heroes and goats

[Harlan Huckleby]

stud: Lacy

dud: Lane Taylor

I was thinking of giving TT a dud for having backups of Sherrod, Taylor and Gerhardt. But then I thought about Linsley and decided to spare Ted.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You are forgetting Barclay. We have solid depth until Barclay and Tretter went down.

[Patler]

stud: Lacy

dud: Lane Taylor

I was thinking of giving TT a dud for having backups of Sherrod, Taylor and Gerhardt. But then I thought about Linsley and decided to spare Ted.

In fairness to him, I think Barclay was the plan for a backup at both tackle and guard.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Stud: Lady Luck for giving us two very good maybe great quarterbacks in a row, which has kept the hope alive for more super bowls.

Dud: Lady luck for not giving us the supporting cast to take advantage of Rogers, which may mean no more super bowls in my lifetime.

Life sucks and then you die...

[wist43]

Studs: none

duds: Stubby and dunderdummy.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Studs: MM, Rodgers, Lacy, Cobb, Sitton, Linsley, Bakh (minus few penalties) and HHCD. Would add Peppers if he didn't drop that TD. I liked MM aggressiveness with the 4th and 1 and the onside kick.

Duds: Capers, Bulaga, Taylor, Daniels, Boyd, Hawk, Lattimore, Barrington, Jones, Matthews, Hyde, Williams, House, Perry, and Neal.

[Bossman641]

Studs - Lacy, Cobb
Duds - Lane Taylor and the OT's, Quarless, Peppers as a TE, the run D, House, tackling by the secondary

[pbmax]

As for thread title:

So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

Did they get you to trade your heroes for goats?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

[red]

Heros for ghosts

Smh

[pbmax]

Heros for ghosts

Smh

Not in this thread.

[red]

Ill mention tramon again. His inability to jump was exposed last week. The saints paid attention and took advantage of that 2 or 3 times that i saw last night.

Bigger wrs dont even need to jump with him on them

[Harlan Huckleby]

You are forgetting Barclay. We have solid depth until Barclay and Tretter went down.

I don't blame TT for thinking that Sherrod would at least be an average player who could fill in.

Our offensive line depth is terrible, but it is an act of God. If I were MM, I would give Tretter snaps at tackle or guard each and every game.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wish you were here.

Wish I was back in the dorms

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2p2jnNszE1qap9uuo1_500.gif

Actually the dorm sucked and lead to unhealthy lifestyle choices like endless bagels and cream cheese.
I think "Dark Side of the Moon" was only Pink Floyd I endulged in, and lava lamps were already corny.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Studs: none

duds: Stubby and dunderdummy.
I totally agree with this.

Start with Capers... Reportedly, Capers game plans to stop either the run or the pass, depending upon the opponent. This game, the defense stopped neither the run nor the pass. Mark Ingram rushed for 172 yards, for crying out loud. You can't beat a team with an elite QB by letting them rush for those kind of numbers.

As the game went on, the rush defense got worse. No adjustments at halftime on the defense. If there were some, they failed.

Capers didn't fool Payton and Brees. The Packers' pass rush was negated by quick throws to the middle and the judicious use of screen passes. In the second half, when Brees got Jimmy Graham involved, the Packers had no answer and it was game over.

As bad as Capers performed, Stubby was worse...

The Packers' offense started fast, but instead of playing to their strengths, McCarthy got cute. The pass to Peppers was a joke. You've got two of the top WR in the league, a sure-handed rookie, and Quarless who caught the same pass two weeks earlier to win the game against the Dolphins. Instead, Rodgers throws a bullet to an elephant LB. I'm assuming Stubby made the call. I'm assuming they spent valuable game-prep time practicing it. My only question is: Why?

Then, for some unknown reason, Stubby decides to get cute with an onsides kick, giving Brees the ball in Packer territory. Again, why? You're 3 points yup. The offense is moving the ball. It's early. Why?

Some say Stubby was just being aggressive. I disagree. It was a foolish risk, with an improbably upside, for what? To demoralize Brees?

And if Stubby is such an aggressive, risk-happy coach, consider the 4th and 1 call: a fairly pedestrian -- and predictable -- Lacy carry. If McCarthy was a risk-taker, why not fling a pass downfield on that play, with the defense up?

The week before, when Payton, Brees and Company took a licking, they took inventory of themselves. Each player looked within himself and took responsibility. They vowed to turn their game around...and did.

Let's hope Stubby, Capers and company do the same. This team is not as good as they thought they were.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I totally agree with this.


The Packers' offense started fast, but instead of playing to their strengths, McCarthy got cute. The pass to Peppers was a joke. You've got two of the top WR in the league, a sure-handed rookie, and Quarless who caught the same pass two weeks earlier to win the game against the Dolphins. Instead, Rodgers throws a bullet to an elephant LB. I'm assuming Stubby made the call. I'm assuming they spent valuable game-prep time practicing it. My only question is: Why?

Then, for some unknown reason, Stubby decides to get cute with an onsides kick, giving Brees the ball in Packer territory. Again, why? You're 3 points yup. The offense is moving the ball. It's early. Why?

Some say Stubby was just being aggressive. I disagree. It was a foolish risk, with an improbably upside, for what? To demoralize Brees?



I thought the Peppers play was clever. McCarthy rarely shows any creativity, as he is a dull moor, so its nice to see a clever play out of him other than the "Raji fullback gut freezer X."

The D couldn't stop Brees or that no name RB. Shoulda onsided after every score. Woulda prevented the Saints O from milking too much of the clock.

[Pugger]

You are forgetting Barclay. We have solid depth until Barclay and Tretter went down.

Thankfully Tretter will be back after the bye.

[Pugger]

Ill mention tramon again. His inability to jump was exposed last week. The saints paid attention and took advantage of that 2 or 3 times that i saw last night.

Bigger wrs dont even need to jump with him on them

I don't think Tramon is 100% yet and Brees picked on House mercilessly.

[Pugger]

I thought the Peppers play was clever. McCarthy rarely shows any creativity, as he is a dull moor, so its nice to see a clever play out of him other than the "Raji fullback gut freezer X."

The D couldn't stop Brees or that no name RB. Shoulda onsided after every score. Woulda prevented the Saints O from milking too much of the clock.

That pass to Peppers was executed perfectly except Julius dropped it. Not many D's stop Brees unless they can rush the passer and we failed at that last night.

[pbmax]

I totally agree with this.

Start with Capers... Reportedly, Capers game plans to stop either the run or the pass, depending upon the opponent. This game, the defense stopped neither the run nor the pass. Mark Ingram rushed for 172 yards, for crying out loud. You can't beat a team with an elite QB by letting them rush for those kind of numbers.

They came out after halftime in single high safety to stop Ingram. The result was Graham going off and then the deep game got involved. So there were adjustments and they made the situation worse. What defensive alignment would you suggest that Capers deploy instead?

All you suggest is for Capers, against one of the five best QB and one of the 3 best passing attacks to focus on the run. That approach allowed NO to score 30 points in a half. I prefer letting Ingram rush for 100 in a half and allow 16 points total because they had trouble getting into the end zone from the red zone as well.

How about this instead? The only Packer defenders who get clear off blocks on a regular basis are Peppers and Matthews. Add in the deep safety and that is three guys free to make a correct form tackle. The deep safety is usually a rookie.

Eight other guys are in the process of being tied into knots by their blocker and cannot disengage. Some never get loose, some get one hand free, some dive at the ground trying to bury the block or trip the ball carrier. But guess what those 8 guys look like when they try to tackle? They look like players who cannot employ fundamentals to make a tackle. McCarthy mentioned this today in his presser.

But I don't think its tackling fundamentals. Its defeating the blocker across from you and disengaging at the correct moment. That had been happening in the previous 4 games, it didn't last night.

The question isn't whether Capers is dumb or the scapegoat for his game plan. Do the Packers have the players who can play a scheme he can coach? After that one game, it looks again like a colossal mismatch. And it has seemed that way whenever they meet a team they cannot turn into a one dimensional opponent.

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

[pbmax]

The other alternative is that the Asstants on D cannot coach how to defeat a block. Its possible, but while there are some thin coaching pedigrees on the offense, the D has some guys who have had major success before. Results don't match though.

The worst failing on defense beside tackling was pass rush. It disappeared in the second half. Despite Peppers, its still way too intermittent to protect the backend.

[Joemailman]

The DC will always take the fall, but the brain trust has to figure out how to match the players to a coach's scheme. It hasn't happened since they had Collins, Woodson and Matthews at his peak health.

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

[Patler]

The pass to Peppers was a joke. You've got two of the top WR in the league, a sure-handed rookie, and Quarless who caught the same pass two weeks earlier to win the game against the Dolphins. Instead, Rodgers throws a bullet to an elephant LB. I'm assuming Stubby made the call. I'm assuming they spent valuable game-prep time practicing it. My only question is: Why?

Then, for some unknown reason, Stubby decides to get cute with an onsides kick, giving Brees the ball in Packer territory. Again, why? You're 3 points yup. The offense is moving the ball. It's early. Why?


I also disliked the pass to Peppers. I don't like passes to OT's playing TE, or handoffs to DT's playing FB for the same reasons. These are guys not comfortable with handling the ball. If they are there because injuries have decimated a position, that's one thing. But a bullet pass to Peppers when you have three able-bodied TE's on your roster? Why?

I'm not as opposed to the onside kick. Crosby is pretty good at them, and it is a surprise that has worked in the past. But it seemed kind of early to tell the defense that you have no faith in their ability to stop the Saints, so you are resorting to trickery to steal a possession.

[Patler]

I thought the Peppers play was clever. McCarthy rarely shows any creativity, as he is a dull moor, so its nice to see a clever play out of him other than the "Raji fullback gut freezer X."


How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.

[pbmax]

So, the scheme only works if you have at least 3 Pro Bowlers on your defense? In addition to those, I would add that Tramon and Raji had career years in 2010. There are teams that play respectable defense with less. At times, the defense has looked like they've turned a corner, and then you have a performance like last night. Halfway through the season, the defense is still a bit of a mystery.

Its only in the top 8 (25%) in the League with 3 Pro Bowlers and 2 near Pro Bowlers, yes. That kind of goes with the territory.

I would tend to think that defenses doing much more with less (say the Cowboys this year) in a non-fluke, non-no film, new scheme way are actually more talented that people realize at the time (see Packers D in 2009).

But its possible Capers scheme yields huge variability when poorly executed. And I believe its been poorly executed. Even the players who have been lauded in this short season have been very up and down (Matthews, Daniels, Peppers, Shields). Ironically, the most consistent might be Burnett. In the front seven, who was free and clear to make a tackle versus Ingram last night? All the missed blocks, other than dives by filling DBs, were guys that couldn't get off their blocks.

wist might get his wish because I am not sure that any nickel he throws out there this year can defend the run. So it will only be of use when they have a good lead later in the game. The only problem is that when they ran 3-4 in the second half after getting gashed on the ground again, it was just as leaky.

[pbmax]

How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

[channtheman]

For all the talk of how great Cobb has been in the red zone (and he has), did we throw to him even ONCE in the red zone last night? I don't recall any. I liked the early onside kick and even contemplated doing it every time as we never stopped them between the 20's either. I also liked the 4th down decision, but absolutely hated the call. As soon as I could tell he was going to run, I knew we weren't going to get it. Lacy looked great in the screen game. It'd be nice if we could utiize that a bit more this season. He had a couple of nice catches on at least one occasion when the ball was behind him.

The genius of the NFL coach is a myth though. Sean Payton early in the 2nd half went for it on 4th down as well by running twice up the middle. The first time lost 2 yards, the second got no gain. 2 guys, same mistake. I thought both HC should have passed in those situations.

[channtheman]

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

It felt like the Packers were hoping the Saints would think we would do that, and were hoping to fool the Saints by having Peppers run a slant. It should have worked, but Peppers dropped the pass.

[Patler]

As the WR is a former basketball guy who is 6' 7", I would have preferred a jump ball thrown to him. The slant was weird. You have to know how to cut off your DB and extend to catch.

Problem is, he is a former basketball player of about 100 years ago. I think he played with Naismith using a peach basket, didn't he? Not sure it means a lot anymore after 15 years or so playing and training as a D lineman.

[Patler]

It should have worked, but Peppers dropped the pass.

But that is exactly the issue, relying on a guy who is unaccustomed to handling the ball, and expecting him to cleanly catch a hard pass from Rodgers. When you you see OTs and others getting passes from a TE or FB position, it tends to be lob they can handle. I know, Peppers is a tremendous athlete, but the fact is he dropped a very catchable ball for a person accustomed to catching.

[channtheman]

But that is exactly the issue, relying on a guy who is unaccustomed to handling the ball, and expecting him to cleanly catch a hard pass from Rodgers. When you you see OTs and others getting passes from a TE or FB position, it tends to be lob they can handle. I know, Peppers is a tremendous athlete, but the fact is he dropped a very catchable ball for a person accustomed to catching.

I don't disagree with you. I was puzzled when we didn't go for a pass to Cobb, considering how good he has been for us in the red zone.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Wish I was back in the dorms



Wish I was still the young stud I was back in them jolly institutionalized days. :sad:

[Tyrion Lannister]

How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.

I thought Peppers lined up in the backfield, then motioned wide?

That was a clever play. Packers simply did not execute. Otherwise, it would be the most talked about play in Packers nation since Favre threw a lateral to Bubba Franks who then threw a TD to Driver, I believe.

[Patler]

That was a clever play. Packers simply did not execute.

Correction - Peppers didn't execute.

[Teamcheez1]

It was depressing to read JSO this morning to find that our run defense has sunk to 32nd. Eight games into the season with no real improvement in that aspect of our defense. Same problems, same answers from the coaching staff.

[KYPack]

How is that clever? You split him out wide and throw to him? Clever might be lining him up in the backfield, or as a TIGHT end, positions in which the D might expect him to block, then freeing him up for a pass. Splitting him wide and throwing to him is not clever at all.


You are trying to explain football to Tank.

Impossible task.

[Freak Out]

Hero - Lacy, Cobb,

Goat - The Defense, M3, Hair Piece, Zebra Crew

[Freak Out]

Correction - Peppers didn't execute.

It was really a stupid call I thought. If you are going to run a slant throw it to a real receiver. The ball hit him in the chest.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It was really a stupid call I thought. If you are going to run a slant throw it to a real receiver. The ball hit him in the chest.

I know this dead horse has been beaten to a pile of flesh and hair and pulverized internal organs. But expecting Peterson to catch a Rodgers fast ball is like playing an athletic offensive lineman at linebacker. It's insulting to the receiving craft to think you can just do it skillfully in game situations without lots of practice.

[ThunderDan]

I know this dead horse has been beaten to a pile of flesh and hair and pulverized internal organs. But expecting Peterson to catch a Rodgers fast ball is like playing an athletic offensive lineman at linebacker. It's insulting to the receiving craft to think you can just do it skillfully in game situations without lots of practice.

And yet there was a whole group here who thought it would be cool to have Peppers at TE after his interception return for a TD a few weeks ago.

[ThunderDan]

I liked the idea of having Peppers in there but that needs to be a jump ball not a fastball on a slant.

[Guiness]

I know this dead horse has been beaten to a pile of flesh and hair and pulverized internal organs. But expecting Peterson to catch a Rodgers fast ball is like playing an athletic offensive lineman at linebacker. It's insulting to the receiving craft to think you can just do it skillfully in game situations without lots of practice.

+1, my thoughts as well. Not the fastball. I'll watch again, but I bet you can see his eyes go wide as he realizes how fast that thing is moving!

[Patler]

+1, my thoughts as well. Not the fastball. I'll watch again, but I bet you can see his eyes go wide as he realizes how fast that thing is moving!
From the mouths of the participants:



"We ran the slant, and he threw a fastball," Peppers said. "It was a little hot, so I couldn't get my hands up in time to snag it."

"It was a little harder than maybe he was expecting," Rodgers said of his pass. "Yeah, he ran a good route and got his chest on it. Pep's a talented guy. We've ran that play at practice a number of times and he's come down with it. That one was probably faster than he was used to."

[Maxie the Taxi]

They came out after halftime in single high safety to stop Ingram. The result was Graham going off and then the deep game got involved. So there were adjustments and they made the situation worse. What defensive alignment would you suggest that Capers deploy instead?



I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

[pbmax]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

I agree about pressure. ESPNWisconsin or someone referred to Pro Football Focus and said that the Packers blitzed on 10 of 35 Brees drop backs. He had a perfect passer rating on the throws without a blitz. I am a little dubious about that as I THINK Matthews caught him on a base pressure play (though there was no throw obviously).

But it goes without saying that if you go high pressure, you are going to get strafed by well timed runs with your pass rush unit out there. That is not really a threat with the Colts unless its Luck himself.

And that brings me around to the critical failure of this coach and this GM. They don't seem able to collect and develop the talent to get pass rush out of their base personnel. And as wist has pointed out, it becomes a tell. Now, if you can leverage it into favorable down and distance, then it doesn't matter. But as Capers said in the JSO writeup, without good tackling, it was too often 3rd and 2, not 3rd and 9.

[Guiness]

From the mouths of the participants:

Ya, that about makes sense. First time they did that one under the lights, and everyone got a little excited.

[Pugger]

I know this dead horse has been beaten to a pile of flesh and hair and pulverized internal organs. But expecting Peterson to catch a Rodgers fast ball is like playing an athletic offensive lineman at linebacker. It's insulting to the receiving craft to think you can just do it skillfully in game situations without lots of practice.

Does AR throw harder/faster in games? Evidently they have been practicing having Pep in this situation since TC.

[Pugger]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did. :sad:

[Maxie the Taxi]

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did. :sad:

You're probably right, although I never felt like Dom fully committed to rushing Brees. I remember when Dom first came on the scene and the only word the stuck in my mind as the key to his defense was "disruption." Nowadays the GB defense doesn't disrupt the opposing offense, it merely inconveniences it.

[George Cumby]

You're probably right, although I never felt like Dom fully committed to rushing Brees. I remember when Dom first came on the scene and the only word the stuck in my mind as the key to his defense was "disruption." Nowadays the GB defense doesn't disrupt the opposing offense, it merely inconveniences it.

Minorly.

[Striker]

I don't know enough about the technical side of football to make a comment. I watch the game as a fan and am frustrated by the inability of a long-time, respected coach like Capers to devise a defense with the talent he has to shut down at least ONE aspect of the Saints' offense.

Ingram's performance was NOT Gale Sayers' like. He was running through mile-wide holes in our defense. And Brees had loads of time to throw.

I felt prior to the game that we had to pressure Brees to have any chance of winning. We didn't pressure Brees except on a handful of plays. To me it seemed like Capers couldn't commit to a game plan, kind of like a pro golfer who's not committed fully to a particular shot.

Did you watch the Pittsburgh/Indianapolis game? Dick LeBeau fully committed to pressuring Andrew Luck that game, no matter the consequences. He blitzed the house on most plays and Luck didn't have a prayer. LeBeau rushed so many people the Colts' RB's got hit by the traffic in the backfield, so their running game was stymied.

It seems football games are won in your opponents backfield. Nowadays pressure and penetration rule. I thought Dom initially brought that philosophy to Green Bay. Not now. Maybe we don't have the horses to get the job done.

It's probably a split between personnel and philosophy. Capers contemporaries seem to adjust with varying levels of talent. The Patriots have had revolving doors at numerous positions but their defense seems to manage. The numerous mental mistakes, blown assignments, and sloppy play point more to coaching than talent.

At the same, they seemed to over correct heavily this year. McCarthy and Capers "wanted" to get faster and leaner along the line. So they dumped the big uglies up front except for Raji and now they'll get knocked around by power teams, especially on fast tracks.

[Cleft Crusty]

Perhaps Dom was trying to get after Brees - running game be damned - but we just didn't get home? It seemed like we tried to utilize our new fangled NASCAR package and more DBs than LBers but when you allow a QB like Brees time you are gonna get burned like we did. :sad:

Your assessment is spot on, but in New Orleans, Capers didn't have the horses to get it done. As I mentioned somewhere else, Packers needed that central core, right up the middle of D. Jones, Burnett, and Shields. Clearly the Packers value the speed of Burnett and Shields, as they shelled out some decent cash for those two. Like most teams, they can't afford to have three starters out, especially at high value positions, and on a defense that doesn't have much wiggle room for error.

[Harlan Huckleby]

D. Jones, Burnett, and Shields. Clearly the Packers value the speed of Burnett and Shields, as they shelled out some decent cash for those two. Like most teams, they can't afford to have three starters out, especially at high value positions, and on a defense that doesn't have much wiggle room for error.

As long as we are wallowing in self-pity, Raji makes 4. Guion is looking pretty decent, but the bullpen is weak.