An Attempt At Discussing McCarthy's Future

[BallHawk]

I think most of us are in agreence that McCarthy (and Capers) playcalling is what largely cost us this game. Too conservative, too scared, lacking balls, etc.

But the questions becomes: What are we going to do about?

McCarthy is a fantastic man, motivator, and developer of talent. That being said, in the NFL today, you can't win on being a good guy with a hearty laugh and good morals. We have one of the best QBs to play the game and we're squandering it year after year. That isn't all on McCarthy, not by any means, but I'm just gonna throw some things out there as food for thought. These are just my opinions and I am by no means stating these as facts:

1. If you take away the Super Bowl run in 2010, he's 3-6 in the playoffs. 3 of those losses have come at home.

2. While overseeing a high-scoring offense, I don't think anybody would argue that he is a good playcaller. He has benefited from fantastic talent around him and he has Ted to thank for that.

3. His attitude causes some concern. Watch the postgame press conferences from both Rodgers and McCarthy. Rodgers clearly took issue with the playcalling, but ultimately says the whole team takes responsibility. McCarthy churned out some hoo-rah we played hard and Seattle made great plays, what a game. He also refused to question his playcalling.

4. He has not shown any huge improvements as a coach. Some coaches you can actively see improving over the years. With Mike, I think what you see now is what you will always have.

5. As a Florida Gator, I will point out two notes on coaches. We fired Will Muschamp because, although he was well-liked, a fantastic man, and a great motivator, he wasn't delivering results. We expect success and don't accept moral victories year after year. This year, Ohio State won a championship with our old coach, Urban Meyer. Ohio State does not win that title if Urban isn't their coach. He willed them to that title and is proof of the impact elite coaching can have on a team.

So, with that being said, how long of a leash do you give Mike? This team is too talented to miss out on playoffs, but an attitude of just making it year after year only to fall one or two games short isn't pleasing anybody. When do you say enough is enough?

[Freak Out]

Wow....they are coming out of the woodwork. Father or son? :)

[pbmax]

McCarthy isn't going to sit on the playcalling couch to discuss his approach with the media.

I actually think Rodgers has taken some liberties with his relationship with the coach in the media and M3 needs to sit on him.

Perhaps if the League MVP can look back at his off target throws and find something else to work on this offseason.*


*last one is a cheap shot as he is playing hurt.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Is this the mature alternative to the "The difference between a good coach and bad coach" thread?

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt304/TheBlackAdder/Not%20my%20pics/841243Princeton-Physicist-J-Robert-.jpg

[vince]

McCarthy's future is bright. 4 straight division championships, Super Bowl victory, 3 NFC Championships (I think). One of the highest winning percentages in coaching. Top 10 offenses every damn year. A few guys that need to be re-upped I'd say but if that happens along with a decent draft class, combined with Seattle's likely attrition, Brady and Manning hitting their end, I'd say the Packers have a good chance at going into next year as Super Bowl favorites. If Cobb and Bulaga are back along with a couple more guys, I'd put them ahead of the Colts next year myself.

[King Friday]

I don't think you can even consider firing McCarthy. He put this team in position to win a game in Seattle that most Packer fans weren't expecting us to win. It is dumb to take away his successful Super Bowl run...IT HAPPENED. No reason to exclude it and focus only on the failures.

However, there are some valid points regarding his shortcomings...and whether or not we've seen any IMPROVEMENT in those areas over the last 3-4 years. Who is going to hold McCarthy accountable to improve in those areas? Does Thompson understand enough about coaching to challenge McCarthy?

I think it is clear after this epic loss that some big changes need to be made. That doesn't mean taking playcalling away from McCarthy or firing Capers...but when your team as a whole fails MULTIPLE TIMES when it counts on the NFCC game stage, and many of those failures came in areas that have been areas of concern for some time, you can't just "keep on keeping on".

[King Friday]

I actually think Rodgers has taken some liberties with his relationship with the coach in the media and M3 needs to sit on him.

I dunno...that could cause further injury to his calf. McCarthy is starting to get rather hefty.

[King Friday]

If Cobb and Bulaga are back along with a couple more guys, I'd put them ahead of the Colts next year myself.

Oh goodie! We are ahead of a team who just lost 45-7.

[mraynrand]

I dunno, Stubby seems to improve with the health of his players. even today, there were a ton of yards left on the field because Rodgers couldn't run.

Everyone - and most people here, myself included - thought the Seachickens were gonna win. Stubby and his staff punked the shit outta Seattle for 55 minutes and then collapsed with as absurd a collection of errors and odd circumstances as you'll ever see. Good coaches don't make the playoffs 6 straight years. Great coaches do. Stubby has proven himself a great coach. Until he starts winning 5-6 games/year for several years, he's gonna stay in GB. Watch today's game again and you'll see a coach who adapted well to the defense he had to play. It just collapsed horribly.

[Striker]

I don't think you can even consider firing McCarthy. He put this team in position to win a game in Seattle that most Packer fans weren't expecting us to win. It is dumb to take away his successful Super Bowl run...IT HAPPENED. No reason to exclude it and focus only on the failures.

However, there are some valid points regarding his shortcomings...and whether or not we've seen any IMPROVEMENT in those areas over the last 3-4 years. Who is going to hold McCarthy accountable to improve in those areas? Does Thompson understand enough about coaching to challenge McCarthy?

I think it is clear after this epic loss that some big changes need to be made. That doesn't mean taking playcalling away from McCarthy or firing Capers...but when your team as a whole fails MULTIPLE TIMES when it counts on the NFCC game stage, and many of those failures came in areas that have been areas of concern for some time, you can't just "keep on keeping on".

I don't think you can fire McCarthy either. I'm pissed about how he coached today, and his status as an "elite" coach certainly took a shot with today's debacle.

But look at some of those other highly regarded coaches out there that are now retired such as Dungy and Cowher. Only 2 SB championships between them (and a lot of coming up short moments) but they had ridiculously long tenures with their respective teams.

That being said, the Packers need to hope that MM takes a good look at his own in-game strategies and makes an active attempt to fix it.

[pbmax]

I dunno, Stubby seems to improve with the health of his players. even today, there were a ton of yards left on the field because Rodgers couldn't run.

Everyone - and most people here, myself included - thought the Seachickens were gonna win. Stubby and his staff punked the shit outta Seattle for 55 minutes and then collapsed with as absurd a collection of errors and odd circumstances as you'll ever see. Good coaches don't make the playoffs 6 straight years. Great coaches do. Stubby has proven himself a great coach. Until he starts winning 5-6 games/year for several years, he's gonna stay in GB. Watch today's game again and you'll see a coach who adapted well to the defense he had to play. It just collapsed horribly.

And his healthy players beat the crap out of the Seachickens for 50 minutes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And his healthy players beat the crap out of the Seachickens for 50 minutes.

More like 52 minutes, 48 seconds.

The Semen scored 15 points in 45 seconds, according to Homer's reckoning

[wist43]

There will be no changes... Ted doesn't make rash decisions.

They'll rationalize that the coaching decisions played no role in the loss - they'll cash their paychecks, and we'll see everyone again next fall.

[domey]

"That being said, the Packers need to hope that MM takes a good look at his own in-game strategies and makes an active attempt to fix it."

Yep!

[mraynrand]

So, with that being said, how long of a leash do you give Mike? This team is too talented to miss out on playoffs, but an attitude of just making it year after year only to fall one or two games short isn't pleasing anybody. When do you say enough is enough?

Once I become rational again in a few days, after I talk to Cleveland Brown fans for a reality check, I will reflect on all the fun in this season. I will be very pleased at all the wins I got to watch. Falling short is not fun, but all but one have to experience it every year. So get used to it.

[domey]

Once I become rational again in a few days, after I talk to Cleveland Brown fans for a reality check, I will reflect on all the fun in this season. I will be very pleased at all the wins I got to watch. Falling short is not fun, but all but one have to experience it every year. So get used to it.

Me too, I think. As I just told my wife, it is not that they lost, it is how they lost.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Me too, I think. As I just told my wife, it is not that they lost, it is how they lost.

It was the most painful loss in the history of sports. I'm not joking.

But shit, every season ends with a loss - if you are good enough to make playoffs and don't win Super Bowl.

This too shall pass, like a kidney stone.

[woodbuck27]

McCarthy's future is bright. 4 straight division championships, Super Bowl victory, 3 NFC Championships (I think). One of the highest winning percentages in coaching. Top 10 offenses every damn year. A few guys that need to be re-upped I'd say but if that happens along with a decent draft class, combined with Seattle's likely attrition, Brady and Manning hitting their end, I'd say the Packers have a good chance at going into next year as Super Bowl favorites. If Cobb and Bulaga are back along with a couple more guys, I'd put them ahead of the Colts next year myself.

and Mike McCarthy will still be THE SAME MIKE MCCARTHY.

He won't get his team another Super Bowl win unless he makes some serious changes.

That man has to first and foremost hold himself responsible for that loss today.

That's a decent and understandable start.

[pbmax]

Make sure the discussion about his future covers how Capers had to adjust to this:

Wes Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 48m48 minutes ago
CM3 said "medley of things" caught up w/ him late. Worked w/ trainers to get back "I have enough time to rest now so dont feel sorry for me"

[vince]

Oh goodie! We are ahead of a team who just lost 45-7.
Seattle and New England have challenges to maintaining elite status. Colts are at least near the top, trending that way with a young franchise qb.

Who else you got as favorites? Dallas? They have a bunch of questions this offseason. Arizona? maybe but that's debatable. Baltimore? perhaps.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That man has to first and foremost hold himself responsible for that loss today.

I agree. Seeing Big Mike after the game, he looked shell shocked. I don't mean that as a metaphor, I mean he literally looked like he crawled out of a WW I trench.

It will take some time.

[domey]

Seriously - can they mentally get over this? Something like this can really affect a person for a long time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Seriously - can they mentally get over this? Something like this can really affect a person for a long time.

I find myself wanting to fire MM. I am unhinged.

[BallHawk]

Seriously - can they mentally get over this? Something like this can really affect a person for a long time.

I've seen comparisons to the decline that happened to the Cowboys after "The Catch." That being said, look at the Spurs. Lost gut-wrenchingly to the Heat and then came back the next year and absolutely dominated them in the Finals. But again, they have an elite coach in Pop and an amazing crew of veterans. Not a perfect comparison.

[mraynrand]

It was the most painful loss in the history of sports. I'm not joking.

But shit, every season ends with a loss - if you are good enough to make playoffs and don't win Super Bowl.

This too shall pass, like a kidney stone.

This one might grow like a tumor on that chinese guy.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/08/article-0-1F78B84F00000578-489_634x449.jpg

[BallHawk]

Wow....they are coming out of the woodwork. Father or son? :)

Holy spirit.

[Bretsky]

I'm not happy with MM or Capers after today and ST coaching has been terrible for too long.

With that being said, what current coaches would you take over MM (besides Hoody Genius, which is a given) ?

And what I out there you would hire over MM ?

I think the leash is long but I do hope TT will push for some staff improvements like he did with Vanilla Bob Sanders years back

[BallHawk]

I'm not happy with MM or Capers after today and ST coaching has been terrible for too long.

With that being said, what current coaches would you take over MM (besides Hoody Genius, which is a given) ?

And what I out there you would hire over MM ?

I think the leash is long but I do hope TT will push for some staff improvements like he did with Vanilla Bob Sanders years back

Current? Besides Belichick, I'd probably take Harbaugh, Pagano, Tomlin, Carroll. Maybe even Chip.

The latter question is a harder one. Don't have an immediate answer to that.

[Bretsky]

Current? Besides Belichick, I'd probably take Harbaugh, Pagano, Tomlin, Carroll. Maybe even Chip.

The latter question is a harder one. Don't have an immediate answer to that.


GOOD LIST....some might argue Sean Payton

I think I'd prefer Hoody Genius and Pete Carroll but I"m not sure I"d take any of the others.

[wist43]

I agree. Seeing Big Mike after the game, he looked shell shocked. I don't mean that as a metaphor, I mean he literally looked like he crawled out of a WW I trench.

It will take some time.

He didn't crawl out of a trench - he crawled out of a shell; b/c that is what he crawled into with 5:00 left in the game - just hoping the clock would run out... tick, tock... why won't it go faster??!!!

MM was simply terrible at the end of this game, and dunderdummy was worse... as good a job as they did in the first half, they exponentially screwed it the other way in the 2nd half.

MM isn't going anywhere - but for the love of God, can we get rid of dunderdummy?? I'm beggin ya??

[Joemailman]

Current? Besides Belichick, I'd probably take Harbaugh, Pagano, Tomlin, Carroll. Maybe even Chip.

The latter question is a harder one. Don't have an immediate answer to that.

Pagano just lost 45-7. Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since 2010. Chip hasn't won a playoff game.

[vince]

and Mike McCarthy will still be THE SAME MIKE MCCARTHY.

He won't get his team another Super Bowl win unless he makes some serious changes.

That man has to first and foremost hold himself responsible for that loss today.

That's a decent and understandable start.
I give up. Serious changes? Replacing their 3rd string TE on the hands team is a change that woulda got him to the Super Bowl this year. How serious is that?

[call_me_ishmael]

but for the love of God, can we get rid of dunderdummy?? I'm beggin ya??

We gave up 21 points to the prolific cowboy offense. We gave up 22 to the Seahawks on a day where Rodgers through two picks. Exactly what is the problem here? Did you not expect to win both games with the points allowed?

[call_me_ishmael]

Harbaugh was 8-8 this year. Pagano just lost 45-7. Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since 2010. Chip hasn't won a playoff game.

Top coaches IMO:

1. BB
2. John Harbaugh
3. Jim Harbaugh

After that, it is Tomlin/Payton/McCarthy/Carroll. John Harbaugh is amazing.

[pbmax]

I don't think Michigan beats the Steelers or Packers.

[Bretsky]

Top coaches IMO:

1. BB
2. John Harbaugh
3. Jim Harbaugh

After that, it is Tomlin/Payton/McCarthy/Carroll. John Harbaugh is amazing.


John Harbaugh was absolutely schooled by the best last week. Maybe he's better than MM but I'm not sold yet. I'll take Carroll though

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

A good coach learns from his mistakes. I'm just not seeing that from stubby. Since I agree he will be back next year, please please prove me wrong and fire Slocum and capers, and grow some larger balls.

[mraynrand]

I agree. Seeing Big Mike after the game, he looked shell shocked. I don't mean that as a metaphor, I mean he literally looked like he crawled out of a WW I trench.

It will take some time.

Yeah, I gotta imagine as tough as it is for fans, it's got to be devastating for coaches and players.

[mraynrand]

Top coaches IMO:

1. BB
2. John Harbaugh
3. Jim Harbaugh

After that, it is Tomlin/Payton/McCarthy/Carroll. John Harbaugh is amazing.

Packers routinely beat John Harbaugh.

[BallHawk]

Pagano just lost 45-7. Tomlin hasn't won a playoff game since 2010. Chip hasn't won a playoff game.

Pagano overachieved with the roster he had. Tomlin has been wrecked by injuries the last few years. Chip just brings so much to the table that I think his success is inevitable if he decides he wants to stick it out in the pros.

[mraynrand]

Maybe the Packers just need to tank a season or two to get higher draft picks. All this success is just leading to draft failure. It will be worth it, believe me. You will enjoy those 4-12 seasons.

[pbmax]

Maybe the Packers just need to tank a season or two to get higher draft picks. All this success is just leading to draft failure. It will be worth it, believe me. You will enjoy those 4-12 seasons.

They could trade Brad Jones and AJ Hawk plus a fifth rounder for Joe Thomas. Then move Thomas for a pair of first round picks.

[mraynrand]

They could trade Brad Jones and AJ Hawk plus a fifth rounder for Joe Thomas. Then move Thomas for a pair of first round picks.

I think that would work, but Hershel Walker has to be included somewhere in that trade sequence.

[ThunderDan]

GOOD LIST....some might argue Sean Payton

I think I'd prefer Hoody Genius and Pete Carroll but I"m not sure I"d take any of the others.

Sean won how many games this year?

[woodbuck27]

There will be no changes... Ted doesn't make rash decisions.

They'll rationalize that the coaching decisions played no role in the loss - they'll cash their paychecks, and we'll see everyone again next fall.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6c_QqVYnla1KFzF8MOLBBugApFk3ro 5EYHBCwkrH74q8Rg8ja

The facts of life and Packer Nation.

[mr_blonde]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT6c_QqVYnla1KFzF8MOLBBugApFk3ro 5EYHBCwkrH74q8Rg8ja

The facts of life and Packer Nation.

This!

[Smidgeon]

Wow....they are coming out of the woodwork. Father or son? :)

Yep. I noticed that too. The really bad ones are just increasing the size of my ignore list.

[Smidgeon]

Pagano overachieved with the roster he had. Tomlin has been wrecked by injuries the last few years. Chip just brings so much to the table that I think his success is inevitable if he decides he wants to stick it out in the pros.

M3 has had to deal with injuries too...and keeps winning the division. I'd take him over Tomlin easy. And M3 was Chip before Chip came to the NFL.

[Smidgeon]

I dunno, Stubby seems to improve with the health of his players. even today, there were a ton of yards left on the field because Rodgers couldn't run.

Everyone - and most people here, myself included - thought the Seachickens were gonna win. Stubby and his staff punked the shit outta Seattle for 55 minutes and then collapsed with as absurd a collection of errors and odd circumstances as you'll ever see. Good coaches don't make the playoffs 6 straight years. Great coaches do. Stubby has proven himself a great coach. Until he starts winning 5-6 games/year for several years, he's gonna stay in GB. Watch today's game again and you'll see a coach who adapted well to the defense he had to play. It just collapsed horribly.

Remaining competitive late in the season with low round draft picks and few first round picks panning out due to injury or talent implies that M3 and staff are doing well (especially the offense). Today's collapse wasn't about offensive coaching. It was a defensive catastrophe in the last 5 minutes of regulation. It just fell apart.

[mraynrand]

Remaining competitive late in the season with low round draft picks and few first round picks panning out due to injury or talent implies that M3 and staff are doing well (especially the offense). Today's collapse wasn't about offensive coaching. It was a defensive catastrophe in the last 5 minutes of regulation. It just fell apart.

I think it was a sort of equal opportunity collapse. I really believe that the cause was a change in attitude following the last INT. Everyone switched into kneel-down mode, and they couldn't restart the engines.

[Bossman641]

Pagano overachieved with the roster he had. Tomlin has been wrecked by injuries the last few years. Chip just brings so much to the table that I think his success is inevitable if he decides he wants to stick it out in the pros.

If only we knew of some other team that has routinely been wrecked by injuries over the past few years, we could see how they have done. Does anyone know of such a team?

[Smidgeon]

I think it was a sort of equal opportunity collapse. I really believe that the cause was a change in attitude following the last INT. Everyone switched into kneel-down mode, and they couldn't restart the engines.

I maintain that all the Packers had to do was to slow (not stop) down the Seahawks offense in the last five minutes. A two possession game where possessions were routinely taking 7 minutes off the clock on both sides meant all the defense had to do was to make the Seahawks earn their points. There wasn't enough time to earn them all. But then there was a collapse.

[ThunderDan]

I maintain that all the Packers had to do was to slow (not stop) down the Seahawks offense in the last five minutes. A two possession game where possessions were routinely taking 7 minutes off the clock on both sides meant all the defense had to do was to make the Seahawks earn their points. There wasn't enough time to earn them all. But then there was a collapse.

I maintain that Bostick needed to get his head out of his ass and do his job on the onside kick and the game was over.

Of course one first down by the O sealed the deal also.

[woodbuck27]

I maintain that Bostick needed to get his head out of his ass and do his job on the onside kick and the game was over.

Of course one first down by the O sealed the deal also.

No ThunderDan you cannot slip it all on Brandon Bostick.

Read what Aaron Rodgers is saying:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/aaron-rodgers-does-not-seem-happy-with-play-calling/

Aaron Rodgers does not seem happy with play-calling

Posted by Darin Gantt on January 19, 2015, 7:27 AM EST

Further comment:

ThunderDan !?

Do you want to make this it's own thread?

[ThunderDan]

No ThunderDan you cannot slip it all on Brandon Bostick.

Read what Aaron Rodgers is saying:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/aaron-rodgers-does-not-seem-happy-with-play-calling/

Aaron Rodgers does not seem happy with play-calling

Posted by Darin Gantt on January 19, 2015, 7:27 AM EST

Further comment:

ThunderDan !?

Do you want to make this it's own thread?

If Bostick does his job and Jordy gets the onside kick do we win?

Yes, there were other players and points in the game where we could have put it away. HaHa should have knocked the ball down on the 2 point moon ball prayer. Stop the fake FG. Etc......

[hoosier]

I think Capers showed yesterday why McCarthy has so much loyalty to him. The GB defense absolutely kicked the crap out of the Seahawks for 57 minutes. I haven't seen such a dominating, ass-kicking performance in the limelight a Packer defense since they took the Niners out to the woodshed in the 1995 divisional round. I wish I could see this as a sign of good things to come in 2016, but this loss is going to be hard to bounce back from.

[pbmax]

I maintain that all the Packers had to do was to slow (not stop) down the Seahawks offense in the last five minutes. A two possession game where possessions were routinely taking 7 minutes off the clock on both sides meant all the defense had to do was to make the Seahawks earn their points. There wasn't enough time to earn them all. But then there was a collapse.

That is the trouble though. While wist has burned out his flight or fight response to Capers D, it has had repeated trouble playing bend but don't break defense late in games. Packers D has terrible numbers in the 4th Quarter. Some of this is playing out a lead, but it also points to problems with zone coverage. They just don't play it well.

The TD at the end with no safety was a run blitz, but much of the trouble was having everyone back in a zone.

[hoosier]

No ThunderDan you cannot slip it all on Brandon Bostick.

Read what Aaron Rodgers is saying:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/aaron-rodgers-does-not-seem-happy-with-play-calling/

Aaron Rodgers does not seem happy with play-calling

Posted by Darin Gantt on January 19, 2015, 7:27 AM EST

Further comment:

ThunderDan !?

Do you want to make this it's own thread?

Rodgers is understandably frustrated, and like any QB worth his salt he wants to throw the ball to win the game. But MM stayed true to the principles that have won the Packers games this year. They've been running the ball in the five-minute offense on a regular basis, and they have gotten results. This time they got stuffed by a DL that they had been pushing around for most of the afternoon, and then the defense backed off on the pressure that had given Wilson fits for the entire afternoon. If you want to blame someone for being too conservative it should Capers. But first blame Slocum for not expecting the fake (how the f*** could he not be expecting that?!?) and don't forget to blame Quarless and Bostick for their drops, Rodgers for his miss-fires, and Burnett for sliding too early.

[woodbuck27]

If Bostick does his job and Jordy gets the onside kick do we win?

Yes, there were other players and points in the game where we could have put it away. HaHa should have knocked the ball down on the 2 point moon ball prayer. Stop the fake FG. Etc......

Didn't you see the game?

Did you miss anything here Thunderdan?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/nfl-morning-after-mike-mccarthy-blew-it/

[ThunderDan]

Didn't you see the game?

Did you miss anything here Thunderdan?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/nfl-morning-after-mike-mccarthy-blew-it/

Yes, I saw the game.

Yes, I read your article and still think that getting points early in the game was the right call. We were ahead by two scores with 2:30 left in the game.

Now please answer my question.

If Bostick does his job and Jordy gets the onside kick do we win the game?

[woodbuck27]

Rodgers is understandably frustrated, and like any QB worth his salt he wants to throw the ball to win the game. But MM stayed true to the principles that have won the Packers games this year. They've been running the ball in the five-minute offense on a regular basis, and they have gotten results. This time they got stuffed by a DL that they had been pushing around for most of the afternoon, and then the defense backed off on the pressure that had given Wilson fits for the entire afternoon. If you want to blame someone for being too conservative it should Capers. But first blame Slocum for not expecting the fake (how the f*** could he not be expecting that?!?) and don't forget to blame Quarless and Bostick for their drops, Rodgers for his miss-fires, and Burnett for sliding too early.

I'm not blaming anybody. I'm simply an analytical Packer and NFL fan.

As a forum 'it's the nature of the beast' to try to use some brains and observable skills to clearly define why the team we support allowed the greatest comeback in a second half that I can ever recall.

I believe that few Packer fans were shaken to the realization of that comeback until it was done.

Was the lead not enough? If that is the case...... why?

This sort of question is fair and proper analysis of the question leads to fair conclusions that subverts any bias ie in terms of over enthusiastic Packer fan blindness.

[woodbuck27]

Yes, I saw the game.

Yes, I read your article and still think that getting points early in the game was the right call. We were ahead by two scores with 2:30 left in the game.

Now please answer my question.

If Bostick does his job and Jordy gets the onside kick do we win the game?

The probability of a win does improve if the Packers recover that onside kick.

Does that positive result then mean we win?

NO!

Your obviously from a management background. Your trained to blame the little guy.

Over the top too much more than the Brandon Bostick flub lent itself to the Packers blowing the game.

A game that should not have even been close if the Packers offense had been called and was executed just marginally better.

[pbmax]

The probability of a win does improve if the Packers recover that onside kick.

Does that positive result then mean we win?

NO!

Your obviously from a management background. Your trained to blame the little guy.

Over the top too much more than the Brandon Bostick flub lent itself to the Packers blowing the game.

A game that should not have even been close if the Packers offense had been called and was executed just marginally better.

And woodbuck, sometimes you seemed trained to lose the forest through the trees.


I maintain that Bostick needed to get his head out of his ass and do his job on the onside kick and the game was over.

Of course one first down by the O sealed the deal also.

[woodbuck27]

And woodbuck, sometimes you seemed trained to lose the forest through the trees.

In this argument you sure have that one backwards and 'my stance'.

Why can't your side 'the Madison Crew' ... 'see the forest from the trees' pbmax?

[Bossman641]

Shank?

[woodbuck27]

Shank?

I revised my rhetoric;

This about sums it up here after the Packers get landed on their ass's and all the lame excuses begin:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGewHybJQiCvO0j4A0Gn4g6vCIAlK2w s8LV5Qbidu4wIkM0elt

[pbmax]

In this argument you sure have that one backwards and 'my stance'.

Why can't your side 'the Madison Crew' ... 'see the forest from the trees' pbmax?

Dan:

I maintain that Bostick needed to get his head out of his ass and do his job on the onside kick and the game was over.

Of course one first down by the O sealed the deal also.

Woodbuck responds with:

No ThunderDan you cannot slip it all on Brandon Bostick.

Read what Aaron Rodgers is saying:

[woodbuck27]

Dan:


Woodbuck responds with:

We can get.... on the streets fricken' shitty with one another; or use the God given brains hopefully we're equipped with.

I won't argue what's over the top too obvious.

That was a top to bottom total team loss yesterday.

Time to see Ted Thompson behind a real change. Time for Ted Thompson to really manage it all.

Mike McCarthy has to be set on a different course.

I'm sure that Aaron Rodgers will have plenty of his 'in your face' to say to Mike McCarthy. He needs the support of Ted Thompson and we need to see things shaken up on the coaching staff.

[Infamous]

future = coronary issues

[pbmax]

We can get.... on the streets fricken' shitty with one another; or use the God given brains hopefully we're equipped with.

I won't argue what over the top too obvious.

That was a top to bottom total team loss yesterday.

Time to see Ted Thompson behind a real change. Time for Ted Thompson to really manage it all.

Mike McCarthy has to be set on a different course.

I'm sure that Aaron Rodgers will have plenty of his 'in your face' to say to Mike McCarthy. He needs the support of Ted Thompson and we need to see things shaken up on the coaching staff.

Any one of six things could be changed slightly with better player performance and no coaching alterations and the game is won. Burnett's INT non-return, Jordy's near TD catch, 3rd and 1 goal line (twice), HHCD's near-INT in his freaking hands, Brad Jones FG non-play, Lacy's 3rd and 3 non-first down (Gained 2 yards), Rodgers slant pass to Cobb on 3rd down that was low and could not be turned into a first down.

Bostick's was among the most egregious because it was a mental mistake before it was a physical one. He was supposed to block the guy who recovered the ball. He didn't and then he didn't deliver. Its an obvious turning point that likely would have ended the game.

But the problem with discussing this topic with you is that you still pay NO attention to the second sentence in Dan's post, where he says the Offense could have won it too (agreeing with your ARod quote below his post). You also ignore his answer to another question that while the defense sagged, the offense had as many failings, if not more.

So you take the sentence out of context and pretend he said something he didn't. If that was done to you, we would get a 5,000 word post about how you have been slandered and that everyone should head out to the Meadow. All I am asking you to do is read the entire freaking post.

[woodbuck27]

Any one of six things could be changed slightly with better player performance and no coaching alterations and the game is won. Burnett's INT non-return, Jordy's near TD catch, 3rd and 1 goal line (twice), HHCD's near-INT in his freaking hands, Brad Jones FG non-play, Lacy's 3rd and 3 non-first down (Gained 2 yards), Rodgers slant pass to Cobb on 3rd down that was low and could not be turned into a first down.

Bostick's was among the most egregious because it was a mental mistake before it was a physical one. He was supposed to block the guy who recovered the ball. He didn't and then he didn't deliver. Its an obvious turning point that likely would have ended the game.


You forgot the right sideline pass to Andrew Quarless and drop that was on the money and would have given the Packers an important late 4th Qtr, first down. Do you recall Aaron Rodgers expression after that drop?

On the next series as I recall it Seattle scored and set the stage for the onside kick.

I respond to ThunderDan's posts but we're not going to agree.

I've had him on ignore.

I couldn't help see some of his responses and I replied to his position (s).

That was an error on my part.

[pbmax]

I've had him on ignore.

I couldn't help see some of his responses and I replied to his position (s).

That was an error on my part.

Very kind of you to explain. Mistakes happen all the time. Between my typos, auto correct and misreads, I am surprised I am not on more ignore lists myself.

Thanks Woodbuck.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Very kind of you to explain. Mistakes happen all the time. Between my typos, auto correct and misreads, I am surprised I am not on more ignore lists myself.

Thanks Woodbuck.

Oh crap, thanks for reminding me, I've been wanting to put u on ignore.

[pbmax]

Oh crap, thanks for reminding me, I've been wanting to put u on ignore.

I'll send you a PM in case you can still read this.

[gbgary]

dal took play calling away from garrett and things improved greatly. maybe it's time for the same fix here.

[mraynrand]

I think Capers showed yesterday why McCarthy has so much loyalty to him. The GB defense absolutely kicked the crap out of the Seahawks for 57 minutes. I haven't seen such a dominating, ass-kicking performance in the limelight a Packer defense since they took the Niners out to the woodshed in the 1995 divisional round. I wish I could see this as a sign of good things to come in 2016, but this loss is going to be hard to bounce back from.


It really was a thing of beauty until they thought they had the game won.

[mraynrand]

You forgot the right sideline pass to Andrew Quarless and drop that was on the money and would have given the Packers an important late 4th Qtr, first down. Do you recall Aaron Rodgers expression after that drop?

It was a defensed pass, not simple drop

[mraynrand]

Mike McCarthy has to be set on a different course.

I hope not. 7/9 seasons of playoff football, three championship games and a Super Bowl. I would take that for the next 9 years in a second if you had the power to offer it.

[hoosier]

You guys are so f'ing spoiled. You have no idea what it is like to be fans of most NFL teams. Try living in the shoes of a Redskins fan for just four months. One Superbowl win, three NFC championship games, made the playoffs six years running...You guys are funny :-)

[pbmax]

You guys are so f'ing spoiled. You have no idea what it is like to be fans of most NFL teams. Try living in the shoes of a Redskins fan for just four months. One Superbowl win, three NFC championship games, made the playoffs six years running...You guys are funny :-)

Not going to lie. The Schottenheimer comparisons are frightening.

[King Friday]

You guys are so f'ing spoiled. You have no idea what it is like to be fans of most NFL teams. Try living in the shoes of a Redskins fan for just four months. One Superbowl win, three NFC championship games, made the playoffs six years running...You guys are funny :-)

There is nothing wrong with having expectations. That is a good thing. We expect the Packers to win. I have a perfectly clear idea of what it is like to be a Browns fan. So do most other Packer fans. That is why we push for improvement and change when it is necessary.

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

[mraynrand]

Not going to lie. The Schottenheimer comparisons are frightening.

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.

[mraynrand]

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

[digitaldean]

There is nothing wrong with having expectations. That is a good thing. We expect the Packers to win. I have a perfectly clear idea of what it is like to be a Browns fan. So do most other Packer fans. That is why we push for improvement and change when it is necessary.

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

If you are worried about being fans of an irrelevant franchise, be a Titans, Redskins, Browns fan. Yes, I expect them to win. Yes, I'm pissed they crapped the bed at the end (though I said in first half I hoped the lack of points of turnovers wouldn't bite them and it did). Be a Bengals fan and see your team make the postseason only to see Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis continually hit the wall.

Changes? FIRE SLOCUM! But considering how MM is loyal beyond fault, I am not getting my hopes up.

[King Friday]

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

[George Cumby]

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

Yes. And this aint them.

Playoffs every fucking year. In contention, every fucking year.

Does this hurt? Fuck yes. But it beats losing to Dal at home or not even making it to the playoffs.

[Carolina_Packer]

Do you remember the 70s and 80s?

I lived through that drought. Bart Starr as HC/GM, coming on the heels of the Dan Devine era. You'd think they would have learned from the mistakes of Dan Devine and gone separate GM and Head Coach when they hired Starr. He was behind the 8 ball right off the bat with the desperate Devine trade for John Hadl trade handcuffing the franchise for several years. It's right up there with the Hershel Walker trade between Minnesota and Dallas, just not as famous.

Back in those days and the next 17 years that followed, I never would have dreamed about a Super Bowl. I remember the strike shortened 1982 where the Packers beat the St. Louis Cardinals in the playoffs, thinking maybe they are building something, but they could never build that defense, but the offenses were fun.

This team does not have any of the same problems that Packer teams of those days had. Not even close. That said, as fans we are living off the current standard of living with higher expectations, cheering for an actual contending team that should be making hay. No matter who we add to the roster, how well they are coached up, how strong our regular season record is to get us 2nd seed in the NFC, a home playoff game, etc., if they get in the big game/moment and gack it up because of coaching decisions and player miscues, you begin to wonder what is the root cause.

[Smidgeon]

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.

I'd rep more of your posts, but I'm not allowed.

[pbmax]

no they are not. Winning a Super Bowl changes everything. Shittenheimer never even made it to the show. Jimmy Johnson and Parcells won just two and they're given idol status. Fuck Shittenheimer. Fuck the negative talk about Stubby and TT and the Packers. Fuck you all if you can't appreciate some pretty goddamm glorious football.


Its has been glorious. It will likely be glorious next year and the year after that. And, while I think the Schotty comparison is a legit point of comparison, it doesn't address Thompson's superior handling of the player personnel and GM side.

But the hesitant approach on the road with a lead and the oddly timed moments of brio are reminiscent of his former boss.

[Tyrion Lannister]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy! :mad:

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Yeah, I too lived thru the 70s and 80s deadzone which is exactly why I want to win now with the greatest QB in the NFL because I know the dark times are coming again.

[Patler]

You people do realize that Belichick hasn't won a Super Bowl for 10 years, don't you? Should he be fired? That's an awful long stretch of playoff failures. He hasn't won it since before MM came to GB. Don't give me the excuse that at least he has made Super Bowls since then, because that doesn't matter. A playoff loss is a playoff loss, it doesn't really matter when it is, especially when the loss is to the eventual SB winner. You would be making the same anti-MM arguments even if he had been to several SBs and lost.

When you have a coach that gets you to the playoffs year after year, one that has won it all, one that has gotten to the playoffs in spite of very, very significant injuries, one that has gotten to the playoffs even with rapidly changing rosters from year to year, rolling the dice with someone else is very risky.

Do I think MM is perfect, or the best there is available? No, not at all. I do place a lot of blame on him for the most recent failure; but I also give him a lot of credit for the 55 minutes that they were in total control of the game, in spite of their failures to maximize the opportunities they had. It was what I expected when I wrote in another thread that GB would win in a game that would be close in score, but one they would control. If Bostic catches the onside kick, or better yet if he blocked and allowed Nelson to make what looked like a much easier catch for him, the game probably would have been exactly what I expected. Had they beaten Seattle, my prediction for the SB would have been a GB win.

I'm not blaming Bostic. I could say the same regarding a half dozen other plays.

[mraynrand]

... because I know the dark times are coming again.

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.

[mraynrand]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy! :mad:

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

Shanny and Cheat both have won only with one QB, although Cheat is also probably responsible for most of Parcells' success. We may not get to see it, but it will/would be interesting to see Cheat and Stubby have to transition to a new QB.

[Patler]

The game was lost because players failed to make plays at key times.
The game was close (and therfore "losable"), because MM had a conservative "play not to lose" approach.

But ... For 57 minutes they were well-positioned to win the game because of what MM did in preparing them for the game, and perhaps even because of his conservative approach to this game. Not many gave them much of a chance to win this one. Getting at least some points from every scoring opportunity in a game almost predestined to be low scoring is a solid approach to winning that type of game. Going for max points is well and good in hindsight, but getting nothing from a scoring opportunity against a good defense also can be fatal.

Personally, I had no problem with the first FG, because I think getting an early lead was important. As the lead built, I would like to have seen him be more aggressive on 4th and short when 3 points doen't make a one score lead into a two score lead, or a two score lead into a three score lead. I would not go for it on 4th and short when it is a punting situation. Against a struggling offense, I want to keep the field long.

[Patler]

Coaches who consistently get to the playoffs lose their jobs usually only when relationships break down between the coach and either the GM/front office or owners. When the working relationship breaks down, you have to move on, because things can turn sour very quickly.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.

The decline is inevitable. No team's success can last forever, regardless of the strength of the organization. Just look at the history of the NFL. Every year we get into the playoffs is another year closer to the decline of the packer empire. You have to win when the stars align.

And I for one will not be swayed by the rats' group therapy to make the loss easier. It still hurts like a motherfucker to be soooo close, and have them piss it away.

[mraynrand]

The decline is inevitable. No team's success can last forever, regardless of the strength of the organization. Just look at the history of the NFL. Every year we get into the playoffs is another year closer to the decline of the packer empire. You have to win when the stars align.

And I for one will not be swayed by the rats' group therapy to make the loss easier. It still hurts like a motherfucker to be soooo close, and have them piss it away.

I'm not trying to ease the pain of the loss. Just trying to inject a little reality into the conversation. A decline is not inevitable: but that depends on what you mean by decline. I expect there will be down years, there might even be a stretch where some bad institutional leadership returns. But long stretches of institutional incompetence are not inevitable, just possible and less likely, based on how the Packers are organized. But to your point about winning while stars are aligned - I agree, you like to capture that title when you are close, because nothing is guaranteed. Looking long, long term, I actually think the game of football is destined to be eliminated or so fundamentally changed over the next several decades as to be unrecognizable. By the time that happens, I'm pretty sure the Packers will have a legacy of winning ensconced for all time in the game of football as we now understand it.

[vince]

There's no reason to believe that they will. This isn't a 'law of averages thing,' it's an institutional thing. The Packers organization is set up to succeed. That it may not is a possibility, but it's not subject to some inevitable natural cycle.

Sorry for all the F bombs. I think I am still in the anger stage. I may need more sessions with Dr. John Holmes, MD, Ph.D. for a full recovery.
You mockin' me man? Fuck you! :-) I'll get there sooner or later.

[pbmax]

Shanahan didn't get tenure after winning TWO Super Bowls for Denver, so why should McRetardy?

Fire McCarthy! :mad:

FYI, I've started www.firethatfatfuck.com. Our mission is to get McRetardy fired. Please donate cash today! Thanks.

I'll sign up in 2020. Shanahan got 10 years after the last Super Bowl run.

[Joemailman]

The decline is inevitable. No team's success can last forever, regardless of the strength of the organization. Just look at the history of the NFL. Every year we get into the playoffs is another year closer to the decline of the packer empire. You have to win when the stars align.



It can't last forever, but it should last as long as Rodgers is one of the NFL's top QB's, and as long as TT and MM are running things. Unlike teams like New Orleans and the Giants, teams that have won fairly recent Super Bowls, the Packers are better than they were 2 years ago. They are one of the top 3 teams in the NFL, and they are the 4th youngest team. The decline seems far off.

[hoosier]

Not going to lie. The Schottenheimer comparisons are frightening.

I'm not buying it. MM already won one SB, there is no jinx and no congenital inability to win the big one here. Could MM have done better on Sunday? Maybe, but in his defense he was true to the principles that got the team to that point in the first place. There is a reasonable argument to be made that MM did exactly what he had to do, and that too many players failed to execute when it was time to snuff the life out of the skittles.

But you're an old Browns fan, aren't you? I can imagine that the comparison probably brings back horrid memories that no one would wish to relive.

[pbmax]

I'm not buying it. MM already won one SB, there is no jinx and no congenital inability to win the big one here. Could MM have done better on Sunday? Maybe, but in his defense he was true to the principles that got the team to that point in the first place. There is a reasonable argument to be made that MM did exactly what he had to do, and that too many players failed to execute when it was time to snuff the life out of the skittles.

But you're an old Browns fan, aren't you? I can imagine that the comparison probably brings back horrid memories that no one would wish to relive.

My eyelid has been twitching since I read his name. And there is a vein popping out I haven't seen in a while.

[woodbuck27]

I give up. Serious changes? Replacing their 3rd string TE on the hands team is a change that woulda got him to the Super Bowl this year. How serious is that?

vince:

Brandon Bostic screwed up. That's too obvious to even discuss.

What's even worse is to park the total Green Bay Packer collapse on that successful for Seattle onside kick. If 'on side kicks' were never successful would Seattle have tried to execute one?

I maintain that many things transpired to allow a victory for Seattle.Let's neglect anything that transpired good, bad or indifferent in the opening half.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011800/2014/POST20/packers@seahawks#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap30 00000460724&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

In this LINK:

** Observe what the NFL.COM Analyst Team of Greg Rosenthal, Dan Hanzus, Chris Wesseling and Marc Sessler have to say about the game.

** Also study the Play By Play starting at 4:56 remaining in the 3rd Qtr.

NOTE:

With 4:56 remaining in the 3rd Qtr. The Score is Green Bay 16 - Seattle 0.

[pbmax]

What's even worse is to park the total Green Bay Packer collapse on that successful for Seattle onside kick. If 'on side kicks' were never successful would Seattle have tried to execute one?


Yes, because it was their only hope. 20% of expected onside kicks work.

[ThunderDan]

Brandon Bostic screwed up. That's too obvious to even discuss.


You agree with me now that Bostick screwed up.

Will you apologize to me for your rants now too?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'm not advocating getting rid of McCarthy. On the other hand, everything else being equal, I think the Packers would be just as successful with a guy like Bruce Arians in charge.

[Packman_26]

Good Christ people, who the Hell do you want? Marc Trestman 2.0? The Packers have been one of the top teams in the NFL since 2007. There are a lot more Leslie Frazier's and Jim Schwartz's than there are Vince Lombardi's. Even if McCarthy was the sole reason the Packers lost the game it doesn't mean you should fire him for it. The Packers are a Super Bowl threat every year and have won one already. Losing games like that isn't' acceptable, but the repercussions of losing shouldn't be the fire the guy because there is probably about a 96.7% chance that the next guy won't be any better. It's quite likely he would be worse.

[pbmax]

The problem, of course, is finding Bruce Arians before he becomes Bruce Arians with another team. These are the hires so far this year:

Rex Ryan
Jack Del Rio
Jim Tomsula
Gary Kubiak
John Fox
Todd Bowles

Impressed with anyone? Replacing McCarthy is harder than people think it is.

[Pugger]

Yeah, I gotta imagine as tough as it is for fans, it's got to be devastating for coaches and players.

If you go to the Packers' website and watch video clips of the players as they clean out their lockers on Monday they are still in shock. Make it a point to watch Randall Cobb. He said he awoke several times Sunday night because he couldn't sleep. Listening to Aaron's radio show earlier on Tuesday you could tell he truly didn't want to talk about the game even after 2 days. This is gonna take a while for them to digest this disaster and move on.

[Pugger]

M3 has had to deal with injuries too...and keeps winning the division. I'd take him over Tomlin easy. And M3 was Chip before Chip came to the NFL.

And we really had our way with Chip and the Iggles this season.

[Pugger]

I maintain that Bostick needed to get his head out of his ass and do his job on the onside kick and the game was over.

Of course one first down by the O sealed the deal also.

Our offense not sustaining that drive after Burnett's INT was the beginning of the end to me.

[Pugger]

Yes, I saw the game.

Yes, I read your article and still think that getting points early in the game was the right call. We were ahead by two scores with 2:30 left in the game.

Now please answer my question.

If Bostick does his job and Jordy gets the onside kick do we win the game?

How much time was left, was it under a minute at that point? If so then yes, we win that game and we aren't all in mourning.

[Pugger]

what the fuck? Are you fucking kidding me? Fucking playoffs almost every year for 20 years. 3 Super Bowl wins in 18 years. 13 championships, two great HOF QBs back to back. Arguably the greatest coach in all of sports history. Lambeau Field. Mystique with no rival. What the hell is wrong with you people?

They are spoiled and probably never endured the crap we older fans put up with between Lombardi and Wolf/Holmgren. Those years were terrible. We made the playoffs 2 times over a 25 year period. :-p

[Pugger]

Coaches who consistently get to the playoffs lose their jobs usually only when relationships break down between the coach and either the GM/front office or owners. When the working relationship breaks down, you have to move on, because things can turn sour very quickly.

Just ask Jim Harbaugh.

[Pugger]

It can't last forever, but it should last as long as Rodgers is one of the NFL's top QB's, and as long as TT and MM are running things. Unlike teams like New Orleans and the Giants, teams that have won fairly recent Super Bowls, the Packers are better than they were 2 years ago. They are one of the top 3 teams in the NFL, and they are the 4th youngest team. The decline seems far off.

This.

[Packman_26]

You guys are so f'ing spoiled. You have no idea what it is like to be fans of most NFL teams. Try living in the shoes of a Redskins fan for just four months. One Superbowl win, three NFC championship games, made the playoffs six years running...You guys are funny :-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOtrS7HkMHQ

[hoosier]

There is nothing wrong with having expectations. That is a good thing. We expect the Packers to win. I have a perfectly clear idea of what it is like to be a Browns fan. So do most other Packer fans. That is why we push for improvement and change when it is necessary.

We don't want to become fans of an irrelevant franchise.

High expectations are great. You should have them. Going all chicken little when the Packers don't make it to the SB is overreacting.

[mmmdk]

Coaches who consistently get to the playoffs lose their jobs usually only when relationships break down between the coach and either the GM/front office or owners. When the working relationship breaks down, you have to move on, because things can turn sour very quickly.

This post make sense; in the seas of posts after the Chokinship game. I'm a known Stubby basher...and for the best reason but you can't fire McCarthy and that's because of this working relationship. I don't wan't the Packers of the '70ties and '80ties (though I did become a Packer in '89) but that's not the case here. 2 HOF QBs for nearly 25 years...I'd want to be compared to other dynasties, so comparing this Packers era to another 25 years of failure is plainly a wrong comparison. You can only compare these last 25 years with other franchises that has been blessed in a similar manner...and that's where Stubby fails. Tough but it's part of winning sports. It is McStubby that has been spoiled with talent along with the prior head coaches called Mike. This Packers era is no dynasty. Those coaches apparently just doesn't have 'IT'...except for Holmgren yet it still grew to his head - so there's that.

Lastly, blaming Bostick is ridiculous. Coaching not to lose is the culprit and keeping your no good "buddies" on your coaching staff is also. Bostick took responsibilty...what did Stubby do? Nothing.

So I expect those kind of choking games from the above but damn it...he [almost] had me at halftime then Stubby prophetically blew it. He's no Patton, that's for sure.

[woodbuck27]

Good Christ people, who the Hell do you want? Marc Trestman 2.0? The Packers have been one of the top teams in the NFL since 2007. There are a lot more Leslie Frazier's and Jim Schwartz's than there are Vince Lombardi's. Even if McCarthy was the sole reason the Packers lost the game it doesn't mean you should fire him for it. The Packers are a Super Bowl threat every year and have won one already. Losing games like that isn't' acceptable, but the repercussions of losing shouldn't be the fire the guy because there is probably about a 96.7% chance that the next guy won't be any better. It's quite likely he would be worse.

Please:

List the members here that have called for Mike McCarthy to be fired !?

[mmmdk]

NB - Don't get this wrong. Following the Packers is awesome and it's been good football, will be good football. Kings of the NFC North just no dynasty. And we're not the Lions but that does nothing for me.

[Smidgeon]

The problem, of course, is finding Bruce Arians before he becomes Bruce Arians with another team. These are the hires so far this year:

Rex Ryan
Jack Del Rio
Jim Tomsula
Gary Kubiak
John Fox
Todd Bowles

Impressed with anyone? Replacing McCarthy is harder than people think it is.

Isn't it interesting that four of the six are retreads?

[Patler]

Isn't it interesting that four of the six are retreads?

Very interesting. In a typical year it would be five of the six.

[sharpe1027]

Anyone suggesting MM should be fired is delusional. Anyone suggesting he should look to improve next year...no shit. That's the case every year.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4209/was-green-bay-s-nfc-championship-loss-mike-mccarthy-s-fault?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=nfl_rss&utm_campaign=ob_nfl_rss#

Was Green Bay's NFC Championship Loss Mike McCarthy's Fault?

" ...“If you want to question my play calling … I’m not questioning it."

"I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.” ..." Mike McCarthy ...Fr. Article


Comment woodbuck27:

This is a tough day in the life of Mike McCarthy having learned yesterday (Wed. 21 Jan. 2015) that his younger brother Joe McCarthy passed away suddenly. That tragedy for Mike McCarthy is being covered in it's own thread.

I expect he'll try to deal with this tragedy by simply getting back to work and trying to be as effective or purposeful as possible. We all know the effect short term of such loss can be somewhat or more a negative. Mike McCarthy has to be smart enough to seek any support he may require.

This thread is about football and looking at the past to understand it hopefully for an improved future. The fact that a large part of the loss in Seattle is on Mike McCarthy's election of how to call the game; is made clearly evident in this article.
We often see Mike McCarthy make a change in his play calling that's not sensible. It's the old saying:

"Why change what's working for you."

Many of us have a stubborn streak at least..... sometimes.

As I observe Mike McCarthy one of my observations is that he often gets the blinders on.

I believe I suggested early in the Game Day thread what MM might do to give his team a decent chance against a team that was expected to defeat the Green Bay Packers. I certainly did so in other posts. I wrote of the battle I had to want to will a win for the Packers but that gut feeling escaped me. I ended the post predicting the final score.

Back on point:

Mike McCarthy damned himself in this game (before it even started) by trying to meet a target of a certain number of running plays when he has the NFL MVP playing QB for him. The way he changed up his play calling in the second half was a clear error. Aaron Rodgers knows that and anyone worth their salt as an analyst knows that TRUTH.

The proof of that was in the pudding. Mike McCarthy spoiled his pudding in the second half with the Green Bay Packers leading 16-0. Mike McCarthy became as he often is 'anal' in his style of play calling. Mike McCarthy fails to drive the stake home.This article makes that fact clear.

Studying ** the Play by Play for yourself makes that very clear. Mike McCarthy's play calling leads all in terms of why the Green Bay Packers suffered it's worst defeat in history.

As Jordy nelson said (and I paraphrase):

"Just four more points on the board for the Packers makes that a different game."

Just 1-2 more first downs would have likely done it.

The two '3 and outs', late in the Fourth Quarter before the drive for the game tying FG hurt !

The Game Play by Play:

** http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011800/2014/POST20/packers@seahawks#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap30 00000460724&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

Final Comment woodbuck27:

No one can learn from their error if they refuse to admit error. Real living means learning every single day.

Mike McCarthy has a lot to learn from 'how he failed ' as a play caller in the second half of the Packers collapse.

[ThunderDan]

................................

Final Comment woodbuck27:

No one can learn from their error if they refuse to admit error. Real living means learning every single day.

Mike McCarthy has a lot to learn from 'how he failed ' as a play caller in the second half of the Packers collapse.

If MM's strategy and coaching was so poor, how did we get ahead 16-0 and 19-7? Was it a complete fluke?

Obviously he had a pretty good game plan to beat SEA at SEA and I would say that GB is the only team all year that made SEA look bad.

[woodbuck27]

If MM's strategy and coaching was so poor, how did we get ahead 16-0 and 19-7? Was it a complete fluke?

Obviously he had a pretty good game plan to beat SEA at SEA and I would say that GB is the only team all year that made SEA look bad.

OK I cannot ignore this:

ThunderDan maybe? ... open that mind of yours.

Before you made this post did you read the article and all (or most of) the comments?

Surely this isn't the 'only' group of Packer fans that refuse to get it !



An original game plan must stand up for a complete four quarters. A full 60 minutes. If it's not working then 'of course' that plan must be altered to compensate for anything predicting a loss.

You don't bull headedly focus a game plan on targets. You better be flexible and thinking on your feet. You better allow input.

In Regulation Green Bay had the ball 4:30 longer than the Seattle Seahawks and we see that solid lead at the half.

What are you doing introducing baloney and the term 'fluke'. Get on point please.

The 'only' thing really obvious was the score. A proper analysis gets to the many reasons it got there. This article is clear as to Mike McCarthy's part in why this team was defeated in what he deemed 'a fun game'.

"A fun game". Holy shit Mike !

Vince Lombardi rolled over in his grave at that characterization of Green Bay @ Seattle last Sunday.


Seattle 28 - Green Bay 22.



ThunderDan:

Read the article and do so open minded.

That article answers your questions.

[pbmax]

You have to be careful with McCarthy and his running numbers. He has previously expressed that the average per carry is paramount and bears watching. He has then said that the number of rushes is really telling and average isn't everything. He has also expressed the idea that he has to maintain an artificial balance anathema, because you have to be aware of the opponent, game situation and success rate.

Now he tells you he thought running it 20 times in the second half was a good target.


In McCarthy's defense, the team did have over 98 percent odds to win the game after Russell Wilson's fourth interception with about five minutes left in the game. Up until that point, McCarthy was fine.

First Half Runs: 16
Second Half Runs: 14

And that includes two drives, 6 plays with 5 runs, designed specifically to end the game and the last of those attempts was with less than 5 minutes on the clock. He wasn't run happy because of the target (see first half), but because he had the lead and a chance to close it out. He has done this before, many times. His end of game strategy needs a rethink, but its not a target number of runs that is the problem.

Its the drastic approach to milking the clock by running regardless of success rate or D alignment.

If I had to bet, that 20 carry figure is one of the common traits of winning teams that database divers pull out once in a while. It sounds impressive and a key to success until you realize that the reason all those carries came in the second half was because someone had a lead and were running our the clock. But that is not always the right approach.

And when he had to have a scoring drive in short order? They started winging the ball around again.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

Checking Packer sites it seems that Mike McCarthy has plenty to answer to after he gets back to the affairs of the Green Bay Packers as Head Coach.

I found this article by Tyler Dunne and don't recall seeing it here and in in case I'm posting it. The article raises interesting points and criticism of Mike McCarthy's way of sweeping things away. A fine talent if your there to please those really easy to please. Give them what they want to hear which is close to nothing.

Then there are those who expect accountability. Those who won't accept something little more than a shrug.

Reading this bothers me:

" ... a painfully passive plan from McCarthy was central to the unfathomable collapse. Given countless chances to dethrone the champs with one bold decision, he balked.

Unlike Bostick, McCarthy didn't point the finger at himself after the game. Regrets? No regrets.

"I don't regret anything," McCarthy said. "Hell, I expected to win the game. We were positioned to win the game." ..." Fr. LINK and Article below.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mike-mccarthy-should-get-plenty-of-blame-for-packers-loss-b99429413z1-289103671.html

Tyler Dunne | On the Packers

Mike McCarthy should get blame for Packers loss, too.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

I hope that Mike McCarthy see's this press conference because there is much contained in it for him to use for learning and growth.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Carroll-Belichick-Joint-SB49-Press-Conference/6d2d392d-c1f9-4af9-a3b1-f201b81f19fb

From Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick 'LIVE' Friday Jan. 30, 2015:

When asked what qualities he saw in Seahawks coach Pete Carroll that he wished he had, Belichick said the following:

"Well .... the thing that impresses me the most and the thing that, I guess, I would like do a better job of is just the way that his teams play for 60 minutes," he said. "They play from the opening kickoff to the final whistle, to the final gun. They play from the snap of the ball 'til the whistle blows at the end of the play."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000465764/article/belichick-pete-carrolls-teams-compete-relentlessly

Belichick: Pete Carroll's teams 'compete relentlessly'

By: Conor Orr ... Around The NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 30, 2015 at 12:02 p.m. .... Updated: Jan. 30, 2015 at 03:36 p.m.

[mraynrand]

Comment woodbuck27:

I hope that Mike McCarthy see's this press conference because there is much contained in it for him to use for learning and growth.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Carroll-Belichick-Joint-SB49-Press-Conference/6d2d392d-c1f9-4af9-a3b1-f201b81f19fb

From Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick 'LIVE' Friday Jan. 30, 2015:

When asked what qualities he saw in Seahawks coach Pete Carroll that he wished he had, Belichick said the following:

"Well .... the thing that impresses me the most and the thing that, I guess, I would like do a better job of is just the way that his teams play for 60 minutes," he said. "They play from the opening kickoff to the final whistle, to the final gun. They play from the snap of the ball 'til the whistle blows at the end of the play."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000465764/article/belichick-pete-carrolls-teams-compete-relentlessly

Belichick: Pete Carroll's teams 'compete relentlessly'

By: Conor Orr ... Around The NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 30, 2015 at 12:02 p.m. .... Updated: Jan. 30, 2015 at 03:36 p.m.

Are you saying McCarthy should emulate the Carroll and the Seahawks and play poorly for 55 minutes and try to win it all at the end? Or that he should emulate Belicheat and speak a string of tired aphorisms?

[woodbuck27]

Are you saying McCarthy should emulate the Carroll and the Seahawks and play poorly for 55 minutes and try to win it all at the end? Or that he should emulate Belicheat and speak a string of tired aphorisms?

I want Mike McCarthy to take advantage of his NFL MVP QB and go with the flow working with Aaron Rodgers in every game.

Game plan to best ensure winning any game (including play off games) and not make calls to merely protect a lead. Keep the pedal to the metal as Bilichick and Brady do for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots.

Not pull out his check mark cards and make that his central focus. NOT inform us after a loss that he met this goal and that one when all that added up to was a loss. To actually demonstrate accountability and not forgo responsibility and credibility by informing us that he wouldn't second gues his play calling.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9V6qjgnpK7JLfGgPrg-c2LRyF93qcImC7tIjzondiv7H_Kzf6kw

Mike McCarthy makes it too much about himself in one side of his mouth. It's 'about others' on the other side.


If he was a Native he might be named:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRID6X7Oh9wu8MXMWnShlQF9IFtS8rL2 cMEEvHmaaeyOGzRwopQSQ

[mraynrand]

take it to FYI, woodbuck. You wouldn't want to upset Red, he has tender sensibilities.

[pbmax]

Game plan to best ensure winning any game (including play off games) and not make calls to merely protect a lead. Keep the pedal to the metal as Bilichick and Brady do for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots.

Not pull out his check mark cards and make that his central focus. NOT inform us after a loss that he met this goal and that one when all that added up to was a loss. To actually demonstrate accountability and not forgo responsibility and credibility by informing us that he wouldn't second gues his play calling.

But he didn't meet his goal. And if we take something a coach says about his gameplan as literal truth after a contest, you will never get a clear picture of what the coach wants to do. No coach wants to reveal anything and they want to escape the attention having revealed as little as possible.

Notice that no one is quite sure what to make of Bevell/Carroll today, because both the blame for the play call. It was a sign of solidarity and a way to avoid discussing the plan and the process. Bevell went off script and tried to volunteer the WR as part of the team effort to lose, but that is the exception.

But I do agree that he is too eager too early to go exclusively to run with a lead. I think the injury to his QB exacerbated that tendency in this game. However, its hard to calculate how the entire offense struggling fed into this decision. Long before they ran 5 out of 6 downs, the offense had ground to a halt.

[theeaterofshades]

Ask the Browns (Current Ravens) about Marty Shottenheimer and how firing him after all the AFC Championship game losses got them to the Super Bowl at the time...

[woodbuck27]

But he didn't meet his goal. And if we take something a coach says about his gameplan as literal truth after a contest, you will never get a clear picture of what the coach wants to do. No coach wants to reveal anything and they want to escape the attention having revealed as little as possible.

Notice that no one is quite sure what to make of Bevell/Carroll today, because both the blame for the play call. It was a sign of solidarity and a way to avoid discussing the plan and the process. Bevell went off script and tried to volunteer the WR as part of the team effort to lose, but that is the exception.

But I do agree that he is too eager too early to go exclusively to run with a lead. I think the injury to his QB exacerbated that tendency in this game. However, its hard to calculate how the entire offense struggling fed into this decision. Long before they ran 5 out of 6 downs, the offense had ground to a halt.

The offense wasn't great all game but beginning in the 2nd Quarter and getting the magnifying glass out and looking at the play by play :

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015011800/2014/POST20/packers@seahawks#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap30 00000460724&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

2nd Qtr... Score Green Bay 13 - Seattle 0

8 plays and 11yds ...FG ; 3 plays and 23yds ...interception ; 6 plays and 12yds ...punt (End of 1st half)


3rd Qtr... Green Bay 16 - Seattle 0

3 plays and 9 yds ...punt ; 4 plays and 7 yds ... punt


End of 3rd and 4th Qtr... Green Bay 16 - Seattle 7

10 plays and 57 yds ...FG ; 3 plays and 6 yds ...punt ; 3 plays and a -ve 4 yds ... punt ; and finally

6 plays and 48 yds ... FG


End of regulation Green Bay 22 - Seattle 22.


That's 9 possessions and 46 plays for 168 yards ( a dreadful 3.652 Yds/Play Avg. ) and just 3 FG's (9 points).

[pbmax]

Yep, it didn't pick up until they needed the FG. And that might have been as much about Seattle backing off to prevent a TD as it was about the passing game suddenly coming to life.

[woodbuck27]

But he didn't meet his goal.

Checking the Play by Play:

The Packers had 13 running plays in each half (they ran the ball 26 times in total) plus the 12 yard scaramble late in the 4th qtr. by Aaron Rodgers.

[woodbuck27]

Then there is this flip side or should Mike McCarthy get all of the blame? He informs us the he's responsible for the loss but that's just Coach speak.

The overwhelming fact remains...that the collapse wasn't all on Mike McCarthy.

Aaron Rodgers wasn't happy with the play calling. He made that obvious after the shocking loss in Seattle. At times like this emotions run high and Aaron Rodgers is certainly emotional. People say things that later they regret and apologize for. A great example of that is the reaction in the Seattle dressing room after the loss in the Super Bowl; and why wasn't Marshawn Lynch tasked to seal the deal?

We're well aware that Aaron Rodgers is a big part of the Packer offensive play calling. That it's not all Mike McCarthy. We learned that late in this past season. Was that 'shared approach' completely shut down in Seattle? I know that they tried wrinkles that were never used in the past to deal with crowd noise.

Rodgers is the Packer and NFL MVP. Again...he's called his own plays and if he didn't like a call from the sideline couldn't he have changed it?

Other problems that need to be addressed:

** The premature celebration and lack of leadership in controlling all that emotion.

** The way the Packers defense was set (Dom Capers) and tightened up in the 4th quarter and in overtime are a part of this loss.

** ST's and Shawn Slocum. He's been buried so where I come from there's no sense disturbing that grave here or again.

[pbmax]

Checking the Play by Play:

The Packers had 13 running plays in each half (they ran the ball 26 times in total) plus the 12 yard scaramble late in the 4th qtr. by Aaron Rodgers.


“If you want to question my play calling … I’m not questioning it,” McCarthy said, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had has as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.”

Not including Rodgers, who was not going to have any called runs:

29 rushes for the game (21 Lacy, 5 Starks, 1 Cobb, 2 Kuhn). 16 in the first half, 13 in the second half.

[woodbuck27]

Not including Rodgers, who was not going to have any called runs:

29 rushes for the game (21 Lacy, 5 Starks, 1 Cobb, 2 Kuhn). 16 in the first half, 13 in the second half.

Looks like I missed a few...I'll check that .. Thanks.

I'm trying to establish that MM reached his check point of 20 running plays.

He reached his check point of 20 points.

That adds up to conservative thinking and a lost game. MM in my view calls a game to get a lead and protect that lead. He calls plays simply not to lose...like maybe? ... as he says:

The games are 'simply' fun to him. I cannot yet prove that.

Certainly ... Mike McCarthy's not like my choice as the finest Modern Era Head Coach and play caller Bill Belichick.

Belichick and especially with the competitively aggressive Tom Brady as his QB cannot score enough points in a game. New England plays offense to absolutely bury the other team. In other words:

The New England Patriots get a choke hold on the games score in their favor and absolutely 'choke out' the opposing team. A team may beat Belichick and Brady once; but to get that job done two times in a row, and in the same season .... is a formidable task. I cannot express just how many times I've observed Brady drive for a TD and immediately after a small to grander celebration. He'll be right back to the sidelines analyzing and working on the next TD.

A FG for Tom Brady is like slapping the school yard bully and running away. That 'Big Prick' is going to eventually try to beat the crap out of you.

[woodbuck27]

Writers vote Jim Caldwell NFC North Coach of the Year - ESPN

Comment woodbuck27:

Green Bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy finished second in the voting.

[mraynrand]

Writers vote Jim Caldwell NFC North Coach of the Year - ESPN

Comment woodbuck27:

Green bay Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy finished second in the voting.


https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/8/005/075/2ea/15775d2.jpg

[pbmax]

I'm trying to establish that MM reached his check point of 20 running plays.

He reached his check point of 20 points.


No he didn't. If you go back to that quote, he wanted 20 rushes in the second half. And as was made evident by the passing for a FG, he didn't just want to call running plays because that was the entire game plan. He wanted the lead and then he wanted to bury the clock by running it out.

From a first level analysis, that strategy is sound. Most winning teams have big running numbers in the second half while they have the lead and they want the clock to run. Remember the old chestnut about the Cowboys being 76-6 when Tony Dorsett rushes for 100 yards? That was because the Cowboys had second half leads in those games and they ran Dorsett to shorten the game and reduce the chance of turnovers.

But if you look closer, running can cost you and help the opposition if you are not getting first downs while running down the clock. And that describes what was happening to the Packer offense in the second half. It wasn't efficient enough and there was too much time left for 5 runs in 6 plays to bleed the clock far enough. It took an extraordinary set of circumstances, but it did happen, there was just too much time left.

[woodbuck27]

"I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.” ..." Mike McCarthy

I'll admit I missed that in my analysis.

Now that makes it worse staying with a goal plan of 20 runs in the 2nd half and limiting Aaron Rodgers available skills.

[pbmax]

"I came in here to run the ball. The one statistic I had as far as a target to hit was 20 rushing attempts in the second half, I thought that would be a very important target to hit for our offense.” ..." Mike McCarthy

I'll admit I missed that in my analysis.

Now that makes it worse staying with a goal plan of 20 runs in the 2nd half and limiting Aaron Rodgers available skills.

Or does it make it better because he realized that it wasn't going to work and stopped at 13 runs?

[Pugger]

No he didn't. If you go back to that quote, he wanted 20 rushes in the second half. And as was made evident by the passing for a FG, he didn't just want to call running plays because that was the entire game plan. He wanted the lead and then he wanted to bury the clock by running it out.

From a first level analysis, that strategy is sound. Most winning teams have big running numbers in the second half while they have the lead and they want the clock to run. Remember the old chestnut about the Cowboys being 76-6 when Tony Dorsett rushes for 100 yards? That was because the Cowboys had second half leads in those games and they ran Dorsett to shorten the game and reduce the chance of turnovers.

But if you look closer, running can cost you and help the opposition if you are not getting first downs while running down the clock. And that describes what was happening to the Packer offense in the second half. It wasn't efficient enough and there was too much time left for 5 runs in 6 plays to bleed the clock far enough. It took an extraordinary set of circumstances, but it did happen, there was just too much time left.

Perhaps our O linemen should try to hone their run blocking skills this summer so we can truly run out the clock with Lacy and Starks when we have a lead. If we could have run the ball better and got some first downs in the NFCC game we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[pbmax]

Perhaps our O linemen should try to hone their run blocking skills this summer so we can truly run out the clock with Lacy and Starks when we have a lead. If we could have run the ball better and got some first downs in the NFCC game we wouldn't be having this discussion.

There were two blown blocks on those two drives. I think Bach had one and Rodgers had another.

[woodbuck27]

Perhaps our O linemen should try to hone their run blocking skills this summer so we can truly run out the clock with Lacy and Starks when we have a lead. If we could have run the ball better and got some first downs in the NFCC game we wouldn't be having this discussion.

if we could have done just this (name it - one thing) or executed that (name it - one play) better on just one and certainly (pick them - any) two occasion (s) in the NFCC game.

We would have been playing New England in this last Super Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/brady-mcdaniels-smelled-blood-when-jeremy-lane-went-down/

Brady, McDaniels smelled blood when Jeremy Lane went down

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 4, 2015, 8:31 PM EST

Comment woodbuck27:

Why didn't Dom Capers, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers smell blood with obvious difficulties that Safety Earl Thomas (shoulder) and CB Richard Sherman (elbow) were having physically in the NFCC game?

Sherman was injured and operating with one arm for most of the 4th quarter.

The Green bay offense should have taken advantage of Sherman's state.

If they imagined he was faking it...test him early. Run right at him. Turn him inside and pass outside for chunk yardage through the air. Was he going to pick Aaron Rodgers with one arm?

[Joemailman]

Or does it make it better because he realized that it wasn't going to work and stopped at 13 runs?

What really stopped him from 20 rushes was going 3 and out 3 times, and 4 and out once in the second half. On the two 3 and outs with the score 19-7, he ran the ball 5 out of 6 plays.

[pbmax]

What really stopped him from 20 rushes was going 3 and out 3 times, and 4 and out once in the second half. On the two 3 and outs with the score 19-7, he ran the ball 5 out of 6 plays.

Yeah, but that last sequence was strictly his 4 minute football and 20 runs target or no, I expected it with 5 minutes to go.

If he really wanted 20 runs as his 2nd half with a lead game plan, then its even worse given the results of running in the 2nd half. Though he didn't have a ton of success in either kind of offense all game.

The giveaway, I think, is that when he needed to score, out came the passing game again.

[woodbuck27]

In my final analysis I find that Packers HC Mike McCarthy has to deal with most of the blame.

The Packers 'D' did a lot to hold Seattle's 'O' back and time and time again the Packers 'O' failed to take real advantage of that only scoring 1 TD and too often settling for 5 FG's. The finger might be pointed at players and execution. It's McCarthy's job to ensure that's not the case selecting better plays.

Mike McCarthy has to take the blame for an unacceptable ST effort in this game. McCarthy hung onto ST Coordinator Shawn Slocum far too long.

When the celebrations got anywhere close to too much on his sideline and after the Morgan Burnett pick and slightly over 5 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter. As the ultimate leader and HC he had to ensure that his players got a grip. There was to much game left for premature celebrations. MM has to condition his team to play all out for a full 60 minutes.

The Packer lead went south when the Packers best player Clay Matthews came out and was left out of the game with more than 7 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter. The Dom Capers 'D' was working with Matthews on the field and it tightened up when Clay Matthews was relaxing/celebrating and looking concerned on the sideline. Did he really need approximately a 20 minute rest in 'real time'? Blame his inactivity on the field on injury? He looked fine and he was in during OT. It might be suspected that MM was protecting Clay Matthews for the Super Bowl game? If so not the plan !

Mike McCarthy has to learn to go all out all the way balls to the walls. He has to overcome his conservative approach to calling plays and doing so to play not to lose. McCarthy has to play it to crush the opposition. Play it to win BIG every game just that. In the NFL you can never play it cute. Mike McCarthy has to learn and adapt that to his philoaophy. Belichick and Brady bury the opposition to absolutely ensure a big win. NFL football games is nothing about 'having fun'. It's all about domination and especially that with a dominating offense.

The bottom line is that we should hope for some change in Mike McCarthy. Many will defend him based on his record. This is a new day and next season the next of his career. Mike McCarthy has arguably the premiere QB in the NFL as the Packer leader.

The 2014 Season and the collapse in Seattle can 'only' be used for a better result in 2015. The man to spearhead that is Coach Mike McCarthy and utilizing every available means for more success.

GO PACKERS ! GO PACK GO !

[gbgary]

dal took play calling away from garrett and things improved greatly. maybe it's time for the same fix here.

hmmmm

[Joemailman]

hmmmm

Good to see MM still reads Packerrats.