Another Patriot Scandal??

[mraynrand]

i think that in true new english fashion, brady should be forced to wear a giant red "C" on the front of his jersey for the rest of his career

and before anyone thinks they're a cleaver smart ass (i'm looking at you rand), no, the captain "c" doesn't count

?? "C" for cleaver?

http://wholeheartedministries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/cleaver.jpg

[pbmax]

Should be scarlet letter 'D' all the way around.

Just imagine all the quality work and policy Roger has been part of implementing. I am sure no teams are taping and recording signals anymore either.

[KYPack]

I can't help but wonder that this is the first half of a negotiation.

I get the feeling the suspension will be reduced to 2 games to calm the NE fan base down a little.

Goodell's punishments have a habit of getting overturned.

[red]

?? "C" for cleaver?

http://wholeheartedministries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/cleaver.jpg

c for cheater

[red]

I can't help but wonder that this is the first half of a negotiation.

I get the feeling the suspension will be reduced to 2 games to calm the NE fan base down a little.

Goodell's punishments have a habit of getting overturned.

probably true, but i hope not

by the sound of it, he's been deflating balls for a long time, not just the one game. 4 games seems to light to me

[sharpe1027]

probably true, but i hope not

by the sound of it, he's been deflating balls for a long time, not just the one game. 4 games seems to light to me

Not to mentioned Brady lied and refused to cooperate in any meaningful manner. Meanwhile, the two guys that deflated the balls were suspended indefinitely, despite cooperating by turning over their cell phones. Well, maybe they will each get some book rights out of the whole thing, or go on the talk show circuit, so it may not be all bad.

[red]

What's not being mentioned is that Brady will also lose 2 million dollars in game checks for this 4 games

[Freak Out]

In the end none of this matters....they won.

[pbmax]

What's not being mentioned is that Brady will also lose 2 million dollars in game checks for this 4 games

Which Adam Schefter thinks will save the Patriots money (they were fined a million). But don't fines all go into a fund for NFL Charities?

[sharpe1027]

Which Adam Schefter thinks will save the Patriots money (they were fined a million). But don't fines all go into a fund for NFL Charities?

Fines do, but I doubt unpaid salary is considered a fine. So the Pats probably come out ahead on money.

[sharpe1027]

What's not being mentioned is that Brady will also lose 2 million dollars in game checks for this 4 games

And despite lying to his employer, he will collect many millions of dollars in the same year.

[red]

yeah, if brady reallyt did lie to the pats about the whole thing then they should be furious, instead they "have his back"

[Tony Oday]

Not a huge deal here that the Pats are starting the season without a starting QB, the Vikes have been doing it for years!

[Patler]

The stench surrounding the Patriots and their success under Belichick is growing.

I lost the link, but I had an article identifying six incidents of apparent out-and-out cheating by the Patriots under Belichick. I'm not naive. I expect everyone to push the boundaries of the rules, I accept that some will cross the boundary at times, intentionally or unintentionally. However, a strong pattern has developed of the Patriots doing whatever they think they can get away with, even though they know, or should knowit is unequivocally forbidden to do so.

Greatest coach? Nah, not in my opinion.
Most successful cheater? Perhaps.

[sharpe1027]

The stench surrounding the Patriots and their success under Belichick is growing.

I lost the link, but I had an article identifying six incidents of apparent out-and-out cheating by the Patriots under Belichick. I'm not naive. I expect everyone to push the boundaries of the rules, I accept that some will cross the boundary at times, intentionally or unintentionally. However, a strong pattern has developed of the Patriots doing whatever they think they can get away with, even though they know, or should knowit is unequivocally forbidden to do so.

Greatest coach? Nah, not in my opinion.
Most successful cheater? Perhaps.

Protect the shield!

[gbgary]

Not a huge deal here that the Pats are starting the season without a starting QB, the Vikes have been doing it for years!




:rs:

[Rastak]

http://yourteamcheats.com/


Packers 27 cheating points
Vikings 23

You lose.

:glug:

[pbmax]

How do they count Bountygate against them when the League says the rules don't prohibit it?

Also, I hate accumulation stats.

Packers 27 points/94 years = 0.28723404255319

Vikings 23/55 years = 0.41818181818182


Comparatively, Packers are a batch of nuns.

[Rutnstrut]

This whole thing is laughable. But anything to make Goodell look all powerful. So he ignores the PED's, and the shit that most of the thugs do. But goes on a powertrip for shit like this.

[pbmax]

This whole thing is laughable. But anything to make Goodell look all powerful. So he ignores the PED's, and the shit that most of the thugs do. But goes on a powertrip for shit like this.

I am no fan of the Commish, but how is he ignoring PEDs?

[Rutnstrut]

I am no fan of the Commish, but how is he ignoring PEDs?

You can't tell me they aren't widespread in the NFL. If they punished everyone, the NFL would make no money. Hell I would bet money that Green Bay's own Clay Mathews is a juicer, or for sure was. There is no way he went from as scrawny as he was, to what he did is with just hard work.

[pbmax]

You can't tell me they aren't widespread in the NFL. If they punished everyone, the NFL would make no money. Hell I would bet money that Green Bay's own Clay Mathews is a juicer, or for sure was. There is no way he went from as scrawny as he was, to what he did is with just hard work.

1. The NFL tests for Olympic list banned substances. I don't think they are widespread in the NFL with one exception. Compared to the testing regimen for recreational drugs, the PED testing is logical, random and pretty frequent.
2. Its possible the users are ahead of the testers, but that is true of every sport and not confined to Goodell's stewardship.
3. The one test they weren't running was HGH and that is scheduled to change soon. I am certain its used, though not like Bonds used it to reshape his head.
4. Of ALL the charges that can be made about testing, ignoring results isn't one I have seen. You don't offer evidence except -
5. Matthews body change. However, much or all of that happened in college, not under Goodell's control.

[Carolina_Packer]

You can't tell me they aren't widespread in the NFL. If they punished everyone, the NFL would make no money. Hell I would bet money that Green Bay's own Clay Mathews is a juicer, or for sure was. There is no way he went from as scrawny as he was, to what he did is with just hard work.

http://sharpclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/BeforeAfter-300x267.jpg

Clay might be doing Cenegenics!

[mraynrand]

What's not being mentioned is that Brady will also lose 2 million dollars in game checks for this 4 games

He can make that up in a day doing commercials for Pirelli Run Flat™ Tires.

[red]

LOL

you can't make this shit up. the pats set up a whole website to blast everything that ted wells found

one of the biggest claims?

the ball boy didn't refer to himself as the "deflator" in texts because he was the guy deflating the footballs, he called himself that because he was fat and trying to lose weight

wow

[sharpe1027]

LOL

you can't make this shit up. the pats set up a whole website to blast everything that ted wells found

one of the biggest claims?

the ball boy didn't refer to himself as the "deflator" in texts because he was the guy deflating the footballs, he called himself that because he was fat and trying to lose weight

wow

You can't make that type of shit up. I can honestly say I have never heard someone refer to their weight loss as deflation. Maybe it is an East Coast thing?

[Pugger]

yeah, if brady reallyt did lie to the pats about the whole thing then they should be furious, instead they "have his back"

Isn't the Patriot way? ;-)

[mraynrand]

LOL

you can't make this shit up. the pats set up a whole website to blast everything that ted wells found

one of the biggest claims?

the ball boy didn't refer to himself as the "deflator" in texts because he was the guy deflating the footballs, he called himself that because he was fat and trying to lose weight

wow

Flounder letting the air out of Dean Wormer's tires.

[red]

Flounder letting the air out of Dean Wormer's tires.

someone need to make a cartoon of a fat guy eating a hot dog while sitting on a football with air escaping the ball under all the weight

[Smidgeon]

Stuff like this keeps making the Patriots look worse and worse to me:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/roderick-mackinnon-is-scientific-co-founder-of-company-kraft-group-invested-in/

That being said, it's not going to change Brady being one of the best QBs of all time. It's not going to change Belichick having coached the team to four super bowl wins and two more appearances (I think only two more). It's not going to change the Patriots' place in history as one of the most successful franchises in the 2000s. It will change my personal opinion about their reputation, for whatever that's worth, and I will occasionally wonder how much of an edge the cheating actually got them.

But the entitlement of being a Patriot should end now. No more golden calf status. Unless we're talking post Moses coming down from the mountain and melting that thing into soup. Then we can commence the comparative again.

[mraynrand]

But the entitlement of being a Patriot should end now. No more golden calf status. Unless we're talking post Moses coming down from the mountain and melting that thing into soup. Then we can commence the comparative again.

This is the kind of verbal diarrhea that allows them to get away with cheating. "OK, you've snookered us again and again, but do it ONE MORE TIME and THEN we'll get REALLY mad! We mean it!"

[mraynrand]

"I've been obsessed with Tom Brady my entire life. Even though I was there, I have no idea how the balls deflated."

http://hosted.ap.org/photos/0/021b96c9-2517-4d1e-8b2f-d6ea105ccda5-small.jpg

[George Cumby]

Everyone's favorite pundit, Ask Vic, suggested vacating the SB trophy. I don't disagree. Talk about sending the message that Mom and Dad are pissed and they fucking mean business. Nobody would fuck with the balls after that.

[pbmax]

Karlos Dansby now trying to start a fire in the Patriots backyard.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/dansby-suspects-foul-play-from-2008-game-in-new-england/


In 2008, Dansby’s Cardinals faced the Patriots in New England during Week 16 of the 2008 season. The Patriots needed a win to keep their postseason hopes alive. And Dansby said the coach-to-headset communication system, which was first implemented by the NFL in 2008, didn’t function at Gillette Stadium during that snowy day in December.

“My headset was working fine, every game,” Dansby said. “Until the very last game of the year. We get in Foxboro, they couldn’t get my headset fixed, for nothing in the world.”

In that same game, Cardinals quarterback Matt Leinart also had trouble with his own headset. Leinart’s former backup at USC, Matt Cassel, three for 345 yards and three touchdowns in a 47-7 rout.

Leinart also had trouble in that game: http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/2008/12/21/20081221spt-cardsside.html

[vince]

Bretsky to the rescue?

[Guiness]

Have to say though, the next step (the appeal) doesn't pass the sniff test. Goodell has indicated that he will be handling the appeal.

The phrase "judge, jury and executioner" comes to mind.

I know the NFL doesn't much care about transparency, but this is a little much even for them. Troy Vincent may have made the initial decision on the punishment, but we know damn well Goodell had some influence, at the very least the punishment was run by him for final approval before being made official.

Now he decides if it will be changed? smh

[mraynrand]

Now he decides if it will be changed? smh

If Tom flashes him those pearly whites, he might just let him play opening weekend. But take the wife along, just in case.

[mraynrand]

Even Jordan had to 'retire' for a year.

[red]

Even Jordan had to 'retire' for a year.

it more recently came out that maybe stern had told him to take a year off, instead of being suspended for gambling publicly. he did say in his retirement speech, " Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back." he could have been facing a pete rose type situation

however i still think it had to do with his dad getting killed

i can tell you that i was in a room with MJ 2 or 3 weeks before his dad was killed, and he told us flat out with no hesitation, that he had many good years left, and retirement wasn't even something he was thinking about

there was also talk that he completely severed a tendon/ligament in his shooting hand. at his retirement presser, he had a large bandage on his. when asked about it, he said he cut his finger by accident with a faulty cigar cutter. he severed the tendon in his right index finger (the most important finger for shooting)

http://elbuenhabano.com/fra/noticias/noticias.php?id=43

so for one reason or another, something big changed his mind in a matter of weeks

and if not for that year and a half off, we would have seen what the superfans brought up after the first title. " we're not talking about a repeat, a three peat, or even a 4-peat, we're talking a minimum 8-peat"

[Pugger]

Have to say though, the next step (the appeal) doesn't pass the sniff test. Goodell has indicated that he will be handling the appeal.

The phrase "judge, jury and executioner" comes to mind.

I know the NFL doesn't much care about transparency, but this is a little much even for them. Troy Vincent may have made the initial decision on the punishment, but we know damn well Goodell had some influence, at the very least the punishment was run by him for final approval before being made official.

Now he decides if it will be changed? smh

In the last CBA the NFLPA signed on and agreed to let Goodell have the final say in situations like this so they can't now come and cry foul.

[red]

that they did

[gbgary]

well there ya go.

[red]

Have to say though, the next step (the appeal) doesn't pass the sniff test. Goodell has indicated that he will be handling the appeal.

The phrase "judge, jury and executioner" comes to mind.

I know the NFL doesn't much care about transparency, but this is a little much even for them. Troy Vincent may have made the initial decision on the punishment, but we know damn well Goodell had some influence, at the very least the punishment was run by him for final approval before being made official.

Now he decides if it will be changed? smh

it also “mysteriously happened to the lions at foxboro in 2006 on two drives with the lions were moving the ball well, also jack del rio said it happened to the jags in 2005 and in 2007 marvin lewis said the same thing happened to the bengals. all at foxboro

add those to the dansby complaint, and you have what really looks like another pattern of "trying to get an extra edge by bending the rules"

man, the whole franchise just looks like a giant bunch of cheats at this point

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/15/patriots-have-been-accused-of-tampering-with-communications-before/#comments

[gbgary]

man, the whole franchise just looks like a giant bunch of cheats at this point.

"more probable than not"

[denverYooper]

I keep wishing that this thread was named "Patriot Games"

[Rastak]

I keep wishing that this thread was named "Patriot Games"

Tom Clancy, God rest his soul.

[pbmax]

This is how Florio distinguishes himself, nice digging up of the Commissioner's nearly unlimited judicial power when it comes to issues of the integrity of the game. Predates the CBA where Personal Conduct Policy also granted him the same scope of power.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/commissioners-power-under-article-46-has-been-present-since-the-first-cba/

[red]

In the last CBA the NFLPA signed on and agreed to let Goodell have the final say in situations like this so they can't now come and cry foul.


that they did

and that they did not do apparently

according to the story pb linked, its been there since the 60's

we could always blame hippies or nixon?

[pbmax]

and that they did not do apparently

according to the story pb linked, its been there since the 60's

we could always blame hippies or nixon?

Or Ed Garvey, actually.

But this is the one area I think it makes the most sense for the Commissioner's office to hold all the judicial power. However, given his history, he will find a way to be complicated, confusing and unwilling to establish or follow a precedent.

[NewsBruin]

In college, they often go by the honor system: if one team loses connection with the pressbox, the other team doesn't use its headsets.

I was about to post that as an idea for the Competition Committee, but I figured the Pats' D would just have their feed mysteriously cut out at the end of the fourth and go no-huddle on offense.

"Geez, I don't know what happened. And with Radio Shack closed...."

[KYPack]

it also “mysteriously happened to the lions at foxboro in 2006 on two drives with the lions were moving the ball well, also jack del rio said it happened to the jags in 2005 and in 2007 marvin lewis said the same thing happened to the bengals. all at foxboro

add those to the dansby complaint, and you have what really looks like another pattern of "trying to get an extra edge by bending the rules"

man, the whole franchise just looks like a giant bunch of cheats at this point


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/15/patriots-have-been-accused-of-tampering-with-communications-before/#comments

I live in the Cincy area and know some media guys and ex-players. The incident with the Bengals happened. After that game, Marvin Lewis was sputtering mad and made comments privately that this incident was going to the league office and would not be swept under the rug.

By Tuesday, it was swept under the rug & Lewis refused to discuss it with any of his buddies in the media or anybody.

Teams like the Bengals, Jags (& Cardinals?) don't have the juice to oppose Kraft and his little gang.

[pbmax]

This guy makes Bud Selig seem ready for primetime.

Schefter, via PFT: Report: NFL, Patriots working to resolve #DeflateGate (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/18/report-nfl-patriots-working-to-resolve-deflategate/)

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 46s46 seconds ago
Report: Goodell, Kraft have spoken, hugged recently http://wp.me/p14QSB-9M8z

Words fail me.

[ThunderDan]

pb-

If either of these stories are true I am going to puke.

[pbmax]

pb-

If either of these stories are true I am going to puke.

I wonder what the common ground here is. While the League is probably not eager to have another lawsuit claiming that Roger as appeals court judge is not consistent with due process*, I have to believe their first concern is litigation from the member Team against the League. To reach a deal there, the obvious path is to leave Brady hanging in the wind (lessen team sanctions, leave Brady out for 3 or 4 games). But Kraft's public comments make that seem an unlikely stance for him; he wants a win and some kind of retraction.

Which leaves it to Roger to back off on BOTH New England and Tommy Boy. But even for Captain PR, that is going to be hard to swallow.


* There is a construct of due process that IS applied in private contracts separate from, less structured than and more forgiving than the Due Process clause in the Bill of Rights (5th Amendment! (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process)) that States and the Feb must abide by. It probably has a name but its escaping me at the moment.

[pbmax]

The NFL asked the Patriots to fire discipline the two equipment guys before the report was released.

What a colossal screw up. The original story is Schefter here: https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/957919684260673

but Deadspin has a summary with some conjecture here: http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-asked-the-patriots-to-make-themselves-look-guil-1705470790


ESPN’s Adam Schefter has an answer:

For those asking why Patriots suspended two employees if those two did nothing wrong, as New England claims: NFL asked Pats to suspend them prior to discipline being handed down, per a league source in New York. New England obliged with the NFL’s request.
This just raises a whole bunch of questions. Why would the NFL request an immediate suspension for these two rather than wait the five days until it sorted through and issued official punishments? (Was the league worried they would sneak into Gillette and deflate a bunch of balls?) And why on earth would the Patriots sign off on it?

The only way things make sense is if everyone had already decided that McNally and Jastremski (“turn in your badge and gun!”) would be useful patsies here, and take the fall for anyone of consequence. Perhaps the NFL believed shitcanning the two of them would show how seriously it took this case, and the Patriots believed this sign of cooperation would result in a slap on the wrist. Scapegoating peons is the American way, after all.

I have another explanation for the bold: canning the two equipment guys was a PR move designed to lessen the impact of the report (which the League had obviously read five days before its public release). When it didn't take and everyone was still screaming for heads to roll, Roger acted.

Admittedly, this theory is my pet belief about this clown. But I haven't seen another explanation that makes more sense.

[mraynrand]

I'll say it again: unless they vacate the SB win, it's all sound and fury.

[pbmax]

I'll say it again: unless they vacate the SB win, it's all sound and fury.

Agreed. Its like the debate about elite QBs; its a signal there really isn't anything to talk about. Its about polishing your CV.

[Freak Out]

Ballghazi.......lol. That alone has made all this BS worth it. What an absolute cluster fuck of an embarrassment.

[pbmax]

Roger wins a round:

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 3m3 minutes ago
Robert Kraft voices support for Roger Goodell, says he supports his role in discipline. Will this affect Tom Brady’s appeal?

NFLPA says the appeal is still going forward. No word on what placated Kraft.

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 17m17 minutes ago
Now, Nostra-Tanier predicts the Brady suspension will be reduced on appeal to 2 games.

[ThunderDan]

Roger wins a round:

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 3m3 minutes ago
Robert Kraft voices support for Roger Goodell, says he supports his role in discipline. Will this affect Tom Brady’s appeal?

NFLPA says the appeal is still going forward. No word on what placated Kraft.

Michael Tanier ‏@MikeTanier 17m17 minutes ago
Now, Nostra-Tanier predicts the Brady suspension will be reduced on appeal to 2 games.

Well that is nothing like what Scheftard reported regarding Kraft and working out a deal. I wonder if Kraft talked to some of his owner friends and they said shut up and take the fine?

[pbmax]

Well that is nothing like what Scheftard reported regarding Kraft and working out a deal. I wonder if Kraft talked to some of his owner friends and they said shut up and take the fine?

Well, there is still the Brady appeal. PFT is suggesting the phone records might make a surprise appearance.

There could have been an assurance that the suspension will be lessened.

Or, in the extreme win case, Roger might agree to step aside, which I doubt he will do.

But the main question remains, will Brady sue or will he accept the decision? This whole deal makes no sense unless the entire thing goes away.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 3m3 minutes ago
Expect Roger Goodell’s response to the NFLPA’s request to not include a change. He wants to look Tom Brady in the eye, hear his story.

Well it certainly worked with Ray Rice and his finance, so why not repeat the process?

[George Cumby]

I'll say it again: unless they vacate the SB win, it's all sound and fury.

+1

[Fritz]

I'll say it again: unless they vacate the SB win, it's all sound and fury.

I don't think suspending Brady for three or four games and taking away a first round pick is only sound and fury.

But I do agree that the whole thing has become an ass clown circus - stupid in the first place, for as Ras has pointed out Brady seemed to do better with the not-deflated footballs, and stupider yet for all this posturing and backtracking that seems to be going on.

Goodell could not do better at making himself look incompetent if he tried. But then again, maybe that's because if he tried to do that he'd fail because he's incompetent...

[sharpe1027]

The question they have to be asking themselves in New England is whether a handful of Super Bowl wins are worth a few draft picks, a million dollars, and a few games without your starting QB? Really tough call there.

While one could argue that they would have won their SBs regardless, the cheaters must have thought it was going to help them, or else why bother?

How about no playoff eligibility for a couple years as a punishment?

[red]

The question they have to be asking themselves in New England is whether a handful of Super Bowl wins are worth a few draft picks, a million dollars, and a few games without your starting QB? Really tough call there.

While one could argue that they would have won their SBs regardless, the cheaters must have thought it was going to help them, or else why bother?

How about no playoff eligibility for a couple years as a punishment?

everyone knows about the broncos and their super bowls, hardly anyone knows or even cares that they cheated to win, and got busted

fining a team a million bucks and taking away a pick or two isn't gonna stop anyone. you got to hit them harder like you said, maybe even take away wins and super bowls

[Rastak]

Man, keep it in perspective people. The Colts footballs were also down a similar amount of air. The NFL was, as usual, a bunch of witch hunting morons making a mountain out of a molehill.

They are just as at fault that it even came to this given the lax security and lack of league control around footballs.


Anyway, just another reason why Goodell the knucklehead should probably be booted. I am no Pats fan but after giving way to much thought than it deserves, the NFL screwed the pooch here.

[mraynrand]

Man, keep it in perspective people. The Colts footballs were also down a similar amount of air. The NFL was, as usual, a bunch of witch hunting morons making a mountain out of a molehill.

They are just as at fault that it even came to this given the lax security and lack of league control around footballs.


Anyway, just another reason why Goodell the knucklehead should probably be booted. I am no Pats fan but after giving way to much thought than it deserves, the NFL screwed the pooch here.

The issue is whether Brady and the Patriots intentionally cheated. The issues of scale and pressure levels are categorically different. If you don't care that they cheated, so be it, but I think it's a huge deal, especially since they have shown a repeated willingness to cheat.

[Rastak]

The issue is whether Brady and the Patriots intentionally cheated. The issues of scale and pressure levels are categorically different. If you don't care that they cheated, so be it, but I think it's a huge deal, especially since they have shown a repeated willingness to cheat.


I could probably fill 1000 pages with examples, but I don't have the time.

Not the same sport I know but I wasn't filled with outrage.....I don't watch baseball anymore, ever since 1994 but when the ole corked bat gets discovered I do not lose my mind.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXLmh1dG5fY

[mraynrand]

^^ I got it. You don't care about cheating. So be it. who knows, maybe the next time they get caught it'll eclipse your outrage threshold.

[Rastak]

^^ I got it. You don't care about cheating. So be it. who knows, maybe the next time they get caught it'll eclipse your outrage threshold.


I'm not for it. Should Jerry Rice be yanked from the hall of fame? He said he cheated.
There is indeed a threshold. Spygate was a big no-no. The Saints situation is sad because the NFL TOLD THEM to knock it off and it was ignored.


Panthers warmed up balls during an extremely cold game against the Vikings last year and both teams were warned as a reminder it was not cool so don't.

Should they have created a 4 month investigation against the Panthers for that?


Perspective people.

[sharpe1027]

I'm not for it. Should Jerry Rice be yanked from the hall of fame? He said he cheated.
There is indeed a threshold. Spygate was a big no-no. The Saints situation is sad because the NFL TOLD THEM to knock it off and it was ignored.


Panthers warmed up balls during an extremely cold game against the Vikings last year and both teams were warned as a reminder it was not cool so don't.

Should they have created a 4 month investigation against the Panthers for that?


Perspective people.

Why would they need an investigation? They didn't deny it on national TV. They didn't conduct their own field test and try to disprove it. After caught, they didn't setup a website continuing to deny it.

[Pugger]

It wasn't just the balls' psi that is the issue here. It is the lack of complete cooperation with the investigation that got Kraft and Brady in hot water over what seems to be a venial sin. I'll say this: if we ever hear of the Packers cheating with the balls' psi, a spygate-like situation or another Bountygate I'd have no problem with the league coming down hard on us like they did with NE.

[Cheesehead Craig]

NE doesn't care. They got their wins and SB trophy and the rest is just postering. The trophy won't be taken away, The good old boys club will change the public sentence and fans and talk shows will be outraged for a week. Then the ferret-on-cappucino like attention span of the collective public will focus on something else. Training camp comes around and suddenly fans just want to think about the coming season and "boy, they have a good shot this year don't they?". Then the usual talk about how useless and overpriced the exhibition games are, then the regular season comes and then the fans and media just focus on that and the Pats story comes up in week 1 but is then forgotten about by week 3 as everyone will just focus on the season itself, the injuries and latest stupidity of some player, and what coach is on the hotseat. This whole mess will just be a footnote in time.

[mraynrand]

There is indeed a threshold.

Deliberate. Obfuscation. Denial. Denial. Repeated Pattern. All these should be WAY beyond threshold, even if the infraction itself appears minor.

Yeah, and if Jerry Rice cheated to gain an advantage, repeatedly, throw his ass out of the HOF. Ask Pete Rose what he thinks.

[esoxx]

If they would have just conducted a dispersal draft following Spygate, as I had suggested, this whole mess would have been avoided.

[3irty1]

Its too late to vacate the superbowl win. They should have vacated the AFCC. Then we could have watched the Colts and Seahawks face off in the Freakishly Lucky bowl.

I think its worth differentiating Jerry Rice cheating from Belichick cheating if only because Rice didn't get caught. Its the difference between breaking a rule that wasn't enforced vs a rule that was. Hell, teams get away with cheating all the time on the field with cameras rolling if the officials blow a call. You've got to nail teams in the act to make others worry about the consequences. Dragging old timers like Rice out of Canton serves only to make an example out of opening your mouth after becoming a hall of fame cheater.

Even if its too late the give the Pats justice, the XLIX Lombardi Trophy should feature a flaccid ball on top.

[Pugger]

Its too late to vacate the superbowl win. They should have vacated the AFCC. Then we could have watched the Colts and Seahawks face off in the Freakishly Lucky bowl.

I think its worth differentiating Jerry Rice cheating from Belichick cheating if only because Rice didn't get caught. Its the difference between breaking a rule that wasn't enforced vs a rule that was. Hell, teams get away with cheating all the time on the field with cameras rolling if the officials blow a call. You've got to nail teams in the act to make others worry about the consequences. Dragging old timers like Rice out of Canton serves only to make an example out of opening your mouth after becoming a hall of fame cheater.

Even if its too late the give the Pats justice, the XLIX Lombardi Trophy should feature a flaccid ball on top.

If we removed all the players from the HOF who ever cheated the size of that hall would resemble an old fashioned phone booth.

[pbmax]

All right, now this is more like it.

Sports Illustrated ‏@SInow 57m57 minutes ago
Roger Goodell says the NFL did NOT ask the Patriots to suspend Jim McNally and John Jastremski http://on.si.com/1K2gtsW

Fight! Fight! FIGHT!

[Bossman641]

Man, keep it in perspective people. The Colts footballs were also down a similar amount of air. The NFL was, as usual, a bunch of witch hunting morons making a mountain out of a molehill.

They are just as at fault that it even came to this given the lax security and lack of league control around footballs.


Anyway, just another reason why Goodell the knucklehead should probably be booted. I am no Pats fan but after giving way to much thought than it deserves, the NFL screwed the pooch here.

My feeling is that this is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to the stunts the Patriots have been pulling. Between Spygate, all the stories of communication cutting out, and now this there is no doubt in my mind the NFL has warned them repeatedly to cut it out.

[Rastak]

It wasn't just the balls' psi that is the issue here. It is the lack of complete cooperation with the investigation that got Kraft and Brady in hot water over what seems to be a venial sin. I'll say this: if we ever hear of the Packers cheating with the balls' psi, a spygate-like situation or another Bountygate I'd have no problem with the league coming down hard on us like they did with NE.


I agree the lack of cooperation made a kick in the ass warranted on some level.

[Rastak]

My feeling is that this is just the tip of the iceberg in regards to the stunts the Patriots have been pulling. Between Spygate, all the stories of communication cutting out, and now this there is no doubt in my mind the NFL has warned them repeatedly to cut it out.

It's probably the tip of the iceberg of what alot of teams try and do. That's why the NFL probably should deal with this stuff behind closed doors.

[Guiness]

It's probably the tip of the iceberg of what alot of teams try and do. That's why the NFL probably should deal with this stuff behind closed doors.

At one time it was the general feeling that the NFL didn't crack down on NE more harshly for their shenanigans because they threatened to get vocal about what everyone else was up to. I'm still not sure that isn't why Belichick was 'exonerated'.

[Guiness]

A new report out by the American Enterprise institute that does a good job of explaining that the Wells report, and pretty much the whole way the NFL officials went about gathering 'information' was crap. The relevant bit:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/13/american-enterprise-institute-calls-ted-wells-report-unreliable/

AEI focuses on the conclusion that the Patriots tampered with air pressure in footballs prior to the AFC title game because the footballs used by the Patriots in the first half had a more significant drop in air pressure than the footballs used by the Colts in the first half. AEI rejects that finding based on two factors previously raised here: (1) NFL officials measured only four of the 12 Colts footballs at halftime due to supposed time constraints; and (2) the footballs used by the Colts experienced a likely increase in air pressure while in a warmer environment as the 11 footballs used by the Patriots were tested with two different gauges and then re-inflated.

All hail the ideal gas law!

I'm not saying the Patriots didn't at least try to cheat, just that this shows the evidence gathering was fatally flawed. I still think Brady should get his punishment for not cooperating, but the party who maybe shouldn't be punished is the team itself!

[smuggler]

Patriots operated under the assumption that they are above the 'law'. No one should be surprised when the league gets vindictive. There are 32 teams and they are supposed to be equal in the eyes of the 'law'.