JS ARTICLE "WITH SB IN SIGHT< RODGERS DOES NOT DELIVER

[Bretsky]

Interesting Breakdown by the Dobber

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/with-super-bowl-in-sight-aaron-rodgers-didnt-deliver-b99431306z1-289705111.html

[woodbuck27]

This article is about TRUTH and in terms of Aaron Rodgers hopefully turns on 'the request for more' light. It's not only accurate but hard hitting journalism that many in here cannot deal with in terms of 'yes Bob McGinn nailed it'.

There is 'no excuse' for losing. There is 'no gain' after losing in playing the blame game. The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history should be all that's needed to do all that's necessary for the proper response next season.

Win the Super Bowl.

The potential for Aaron Rodgers is incredible. He's reached his peak and the time to take advantage of that is now. The question is:

Will Aaron Rodgers ever answer the bell again to get to that last round and win?

The NFL HOF expects more of a response from Aaron Rodgers. Greatness only lives through great performances. Can Aaron Rodgers perform again on that stage?

[Pugger]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

[Joemailman]

McGinn barely mentions Rodgers' injury, and even then he reduces it to Rodgers being trapped in the pocket. It was much more than that. I think the injury affected his throws, and also affected how Seattle played defense. They did not need to worry about Rodgers taking off and running, or even buy a lot of time by rolling out. Rodgers is classy enough not to use the injury as an excuse for his play, which makes him a good target for McGinn.

McGinn also does not mention that with the score 19-7 McCarthy took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. By the time Rodgers got the ball back, the Packers were down 22-19. He then led the Packers 48 yards in just over a minute for the tying field goal, completing 3-5 passes for 36 yards and limping for a 12 yard run. It was not Rodgers' best performance. But the team was up 19-7 with 5 minutes to go, and the fact that they blew it had nothing to do with Rodgers.

[Pugger]

McGinn barely mentions Rodgers' injury, and even then he reduces it to Rodgers being trapped in the pocket. It was much more than that. I think the injury affected his throws, and also affected how Seattle played defense. They did not need to worry about Rodgers taking off and running, or even buy a lot of time by rolling out. Rodgers is classy enough not to use the injury as an excuse for his play, which makes him a good target for McGinn.

McGinn also does not mention that with the score 19-7 McCarthy took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. By the time Rodgers got the ball back, the Packers were down 22-19. He then led the Packers 48 yards in just over a minute for the tying field goal, completing 3-5 passes for 36 yards and limping for a 12 yard run. It was not Rodgers' best performance. But the team was up 19-7 with 5 minutes to go, and the fact that they blew it had nothing to do with Rodgers.

Not many want to discuss Rodgers' injury and how it affected the game. When I tried to on another forum I was chastised for making excuses. But you are right, Aaron's injury hurt is accuracy and his lack of mobility changed the way Seattle defended us and took away one of the main things that makes Rodgers the most dangerous QB in the league for our adversaries to beat.

[woodbuck27]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

Pugger you won't get jumped on here because too many see it as you do. The trouble is you cannot will things away. It is exactly what it is.

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.



** "Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF?" Pugger

I don't believe this loss is a defining event that will necessarily cause Aaron Rodgers from being legitimately in the conversation as a future NFL HOF candidate.



** " Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? " Pugger

Aaron Rodgers and retiring today isn't realistic as a topic of discussion. His contract and a chance for redemption after this ugly loss is all that Aaron Rodgers needs to come back next season.

As his playoff record stands at present, Aaron Rodgers needs to demonstrate more accomplishment to make the NFL HOF.



** " These are not pertinent questions at all. " Pugger

Excuse me but if the questions aren't pertinent why ask them in your post?

[woodbuck27]

Not many want to discuss Rodgers' injury and how it affected the game. When I tried to on another forum I was chastised for making excuses. But you are right, Aaron's injury hurt is accuracy and his lack of mobility changed the way Seattle defended us and took away one of the main things that makes Rodgers the most dangerous QB in the league for our adversaries to beat.

Bob McGinn certainly comments on Aaron Rodgers mobility issues in his article.

** "In the third quarter, Rodgers stepped funny on a second-down screen to Eddie Lacy that promised to be a long gainer. It's like Rodgers instantly fell apart, bailed and missed the simple 10-yard throw and, after he held the ball too long (4.4 seconds) for a third-down sack, out trotted the punt team."



** "Rodgers finally came alive on two 15-yard completions and a 12-yard scramble to the Seattle 36. Thirty-five seconds remained."


** " How much was Rodgers limited by his calf injury? You could see he felt trapped inside the pocket at times, and the Seahawks cover initially extremely well.

Rodgers did have the capacity to run fast and extend plays to his heart's content in the Sept. 4 defeat at CenturyLink Field. He was equally ineffective that night, too." Bob McGinn


** " In Rodgers' six postseason victories, his passer rating of 111.8 is 38.4 points higher than the opposing quarterbacks.

In his five defeats, Rodgers' rating of 89.4 is 9.1 points lower than the opposition. Warner, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick (twice) and Wilson also have combined to outrush him, 314-130. "

[Bretsky]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.



I've said this in another thread.............can u think of any worse ? I can't.

[woodbuck27]

But is this really the worst defeat in Packer history or does it just seem this way because it so recent and we are still in mourning? Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF? Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? These are not pertinent questions at all. I'm just curious what the consensus is with everyone here.

What do Packerrats think in regards to your first question above:

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27567-Worst-Packer-playoff-loss-ever

[pbmax]

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.


The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history

These are not the same things. One is a number for one set of games that has existed for precisely 46 years and 46 games (NFC Championship).

The other is the subjective measure of the worst outcome in the entire history of the Green Bay Packers franchise. All 1339 games.

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just muddled thinking.


EDIT: My typing was middled.

[hoosier]

In Rodgers' six postseason victories, his passer rating of 111.8 is 38.4 points higher than the opposing quarterbacks.

In his five defeats, Rodgers' rating of 89.4 is 9.1 points lower than the opposition. Warner, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick (twice) and Wilson also have combined to outrush him, 314-130.

Rodgers's QB rating is lower than the opponents in games the Packers have lost, and higher than the opp in games they have won? Shocking, simply shocking.

[hoosier]

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just middled thinking.

Middled thinking, I like that. It conjures up the image of a squirrel in the middle of the road facing oncoming traffic, trying to go both ways at the same time. Fortuitous typo. :-)

[pbmax]

And really Bob? When he wins he plays better and when he loses he plays worse? Why doesn't he just play better ALL-THE-TIME?

Must be his fire, girfriend or commercials. Newspapers won't be revived by rampaging stupidity.

"In multiple seasons, from 1980 to 2014, in the Playoffs, requiring Pass Attempts >= 75, sorted by descending Passer Rating." More than 75 passes to weed out one game wonders or RBs who threw an option pass in 3 different games. This removed Lynn Dickey, unfortunately (playoff passer rating of 101.8)


Rk From To Lg Tm G W L T W-L% Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
1 Jeff Hostetler 1990 1993 NFL TOT 5 4 1 0 0.800 72 115 62.61 1034 7 0 112.0 8.99 10.21
2 Alex Smith 2011 2013 NFL TOT 3 1 2 0 0.333 66 114 57.89 873 9 0 108.6 7.66 9.24
3 Kurt Warner 1999 2009 NFL TOT 13 9 4 0 0.692 307 462 66.45 3952 31 14 102.8 8.55 8.53
4 Aaron Rodgers 2007 2014 NFL GNB 12 7 5 0 0.583 253 387 65.37 2983 23 7 101.0 7.71 8.08
5 Drew Brees 2004 2013 NFL TOT 11 6 5 0 0.545 306 464 65.95 3539 24 6 100.7 7.63 8.08
6 Ken Anderson 1981 1982 NFL CIN 4 2 2 0 0.500 79 112 70.54 1007 7 5 100.6 8.99 8.23
7 Erik Kramer 1991 1994 NFL TOT 4 1 3 0 0.250 91 130 70.00 999 6 3 98.2 7.68 7.57
8 Frank Reich 1990 1997 NFL TOT 7 4 3 0 0.571 67 104 64.42 783 7 3 97.6 7.53 7.58
9 Russell Wilson 2012 2014 NFL SEA 7 6 1 0 0.857 111 181 61.33 1573 10 5 96.3 8.69 8.55
10 Joe Montana* 1981 1994 NFL TOT 23 16 7 0 0.696 460 734 62.67 5772 45 21 95.6 7.86 7.80
11 Mark Sanchez 2009 2010 NFL NYJ 6 4 2 0 0.667 95 157 60.51 1155 9 3 94.3 7.36 7.64
12 Jeff George 1995 1999 NFL TOT 3 1 2 0 0.333 71 129 55.04 1001 9 3 93.8 7.76 8.11
13 Tony Romo 2006 2014 NFL DAL 6 2 4 0 0.333 114 185 61.62 1316 8 2 93.0 7.11 7.49
14 Matthew Stafford 2011 2014 NFL DET 2 0 2 0 0.000 56 85 65.88 703 4 3 92.4 8.27 7.62
15 Aaron Brooks 2000 2000 NFL NOR 2 1 1 0 0.500 46 77 59.74 561 6 3 92.0 7.29 7.09
16 Joe Theismann 1982 1984 NFL WAS 8 6 2 0 0.750 128 211 60.66 1782 11 7 91.4 8.45 8.00
17 Eli Manning 2005 2011 NFL NYG 11 8 3 0 0.727 219 356 61.52 2516 17 8 89.3 7.07 7.01
18 Joe Flacco 2008 2014 NFL RAV 15 10 5 0 0.667 253 447 56.60 3223 25 10 88.6 7.21 7.32
19 Tom Brady 2001 2014 NFL NWE 28 20 8 0 0.714 646 1035 62.42 7017 49 24 88.5 6.78 6.68
20 Peyton Manning 1999 2014 NFL TOT 24 11 13 0 0.458 598 935 63.96 6800 38 24 88.5 7.27 6.93
Rk From To Lg Tm G W L T W-L% Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
21 Troy Aikman* 1991 1999 NFL DAL 16 11 5 0 0.688 320 502 63.75 3849 23 17 88.3 7.67 7.06
22 Matt Schaub 2012 2012 NFL HTX 2 1 1 0 0.500 63 89 70.79 605 2 2 87.5 6.80 6.24
23 Colin Kaepernick 2012 2013 NFL SFO 6 4 2 0 0.667 94 162 58.02 1374 7 5 87.3 8.48 7.96
24 Brett Favre 1993 2009 NFL TOT 24 13 11 0 0.542 481 791 60.81 5855 44 30 86.3 7.40 6.81
25 Steve Young* 1987 1998 NFL SFO 20 12 8 0 0.600 292 471 62.00 3326 20 13 85.8 7.06 6.67
26 Philip Rivers 2006 2013 NFL SDG 9 4 5 0 0.444 164 272 60.29 2165 11 9 85.2 7.96 7.28
27 Matt Ryan 2008 2012 NFL ATL 5 1 4 0 0.200 124 187 66.31 1230 9 7 85.2 6.58 5.86
28 Warren Moon* 1987 1994 NFL TOT 10 3 7 0 0.300 259 403 64.27 2870 17 14 84.9 7.12 6.40
29 Rich Gannon 1987 2002 NFL TOT 10 5 5 0 0.500 154 240 64.17 1691 11 9 84.6 7.05 6.28
30 Matt Hasselbeck 2003 2010 NFL SEA 11 5 6 0 0.455 236 406 58.13 2741 18 9 84.2 6.75 6.64

[pbmax]

What has changed is that defenses have adjusted to this offense since late 2011 and its still not clear the Packers have adjusted (though there have been signs) and the changing of the receiver corp has meant that it seems possible now to game plan the Packer passing attack away with a talented Defense.

And as mentioned above by Joe, the idea that you need to "get back" to pinpoint passing by looking off Troy Polamalu and throwing it behind his earhole is great, if your leg was functioning.

This is just trolling.

There are things he has to work on. He still doesn't look short fast enough, and he still holds onto the ball too long while rarely throwing it away. And something in their audible system has gone awry, I saw Rodgers check into more bad runs this year than ever before. But this is a team issue, not a QB issue.

The fact of the matter is that Dom Capers has out-coordinated McCarthy at the end of the season two years in a row.

[woodbuck27]

These are not the same things. One is a number for one set of games that has existed for precisely 46 years and 46 games (NFC Championship).

The other is the subjective measure of the worst outcome in the entire history of the Green Bay Packers franchise. All 1339 games.

That you think the worst defeat in the history has been reported as *FACT* by the NFC Championship factoid is just muddled thinking.


EDIT: My typing was middled.

Originally Posted by woodbuck27

" The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history" woodbuck27

I withdraw that remark as it would be a mere opinion.


As to the rest of it:

Last Sunday It was reported that the Green Bay Packers suffered the worst comeback in NFC Championship history.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27567-Worst-Packer-playoff-loss-ever

The above says that 12 of 17 Packerrats feel last Sundays collapse in Seattle was the worst playoff loss of 8 prominent losses in the Packers more recent history.

I suffered through the Packers history following Super Bowls I and II. I'm certainly well aware of many poor performances before the team won another Super Bowl or Super Bowl XXXI. That was almost 3 decades of disappointment.

[Freak Out]

The Packers with a healthy Rodgers destroys the Chickens in that game.. My take.

[Freak Out]

What has changed is that defenses have adjusted to this offense since late 2011 and its still not clear the Packers have adjusted (though there have been signs) and the changing of the receiver corp has meant that it seems possible now to game plan the Packer passing attack away with a talented Defense.

And as mentioned above by Joe, the idea that you need to "get back" to pinpoint passing by looking off Troy Polamalu and throwing it behind his earhole is great, if your leg was functioning.

This is just trolling.

There are things he has to work on. He still doesn't look short fast enough, and he still holds onto the ball too long while rarely throwing it away. And something in their audible system has gone awry, I saw Rodgers check into more bad runs this year than ever before. But this is a team issue, not a QB issue.

The fact of the matter is that Dom Capers has out-coordinated McCarthy at the end of the season two years in a row.

Dom for HC. :)

[pbmax]

Originally Posted by woodbuck27

" The worst defeat in Green Bay Packer history" woodbuck27

I withdraw that remark as it would be a mere opinion.


As to the rest of it:

Last Sunday It was reported that the Green Bay Packers suffered the worst comeback in NFC Championship history.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27567-Worst-Packer-playoff-loss-ever

The above says that 12 of 17 Packerrats feel last Sundays collapse in Seattle was the worst playoff loss of 8 prominent losses in the Packers more recent history.

I suffered through the Packers history following Super Bowls I and II. I'm certainly well aware of many poor performances before the team won another Super Bowl or Super Bowl XXXI. That was almost 3 decades of disappointment.

45 years of fan memories is impressive. But it also skips the 45 years before that. And there has been somewhere between 42 and 46 NFC Championship games. Really small sample size.

As for the 12 of 17, a survey immediately after the game is a terrible way to put a loss into perspective.

But, in terms of the article, the rank of terribleness in this loss is immaterial to the main point. Rodgers poor play is indicative of several things. Its not indicative that he needs to be an even bigger part of the team.

[Pugger]

Pugger you won't get jumped on here because too many see it as you do. The trouble is you cannot will things away. It is exactly what it is.

This has been reported:

The Green Bay Packers suffered the greatest collapse in the second half, in NFC Championship history last Sunday in Seattle.

If you can disprove that please come back to us with the proof.



** "Do you believe this loss will prevent Rodgers from the HOF?" Pugger

I don't believe this loss is a defining event that will necessarily cause Aaron Rodgers from being legitimately in the conversation as a future NFL HOF candidate.



** " Do you think he even belongs with what he has accomplished thus far if he were to retire today seeing his record in the post season isn't all that stellar outside of 2010? " Pugger

Aaron Rodgers and retiring today isn't realistic as a topic of discussion. His contract and a chance for redemption after this ugly loss is all that Aaron Rodgers needs to come back next season.

As his playoff record stands at present, Aaron Rodgers needs to demonstrate more accomplishment to make the NFL HOF.



** " These are not pertinent questions at all. " Pugger

Excuse me but if the questions aren't pertinent why ask them in your post?

It may have been the biggest collapse in NFCC history but was it the worst in team history? I'd say December 7, 1980. The Chicago Bears beat Green Bay 61 - 7 was worse.

Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think right now if something happened to Rodgers and he had to retire tomorrow he hasn't accomplished enough to make the HOF?

Perhaps pertinent was the wrong adjective. I guess I meant I wasn't being cheeky asking these questions.

[mraynrand]

It's hard to see how the loss can be blamed significantly on Rodgers. Let's review. Packers are up by 12 and McCarthy calls two runs and pass to Q. Runs go nowhere and q drops a defensed pass. Rodgers doesn't see the ball again until the packers are down by three with about a minute left. Rodgers just leads them to a tying FG to force OT and never sees the ball again.

Could Rodgers have played better to put Seattle away earlier? I suppose, but many of the play calls were taken out of his hand - many red zone runs and no fourth down attempts. Plus, he was injured.

Because he's the QB, he'll shoulder more blame, but an objective analysis of the game shows he only contributed in part to the loss, and probably a lot less than poor defense and STs in the last 5 minutes and OT, and a lot less than play calling choices.

Generally, I think a game like this is more of a Rorschach test for fans. The more emotive fans will generally heap blame on Rodgers because they really don't understand football and/or are of very low mental wattage.

[Bretsky]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

[woodbuck27]

It may have been the biggest collapse in NFCC history but was it the worst in team history? I'd say December 7, 1980. The Chicago Bears beat Green Bay 61 - 7 was worse.

Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think right now if something happened to Rodgers and he had to retire tomorrow he hasn't accomplished enough to make the HOF?

Perhaps pertinent was the wrong adjective. I guess I meant I wasn't being cheeky asking these questions.

I'm not going to research 'the worst loss' in Green Bay Packers history. As I've already posted. Last Sundays collapse in Seattle wasn't the worst loss for the Packers; yet the worst defense of a solid lead in NFC Championship history since records have been kept on that.


" Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think right now if something happened to Rodgers and he had to retire tomorrow he hasn't accomplished enough to make the HOF? " Pugger

You don't get in the HOF on a sympathy vote or for quitting the game early. You get in the NFL HOF because your resume shouts HOF.

Aaron Rodgers hasn't accomplished enough to get into the NFL HOF. Again that's an opinion which is moot as he will continue as the Green Bay Packers QB.

[pbmax]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

That's because you are off your meds.

Also because its not your job to build a decent team :)

[Bretsky]

A 61-7 loss in a regular season game is a Fart in the Wind compared to the worst playoff collapse I've ever witnessed when a win meant a Super Bowl Birth

[Joemailman]

A 61-7 loss in a regular season game is a Fart in the Wind compared to the worst playoff collapse I've ever witnessed when a win meant a Super Bowl Birth

Yep. 61-7 was embarrassing, but just another loss for a lousy Packer team.

[Pugger]

I'm not going to research 'the worst loss' in Green Bay Packers history. As I've already posted. Last Sundays collapse in Seattle wasn't the worst loss for the Packers; yet the worst defense of a solid lead in NFC Championship history since records have been kept on that.


" Am I understanding you correctly that you don't think right now if something happened to Rodgers and he had to retire tomorrow he hasn't accomplished enough to make the HOF? " Pugger

You don't get in the HOF on a sympathy vote or for quitting the game early. You get in the NFL HOF because your resume shouts HOF.

Aaron Rodgers hasn't accomplished enough to get into the NFL HOF. Again that's an opinion which is moot as he will continue as the Green Bay Packers QB.

What in the hell are you talking about? When did Rodgers quit? I'm talking about the off chance he is forced to retire tomorrow because of injury. Good lord Woody. Aaron has said he'd love to play until he's 40 if he could.

He has the best regular season QB rating in NFL history, has the best INT to TD ratio, is a SB champ and SB MVP and will be a 2 time league MVP. IMO that is plenty to get him into the HOF should his career end today.

[Pugger]

Yep. 61-7 was embarrassing, but just another loss for a lousy Packer team.

All I meant was that was the worst loss in our franchise's history not including the post season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

McGinn also does not mention that with the score 19-7 McCarthy took the ball out of Rodgers' hands. By the time Rodgers got the ball back, the Packers were down 22-19. He then led the Packers 48 yards in just over a minute for the tying field goal, completing 3-5 passes for 36 yards and limping for a 12 yard run.

+1

[Maxie the Taxi]

Packers are up by 12 and McCarthy calls two runs and pass to Q. Runs go nowhere and q drops a defensed pass. Rodgers doesn't see the ball again until the packers are down by three with about a minute left. Rodgers just leads them to a tying FG to force OT and never sees the ball again.


+1

[red]

yeah, a-rod was off in the first half, but his coach didn't let him do a whole hell of a lot in the second half until the last drive

[denverYooper]

What has changed is that defenses have adjusted to this offense since late 2011 and its still not clear the Packers have adjusted (though there have been signs) and the changing of the receiver corp has meant that it seems possible now to game plan the Packer passing attack away with a talented Defense.

And as mentioned above by Joe, the idea that you need to "get back" to pinpoint passing by looking off Troy Polamalu and throwing it behind his earhole is great, if your leg was functioning.

This is just trolling.

There are things he has to work on. He still doesn't look short fast enough, and he still holds onto the ball too long while rarely throwing it away. And something in their audible system has gone awry, I saw Rodgers check into more bad runs this year than ever before. But this is a team issue, not a QB issue.

The fact of the matter is that Dom Capers has out-coordinated McCarthy at the end of the season two years in a row.

I wonder if Rodgers is going to start changing his approach soon. He's had some injuries now that have affected his last 2 seasons.

[Strange Brew]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

I'll drink to that!

[woodbuck27]

What in the hell are you talking about? When did Rodgers quit? I'm talking about the off chance he is forced to retire tomorrow because of injury. Good lord Woody. Aaron has said he'd love to play until he's 40 if he could.

He has the best regular season QB rating in NFL history, has the best INT to TD ratio, is a SB champ and SB MVP and will be a 2 time league MVP. IMO that is plenty to get him into the HOF should his career end today.

Your passion for Aaron Rodgers is noted. If your so confident why are you cursing?

[mraynrand]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

Crazy stuff here. Much rather lose bizarro last second crap than not be competitive. You guys are just totally spoiled.

[George Cumby]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

Wtf?

[Joemailman]

Crazy stuff here. Much rather lose bizarro last second crap than not be competitive. You guys are just totally spoiled.

If I were a coach or player I might agree. But as a fan, seeing my team blow a berth in the Super Bowl is more heartbreaking than another bad loss by a bad Packer team.

[mraynrand]

If I were a coach or player I might agree. But as a fan, seeing my team blow a berth in the Super Bowl is more heartbreaking than another bad loss by a bad Packer team.

your agony is gorgeous

[hoosier]

I wonder if Rodgers is going to start changing his approach soon. He's had some injuries now that have affected his last 2 seasons.

Both of them occurred while he was in the pocket, so unless changing his ways means spending less time there I am not sure that the recent past would justify a change. If his body were starting to break down then I could see him wanting to change his style, but I don't see evidence that either of these injuries is age related.

[ThunderDan]

I'd WAY rather lose 61-7 then what went down in Seattle

I wouldn't. Teams that lose 61-7 struggle to finish 4-12. I dealt with enough of that growing up. I like going to the playoffs almost every year and having a shot at reaching the Super Bowl.

[SkinBasket]

Some people still hate 12 because he's not 4, it appears.

What I don't understand is why Aaron Rodgers didn't prevent slavery in the United States. What a fucking dick move and an example of his me-first attitude.

[hoosier]

If I were a coach or player I might agree. But as a fan, seeing my team blow a berth in the Super Bowl is more heartbreaking than another bad loss by a bad Packer team.

More heartbreaking at the moment, no doubt. But an entire season does not have to be defined entirely by the team's last moment. If someone gives you the choice of experiencing one season and only one season, which would you take, the 2014 Packers or the 1980 Packers?

[woodbuck27]

I just looked at the 2nd half again and in terms of A. Rodgers performance I have him passing 7 of 13 for 63 yards.

Aaron Rodgers was sacked one time in the second half.

The Packers offense had three X Three and Outs.

The Packers offense had one X Four and Out.

He had one run right for 12 yards that helped set up the Mason Crosby's game tying FG late in the 4th Qtr.. That drive took one minute off the clock from 1:19 to :19.

In that drive Aaron Rodgers passed 3 of 5 for 36 yards. Jordy Nelson made two receptions for 15 and 6 yards. Randall Cobb made one reception for 15 yards between Nelson's two receptions..


** In the 4th Qtr. with 6:53 to 4:00 remaining on the clock the Green Bay Packers had two 3 and outs.

Aaron Rodgers passed once in those two series ... the drop by Andrew Quarless on the right sideline on a good throw. That ball had to be caught on a 3rd and 4 from the Green Bay 19 yard line. Aaron Rodgers seemed in disbelief that Andrew Quarless missed that pass. I certainly was.



**I cannot find against Aaron Rodgers in my examination of his play in the second half. His role in that half was obviously limited 'only' making 13 pass's.

[Joemailman]

More heartbreaking at the moment, no doubt. But an entire season does not have to be defined entirely by the team's last moment. If someone gives you the choice of experiencing one season and only one season, which would you take, the 2014 Packers or the 1980 Packers?

2014. But 61-7 didn't really matter. It was loss #8 in a 10 loss season. The Apococollapse kept the Packers out of the Super Bowl.

[Patler]

You can forget everything earlier and focus on just the final drive. A legend would be cemented by Rodgers driving the team to a final TD, and the win. He started out fantastically, but couldn't seal the deal when the drive fizzled out with two incomplete passes and a throw short of the first down. You can question (second-guess) his decision on each of the final three plays:

- On first down, knowing the critical nature of the situation, and with positive yardage in front of him, gimpy or not, should he have just kept the ball, picked up whatever yardage he could, and not risk the incomplete pass?

- On second down, some say he had lots of running room again, and/or he had Adams wide open on the opposite side. Did he pick the worst of three options?

- On third down, no one else to throw to already in 1st down territory?

We've all seen athletes come through in the most dire of situations, sometimes throwing caution to the wind regarding their own injuries, and doing everything they can to win the game. We've seen athletes make astounding plays, finding opportunities most would not. We've seen athletes take huge gambles to win the game. For whatever reason, Rodgers did none of those in his final three plays. Was he too cautious? Should he have been more daring with his own well-being and with the plays he went to?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, but there is no disputing that an opportunity to win was there, and Rodgers delivered only the tie, which proved to be inadequate.

[Joemailman]

Both of them occurred while he was in the pocket, so unless changing his ways means spending less time there I am not sure that the recent past would justify a change. If his body were starting to break down then I could see him wanting to change his style, but I don't see evidence that either of these injuries is age related.

Rodgers may have been in the pocket when he broke his collarbone, but he held on to the ball a long time. I don't recall how he originally injured his calf.

I actually think he showed some improvement this year at getting rid of the ball more quickly.

[pbmax]

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, but there is no disputing that an opportunity to win was there, and Rodgers delivered only the tie, which proved to be inadequate.

Which would be about the same conclusion you would draw about the last offensive drive in ANY close game a team loses. Which makes it virtually useless as analysis.

I think, rather than blame the QB for not being the hero in a situation where the leverage is against him (the one thing the Seattle D couldn't do was allow a TD, it was happy with a FG attempt), is why the coach puts his offense in that situation way too often and usually too early.

Players do need to make plays, but far too often the offense and defense have to reverse course in order to prevent what was unlikely just a few drives before.

[Patler]

Which would be about the same conclusion you would draw about the last offensive drive in ANY close game a team loses. Which makes it virtually useless as analysis.

No, it is not useless as analysis. In fact, it is very cut a dried, especially if you subscribe to the theory that QBs make the league, team and coach. They are paid for just those situations.


I think, rather than blame the QB for not being the hero in a situation where the leverage is against him (the one thing the Seattle D couldn't do was allow a TD, it was happy with a FG attempt), is why the coach puts his offense in that situation way too often and usually too early.

Players do need to make plays, but far too often the offense and defense have to reverse course in order to prevent what was unlikely just a few drives before.

No one is BLAMING Rodgers for not coming through; just remarking that as the key player in the most critical situation, he did not deliver. He had the ball in his hand for three consecutive plays and could not gain 10 yards when it was needed the most. I could pass it off like you have, and maybe I should; but for discussion purposes it can not be ignored that he may have made poor decisions in at least two, and maybe all three of the plays.


How about Russell Wilson the two series before, he came through twice when the Packer D could do almost anything but allow TDs. Two separate drives, and they didn't even slow him down.

In many ways, you can ignore everything before that. It all came down to a final drive. some might say he made three successive bad plays, which sealed their fate. In three successive drives in the same situation (perhaps even more dire) Wilson came through again, and again and again.

It's not blame, it's fact. It may not be entirely his fault, but that does not change the fact.

[pbmax]

Rodgers may have been in the pocket when he broke his collarbone, but he held on to the ball a long time. I don't recall how he originally injured his calf.

I actually think he showed some improvement this year at getting rid of the ball more quickly.

Hamstring and calf injuries occurred out of pocket. If we go back to other years, one concussion occurred out of the pocket.

[woodbuck27]

Which would be about the same conclusion you would draw about the last offensive drive in ANY close game a team loses. Which makes it virtually useless as analysis.

I think, rather than blame the QB for not being the hero in a situation where the leverage is against him (the one thing the Seattle D couldn't do was allow a TD, it was happy with a FG attempt), is why the coach puts his offense in that situation way too often and usually too early.

Players do need to make plays, but far too often the offense and defense have to reverse course in order to prevent what was unlikely just a few drives before.


What are you saying pbmax!? The 'Packer Pucker' really harmed Packer Nation. There's no accounting for all the (hopefully temporary damage) it's done to even the best Packer forum posters.

I don't mean insult pbmax but that post reminds me so much of this fella. How he might view your post? :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCsiWL6gn0

Foghorn Leghorn Rant!

[woodbuck27]

You can forget everything earlier and focus on just the final drive. A legend would be cemented by Rodgers driving the team to a final TD, and the win. He started out fantastically, but couldn't seal the deal when the drive fizzled out with two incomplete passes and a throw short of the first down. You can question (second-guess) his decision on each of the final three plays:

- On first down, knowing the critical nature of the situation, and with positive yardage in front of him, gimpy or not, should he have just kept the ball, picked up whatever yardage he could, and not risk the incomplete pass?

- On second down, some say he had lots of running room again, and/or he had Adams wide open on the opposite side. Did he pick the worst of three options?

- On third down, no one else to throw to already in 1st down territory?

We've all seen athletes come through in the most dire of situations, sometimes throwing caution to the wind regarding their own injuries, and doing everything they can to win the game. We've seen athletes make astounding plays, finding opportunities most would not. We've seen athletes take huge gambles to win the game. For whatever reason, Rodgers did none of those in his final three plays. Was he too cautious? Should he have been more daring with his own well-being and with the plays he went to?

I don't know the answers to any of those questions, but there is no disputing that an opportunity to win was there, and Rodgers delivered only the tie, which proved to be inadequate.

Before that last drive Vs Seattle:

Aaron Rodgers had 12 game winning drives in 37 opportunities. That's a 32.34 % success rate.

[hoosier]

2014. But 61-7 didn't really matter. It was loss #8 in a 10 loss season. The Apococollapse kept the Packers out of the Super Bowl.

Agreed, 61-7 wasn't the worst defeat in Packer history by any stretch, unless you're just measuring point differential.

[pbmax]

Unless the NFL decides to play OT rules for all game starting in the 1st quarter, then one drive is useless to determine whether a QB comes up short.

Parse it for signs of good (or bad) decision making? Sure.

But that is not the point of the article, OP or the previous commentary. Rodgers not delivering a Super Bowl berth covers the entire game and parses each failure along the way. Not to mention that in hindsight the FG was not enough. But it certainly seemed like a good idea at the time. A turnover was death at that point.

[pbmax]

What are you saying pbmax!? The 'Packer Pucker' really harmed Packer Nation. There's no accounting for all the (hopefully temporary damage) it's done to even the best Packer forum posters.

I don't mean insult pbmax but that post reminds me so much of this fella. How he might view your post? :

[viddeo]

I have no idea how Foghorn Leghorn views the 4 minute offense, but I have long thought that taking the air completely out of the ball is not an ideal strategy. And that in some games, M3 goes too early to this approach. Even in this game, up by more than one score with under 5 minutes left, the clock isn't everything, even if its the most important thing. Possession still counts.

There is a reason McCarthy quoted those run numbers (hopefully he doesn't view it as suggestions). When you have the lead, the offense tends to run more to bleed clock. There can be value to drain TOs and clock even if you gain no yardage, but it does surrender possession and field position, which are costs to the team with the lead.

[woodbuck27]

I have no idea how Foghorn Leghorn views the 4 minute offense, but I have long thought that taking the air completely out of the ball is not an ideal strategy. And that in some games, M3 goes too early to this approach. Even in this game, up by more than one score with under 5 minutes left, the clock isn't everything, even if its the most important thing. Possession still counts.

There is a reason McCarthy quoted those run numbers (hopefully he doesn't view it as suggestions). When you have the lead, the offense tends to run more to bleed clock. There can be value to drain TOs and clock even if you gain no yardage, but it does surrender possession and field position, which are costs to the team with the lead.

It sure looks to me that with 7:07 remaining in the 4th quarter a decision was made to remove Clay Matthews from the game. For something around 20 minutes 'real time' Clay was on the sidelines and for part of that wearing his Winter toque (2:57 remaining in the 4th Qtr.) that does come off as he's looking mighty concerned with (2:01) remaining in the 4th Qtr.

1-10-GB 35 (2:01) 24-M.Lynch right end to GB 32 for 3 yards (42-M.Burnett).

Two plays later Marshawn Lynch is in the end zone for six...and that followed by:

TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. 3-R.Wilson pass to 82-L.Willson is complete. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

The SCORE Seattle 22 - Green Bay 19.

[Patler]

Unless the NFL decides to play OT rules for all game starting in the 1st quarter, then one drive is useless to determine whether a QB comes up short.

Parse it for signs of good (or bad) decision making? Sure.

But that is not the point of the article, OP or the previous commentary. Rodgers not delivering a Super Bowl berth covers the entire game and parses each failure along the way. Not to mention that in hindsight the FG was not enough. But it certainly seemed like a good idea at the time. A turnover was death at that point.

A turnover then or anytime thereafter was pretty much it, as was a turnover during any of the three previous plays. You can't play the game expecting to turn it over if you play anyway but the most cautiously.

[mraynrand]

It sure looks to me that with 7:07 remaining in the 4th quarter a decision was made to remove Clay Matthews from the game. For something around 20 minutes 'real time' Clay was on the sidelines and for part of that wearing his Winter toque (2:57 remaining in the 4th Qtr.) that does come off as he's looking mighty concerned with (2:01) remaining in the 4th Qtr.

1-10-GB 35 (2:01) 24-M.Lynch right end to GB 32 for 3 yards (42-M.Burnett).

Two plays later Marshawn Lynch is in the end zone for six...and that followed by:

TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. 3-R.Wilson pass to 82-L.Willson is complete. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.

The SCORE Seattle 22 - Green Bay 19.


Where was Rodgers when all this failure was happening? Why didn't he stop it?

[pbmax]

A turnover then or anytime thereafter was pretty much it, as was a turnover during any of the three previous plays. You can't play the game expecting to turn it over if you play anyway but the most cautiously.

Once you are in FG territory, a TO is a game reversal, game ending error.

Prior to being in FG territory, its game ending only.

[pbmax]

Unless the NFL decides to play OT rules for all game starting in the 1st quarter, then one drive is useless to determine whether a QB comes up short.

Parse it for signs of good (or bad) decision making? Sure.

But that is not the point of the article, OP or the previous commentary. Rodgers not delivering a Super Bowl berth covers the entire game and parses each failure along the way. Not to mention that in hindsight the FG was not enough. But it certainly seemed like a good idea at the time. A turnover was death at that point.

Not to mention that I think the article starts its own clock ticking after the Super Bowl win.

If only Rodgers was a better winner when the game was close, between 4 and 7 points.

Oh, and we will just gloss over the "solid" qualification for his play in the Chicago NFC Championship Game when he was terrible after the undiagnosed concussion Peppers gave him.

[mraynrand]

Upon further review, Bob McGinn is a cock. If he were posting on Packerrats, KY would be screaming to have Madtown ban him for being a troll. Bob probably has some "Ted trapped in the closet" poetry somewhere in the back of his desk.

"Today's NFL is set up as a quarterback's game. He has the ball in his hands on every play. No one can affect the scoreboard like him."
- Well, Bob, not actually. The Center has his hand on every offensive play. Interestingly, the Packers lost because Rodgers was NOT on the field for any of the defensive snaps, or the ST play where Bostick couldn't recover.
Bob doesn't like the blame game, except when he gets to assign blame.
Bob, except for his scouting report and post-game rating (and even sometimes in those) has turned into a poking internet troll. Fortunately, unlike KY/Tank, I can mostly ignore him.

[Pugger]

Your passion for Aaron Rodgers is noted. If your so confident why are you cursing?

I guess I curse here just to fit in with the rest.

[Patler]

Once you are in FG territory, a TO is a game reversal, game ending error.

Prior to being in FG territory, its game ending only.

A difference without a distinction. Either way you lose. Besides, having 1st and 10 at the 36 likely was not yet in FG territory. That would have been a 54 yard attempt, perhaps not reachable in the rain and swirling winds at Seattle.

[MadtownPacker]

Your passion for Aaron Rodgers is noted. If your so confident why are you cursing?
Don't start this bullshit Woody. Talk, fight, whatever the fuck you want but don't for one second think you run shit here in any way, shape, or form. Pug can cuss if she wants. Are we clear?

[MadtownPacker]

U
Upon further review, Bob McGinn is a cock. If he were posting on Packerrats, KY would be screaming to have Madtown ban him for being a troll. Bob probably has some "Ted trapped in the closet" poetry somewhere in the back of his desk.Same applies to you. If you don't like something that was done here then go to the top right of your screen and click where it says "log off" and don't bother coming to this place since such a huge injustice occurred. Whatever is done and over. This site is not here for you to voice your opinion about how shit is dealt with here. Back the fuck off KYPack. He is a good member of this place and you aren't going to dog him. Yes? No?? Let me know.

[pbmax]

A difference without a distinction. Either way you lose. Besides, having 1st and 10 at the 36 likely was not yet in FG territory. That would have been a 54 yard attempt, perhaps not reachable in the rain and swirling winds at Seattle.

Not at all. Virtually any risk is worth taking to get in FG range. To fail to get there is a loss. A turnover is loss. The only differential is making enough yardage to get a FG.

Once there, then incomplete or failed runs may ruin your chance to win, but only a turnover prevents you from an attempt to tie and play on. I don't know what Crosby's range was that day, but at the 36 its better odds than in the other half of the field.

[Patler]

Not at all. Virtually any risk is worth taking to get in FG range. To fail to get there is a loss. A turnover is loss. The only differential is making enough yardage to get a FG.

Once there, then incomplete or failed runs may ruin your chance to win, but only a turnover prevents you from an attempt to tie and play on. I don't know what Crosby's range was that day, but at the 36 its better odds than in the other half of the field.

So, play to tie in bad whether in perhaps the most difficult environment in the league, just because you are at the 36 rather than the 40 or 42? Sorry, I don't buy that at all. Especially on the road, play to win and settle for the tie if you must.

[mraynrand]

USame applies to you. If you don't like something that was done here then go to the top right of your screen and click where it says "log off" and don't bother coming to this place since such a huge injustice occurred. Whatever is done and over. This site is not here for you to voice your opinion about how shit is dealt with here. Back the fuck off KYPack. He is a good member of this place and you aren't going to dog him. Yes? No?? Let me know.

dog eat dog, you know I speak the truth. But, as I've said before, go ahead and ban me whenever you please. You'll be doing me a favor. But for Crissakes, make it permanent.

[woodbuck27]

Don't start this bullshit Woody. Talk, fight, whatever the fuck you want but don't for one second think you run shit here in any way, shape, or form. Pug can cuss if she wants. Are we clear?

I don't care if Pugger curses Mad.

I'm not at all sure what you mean by 'run shit here'?

Did I really break some rule here with that post to Pugger? If so what rule was that?

That was merely a joke (a little dig) nothing more.

[mraynrand]

Don't start this bullshit Woody. Talk, fight, whatever the fuck you want but don't for one second think you run shit here in any way, shape, or form. Pug can cuss if she wants. Are we clear?

seemed like a reasonable question to me; he wasn't telling her not to cuss.

[wist43]

I still put almost all of the blame on the coaching staff... Rodgers played fine IMO. Seattle is a tough defense, bullets are flying - what killed us was idiotic decisions from the sideline and being choked with caution - that also eminated from the sidelines.

Both MM and dunderdummy went completely stupid in the final 5 minutes, and flubbed the game away. Unfortunately, I'm sure they've learned nothing, and will do the exact same things next time we are in that situation - if we are lucky enough to ever get back to that situation again with this regime.

They largely wasted Favre's career, and they are largely wasting Rodgers' career - it is what it is. We got two SB's out of 2 HOF QB's... we should have had more.

[mraynrand]

They largely wasted Favre's career.

Who are you talking about? McCarthy saved Favre's sinking career, as did TT. Capers never coached with Favre.

Favre was just as responsible as Packer leadership for 'wasting' his career (of course I would never consider his career wasted, since I don't based my evaluation on SB wins alone, as it seems many other do). What do they say - a leopard never changes it's spots - and neither did Favre, even with MN leadership.

But I agree, the coaches, the entire team did a face plant after the Burnett INT.

[woodbuck27]

I still put almost all of the blame on the coaching staff....

If any blame is to be laid it most deservedly should go right there.

Mike McCarthy and Dom Capers screwed up terribly in Seattle.

Dom Capers exists as the Packers DC because Mike McCarthy admires him.

Shawn Slocum exists because Mike McCarthy accepts comparative poor performance on ST's.

Going forward it's Mike McCarthy's responsibility to end the nonsense.

[pbmax]

So, play to tie in bad whether in perhaps the most difficult environment in the league, just because you are at the 36 rather than the 40 or 42? Sorry, I don't buy that at all. Especially on the road, play to win and settle for the tie if you must.

This is where it gets hard to parse. How much of the entire game's playcalling was an effort to protect that calf? His one big run cost him as he was even more immobile after it. In Dallas in the second half, moving more seemed to limber up his leg. In Seattle, it seemed to get worse from a movement standpoint.

The 35 is the most commonly cited yard marker for FG range, not including game and kicker conditions. So I don't think changing the plan at the 36 is far fetched at all. They have done it before immediately after entering scoring range.

[Patler]

The 35 is the most commonly cited yard marker for FG range, not including game and kicker conditions. So I don't think changing the plan at the 36 is far fetched at all. They have done it before immediately after entering scoring range.

Game decisions absolutely have to take into consideration the existing conditions. To ignore them is idiotic. I believe most of the coaches use the pregame opinion of the kickers and ST coaches to determine FG range for that day, and even modify it as conditions change. The 35 is for broadcasters and fans, not rule of thumb for coaches.

[Patler]

This is where it gets hard to parse. How much of the entire game's playcalling was an effort to protect that calf? His one big run cost him as he was even more immobile after it. In Dallas in the second half, moving more seemed to limber up his leg. In Seattle, it seemed to get worse from a movement standpoint.

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

[mraynrand]

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

How do you know he didn't?

[Patler]

How do you know he didn't?

I don't, anymore than you know he did. BUT, on first down, with a few yards ahead of him even at a slow trot, he elected to throw a pass into Lacy's back. That was very atypical Rodgers. On second down, according to some (haven't checked myself) he had another large running lane, but threw to a covered rookie instead. Again, atypical for Rodgers. So, I chose to surmise based on appearance, for the purpose of discussion on a fan site.

If you limit us to what we know for sure, none of us, including you, will have much to write on here.

[pbmax]

When trailing with less than two minutes left, there is nothing to protect. At that point, Rodgers himself needed to throw out caution, and do whatever he was able to, no matter how compromised by injury he was. There is no longer reason to be "smart" with it, as MM and his players are prone to say.

If throwing caution to the wind drops you to the ground (see Lions game), it has gained you nothing.

[mraynrand]

If you limit us to what we know for sure, none of us, including you, will have much to write on here.

Here we go again. Thanks for the lecture, Dad, I didn't know that.



I don't, anymore than you know he did. BUT, on first down, with a few yards ahead of him even at a slow trot, he elected to throw a pass into Lacy's back. That was very atypical Rodgers. On second down, according to some (haven't checked myself) he had another large running lane, but threw to a covered rookie instead. Again, atypical for Rodgers. So, I chose to surmise based on appearance, for the purpose of discussion on a fan site.

Both those moves are completely consistent with Rodgers being unable to run. On the game tying drive it was clear to me that he was laboring mightily to run. Both the toss to Lacy (not to his back) and to Rodgers (not on the same page, don't know who missed the check) made sense
to me. Either way, he wasn't playing for the FG, that much I feel certain about, and I think he was trying to make the best plays he could, knowing his running was extremely limited. The Lacy toss was unfortunate, because I think Lacy was turning and blocking expecting Rodgers to run, which happened enough before the injury that Lacy was probably reacting naturally.

Rodgers delivered just fine, especially based on the effect of the injury on formations, throwing, and running. Had he been totally healthy and played like he did, I would have been disappointed.

[MadtownPacker]

dog eat dog, you know I speak the truth. But, as I've said before, go ahead and ban me whenever you please. You'll be doing me a favor. But for Crissakes, make it permanent.As mentioned no one is asking for your truth or anyone elses regarding how things are done here. Your permission is not required just make another comment on it or towards KY about it and you can get what you desire. For all your accounts right?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Upon further review, Bob McGinn is a cock. If he were posting on Packerrats, KY would be screaming to have Madtown ban him for being a troll.

heee heee heee

[Harlan Huckleby]

just make another comment on it or towards KY about it and you can get what you desire.

Yet KY was allowed to obsessively, neurotically harass Tank in the football forum. Not only allowed, but you praised KY as upstanding citizen.

Tank - you claim it was your wish that he be allowed to stay.

I don't care a dick smoke about Tank. Caving to intolerance curls my toes - and not in a happy way.

[mraynrand]

As mentioned no one is asking for your truth or anyone elses regarding how things are done here. Your permission is not required just make another comment on it or towards KY about it and you can get what you desire. For all your accounts right?

it's up to you

[mraynrand]

...

Other than threads or posts revealing private and/or personal information about others members, PackerRats.com does not censor any threads or posts. However we do ask that you utilize all the rooms available for posting.

Example: If a subject is about football, post it in the Packers section. If you feel like talking about anything off topic, post it in the Romper Room section. This is not just a website decision, it was also overwhelmingly decided on by vote of PackerRats.com members. So if an off-topic thread is made in the Packers section it will be moved to the Romper Room section. No deletions, no questions asked, just categorized correctly.

[mraynrand]

Edited for rules (non-football information has been moved to an appropriate forum):


Upon further review, Bob McGinn is a cock. He is trollish

"Today's NFL is set up as a quarterback's game. He has the ball in his hands on every play. No one can affect the scoreboard like him."
- Well, Bob, not actually. The Center has his hand on every offensive play. Interestingly, the Packers lost because Rodgers was NOT on the field for any of the defensive snaps, or the ST play where Bostick couldn't recover.
Bob doesn't like the blame game, except when he gets to assign blame.
Bob, except for his scouting report and post-game rating (and even sometimes in those) has turned into a poking internet troll. Fortunately, unlike in other cases I can mostly ignore him.

[mraynrand]

...edited for rules:


xxxxxxxxx you know I speak the truth. xxxx xxxx xxxxxx

See the Romper room for non-football items

[Harlan Huckleby]

Let it go, Rand. Madtown barely speaks English, you can't expect him to be expert at refereeing squabbles.

I still love you, Madtown, but your mother and I are very dissappointed in your behavior

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/keanradio.com/files/2012/06/father-and-son.jpg

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Let it go, Rand. Madtown barely speaks English, you can't expect him to be expert at refereeing squabbles.

I still love you, Madtown, but your mother and I are very dissappointed in your behavior

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/keanradio.com/files/2012/06/father-and-son.jpg

Where the hell did you get a picture of me and my dad??

[Patler]

Here we go again. Thanks for the lecture, Dad, I didn't know that.

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.)



Both those moves are completely consistent with Rodgers being unable to run. On the game tying drive it was clear to me that he was laboring mightily to run. Both the toss to Lacy (not to his back) and to Rodgers (not on the same page, don't know who missed the check) made sense
to me. Either way, he wasn't playing for the FG, that much I feel certain about, and I think he was trying to make the best plays he could, knowing his running was extremely limited. The Lacy toss was unfortunate, because I think Lacy was turning and blocking expecting Rodgers to run, which happened enough before the injury that Lacy was probably reacting naturally.

Rodgers delivered just fine, especially based on the effect of the injury on formations, throwing, and running. Had he been totally healthy and played like he did, I would have been disappointed.

Laboring to run, yes, but on the previous play he was still able to run from the left hash mark to the right sideline, while picking up 12 yards up field and a first down. On the first down play to Lacy, he had already run from the pocket at the 44 to near the numbers at about the 40. I'm not questioning if he could have run for a touchdown, just if he could have turned up field from there, picked up a few yards, and slid or gotten out of bounds again. Just something positive on the play, at least.

I agree with your take on Lacy in the play on first down. It still hurts watching that again (which I just did). Complete the pass to Lacy, and he picks up positive yardage, maybe even a first down as he was running away from would be tacklers, and who knows how much after that? Once he gets rolling in the open field it often takes a bunch of tacklers over a significant distance to get him down. Alternatively, a healthy Rodgers runs a long way on that play.

As for 2nd down, where ever I read that AR had running room, was wrong, under the circumstances. A healthy Rodgers, maybe; but he was surrounded in a small pocket. If he could have gotten out, there was room, but only a healthy AR and a few other QBs could get out of that tight pocket. What he did miss was a wide open receiver on the left. Two lined up wide and crossed. Both DBs went with the one lined up inside when he went out. The outside receiver came in, with no one on him. Could have had a few easy yards anyway.

Just a few yards on first and/or second down, and third down becomes more makable for a 1st down. Did AR get as much out of those two plays as he could have? I don't know, but if the qustion is, "Did he deliver?" its easy to come to a conclusion of "No."

Third down - the entire right side of the field looked like it opened up, particularly if the receivers on that side were going deep. AR got out of the pocket and had no one visible on the screen in front of him. Could/should he have ran, in spite of his calf? I don't know, but it is something to discuss. Did he deliver?

As I said, I don't know the answers at all to these questions, but there was great fame and recognition right there to be had. AR didn't get it, that's a fact. Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess.

[mraynrand]

Let it go, Rand. Madtown barely speaks English, you can't expect him to be expert at refereeing squabbles.

https://hrexach.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/fro14.jpg?w=523

Probably good advice. Last post....?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Last post....?

http://permissiontokill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Long_Goodbye-poster1.jpg

[Freak Out]

http://permissiontokill.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Long_Goodbye-poster1.jpg

Great find HH.

[woodbuck27]

Let it go, Rand. Madtown barely speaks English, you can't expect him to be expert at refereeing squabbles.

I still love you, Madtown, but your mother and I are very dissappointed in your behavior


"Moon River"

Moon river, wider than a mile
I'm crossing you in style some day
Oh, dream maker, you heart breaker
Wherever you're going, I'm going your way

Two drifters, off to see the world
There's such a lot of world to see
We're after the same rainbow's end, waiting, round the bend
My Huckleberry Friend, Moon River, and me

[Pugger]

Who are you talking about? McCarthy saved Favre's sinking career, as did TT. Capers never coached with Favre.

Favre was just as responsible as Packer leadership for 'wasting' his career (of course I would never consider his career wasted, since I don't based my evaluation on SB wins alone, as it seems many other do). What do they say - a leopard never changes it's spots - and neither did Favre, even with MN leadership.

But I agree, the coaches, the entire team did a face plant after the Burnett INT.

I wouldn't place the blame entirely on the coaching staff either. The list of guilty parties is a long one.

[Pugger]

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.)




Laboring to run, yes, but on the previous play he was still able to run from the left hash mark to the right sideline, while picking up 12 yards up field and a first down. On the first down play to Lacy, he had already run from the pocket at the 44 to near the numbers at about the 40. I'm not questioning if he could have run for a touchdown, just if he could have turned up field from there, picked up a few yards, and slid or gotten out of bounds again. Just something positive on the play, at least.

I agree with your take on Lacy in the play on first down. It still hurts watching that again (which I just did). Complete the pass to Lacy, and he picks up positive yardage, maybe even a first down as he was running away from would be tacklers, and who knows how much after that? Once he gets rolling in the open field it often takes a bunch of tacklers over a significant distance to get him down. Alternatively, a healthy Rodgers runs a long way on that play.

As for 2nd down, where ever I read that AR had running room, was wrong, under the circumstances. A healthy Rodgers, maybe; but he was surrounded in a small pocket. If he could have gotten out, there was room, but only a healthy AR and a few other QBs could get out of that tight pocket. What he did miss was a wide open receiver on the left. Two lined up wide and crossed. Both DBs went with the one lined up inside when he went out. The outside receiver came in, with no one on him. Could have had a few easy yards anyway.

Just a few yards on first and/or second down, and third down becomes more makable for a 1st down. Did AR get as much out of those two plays as he could have? I don't know, but if the qustion is, "Did he deliver?" its easy to come to a conclusion of "No."

Third down - the entire right side of the field looked like it opened up, particularly if the receivers on that side were going deep. AR got out of the pocket and had no one visible on the screen in front of him. Could/should he have ran, in spite of his calf? I don't know, but it is something to discuss. Did he deliver?

As I said, I don't know the answers at all to these questions, but there was great fame and recognition right there to be had. AR didn't get it, that's a fact. Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess.

There was one bad pass to Lacy that if you look at replays he turned his ankle on his good leg!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Two drifters, off to see the world
There's such a lot of world to see
We're after the same rainbow's end, waiting, round the bend
My Huckleberry Friend, Moon River, and me

Woody, I'm picturing you and me, alone, drifting down the lazy Mississippi on a raft. Star filled night.

Somebody has to die.

Just kidding, friend.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, I'm picturing you and me, alone, drifting down the lazy Mississippi on a raft. Star filled night.

Somebody has to die.

Just kidding, friend.

There's another raft and man on that river:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEFdqhl9fo-ZPiKgIJVxsHkn3IDdwBxH9LbHh08KTm8RUT3fEm8g

This fella knows what he saw:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqCKXvbAf3G9kTlfPMnUeN3jJBwMm0z 1uW7uQyLjw7_9VHJxhhNw

[woodbuck27]

The bottom line for me:

Aaron Rodgers honesty.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/18/7786465/aaron-rodgers-nfc-championship-comments-packers-seahawks

Aaron Rodgers on NFC Championship loss: 'We gave it away'

By: Jeff Gray  @Jeff_GraySBN on Jan 18 2015, 8:16 PM

"You can't let them complete a pass for a touchdown on a fake field goal, you can't give up an onside kick and you can't not get any first downs in the first quarter and expect to win," Rodgers said. "And that's on top of being really poor in the red zone in the first half. Put it all together and that's how you lose games. We had a great opportunity. We were right on the cusp." Aaron Rodgers

[KYPack]

it's up to you

Mad's trying to do his job running this joint.

Where do you get off busting his balls for doing his gig?

Now you are crabbing at Mad, Patler, & PB.

I'll gladly be grouped with those gents anytime.

if you gaze at your posts in this thread tomorrow, you'll realize your efforts here were a botch.

What you hoped would be a big slam was just a bunch of whines.

[mraynrand]

Mad's trying to do his job running this joint.

Where do you get off busting his balls for doing his gig?

Now you are crabbing at Mad, Patler, & PB.

I'll gladly be grouped with those gents anytime.

if you gaze at your posts in this thread tomorrow, you'll realize your efforts here were a botch.

What you hoped would be a big slam was just a bunch of whines.

Was there a football comment in there? let me know.

[mraynrand]

Yes, here we go again. You start it with a snide question to me about what I "know", and when I respond directly to your condescending question you act as if you are the offended one. (Yawn.).

I missed this. No, that comment wasn't snide - it (was intended to) illustrate the point that it's unknowable whether Rodgers gave all he could. So we differ (I think?) on the point of whether Rodgers was going all out - or not: "Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess."

I'm OK with not knowing for sure.

[Smidgeon]

Some people still hate 12 because he's not 4, it appears.

What I don't understand is why Aaron Rodgers didn't prevent slavery in the United States. What a fucking dick move and an example of his me-first attitude.

And this is why I love Skin: lending absurdity to the opposition by extrapolation of a parallel to the extreme.

[Patler]

I missed this. No, that comment wasn't snide - it (was intended to) illustrate the point that it's unknowable whether Rodgers gave all he could. So we differ (I think?) on the point of whether Rodgers was going all out - or not: "Whether or not he could/should have is anyones guess."

I'm OK with not knowing for sure.

Well, I said in my very first post about this that I was stating the questions that one can ask about his performance in that final drive; but that I didn't know the answers to those questions. I have repeated it in several later posts.

Rodgers was physically compromised, not question about that. You might recall that I was one of the first to correlate his inaccuracy and lateness on passes to his slower and modified footwork. On the other hand, I do not believe that he was able to scramble 40 yards on one play to pick up 12 and go out of bounds, and then suddenly be incapable of going 5 yards or more that were right in front of him when he threw to Lacy. We should be able to discuss his decision on that play, even with his calf injury as a given. The injury is not an excuse for every decision made.

We should be able to discuss his decision on second down to throw to Rodgers, when he had an uncovered WR on the opposite side who had a sure few yards and perhaps more. The calf injury had no impact on that decision whatsoever.

We should be able to discuss his decision on third down to throw to Nelson well short of the first down when he had at least that much gain (and perhaps much more) available to him running the ball even at his compromised trot that he used three plays earlier.

I have no idea if any of those three decisions was a bad one or not, because I am not knowledgeable of the factors and routines he uses when making those decisions. But, it is easy to see that different decisions could have had profound impacts in the game. As I have said several times, that drive alone was the type of situation from which legends are made. Unfortunately, the result ended 30 yards short of the legend because of two failed and one inadequate play, each of which seemed to have a more positive alternative.

Therefore, I thought we might discuss the plays. Apparently, we can not, so I won't try any longer.

[mraynrand]

Apparently, we can not, so I won't try any longer.

why do you do this? *SIGH*


Well, I said in my very first post about this that I was stating the questions that one can ask about his performance in that final drive; but that I didn't know the answers to those questions. I have repeated it in several later posts.

Rodgers was physically compromised, not question about that. You might recall that I was one of the first to correlate his inaccuracy and lateness on passes to his slower and modified footwork. On the other hand, I do not believe that he was able to scramble 40 yards on one play to pick up 12 and go out of bounds, and then suddenly be incapable of going 5 yards or more that were right in front of him when he threw to Lacy. We should be able to discuss his decision on that play, even with his calf injury as a given. The injury is not an excuse for every decision made.

We should be able to discuss his decision on second down to throw to Rodgers, when he had an uncovered WR on the opposite side who had a sure few yards and perhaps more. The calf injury had no impact on that decision whatsoever.

We should be able to discuss his decision on third down to throw to Nelson well short of the first down when he had at least that much gain (and perhaps much more) available to him running the ball even at his compromised trot that he used three plays earlier.

I have no idea if any of those three decisions was a bad one or not, because I am not knowledgeable of the factors and routines he uses when making those decisions. But, it is easy to see that different decisions could have had profound impacts in the game. As I have said several times, that drive alone was the type of situation from which legends are made. Unfortunately, the result ended 30 yards short of the legend because of two failed and one inadequate play, each of which seemed to have a more positive alternative.

Therefore, I thought we might discuss the plays. Apparently, we can not, so I won't try any longer.

My answer is that viscerally, his injury affects all of these choices, in ways I'm not sure of - Maybe his gawddamn calf was on fire after his run and he knew he couldn't run again. Unless he tells us, we'll never know. So I kinda throw up my hands and say - yeah, maybe he left a lot on the field and maybe he coulda done something different, but maybe not. Had he been healthy, I probably discuss this with you til March or April, but given the unknowable, I'm done. Maybe Rodgers will talk about the injury in the future and we'll know more.

The thing that fascinates me much more is the psychology of the apocollapse and how the entire team kinda tanked it. But nobody (on the team) is talking about that so it's a dead issue too. Possibly on purpose. It will be interesting to see how the team responds.

[Maxie the Taxi]

mraynrand:

The thing that fascinates me much more is the psychology of the apocollapse and how the entire team kinda tanked it. But nobody (on the team) is talking about that so it's a dead issue too. Possibly on purpose. It will be interesting to see how the team responds.

I'm with you. I don't know if the psychology is all that mysterious, though. I wish I had a dime for every NFL game that ends contrary to the defeated team's expectations. Celebrating with a minute or two left is virtually always the kiss of death for the celebrating team.

TJ Lang said that, with 5 minutes left, NOBODY on the Packer sideline felt they could lose that game. That's unacceptable and it's not unusual or abnormal psychology. SOMEBODY on that sideline at that point in time HAS to have his head in the game, HAS to be in touch with the reality of the situation.

Hmmm...I wonder who that person should be? I also wonder what he was doing at the time that was more damn important than popping the air out of his team's false and stupid expectations?

Could it be that at the time Stubby's nose was glued to his play sheet and he was occupied calling plays (three Lacy dives into Seattle's stacked defense)? :whaa:

[mraynrand]

^^^ Really what you need are a few guys with the killer instinct, who don't want to let up until they have to drag 'em off the field. See for example, the Ravens, the Steelers. Not that these guys are more or less talented, etc., but that they want to finish other teams off. This mentality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9buo9Mtos

[woodbuck27]

It comes down to end game and how to properly close out.

Championship teams have that down pat.

The leadership of the Green Bay Packers is obviously lacking in this vital response. This wasn't just one of those things. This is a proof of why the Mike McCarthy era will be dominated by such mistakes. As soon as that sideline celebration got started someone had to stop it and get the entire team focused on finishing the game.

That's Basic Understanding of Pro Sports 101. What happened in Seattle was just ridiculous. Taken as a whole it falls on the head of Mike McCarthy. He must now react correctly. There has to be certain change.

I want to see a head coach in Green Bay that is strong in his understanding of solid team defense and ST's play. I want an OC that can call a better offensive game.

I'm realistic and know that as long as Ted Thompson is in place as the Packers GM that won't happen. My only realistic hope is that somehow Mike McCarthy quits. Observing McCarthy's ways, manners and attitude that doesn't seem like that will happen.

Rah rah rah !

Another NFCN Championship in 2015 and more playoff futility. It's easy to predict failure and certainly so when your team has a head coach with his head in the sand. Who has a neat and easy explanation coming from a deameanor that fails right here.

Mike McCarthy doesn't absolutely HATE to lose. A total team collapse was "a fun game" to Mike McCarthy.

The two are incongruent.

I'm absolutely positive that when Aaron Rodgers observed Mike McCarthy's response and 'a fun game' he must have:

a) been in total shock and simply threw his hands in the air.

b) Screamed and cursed.

c) broke something that was handy to get his hands on.

Mile McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers are just not close to one another in terms of intelligence. Their miles apart in terms of being honest and direct with the truth. Unless Mike McCarthy somehow arrives right there fast ...you can count on more of what you've been seeing since the green bay packers last won a Super Bowl.

NO...another NFCN championship isn't enough ! Not now or certainly not after blowing it in Seattle.

[pbmax]

Celebrating with a minute or two left is virtually always the kiss of death for the celebrating team.

I would wager this is the exact reverse of reality. Vast majority of team's celebrating late end up winning the game. The reason we remember is that its rare.

[pbmax]

Just curious, what evidence, beside Lang's confidence, do we have of an actual celebration?

Now winding down to clock killing mode (play calls, Peppers and Burnett) we have ample evidence of. But of outright celebration?

[mraynrand]

Just curious, what evidence, beside Lang's confidence, do we have of an actual celebration?

Now winding down to clock killing mode (play calls, Peppers and Burnett) we have ample evidence of. But of outright celebration?

None. There was a lot of celebrating and back-slapping after the Burnett INT, but that's SOP following a killer INT.

[mraynrand]

"Mike McCarthy doesn't absolutely HATE to lose. A total team collapse was "a fun game" to Mike McCarthy."

1) It was a damn fun game for 55 minutes - for Packer fans that is.
2) Stubby hates to lose. I guarantee it.

[pbmax]

"Mike McCarthy doesn't absolutely HATE to lose. A total team collapse was "a fun game" to Mike McCarthy."

1) It was a damn fun game for 55 minutes - for Packer fans that is.
2) Stubby hates to lose. I guarantee it.

I still love that a Packers team just beat the crap out of someone. I will never forget that about this game and it will not be the worst experience for me as a fan because of it. Most disappointing because it was there for the taking? Sure. But I loved the way the team played for 55 minutes. Heck, I even loved the last O drive for a FG.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I would wager this is the exact reverse of reality. Vast majority of team's celebrating late end up winning the game. The reason we remember is that its rare.

I'll take that bet. It's not "rare." All I have is my own experience to go on.