plus catches came with the quarterback scrambling.

That means that a full 60% of Cobb's longest receptions in 2012-'13 (15 of 25) came after adjustments from his designed route. In contrast, merely 13.3% of Nelson's receptions (four of 30) worth 20 yards or more came on scrambles.

A review of Nelson's big plays the past two years shows a series of takeoffs, deep comebacks, seams, back-shoulders, digs, overs and hitches. He was an outside receiver until Cobb went down last year and then, for the first time, played substantially inside.

[gbgary]

I think what's different is that the Packers don't have a TE in the lineup who can stretch the middle of the field. Cobb is drawing more attention than ever before. It's just a different offense than it's been. The Packers are 19th in the NFL in passing YPG, but they're getting by because Rodgers is ridiculously good in the red zone. Cobb is a big part of that.
was told yesterday that te was open a lot yesterday but Rodgers chose not to go to him. Read somewhere that Q even told AR he was open all the time. I'd trade a two-snap, big play drive (that we always seem to be going for) for a ten play drive that eats the clock, and rests the d, once in a while. if they're giving us the short/med routes we should take them and sustain drives.

[pbmax]

Packers are 26th offensively in YPG, and 8th in PPG. That can't continue forever. Bostick must really be in the doghouse, because he has a skill set they could really use.

I think you can come close if the keep on a +7 turnover ration per five or six game rate.

Finley drew safety coverage at times, I will give him that. Not much else though. He was a different player since the injury. More of a threat than Quarless, but not the guy he was previously. Not sure he could have stayed in Green Bay, happy with a lesser contract, without learning that lesson the hard way.

By that I mean leaving for disappointing offers, not another injury.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You won't convince me that Finley wouldn't do wonders for this offense. There were others that helped make up for it, but Finley was a difference maker. I would have loved to see Finley combined with Lacy. We never really got to see much of it.

[pbmax]

was told yesterday that te was open a lot yesterday but Rodgers chose not to go to him. Read somewhere that Q even told AR he was open all the time. I'd trade a two-snap, big play drive (that we always seem to be going for) for a ten play drive that eats the clock, and rests the d, once in a while. if they're giving us the short/med routes we should take them and sustain drives.

He gets linebacker coverage and can probably beat all but the best. But its a limited threat the D wants to cover the TE with a LB, except perhaps in the red zone.

[pbmax]

One thing to remember about Cobb, the safety that used to cover Finley is now free to double Cobb. The Dolphins put Grimes on Nelson but Cobb was doubled in the slot.

Nelson has received that treatment in two games. I wonder what made the Dolphins switch?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/aaron-rodgers-receivers-come-through-in-end-b99370045z1-279092081.html#packers

[Pugger]

I think what's different is that the Packers don't have a TE in the lineup who can stretch the middle of the field. Cobb is drawing more attention than ever before. It's just a different offense than it's been. The Packers are 19th in the NFL in passing YPG, but they're getting by because Rodgers is ridiculously good in the red zone. Cobb is a big part of that.

On the TD to Cobb against the fins the talking heads on BSPN and the NFLN all pointed out how Cobb never gave up on the play scrambling around in the end zone knowing AR would also try to escape the pocket and keep the play alive. Not all WRs do this like Randall did on Sunday.

[Patler]

Sure Finley, or someone like him would help the offense, but they played most of 2013 without him too. If you are looking for reasons that the offense is different this year than last, Finley isn't the reason, because he wasn't there most of last year either.

They got Bulaga back, which should be an improvement. EDS had one of the worst years statistically for a Packer center in a long time, both in run blocking and pass pro, and his replacement is earning high praise. Yet, overall the OL play has been bad.

It all starts with the OL, not as individuals but as an overall unit performance. But, this is no surprise. They start poorly almost every year.

[pbmax]

Sure Finley, or someone like him would help the offense, but they played most of 2013 without him too. If you are looking for reasons that the offense is different this year than last, Finley isn't the reason, because he wasn't there most of last year either.

They got Bulaga back, which should be an improvement. EDS had one of the worst years statistically for a Packer center in a long time, both in run blocking and pass pro, and his replacement is earning high praise. Yet, overall the OL play has been bad.

It all starts with the OL, not as individuals but as an overall unit performance. But, this is no surprise. They start poorly almost every year.

I think its worse in one respect this year, unrelated to normal slow starts. Both Bach and Bulaga are getting beat with speed on the road. In the no huddle or silent count, their rookie center is always snapping on the same count after Rodgers lifts his foot. Rushers are beating the tackles off the snap.

They might not want to burden their new center with more duties, but he has to use some kind of variable cadence there or its going to be very hard to win by passing on the road against a good pass rush.

If one thing other than injury would mean Tretter gets his start back, its this.

[denverYooper]

I think its worse in one respect this year, unrelated to normal slow starts. Both Bach and Bulaga are getting beat with speed on the road. In the no huddle or silent count, their rookie center is always snapping on the same count after Rodgers lifts his foot. Rushers are beating the tackles off the snap.

They might not want to burden their new center with more duties, but he has to use some kind of variable cadence there or its going to be very hard to win by passing on the road against a good pass rush.

If one thing other than injury would mean Tretter gets his start back, its this.

Tretter hasn't started a game. Why would he be any better with the silent count on the road in a hostile environment? They're taking some lumps there with Linsley, but you've got to figure they get him mixing cadences soon.

[Carolina_Packer]

I wonder what the final call will be when Tretter is healthy enough to come back. Will Linsley or Tretter be a backup at Guard and Center and let Gerhardt go?

[sharpe1027]

Tretter hasn't started a game. Why would he be any better with the silent count on the road in a hostile environment? They're taking some lumps there with Linsley, but you've got to figure they get him mixing cadences soon.

Not sure if this is what pb was thinking but Trette had more time in the off season to get prepared. If I recall, they worked all summer to get him ready.

[Guiness]

I wonder what the final call will be when Tretter is healthy enough to come back. Will Linsley or Tretter be a backup at Guard and Center and let Gerhardt go?

Tretter was a tackle in college. Seeing as how poorly the most recent Sherrod experiment went, I think it's more likely he is cut and Tretter is a backup tackle, not guard.

[pbmax]

Not sure if this is what pb was thinking but Trette had more time in the off season to get prepared. If I recall, they worked all summer to get him ready.

This. Its just a guess. They may not even have introduced the idea yet. But they should work on it.

[Guiness]

This. Its just a guess. They may not even have introduced the idea yet. But they should work on it.

It was definitely a problem Sunday. The one snap in particular, that they showed a replay of had the RDE going so early Lych said it had to be offsides. No flag, and if he wasn't, he definitely had a better idea of when the ball was going to be snapped than Bakh had.

[Patler]

Not sure if this is what pb was thinking but Trette had more time in the off season to get prepared. If I recall, they worked all summer to get him ready.

I don't think that means much anymore. Under the new rules, only the strength & conditioning coaches are allowed to work with the players, except for the few days of off season camps. The players are permitted only minimal time with footballs. MM complained about the fact that centers, qbs, holders, punters and kickers whose basic functions require handling the football aren't allowed to use one during most of the off season.

Tretter never played center in a game until the first preseason game this year. I suspect that he will have to focus on the basics of being a center more than an experienced center like Linsley would have to.

By the time Tretter comes back, he will be the green-eyed rookie and Linsley will be the "vet".

[Harlan Huckleby]

They need Tretter to replace Sherrod

[Joemailman]

Tretter might be perfect to be the OL 6th man. He might be an improvement over Barclay.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Linsley has done better than expected, but he's had quite a few penalties. I think Tretter is a better player, but I'm not sure Tretter with 6-8 weeks off is better. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins back the job--probably won't happen until an injury opens a spot for him. Who is more likely to kick out with an injury? My guess is Linsley because I think they want Tretter as their long-term starter at OC.

[pbmax]

Linsley has done better than expected, but he's had quite a few penalties. I think Tretter is a better player, but I'm not sure Tretter with 6-8 weeks off is better. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins back the job--probably won't happen until an injury opens a spot for him. Who is more likely to kick out with an injury? My guess is Linsley because I think they want Tretter as their long-term starter at OC.

Two of Linsley's penalties were him simply man-handling his guy and twisting him to the ground (either Bears or Vikings). Looked for all the world like holding to the ref though. Was quite amazing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Two of Linsley's penalties were him simply man-handling his guy and twisting him to the ground (either Bears or Vikings). Looked for all the world like holding to the ref though. Was quite amazing.

I haven't seen him make a bad penalty all year. The holds were bogus.

I wonder if Sherrod, Taylor and Gerhardt are the worst backups in the NFL. I know it is impossible for a fan to judge this. For sure they are the worst backups the Packers have ever had in my perception.

Tretter coming back is not a luxury, some starter will miss some time.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think that means much anymore. Under the new rules, only the strength & conditioning coaches are allowed to work with the players, except for the few days of off season camps. The players are permitted only minimal time with footballs. MM complained about the fact that centers, qbs, holders, punters and kickers whose basic functions require handling the football aren't allowed to use one during most of the off season.

Tretter never played center in a game until the first preseason game this year. I suspect that he will have to focus on the basics of being a center more than an experienced center like Linsley would have to.

By the time Tretter comes back, he will be the green-eyed rookie and Linsley will be the "vet".

Good point, but he also had a full year learning the green bay offense. Linsley had a lot more to learn from an X and O standpoint.

[Patler]

Good point, but he also had a full year learning the green bay offense. Linsley had a lot more to learn from an X and O standpoint.

Book study, maybe; but Tretter has no advantage over Linsley in practice time with GB. In fact, the advantage might actually go to Linsley in actual practice time. With Linsley's overall advantage in game time as a center in college and the NFL, I think any subtleties for silent count plays would be easier for Linsley to handle than Tretter at this point.

Long term, Tretter might be their guy, but Linsley won't be a push-over to get out of the starting lineup, especially with MM's comments this week about Linsley long term career path.

[sharpe1027]

Book study, maybe; but Tretter has no advantage over Linsley in practice time with GB. In fact, the advantage might actually go to Linsley in actual practice time. With Linsley's overall advantage in game time as a center in college and the NFL, I think any subtleties for silent count plays would be easier for Linsley to handle than Tretter at this point.

Long term, Tretter might be their guy, but Linsley won't be a push-over to get out of the starting lineup, especially with MM's comments this week about Linsley long term career path.

I do not think that's accurate.


"Mentally, everything that he could possibly do to this standpoint based on the medical situation that he went through, you'd be very pleased with now," McCarthy said. "He hasn't played a snap in a game, and I get all the concerns and I understand that, but he's another young man that's in there early in the morning every day working out, voluntarily."

Tretter spent most of the season on the physically unable to perform list, but he was added to the 53-man roster so that he could get in valuable practice time. He was able to start practicing Nov. 19 and got in seven weeks of work.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jc-tretter-to-get-first-stab-at-packers-center-job-b99235183z1-252842491.html

[denverYooper]

I do not think that's accurate.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jc-tretter-to-get-first-stab-at-packers-center-job-b99235183z1-252842491.html

?? Your article is from March 24, 2014. A lot has changed since then, including Linsley being drafted, being asked to play on little preparation and playing well in live game situations. If you're referring to the number of weeks/reps, Tretter injured his leg on Aug 22nd. We're in week 7, and Linsley has started every week. So he's gotten 7 weeks of practice and game reps with the #1 offense plus 2 weeks. That's 9 weeks with the 1s and there are 3.5 weeks until they can activate Tretter. 12.5 weeks with the 1s and 8 real games. There is a lot of difference between mental reps and live ones, and by the time Tretter gets back, Linsley will have played over half of this season's away games (SEA,DET,CHI,MIA,NOR) in some very challenging environs -- which was the original animus of this whole Linsley vs Tretter snap count discussion.

I don't see how it's going to just be straightforward to unseat Linsley at this point, regardless of what M3 said in March of this year.

[Pugger]

Tretter was a tackle in college. Seeing as how poorly the most recent Sherrod experiment went, I think it's more likely he is cut and Tretter is a backup tackle, not guard.

However, by all accounts Tretter was winning the center contest in TC hands down so I wouldn't dismiss Tretter returning to the starting lineup just yet.

[3irty1]

I'm not convinced Linsley is doing a good job. He's certainly has proven to not be a liability as a snapper or blocker but the responsibility of making line calls and such also falls on the center and I can't help but wonder if he's the reason our line is playing so much worse than the sum of its parts, particularly in the run game.

However, Tretter can probably play 5/5 positions on the OL. He may be the better starter at center but he's definitely the better backup.

[Patler]

From Mike McCarthy:


I think from a confidence standpoint with Corey, no one ever wavered because what you were able to see him do in training camp. He's one of those guys, as a rookie, that came in here and you knew right away he belonged. First day of pads, this guy – he's a powerful young man and fit right in. That's why I was never worried about him because mentally he's very sharp, very detailed, played in a big time program. He has a lot of things going for him. I will say this, if things keep going the way they're going, I think we'll look back on this start as one of the more impressive situations a young player has stepped up and performed in my time here, and we've had a lot guys step up.(Emphasis added.)

Doesn't sound to me like MM is likely to put Tretter in, just to see how he will do. There might be an open competition in training camp next year, but I suspect the job is Linsley's for this year.

Tretter was doing well, but that was preseason facing a lot of marginal guys and simple defenses. We have seen a lot of preseason stars who perform much less well when the season starts. Linsley will have half the season in by the time Tretter is ready to play, maybe more.

[Patler]

I do not think that's accurate.



http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/jc-tretter-to-get-first-stab-at-packers-center-job-b99235183z1-252842491.html

what are you questioning the accuracy of?

[Guiness]

However, by all accounts Tretter was winning the center contest in TC hands down so I wouldn't dismiss Tretter returning to the starting lineup just yet.

He might, but I don't think it will be this season without an injury or someone really shitting the bed. I agree with the others here that Tretter's starting experience (0 games!) is key, it's not like it's Alex Mack or Nick Mangold coming back. Linsey is a season vet in comparison. The dude in charge of line calls, snap counts, etc, is not something you want to change part way through the seaon

[sharpe1027]

?? Your article is from March 24, 2014. A lot has changed since then, including Linsley being drafted, being asked to play on little preparation and playing well in live game situations. If you're referring to the number of weeks/reps, Tretter injured his leg on Aug 22nd. We're in week 7, and Linsley has started every week. So he's gotten 7 weeks of practice and game reps with the #1 offense plus 2 weeks. That's 9 weeks with the 1s and there are 3.5 weeks until they can activate Tretter. 12.5 weeks with the 1s and 8 real games. There is a lot of difference between mental reps and live ones, and by the time Tretter gets back, Linsley will have played over half of this season's away games (SEA,DET,CHI,MIA,NOR) in some very challenging environs -- which was the original animus of this whole Linsley vs Tretter snap count discussion.

I don't see how it's going to just be straightforward to unseat Linsley at this point, regardless of what M3 said in March of this year.

I don't expect Tretter to unseat Linsley at this point either.

[3irty1]

He might, but I don't think it will be this season without an injury or someone really shitting the bed. I agree with the others here that Tretter's starting experience (0 games!) is key, it's not like it's Alex Mack or Nick Mangold coming back. Linsey is a season vet in comparison. The dude in charge of line calls, snap counts, etc, is not something you want to change part way through the seaon

Linsley was a vet in comparison coming into this season as well though and didn't win the job. He's snapped more games than everyone else on the Packers roster combined. And not disrupting the line to not interrupt its chemistry only makes sense if they aren't playing like shit.

[sharpe1027]

what are you questioning the accuracy of?

Relative to the issue we were discussing, snap counts during the past games, they might have been more limited with Linsely because he had less practice time than Tretter. Of course, this will eventually reverse itself as the injury time mounts.

[Patler]

Relative to the issue we were discussing, snap counts during the past games, they might have been more limited with Linsely because he had less practice time than Tretter. Of course, this will eventually reverse itself as the injury time mounts.

I suspect it already has. Linsley probably had as many quality practice reps after the first month of the season as Tretter has had in his career to date. Athletically, they might be more limited with Linsley, but I doubt they are on their expectations for the mental aspect of playing the position.

[pbmax]

Tretter back at practice today.

Practice week reps are not as good as camp reps. You never have 1 versus 1 in practice and there is no hitting. Tretter also saw #1 starters from teams in the preseason.

But Linsley's 6 starts trump that edge. Now its just a question of how impressed the coaches have been by those starts.

I don't trust McCarthy's estimations of his young players. He has been misleading or wrong before about jumps. But I also haven't seen much evidence of Linsley bungling the job.

[Bossman641]

I know MM has been very complimentary of Linsley, but I wouldn't be shocked if they went back to Tretter. Let's not forget they switched from Saturday to EDS in week 15. I'm guessing the gap from EDS to Saturday is a lot bigger than whatever gap exists between Tretter and Linsley, but I'm just saying it could happen.

There is no denying the line is under performing.

[Patler]

Interesting comment from an article at the end of preseason:


This injury was particularly disappointing because Tretter was having himself a very nice preseason, grading out with a +2.5 in 78 snaps. His replacement happens to have been even better, with a +3.2, fifth-best in the league (Tretter was eighth-best.) Linsley has allowed a mere one pressure in 65 pass-blocking snaps, and his +3.5 in the run game was second in the NFL at the end of Week 3. Granted, he's taken all of his snaps versus second- and third-team players, but he's done everything the team really could have hoped for. While losing Tretter is a blow to the offense, Linsley should at least be a capable stopgap until Tretter's return, and he performed his duties as anchor of the O-line without a hitch against Kansas City. And if he plays lights-out, he might never look back. One scout told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel that he didn't think the Packers would miss a beat with Linsley in the lineup; it's time to find out if that's true.

[Patler]

Tretter back at practice today.

Practice week reps are not as good as camp reps. You never have 1 versus 1 in practice and there is no hitting. Tretter also saw #1 starters from teams in the preseason.

But Linsley's 6 starts trump that edge. Now its just a question of how impressed the coaches have been by those starts.

I don't trust McCarthy's estimations of his young players. He has been misleading or wrong before about jumps. But I also haven't seen much evidence of Linsley bungling the job.

Glad to see that Tretter actually is ready to start practicing again. Packer injuries usually drag on longer than originally expected.

[Pugger]

Linsley was a vet in comparison coming into this season as well though and didn't win the job. He's snapped more games than everyone else on the Packers roster combined. And not disrupting the line to not interrupt its chemistry only makes sense if they aren't playing like shit.

We can't say the line played wonderfully on Sunday by any stretch of the imagination so if Tretter is performing better in practice the next few weeks there could possibly be a change there after the bye when JC can play again.

[Fritz]

As for the thread title, I do not think that Cobb has played himself into the kind of in-season extension offer that the likes of BJ Raji and Greg Jennings received from the team.

He seems to be having a little trouble getting open, and making the tough catches.

[Joemailman]

Cobb is on pace to have 77 receptions for 816 yards and 19 touchdowns. That should be worth something. He won't get a huge deal yet, but I could see him signing a 3 year extension. I don't think Cobb has regressed. I do think he's drawing more attention from defenses because as we saw Sunday, teams feel they can cover the Packer TE's with a LB.

[Fritz]

I dunno, Joe. That looks like a nice stat line, but that explosiveness and big-play potential seems to be missing so far. And he's really not making tough catches.

[denverYooper]

I dunno, Joe. That looks like a nice stat line, but that explosiveness and big-play potential seems to be missing so far. And he's really not making tough catches.

He's getting open for TDs and helping their red zone production. Green Bay was really struggling in that facet of their game last year.

[Tony Oday]

A sub 1,000 yard WR :(

[MadScientist]

Cobb is on pace to have 77 receptions for 816 yards and 19 touchdowns. That should be worth something. He won't get a huge deal yet, but I could see him signing a 3 year extension. I don't think Cobb has regressed. I do think he's drawing more attention from defenses because as we saw Sunday, teams feel they can cover the Packer TE's with a LB.

Given NFL inflation he'll probably get 10-15M over 3 years. His strength is in the broken play - getting open when Rodgers is scrambling. Given Rodger's ability to extend a play, it's a valuable skill. Not getting open in the first place is a problem.

[Joemailman]

I dunno, Joe. That looks like a nice stat line, but that explosiveness and big-play potential seems to be missing so far. And he's really not making tough catches.

I don't think Cobb ever was that explosive. His YPC in 2012 was about the same as it is in 2014, which is just under 12 YPC. He's not Percy Harvin. If he was, he wouldn't have been available at the end of the 2nd round. His strong point is his versatility. You can line him up anywhere, including the backfield. And he catches touchdowns. Touchdowns are good.

[Tony Oday]

And he would have been traded twice...Harvin must be a dick.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Cobb sure looked like a competent WR today. His asking price is going up, up, up

[3irty1]

Jury is in on Cobb. He's fine.