Midseason Night Grades

[Tyrion Lannister]

I don't have McGinn's credentials, but I can be just as blunt as he is. Here's my position-by-position grades of the Packers after 8 games.

Quarterbacks (B): Rodgers played scared against Seattle, looked like Tolzien against Detriot and threw a bunch of picks vs. New Orleans...'12' also destroyed a bunch of hapless, tasteless teams...Flynn was terrible in garbage time.

Runningbacks (D+): For the most part, Lacy played slow and fat...Was a pimp in a couple of games...Stark has been average...Harris, elusive and fast, didn't play much from scrimmage thanks in large part to the coaches' stupidity...Kuhn was Kuhn.

Wide Receivers (B-): Nelson dominated Jordy Island...With a saftey over the top, however, wasn't so effective...Cobb scored TDs in bunches but also had problem separating from slow, bumish safeties...Adams was "solid" but also prone to crucial rookie mistakes...Boykin, I still remember a time not so long ago when this working-class hero was arousing us with his plays...Not anymore...WTF? Janis wasn't targeted once on a bomb.

Tight Ends (F-): Quarless caught game winner against Miami but didn't do shit for the most part...Rodgers, slow as fuck, didn't scare anyone...Bostick, what the fuck happened to this bum?...J-Mike must be healed by now...Man, I used to hang with J-Mike, even slang with J-Mike...Used to bang with J-Mike, goddamn I miss J-Mike...Master P still rapping?

Offensive linemen (C-): Bak was so-so and flag-prone...Bulaga, inconsistent...Lang and Sitton did not play "great" but they were "solid"...The rookie? Average...The Packers ran the ball well in the preseason with Tretter at center, so Tretter should be the starting center post-bye...The backups were/are bums, especially Sherry.

Defensive linemen (D): Not a single bona fide run clogger on the D-line...Gilbert Brown, at his current age, would do a better job vs the run than these bums...Daniels underachieved...Jones was arousing us a bit but then he got hurt...Neal was a JAG.

OLBers (B): Peppers was active for an "old" man...Claymaker disappeared at times but at least only once was it due to his fragile body...Perry found a niche as a breather OLB.

ILBers (F-): None of these bums could shed blocks, blitz or cover...Hawk is easily having his worst season as a "mediocre" pro, and this guy was once benched for, gasp, Brandon Chillar...Brad Jones? A poor man's Hawks, if there's one...The other guys were and are bums.

Corners (B+): Shields was having a pro bowl season before the knee thing..Williams used to win endzone jump balls; not anymore...Heyward showed that he can start in the No Fun League...As a nickle/dime corner, House didn't play too bad, but he ain't starter material.

Safeties (C): Burnett played like a pimp for the most part...Ha-Ha showed flashes but his tackling was inconsistent...Hyde simply sucked and sucked like a sucker sucking a...

Special teams (C+): Crosby was good; Masthsay, OK. Coverage and return units were OK.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers has 19 TD passes and 3 INT's (2 tipped) despite playing against 3 of the top 5 pass defenses in the NFL. His game against Miami was in his top 5 all time.

Lacy has been good the last 4 weeks averaging more than 5 YPC after a slow start. He and Starks are both averaging over 4 YPC despite running out of the shotgun most of the time, not an optimal running formation.

Crosby hasn't been good, he's been great. His only FG miss was blocked, and his kickoffs have been great.

Burnett has been very good. His absence at NO was a huge factor.

Other than those things, you're not too far off. :-)

[red]

I can agree with most of those grades. A-rod has not been playing up to his usual level, despite his insane stat line.

Running backs is a bit harsh. I would say around a C

ILB is a bit harsh. But I would say no higher then a D

Special teamshas been pretty bad accept for crosby, he gets an A or A+ all by himself

[Harlan Huckleby]

Most of the grades look reasonable

I'm giving the TEs a D+. Oh heck, C-. Q has been OK.

Your RB beat-down is way harsh

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I agree with most, but these few. Rodgers alone makes QBs an "A." We are 2-6 or 1-7 without Rodgers. Sitton is a stud and has played great. I wouldn't say Shields was having a pro bowl season, but a solid season though.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Lacy has been good the last 4 weeks averaging more than 5 YPC after a slow start. He and Starks are both averaging over 4 YPC despite running out of the shotgun most of the time, not an optimal running formation.

Burnett has been very good. His absence at NO was a huge factor.



Didn't realize Lacy was coming on lately. Guess the image of Lacy getting stuffed for no gain on that infamous 4th and 1 play in the Saints game must still be playing in my head.

Burnett's absence hurt, but I thought Shield's hurt even more. With his great speed, Sammy woulda matched up well against Cook.




ILB is a bit harsh. But I would say no higher then a D



Granted, the Packers lack a run-stuffing fat DT, but ILBers/MLBers are supposed to be a runningback's worst nightmare. Hawk and his band of bums have thus far failed miserably to attack inside rushes.


I wouldn't say Shields was having a pro bowl season, but a solid season though.

Maybe I'm jacking off too much, and thus am losing memory brain cells, but I can't recall a time this season where Shields allowed a TD pass other than the simi-trick play where Jeffry reversed direction at the snap and caught Shields off guard.



I'm giving the TEs a D+. Oh heck, C-. Q has been OK.



Ok ain't J-Mike good. :razz:

[Patler]

Didn't realize Lacy was coming on lately. Guess the image of Lacy getting stuffed for no gain on that infamous 4th and 1 play in the Saints game must still be playing in my head.

If you are blaming Lacy for the failure of that play, you are completely and unequivocally wrong.

[Zool]

Rodgers has 19 TD passes and 3 INT's (2 tipped) despite playing against 3 of the top 5 pass defenses in the NFL. His game against Miami was in his top 5 all time.

Lacy has been good the last 4 weeks averaging more than 5 YPC after a slow start. He and Starks are both averaging over 4 YPC despite running out of the shotgun most of the time, not an optimal running formation.

Crosby hasn't been good, he's been great. His only FG miss was blocked, and his kickoffs have been great.

Burnett has been very good. His absence at NO was a huge factor.

Other than those things, you're not too far off. :-)

I think all 3 hit a receiver actually.

[Bossman641]

Maybe I'm jacking off too much, and thus am losing memory brain cells, but I can't recall a time this season where Shields allowed a TD pass other than the simi-trick play where Jeffry reversed direction at the snap and caught Shields off guard.

Decker got him in the Jets game.

[denverYooper]

I think all 3 hit a receiver actually.

Yep. 2 of them were right on. The last one that Adams got his hands on was off by quite a bit but looked like a miscommunication.

[Patler]

I think Shields also bit entirely on play action against Seattle, leaving his guy completely open, who then eluded a safety for the TD. I think that was Shields.

[Patler]

Maybe I'm jacking off too much, and thus am losing memory brain cells, but I can't recall a time this season where Shields allowed a TD pass other than the simi-trick play where Jeffry reversed direction at the snap and caught Shields off guard.

Probably time to start taking better care of those brain cells. I think we have Shields for at least 3 TDs in only 6 games played.

[KYPack]

[QUOTE=Tyrion Lannister;804907]I don't have McGinn's credentials, but I can be just as blunt as he is. Here's my position-by-position grades of the Packers after 8 games.

Quarterbacks (B): Rodgers played scared against Seattle, looked like Tolzien against Detriot and threw a bunch of picks vs. New Orleans...'12' also destroyed a bunch of hapless, tasteless teams...Flynn was terrible in garbage time.

QUOTE]

See the bold?

This is Tank.

1st screw-up, let's kick him out.

Again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

See the bold?

This is Tank.

1st screw-up, let's kick him out.

Again.

Who gives a shit who it is?

Are you rousing-up the Harper Valley PTA to expel a witch? (Sorry for mixed metaphor.) Why can't you just tolerate somebody you don't like? Implement an ignore button in your brain.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ps. What is a "Midseason night"? Is that a pun on "Midsummer night"? If so, I might give serious consideration to an expulsion.

[KYPack]

Who gives a shit who it is?

Are you rousing-up the Harper Valley PTA to expel a witch? (Sorry for mixed metaphor.) Why can't you just tolerate somebody you don't like? Implement an ignore button in your brain.

I give a shit.

I've seen him wreck forums & he's not gonna wreck this one.

He's been housebroken so far, but if he starts his shit (& schtick), he ain't getting away with it here.

Tolerate? fine, but everybody needs to know who they are talking to.

When he starts his crap, he needs to go.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What I hear you saying is that at this point in time, you accept Tyrion Lannister as a poster here at Rats. Excellent! Who knows what the future shall bring, but today is to enjoy.

Lets have the clicking of glasses, the lighting of peace water pipes, and of course a song of celebration.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d020hcWA_Wg

[Tyrion Lannister]

What I hear you saying is that at this point in time, you accept Tyrion Lannister as a poster here at Rats. Excellent! Who knows what the future shall bring, but today is to enjoy.

Lets have the clicking of glasses, the lighting of peace water pipes, and of course a song of celebration.


Coldplay, eh?

That Chris Martin, he sure is one lucky bastard.

Not only can he sing, he used to be married to Gwyneth Paltrow. Now dating the beautiful Jennifer Lawrence.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/122233/4064124-jennifer-lawrence-american-hustle.jpg

[Tyrion Lannister]

I think Shields also bit entirely on play action against Seattle, leaving his guy completely open, who then eluded a safety for the TD. I think that was Shields.

Correct me if I'm wrong (could be wrong play), but I think on that play the Gulls ran a read-option pass. Capers stated that Shields did not err as his assignment was to contain Wilson. Ha-Ha, I believe, was supposed to cover Sheilds' guy, but he got there a bit late and then proceed miss the tackle with one of his trademark "dive at the feet" tackle.

[KYPack]

What I hear you saying is that at this point in time, you accept Tyrion Lannister as a poster here at Rats. Excellent! Who knows what the future shall bring, but today is to enjoy.

Lets have the clicking of glasses, the lighting of peace water pipes, and of course a song of celebration.



Tank is banned. If TL is Tank, he's sneaking in here and should be banned too.

Coldplay?

Wimpy White boy music for wimpy White boys (& little girls).

Tank needs to listen to some man music like Son Seals.

He's on the job.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGqy96mFLe4

[red]

Jennifer lawrence is a hag

And WAY overrated as an actress imo

[Patler]

Correct me if I'm wrong (could be wrong play), but I think on that play the Gulls ran a read-option pass. Capers stated that Shields did not err as his assignment was to contain Wilson. Ha-Ha, I believe, was supposed to cover Sheilds' guy, but he got there a bit late and then proceed miss the tackle with one of his trademark "dive at the feet" tackle.

Could be. I don't remember Capers talking about it, but I don't remember very many of the excuses, I mean explanations Capers gives!

Didn't the Bears kind of go after Shields a bit, and complete a bunch of passes to his guy? I seem to remember McGinn or someone pointing that out.

I think Shields has been OK, but not close to pro bowl level, and certainly not a $10M man. Still his typical frail self physically, which, of course, is not his fault just a reality with him..

[Guiness]

Could be. I don't remember Capers talking about it, but I don't remember very many of the excuses, I mean explanations Capers gives!

Didn't the Bears kind of go after Shields a bit, and complete a bunch of passes to his guy? I seem to remember McGinn or someone pointing that out.

I think Shields has been OK, but not close to pro bowl level, and certainly not a $10M man. Still his typical frail self physically, which, of course, is not his fault just a reality with him..

He's a very good corner, but I was a little surprised at the money he got.

[3irty1]

Could be. I don't remember Capers talking about it, but I don't remember very many of the excuses, I mean explanations Capers gives!

Didn't the Bears kind of go after Shields a bit, and complete a bunch of passes to his guy? I seem to remember McGinn or someone pointing that out.

I think Shields has been OK, but not close to pro bowl level, and certainly not a $10M man. Still his typical frail self physically, which, of course, is not his fault just a reality with him..

I've never been much of a Shields fan. IMO he's really good at just one thing and it just so happens that the one thing he's good at is defending the go or 9 route. Its the route that gets WR's paid so it makes sense that it would get CB's paid as well. It seems like we bought high on Shields as his one skill is currently a premium. Pretty much the same reason I didn't want Byrd. With the tackling issues we've seen from Shields and House, I can't help but wonder if that 10 Mil would have been better spent on Vonte Davis. On 80% of plays, it seems to me like Davis is the better corner.

[Guiness]

I've never been much of a Shields fan. IMO he's really good at just one thing and it just so happens that the one thing he's good at is defending the go or 9 route. Its the route that gets WR's paid so it makes sense that it would get CB's paid as well. It seems like we bought high on Shields as his one skill is currently a premium. Pretty much the same reason I didn't want Byrd. With the tackling issues we've seen from Shields and House, I can't help but wonder if that 10 Mil would have been better spent on Vonte Davis. On 80% of plays, it seems to me like Davis is the better corner.

I agree that Davis is better on 80% of the plays - the thing is, Shields is better on the 20% that seem to matter. Patler brought up in the NO game day thread that most pro games hinge on a couple of pivotol plays that can change the outcome of the game. Well, a successful 9 route (or the drawing of a DPI penalty - same thing) is one of those plays.

[red]

Where the hell were you assholes a few months back when i was saying we had just overpaid for shields and got crucified by the rest of the forum?

[pbmax]

Where the hell were you assholes a few months back when i was saying we had just overpaid for shields and got crucified by the rest of the forum?

In our defense, we just thought you were drunk and ragey.

[red]

Well.....

Yeah

[Striker]

I give a shit.

I've seen him wreck forums & he's not gonna wreck this one.

He's been housebroken so far, but if he starts his shit (& schtick), he ain't getting away with it here.

Tolerate? fine, but everybody needs to know who they are talking to.

When he starts his crap, he needs to go.

^^^

Pretty much this.

He can only stay away from his normal act for so long. What's remarkable is that he returns to this same tired schtick year after year. Of all the trolls, he certainly is the most persistent. Though the fact that he hasn't "grown up" in the however many years he's been around and instead would rather be Tank is kind of sad.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Stinker, don't you have a forum to moderate? Oh, right. You have like 5 posters left at that lame site of yours. Say hi to Pt and Dave for me, will ya? :)

Ever heard of creative writing and humor? Humor is pretty much satire.

It's OK that you don't like my form of humor. Humor is in the eyes of the beholder, said a wise woman. I find Harlan, Nutz and Rand to be very funny. Heck, even Texaspackerbacker can be funny. If I ever want to satirize "the other side," I'm gonna consult with Tex. On the hand, I don't find Nutz's BFF, Skinbasket, and Scotty Campbell funny at all. But I don't go a-accusing them of trolling at every turn.

Bevis and Butthead - Not funny. King of the Hill - Funny. IMHO, of course.

Two humble reasons I kept coming back: 1. I miss my ole cyber friends; we go way back to them good ole JSO days. And 2, this is the only Packer forum in cyberspace that allows uncensored swearing. The word "FUCK" has got the be the greatest word in linguistics.

All in all, as Rodgers likes to spell: R-E-L-A-X. Relax. I am sure Madtown will send me back into exile once the season ends. If he doesn't? I promise I will self-ban if Hyde catches more picks than Josh Sitton this season. :)

[Tyrion Lannister]

Jennifer lawrence is a hag

And WAY overrated as an actress imo

Red, stop watching Hunger Games, and go watch something like Silver Linings Playbook. I do like Hungers games b/c of its revolutionary agenda, and Lawrence herself. Silver Linings, toward the end, it turns into a chick flick, but Jennifer Lawrence's acting in the film is splendid. That's why she won an Oscar for the role. :)

[Tyrion Lannister]

Could be. I don't remember Capers talking about it, but I don't remember very many of the excuses, I mean explanations Capers gives!

Didn't the Bears kind of go after Shields a bit, and complete a bunch of passes to his guy? I seem to remember McGinn or someone pointing that out.

I think Shields has been OK, but not close to pro bowl level, and certainly not a $10M man. Still his typical frail self physically, which, of course, is not his fault just a reality with him..

I think JSO posted Capers' explanation in one of their blogs the day after the game.

Shields is playing well and he's NOT overpaid, imho. In another thread, you said that House is worth 6M/yr to some teams. Shields is way better than House. Shields probably would start for most NFL teams. House, maybe 3 or 4 other teams.

[Patler]

I think JSO posted Capers' explanation in one of their blogs the day after the game.

Shields is playing well and he's NOT overpaid, imho. In another thread, you said that House is worth 6M/yr to some teams. Shields is way better than House. Shields probably would start for most NFL teams. House, maybe 3 or 4 other teams.

I don't believe I said House is worth $6M, I believe I said he might get $6M. There is a difference. I also said that I don't think the Packers will pay him that much. I normally talk about what a player might receive, not what he is worth, because I have no idea what any player is really worth. Because of circumstances on a particular team, a player might get a much larger contract from one team than what most teams would pay him. Does that make him "worth" the higher contract? In that thread, I think I also said that a team without a lot of large contracts and a need at CB could easily decide to give the $ to House to be their starter.

I think Shields is an example of that. GB really needed to keep him at the time. Hawk's last contract when negotiated was, too. Probably TJ Lang, too. With the state of the Packer's O-line at the time, they really needed to keep Lang, and since they had the ability to do it under the cap, they probably paid him more than most teams might have been willing to at that time. I think it can be argued that the same thing happened with Finley, although on a short contract the concept of a player's "worth" can be skewed. Flynn's contract with Seattle is another example. I know Clay Matthews is worth $2M/year, but is he worth more than $13M? Is he worth almost 10% more than any other LB in average salary just because GB paid him that much? I doubt it, although he might have had more takers at that amount than just GB.

Even if you believe Shields is "way better", the difference between $10M/yr and $6M/yr is quite a bit. Shields average salary is the 6th highest among CBs on this years' list. Something around a $6M average would be around 18th on this year's list, probably a few notches lower for next year, when negotiated. A team identifying House to be a starter for them should be willing to pay that, and I think he has a decent chance of finding that type of team.

[KYPack]

We all knew it was you, Tanky.

Why is it you are banned from all these Packer forums again?

Foolish comments meant only to disrupt or being a potty mouth?

Yeah, go over to Striker's forum, there at least a dozen guys over there that hate your guts.

Let's leave the question to that voice of reason, Pugger. She usually has the right idea when the rest of us get too full of testosterone. Wadda say Pug, ban Tanky or hang him?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I can't get worked up about Tank. I'm starting a committee to ban Pugger. Everybody needs a cause.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

[Pugger]

I can't get worked up about Tank. I'm starting a committee to ban Pugger. Everybody needs a cause.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ

Why me??? You got something against women like tank does?

[red]

Red, stop watching Hunger Games, and go watch something like Silver Linings Playbook. I do like Hungers games b/c of its revolutionary agenda, and Lawrence herself. Silver Linings, toward the end, it turns into a chick flick, but Jennifer Lawrence's acting in the film is splendid. That's why she won an Oscar for the role. :)

Saw it. Wasnt impressed with her in that either. She has no clue how to show emotion on screen

And looks wise. I give her a 5 maybe 6 out of ten

Even her leaked nude pics dont do anything for me

[3irty1]

Saw it. Wasnt impressed with her in that either. She has no clue how to show emotion on screen

And looks wise. I give her a 5 maybe 6 out of ten

Even her leaked nude pics dont do anything for me

I've got to agree. She's better at acting than she is in the looks department but that's not saying a ton. 5 or 6 is harsh but definitely nothing special. I thought her best work was American Hustle.

[wist43]

Stubby D+

He has Rodgers and that gets him over, but he's done nothing in terms of scheme and playcalling to improve the running game. Last year, sans Rodgers, he incorporated more power running and the run game improved dramatically; now with Rodgers back, he's back to his same old 3 zone plays.

In the passing game he is still very good, but predictable - and his playcalling is entirely predictable.

Capers D

He's not calling nearly as much 2-4, thank God!!! But he does far too many unsound things, and players are out of position far too often - you guys all like to blame the players, but more than anything - that's coaching. Don't think we can win another SB as long as Capers is our DC - 2010 was a fluke. A perfect storm of Capers playing with guys he inherited, and our opponents being flawed enough for us to get through. Unfortunately, solid, well-built teams stand in our way now, and we can't compete with them b/c of Capers and his philosophies.

Offense C

We're 19th in yds, 26th in TOP, 6th in scoring. It's all about Rodgers and the WR's. Our TE's are junk, our OL is below average. Lacy is a stud, but unless Stubby gets his head out of his ass and begins to incorporate more power running plays, Lacy won't be much of a factor.

It's all about Rodgers.

Defense D-

We're 26th in yds allowed, 23rd in scoring defense, and dead last in rushing defense at 153.5 yds/game - on a pace to give up more that 2400 yds rushing!!! WOW, just WOW!!!

I like a lot of the players, but we're simply too small and undermanned up front now. Capers is running more Elephant than anything else it looks like, but we really don't have the DL to run that full-time, just as we didn't have the LB's to run the 2-4 full-time. Capers simply can't help himself - he seems incapable of using the personnel he has to the best of their ability.

Our ILB's are complete junk. Missed tackles, bad angles, late to react in coverage... on and on. Hard to run a LB dominant scheme when your LB's suck. The back end has been cleaned up for the most part, but we're still soft, and poor tackling, while not an epidemic like years past, is still an issue.

The Packers have absolutely no identity on defense, and their preference to play as small as possible, concede the run, and inability to make adjustments spells disaster in the long run.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We should make the playoffs, but this team is still flawed in the same ways it has been in the past 3-4 years. They've made some changes on defense, but the same flawed philosophies, and flawed coaching stayed in place - and that is evident on the field. You can't give up 150+ yds/game on the ground and hold out any hope of winning a SB... not unless you get insanely lucky.

And Stubby's stubbornness with respect to his anemic running game is going to cost us against the big boys. He can get away his pitter-patter running game against weak sisters, but against the tough, disciplined defenses we will likely see in the playoffs - we're not going anywhere unless Stubby gets his head out of his ass and makes the necessary adjustments.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Bottom line is - I don't see us having the right formula to win a SB this year. We'll make the playoffs, and Rodgers gives us a fighting chance against anyone, but realistically we just don't have the right pieces in place. Philosophically, we're simply too flawed.

[George Cumby]

I think Wist has pretty much summed it up. I disagree with his point the horses aren't there I think they are (with the exception of IlBs) I just think the coaches aren't maximizing the players' potential/putting them in a place to succeed.

Either playoff success this year or heads should roll, which should have happened last off season.

Beating the same dead horses year in and year out is SO tiresome. It really makes discussions here not much fun.

[Striker]

We all knew it was you, Tanky.

Why is it you are banned from all these Packer forums again?

Foolish comments meant only to disrupt or being a potty mouth?

Yeah, go over to Striker's forum, there at least a dozen guys over there that hate your guts.

Let's leave the question to that voice of reason, Pugger. She usually has the right idea when the rest of us get too full of testosterone. Wadda say Pug, ban Tanky or hang him?

He wouldn't last a second over at BSS. Though Brauny was quite heavy handed dumping a lot of posters he didn't like (Cheezer et al), he was also good at keeping the likes of Tank at bay as well.

Though BSS will likely fold in the next few months and those remaining there will probably come over here.

It's cute that he justifies his trolling as satire still though. I guess it's too difficult to go against the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

And even though he says otherwise, I think the only reason he comes here is because it's the only place he isn't insta-banned.

[Bossman641]

Wist, I'm not trying to bait you or anything, just curious what NFC teams you like at this point? If I remember correctly, before the season started you were singing the praises of Rob Ryan and the Saints D. They haven't looked too great.

I am guessing you like SF and Seattle? Or do you think Az and Dallas are for real?

[George Cumby]

As soon as Tyrion showed up it was pretty obvious who he was, a Troll disguised as an Imp, a Clouseau-like disguise. I say let him stick around until he becomes disruptive. He generates discussion and livens the place up a little bit. Who knows, maybe he's grown up a bit, I doubt it, but one can hope :-)

[Striker]

Bottom line is - I don't see us having the right formula to win a SB this year. We'll make the playoffs, and Rodgers gives us a fighting chance against anyone, but realistically we just don't have the right pieces in place. Philosophically, we're simply too flawed.

This might be the one season where the Packers flaws don't "automatically" sink them. Every team in the NFC has some pretty huge flaws this season. While they beat the Packers and Broncos at home, the Seahawks are barely treading water. The 49ers are a mess. The Cardinals have a good chance to take that division. And they still all have to beat up on each other a bunch in the next month.

The NFC South seems to be a joke. The Saints look nigh invincible at home but on the road...good lord.

The East should come down to the Eagles and Cowboys...and I'd bet on the Cowboys (Foles is still crazy erratic).

And the North will come down the Lions and Packers...and the Lions are barely limping through.

I think the NFC will be Cowboys/Cardinals/Packers/Saints/Eagles/49ers. The Packers should get at least one or two wins in the playoffs if they get home games (where the defense has looked far better).

Of course, one injury to any of those teams could still change everything.

[Harlan Huckleby]

As soon as Tyrion showed up it was pretty obvious who he was, a Troll disguised as an Imp, a Clouseau-like disguise. I say let him stick around until he becomes disruptive. He generates discussion and livens the place up a little bit. Who knows, maybe he's grown up a bit, I doubt it, but one can hope :-)

More love for Tyrion.

I tell you, that Tyrion is a real people pleaser, a natural politician.

I have a very high tolerance for trolls, but I came from a bad family where conflict is considered normal. I probably don't belong with all these nice people either.

[red]

I think Wist has pretty much summed it up. I disagree with his point the horses aren't there I think they are (with the exception of IlBs) I just think the coaches aren't maximizing the players' potential/putting them in a place to succeed.

Either playoff success this year or heads should roll, which should have happened last off season.

Beating the same dead horses year in and year out is SO tiresome. It really makes discussions here not much fun.

I would say we're also missing thd right talent on the d-line. But thats more by design then anything else. The staff wanted to go smaller and quicker up there when what we really need is bigger stronger fatter. An no, i dont think raji would have made a difference

Also something is seriously wrong with the o line and i have no clue what it is. Sitton is suppose to be a bro bowler, lang is suppose to be a boarder line pro bowler. Bulage was a border line pro bowler before injury. Bahk is solid, and the rookie center is suppose to be very solid for a rookie. Add then all together and you have a line that can only pass block for 1.5 seconds when all the wrs are running routes requiring at least 3 seconds to get open. And they cant run block to save their life. Poor eddie and starks are pretty much getting all their yardage on their own after getting hit in the backfield or at the line. Theres no holes for them

Ive said for ahile now that this staff is just clinging to a-rod. We win because of him and only because of him. The rest of the staff is nothing special imo

[mraynrand]

Stinker, don't you have a forum to moderate? Oh, right. You have like 5 posters left at that lame site of yours. Say hi to Pt and Dave for me, will ya? :)

Ever heard of creative writing and humor? Humor is pretty much satire.

It's OK that you don't like my form of humor. Humor is in the eyes of the beholder, said a wise woman. I find Harlan, Nutz and Rand to be very funny. Heck, even Texaspackerbacker can be funny. If I ever want to satirize "the other side," I'm gonna consult with Tex. On the hand, I don't find Nutz's BFF, Skinbasket, and Scotty Campbell funny at all. But I don't go a-accusing them of trolling at every turn.

Bevis and Butthead - Not funny. King of the Hill - Funny. IMHO, of course.

Two humble reasons I kept coming back: 1. I miss my ole cyber friends; we go way back to them good ole JSO days. And 2, this is the only Packer forum in cyberspace that allows uncensored swearing. The word "FUCK" has got the be the greatest word in linguistics.

All in all, as Rodgers likes to spell: R-E-L-A-X. Relax. I am sure Madtown will send me back into exile once the season ends. If he doesn't? I promise I will self-ban if Hyde catches more picks than Josh Sitton this season. :)

I don't roll in here much anymore, but I can spot you like a cankerous pustule on a supermodel. Tank, you're a fabulous crazy poster and your worst enemies are posters who just can't help but put their tongues into that spot where the cold sore is (notice a theme?). I will check back in here the moment I need some counseling from Dr. John Holmes, M.D., Ph.D. That guy could 'therapy' Terrell Owens into the priesthood.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I think it needs to be said that this team is completely unlucky from an injury stand point lets not forget. How much better would this team be if Jermichael Finley, Nick Collins, and Desmond Bishop were all on the team?

Bishop's injury basically ended his career and Collins and Finley both had neck injuries. Imagine Collins and Bishop on defense, and Finely on offense. Completely different team. Thats not even considering the fact that our first round pick almost surely would have went on another player other than Clinton-Dix with Collins and Burnett at safety. Thats three really good players with two having probowl talent. Go find me one other team that has had as many career ending injuries to really good players as the packers have had in the last 5 years.

Thats not even considering other significant injuries along the way to Tramon Williams, Casey Hayward, Rodgers, Bulaga, and now Raji.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think it needs to be said that this team is completely unlucky from an injury stand point lets not forget. How much better would this team be if Jermichael Finley, Nick Collins, and Desmond Bishop were all on the team?

Bishop's injury basically ended his career and Collins and Finley both had neck injuries. Imagine Collins and Bishop on defense, and Finely on offense. Completely different team. Thats not even considering the fact that our first round pick almost surely would have went on another player other than Clinton-Dix with Collins and Burnett at safety. Thats three really good players with two having probowl talent. Go find me one other team that has had as many career ending injuries to really good players as the packers have had in the last 5 years.

Thats not even considering other significant injuries along the way to Tramon Williams, Casey Hayward, Rodgers, Bulaga, and now Raji.

This is true.

On the other hand, injuries are a fact of life across the NFL. Look at San Francisco (not only injuries but substance abuse), Redskins, Atlanta, even Minnesota losing Peterson.

But your point is well-taken. This team is certainly different without Finley and Collins. We lost two All-Pro types there.

[wist43]

Wist, I'm not trying to bait you or anything, just curious what NFC teams you like at this point? If I remember correctly, before the season started you were singing the praises of Rob Ryan and the Saints D. They haven't looked too great.

I am guessing you like SF and Seattle? Or do you think Az and Dallas are for real?

I think Rob Ryan is a hell of a coach... Capers isn't even in the same leage as Ryan. That said, I don't know what all of their problems have been down there. They damn sure shut us out in the 2nd half of the game last week - while Capers gave up 44 pts.

As for the NFC, I think Dallas is for real - as long as Romo is healthy and doesn't revert to his choke MO. Their defense is better than ours, that's for sure. Seattle will right the ship, and they at least have the potential to play lights out defense, whereas we don't have that potential at all; Arizona, I think we would beat them in Lambeau, in Zona it would be a toss up; SF has our number, and I suspect they'll right the ship enough to be able to whip up on us again if we meet in the playoffs; Philly is much like we are, although their defense is probably better than ours - Foles is a wildcard, he's certainly nowhere near to being in Rodgers class; and as of now - we're looking up at Detroit. Detroit has more weapons on offense, and they certainly have a much better defense - so we'll see.

The NFC is more flawed than anyone could have imagined, but I still see us lagging behind the top teams. The top teams all have at least competent defenses, and of course our defense is piloted by a guy who doesn't care about stopping the run. To Dunderdummy, it's either stop the run and get gashed big-time in the passing game, or play the pass and concede the run - stopping both isn't possible in dunderdummy's mind.

Philosophically, we're simply too weak and too flawed to win another SB with 1265's current makeup. I think Stubby has it in him to make the necessary adjustments - even if it takes him forever to get there; dunderdummy on the other hand is a hopeless case - he's such a huge liability, I don't see how we can overcome having him as our DC.

[Pugger]

This might be the one season where the Packers flaws don't "automatically" sink them. Every team in the NFC has some pretty huge flaws this season. While they beat the Packers and Broncos at home, the Seahawks are barely treading water. The 49ers are a mess. The Cardinals have a good chance to take that division. And they still all have to beat up on each other a bunch in the next month.

The NFC South seems to be a joke. The Saints look nigh invincible at home but on the road...good lord.

The East should come down to the Eagles and Cowboys...and I'd bet on the Cowboys (Foles is still crazy erratic).

And the North will come down the Lions and Packers...and the Lions are barely limping through.

I think the NFC will be Cowboys/Cardinals/Packers/Saints/Eagles/49ers. The Packers should get at least one or two wins in the playoffs if they get home games (where the defense has looked far better).

Of course, one injury to any of those teams could still change everything.

The Saints will probably now take the NFCS. Will the girls now wilt with Romo's back a mess? Evidently Romo suffered two transverse process fractures in last week's loss to the Washington Redskins. Romo did not practice all week and remained in a good amount of pain later in the week. That poor guy is gonna have back problems his entire life now. They are gonna start Weeden today against AZ. AZ might end up taking the west. We gotta root for whoever is playing the seachickens and SF just in case we need a WC spot. It would be wonderful if both of these teams missed the playoffs. Scoff if you like but ya never know...

[pbmax]

SI_DougFarrar ‏@SI_DougFarrar 24m24 minutes ago
Cardinals blitz 47 percent of the time over last two seasons and run sub-packages 74 percent this season. Have fun, Mr. Weeden.

The Cardinals this year and next year will be an interesting point of comparison to the Packers. Todd Bowles was, at one point, on the Packers radar, but I believe they were denied permission to interview him.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Saw it. Wasnt impressed with her in that either. She has no clue how to show emotion on screen

And looks wise. I give her a 5 maybe 6 out of ten

Even her leaked nude pics dont do anything for me

As the wise woman said, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. :)

She's a 10 to me, and I'm glad she finally got rid of that Southern accents.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I don't believe I said House is worth $6M, I believe I said he might get $6M. There is a difference. I also said that I don't think the Packers will pay him that much. I normally talk about what a player might receive, not what he is worth, because I have no idea what any player is really worth. Because of circumstances on a particular team, a player might get a much larger contract from one team than what most teams would pay him. Does that make him "worth" the higher contract? In that thread, I think I also said that a team without a lot of large contracts and a need at CB could easily decide to give the $ to House to be their starter.

I think Shields is an example of that. GB really needed to keep him at the time. Hawk's last contract when negotiated was, too. Probably TJ Lang, too. With the state of the Packer's O-line at the time, they really needed to keep Lang, and since they had the ability to do it under the cap, they probably paid him more than most teams might have been willing to at that time. I think it can be argued that the same thing happened with Finley, although on a short contract the concept of a player's "worth" can be skewed. Flynn's contract with Seattle is another example. I know Clay Matthews is worth $2M/year, but is he worth more than $13M? Is he worth almost 10% more than any other LB in average salary just because GB paid him that much? I doubt it, although he might have had more takers at that amount than just GB.

Even if you believe Shields is "way better", the difference between $10M/yr and $6M/yr is quite a bit. Shields average salary is the 6th highest among CBs on this years' list. Something around a $6M average would be around 18th on this year's list, probably a few notches lower for next year, when negotiated. A team identifying House to be a starter for them should be willing to pay that, and I think he has a decent chance of finding that type of team.

Arguing with you, Patler, is like arguing with a well-manicured lawyer. Therefore, I am gonna concede defeat to you this time. Just this time. :)

[Tyrion Lannister]

I don't roll in here much anymore, but I can spot you like a cankerous pustule on a supermodel. Tank, you're a fabulous crazy poster and your worst enemies are posters who just can't help but put their tongues into that spot where the cold sore is (notice a theme?). I will check back in here the moment I need some counseling from Dr. John Holmes, M.D., Ph.D. That guy could 'therapy' Terrell Owens into the priesthood.

What's up, Rand? Did you and Woody fought a trial by combat? The two of you don't post here much anymore.

[King Friday]

As for the NFC, I think Dallas is for real

I don't. Their defense was the worst EVER in NFL history last year. You don't solve that in one season.

5 of their last 7 games are on the road. Teams will stack the box like mad in the second half of the season and force the Cowboys to throw the ball. Romo will start making mistakes. They won't even win 10 games.

[wist43]

I don't. Their defense was the worst EVER in NFL history last year. You don't solve that in one season.

5 of their last 7 games are on the road. Teams will stack the box like mad in the second half of the season and force the Cowboys to throw the ball. Romo will start making mistakes. They won't even win 10 games.

They lost to Arizona today, but Weeden was brutal... their defense is better than ours, their offense probably about the same - much better running game and OL.

The NFC is wider open than anyone could have imagined, but I still think the heavyweights will round into from by the end of the seaons. Anyone with a good defense can handle us, b/c if our offense is middling, our defense can't hold the fort.

Still, the NFC is very interesting this year... anything can happen, and as I said, Rodgers does give us a punchers chance in every game - we'll see.

[Pugger]

They lost to Arizona today, but Weeden was brutal... their defense is better than ours, their offense probably about the same - much better running game and OL.

The NFC is wider open than anyone could have imagined, but I still think the heavyweights will round into from by the end of the seaons. Anyone with a good defense can handle us, b/c if our offense is middling, our defense can't hold the fort.

Still, the NFC is very interesting this year... anything can happen, and as I said, Rodgers does give us a punchers chance in every game - we'll see.

Do you truly believe our offense is just middling?

[red]

Do you truly believe our offense is just middling?

It was in the last game, an,d thats what wist is trying to say, and i agree with him.

If our offense isnt playing lights out, our defense isnt good enough (consistantly) to win us those games

Our defense is the anchor holding this team down, and it has been for awhile. Just why this defense is a giant rusting heap of scrap metal pulling us down into the abyss is still up for much debate

[pbmax]

I am amused by both the Rob Ryan love and the Packers' offense is middling theorizing.

Both opinions hinge on one game with a hobbled Rodgers. If that wasn't the case, the analysis is useless.

[wist43]

Do you truly believe our offense is just middling?

No, I think we're an upper tier offense, of course. Rodgers is elite, and our WR's are very good.

That said, we've seen good defenses shut us down; hence, the comment that IF we are middling along in a game - we're in trouble b/c our defense can't carry the day. Is this news to any of you??

[Pugger]

It was in the last game, an,d thats what wist is trying to say, and i agree with him.

If our offense isnt playing lights out, our defense isnt good enough (consistantly) to win us those games

Our defense is the anchor holding this team down, and it has been for awhile. Just why this defense is a giant rusting heap of scrap metal pulling us down into the abyss is still up for much debate

IOC

This has been a funny season so far. Who foresaw SF and the seachickens losing to the Rams? Or the Bolts getting shut out by the Dolphins? I was surprised to see NE manhandle the donkeys.

[denverYooper]

IOC

This has been a funny season so far. Who foresaw SF and the seachickens losing to the Rams? Or the Bolts getting shut out by the Dolphins? I was surprised to see NE manhandle the donkeys.

No team stayed undefeated for very long either, Pugger.

Parity is having its way.

[Fritz]

I am amused by both the Rob Ryan love and the Packers' offense is middling theorizing.

Both opinions hinge on one game with a hobbled Rodgers. If that wasn't the case, the analysis is useless.

However, I think the in-depth analysis that concludes "the Packer defense pretty much sucks" is spot-on.

Sure, they've had moments. But look at where that run defense is ranked. And how are they ranked now in points-per-game?

I just have no faith in this defense, whatsoever.

[Joemailman]

However, I think the in-depth analysis that concludes "the Packer defense pretty much sucks" is spot-on.

Sure, they've had moments. But look at where that run defense is ranked. And how are they ranked now in points-per-game?

I just have no faith in this defense, whatsoever.

I'm not sure what to make of this defense. To answer your question, they're now ranked 19th in PPG. 79 of the 191 points they've given up were in their 1st and 8th games. In between, they had a 6 game stretch where they gave up just 18.5 PPG. That would be 3rd in the NFL if you did it all year. So this team has shown signs of being able to play decent defense, but they've also had a couple of major lapses. Halfway through the season, I'm just not sure what to expect from this defense.

[pbmax]

However, I think the in-depth analysis that concludes "the Packer defense pretty much sucks" is spot-on.

Sure, they've had moments. But look at where that run defense is ranked. And how are they ranked now in points-per-game?

I just have no faith in this defense, whatsoever.

I agree. However, both the Cowboys and Saints have hired Rob Ryan to fix the same problem on each of their teams. It hasn't worked out yet.

I still think there is a talent mismatch on the D side of the ball, though they are trying to address it. ILB is still a gaping hole at times and the front three (or four) don't help the weaknesses of the middle 4 (or 2).

However, I still agree with Patler that under the new practice restraints and McCarthy's careful control of team regime, working completely hand in glove is more important than ever. When you had six weeks of camp with 4 weeks of 2 a day and a lot of trading, you could fix things on the fly. Now a days, esp with Thompson's go slow approach with FA, you need a year or more to get a fix in the pipeline.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure what to make of this defense. To answer your question, they're now ranked 19th in PPG. 79 of the 191 points they've given up were in their 1st and 8th games. In between, they had a 6 game stretch where they gave up just 18.5 PPG. That would be 3rd in the NFL if you did it all year. So this team has shown signs of being able to play decent defense, but they've also had a couple of major lapses. Halfway through the season, I'm just not sure what to expect from this defense.

Capers approach has proven vulnerable to a team that can really attack both on the ground and in the air. If they don't get a lead or turnovers, it can be a struggle choosing what to focus on.

[Joemailman]

Capers approach has proven vulnerable to a team that can really attack both on the ground and in the air. If they don't get a lead or turnovers, it can be a struggle choosing what to focus on.

All that may be true, but I would argue that could be said of the vast majority of teams in the NFL. The NFL has made it exceedingly difficult for teams to consistently play good defense. Baltimore was looking good, but they've given up 70 in the last 2 weeks. Denver got torched by New England yesterday. Indy gave up 51 to Pittsburgh a week after shutting out Cincinnati. The Packers defense had 2 bad games in 2 of the toughest places to play in the NFL. I think the jury is still out on whether this is one of the worst defenses in the NFL, or just another mediocre one.

[pbmax]

Wilde on Packers reports of their own run defense.

I think the summary of this article should be: We have no idea how to fix it.

http://espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=17231&is_corp=1

[Tyrion Lannister]

Wilde on Packers reports of their own run defense.

I think the summary of this article should be: We have no idea how to fix it.

http://espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=17231&is_corp=1

Despite not putting up pretty sack numbers, the Claymaker has been the Pack's best run defender thus far, imho.

[pbmax]

Despite not putting up pretty sack numbers, the Claymaker has been the Pack's best run defender thus far, imho.

Then you haven't seen him getting murdering in overpursuit on misdirection. He also has trouble making reads when he is inside in that 4-3 Elephant front.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Then you haven't seen him getting murdering in overpursuit on misdirection. He also has trouble making reads when he is inside in that 4-3 Elephant front.

With the DTs not being able to create penetration in the middle of the field and the ILBers not being able to shed blocks worth a fuck, the Claymaker had to be overaggressive.

Claymaker is second on the team in tackle for loss. He's the Pack's best run defender on an awful run defense.

[pbmax]

With the DTs not being able to create penetration in the middle of the field and the ILBers not being able to shed blocks worth a fuck, the Claymaker had to be overaggressive.

Claymaker is second on the team in tackle for loss. He's the Pack's best run defender on an awful run defense.

Being best on a terrible run D is faint praise. You don't need D line penetration when you are the Will in a 4-3 Under or the backside contain in a 3-4/2-4. His greatest strength is his initial burst and teams use that against him. And have been since the San Fran playoff game in San Fran.

[Patler]

With the DTs not being able to create penetration in the middle of the field and the ILBers not being able to shed blocks worth a fuck, the Claymaker had to be overaggressive.


That is one of the great fallacies in all team sports. Rarely is it advantageous for a player to weaken his performance of his responsibilities in an effort to make up for the deficiencies of players at other positions.