Official Packers vs. Vikings II Discussion Thread

[Joemailman]

This has the potential to be a trap game for the Packers:

Packers are coming off a big win over the Eagles
It's the week before a big game with the Patriots
The Packers have already handily beaten the Vikings this year

On the other hand, the Vikings just aren't very good. All of their wins are against teams with losing records. There is no logical reason the Vikings should be able to beat the Packers this week.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is no logical reason the Vikings should be able to beat the Packers this week.
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/matt_flynn_01012012.jpg

[The Shadow]

The Vikings looked pretty inept against the Bears. All Bridgewater was throwing were ineffective screens.

[Joemailman]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/matt_flynn_01012012.jpg

The Packers have scored 211 points in the 5 games that Flynn has played in.

[Tyrion Lannister]

The Child Abuser could be reinstated trm.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Packers have scored 211 points in the 5 games that Flynn has played in.
Also that Sherrod played in.

[ThunderDan]

Also that Sherrod played in.

No, Sherrod is gone now. He wasn't on the roster yesterday.

[mission]

I think the Pack is really riding high setting up for a letdown, but they end up blowing out the Vikings. They're just that good with a rejuvenated defense.

[King Friday]

The Bears...THE BEARS...just beat the Vikings. The only thing that could potentially hamper Green Bay in this one is the weather...and even that won't be near enough to cause heartburn against the Vikings. The Packers have the chance to move up into the #2 spot in the conference with Detroit having to travel to NE. You have to expect a heavy contingent of Packer fans will make the trip over to MN...because Vikings fans will happily unload their tickets looking at the forecast.

Rarely have the Packers experienced a letdown against a division opponent under McCarthy. That is one area he established as a focus from day one, and he's been extremely effective against division foes.

[hoosier]

Vikings have a good pass rush. If they are fired up (which they usually are at home against GB) then I think this is one of those proverbial games where you throw out their records and all that. It will be a close game.

[Pugger]

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/matt_flynn_01012012.jpg

:lol: I hear ya.

But seriously the only way we lose is if we turn the ball over a few times resulting it pick sixes or a short field for the queenies.

[pbmax]

Packers ranked number 2 in Football Outsiders DVOA Power Rankings. Vikes are 26th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2014/week-11-dvoa-ratings

Pack O is #1, D is #10, ST slips to #16. The Arizona Cardinals at 9-1 and ranked 15th.

[Tony Oday]

Weather is going to be nice. Bridgewater is terrible. As long as our O-line holds we win this easy.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Pack won't score in the 50s but should coast to a win.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Weather is going to be nice. Bridgewater is terrible. As long as our O-line holds we win this easy.

Looks like rain on Sunday.

[pbmax]

Packers, Vikings played some classics at the 'Met' (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-vikings-played-some-classics-at-the-met-b99385726z1-283168591.html#packers)

5. VIKINGS 3, PACKERS 0
Nov. 14, 1971

4. PACKERS 33, VIKINGS 7
Oct. 22, 1961

3. VIKINGS 14, PACKERS 10
Nov. 10, 1968

2. PACKERS 23, VIKINGS 7
December 10, 1972

1. PACKERS 35, VIKINGS 23
Nov. 29, 1981

[George Cumby]

I miss Bud Grant and that other crusty fucker who coached them on the 80's.

[Zool]

I miss Bud Grant and that other crusty fucker who coached them on the 80's.

Jerry Burns?

[pbmax]

Tommy Kramer's AA sponsor?


Unofficial practice injury report: Sitton and Lang walk through only, Bostick(hip), Perry and Bush DNP. Elliot returns.

[Joemailman]

I miss Bud Grant and that other crusty fucker who coached them on the 80's.


Jerry Burns?

Les Steckel?

[Zool]

Les Steckel?

And his wife Tess?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Les Steckel?

More taste!

[pittstang5]

Tommy Kramer's AA sponsor?


Unofficial practice injury report: Sitton and Lang walk through only, Bostick(hip), Perry and Bush DNP. Elliot returns.

Not surprised. Perry comes on.....Perry gets hurt. Sounds like a song.

[Fritz]

The guy can't stand success, apparently. Wonder what the injury is, exactly.

[KYPack]

Jerry Burns?

Burnsy.

Packer asst under Vince.

A man whose picture made you think about stopping drinking.

[vince]

Burnsy.

Packer asst under Vince.

A man whose picture made you think about stopping drinking.

LOL. That guy had a tough run. Don't play this one at the office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNcBFZ26lcI

[Guiness]

LOL. That guy had a tough run. Don't play this one at the office.

"We had a trap play called and his fucking comes off" That's just awesome!

Great press conference before the disnification of the NFL! Best part is, it was after a win!

[George Cumby]

Good old JB. Pure awesome.

[smuggler]

I'm sweating sympathies after watching that vid. Is Burns still around?

Yep. Still kickin'! Ripe old age of 86 and living in Michigan!

[Freak Out]

Holy shit I had forgotten about that guy.

[Tyrion Lannister]

The Vikings claimed RB Ben Tate off waiver from the Browns.

LeGarrett Blount is available if the Packers wanna counter. I realize that Thompson will get his dog killed if he signs Blount, but I wouldn't mind having the guy to run McCarthy's awful fullback dive. Ain't gonna happen, so haters, keep calm and relax. 3 reasons: 1, the Packers are not desperate at RB (Feed DuJuan the rock!); 2, Thompson loves his dog too much; and 3, Anyone who quits Mike Tomlin, the friendliest players' coach in the league, probably is not a team player, and therefore not "Packer people."

Still, lemme post this to keep folks humble. Some are starting to get cocky over the Pack's last two wins. Burnett, Williams, Hawk, Sheilds, WTF?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzESUFOt2Gg

[mraynrand]

never saw that Burns tape before. Holy crap. Love the mention of Bob Schnelker - Hey Bob, run the reverse!

[mraynrand]

Some are starting to get cocky over the Pack's last two wins.

QFT. It's like they shut down Darren Charles or something!

[hoosier]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNcBFZ26lcI

Life imitates art.

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/bnb3_1091484265.jpg

[George Cumby]

I'm sweating sympathies after watching that vid. Is Burns still around?

Yep. Still kickin'! Ripe old age of 86 and living in Michigan!

Fuck. He looked 86 in that video.

[vince]

Fuck. He looked 86 in that video.
Maybe but don't fuckin blame Schnelker for it. Fuck. He can't make the players not fuckin suck ass.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p9R4QHV8CTU/TkT0h9ftC_I/AAAAAAAAASM/o4pPOawHpMA/s1600/86Jerry%2BBurns.jpg

[pbmax]

Had he just cursed them out and left the podium it would be the greatest coach rant ever. The longer he stuck around, the more he just seemed wounded and defeated.

[Tyrion Lannister]

QFT. It's like they shut down Darren Charles or something!

Oh well, looks like Blount will returning to Lambeau Field after all...as a Patriot. Fuck him.

The 6'6" Darren Charles was not easy to shut down in high school. He was named Mr. Football in Wisconsin as a senior. Suffice it to say, it was David vs Goliath all over again when some short, whitish corner from an Appleton public school shut down Darren Charles.

That being said, we now return to your regularly scheduled programming about old Viking coaches. :)

[pbmax]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 16m16 minutes ago
#Packers practice: T.J. Lang, Josh Sitton, Clay Matthews practicing. Bostick, Perry, Bush remain out.

Bob McGinn ‏@BobMcGinn 18m18 minutes ago
Two TEs, former Badger Travis Beckum and former Mizzou Tiger Michael Egnew, worked out for #Packers Tuesday.

[hoosier]

Perry has a shoulder. If he can't go, Neal would be the logical replacement. Or does CMIII go back to the outside for a week? I am guessing Neal, but doesn't that raise concerns about ability to set edge on the left?

[Guiness]

Had he just cursed them out and left the podium it would be the greatest coach rant ever. The longer he stuck around, the more he just seemed wounded and defeated.

I dunno, I think he redeemed himself with the parting comment. Any response to that would've been railing against the wind.

[Guiness]

Perry has a shoulder. If he can't go, Neal would be the logical replacement. Or does CMIII go back to the outside for a week? I am guessing Neal, but doesn't that raise concerns about ability to set edge on the left?

Neale has been getting reps these past few weeks, where has he been playing? LOLB, with Perry and Mathews rotating at ROLB?

[Freak Out]

WTF?
http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2014/11/20/green-bay-packers-clay-matthews-pitch-perfect-2

[Pugger]

Weather is going to be nice. Bridgewater is terrible. As long as our O-line holds we win this easy.

I heard there is a good chance it will rain so it could be a sloppy field.

[Harlan Huckleby]

vikings have to play in Detroit next Thursday. Two AP style whuppins in 4 days.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I hope the Packer players and coaches were watching Thursday Night Football. The Raiders outplay the Chiefs and beat them in the final minute!

[Carolina_Packer]

I hope the Packer players and coaches were watching Thursday Night Football. The Raiders outplay the Chiefs and beat them in the final minute!

Try and figure out the NFL. The Chefs start out 0-2, including an inexplicable home loss to the Titanics. Now they lose to the winless Raiders. In between their two head-scratching losses to the Titans (first week) and Rrrraiders (this week) they have soundly beaten Miami (away), New England (home), San Diego (away), killed St. Louis and got by NYJ (home), Buffalo (road) and Seattle (home). Sitting in the cat bird seat at 7-3 and boom, they go down.

Oakland gave Seattle more of a game than the Packers did in Seattle. Perhaps Oakland is not as bad as their record would indicate. If they can find some balance on offense and the defense can keep stopping people, they might win another game. I like Carr, I think he's gonna be a good one.

[George Cumby]

I like Carr, I think he's gonna be a good one.

Agreed. The game doesn't look too big for him.

[vince]

Oakland gave Seattle more of a game than the Packers did in Seattle. Perhaps Oakland is not as bad as their record would indicate. If they can find some balance on offense and the defense can keep stopping people, they might win another game. I like Carr, I think he's gonna be a good one.It seems like Woodson believes it, and he likes Carr too. He added a nice little stat to his Hall of Fame resume tonight - Only player in history with 50 (He has 58) interceptions and 20 sacks.

[Pugger]

I hope the Packer players and coaches were watching Thursday Night Football. The Raiders outplay the Chiefs and beat them in the final minute!

Me too. If the guys go into this game in Minneapolis with NE on their minds they may suffer the same fate as KC did tonight.

[smuggler]

Perhaps Oakland is not as bad as their record would indicate.

This. I think they got roughed up once by the Broncos, but have otherwise been at least superficially competitive in every game. Could be a good dark horse wildcard candidate in 2015, honestly.

[KYPack]

It seems like Woodson believes it, and he likes Carr too. He added a nice little stat to his Hall of Fame resume tonight - Only player in history with 50 (He has 58) interceptions and 20 sacks.

Wood is unreal.

He still has the ability of a young kid.

I was thinking last night that they should put his HOF plaque on his jersey.

[KYPack]

vikings have to play in Detroit next Thursday. Two AP style whuppins in 4 days.

Now that's when the Queens need to turn on their "trap game" mojo.

They just might do it.

This Lion bunch is the same group that pulled the el foldo at the end of last season.

[pbmax]

Try and figure out the NFL. The Chefs start out 0-2, including an inexplicable home loss to the Titanics. Now they lose to the winless Raiders. In between their two head-scratching losses to the Titans (first week) and Rrrraiders (this week) they have soundly beaten Miami (away), New England (home), San Diego (away), killed St. Louis and got by NYJ (home), Buffalo (road) and Seattle (home). Sitting in the cat bird seat at 7-3 and boom, they go down.

Oakland gave Seattle more of a game than the Packers did in Seattle. Perhaps Oakland is not as bad as their record would indicate. If they can find some balance on offense and the defense can keep stopping people, they might win another game. I like Carr, I think he's gonna be a good one.

There is some logic here. San Diego is not as good as they looked early. Miami started out struggling. And New England finally got their act together after the Chiefs loss. They have been a touch fortunate with the schedule.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Actually Oakland is pretty bad. I watched the entire game. They have mediocre players at all the skill positions. Carr is a decent QB, but nothing special. Very inaccurate all night. KC had at least 3 or 4 easy interceptions dropped. The weather was the equalizer. The weather and KC being flat. Raiders special teams almost let the Chiefs back in the game. Their most glaring weakness is coaching. It was like a team out of control. They must have been penalized 1000 yards.

On one play in the 4th qtr with KC driving for a tying score, Oakland had two DPI penalties and defensive hands to the face...on the same play. Typical Woodson DPI was called a couple times. Woodson made some great plays (sacks, tackles for loss) but he also let Charles run away from him for a TD. He's slowing down.

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.

Very, very undisciplined team. I think they won on pure emotion. They were high as a kite at home; the Chiefs were flat as a pancake.

You can't call it in and expect success in the NFL. No matter who you are or who you're playing, if... you don't come to play and the other team does, you're toast. Add some bad weather as an equalizer and...disaster.

[pbmax]

Tony Sparano has never struck me as a long term solution as a coach.

[George Cumby]

Actually Oakland is pretty bad. I watched the entire game. They have mediocre players at all the skill positions. Carr is a decent QB, but nothing special. Very inaccurate all night. KC had at least 3 or 4 easy interceptions dropped. The weather was the equalizer. The weather and KC being flat. Raiders special teams almost let the Chiefs back in the game. Their most glaring weakness is coaching. It was like a team out of control. They must have been penalized 1000 yards.

On one play in the 4th qtr with KC driving for a tying score, Oakland had two DPI penalties and defensive hands to the face...on the same play. Typical Woodson DPI was called a couple times. Woodson made some great plays (sacks, tackles for loss) but he also let Charles run away from him for a TD. He's slowing down.

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.

Very, very undisciplined team. I think they won on pure emotion. They were high as a kite at home; the Chiefs were flat as a pancake.

You can't call it in and expect success in the NFL. No matter who you are or who you're playing, if... you don't come to play and the other team does, you're toast. Add some bad weather as an equalizer and...disaster.

M3 needs to read your post to the team.

[Guiness]

Actually Oakland is pretty bad. I watched the entire game. They have mediocre players at all the skill positions. Carr is a decent QB, but nothing special. Very inaccurate all night. KC had at least 3 or 4 easy interceptions dropped. The weather was the equalizer. The weather and KC being flat. Raiders special teams almost let the Chiefs back in the game. Their most glaring weakness is coaching. It was like a team out of control. They must have been penalized 1000 yards.

On one play in the 4th qtr with KC driving for a tying score, Oakland had two DPI penalties and defensive hands to the face...on the same play. Typical Woodson DPI was called a couple times. Woodson made some great plays (sacks, tackles for loss) but he also let Charles run away from him for a TD. He's slowing down.

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.

Very, very undisciplined team. I think they won on pure emotion. They were high as a kite at home; the Chiefs were flat as a pancake.

You can't call it in and expect success in the NFL. No matter who you are or who you're playing, if... you don't come to play and the other team does, you're toast. Add some bad weather as an equalizer and...disaster.

I watched a chunk of the 4th quarter, and you're spot on. Oakland was up by 17 I think at one point, and I thought they were going to give it away. The sack celebration while the offense was lining up was hilarious! A couple of DL with their back turned to the ball, dancing away. There was a bit of time on the clock, if KC gets gifted a 1st down there it could've resulted in the game going the other way.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/Raiders-Chiefs-crazy-offside-fourth.jpg

[Maxie the Taxi]

Most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a game...Even beats the Viking guy who ran the wrong way with a fumble recovery to score a touchback!

[KYPack]

Actually Oakland is pretty bad. I watched the entire game. They have mediocre players at all the skill positions. Carr is a decent QB, but nothing special. Very inaccurate all night. KC had at least 3 or 4 easy interceptions dropped. The weather was the equalizer. The weather and KC being flat. Raiders special teams almost let the Chiefs back in the game. Their most glaring weakness is coaching. It was like a team out of control. They must have been penalized 1000 yards.

On one play in the 4th qtr with KC driving for a tying score, Oakland had two DPI penalties and defensive hands to the face...on the same play. Typical Woodson DPI was called a couple times. Woodson made some great plays (sacks, tackles for loss) but he also let Charles run away from him for a TD. He's slowing down.

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.

Very, very undisciplined team. I think they won on pure emotion. They were high as a kite at home; the Chiefs were flat as a pancake.

You can't call it in and expect success in the NFL. No matter who you are or who you're playing, if... you don't come to play and the other team does, you're toast. Add some bad weather as an equalizer and...disaster.

Justin Tuck called the TO on that bizarre celebration play. Tuck and Wood were the only two Raiders paying any attention to what was going on. The disgusted look on Tuck's face was priceless.

[vince]

Yeah the Raiders are far from a good team but their D isn't too bad. They got the vets hanging on and a bunch of young guys - some of whom will probably learn that discipline and develop to become good players. I agree with PB that Sparano wouldn't be my guy (though if he'd be willing to step back into the DC position I think he's good there.) If an offensive/QB guru like Holmgren would be looking to get back into coaching, I think it could be a good landing spot where you have a young QB with a lot of tools but needs an Obi Wan to show him the way - and you're likely looking at drafting very near the top of the draft each round for the next couple years, and assuming Reggie can hang on with you, you have a football guy you can work with to build an offense who has now pretty much completed all the roster cleansing from the brutal cap position he inherited... With that football tradition I think it could be a good opportunity for someone. Maybe Holmgren's time has passed but I'd be watching more Raider games next year and thinking more bullish about them if something like that happened this offseason.

Also, regarding Woodson... He's slowed down and doesn't cover in space like he used to but he's still effective in crowds and around the line of scrimmage. They're starting to move him up a lot more and getting him around the line of scrimmage and his football instincts and experience are beginning to show more. I didn't see a lot of the game last night but he made some plays around and behind the line of scrimmage ala the old Woodson. I think he's got another year in him after this one yet to help usher the transition before he rides off into the sunset and directly to the Packer, Raider (if they have one) and Pro Football Halls of Fame. College too but he may already be in that one for all I know.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The most bizarre play of the evening was in the last 40 seconds. KC was driving down for a winning TD. It was 3rd and 15 I believe and Alex Smith was sacked. The whole KC offense got up quickly to snap the ball again, but 3 or 4 Raiders were 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage celebrating. Two Raiders were actually doing some kind of end zone celebration dance. Apparently, they had lost track of the downs. If not for a Raider being smart and calling a TO, KC might have got the 1st down and scored.
I don't even think they thought it was 4th down, that is too much credit. I suspect they were excited and stopped thinking about anything at all. If they had looked around, they would have noticed all the other players were lining up for a play. I'm all in favor of celebrations - if they are short and sweet. But running 20 yards down field to create a stage is tedious.

[smuggler]

They have some good building blocks on defense. Justin Ellis. Sio Moore. Khalil Mack. DJ Hayden.Tyvon Branch (IR). On offense, things don't look as good. But Carr looks like he could develop and that Latavius Murray kid looks pretty promising...

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2-8C6ZCcAE5nrI.png


FiveThirtyEight ‏@FiveThirtyEight 4h4 hours ago
As of last Sunday, Green Bay held the NFL’s best historical margin of victory by 358 points. http://53eig.ht/1xXvgB6

[smuggler]

I wonder who that is down at -3800 pts. They have a long history... have to think it's the Browns, yeah?

[King Friday]

I'm guessing the Cardinals...they've been around forever and have been losers almost the entire time.

This graph really shows how horrific the Packers were in the years immediately before Lombardi. To drop 1000 points in differential in just over 10 years...playing far fewer games per season than the modern era. YUCK! Then Lombardi comes in and completely reverses that in less than a decade.

It appears the Cowboys tried to overtake the Bears in the 70s...fell just short. Then I'm guessing the Niners took the next shot with back-to-back HOF QBs...again just short. It took the next pair of back to back HOF QBs in Green Bay to finally topple those damn Bears.

[Teamcheez1]

Perry, D Jones, Elliot, and Bush all questionable for the game this week. We are one groin or hamstring away from having no depth on defense.

[Guiness]

I'm guessing the Cardinals...they've been around forever and have been losers almost the entire time.

Ya, the sadsack, snakebitten Browns we all know and love were not always the case. They were winning franchise for a lot of years, especially the 40's and 50's.

What about the Lions? Also long lived, also mostly futility.

[Patler]

What about the Lions? Also long lived, also mostly futility.

That's my guess. The line seems to track the ups and downs I recall for the Lions record since the 1960's.

[King Friday]

That's my guess. The line seems to track the ups and downs I recall for the Lions record since the 1960's.

Not sure...but wouldn't the Lions have looked a little more impressive than that bottom line shows during the Barry Sanders era? Even more recently they have been a solid team and I would think should show a more sizeable uptick in recent years. The Lions may be the second lowest line on the graph during the past 2 decades or so.

The bottom line plummets in both the 90s and 00s...which IMO represents a Cardinals team that first had to face the epic Cowboys teams of the 90s and then got moved over into the NFC West and had to face the ridiculous Rams teams of the early 00s.

[vince]

Cardinals (since 1920) - 22,310 scored 26,086 allowed -3,776 differential
Lions (1930) - 22,612 scored 23,463 allowed -851
Browns (1946) - 19,911 scored 18,659 allowed +1,252

http://www.pro-football-reference.com

[pbmax]

Here is the chart so you can see the team by putting the cursor over it (have to go to website as its interactive):


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/skeptical-football-patriots-vs-cardinals-and-an-interactive-history-of-the-nfl/

Worst three are:

30. Bucs
31. Falcons
32. Cardinals

Historically, Saints were 3rd worst soon after their arrival but Jim Mora, little bit of Haslett/McCarthy and mostly Brees/Peyton have lifted them in the last 20 years.

Browns were challenging Bears/Packers/Giants through the 90s, but Browns 2.0 is pulling a reverse Walsh 49ers on this stat. They are declining at an impressive rate.

[pbmax]

Good lord Datone. Tape that ankle up before practice.

On Thursday, defensive end Datone Jones reinjured the ankle that sidelined him for Games 6-8. He's questionable, as are linebackers Nick Perry (shoulder) and Jayrone Elliott (hamstring) and cornerback Jarrett Bush (groin).

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/tricky-field-conditions-hampered-eagles-in-loss-to-packers-b99395123z1-283564311.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

Here is the chart so you can see the team by putting the cursor over it (have to go to website as its interactive):


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/skeptical-football-patriots-vs-cardinals-and-an-interactive-history-of-the-nfl/

I'm not sure there is so much to learn there. The Packers and Bears are way ahead of everybody because they were really good before modern football. Why would you even compare their graphs with expansion teams? Is there anything interesting to learn in weighting margin of victory equally across a very long time frame, then adding the numbers up?

That graph suggests the Steelers are a mediocre franchise.

A graph of yearly jersey sales would tell you more.

[pbmax]

I'm not sure there is so much to learn there. The Packers and Bears are way ahead of everybody because they were really good before modern football. Why would you even compare their graphs with expansion teams? Is there anything interesting to learn in weighting margin of victory equally across a very long time frame, then adding the numbers up?

That graph suggests the Steelers are a mediocre franchise.

A graph of yearly jersey sales would tell you more.

I agree expansion makes the graph harder, though not impossible, to interpret because of expansion. But comparing the relative success of the Cowboys and Vikings to the Saints and Falcons struggles is right there. All the AFL totals are in there so the Patriots, Oilers and Chargers, etc. can be compared.

But it gives you a very good sense of who has sustained success (Bears and Packers) who has been mediocre for a LONG time (Bears then Giants-even with 5 Super Bowl wins between them) and the expansion teams who rise above all others, the Browns, and the single biggest era jump in the chart, Walsh's 49ers. Unless you want to give full credence to the AAFC, in which case I think the Browns increased their overall margin nearly by nearly 3,000 points in slightly less time than Walsh and the 49ers did.

[Maxie the Taxi]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2-8C6ZCcAE5nrI.png

Is the vertical axis on the left the North coast of the Gulf of Mexico?

If so, it looks like the hurricane tracks are zeroed in on my house. I think I'm going to evacuate immediately!

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3m3 minutes ago
The Packers added CB Davon House (illness) to the injury report. He's still probable to play against #Vikings

[Fritz]

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 3m3 minutes ago
The Packers added CB Davon House (illness) to the injury report. He's still probable to play against #Vikings

Weird, these added injury reports. Does this mean, perhaps, that some guys have been banged up for awhile, and the team sees this as an opportunity to rest some guys because of the level of competition?

[pbmax]

Weird, these added injury reports. Does this mean, perhaps, that some guys have been banged up for awhile, and the team sees this as an opportunity to rest some guys because of the level of competition?

Maybe. Or he could just have the flu.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think I'm going to evacuate immediately!

Loss of bowel control must be one of the worst parts about aging.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But it gives you a very good sense of who has sustained success (Bears and Packers) who has been mediocre for a LONG time (Bears then Giants-even with 5 Super Bowl wins between them) and the expansion teams who rise above all others, the Browns, and the single biggest era jump in the chart, Walsh's 49ers. Unless you want to give full credence to the AAFC, in which case I think the Browns increased their overall margin nearly by nearly 3,000 points in slightly less time than Walsh and the 49ers did.

I'm afraid those graphs have got me very cranky indeed. I'm all for integration, but this is ridiculous. It is NOT useful for looking at eras. Slopes at left end of plot are less significant than changes at right. A more interesting graph would just show margin of victory, with maybe a smoothing filter (moving average) to show era trends clearer.

Very disturbing. I'm inconsolable - don't talk to me about this again.

[smuggler]

it looks as if Floyd and Khalil are both questionable for the game on Sunday. I expect they'll probably try to trot them both out there but both missed practice yesterday with knees. Not a good sign for Minny.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Loss of bowel control must be one of the worst parts about aging.

Without a doubt. I have evacuation routes mapped out from all rooms in my house to the nearest bathroom.

[pbmax]

I'm afraid those graphs have got me very cranky indeed. I'm all for integration, but this is ridiculous. It is NOT useful for looking at eras. Slopes at left end of plot are less significant than changes at right. A more interesting graph would just show margin of victory, with maybe a smoothing filter (moving average) to show era trends clearer.

Very disturbing. I'm inconsolable - don't talk to me about this again.

This graph is exactly margin of victory.

[smuggler]

What does the graph have to do with the Purple Queens?

[pbmax]

What does the graph have to do with the Purple Queens?

Packers are great, Vikings are better than the Saints and Falcons over the long haul.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This graph is exactly margin of victory.

Well, it is supposed to be "cumulative regular-season point differential since 1920"
I read that to be a running total of all game margins since 1920. Perhaps I misunderstand, but that's what it says.

edit: I just looked again: yes, that's exactly what it is, and it's a dumb ass graph.
I was making a calculus joke with "integration"
Now I'm upset all over again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Without a doubt. I have evacuation routes mapped out from all rooms in my house to the nearest bathroom.

I was thinking of that picturesque phrase, "I evacuated my bowels."

[pbmax]

Well, it is supposed to be "cumulative regular-season point differential since 1920"
I read that to be a running total of all game margins since 1920. Perhaps I misunderstand, but that's what it says.

That means the accumulated margin of victory (if you are willing to live with negative margin of victory for losses).

If you went with an average for each team, that would exacerbate the problems with different eras.

To both look at the historical record and consider eras, you would need a differential between a teams yearly margin of victory and total scoring or standard deviation.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That means the accumulated margin of victory (if you are willing to live with negative margin of victory for losses).
yes, not the margin of victory.


To both look at the historical record and consider eras, you would need a differential between a teams yearly margin of victory and total scoring or standard deviation.
Huh? No, just a plot of margin of victory totaled for each year and plotted by year. Good enough.

I had the idea of applying a smoothing filter just to see era trends easier, but not necessary. And maybe bad idea.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I was thinking of that picturesque phrase, "I evacuated my bowels."

So was I.

[hoosier]

The two threads within the thread collide: House was out with an illness. It may have been a GI bug and not the flu.

[smuggler]

Harlan, are you trying to say that the graph is flawed because it compares seasons with 10, 12, and 14 games alongside seasons with 16? You may have a point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan, are you trying to say that the graph is flawed because it compares seasons with 10, 12, and 14 games alongside seasons with 16? You may have a point.

I'm saying the graph is strange and hard to interpret because it is not giving year-by-year information at all. What it shows in any year is a measure of the total historical performance up until that time. To the extent that there is anything interesting, it would just be the final, total value for each team. It tells you that Packers and Bears have had the most total success. But since they've been around so long compared to other franchises, it doesn't even say they have been particularly good teams.

(They did integration of a meaningful plot of data. Do first derivative to get back, get back, get back to where you once belonged.)

The graph is stupid. By implication pbmax is stupid. I'm mad as hell and not going to take it anymore.

[gbgary]

if we don't fall into the classic trap game (coming off a big win and looking past a poor opponent to another big game) we might hang fifty on them. they have to remember records mean nothing in rivalry games.

[Guiness]

Well, it is supposed to be "cumulative regular-season point differential since 1920"
I read that to be a running total of all game margins since 1920. Perhaps I misunderstand, but that's what it says.

edit: I just looked again: yes, that's exactly what it is, and it's a dumb ass graph.
I was making a calculus joke with "integration"
Now I'm upset all over again.

Bah, it's a neat graph to look at. A couple of thing surprised me, how historically bad the Steelers were, and that the Lions, until recently (post 2000) had kept they head above water - I wouldn't have guessed that.

[pbmax]

yes, not the margin of victory.


Huh? No, just a plot of margin of victory totaled for each year and plotted by year. Good enough.

I had the idea of applying a smoothing filter just to see era trends easier, but not necessary. And maybe bad idea.

The original point of the graph (and the sub-article) was that the Packers had, after a long climb, passed the Bears in total margin of victory. It gave the rest of the teams info for historical comparison.

If you want a graph to show you who has been good/better/best in an era, then get your little wet nose over to Pro Football Reference and pull the data.

Here is the link, though PFR only goes back to 1940: http://goo.gl/WIB2Wp