Another Patriot Scandal??

[Bossman641]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12193345/nfl-investigating-whether-new-england-patriots-deflated-footballs-indianapolis-colts

Under inflated footballs

[pbmax]

Rodgers said he asks the equipment guys to over-inflate them to make them harder to handle. Seems to work at home.

[mraynrand]

This is very strange. I thought it was Stubby who had the sagging balls.

[mraynrand]

there might be some meat to this story after all

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/report-colts-had-inflation-concerns-in-november-matchup-with-patriots/

Belicheat is finding himself in a very hairy situation

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/ball-inflation-controversy-creates-a-real-mess-for-patriots-nfl/

[MadScientist]

At this point it is a matter of when and who will the league slam because of this. They won't do anything before the SB, but in light of bounty-gate a 1 year suspension would not be surprising for those involved. If it goes all the way up to Belicheat the Pats should lose multiple draft choices (#1, #2, and #3, or #1 this year and next) as well as the suspension.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rodgers said he asks the equipment guys to over-inflate them to make them harder to handle. Seems to work at home.

He said only about half the QBs prefer a softer ball.
I saw Joe Theisman on TV, for what it's worth, he did a test this morning and couldn't tell the difference. Of course Joe has no feeling in any of his extremities.

It seems like a pretty silly scandal, I don't mind if it is true.

[Bossman641]

The scandal itself is silly, but it raises questions as to what else the Patriots are up to. Everyone in the world knew the Patriots would go heavy with the run game with Blount after Jonas Gray destroyed the Colts in Indy. The question is, why even bother with the footballs then? I hope the Patriots get nailed.

[Bossman641]

Now the league is saying the officials checked the balls before the game and they were fine, meaning the Patriots took the air out after the refs inspected them.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game


11 of 12 Pats footballs underinflated


Updated: January 21, 2015, 2:19 PM ET

[Rutnstrut]

Yup underinflated footballs are exactly why the Pats blew away the Dolts, stupid fucking story and a non-issue. Next the Packers will be whining that the Seahawk fans get voice lessons, which unfairly helps them cheer louder.

[Bossman641]

I missed the section in the rulebook where it says cheating is allowed as long as you win by 30+ points.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The scandal itself is silly, but it raises questions as to what else the Patriots are up to.

flubber?

http://www.laughingplace.com/files/wdac2004b/WDAC000509.jpg

[TravisWilliams23]

Apparently someone on the Patriots sideline deflated the balls after the officials checked them out. NE was the superior team that day and nothing the Colts did was going to stop them so the question is who did it and why. Could have been some schmuck who overheard players saying how a low inflated ball is easier to throw or catch but it was done and it will be interesting to see who has to fall on the sword to keep this away from the head coach. By the way, I think MM had his balls deflated at half time vs the Seahawks and we know how that turned out.

[Freak Out]

Brady was paying off the ball boys. :)

[MadtownPacker]

To claim some kind of moral high ground over a game that grown men get paid more than most of us will earn in a lifetime is fucking stupid. All I can say is I wish M3 wanted to win that bad.

Thread deflated.

[pbmax]

The NFL gets more and more like NASCAR every year.

[hoosier]

What is an appropriate penalty for deflating balls in the championship game? Fine? Draft picks?

The only possible punishment for this is castration.

[Rastak]

I missed the section in the rulebook where it says cheating is allowed as long as you win by 30+ points.

No offense but as mentioned previously Rodgers ADMITTED they over-inflate the balls......should the Packers get the same penalty as anything the Pats get?


This is really minor, the only concerning thing is these dudes seem to have a pattern of bending the rules and getting busted.

[Bretsky]

I wish we deflated the dam balls and won; this is much about nothing

Maybe if the balls were deflated Bostick would not have tried catching a ball with his helmet

I wish we had Hoody Genius the last five minutes; we'd be in the SB after he buried Seattle with some first downs...regardless of the deflation of the balls

[mraynrand]

flubber?

http://www.laughingplace.com/files/wdac2004b/WDAC000509.jpg

LOL. "Nothing to see here, folks. Just a normal game. Nothing suspicious at all. No need for any investigation of any kind" - LeRoy Butler

[Bossman641]

No offense but as mentioned previously Rodgers ADMITTED they over-inflate the balls......should the Packers get the same penalty as anything the Pats get?


This is really minor, the only concerning thing is these dudes seem to have a pattern of bending the rules and getting busted.

I believe Rodgers likes them over-inflated and then relies on the refs to check and request changes. That's a little different than having them checked and approved and then making changes after the fact.

[pbmax]

nm

[sharpe1027]

The score of the game should have no bearing on the punishment. I say force the Patriots to provide recordings of their entire practices to all 32 teams and to play with greased footballs while on offense.

[MadtownPacker]

What a bunch of pussies crying about balls not being big enough.

[woodbuck27]

They have a lot of balls pointing at balls !

[denverYooper]

The twitter tellsss me that Belichick denied knowledge of Ballghazi. Bill Simmons is collecting evidence to support his theory that this might be Brady's last year with the Pats.

Bill Simmons ‏@BillSimmons 6m6 minutes ago
Also - the fact that Belichick did the whole "wasn't me, ask Tom" thing makes me feel even worse about Brady's iffy contract status.

[mraynrand]

Bill Simmons is collecting evidence to support his theory that this might be Brady's last year with the Pats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_50-gOeBilc

Warning: 80's hair

[Guiness]

The whole thing is kind of nuts. Ball inflation pressure? It is really hard to fathom how it matters, but I guess there's a rule, and the point is, they broke it. They didn't find a way around the rule, or challenge its validity, they just flat out break them, which I do see as the bigger problem.

One question I have: is this another bounty-gate? Are many teams doing it, but the NFL is not interested in looking to see?

[Fosco33]

Makes me wonder - are over inflated balls harder to catch (and throw) as Arod points out. Wonder how much that would go into the drops we sometimes see?

As there are 'K' balls for kicking - Bostick has no more excuses.

[Guiness]

Posts over at PFT about this are pretty hilarious - a lot of mud slinging at the Colts, must be a lot of Baltimore fans over there! Among the claims:

lost games on purpose to get the #1 pick in the draft,
caught pumping fake crowd noise into the stadium,
changed rules league wide to benefit their own team, and
turned off all cold water and cranked up the heat in the visitors locker room during a playoff game knowing the opposition had many players with the flu

[pbmax]

Did they paint the visiting locker rooms pink?

[Guiness]

Did they paint the visiting locker rooms pink?

"No man could move his bowels in here!"
- Joel, touring a pink bathroom

[Bossman641]

The whole thing is kind of nuts. Ball inflation pressure? It is really hard to fathom how it matters, but I guess there's a rule, and the point is, they broke it. They didn't find a way around the rule, or challenge its validity, they just flat out break them, which I do see as the bigger problem.

One question I have: is this another bounty-gate? Are many teams doing it, but the NFL is not interested in looking to see?

That's what I'm interested in. You would think that there would be a decent of teams doing something with the balls, but for the Colts to bring it up twice has me thinking otherwise.

[pbmax]

That's what I'm interested in. You would think that there would be a decent of teams doing something with the balls, but for the Colts to bring it up twice has me thinking otherwise.

Of course they all do it, Manning and Brady asked the NFL to let them do it. Each team preps their own footballs for their offense, which was a change from the previous policy.

The question is how many are dumb enough or arrogant enough to go so far off spec that someone (more than one apparently) noticed?

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/troy-aikman-patriots-punishment-should-exceed-saints-bounty-punishment/

Troy Aikman: Patriots punishment should exceed Saints bounty punishment

Posted by Josh Alper on January 22, 2015, 3:12 PM EST

" ... Aikman made an appearance on Sportsradio 1310 The Ticket on Thursday and said he believed that it is “obvious” quarterback Tom Brady was involved in deflating the footballs. ..."

Comment woodbuck27:

Troy Aikman's stance here surprizes me.

[pbmax]

What would Nolan Nawrocki say of a QB prospect who said, sure, I may have bent some rules and gotten into trouble, but its not like I am a member of ISIS?

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/22/7874643/tom-brady-isis-video

[woodbuck27]

Posts over at PFT about this are pretty hilarious - a lot of mud slinging at the Colts, must be a lot of Baltimore fans over there! Among the claims:

lost games on purpose to get the #1 pick in the draft,
caught pumping fake crowd noise into the stadium,
changed rules league wide to benefit their own team, and
turned off all cold water and cranked up the heat in the visitors locker room during a playoff game knowing the opposition had many players with the flu

This has gone more viral on PFT.Com than the Brett Favre 'fagish penis envy malaise' back in the day @ Packerrats.

Before the backlash is done the Kraft family might have to sell the franchise.

[Carolina_Packer]

Here's a late music entry for the Super Bowl half-time in honor of the Patriots:

http://www.homoculture.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Air_Supply_Greatest_Hits.jpg

[Rastak]

I believe Rodgers likes them over-inflated and then relies on the refs to check and request changes. That's a little different than having them checked and approved and then making changes after the fact.

I will grant you the slight distinction. One is slightly more underhanded, although the intent is the same for both. I still think this is pretty minor, and I'm no Pats fan.

[Pugger]

No offense but as mentioned previously Rodgers ADMITTED they over-inflate the balls......should the Packers get the same penalty as anything the Pats get?


This is really minor, the only concerning thing is these dudes seem to have a pattern of bending the rules and getting busted.

Evidently an under-inflated ball is easier to throw/grip and catch in cool wet conditions like we saw in the AFCC game. This is so stupid of NE if indeed they are found guilty. Did they think nobody would find out? I really wonder if an over-flated ball would be an advantage. And the league is aware of what Rodgers said but as far as we know the league isn't investigating that. I don't know if there is a limit on over-inflating the footballs.

This misdeed seems minor but I find the fact that NE has this history of bending the rules and outright cheating disturbing. I have a feeling so does Goodell and company. It will be interesting to see what punishment is doled out after the SB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/240/MI0002240250.jpg

NO WAY you thought of that joke yourself.

Where did you steal it from, Carolina?

[sharpe1027]

I will grant you the slight distinction. One is slightly more underhanded, although the intent is the same for both. I still think this is pretty minor, and I'm no Pats fan.

The intent in one is to provide balls that meet the requirements so they are approved and intentionally deceive the refs knowing that you can then do whatever you want to the balls.

The intent in the other is to get as close as possible to the upper amount the refs will allow.

[Bossman641]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7_dugSCYAALb42.jpg:large

[3irty1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7_dugSCYAALb42.jpg:large

That crop is so bad it started a famine.

[denverYooper]

That crop is so bad it started a famine.

If I could give this more than one rep, I would

[Cheesehead Craig]

Belichick saying he didn't know about the rule is hysterical. This from the guy who brought out the 4 OL formation and told others they need to read the rulebook to see it was legal.

Is it cheating? Yes. They violated the rules.

Is Goodell going to do something other than a slap on the wrist fine? No. He sure as hell won't take away draft picks as some want him to.

[Guiness]

The intent in one is to provide balls that meet the requirements so they are approved and intentionally deceive the refs knowing that you can then do whatever you want to the balls.

The intent in the other is to get as close as possible to the upper amount the refs will allow.

Maybe it's homerism, but I agree. From what Rodgers said, he puts in as much air as he thinks he can get away with, then gives the balls to the refs. If they say it's ok, then it's ok. Brady doctored (or had them doctored) after they passed inspection.

All of this is pretty comical, and the timing of it is part of that. In reality, the Patriots should be punished. Now. The league has 2 weeks to sort it out, plenty of time. Fine Brady or the team, call him into the commisioners office to explain, whatever they decide. But, with the SB coming up, they just can't, there was an article on PFT that said as of 4 days after the game, the league hadn't even contacted Brady to discuss it :roll:
This is looking an awful lot like the way they handled the Rice thing, bury their head in the sand, and ignore the evidence that is there for the taking, and hope it all goes away

[Carolina_Packer]

NO WAY you thought of that joke yourself.

Where did you steal it from, Carolina?

No stealing involved, or would that be the Patriot way? Thanks, HH.

[Joemailman]

Maybe it's homerism, but I agree. From what Rodgers said, he puts in as much air as he thinks he can get away with, then gives the balls to the refs. If they say it's ok, then it's ok. Brady doctored (or had them doctored) after they passed inspection.

All of this is pretty comical, and the timing of it is part of that. In reality, the Patriots should be punished. Now. The league has 2 weeks to sort it out, plenty of time. Fine Brady or the team, call him into the commisioners office to explain, whatever they decide. But, with the SB coming up, they just can't, there was an article on PFT that said as of 4 days after the game, the league hadn't even contacted Brady to discuss it :roll:
This is looking an awful lot like the way they handled the Rice thing, bury their head in the sand, and ignore the evidence that is there for the taking, and hope it all goes away

Is there any evidence that the Patriots deflated the balls after the referees inspected them? Isn't it possible that the officials failed to detect that the balls were under-inflated when they inspected them? After all, an official would have handled the ball after every Patriot offensive play and apparently didn't notice anything wrong.

[Bossman641]

Is there any evidence that the Patriots deflated the balls after the referees inspected them? Isn't it possible that the officials failed to detect that the balls were under-inflated when they inspected them? After all, an official would have handled the ball after every Patriot offensive play and apparently didn't notice anything wrong.

There was a report the other day that the officials had inspected the balls 2 hours or so prior to the game and all the balls were within the threshold at that time.

[woodbuck27]

Is there any evidence that the Patriots deflated the balls after the referees inspected them? Isn't it possible that the officials failed to detect that the balls were under-inflated when they inspected them? After all, an official would have handled the ball after every Patriot offensive play and apparently didn't notice anything wrong.


Evidently it's near impossible to determine a difference of 2 psi in a ball just by handling it.

So now balls must be measure for correct pressure just like stick blade curves have to follow a specified limitation in the NHL.

This article is good;

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2339004-opposing-qb-on-deflategate-i-think-this-has-been-going-on-all-year

It looks to me like the pat's pay some price here.

[mraynrand]

Evidently it's near impossible to determine a difference of 2 psi in a ball just by handling it.

The NFL really needs to hire some people next year who are skilled at handling balls, to know the inflation difference, just by the way they feel in your hands - their softness/turgidity; the smoothness or roughness, their delicacy. I recommend Pete Schweddy:



https://screen.yahoo.com/delicious-dish-npr-snl-skits/

[sharpe1027]

The whole thing is kind of nuts. Ball inflation pressure? It is really hard to fathom how it matters, but I guess there's a rule, and the point is, they broke it. They didn't find a way around the rule, or challenge its validity, they just flat out break them, which I do see as the bigger problem.

One question I have: is this another bounty-gate? Are many teams doing it, but the NFL is not interested in looking to see?
The thing is, if it doesn't matter why the rule and why the effort to get around the rule?

[Joemailman]

Andrew Luck on how he felt after the loss.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/BCAF2DAA951169938239915020288_23c3c5b10df.5.1.2208 746491084025080.mp4?versionId=l8Pv8PjaRDs2FdKWjrmR Y.11dpx84hVu

[red]

the nfl doesn't want to dig too deep into this imo. the end result is probably that brady ordered the balls to be deflated, which like they mentioned on PFT and on espn radio, could very well end in a suspension

imagine the super bowl without its biggest star.

they also mentioned on the radio, that theres starting to be the feeling that this could be brady's last game

[Freak Out]

This is getting stupid. The NFL needs to squash this now.

[Joemailman]

This is getting stupid. The NFL needs to squash this now.

I don't see them saying much of anything until after the Super Bowl, unless they determine the Patriots did nothing wrong. I can't see the NFL coming out and saying before the Super Bowl that one of the participants cheated to get there.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I don't see them saying much of anything until after the Super Bowl, unless they determine the Patriots did nothing wrong. I can't see the NFL coming out and saying before the Super Bowl that one of the participants cheated to get there.

This. Nothing is going to happen of any consequence before the game. Goodell's not going to suspend Brady or Belicheat before the SB. The outrage from ESPN.. err I mean the NE area would be enormous and make the SB even more tainted.

[Bossman641]

Agreed. The fact that the league hasn't interviewed a single player yet says it all.

[woodbuck27]

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/12170/brett-keisel-new-england-patriots-will-try-to-win-at-all-costs

Brett Keisel: New England Patriots will try to 'win at all costs'

January, 23, 2015 12:15 PM ET

By: Scott Brown | ESPN.com

Comment woodbuck27:

So where is the NFL Officially on this matter? Right here after five days:

In slow as cold molasses mode and with a Law Firm involved. Can't the NFL simply take the facts as they were discovered and interpret that Vs the RULE on the proper inflation of balls and punish who's deemed guilty? ie The new England Patriots.

To pin this on any individual will be difficult.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-makes-statement-about-deflate-gate-investigation-192128202.html

"...."The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night. Over the past several days, nearly 40 interviews have been conducted ...[B](but apparently not with Tom Brady) , but gave minimal details on what it was told. The league did say the officials inspected the Patriots' footballs before the game per the rules and they were compliant with the rules, which clears up that key point. blah ...blah blah........ blah....blah "

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

I saw this report on TSN this morning. Getting to the science of Deflate-gate this video covers all that, Did under inflation of the ball in the opening half in any way have any real influence on that game. Even the opposition Indy players say NO. That game pure and simple was about New England dominance.

In any case here is the science of the matter and might prompt the question. Why all the rage let the best play football.:

http://www.tsn.ca/video/sport-science-deflate-gate-1.188711

SPORTS SCIENCE: Deflate-gate

[pbmax]

This is getting stupid. The NFL needs to squash this now.

Thats how they knew there was a problem in the first place.

[pbmax]

A radio show (certainly not the best source of information) did a test of footballs inflated 2 psi lower than the rec. They said it was easy to detect and easier to squeeze the ball. This make sense to me without doing an experiment on my own.

Advanced NFL Stats has numbers on the incredible non-fumbling of the Patriots on their home turf (not sure how this jives with each team preparing the the footballs for the offense unless the ball deflation operation is conducted in the bowels of the home stadium and not on the sideline).

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

[Cheesehead Craig]

Comment woodbuck27:

I saw this report on TSN this morning. Getting to the science of Deflate-gate this video covers all that, Did under inflation of the ball in the opening half in any way have any real influence on that game. Even the opposition Indy players say NO. That game pure and simple was about New England dominance.

In any case here is the science of the matter and might prompt the question. Why all the rage let the best play football.:

http://www.tsn.ca/video/sport-science-deflate-gate-1.188711

SPORTS SCIENCE: Deflate-gate

The rules are there for a reason. Just because one doesn't like a rule doesn't mean they get to ignore or violate it.

[woodbuck27]

The rules are there for a reason. Just because one doesn't like a rule doesn't mean they get to ignore or violate it.

The point of your post?

[KYPack]

A radio show (certainly not the best source of information) did a test of footballs inflated 2 psi lower than the rec. They said it was easy to detect and easier to squeeze the ball. This make sense to me without doing an experiment on my own.

Advanced NFL Stats has numbers on the incredible non-fumbling of the Patriots on their home turf (not sure how this jives with each team preparing the the footballs for the offense unless the ball deflation operation is conducted in the bowels of the home stadium and not on the sideline).

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

This is a pretty wicked analysis.

A bit from that article...

The 2014 Patriots were just the 3rd team in the last 25 years to never have lost a fumble at home! The biggest difference between the Patriots and the other 2 teams who did it was that New England ran between 150 and 200 MORE plays this year than those teams did in the years they had zero home fumbles, making the Patriots stand alone in this unique statistic.

[gbgary]

much to-do about nothing. teams should be able to have the ball(s) the way they want...that or completely take away that duty and put it in the hands of the league/officials.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The point of your post?
You posted "why all the rage and let the best play football". I gave a response. Pretty straightforward.

[woodbuck27]

Hoody genius just had another press conference and shed more light on the matter.

In this effort he gives the NFL all they really need to simply let this matter go.


Here it is:

Handling the ball caused (friction) to temporarily increase the air pressure as it was measured at game time.

Two hours later the balls cool and correspondingly the balls interior pressure (psi) drops.

Pressure and Temperature being directly proportional.



It's over it's done ...

Troy Aikman should have stood mum.

[pbmax]

Hoody genius just had another press conference and shed more light on the matter.

In this effort he gives the NFL all they really need to simply let this matter go.


Here it is:

Handling the ball caused (friction) to temporarily increase the air pressure as it was measured at game time.

Two hours later the balls cool and correspondingly the balls interior pressure (psi) drops.

Pressure and Temperature being directly proportional.



It's over it's done ...

Troy Aikman should have stood mum.

All 12 of the Colts balls were at proper pressure and played in the same, not so cold temperature (51 degrees at gamete) in the same game at the same time. Measured at the same time.

[pbmax]

[WUSA9] Let’s assume that each ball was inflated to the minimum pressure required to meet the NFL rules regarding proper inflation: 12.5 psi. We convert psi (English) to pascals (Metric), which comes out to 86,184.5 Pa and assume room temperature (68ºF/20ºC) which converts to 293.15 K (Kelvin, the Metric equivalent). We now have,

86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K = p2 / T2.

We’re down to two variables. But we also know the temperature on the field at the start of the game was reported as 51ºF/10.6ºC (283.15 K). Plug it in…

86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K = p2 / 283.15 K

Neat! Look, we’re left with a solvable equation with one variable, p2, which is the pressure of the air inside the ball at game time! Let’s solve this riddle…

Isolate the lone variable:

(86,184.5 Pa / 293.15 K) * 283.15 K = p2
83,244.6 Pa = p2 —> 12.1 psi

83,244.6 Pa is 12.1 psi, so, according to our calculations, the balls could have been under-inflated by 0.4 psi on the field. This makes sense given the very first equation, which shows that a decrease in temperature would force a decrease in pressure, assuming the same volume of air in the football.

Temperature drop accounts for .4 PSI. The balls were 2 PSI under inflated. And this assumes the refs did not wait, and measure the PSI immediately after the game out on the field.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/science-is-all-like-ooh-ooh-we-can-explain-deflate-gate-with-our-magic/

[sharpe1027]

much to-do about nothing. teams should be able to have the ball(s) the way they want...that or completely take away that duty and put it in the hands of the league/officials.

Yes. They could play with zero psi to stop all throwing attacks. Why inflate them at all?

[TravisWilliams23]

All 12 of the Colts balls were at proper pressure and played in the same, not so cold temperature (51 degrees at gamete) in the same game at the same time. Measured at the same time.

PB that's what I was hoping one of the reporters would have asked Hoody at the presser. It seems an obvious question to what Hoody was throwing out there as a possible reason for the low pressure in NE's footballs.
Plus, why the hell is the league allowing the Patriots to basically investigate themselves on this one?

[mraynrand]

You posted "why all the rage and let the best play football". I gave a response. Pretty straightforward.

not when you consider the source

[woodbuck27]

You posted "why all the rage and let the best play football". I gave a response. Pretty straightforward.

As a fan I'm interesting in something better than 'hating on Bill Bilichick, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots' As a FAN The NFL's positions on rules broken or not are way beyond my concern. Why? it's simply become such a mess in that arena and getting worse. The rules are simply too complicated.

It seems to me that the NFL has opened up this can of worms and now it has to get out of it. How it arrives there is the real story.

I'd simply RULE that in the future the balls are all checked on some random basis. That all teams are well aware that this will be done and the results used to determine any future penalty.

Again as I posted earlier. For now it's about control and focusing on playing football.

Here's the NFL Players Association's stance on this.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/24/matthew-slater-nflpa-has-instructed-patriots-players-to-reserve-comment-on-deflation-investigation/

Matthew Slater: NFLPA has “instructed” Patriots players to “reserve comment” on deflation investigation

Posted by Mike Wilkening on January 24, 2015, 2:28 PM EST

[woodbuck27]

https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/deflated-football.jpg?w=750

Test ... Testing ... Take One !

Does this ball look deflated to you?

Now for the real test:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGZlAoZa2XuE7B2DqvUDmN9jQSBuoAt qORravpxVctwVyNMMp1

Does this ball look deflated to you?

What does that suggest?

[gbgary]

Yes. They could play with zero psi to stop all throwing attacks. Why inflate them at all?

wow...you missed that by a mile. whoever the qb, if he likes the ball at a particular pressure let him have it the way. if brady likes it at 10.5 and flacco likes it at 11.25 who gives a crap? no one has an "advantage".

[woodbuck27]

wow...you missed that by a mile. whoever the qb, if he likes the ball at a particular pressure let him have it the way. if brady likes it at 10.5 and flacco likes it at 11.25 who gives a crap? no one has an "advantage".

That's bang on !

The 'Keep It Simple' Rule.

It assists digestion.

[ThunderDan]

wow...you missed that by a mile. whoever the qb, if he likes the ball at a particular pressure let him have it the way. if brady likes it at 10.5 and flacco likes it at 11.25 who gives a crap? no one has an "advantage".

Why not let each team decide on the length and width of their home field like baseball?

There is a rule book that all trams must follow. Seems simple to me.

[Cheesehead Craig]

As a fan I'm interesting in something better than 'hating on Bill Bilichick, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots' As a FAN The NFL's positions on rules broken or not are way beyond my concern. Why? it's simply become such a mess in that arena and getting worse. The rules are simply too complicated.

It seems to me that the NFL has opened up this can of worms and now it has to get out of it. How it arrives there is the real story.

I'd simply RULE that in the future the balls are all checked on some random basis. That all teams are well aware that this will be done and the results used to determine any future penalty.

Again as I posted earlier. For now it's about control and focusing on playing football.

Here's the NFL Players Association's stance on this.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/24/matthew-slater-nflpa-has-instructed-patriots-players-to-reserve-comment-on-deflation-investigation/

Matthew Slater: NFLPA has “instructed” Patriots players to “reserve comment” on deflation investigation

Posted by Mike Wilkening on January 24, 2015, 2:28 PM EST

I did not "hate on Brady, Belichick, or the Pats" in my post and there's no way to even infer that. Your original post made it sound like you think that this rule is not a big deal and thus breaking it is meaningless. The rule is there for a reason, and all the teams have to abide by it. Again, just because one does not like a rule does not give one permission to break it.

The NFL didn't create this mess, the Patriots did. I just don't think the NFL is going to do a good job in handling it.

[Pugger]

wow...you missed that by a mile. whoever the qb, if he likes the ball at a particular pressure let him have it the way. if brady likes it at 10.5 and flacco likes it at 11.25 who gives a crap? no one has an "advantage".

Under-inflated balls are easier for QBs, WRs and RBs to handle than firmer balls in inclement weather. If NE is using a football with a lower psi than their opponent you don't think the Pats would have an advantage? Even if the misdeed seems insignificant to us it was worth it to NE to break the rules. They must've felt it was worth getting caught to get a competitive advantage or else why bother?

[Pugger]

Double post. :oops:

Why can't we delete posts?

[woodbuck27]

I did not "hate on Brady, Belichick, or the Pats" in my post and there's no way to even infer that. Your original post made it sound like you think that this rule is not a big deal and thus breaking it is meaningless. The rule is there for a reason, and all the teams have to abide by it. Again, just because one does not like a rule does not give one permission to break it.

The NFL didn't create this mess, the Patriots did. I just don't think the NFL is going to do a good job in handling it.

Whoa !

I didn't want to even infer that you were hating. There's a lot of that going on in regards to this matter all the same.

Your opinion is your right. Good for you.

[sharpe1027]

wow...you missed that by a mile. whoever the qb, if he likes the ball at a particular pressure let him have it the way. if brady likes it at 10.5 and flacco likes it at 11.25 who gives a crap? no one has an "advantage".

No I think you missed the point. So a team that has a crap qb going up against a HoF QB, but they have a good running game. What is to stop them from putting so little air that you can't even throw a spiral?

[gbgary]

No I think you missed the point. So a team that has a crap qb going up against a HoF QB, but they have a good running game. What is to stop them from putting so little air that you can't even throw a spiral?

lol...why would a team do that to their own qb. again...each team uses their own footballs set at whatever pressure their own qb wants.

[Joemailman]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/bill-nye-says-bill-belichick-made-no-sense/




Another group based in Pittsburgh that includes brainiacs from Carnegie Mellon (somehow, I was admitted there and graduated with a degree a metallurgical engineering and materials sciences and a degree in engineering and public policy) claims that the conditions of the AFC title game would have caused a significant drop in air pressure.

“We took 12 brand new authentic NFL footballs and exposed them to the different elements they would have experienced throughout the game.” said Thomas Healy, founder of HeadSmart Labs and a masters student in mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon. “Out of the twelve footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions.”

As explained by the group that conducted the simulation: “During testing, twelve brand new footballs were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree Fahrenheit room. This was to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50 degree Fahrenheit environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game. In addition, the footballs were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.”

It’s unclear whether the footballs were placed in a wet, 50-degree environment immediately after testing for a full 135 minutes before kickoff or whether they waited until just before kickoff to move the footballs to the simulated game conditions. It’s also unclear whether the various balls were exposed to the same external forces to which a dozen footballs used by an NFL offense would be exposed when rotated through the first half of a game. It’s also unclear whether re-testing of the footballs was done following the precise duration of the first half of the Colts-Patriots game.

[gbgary]

Why not let each team decide on the length and width of their home field like baseball?

There is a rule book that all trams must follow. Seems simple to me.

don't get silly now. yes there's a rule now that they should have adhered too. I'm saying it's a silly rule.

[pbmax]

Who keeps a room at 75 degrees?

Also not explained, how did the magic Colts football maintain their pressure?

[Rutnstrut]

Who keeps a room at 75 degrees?

Also not explained, how did the magic Colts football maintain their pressure?

Were the Colts footballs tested? if so were they tested at the same time, in the same manner?

[sharpe1027]

lol...why would a team do that to their own qb. again...each team uses their own footballs set at whatever pressure their own qb wants.

Gotcha. I was thinking each team used the same set of balls, my mistake. If they want to do that, fine. Otherwise, just take it out of the team's hands completely.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Who keeps a room at 75 degrees?

My grandparents from Nov 1 to May 1.

[pbmax]

Were the Colts footballs tested? if so were they tested at the same time, in the same manner?

Measured before, during halftime and after game, so the answer would seem to be yes. But its not explicit.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

[gbgary]

Gotcha. I was thinking each team used the same set of balls, my mistake. If they want to do that, fine. Otherwise, just take it out of the team's hands completely.

yup...exactly.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/richard-sherman-thinks-goodell-kraft-relationship-will-protect-patriots/

Richard Sherman thinks Goodell-Kraft relationship will protect Patriots

Posted by Mike Florio on January 25, 2015, 8:39 PM EST

[woodbuck27]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYNnUioUNQKyXW-GSOYGde4Ji5c57_rr-qJLLzPdaeJgqdpmizqw

I'm wondering if that ball is properly inflated?

[Guiness]

In similarly head shaking news, the NFL has decided Lynch's crotch grab is more onerous than rule breaking deflated footballs. If he does it at the SB, 15 yard penalty for the 'obscene' gesture!!! Good thing the NFL is thinking of the children, isn't it?

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24989206/nfl-warns-marshawn-lynch-with-15-yard-penalty-for-obscene-gesture

[woodbuck27]

The NFL opened this can of worms and informed us that the proper decisions would be made regarding it in 3-5 days. Suddenly it became the greatest puzzle to solve.

The drama has been far better than any soap.

Bill Belichick chimes in informing us first that he knows 'nothing' about the football and process of properly inflating that football. He's totally oblivious to this matter... knows nothing.

Tom Brady comes on informing us that he would never cheat. You can almost see the halo over his head in that presser.

Then on Saturday the 24th Jan. Bill Belichick is back (what!?) to assist the NFL in it's now overdue investigation. Bill is at his most charming self. He's like the dull Science Teacher who teaches us about what happens when the balls are vigorously rubbed to get the texture that Tom Brady needs to handle game balls. Bill looks like the hero here as he explains Amontons' Law of Pressure-Temperature as that applies to balls over time and changing temperature. In a matter of days Bill Belichick has gone from a man of total ignorance and the NFL ball to a man enlightened as to how complex it all is and well after an embarrassing concentrated time spent on this issue he's much more informed. He's offered the NFL all it needs to slink away from this matter.

The NFL loves all this because the publicity from it is enormous. It's the lead story on major news channels. It's dealt with as a major topic on CNN. Even Saturday Night Live toss's it into their mix as something as it is or really very hilarious. On and on it goes right up to or beyond the Super Bowl game and the winner.

The NFL as the Super Bowl audience very possibly hits a new record.

Who are the villainous stars of all this but bad Ole Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and the fact of the matter is that unless the NFL can come up with admissions of guilt (good luck with that and the Patriots Mob) or video evidence of ball tampering. This issue is dead in the water.

I'm wondering about stuff like this:

Do the New England Patriots drop pass's and have fumbles that are in accordance with the rest of the NFL teams?

[mraynrand]

Bill Belichick chimes in informing us first that he knows 'nothing' about the football and process of properly inflating that football. He's totally oblivious to this matter... knows nothing.

The old Sergeant Shultz defense!

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/4/8/Sergeant_Schultz_by_wintersnowflurries.jpg

[Guiness]

Saw this headline and thought maybe Brady was admitting something
Tom Brady: I personalized things last week, but I’ve moved past it

But it was just PFT playing word mash.

The actual quote is
I personalized a lot of things and thought this was all about me, and my feelings got hurt. Then I moved past it, because it’s not serving me.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/01/26/tom-brady-on-dc-regarding-deflategate-my-feelings-got-hurt-then-i-moved-past-it-because-its-not-serving-me/

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463640/article/fox-sports-nfl-zeroes-in-on-lockerroom-attendant

FOX Sports: NFL zeroes in on locker-room attendant

By: Marc Sessler ... Around the NFL Writer

Published: Jan. 26, 2015 at 04:40 p.m. ... Updated: Jan. 26, 2015 at 05:36 p.m.

[pbmax]

If they punish a locker-room attendant and don't punish the team, well, soccer is out of the question because its just as corrupt. I guess it will be hockey for me.

[pbmax]

I would like to see his work.

Neil deGrasse Tyson ‏@neiltyson 3h3 hours ago
For the Patriots to blame a change in temperature for 15% lower-pressures, requires balls to be inflated with 125-degree air.

[mraynrand]

If they punish a locker-room attendant and don't punish the team, well, soccer is out of the question because its just as corrupt. I guess it will be hockey for me.

don't fuck with the locker-room attendants


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCCssEas6LE

[woodbuck27]

Double post. :oops:

Why can't we delete posts?

Pugger simply let some air out of it.

[Cheesehead Craig]

If they punish a locker-room attendant and don't punish the team, well, soccer is out of the question because its just as corrupt. I guess it will be hockey for me.

Sean Peyton would like to remind everyone that "ignorance is not an excuse"

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/league-has-no-comment-on-latest-deflategate-development/

League has no comment on latest Deflategate development

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 26, 2015, 4:39 PM EST

" The NFL’s response was only that “we are not commenting on any aspects of the investigation.” ..."

Comment woodbuck27:

Jeeessshh ! What a surprize !

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/ted-wells-says-deflategate-investigation-wont-be-a-quick-one/

Ted Wells says #DeflateGate investigation won’t be a quick one

Posted by Darin Gantt on January 26, 2015, 5:25 PM EST

Ted Wells, who is leading the league’s investigation, said it will be some time before he’s ready to release any findings about the fluctuations in ball pressure heard round the world.

“ I expect the investigation to take at least several more weeks. In the interim, it would be best if everyone involved or potentially involved in this matter avoids public comment concerning the matter until the investigation is concluded. "


Comment woodbuick27:

The man has to make some real money off of this !

[Pugger]

Were the Colts footballs tested? if so were they tested at the same time, in the same manner?

If the league didn't test the Colts footballs then that is the height of incompetence.

[Pugger]

If they punish a locker-room attendant and don't punish the team, well, soccer is out of the question because its just as corrupt. I guess it will be hockey for me.

I find it not believable that a locker room attendant would do something like this on his own without instructions for higher ups.

[Pugger]

Pugger simply let some air out of it.

:lol:

[woodbuck27]

The winner of this costume parade !

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/robert-kraft-nfl-should-apologize-to-patriots-if-football-tampering-isnt-proven/

Robert Kraft: NFL should apologize to Patriots if football tampering isn’t proven

Posted by Mike Wilkening on January 26, 2015, 8:50 PM EST

Comment woodbuck27:

Holy Jeezzz Bob ... SHUT UP !

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 47s48 seconds ago
Source: Gillette Stadium surveillance video shows employee taking 24 footballs into bathroom for roughly 90 seconds http://wp.me/p14QSB-9HaP

THE HORROR!

[woodbuck27]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 47s48 seconds ago
Source: Gillette Stadium surveillance video shows employee taking 24 footballs into bathroom for roughly 90 seconds http://wp.me/p14QSB-9HaP

THE HORROR!

The guy has to take a piss. Can you see him opening that bathroom door and trying to get himself and two bags of footballs inside and then out again? All that in 90 seconds. That man deserves a promotion.

Just picturing that is hilarious.

[mraynrand]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 47s48 seconds ago
Source: Gillette Stadium surveillance video shows employee taking 24 footballs into bathroom for roughly 90 seconds http://wp.me/p14QSB-9HaP

THE HORROR!

The hissing needle!

[pbmax]

The Super Bowl Pre Game should re-enact this Fear Factor style.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 19m19 minutes ago
Can a bag of footballs be deflated in 90 seconds? One source says it would be "easy." http://wp.me/p14QSB-9HbO

[woodbuck27]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwo43Vb-SYE5i1B1vJofbPfAK1aDB2wJ1AIuiRuqjrXsmYcmvR

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGYARSQJ1JcTFbnSP4Sn-hkytftok85zEKC7YUxm4FrAqymbPllQ

[denverYooper]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 47s48 seconds ago
Source: Gillette Stadium surveillance video shows employee taking 24 footballs into bathroom for roughly 90 seconds http://wp.me/p14QSB-9HaP

THE HORROR!

I'm so relieved that they caught the blackguard responsible! Now we can move on to a clean, honest game with a clear conscience.

[Bossman641]

Check the tape from every home game this year. If the ballboy stops by the restroom for 90 seconds before every game we have our answer.

[esoxx]

Check the tape from every home game this year. If the ballboy stops by the restroom for 90 seconds before every game we have our answer.

Irritable Bowel Syndrome?

[ThunderDan]

Fine them $25,000 a football and get on with it.

[mraynrand]

Irritable Bowl Syndrome?

FIFY

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/27/low-standard-of-proof-applies-to-deflategate/

Low standard of proof applies to #DeflateGate

Posted by Mike Florio on January 27, 2015, 7:57 PM EST

[King Friday]

Under-inflated balls are easier for QBs, WRs and RBs to handle than firmer balls in inclement weather. If NE is using a football with a lower psi than their opponent you don't think the Pats would have an advantage? Even if the misdeed seems insignificant to us it was worth it to NE to break the rules. They must've felt it was worth getting caught to get a competitive advantage or else why bother?

It isn't just about throwing or even catching a ball. The greater importance of an under-inflated ball is ball security. A player is far less likely to fumble a ball that is under-inflated because they can get a far better grip on it.

Since the rules were changed (driven partially by Tom Brady's fight for the rule change) to allow road teams to bring their own footballs back in 2006, New England's penchant for fumbling has almost vanished when compared to league averages. A mere coincidence? Rather unlikely.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

[Patler]

It isn't just about throwing or even catching a ball. The greater importance of an under-inflated ball is ball security. A player is far less likely to fumble a ball that is under-inflated because they can get a far better grip on it.

Since the rules were changed (driven partially by Tom Brady's fight for the rule change) to allow road teams to bring their own footballs back in 2006, New England's penchant for fumbling has almost vanished when compared to league averages. A mere coincidence? Rather unlikely.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

Now, THAT is an interesting article.

[woodbuck27]

It isn't just about throwing or even catching a ball. The greater importance of an under-inflated ball is ball security. A player is far less likely to fumble a ball that is under-inflated because they can get a far better grip on it.

Since the rules were changed (driven partially by Tom Brady's fight for the rule change) to allow road teams to bring their own footballs back in 2006, New England's penchant for fumbling has almost vanished when compared to league averages. A mere coincidence? Rather unlikely.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

It looks to me like a preponderance of information is overwhelmingly in favor of finding against the New England Patriots.

[pbmax]

Now, THAT is an interesting article.

Its come under a bit of fire in the analytical community.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

I haven't gone through it all, but the first version of the article looked at lost fumbles which is problematic because fumble recovery is largely a matter of luck. He corrects this in an update to include all fumbles.

Second, he excludes Dome teams in some data. It has been argued that the Patriots are less outliers if you just exclude dome games, rather than teams.

Several of the probability numbers are miscalculated. Instead of using X, they use 1/X, and try to plot it against a normal distribution curve. Except no one know if 1/X has a normal distribution.

That said, Advanced Football Analytics (formerly Advanced NFL Stats) thinks despite Sharp's poor analysis, there is still enough of an outlier there to be worthy of investigation.

[Patler]

Its come under a bit of fire in the analytical community.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

I haven't gone through it all, but the first version of the article looked at lost fumbles which is problematic because fumble recovery is largely a matter of luck. He corrects this in an update to include all fumbles.

Second, he excludes Dome teams in some data. It has been argued that the Patriots are less outliers if you just exclude dome games, rather than teams.

Several of the probability numbers are miscalculated. Instead of using X, they use 1/X, and try to plot it against a normal distribution curve. Except no one know if 1/X has a normal distribution.

That said, Advanced Football Analytics (formerly Advanced NFL Stats) thinks despite Sharp's poor analysis, there is still enough of an outlier there to be worthy of investigation.

The article I read was apparently an updated one. It included all fumbles, not just fumbles lost. His play count seemed solid. You really don't have to look beyond those data points and the resultant "plays/fumble" calculation to see that something seems wrong, especially when the abrupt change after the rule modification is considered. How he subsequently massages and manipulates the numbers is mostly to generate pretty graphs. The raw numbers tell the story.

[pbmax]

The article I read was apparently an updated one. It included all fumbles, not just fumbles lost. His play count seemed solid. You really don't have to look beyond those data points and the resultant "plays/fumble" calculation to see that something seems wrong, especially when the abrupt change after the rule modification is considered. How he subsequently massages and manipulates the numbers is mostly to generate pretty graphs. The raw numbers tell the story.

Possibly not a complete story. Looking at his 5 year time periods, two teams dominate: the Patriots and the Colts.


Because, Manning and Brady are generally among the quickest in football at getting rid of the ball when dropping back to throw. In fact, according to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Manning led the league in time-to-throw in 2014, at a lightning-quick 2.24 seconds. Brady finished 3rd in 2014, and also ranked 3rd, 1st, and 4th between 2011 and 2013 (PFF stats only go as far back as 2011). Even better, Brady also posted the league's lowest sack-per-dropback rate in 2014.

It's not a great strategy to penalize Brady and the Patriots for a lack of fumbles when there was a lower chance of fumbling to begin with, based on the team's play-calling and personnel that yield quick throws and incompletions, as well as fewer sacks.

Is it the ball or the chance of a QB fumbling when they have the fastest hair triggers in the game?

Wilson and Rodgers wouldn't fare so well because both hold onto the ball much, much longer, looking to extend plays.

As the Deadspin article mentions, it might be better to look at RBs and WRs.

[pbmax]

Even when that analysis above restricts itself to WR and RB, the Patriots are very good at keeping the football. If being on the low end of the legal inflation range helps just a little bit, does Rodgers over-inflating the ball increase fumbles and drops?

[mraynrand]

Even when that analysis above restricts itself to WR and RB, the Patriots are very good at keeping the football. If being on the low end of the legal inflation range helps just a little bit, does Rodgers over-inflating the ball increase fumbles and drops?

maybe the Bostick ball was hyper-inflated!

[pbmax]

Finished the critique and the data at points seems to include Special Teams fumbles. Which kinda obliterates the idea of studying under inflated balls for the offense.

[Freak Out]

maybe the Bostick ball was hyper-inflated!

It appeared to be....it took a huge bounce off his fat head.

[Joemailman]

Nobody can say these footballs are under-inflated.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/01/29/0ap3000000465397.jpg

[gbgary]

instant classic! ^^^

[pbmax]

Joe Montana says Tom Brady ordered the Code Red.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/joe-montana-thinks-tom-brady-ordered-footballs-to-be-deflated/

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/nfl-didnt-log-the-psi-of-each-patriots-football/

NFL didn’t log the PSI of each Patriots football

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 29, 2015, 5:30 PM EST

" ... the NFL hasn’t kept detailed records of whether those footballs were slightly under-inflated (which could be the result of a change in temperature) or significantly under-inflated (which would indicate that someone purposely let air out of the footballs).

.... anyone who wants the NFL to get to the bottom of this should want the NFL to be as careful as it possibly can to preserve every piece of evidence it possibly can. And a detailed log of the inflation levels of each football is a piece of evidence the NFL should have. "

[woodbuck27]

I'm not sure if this was posted on the thread but in any case it's interesting. The Commissioner was just on this afternoon and he did speak about the responsibility he has and takes seriously in terms of ensuring the rules are followed.:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-deflating-footballs-may-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds/22113343/

Deflating footballs may not be as easy as it sounds.

Tom Pelissero, USA TODAY Sports 9:14 a.m. EST January 22, 2015

[mraynrand]

And a detailed log of the inflation levels of each football is a piece of evidence the NFL should have.

I think if the NFL gets to this point, even I will lose interest in the game

[sharpe1027]

Even when that analysis above restricts itself to WR and RB, the Patriots are very good at keeping the football. If being on the low end of the legal inflation range helps just a little bit, does Rodgers over-inflating the ball increase fumbles and drops?

I'd like to know how strong the correlation between the rule change in 2006 and the decrease in fumbles. Is that decrease likely to have occurred without a significant external factor, or highly improbable?

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/31/goodell-press-conference-includes-surprising-answer-about-football-testing/

Goodell press conference includes surprising answer about football testing

Posted by Mike Florio on January 31, 2015, 1:07 PM EST

" ...Asked at the Friday press conference by Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com regarding whether halftime testing has occurred in the past, Commissioner Roger Goodell provided a surprising response.

“I don’t know the answer to that question,” Goodell said. “That would be something, I presume, that Ted Wells would look into and will provide that information.” ..."


Comment woodbuck27:

This man is paid $ 40 M $ / Year to not know the answer to a question he should know the answer to?

[ThunderDan]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/31/goodell-press-conference-includes-surprising-answer-about-football-testing/

Goodell press conference includes surprising answer about football testing

Posted by Mike Florio on January 31, 2015, 1:07 PM EST

" ...Asked at the Friday press conference by Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com regarding whether halftime testing has occurred in the past, Commissioner Roger Goodell provided a surprising response.

“I don’t know the answer to that question,” Goodell said. “That would be something, I presume, that Ted Wells would look into and will provide that information.” ..."


Comment woodbuck27:

This man is paid $ 40 M $ / Year to not know the answer to a question he should know the answer to?

Yes, because the CEO of a multi-billion dollar industry should know if the balls are checked at halftime. :roll:

[denverYooper]

This man is paid $ 40 M $ / Year to not know the answer to a question he should know the answer to?

Exactly.

[gbgary]

saw a note that the nfl will look into changing this stupid rule in the off-season.

[mraynrand]

Nobody can say these footballs are under-inflated.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/photo/2015/01/29/0ap3000000465397.jpg

that is one fugly outfit. Looks like little kid jammies.

[mraynrand]

Yes, because the CEO of a multi-billion dollar industry should know if the balls are checked at halftime. :roll:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg

[pbmax]

that is one fugly outfit. Looks like little kid jammies.

Try this one:


http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/Katy-Perry-Google-Watt-01-28-15.jpg

[Bossman641]

I prefer this

http://glamazonsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/katy-perry-grammys-gucci-resort-2013-green-dress-keyhole-embroidered-neckline-glamazons-blog-3.jpg

[Freak Out]

She does have a wonderful rack.

[Freak Out]

http://katyperrysboobies.tumblr.com/

[woodbuck27]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1pv8r6hSZ1qeu2t7o1_500.gif

Yea ...we're distracted.

A wonder of modern medicine!?

Does she or doesn't she have a breast augmentation?

Does it matter?

[pbmax]

The case has developed a few holes!

Patriots had one ball well below normal PSI, 10 others were within a "few ticks" of the low end of the spectrum. Of course, since no one knows the numbers, a few ticks could mean anything, though Florio assumes this means Mort's report of 11 balls 2 PSI blow standard was wrong.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/01/report-many-of-patriots-footballs-a-few-ticks-under-proper-pressure/

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/06/kraft-really-upset-and-ticked-off-about-deflategate-investigation/

Kraft “really upset” and “ticked off” about Deflategate investigation

Posted by Michael David Smith on February 6, 2015, 7:04 AM EST

Comment woodbuck27:

It appears to me this is more about 2015-16 and winning back to back Super Bowls.

Five total wins in 50 years and all of those in the Bill Belichick - Tom Brady Era.

An impressive goal if it's achieved.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/07/jerry-rice-admits-to-cheating-says-everyone-did-it/

Jerry Rice admits to cheating, says everyone did it

Posted by Mike Florio on February 7, 2015, 10:28 AM EST

“.... I feel like it’s cheating,” Rice told Jim Rome .... regarding the current controversy regarding whether the Patriots deflated footballs. “Because you have an edge up on your opponent and it’s unfortunate that it happened. I’m not saying the outcome of the game would have been different or anything like that because they (the Colts) got beat 45-7, but they (the Pat's) still had an edge.”

By claiming that “All players did it!” regarding stickum use, Rice is trying to create the impression that he didn’t have an edge.

Regardless, it’s now clear that the greatest receiver of all time cheated — and it’s hard not to wonder whether Rice discovered the glove-stickum combo at some point during a rocky rookie season that featured nearly enough drops to get him benched. ... "

Comment woodbuck27:

If NFL teams and player are cheating and getting away with it or breaking the rules.

That's on the NFL to get a grip on the extent of this and stop it.

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

I've been wondering just how the NFL is going to conclude and resolve this latest; and in my view huge PR disaster. If the New England Patriots are the bad boy. Certainly given all the known facts. The NFL has to be the neglectful bad parent. Roger Goodell the incompetent bad father.

Wind it right back to the known beginning.

This whole investigation of a league rules violation shouldn't be ongoing in terms if the investigation considering that the NFL was aware of the New England Patriots tampering with balls back in November 2014. The question begging then to be answered.

Why was this illegal rules violation dragged out to begin formally, after the AFC Championship game was completed? Would it even have gotten off the ground if Indy LB l D’Qwell Jackson hadn't intercepted a ball in the second quarter of that Championship game and noticed it was soft?

How did the game officials miss this fact of a under inflated football (s)?

It seems the answer of why so many questions should be obvious. The NFL wasn't going to bother with this in any formal manner until it's hand was forced.

Surveys have determined that by far most NFL fans believe that the Patriots are guilty. We've observed all the players 'acting poorly' as they denied this or that. We saw the Patriots Head Coach shrug it all off in shock and total ignorance and then suddenly become the Scientist. Offering the NFL a reasonable to him answer as to why the balls were measured as under inflated because of changing temperatures over time. Nope that didn't seel well at al as others had their say.

We observed the league ignore Tom Brady for days after the investigation was formally announced as open. Wasn't Tom Brady the man that would most benefit most from ball tampering? Then finally he came forward with his unimpressive act; laughing about the ridiculousness of anyone imagining he might cheat.

We've observed the Patriots owner Mr. Robert Kraft demand an apology as a confirmed verdict lacked in his view evidence of guilt on behalf of his organization.

We've observed the NFL Commissioner speak of his ignorance in certain matters. It seems that knowledge of footballs is outside of his job description. Roger Goodell who's paid $40 M$ a year is leaving it all up to some firm hired to investigate the whole matter. Goodell's patiently awaiting their findings.

The question that begs to be answered:

Why Rodger, are you denying awareness of this cheating since November?

"Adam Schefter — who is the most reliable NFL reporter on the planet — has said that the Colts first told the NFL that the Patriots were possibly using underinflated balls in a game in mid-November."

To top it all of and of course that answer for Roger Goodell will come at some later time (not days but stretching weeks) at an exorbitant cost to the NFL.

This whole thing has turned into a circus and sadly at the cost to the games very integrity. This is a PR disaster of the highest order. In any way it's finally spun. Roger Goodell should resign his position after his latest, and really looking inside of it all NFL blunder.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/12/belichick-may-have-inadvertently-made-news-last-night/

Belichick may have inadvertently made news last night

Posted by Mike Florio on February 12, 2015, 4:05 PM EST

Comment woodbuck27:

Holy Stall !

So the big report will arrive for all to see and comment on in March. Then there will be a convening of a panel of selected NFL people to decide the fate of the report. After that and 'only' if necessary we'll be treated to the appeal process and ....

For all that's is sensible...simply ensure that the game balls meet the rules on proper inflation after they arrive on the field.

In a worse case for the Patriots scenario:

Do you punish New England because 'that organization' got caught? All the time, $money$ and dramatics over something the NFL simply fumbled the ball on again. The NFL is going to ruin the game.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/17/fresh-deflategate-wrinkle-involves-special-teams-ball/

Fresh #DeflateGate wrinkle involves special-teams ball

Posted by Mike Florio on February 17, 2015, 10:19 PM EST

"....Kelly Naqi of ESPN.com reports that a Patriots locker-room attendant tried to introduce an unapproved kicking ball during the first half of the game between Indianapolis and New England. Investigator Ted Wells has interviewed the attendant, 48-year-old Jim McNally (a part time employee}, regarding the situation.

It’s unknown whether McNally is the same person who, as Jay Glazer of FOX Sports first reported, was spotted by a surveillance camera at Gillette Stadium taking a bag of footballs into a separate area of the venue. ..."

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/17/new-espn-report-conflicts-prior-claim-of-football-deflation/

New ESPN report conflicts with prior claim of football deflation

Posted by Mike Florio on February 17, 2015, 11:36 PM EST

Comment woodbuck27:

Is this a mess?

No...the NFL is awaiting the 'REAL REPORT" that it'll pay what exorbitant price for !?

[woodbuck27]

Comment woodbuck27:

Like to read? Do you enjoy reading about frustration?

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/18/new-espn-deflategate-report-paints-problematic-picture-of-entire-situation/

Hurley: New ESPN DeflateGate Report Paints Problematic Picture Of Entire Situation

By Michael Hurley, CBS Boston ..... February 18, 2015 9:09 AM

[Freak Out]

Did the NFL issue a report that closed this?

[pbmax]

Did the NFL issue a report that closed this?

Well's is reportedly close to finishing, but nothing has been finalized or published yet.

But I think they are real.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk · 1h 1 hour ago
English translation of page 2 of Wells report: "The Patriots cheated."

http://t.co/bhNzbG9LyB

http://t.co/x3UpeANhkP

Not going to lie. I would be vastly more irate if the Packers lost in the SB and I could hang it on this. Just like the Packers not actually losing to the Denver Broncos in '98 Super Bowl.

[pbmax]

They have text messages (Brady refused to turn his over) between locker room guys. Discussed Brady complaining about the level of inflation. Also lead to this clip:

NSFW (language):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBdGOrcUEg8

[mraynrand]

It's only cheating if it costs you

[pbmax]

Robert is digging in.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/statement-from-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-on-deflation-investigation-findings/


“What is not highlighted in the text of the report is that three of the Colts’ four footballs measured by at least one official were under the required psi level. As far as we are aware, there is no comparable data available from any other game because, in the history of the NFL, psi levels of footballs have never been measured at halftime, in any climate. If they had been, based on what we now know, it is safe to assume that every cold-weather game was played with under inflated footballs. As compelling a case as the Wells Report may try to make, I am going to rely on the factual evidence of numerous scientists and engineers rather than inferences from circumstantial evidence.

[mraynrand]

I am going to rely on the factual evidence of numerous scientists and engineers rather than inferences from circumstantial evidence.

#science
#facts

[pbmax]

#science
#facts

Its not exactly circumstantial. But it is lacking context, they have no measures of other game balls after the game (esp. cold weather). But Kraft's defense also begs the question, why was Brady harping on it when by rule he was able to observe all game ball prep until the day before the game?

Its suggestive that he expected something to happen when he wasn't present.

The report is 243 pages long. https://t.co/jUzm3OhyIn

And Wells all but absolves Kraft, management and Belichick. Its puts it right on Tommy's doorstep.

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h2 hours ago
Wells report: “We do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Belichick or other Pats coach”

[pbmax]

From Schefter: https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/952058928180082

I can't believe I am linking to Facebook for this. I wonder if the equipment guys have a My Space page.


Crux of Wells Report: "In particular, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee. Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."

[pbmax]

Some of the texts in question, Tommy was giving gear and signing memorabilia for these two guys.

Andrew Abramson ‏@AbramsonPBP 2h2 hours ago
This is damning for Tom Brady

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEVund4UMAA67qA.png

[pbmax]

Jane McManus ‏@janesports 2h2 hours ago
A point from @SarahSpain - timing Wells report for this week removed question of whether to take draft picks away from Patriots.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 2h2 hours ago
Roger Goodell in 2008: “We should reconsider the standard of proof to . . . make it easier for a competitive violation to be established.”

Onion Sports Network ‏@OnionSports 40m40 minutes ago
In Focus: Nation Can’t Wait To Hear Patriots Fans’ Excuses This Time http://www.theonion.com/r/37819tsd

[pbmax]

A reminder about how deflated the balls actually were (short version: not as much as originally reported).

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/finally-the-halftime-psi-numbers-are-known/

[pbmax]

Counter-narrative time: Brady Targeted by Framegate

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/tom-bradys-dad-declares-wells-report-framegate/

[pbmax]

Maybe Tom Brady dropped in the draft because he isn't that bright:

Andrew Siciliano ‏@AndrewSiciliano 3m3 minutes ago
It should be remembered, after under-inflated balls were corrected at half, Tom Brady went 12/14 for 131 yards and 2TD in the 2nd half.

[pbmax]

Five Thirty Eight finds the statistical evidence in the report persuasive.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/

[Rastak]

Robert is digging in.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/statement-from-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-on-deflation-investigation-findings/

Yea, he is.

There was no smoking gun proof but the preponderance of the evidence certainly shows that dude was fucking with the footballs.

The dude disappoints me he didn't admit looks like his equipment guys were messing with the footballs despite the fact it obviously doesn't give them a huge advantage.

[mraynrand]

it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots)

good point

[pbmax]

Yea, he is.

There was no smoking gun proof but the preponderance of the evidence certainly shows that dude was fucking with the footballs.

The dude disappoints me he didn't admit looks like his equipment guys were messing with the footballs despite the fact it obviously doesn't give them a huge advantage.

Their home fumble rates are extremely low. The initial study on it was seriously flawed, but after follow ups and corrections to it, the extraordinary low rate stands.

Now why Brady would be in charge of that is a good question.

[red]

theres actually talk that brady might get suspended

does anyone here think it would actually happen?

the report does seem to say that this wasn't a one time thing, and that brady had the ball boys doing it for a long time

maybe suspended for a preseason game, but i can't see the nfl giving more then a wrist slap to him here, like a 5 digit fine

[Cheesehead Craig]

Golden Boy? He may get 2 games but the NFL wouldn't dare do much to the sacred Pats.

[esoxx]

I could care less if he gets suspended. The main thing is he's been exposed as a cheater and a liar. That's his scarlet letter to wear.

[Pugger]

I hope Tommy Boy gets at least a 2 game suspension and is fined. If he isn't that will set a bad precedence.

How would you like to be the 2 poor schmucks caught in the middle here, the 2 that actually deflated the balls? There is no way in hell they did it on their own. And there is no way in hell they weren't gonna do as Brady asked. Brady isn't gonna lose his job over this and those 2 guys better not either.

[mraynrand]

I hope Tommy Boy gets at least a 2 game suspension and is fined. If he isn't that will set a bad precedence.

How would you like to be the 2 poor schmucks caught in the middle here, the 2 that actually deflated the balls? There is no way in hell they did it on their own. And there is no way in hell they weren't gonna do as Brady asked. Brady isn't gonna lose his job over this and those 2 guys better not either.


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[smuggler]

Stupid thing about the current disciplinary setup in the league is that you have to oversuspend or overfine in order to get the punishment you actually intend to be administered. The arbitration is NFLPA controlled at this point, so they usually just half whatever penalty the NFL imposes.

[pbmax]

Stupid thing about the current disciplinary setup in the league is that you have to oversuspend or overfine in order to get the punishment you actually intend to be administered. The arbitration is NFLPA controlled at this point, so they usually just half whatever penalty the NFL imposes.

Its not that simple. The NFL and NFLPA jointly select arbitrators for game related player conduct violations.

There is an outside arbitrator for the Drug Policy.

Roger handles the appeals for Player Conduct.

Don't know where this falls though. If that actually had a plan and policy in place, then halving it wouldn't be an issue. But the $9 billion a year business still runs discipline like MLB in 1974.

[ThunderDan]

theres actually talk that brady might get suspended

does anyone here think it would actually happen?

the report does seem to say that this wasn't a one time thing, and that brady had the ball boys doing it for a long time

maybe suspended for a preseason game, but i can't see the nfl giving more then a wrist slap to him here, like a 5 digit fine

The NFL rules have the penalty stated for football tampering. I think it is the cover up and not being honest that are going to cost Tom Brady a game or 2 in 2015.

[pbmax]

Florio is posting like the failure to cooperate will land under Personal Conduct. Not sure about the inflation violation itself.

[MadScientist]

Since the violation was done to impact the game, and instigated by a player, it should be treated similarly to a positive PED test - 4 game suspension for Brady.

Since non-players were involved, the Patriots should be fined, somewhere in the 100-500K range, and the two directly involved prohibited from contact with game day balls.

Taking away draft picks doesn't seem right for this offense, unless they want to take past team history into account.

[mraynrand]

Probably get away with crucifixion, first offense.

[Pugger]

The NFL rules have the penalty stated for football tampering. I think it is the cover up and not being honest that are going to cost Tom Brady a game or 2 in 2015.

Agreed. Often it is the lies and coverup that is worse than the original sin.

[pbmax]

Do any of the draft guys know what Tom Brady's hand size was for his Combine in 2000? Planning to start a conspiracy theory on Twitter this weekend and it would be good to know how close to reality I am going to be.

[Guiness]

Can't believe I'm about to defend Tom Brady.

Basically, the NFL office isn't known for their tight lips and lack of leaks. Dude's married to Gisele Bundchen and they want full access to all his cell phone message? Ya, I don't think so :eyes:
She dodged the fappening (I think?) but no way she gets through this clean!

[red]

Do any of the draft guys know what Tom Brady's hand size was for his Combine in 2000? Planning to start a conspiracy theory on Twitter this weekend and it would be good to know how close to reality I am going to be.

i honestly don't know if they did that back then. i can't find anything on the peytons, brady's or favre's

mine are 8.75 if that helps

and i have a hard time throwing a ball when its cold out

[Smidgeon]

i honestly don't know if they did that back then. i can't find anything on the peytons, brady's or favre's

mine are 8.75 if that helps

and i have a hard time throwing a ball when its cold out

Favre's and Rodgers' are both over 9.5. Don't know about Brady.

[Rastak]

I am firmly in the camp of the NFL screwed the pooch. This is obviously hind sight but it doesn't take einstein to figure it out.

1) The NFL could have avoided the bad pub by telling the Patriots "We are on to you, don't ever do it again. We're watching.

2) The official was told of the Colts suspicions before the game. Why in the hell when he lost custody of the balls didn;t he immediately test them knowing a complaint had been lodged?

3) Why does the NFL allow teams to provide the balls and allow a range? Bring a bag of god damn footballs to the game and tell every team the PSI will be 14 and if you don't like it tough shit. The field will also be 100 yards from goal line to goal line. You don't get to customize that either.

[pbmax]

1. If that had gotten out Roger would have had bleeding ears from 31 other owners over the "heads up" he gave his buddy Robert K.

2. Not sure, but the one thing more important to the NFL than the rules of the game are TV start times. Maybe he was up against the clock? Officials probably have a checklist of things to do before the game. But good question.

3. Because QB's complained about having balls for the game that weren't broken in.

Its a simple fix. You bring the balls out day before game, or well before game, test them and then lock them up with a lock only the Refs have. Then they take them out to the field at a set time prior to kickoff.

[Rastak]

1. If that had gotten out Roger would have had bleeding ears from 31 other owners over the "heads up" he gave his buddy Robert K.

I had heard that it was routine under Tagliabue to tell teams to "Knock it off".

2. Not sure, but the one thing more important to the NFL than the rules of the game are TV start times. Maybe he was up against the clock? Officials probably have a checklist of things to do before the game. But good question.

Yea, I thought about that...tell the truck to "run another commercial" - it was the late game.

3. Because QB's complained about having balls for the game that weren't broken in.

Its a simple fix. You bring the balls out day before game, or well before game, test them and then lock them up with a lock only the Refs have. Then they take them out to the field at a set time prior to kickoff.

That works too but athletes adapt. If the balls were all the same they'd figure it out quick and practice with the official ones.





Comments in bold.

[red]

how bout the nfl uses technology and uses a ball that doesn't have to be inflated with a certain amount of air?

we can send a craft to pluto, but we can't figure out a way to make a solid core football that doesn't need to be inflated or deflated before every game?

some kind of nerf/rubber innards with a leather shell. something that looks the same, performs the same, but something that can't change or degrade over time. like a baseball, or golf ball, but softer on the outside

[mraynrand]

some kind of nerf/rubber innards with a leather shell. something that looks the same, performs the same, but something that can't change or degrade over time. like a baseball, or golf ball, but softer on the outside

Here you go:
http://www.therobotspajamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/starshiptroopers5.jpg

[red]

Here you go:
http://www.therobotspajamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/starshiptroopers5.jpg

didn't that have a metallic sound when they caught it though?

[Rastak]

how bout the nfl uses technology and uses a ball that doesn't have to be inflated with a certain amount of air?

we can send a craft to pluto, but we can't figure out a way to make a solid core football that doesn't need to be inflated or deflated before every game?

some kind of nerf/rubber innards with a leather shell. something that looks the same, performs the same, but something that can't change or degrade over time. like a baseball, or golf ball, but softer on the outside


NFL supplies the balls, sets a standard pressure and we forget about it. If people keep dicking with the air pressure then I like your idea.

[mraynrand]

didn't that have a metallic sound when they caught it though?

See, making it out of some titanium-like alloy means you can use the same football for the next forty millennia with no degradation. Placekickers need thicker shoes, however.

[mraynrand]

I don't care if Brady gets a suspension. Small price to pay for a SB. If the Patsies don't have to vacate wins, including the SB, then the punishment is meaningless.

[Rastak]

I don't care if Brady gets a suspension. Small price to pay for a SB. If the Patsies don't have to vacate wins, including the SB, then the punishment is meaningless.


Just to point out, when they re-inflated the balls he was better. After the shit blew up I am guessing the balls were normal during the big game.

[sharpe1027]

Just to point out, when they re-inflated the balls he was better. After the shit blew up I am guessing the balls were normal during the big game.

That seems to suggest your punishment for cheating should be reduced if you are good enough to win without cheating.

If some one uses PEDs, but they are still really good without them, maybe there should be no suspension.

[Rastak]

That seems to suggest your punishment for cheating should be reduced if you are good enough to win without cheating.

If some one uses PEDs, but they are still really good without them, maybe there should be no suspension.

Nope, not saying that at all. These clowns still deny it and did not cooperate in the investigation. I'm thinking if they would have said "yea, we pushed the limit" it would been less but I'd throw the fucking book at them.


edit: My comment was more directed at the outraged people saying "that's why they won" - "game would have been different" crowd which is a crock of bullshit.

[mraynrand]

My comment was more directed at the outraged people saying "that's why they won" - "game would have been different" crowd which is a crock of bullshit.

Sure, I get this. And I don't make this claim at all (It just makes their corruption look really stupid). Patsies should have the book thrown at them for a consistent and repeated pattern of cheating. Who knows how else they've cheated? Video, deflation - perhaps these are just the tips of a large iceberg.

[mraynrand]

"A one game suspension. That sounds about right to me"
http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img24667996.jpg

[mraynrand]

"Too harsh, too harsh."

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/paul_hornung_2004_09_30.jpg

[Pugger]

Can't believe I'm about to defend Tom Brady.

Basically, the NFL office isn't known for their tight lips and lack of leaks. Dude's married to Gisele Bundchen and they want full access to all his cell phone message? Ya, I don't think so :eyes:
She dodged the fappening (I think?) but no way she gets through this clean!

The folks in the Wells committee told Brady's attorneys they only wanted communication relevant to the investigation but Brady's camp still refused to give the committee any of those texts and e-mails.

[Pugger]

Sure, I get this. And I don't make this claim at all (It just makes their corruption look really stupid). Patsies should have the book thrown at them for a consistent and repeated pattern of cheating. Who knows how else they've cheated? Video, deflation - perhaps these are just the tips of a large iceberg.

This is my take too. What else are these guys doing that they haven't been caught at?

[smuggler]

I don't really care what punishment Brady gets, but whatever it is, he needn't bother appealing, since he brought it all on himself.

[Pugger]

"Too harsh, too harsh."

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/paul_hornung_2004_09_30.jpg

Wasn't Hornung suspended for an entire season? Paul also was forthcoming and admitted his misdeeds and that went a long way in keeping his reputation intact. Folks hate liars more than anything else.

[Rastak]

The folks in the Wells committee told Brady's attorneys they only wanted communication relevant to the investigation but Brady's camp still refused to give the committee any of those texts and e-mails.


I look at it this way. If Brady had said "Yea, I asked those guys to get the footballs as soft as they could and I knew or had a feeling that's what they were doing" then I'd give him one game and a big fine or just a big fine.


However, when his employer is investigating wrongdoing and he tries to throw roadblocks in the way to keep his employer as in the dark as possible he should get the hammer. I say 4 games just for blocking the inquiry.


It would have been better to just own up to it. Then again perhaps he was afraid Adolph Goodell would put him on the exempt list for a couple of years.

[mraynrand]

Adolph Goodell.

Seriously? Goodell is at best a tinpot dictator. Any real controversy and he folds like a tent at an Everest base camp during an avalanche.

[mraynrand]

Brady's camp still refused to give the committee any of those texts and e-mails.

Certainly no one cares about missing emails or servers. No corruption on wrongdoing there. move along. move along.

[red]

you know. we got this issue with brady not giving up his texts, we also have the texts between the ball boys.

texts also helped bring down aaron hernandez

its really not that hard to delete texts people. if you're being investigated for something and you have incriminating texts on your phone, spend 15 minutes and delete it all. or "lose" the phone, and go but a new one, these people are multi millionaires, its not like the can't afford a new iphone every week

[Guiness]

The folks in the Wells committee told Brady's attorneys they only wanted communication relevant to the investigation but Brady's camp still refused to give the committee any of those texts and e-mails.

While a lot of what Lee (Brady's agent) is saying is bullshit, I think he hit on this one

“Finally, any information we would have provided, and the Wells investigative team did ask us to go through Tom’s phone on our own and provide them with information if we chose to go that route. But as you might surmise if we would have chosen to go that route, any information we would have given them, they probably would have had skepticism about anyway.”

so they hand over texts, it has nothing incriminating, Wells would've said they withheld stuff.

[pbmax]

you know. we got this issue with brady not giving up his texts, we also have the texts between the ball boys.

texts also helped bring down aaron hernandez

its really not that hard to delete texts people. if you're being investigated for something and you have incriminating texts on your phone, spend 15 minutes and delete it all. or "lose" the phone, and go but a new one, these people are multi millionaires, its not like the can't afford a new iphone every week

If you delete them on your phone, the phone company can still retrieve them. It doesn't help the NFL here because they don't have subpoena power.

[KYPack]

how bout the nfl uses technology and uses a ball that doesn't have to be inflated with a certain amount of air?

we can send a craft to pluto, but we can't figure out a way to make a solid core football that doesn't need to be inflated or deflated before every game?

some kind of nerf/rubber innards with a leather shell. something that looks the same, performs the same, but something that can't change or degrade over time. like a baseball, or golf ball, but softer on the outside

Maybe, but it would be a tough job.

For instance, over the last few years they tried to introduce a new football with artificial laces. The laces in the new ball would be made of a new material that would be consistent and reduce the manufacturing costs. In the trials of the new balls, there was 100% agreement. All the QB's rejected them, said they felt funny, didn't throw well, etc.

If they couldn't even make a ball with different laces, how would they do at introducing a totally synthetic ball?

[pbmax]

NBA had this problem as well. Tried new, synthetic ball rather than leather and the PGs all threw a fit. Lasted less than half a season.

[sharpe1027]

Nope, not saying that at all. These clowns still deny it and did not cooperate in the investigation. I'm thinking if they would have said "yea, we pushed the limit" it would been less but I'd throw the fucking book at them.


edit: My comment was more directed at the outraged people saying "that's why they won" - "game would have been different" crowd which is a crock of bullshit.

My mistake.

[red]

Maybe, but it would be a tough job.

For instance, over the last few years they tried to introduce a new football with artificial laces. The laces in the new ball would be made of a new material that would be consistent and reduce the manufacturing costs. In the trials of the new balls, there was 100% agreement. All the QB's rejected them, said they felt funny, didn't throw well, etc.

If they couldn't even make a ball with different laces, how would they do at introducing a totally synthetic ball?

why do the players get to decide? players didn't want to wear knee pads either

i'm sure a lot of players haven't likes a lot of the rules that have changed in recent years

if i was the comish, and i wanted to make a change like this, i would tell the players to deal with it, or find new jobs

i mean hell, we live in a day and age where the nfl tells the players what kind of shoes they can wear during games and what headphones they are allowed to wear before and after games

[Rastak]

Seriously? Goodell is at best a tinpot dictator. Any real controversy and he folds like a tent at an Everest base camp during an avalanche.


I now firmly believe he's an idiot. There is a reason he consistently loses in court.

He correctly gave Ray Rice 2 games then punished him again when there was outrage....I swear, the dude just looks to see which was the wind is blowing and goes with that. That works great for a congressman but not so good for a commissioner of a major sports league.

[red]

I now firmly believe he's an idiot. There is a reason he consistently loses in court.

He correctly gave Ray Rice 2 games then punished him again when there was outrage....I swear, the dude just looks to see which was the wind is blowing and goes with that. That works great for a congressman but not so good for a commissioner of a major sports league.

took you this long to figure this out?

[Rastak]

took you this long to figure this out?Yea, I suspected it forever but to my shame it took this long to be completely sure.

[KYPack]

why do the players get to decide? players didn't want to wear knee pads either

i'm sure a lot of players haven't likes a lot of the rules that have changed in recent years

if i was the comish, and i wanted to make a change like this, i would tell the players to deal with it, or find new jobs

i mean hell, we live in a day and age where the nfl tells the players what kind of shoes they can wear during games and what headphones they are allowed to wear before and after games

It's a passing league.

QB's do the passing.

if there is a rev to the ball that the QB's don't like, it won't become the game ball.

That the reality of it.

[KYPack]

I now firmly believe he's an idiot. There is a reason he consistently loses in court.

He correctly gave Ray Rice 2 games then punished him again when there was outrage....I swear, the dude just looks to see which was the wind is blowing and goes with that. That works great for a congressman but not so good for a commissioner of a major sports league.

He was hired in with the charter to:

A. Be a sheriff and punish those who commit infractions (which he still believes is his main public function)

B. Manage and promote the giant money machine.

he is a master of B and a boob at A.

As long as the money machine is going and growing, the owners will ignore his lack of function at the A task.

If it was the other way round, he's have been fired after the New Orleans debacle which was a clumsy fuck-up from the word "go".

[Rastak]

He was hired in with the charter to:

A. Be a sheriff and punish those who commit infractions (which he still believes is his main public function)

B. Manage and promote the giant money machine.

he is a master of B and a boob at A.

As long as the money machine is going and growing, the owners will ignore his lack of function at the A task.

If it was the other way round, he's have been fired after the New Orleans debacle which was a clumsy fuck-up from the word "go".


Agree completely and we're assuming the B part is him and not people under him coming up with the great ideas he just rubber stamps.

[red]

according to one report, brady WILL BE suspended, and goodell will hand down the punishment this week

http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/report-patriots-tom-brady-be-suspended-nfl?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo

[pbmax]

Forgot about this:

Aaron Nagler @AaronNagler
People forget, prior to Spygate exploding, the Packers caught New England taping signals. They handled it discretely.

[pbmax]

BTW, the Wells report invokes the Ideal Gas Law to approximate the difference in pressure due to temperature changes.

However, as put here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

the Ideal Gas Law is not correct for normal atmospheric conditions on Planet Earth.

[Carolina_Packer]

Forgot about this:

Aaron Nagler @AaronNagler
People forget, prior to Spygate exploding, the Packers caught New England taping signals. They handled it discretely.

Would this be the game that raised the team's suspicion of the Pats?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=261119009

Apparently some other teams were filming the Packers sideline signals that year, especially at home. With the likes of Verand Morency, Samkon Gado and Robert Ferguson at skill positions, who needs to film anything?

[Guiness]

BTW, the Wells report invokes the Ideal Gas Law to approximate the difference in pressure due to temperature changes.

However, as put here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html

the Ideal Gas Law is not correct for normal atmospheric conditions on Planet Earth.

Anybody who's ever had the pleasure of a university thermodynamics course can relate to the pleasures of sorting that shit out.

[mraynrand]

In the future, I want to know the partial pressures of all the gases in the football, as well as enthalpy and free energy measurements in real time, during the game. DirecTV can have a special channel to display that information.

[pbmax]

In the future, I want to know the partial pressures of all the gases in the football, as well as enthalpy and free energy measurements in real time, during the game. DirecTV can have a special channel to display that information.

If they just put a chip into the ball, we could not only know when the ball crosses the goal line, but also be able to predict under- and over-throws.

[Guiness]

If they just put a chip into the ball, we could not only know when the ball crosses the goal line, but also be able to predict under- and over-throws.

Oh, oh, oh, and an altimeter! Then we could know definitively if that last throw was a 'frozen rope' or not :duel:

[Cheesehead Craig]

And the chip can create a tail on the ball so we can see the path the ball has taken.

[Guiness]

And the chip can create a tail on the ball so we can see the path the ball has taken.

Sacrebleu that's a good idea!

[Striker]

Deflate-Gate: Tom Brady Suspended Four Games
Tom Brady, the star quarterback of the New England Patriots, was suspended for four games after an investigator concluded he was probably aware that team personnel let air out of footballs for a playoff game.

"Quarterback Tom Brady will be suspended without pay for the first four games of the 2015 regular season for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL." the league said in a statement Monday afternoon. "Brady may participate in all off-season, training camp and pre-season activities, including pre-season games."

The investigator's report on the scandal known as Deflate-Gate, issued last week, faulted two Patriots employees in what it described as a probable scheme to deflate footballs for the AFC championship game, making them easier to grip.

Brady mostly sidestepped questions about the report in a public appearance last week. At a news conference in January, he denied wrongdoing: "I would never do anything to break the rules."

Brady, 37, has led the Patriots to six Super Bowls and four championships.

Steelers, @Bills, Jaguars, @Cowboys.

Two of those four as easily winnable without Brady. Getting off pretty light considering that schedule.

[pbmax]

Joe Banner
‏@JoeBanner13
Not exactly the apology the Pats had demanded

SCHDENFREUDE IS RUNNING DEEP ON TWITTER

Scott Kacsmar retweeted
Charlie Batch ‏@CharlieBatch16 25m25 minutes ago
T. Brady suspended 4 games for violating integrity of the #NFL. T.Pryor suspended 5 games in NFL for Tattoos while in college. AMAZING!

MY FATHER WARNED ME THAT KIND OF THING CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG

Jason McIntyre ‏@jasonrmcintyre 28m28 minutes ago
Plaxico Burress shot himself, went to jail & got a 4-game suspension.
Tom Brady got 4 games?

LESSON: ARM YOURSELF WITH WILSON NEEDLES

Ben Muth ‏@FO_wordofmuth 43m43 minutes ago
Pats start 4-0. Belichick sticks with the kid. Brady winds up in Buffalo next year. Ciiiiirrrrrrrrccccccclllllllleeeeee of liiiiiiiiife.

HAKUNA MATATA

PFTCommenter ‏@PFTCommenter 48m48 minutes ago
If the NFL really wanted to make Tom Brady disapear for a while they should of just told him they were pregnant

WINNER

[MadScientist]

Steelers, @Bills, Jaguars, @Cowboys.

Two of those four as easily winnable without Brady. Getting off pretty light considering that schedule.

Jags yes, the others could prove tough. They could easily go 1-3, vs 3-1 with Brady.

They also loose a #1 in 16 and a #4 in 17. Good chance for the Packers to benefit in the first round next year.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 9m9 minutes ago
Bill Belichick exonerated of wrongdoing on Deflategate http://wp.me/p14QSB-9LOp

He is happy.

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/belichick-lets-party.jpg

[gbgary]

figured it would be 4ish games and/or a fine or picks...but all three...didn't figure that. i'm ok with it but now...change the rule.

[red]

i think that in true new english fashion, brady should be forced to wear a giant red "C" on the front of his jersey for the rest of his career

and before anyone thinks they're a cleaver smart ass (i'm looking at you rand), no, the captain "c" doesn't count

[red]

figured it would be 4ish games and/or a fine or picks...but all three...didn't figure that. i'm ok with it but now...change the rule.

yeah, i never thought the nfl would come down that hard on them, but IMO, still not hard enough

[jklowan]

Can they just change his number to 12.5

[gbgary]

Can they just change his number to 12.5

brilliant! lol

[red]

LOL, nice

[Cheesehead Craig]

So Brady is now forced to stay home with a supermodel for a month instead of a NFL lockerroom. #Bradywins.

[Guiness]

IMO the biggest part is that 1st round pick - kind of surprised about that.

edit: just read the text message exchange - ouch, that was damning.

[Fritz]

figured it would be 4ish games and/or a fine or picks...but all three...didn't figure that. i'm ok with it but now...change the rule.

The significance of losing that first round pick, for the Packers, could be the difference between Ray Lewis and John Michels.