Rodgers Reminds Magic of Bird

[vince]

High praise but this makes a lot of sense. Bird was lethal while making it look easy. The NFL equivalent of fade-away threes...no-look passes for easy layups... The game just seems to be slower for some people - the great ones.


Earvin Magic Johnson @MagicJohnson • Nov 16
Watching Packers QB Aaron Rodgers lead his team in the first half against the Eagles, I was trying to think of who he reminds me of.

Earvin Magic Johnson @MagicJohnson • Nov 16
Aaron Rodgers reminds me of my good friend and rival Larry Bird. Aaron & Larry have similar qualities.

Earvin Magic Johnson @MagicJohnson • Nov 16
Both Aaron and Larry are great leaders, both are competitive & most importantly make their teammates better, all while making it look easy!

Earvin Magic Johnson @MagicJohnson • Nov 16
So the highest compliment I can give Aaron Rodgers, the best QB in the NFL, is to compare him to 3x NBA Champion Larry Bird!

[Patler]

I have said from early in his career as a starter - Rodgers reminds me of Bart Starr. No other QB since Starr has evoked memories of and the feelings I had about Starr, until Rodgers took over as the starter. Total command of what is going on. Will not make the critical mental mistake that loses you a game. Calm in tense game situations. Demanding of those around him, just as he is demanding of himself. Rodgers seems to be the same type of gentleman that Starr is.

For me, a football fan and Packer fan who witnessed the Packer dynasty of the 1960's it is the a biggest compliment I can think of.

[denverYooper]

I have said from early in his career as a starter - Rodgers reminds me of Bart Starr. No other QB since Starr has evoked memories of and the feelings I had about Starr, until Rodgers took over as the starter. Total command of what is going on. Will not make the critical mental mistake that loses you a game. Calm in tense game situations. Demanding of those around him, just as he is demanding of himself. Rodgers seems to be the same type of gentleman that Starr is.

For me, a football fan and Packer fan who witnessed the Packer dynasty of the 1960's it is the a biggest compliment I can think of.

From comments he makes, it seems Rodgers strives to be what Starr was to the Packers.

[mraynrand]

And if Magic Johnson is looking for a Packer who reminds him of himself, that might be Charles Woodson - who could play multiple different positions and roles, including the leadership role to take a team to a championship - in college and in the Pros.

[red]

Its very high praise coming from magic, comparing a-rod to his best friend

I dont know if we've every seen anyone like a-rod. A 200 yard 2 td and 1 int game is a really bad day for him. Eli just had a 5 int game, thats something we will never see from rodgers, not even close. All of his int this year can be blamed on the recievers

He may just be the best ever when its all said and done. He wont have the career records, but thats only because he got a late start

Myself and others have said that favre and a-rod is is like montana and young, but i would say its more like young followed by montana

We are so lucky

[vince]

I have said from early in his career as a starter - Rodgers reminds me of Bart Starr. No other QB since Starr has evoked memories of and the feelings I had about Starr, until Rodgers took over as the starter. Total command of what is going on. Will not make the critical mental mistake that loses you a game. Calm in tense game situations. Demanding of those around him, just as he is demanding of himself. Rodgers seems to be the same type of gentleman that Starr is.

For me, a football fan and Packer fan who witnessed the Packer dynasty of the 1960's it is the a biggest compliment I can think of.
Nice. That may be higher praise yet. I never saw Starr play but being a lifelong Packer fan it's impossible not to hear and learn about how in control he was on and off the field.

I think it was Kramer who said that Starr was the only person he ever witnessed who Lombardi actually deferred to when it came to being questioned on how he handled players. Lombardi criticized Starr in practice one day and Starr immediately went to Lombardi's office after practiced and asked him to not do that in front of the team because he felt that, as the field general, he needed their respect and being criticized by the coach in front of them undermined that. If he had something to say to him, Starr asked him to say it one on one. Lombardi never again criticized Starr in front of any other players.

My perception of Starr's playing and leadership style, at least in terms of game management, seems akin to John Stockton, who could and would make the big plays when the game was on the line - in control as you said Patler. They were competitive killers, but were much more willing than Bird (or Rodgers) to set up their teammates to make the big shot and distribute the glory in order to make the team better. Big difference there is Starr's teams won five championships while Stockton's teams were always right on the brink but never quite over the hump. A guy named Jordan always seemed to get in the way.

Different times for sure, but a bit off the field perhaps, but my sense is that Rodgers has more ego than Starr ever had. He does a really good job of channeling it, but Rodgers, not unlike just about every great performer, is driven primarily by self-achievement. While lifetime success can be humbling, most people are driven to succeed for selfish reasons. Many great players come across as selfless but just about all of them have selfish motives for doing so. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all but that's perhaps where Starr separates himself.

Based on how friends, teammates and fans honor Starr, my sense is that he was genuinely humble and perhaps even uniquely selfless regardless of his extremely high level of success or how it may have affected his public persona. It's who he is and it comes through no matter if he was a bum on the street or the king of the world. Not as many people would know him if he was a bum but those that did would say he was the nicest bum they ever met.

Maybe that's just how his legend has grown but that seems to be his enduring quality and what shines through all the wins, championships and personal accolades.

Your comparison of Rodgers as "a gentleman" to Starr is also high praise - perhaps even a tad generous. You certainly speak/post with more authority than I on the subject because you've seen and read all the same things I have (probably more) on Starr in addition to witnessing him live as obviously more than a casual observer over the years, but I can't think of any other player in any sport with any level of comparable achievement that has that same sort of genuine "gentlemanly" quality about him as Bart Starr.

[vince]

He may just be the best ever when its all said and done. He wont have the career records, but thats only because he got a late start

Myself and others have said that favre and a-rod is is like montana and young, but i would say its more like young followed by montana

We are so lucky
Yeah, you could even say that Rodgers hasn't had the GOAT (modern time anyway) Jerry Rice to throw to. The "reality" is though that now he just needs what, 3 more rings? I'll be the first to shout from the rooftops that counting championships to measure individual greatness is patently unfair - but I also am the first one to tout Starr's five as proof of his greatness. It's not the end all or even close to that simple but it sure is a good sign. He needs one or two more I'd say to reach that Mt. Everest. No reason right now to say he can't or won't do it other than that he hasn't.

[George Cumby]

Nice. That may be higher praise yet. I never saw Starr play but being a lifelong Packer fan it's impossible not to hear and learn about how in control he was on and off the field.

I think it was Kramer who said that Starr was the only person he ever witnessed who Lombardi actually deferred to when it came to being questioned on how he handled players. Lombardi criticized Starr in practice one day and Starr immediately went to Lombardi's office after practiced and asked him to not do that in front of the team because he felt that, as the field general, he needed their respect and being criticized by the coach in front of them undermined that. If he had something to say to him, Starr asked him to say it one on one. Lombardi never again criticized Starr in front of any other players.

My perception of Starr's playing and leadership style, at least in terms of game management, seems akin to John Stockton, who could and would make the big plays when the game was on the line - in control as you said Patler. They were competitive killers, but were much more willing than Bird (or Rodgers) to set up their teammates to make the big shot and distribute the glory in order to make the team better. Big difference there is Starr's teams won five championships while Stockton's teams were always right on the brink but never quite over the hump. A guy named Jordan always seemed to get in the way.

Different times for sure, but a bit off the field perhaps, but my sense is that Rodgers has more ego than Starr ever had. He does a really good job of channeling it, but Rodgers, not unlike just about every great performer, is driven primarily by self-achievement. While lifetime success can be humbling, most people are driven to succeed for selfish reasons. Many great players come across as selfless but just about all of them have selfish motives for doing so. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all but that's perhaps where Starr separates himself.

Based on how friends, teammates and fans honor Starr, my sense is that he was genuinely humble and perhaps even uniquely selfless regardless of his extremely high level of success or how it may have affected his public persona. It's who he is and it comes through no matter if he was a bum on the street or the king of the world. Not as many people would know him if he was a bum but those that did would say he was the nicest bum they ever met.

Maybe that's just how his legend has grown but that seems to be his enduring quality and what shines through all the wins, championships and personal accolades.

Your comparison of Rodgers as "a gentleman" to Starr is also high praise - perhaps even a tad generous. You certainly speak/post with more authority than I on the subject because you've seen and read all the same things I have (probably more) on Starr in addition to witnessing him live as obviously more than a casual observer over the years, but I can't think of any other player in any sport with any level of comparable achievement that has that same sort of genuine "gentlemanly" quality about him as Bart Starr.

Great post.

[vince]

Thank you sir. I get a little carried away at times throwing opinions around, but it's hard to embellish too much when you talk about Starr.

I really hope he can make it back for an appearance at Lambeau next year. It's getting to where we don't really know if we'll ever see the man in public again. If it happens, that picture of he, Favre and Rodgers will be one for the ages. No doubt his presence will soften any lingering backlash against Favre's anti-Packer behavior at then end, but it does pose quite a distinction of personality. Packerland will follow Starr's lead I think, and we all know how he'll respond - with extreme humility and grace.

When he passes, my guess is there will be a day of mourning throughout the state of Wisconsin that hasn't been seen since Lombardi died and won't likely be seen again. He deserves at least one more public outpouring of appreciation for his contributions - not just to the game, but to all those he's impacted through all of his years, before that happens. That guy has truly taken his lofty perch and used it to give back.

Sorry about the thread jack, but hey, Starr is worth it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You nailed it, Vince.

I watched virtually every game Starr played in his prime. I wasn't paying attention to statistics. I watched from the point of view of purely a fan who wanted the Packers to win. I watched before all the accolades and post career analysis that tend to amplify the good and wash away the warts. Starr was no Aaron Rodgers or even Brett Favre in terms of his raw talent or physical abilities. As a pure passer, Unitas could throw circles around Starr. Starr did not have an especially quick release or a strong arm. He was not fast on his feet. In short, he was the classic case of an over-achiever, a guy who used the gifts he had to their greatest advantage.

In my opinion, Starr's greatest attributes were his character, intelligence, patience and confidence. Those qualities made him an incomparable leader. Nobody in the day was better at keeping the opposing defense off balance. You couldn't game plan against Starr, or the Packers for that matter. Everyone in the league knew what the Packers were going to do; the problem became stopping them. On the other hand, Starr could pick apart a defense, find a weakness and exploit it. You couldn't afford to make a mistake against Starr. He'd take advantage of it. The only way to neutralize Starr was to pass rush the hell out of him, and that's what opponents resorted to. Plus, I truly believe teams (and certain individual players) tried to hurt him, put him out of the game.

Which exemplifies Starr's greatest attribute of all: courage. There were games when Starr's uniform was the only one that wasn't muddied. He stood out like a sore thumb when everyone else on the team was covered with mud. Then again, there were games when Starr was simply pummeled. Teams with great pass rushes, like Chicago, the Lions, Baltimore, the Rams and Dallas gave Packer fans fits. They'd put heavy pressure on Starr, but he wouldn't panic. He'd stand in the pocket and take the sack. Or he would bravely stand tall in the face of an onrushing lineman, toss a pass at the last moment and expose his ribs to punishment. Then, he'd slowly pick himself up off the ground, make his way back to the huddle and do it over again. Starr seemed to have the ability to WILL a win.

Starr didn't wear a flak vest, at least not to my knowledge. He was often injured. Luckily, Zeke Bratkowski was waiting in the wings. Zeke was way more mobile than Starr and probably had a better arm. There were times, I confess, when we as fans wanted Zeke in there instead of Bart. We knew Bart would stand in the pocket and take a beating from the likes of Gino Marchetti, Big Daddy Lipscomb, Doug Atkins, Roger Brown or Alex Karras. We as fans didn't have Bart's patience or courage. Rather than make a mistake, Bart would eat the ball. But in the end, he'd have the last laugh, dumping off a screen to Taylor or Hornung, throwing deep downfield for a TD to Dowler or Dale on 4th and one from his own territory or calling his own number and sneaking into the end zone on the final play of the game to win a championship game. That was a stereotypical Bart Starr moment.

And no matter the beating he took or the criticism, Starr always accepted responsibility. He never threw a teammate under the bus, no matter how bad the screwup. That's why Kramer, Thurston, Gregg and company loved the guy. Never a harsh word. That's why when he did look crosswise at a player in the huddle or call him out, the player listened and responded.

I may take some heat for this, but the only guy I've seen lately with even a measure of Starr's character, tenacity, courage and selfless confidence is Andrew Luck. Yes, I've seen Favre take some shots, and God bless him. But the way Luck can take considerable punishment and keep getting up and hanging in there is very reminiscent of Starr. But Luck has the physical tools and stature Bart wasn't blessed with.

In my book, there will never be another Bart Starr.

[pbmax]

I am genuinely curious what trait convinced his teammates to follow and believe in Bart. While I can see the points that vince makes about Bart's humility and lack of (visible) ego, my own experience is that those that achieve at levels like this have a singular focus and drive that allows them to rise above the substantial efforts of others. Its hard to couple that with putting others literally first. Not just in public comments, but in actual day to day living. There are rare people for whom you feel terrible if you let them down and they never, ever let you know about it. But I do not associate that often with sports, especially football.

Unlike most other questions, I suspect someone here has the answer to that one.

Flak vest/jacket was first worn by Dan Pastorini for the Oilers in the late 70s. Byron Donzis gets the credit. The legend is that he demonstrated the effectiveness of the jacket to Pastorini by sneaking into the hospital where DanP was being treated and having a friend hit him in the ribs while wearing the jacket. SI wrote "Pastorini flinched. Donzis did not." There were versions of padding available to protect ribs before this, but they were thick or were extensions of shoulder pads and made the act of throwing tough.

[mraynrand]

In my book, there will never be another Bart Starr.

except for Otto Graham

[vince]

Starr's greatest attributes were his character, intelligence, patience and confidence. Those qualities made him an incomparable leader. Starr could pick apart a defense, find a weakness and exploit it. You couldn't afford to make a mistake against Starr. He'd take advantage of it. The only way to neutralize Starr was to pass rush the hell out of him, and that's what opponents resorted to. Plus, I truly believe teams (and certain individual players) tried to hurt him, put him out of the game.

Which exemplifies Starr's greatest attribute of all: courage. There were games when Starr's uniform was the only one that wasn't muddied. He stood out like a sore thumb when everyone else on the team was covered with mud. Then again, there were games when Starr was simply pummeled. Teams with great pass rushes, like Chicago, the Lions, Baltimore, the Rams and Dallas gave Packer fans fits. They'd put heavy pressure on Starr, but he wouldn't panic. He'd stand in the pocket and take the sack. Or he would bravely stand tall in the face of an onrushing lineman, toss a pass at the last moment and expose his ribs to punishment. Then, he'd slowly pick himself up off the ground, make his way back to the huddle and do it over again. Starr seemed to have the ability to WILL a win.

We as fans didn't have Bart's patience or courage. Rather than make a mistake, Bart would eat the ball. But in the end, he'd have the last laugh, dumping off a screen to Taylor or Hornung, throwing deep downfield for a TD to Dowler or Dale on 4th and one from his own territory or calling his own number and sneaking into the end zone on the final play of the game to win a championship game. That was a stereotypical Bart Starr moment.

And no matter the beating he took or the criticism, Starr always accepted responsibility. He never threw a teammate under the bus, no matter how bad the screwup. That's why Kramer, Thurston, Gregg and company loved the guy. Never a harsh word. That's why when he did look crosswise at a player in the huddle or call him out, the player listened and responded.

In my book, there will never be another Bart Starr.
That's awesome. Man those guys got beat up back in that day didn't they.

[vince]

I dont know if we've every seen anyone like a-rod.
Check this out.
http://packersnews.net/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=87&t=1
His entire career probably plots out looking similar too. Greatest ever in the combination of efficiency in gaining yards through the air, scoring points and avoiding turnovers. And it looks like he's just now starting to separate further from the rest of the quarterbacks in history. If he keeps that up for much longer, add another championship or two and you'd have to start thinking about whether anybody's ever even been close to him.

[George Cumby]

But, but, but.... He's too cautious with the ball! :roll:

[RashanGary]

We get a championship this year and the recognition Rodgers gets will come unglued!

[Fritz]

In my book, there will never be another Bart Starr.

Surely, Maxie, somewhere in the world, a family named Starr saw the birth of a baby boy, and thought Bartholomew would be a great first name.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Surely, Maxie, somewhere in the world, a family named Starr saw the birth of a baby boy, and thought Bartholomew would be a great first name.

LOL. What are the odds a guy like Bart winds up in the NFL with a last name like Starr?

By the way, when I made the comment about Luck being reminiscent of Starr, it's by no means a slight of ARod! Rodgers is clearly in a class of his own. I read the other day he thinks he can play into his 40's. That would be good for him and great for us. I think ARod could play at a high level for a long time. Starr probably should have retired a year or two sooner. We used to disrespectfully (mea culpa) call Starr the Warren Spahn of the NFL.

[vince]

I am genuinely curious what trait convinced his teammates to follow and believe in Bart. While I can see the points that vince makes about Bart's humility and lack of (visible) ego, my own experience is that those that achieve at levels like this have a singular focus and drive that allows them to rise above the substantial efforts of others. Its hard to couple that with putting others literally first. Not just in public comments, but in actual day to day living. There are rare people for whom you feel terrible if you let them down and they never, ever let you know about it. But I do not associate that often with sports, especially football.Yeah that's a tough one. Maxie hit on a bunch of 'em I'd say but it seems to me there's a long list of traits that exist in as many different degrees as there are people. Guys like Lombardi or Jordan to some extent are followed in no small part because of their strong personalities, high expectations and willingness to call their teammates/players out on the practice field, in the classroom and on the field/court. At the same time, a guy like Starr achieves the same status without possessing the superior athletic gifts nor does he call them out or get tough with his teammates. Different kinds of respect maybe but they both can work.

One guy can essentially be a bully and it works because he possesses the right combination of other traits to compliment that. Another guy can seem to be totally soft and that works because of his unique combination of other traits that compliment THAT. Then there's the approach that it's perhaps not the leader's traits as much as the leaders ability to be flexible in dealing with situations and personalities in different ways based on the teammates personality traits and the situation at hand.

Now there's a long-winded way of saying I don't have a clue. I suspect intelligence and heart (whatever that means) are two of the stronger determinants.

[Zool]

LOL. What are the odds a guy like Bart winds up in the NFL with a last name like Starr?

Should we start calling him Bryan so we sound smarter? Bryan Starr would be a good name for a super hero.

[vince]

This excerpt from the SI article on Cobb and his contract status.

Let’s face it, if you catch passes for a living, there’s really not a better gig in the NFL these days than being a cog in the Aaron Rodgers’ points-palooza in Green Bay. Cobb is well aware of the history No. 12 is making this season. Rodgers leads the league in a host of meaningful statistical categories, and his dominance in the past two months has been pace-setting, with 23 touchdown passes, two interceptions, a 9.72 yards per pass attempt and 132.2 passer rating in the Packers’ past seven games. When Rodgers gets on a roll, Green Bay gets on a roll.

“It’s definitely special what Aaron’s doing,’‘ Cobb said. “I see it week in and week out, and day in and day out. I think when it’s all said and done, he’s going to be the best quarterback in the history of this game, and arguably the best football player in the history of this game.
I'm trying my damnedest not to worry about what a simple thing like another helmet to the knee of Cobb might do to change where the dominoes might land.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Should we start calling him Bryan so we sound smarter? Bryan Starr would be a good name for a super hero.

There was a guy on the Chiefs last night named "Phillip Supernaw." I noticed the name on the back of his uniform and thought it was "Superman."
I did a double take. So close.

[red]

Check this out.
http://packersnews.net/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=87&t=1
His entire career probably plots out looking similar too. Greatest ever in the combination of efficiency in gaining yards through the air, scoring points and avoiding turnovers. And it looks like he's just now starting to separate further from the rest of the quarterbacks in history. If he keeps that up for much longer, add another championship or two and you'd have to start thinking about whether anybody's ever even been close to him.

Yeah, that just about sums it up. The perfect combination of production and efficiency= GOAT

[Patler]

Check this out.
http://packersnews.net/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=87&t=1
His entire career probably plots out looking similar too. Greatest ever in the combination of efficiency in gaining yards through the air, scoring points and avoiding turnovers. And it looks like he's just now starting to separate further from the rest of the quarterbacks in history. If he keeps that up for much longer, add another championship or two and you'd have to start thinking about whether anybody's ever even been close to him.

That chart is awfully amazing. There is a fairly unremarkable progression from one to another within the group, but Rodgers is a gigantic outlier. Rodgers separates himself from the best in the group in each criteria by as much as the low to the high in the group for each category.

[vince]

We get a championship this year and the recognition Rodgers gets will come unglued!
Aaron Rodgers is the Greatest Quarterback Ever to Play American Football (http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/12/05/keidel-aaron-rodgers-is-the-greatest-quarterback-to-ever-play-american-football/)

Before you call this missive a homer’s drooling homage to Rodgers, I draw my holy water from the three rivers of the Ohio, Allegheny, and Monongahela. When I was born the doctor wrapped me in Terrible Towels, with zero allegiance to the mythology of Lambeau Field or Vince Lombardi. Indeed, I still say my Men of Steel handed Green Bay the Super Bowl, thanks to a late game fumble by Rashard Mendenhall.

Sour grapes? You bet. But there’s nothing sour about the sugar-sweet game of Aaron Rodgers, who is a man alone in Lambeau. If there’s a professional proviso, he needs to win another Trophy named after the patron saint of football.

But if Green Bay wins this year’s Super Bowl, not only will his place in the NFL pantheon be amply archived, but it will be time to regard Rodgers as not just an immortal, but also the king of all NFL quarterbacks.

[George Cumby]

Nice, quick read. Worth it.