Lang's penalty - called from on high

[Patler]

OK, this is absurd:


"I was jogging down there, saw Davante fighting for extra yards, saw a guy wrapping him up still trying to take him to the ground and I thought I heard the whistle as soon as I made contact with the guy," Lang said. "I didn't think it was late, that's not the kind of game I play. I just try to take care of my guy.

"The explanation I got from the ref was that somebody upstairs told them to call it on us. It was a tough one. Heat of the moment, man; that's just playoff football. You try to take care of your guys, lot of intensity, might get a letter from the league office but that's fine. Glad we won the game."

Lang said he never heard of being called for a penalty from the press box.

"I asked the ref later in the game what they said and he said, 'We've got a bunch of refs here upstairs' and they felt it should have been on me for instigating the little melee there.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/insidersblog/2015/01/11/lang-scrum-playoff-football/21609315/


I have the game recorded, and have watched and rewatched the play many, many times. A whistle is very audible, and it is almost simutaneous with Lang's hit, but perhaps just a little after. Even knowing when the whistle is coming, if I stop playback at the first sound of the whistle, Hayden is already flying through the air from Lang's hit. I did this many times, and when I stop on the sound, Hayden is in the air. It is possible that there was a whistle slightly earlier that is not audible on TV, but it couldn't be much earlier, as Adams continued to fight after Lang's hit, and the Cowboy actually threw Adams down long after Lang's hit.

In spite of what Buck said, the flag was not thrown on Lang's hit. Noting where the flag was, and watching the various replays, it is clear the flag was thrown well after Lang's hit, as Hayden and others went after Lang. In fact, Buck's play by play goes like this:

"Rogers. Adams. The rookie is (my note - Lang's hit is visible at the 11 yard line, whistle is first heard) wrapped up by Moore ... short of the first down." (Adams, goes down at the 15 yard line, whistles keep blaring) After several counts of silence during which I counted 8 distinct tweets of a whistle, and after two Cowboys have pushed Lang all the way to the five yard line and out of bounds, Buck says ".... And now they are going to throw a flag.... T.J. Lang is in the middle of it."

After all was done, the flag is seen at the 6 yard line, near the sideline, exactly where the Cowboys were going after Lang, but isn't there when Lang is still on the field of play being pushed by the Cowboys. It is only there after Lang is out of bounds, all consistent with the timing of Buck's call as the play unfolded.

I would be willing to bet, the intent of the flag when thrown was against the Cowboys going after Lang.


Side notes:
- Bakhtiari is one fiery dude, grabbing and throwing Hayden to the ground, then motioning at Hayden to come after him.
- Bakhtiari looks much thicker on his lower body than he did last year.

[pbmax]

Patler, can you get video and sound from your DVR to the computer?

I could have sworn the whistle was already blown when they were forcing Adams backwards. but would love to see it again.

[George Cumby]

Concur on all points but after rewatching the play, I heard the whistle a fraction of a second before Langs hit. But then, I'm a lot younger and haven't lost my high-range hearing, yet. :lol:

I loved Bakhtiari ripping that dude to the ground. Proud. I love the big guys getting fired up and nasty. Whet the edge for next week.

[Patler]

Patler, can you get video and sound from your DVR to the computer?

I could have sworn the whistle was already blown when they were forcing Adams backwards. but would love to see it again.

I have no clue how to do that. Sorry.

[wootah]

Let one of your grandchildren film it with their smartphone & upload it to youtube then ;)

[Patler]

Concur on all points but after rewatching the play, I heard the whistle a fraction of a second before Langs hit. But then, I'm a lot younger and haven't lost my high-range hearing, yet. :lol:


You could be right, but the first I heard was so close to the hit, that no matter how many times I tried, I was unable to stop the video at a time before the hit even with my finger on the button ready to stop at first sound.

[mraynrand]

I heard commentary on the radio that the focus of the refs was to go after the instigator. IOW, to get the guy that 'started it' instead of the second guy who comes in (like the oft repeated saw that 'it's not the guy who started it who gets the flag, it's the retaliator'). Moreover, that they don't want offsetting penalties, they want to penalize the instigator. So the officials huddle and try to sort it out and assign the penalty to the first guy. So, regardless of edicts from on high, I think that's what they were trying to do, but it really looks like they blew it simply because you're not an instigator if the play is still live. They were trying so hard to find 'the first guy' that it seems they overlooked whether what he was doing was, in fact, legal or not.

[Patler]

Let one of your grandchildren film it with their smartphone & upload it to youtube then ;)

Ya, I probably could randomly pick any 5 year old to do it.

[pbmax]

Ya, I probably could randomly pick any 5 year old to do it.

If you know anyone who can film video with their phone, its easy to do and then upload.

[Patler]

I heard commentary on the radio that the focus of the refs was to go after the instigator. IOW, to get the guy that 'started it' instead of the second guy who comes in (like the oft repeated saw that 'it's not the guy who started it who gets the flag, it's the retaliator'). Moreover, that they don't want offsetting penalties, they want to penalize the instigator. So the officials huddle and try to sort it out and assign the penalty to the first guy. So, regardless of edicts from on high, I think that's what they were trying to do, but it really looks like they blew it simply because you're not an instigator if the play is still live. They were trying so hard to find 'the first guy' that it seems they overlooked whether what he was doing was, in fact, legal or not.

Exactly. I think I ruined my own thread with my long description of the play. I really started this to address the question of someone not on the field decreeing what should be called. It's not like replay, where they are looking at the ball, feet, etc. to see what happened. This depended on timing, when the whistle sounded, if Lang could have stopped if it did, etc. I don't know how anyone other than the onfield officials could make that decision.

[Patler]

If you know anyone who can film video with their phone, its easy to do and then upload.

Film video with a phone? My telephone cord won't reach from the phone on the wall in the kitchen to the living room where my TV is (even though I have one of those long spirally cords from the receiver to the phone itself). Can I use my Betamax camera and video tape recorder to do it? I have one of the new fancy ones with a cassette rather than reel to reel!

[pbmax]

Film video with a phone? My telephone cord won't reach from the phone on the wall in the kitchen to the living room where my TV is (even though I have one of those long spirally ones). Besides, I thought phones were for making calls? Can I use my Betamax camera and video tape recorder to do it?

You could, but then you would need to mail me the tape parcel post. ;)

[hoosier]

Resolution and sound aren't great but clear enough to see that Lang's block comes just a fraction of a second after the whistle.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhQJZ6vGpTw#action=share

[Pugger]

I don't recall ever hearing of an official up in a booth calling down to the zebras on the field to call a penalty during a game before. If this indeed happened I hope McCarthy complains to NY big time.

[pbmax]

I don't recall ever hearing of an official up in a booth calling down to the zebras on the field to call a penalty during a game before. If this indeed happened I hope McCarthy complains to NY big time.

I think the ref Lang is speaking about is referring to 'up there, as in upstairs, in the executive suites, where people like the work-a-day man-ref would not play their trade'.

Does anyone else hear something like a whistle at precisely the moment before 1 second clicks on the You Tube video? Because that is what I remember, but it is not followed by the obvious, multiple whistles at 3 seconds?

[hoosier]

Does anyone else hear something like a whistle at precisely the moment before 1 second clicks on the You Tube video? Because that is what I remember, but it is not followed by the obvious, multiple whistles at 3 seconds?

I just watched it on rewind. There was no initial single whistle, just the cluster of whistles a split second before Lang makes contact.

[pbmax]

I must have a blown speaker or something but it tracks my memory perfectly. I thought Lang was late but the flag seemed to be for the scrum after, which wasn't visible on TV from high TV angle. So I thought worst case, offsetting and maybe they get lucky and Dallas got itself flagged.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The block is simultaneous with the whistle or a fraction of a second afterwards. I brought this up at the time, that it's apparently ok for the defense to keep piling on and trying to tackle after the whistle but OL can't touch them. That is the issue I have with this.

[hoosier]

I think the problem was that Lang's hit was quite violent in comparison with what was happening between the defenders and Adams. He was fighting to gain yardage, they were trying to sling him backwards, and then all of sudden Lang comes flying into the picture and picks off one of the defenders. It looked violent, and then that violence was compounded by the fact that the whistles start blowing a faction of a second before impact.

[woodbuck27]

You could, but then you would need to mail me the tape parcel post. ;)

Then .....if you should decide to agree to this mission... destroy the Betamax Camera 'of course'.

[woodbuck27]

I think the problem was that Lang's hit was quite violent in comparison with what was happening between the defenders and Adams. He was fighting to gain yardage, they were trying to sling him backwards, and then all of sudden Lang comes flying into the picture and picks off one of the defenders. It looked violent, and then that violence was compounded by the fact that the whistles start blowing a faction of a second before impact.

When something is violent it should look violent.

Violence ......... and whistles !

Let's lobby to get rid of the whistles.

[woodbuck27]

Seriously the officiating of a game as important as this one was should be done by the Officials on the field.

Not by some 'Counsel Of Officials' controlling it all from 'high above'.

The NFL has created a serious problem for itself with so much that certainly informs of the TRUTH.

[smuggler]

Was a terrible call at the time, and it's still a terrible call. And they should fine Cowboys #99 for throwing punches.

[Freak Out]

I'm glad he cleaned the guys clock.

[LEWCWA]

Yeah I don't understand the throwing O player down after the whistle being ok, but Lang flagged for playing through the whistle. That should have been a no call. You have to let a little go in the playoffs.....just another example of making the players wear skirts. The guys from the 60's - 70's couldn't play today. The would get ejected every week!

[Rutnstrut]

I said from the beginning that Lang was playing the play out because the defense was still playing, but NO. Everyone wants to jump on Lang.

[Freak Out]

I said from the beginning that Lang was playing the play out because the defense was still playing, but NO. Everyone wants to jump on Lang.

At the time I remember thinking what a dipshit he was...after I saw the replay today you realized just how close it was. Bad call.....Just as I was cursing M3 for throwing the flag on the Dez non-catch...I was sure he had wasted the last timeout until I saw the replay from a few angles.

[King Friday]

At the time I remember thinking what a dipshit he was...after I saw the replay today you realized just how close it was. Bad call.....Just as I was cursing M3 for throwing the flag on the Dez non-catch...I was sure he had wasted the last timeout until I saw the replay from a few angles.

I think Lang gets penalized for that even if the hit comes FIVE SECONDS BEFORE any whistle...providing it started the melee it did.

It was an unnecessary hit, and those are hits that the NFL will crack down HARD on in the concussion era. The guy Lang hit was not the main one interacting with Adams. It was relatively clear the play was about to whistled dead...which is why the 3 other Cowboys near the action weren't bothering to jump in.

It was not a smart play. I understand the emotion of the situation...and like that we have some guys with mean streaks on the OL...but again, that was a play that cost us a good chance at 4 additional points and potentially could've cost us the game. I don't view it as one that should be defended.

I'm guessing the edict from "on high" was just a confirmation that Lang's hit started the whole mess...which IMO is probably the correct call. If someone came in and leveled Lang on a similar play, I would want the flag thrown against the offender.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All I know is, after the Lang dust up, our OL played the rest of the game like they were on a mission. I think it fired up the whole team.

[King Friday]

All I know is, after the Lang dust up, our OL played the rest of the game like they were on a mission. I think it fired up the whole team.

If that is what it takes to get them going, then we have issues.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If that is what it takes to get them going, then we have issues.

Not to get them going, but to get them to kick it up a notch. That happens in football all the time in big games. Both teams are juiced, but then something happens and one team gets really juiced and captures "momentum."

[ThunderDan]

The crowd went nuts after it wasn't offsetting penalties. The noise and energy level went up for the rest of the game after that play.

[woodbuck27]

" Just as I was cursing M3 for throwing the flag on the Dez non-catch...I was sure he had wasted the last timeout until I saw the replay from a few angles. " Freak Out ( Post #27 )

Most people watching that game felt the Dez Brant "no catch" .... was a catch until technology and 'the Rule' took over.

[pbmax]

If Lang hits someone who has his mitts directly on Adams, I don't think its a penalty. He hit the guy behind the guy holding up Davante.

Rivera and Winters used to have that job and they knocked a few screws loose doing it.

[KYPack]

I have no clue how to do that. Sorry.

P, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, make me a copy of this whole deal and put it on 8 track.

[woodbuck27]

P, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, make me a copy of this whole deal and put it on 8 track.

Now we're getting somewhere.

[George Cumby]

All I know is, after the Lang dust up, our OL played the rest of the game like they were on a mission. I think it fired up the whole team.

This. And this is a good thing. Just the right amount of attitude.

This team just feels like they are tougher than the last few years. I don't know what it is, an edge, an attitude, how they carry themselves. This is the team you want to go to war with.

[woodbuck27]

This. And this is a good thing. Just the right amount of attitude.

This team just feels like they are tougher than the last few years. I don't know what it is, an edge, an attitude, how they carry themselves. This is the team you want to go to war with.

I like the feel of the team too.

Winning that game vs Dallas was what I hope pushes the Packers to where they must be:

Really believing that the Lombardi Trophy is theirs after two more games.

I'm very much getting the same feeling I had when the Green Bay Packers last won the biggest prize in the NFL.

We're supporting a winner right now. Count on that !

GO PACKERS ! GO PACK GO !!

[Patler]

P, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, make me a copy of this whole deal and put it on 8 track.

I actually have one in my basement, and a box of tapes for it. They came and went so fast, I kept the last one I had in one of my cars just for the heck of it. Son #2 and I are contemplating restoring a car from my younger days, and if we do the 8 track will go in it.

[woodbuck27]

I actually have one in my basement, and a box of tapes for it. They came and went so fast, I kept the last one I had in one of my cars just for the heck of it. Son #2 and I are contemplating restoring a car from my younger days, and if we do the 8 track will go in it.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTsvETWRow9UYtfBjKMDhzreWiRx3Sb 27rJlOPRpNZMXUkvkAq

Can't you see it now?

[Patler]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTsvETWRow9UYtfBjKMDhzreWiRx3Sb 27rJlOPRpNZMXUkvkAq

Can't you see it now?

Where are the horses?

[George Cumby]

I have some spare clay tablets that I've kept around for no particular reason, so if Patler and KY want to get nostalgic, they can break out their mad Cunnieform skilz and show us whipper snappers how it was done in the old days.