Play calling: Rodgers or MM?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Arod sorta blamed MM for loss of aggression.

Is Seattle at end of game too loud for Rodgers to effectively audible?

[vince]

Arod sorta blamed MM for loss of aggression.

Is Seattle at end of game too loud for Rodgers to effectively audible?
It's both but Rodgers has complete control at the line to do whatever he wants. Only in retrospect after witnessing the most unique series of failed efforts in history can you say they should have taken the risk of putting the ball in the air at the end.

[Joemailman]

Maybe in that situation he was told not to audible.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe in that situation he was told not to audible.

huh
maybe so

[vince]

Maybe in that situation he was told not to audible.
I doubt he was told that. He's smart and experienced enough to know not to in that situation.

It is possible in football to make the right decision and still not have it work out.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Only in retrospect

People (me, Jason Wilde, 10 million others) were calling-out the massive anal clench in real time

[vince]

People (me, Jason Wilde, 10 million others) were calling-out the massive anal clench in real time
Media and fan emotion characterizations don't make it real.

Everyone watching could feel the Packers losing control of the game. The question was could they hang onto enough to hold them off. They needed to punch the Seahawks in the mouth and out-execute them to get to the game's end.

I think momentum is real in football and Seattle obviously had it at the end but you gotta fight to offset and and get it back. Seattle's pretty good at keeping it when they get it.

[Striker]

Honestly, the Falcons game should have taught the Packers to never let up. Yeah, it's not "good sportsmanship" or whatever to run up the score and just keep twisting the dagger, but any team is capable of coming back in a game.

[vince]

The Packers DIDN'T "LET UP". They fought their asses off and fucked up the game at the same time.

[Striker]

I'd say their "play not to lose" strategy was pretty much the definition of "letting up".

[vince]

I'd say their "play not to lose" strategy was pretty much the definition of "letting up".
THEY PLAYED TO WIN THE GAME and they let 'em off the hook through an unbelievable series of bad execution.

[mraynrand]

The Packers DIDN'T "LET UP". They fought their asses off and fucked up the game at the same time.

I have to disagree. It looked like a kneel down mentality after the final INT. Like PB mentioned, they went to a prevent mode with two high safeties and then got gashed in the running game. Even if they were physically not 'letting up' the switch into a more prevent mode I think affected them beyond pure scheme. Look at HHCD pursuit on Lynch's late runs and receptions for example.

[vince]

I have to disagree. It looked like a kneel down mentality after the final INT. Like PB mentioned, they went to a prevent mode with two high safeties and then got gashed in the running game. Even if they were physically not 'letting up' the switch into a more prevent mode I think affected them beyond pure scheme. Look at HHCD pursuit on Lynch's late runs and receptions for example.
If that's true, you're saying that HHCD's lack of pursuit and unbelievable cement shoes/brainfart on the 2-point coversion is the coaches' fault?
I can't agree with that. Make the fucking play and win the game.

[pbmax]

Rodgers does have very free reign to audible, but if its a run call and there is no pass call, he can check the run to the other side or move blocking around but that would be it. McCarthy can tell him not to pass and that looks like exactly what was done.

Not to mention that one of the series there were no wide receivers out wide. It was 2 TEs and a FB. There aren't many pass options in that formation.

[mraynrand]

If that's true, you're saying that HHCD's lack of pursuit and unbelievable brainfart on the 2-point coversion is the coaches' fault?
I can't agree with that. Make the fucking play and win the game.

Not the coach's fault directly or absolutely. But if they switch to a prevent mode, I think it's inevitable that the players respond to that mentality. It was too early. Shoulda stayed aggressive. But coaches worry about desperate teams in four down territory and adjust to that too. So it's not a simple equation.

Still on the 2 point conversion, there was shell shock there, the QB was well defensed and HHCD just made a physical error (misjudged the ball) and was unlucky - undoubtably the wind carried that thing.

[vince]

Not the coach's fault directly or absolutely. But if they switch to a prevent mode, I think it's inevitable that the players respond to that mentality. It was too early. Shoulda stayed aggressive. But coaches worry about desperate teams in four down territory and adjust to that too. So it's not a simple equation.

Still on the 2 point conversion, there was shell shock there, the QB was well defensed and HHCD just made a physical error (misjudged the ball) and was unlucky - undoubtably the wind carried that thing.
I can agree with that but the emotionally driven overreaction on the other side is ridiculous. It was a horrendous sequence but being apolgists for the players who didn't execute is missing the boat in my opinion. They were the better team for most of the game and should have been the better team for the whole game. Shell shock at the end was brought on by Bostick 100 times more than any strategic coaching effort to control the clock.

[Striker]

I can agree with that but the emotionally driven overreaction on the other side is ridiculous. It was a horrendous sequence but being apolgists for the players who didn't execute is missing the boat in my opinion. They were the better team for most of the game and should have been the better team for the whole game. Shell shock at the end was brought on by Bostick 100 times more than any strategic coaching effort to control the clock.

It's on the coaches and players. The mentality trickles down, and it's on the coaches to knock some sense into them if they do appear to be letting up.

[mraynrand]

Shell shock at the end was brought on by Bostick 100 times more than any strategic coaching effort to control the clock.

Maybe. But the change in defensive mentality preceded the onside kick.

[red]

i said in the game day thread after the second FG from the 1 that i thought we had just lost the game

i play action would have been perfect there

really though, if you're in that situation when the coach is telling you that we have to run the ball to kill the clock, or you really gonna throw that out the window and change things up?

if a rod has the ability to do whatever he wants, then why even have the idiot on the sideline calling plays?

[pbmax]

i said in the game day thread after the second FG from the 1 that i thought we had just lost the game

i play action would have been perfect there

really though, if you're in that situation when the coach is telling you that we have to run the ball to kill the clock, or you really gonna throw that out the window and change things up?

if a rod has the ability to do whatever he wants, then why even have the idiot on the sideline calling plays?

How much play action did you see once Rodgers reinsured his calf?

The only thing they were doing was a mesh handoff option throw. That can hold one player, it doesn't hold both backers like a PA from the center.

[red]

How much play action did you see once Rodgers reinsured his calf?

The only thing they were doing was a mesh handoff option throw. That can hold one player, it doesn't hold both backers like a PA from the center.

he was moving around in the pocket just fine though

and that fact that we hadn't seen any play action since he got hurt means it would have been a perfect time for it

[woodbuck27]

Media and fan emotion characterizations don't make it real.

Everyone watching could feel the Packers losing control of the game. The question was could they hang onto enough to hold them off. They needed to punch the Seahawks in the mouth and out-execute them to get to the game's end.

I think momentum is real in football and Seattle obviously had it at the end but you gotta fight to offset and and get it back. Seattle's pretty good at keeping it when they get it.

Yes.

Once a team tightens up in any sport it relinquishes all control to the aggressiveness of the other.

That is so true in the game we love. Hockey. You must not get back on your heals.

It's much the same in football.

[King Friday]

The Packers DIDN'T "LET UP". They fought their asses off and fucked up the game at the same time.

They were taking knees after INTs with 5 minutes left in the game...then went to run-run-run-punt.

That is the Webster's dictionary definition to the letter of "letting up".

AARON FUCKING RODGERS IS THE BEST QB IN THE GAME...YOU PAY HIM FUCKING RIDICULOUS MONEY...SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SCARED TO LET HIM ACTUALLY USE A REGULAR OFFENSE WHEN IT COUNTS TO WIN A GAME?

Nah...why do that? Let's run-run-run-punt and hope our prevent defense is capable of stopping anyone inside of 90 seconds...and then hope our special teams knows what a football looks like and which team jersey is which.

[Infamous]

RODGERS GAY TAIL IS A MO'FO BEAST!!

fatboy McCarthy is sabotaging his career...

BRING BLACK RHODES!!!

[King Friday]

How much play action did you see once Rodgers reinsured his calf?

Did he get a discount double check?

They could not run conventional play action with Rodgers' calf...not that McCarthy would actually ever think to use conventional play action even though it makes perfect sense to with what we have on offense.

[pbmax]

Did he get a discount double check?

They could not run conventional play action with Rodgers' calf...not that McCarthy would actually ever think to use conventional play action even though it makes perfect sense to with what we have on offense.

He runs it all the time, just not with the fanatical devotion of Gary Kubiak or Boomer Esiason. I will say I wish he ran it more in the red zone.

[King Friday]

He runs it all the time, just not with the fanatical devotion of Gary Kubiak or Boomer Esiason. I will say I wish he ran it more in the red zone.

He doesn't run conventional play action...which is especially useful in the red zone. That is why our red zone offense is horrific. He runs play action out of the shotgun and all this other silly stuff. How many times did he actually run a play action fake this year when Lacy and Kuhn were lined up behind Rodgers? I'm guessing you could count the number with one hand with a few fingers left over.

[pbmax]

He doesn't run conventional play action...which is especially useful in the red zone. That is why our red zone offense is horrific. He runs play action out of the shotgun and all this other silly stuff. How many times did he actually run a play action fake this year when Lacy and Kuhn were lined up behind Rodgers? I'm guessing you could count the number with one hand with a few fingers left over.

I google packer play action and got this on the first link:

As he almost always does, Rodgers still managed to take a shot -- and connect on it -- down the field to Nelson. On a play-action shot play in the fourth quarter, Rodgers hit Jordy Nelson for a 60-yard touchdown. It was Nelson's seventh touchdown catch of 40-plus yards this season, which tied a team record.

Do you want me to continue?

[Freak Out]

RODGERS GAY TAIL IS A MO'FO BEAST!!

fatboy McCarthy is sabotaging his career...

BRING BLACK RHODES!!!

RESURECTION!