Does Anyone Want To Blame The Defense?

[pbmax]

The first TD wasn't their fault (though several players were out there for the fake).

Its 19-14 with 2:09 left. Having allowed on TD to Beast Mode is not ideal, but 7 points allowed by the D in a Championship game is a pretty good effort. It only took 7 plays from the Seattle 31 and 3:52 off the clock, so the D did bend quickly. But odd are still WAY in the Packers favor.

Onside kick gives them a short field and they go through the D like butter, 4 plays 44 seconds.

In OT, Seattle goes 87 yards (ST had them on their own 13 yard line) in 6 plays.

[pbmax]

Well at least we have this:

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 60m60 minutes ago
Doing my "Grading on a Curve" story on OLBs. @PFF had Nick Perry with second-best run-stop percentage among 3-4 OLBs

[mraynrand]

Well at least we have this:

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 60m60 minutes ago
Doing my "Grading on a Curve" story on OLBs. @PFF had Nick Perry with second-best run-stop percentage among 3-4 OLBs

I recall everyone screaming about how terrible Perry was last year - especially on the final drive against SF because he couldn't drop in coverage. Well, he was doing that because of all the injuries (he was injured too), and there was no one else to play that down. So this year, with everyone healthy more or less, he was used to his strength. Good to see.

[Freak Out]

The D collapsed at the end...no doubt. They and Dom did a great job up until that point though...but they and special teams had to carry the offense all the way and they couldn't. I don't want to think about it....still painful and only SEA getting pounded by NE will ease the pain. Was it Dom going soft with his play calling? It still hurts....

[Fosco33]

In span of 11 plays- D allowed 3 TDs.

[KYPack]

In span of 11 plays- D allowed 3 TDs.

Yeah, I didn't "know" that, but I felt it.

Capers did a helluva a job in the latter half of the season. He really moved the LB's around and crafted an NFL run D. Which we didn't have in the first 8 games. Then came the fatal end of the Hawk game.

Perry had one of the fugliest games at OLB I've ever seen his rookie year vs SF. He's come a 1000 miles since then. By the end of the season, offenses had to help the tackle on his side, he was mowing people down one on one. Big Nick is strong like truck, he just isn't a cover guy.

[Fosco33]

Yeah, I didn't "know" that, but I felt it.

Capers did a helluva a job in the latter half of the season. He really moved the LB's around and crafted an NFL run D. Which we didn't have in the first 8 games. Then came the fatal end of the Hawk game.

Perry had one of the fugliest games at OLB I've ever seen his rookie year vs SF. He's come a 1000 miles since then. By the end of the season, offenses had to help the tackle on his side, he was mowing people down one on one. Big Nick is strong like truck, he just isn't a cover guy.

Compare the final 11 plays to a set of 11 offensive plays by the Pack early. We had the ball twice inside 20 and got down to 1" line - and got 6 points.

[pbmax]

To be fair about the 11 for 3 number, one of those was on a short field and they were trying to drain the clock, which is going to yield yards.

The overtime TD drive was a great audible by the QB and his WR. Also a great pass.

I took Capers to task for moving Burnett deep, but after watching some replays, it was not every snap at the end. And Burnett deep did produce an INT that should have effectively ended the game. That 3rd and 19 completion though, that was some 4th and 26 mojo. Why are you deeper than that guy in Cover 3 on 3rd and 19? That's on the D as was Lynch's big run. Tackle him and another 20 seconds run off.

Have to expect that Wilson was going to be able to run at some point and he did seem to shake free after Clay was out. But in retrospect I wish they would have done was refuse to let him throw deep to a 1 on 1 WR, Tebow style. He was inaccurate all day except for those throws.

[bobblehead]

The first TD wasn't their fault (though several players were out there for the fake).

Its 19-14 with 2:09 left. Having allowed on TD to Beast Mode is not ideal, but 7 points allowed by the D in a Championship game is a pretty good effort. It only took 7 plays from the Seattle 31 and 3:52 off the clock, so the D did bend quickly. But odd are still WAY in the Packers favor.

Onside kick gives them a short field and they go through the D like butter, 4 plays 44 seconds.

In OT, Seattle goes 87 yards (ST had them on their own 13 yard line) in 6 plays.

The D did NOT collapse. They did exactly what MM wanted them to do. He starts counting possessions anytime he has a certain lead and he changes the way we are playing the game. This has an adverse effect as it puts players into passive mode (sort of like not calling enough running plays does to an OLine.)

Once they are in that mindset they don't come out of it again (thus the easy scores for Seattle to take the lead and in OT).

He does it every game which is why we have to sweat onside kicks after having 20+ point leads so often (see Atl).

I don't mean to say I want MM fired, he is a fantastic coach. He has a weakness and its his desire to milk a clock instead of go for the throat. Players excel when playing downhill. IF...he learns from this, it will be awesome, but if next season we have first half blowouts, and then must cover onside kicks, or make defensive stops to win at the end all season long I would say he didn't learn a damn thing.

Edit: He did learn that you can't play well outdoors after practicing indoors all week, so there is hope.

[woodbuck27]

" He did learn that you can't play well outdoors after practicing indoors all week, so there is hope." Fr. Post #9...bobblehead


Mike McCarthy's Coaching Resume:

1987–1988 - Fort Hays State (Graduate assistant)

1989–1991 - University of Pittsburgh (QB's Coach)

1992 - University of Pittsburgh ( WR's Coach)

1993–1994 - Kansas City Chiefs - (Offensive quality control assistant)

1995–1998 - Kansa City Chiefs (QB's Coach)

1999 - Green Bay Packers (QB's Coach)

2000–2004 - New Orleans Saints ( OC)

2005 - San Francisco 49ers - (OC)

2006–present Green Bay Packers (Head Coach)


There's nothing in Mike McCarthy's resume pre Green Bay related to playing DEFENSE.

How long does it take to teach one the things you should know by the time you reach University level by simply participating in sports?

How long does it take for common sense to sink in; especially when your coaching at a Pro level !?

How long does it take to realize that winning big takes real toughness and desire to 'just win'? That no part of that is spelled 'FUN'?

How long does it take to know that after every season growth does come from honest and tough evaluation and resultant change? There's little gain in any evaluation process without making actual changes.

Mike McCarthy's growth curve doesn't seem steep enough for me. This man moves very very slow. Obviously and as a result he grows slowly.

From a fans perspective:

The loser as a result will be Green Bay Packer fans hoping for more than NFCN Championships.

[mraynrand]

There's nothing in Mike McCarthy's resume pre Green Bay related to playing DEFENSE.

Offenses scheme against defenses, not the air. They kinda understand defenses. It's part of the job.


How long does it take to realize that winning big takes real toughness and desire to 'just win'? That no part of that is spelled 'FUN'?

Can't some of it be fun?

[red]

They played amazing for the first 56 minutes of the game, then they absolutely shit the bed and did everything wrong that they could

It sums up our defense under capers perfectly imo

[wist43]

The players?? Some blame - Burnett's idiotic slide... dumb on top of stupid. No excuse for that.

But the collapse is, of course, on dunderdummy. His rush no one, and cover no one on 3rd and 21 was the beginning of the end. Until that point, he was Dr. Jekyl... of course, Mr. Hyde is always lurking just under the surface.

When will you guys learn?? lol... the guy can't wait to go stupid, he can't wait to go soft, he can't wait to rush 3 and cover no one... it's who he is, and it's who he has always been.

Dunderdummy cannot be trusted - NEVER, EVER!!!

[wist43]

Offenses scheme against defenses, not the air. They kinda understand defenses. It's part of the job.



Can't some of it be fun?

The fun can start once your opponent realizes they are beaten, their body language changes, and they submit - not with 4:00 minutes left in a game that is within 2 scores.

MM and Capers, by nature, are not aggressive, finish their opponent off coaches. Every once in a while MM might show some guts, but Capers is a skirt-wearing pussy - always has been, always will be.

[woodbuck27]

The players?? Some blame - Burnett's idiotic slide... dumb on top of stupid. No excuse for that.

But the collapse is, of course, on dunderdummy. His rush no one, and cover no one on 3rd and 21 was the beginning of the end. Until that point, he was Dr. Jekyl... of course, Mr. Hyde is always lurking just under the surface.

When will you guys learn?? lol... the guy can't wait to go stupid, he can't wait to go soft, he can't wait to rush 3 and cover no one... it's who he is, and it's who he has always been.

Dunderdummy cannot be trusted - NEVER, EVER!!!

wist43:

After Seattle no one here will be able to disagree legitimately with your contentions against Dom Capers. You proved every nay sayer wrong.

Sadly it takes Green Bay Packers losing to prove your 'the WINNER'.

[woodbuck27]

The fun can start once your opponent realizes they are beaten, their body language changes, and they submit - not with 4:00 minutes left in a game that is within 2 scores.

MM and Capers, by nature, are not aggressive, finish their opponent off coaches. Every once in a while MM might show some guts, but Capers is a skirt-wearing pussy - always has been, always will be.

"...not with 4:00 minutes left in a game that is within 2 scores. ..." wist43

actually the Morgan Burnett "pick - step - step >>> slide" and ensueing onfield and sideline celebration was with 5:04 remaining.

I was watching that and saying to myself. What are they doing !? There was way too much time on the clock.

[pbmax]

The players?? Some blame - Burnett's idiotic slide... dumb on top of stupid. No excuse for that.

But the collapse is, of course, on dunderdummy. His rush no one, and cover no one on 3rd and 21 was the beginning of the end. Until that point, he was Dr. Jekyl... of course, Mr. Hyde is always lurking just under the surface.

When will you guys learn?? lol... the guy can't wait to go stupid, he can't wait to go soft, he can't wait to rush 3 and cover no one... it's who he is, and it's who he has always been.

Dunderdummy cannot be trusted - NEVER, EVER!!!

Cover 0 blitz on the winning TD there sport.

It wasn't all Cover 2. Matthews out put Hawk onto field and that left the rush to the D lineman.

I agree that M3 has some influence on how D is played. But there weren't completely in a shell.

[gbgary]

they were on the field most of the second half, were without clay for the meltdown, and had the reigns pulled back on them late, so...no. i blame mehcarthy, sp teams/bostick, and peppers/burnett.

[pbmax]

wist43:

After Seattle no one here will be able to disagree legitimately with your contentions against Dom Capers. You proved every nay sayer wrong.

Sadly it takes Green Bay Packers losing to prove your 'the WINNER'.

He predicted the Packers wouldn't be able to keep it close.


My original prediction was Sea 38 GB16

I think I'm going to amend that down a bit, hoping we keep it closer...

Sea 27
GB 16

[mraynrand]

The fun can start once your opponent realizes they are beaten, their body language changes, and they submit - not with 4:00 minutes left in a game that is within 2 scores.

I enjoyed 55 minutes of the game, and then the tying drive. I guess I'm a cheap date.

[texaspackerbacker]

Capers schemed his way to excellence for most of the game, despite questionable personnel, but late in the game, it seems that Seattle made the correct adjustments. I'd really like to see the Capers D in action with better players.

[woodbuck27]

He predicted the Packers wouldn't be able to keep it close.

pbmax wist43 prediction was out overall by an aggregate seven (7) points....one score.

For the Green Bay Packers he predicted they would score 16 points and the Packers scored six (6) more or 22 points.

For the Seattle Seahawks he predicted they would score 27 Points and they scored 28 points.

Compared to most of the members predicted scores here wist43 was more accurate.

[woodbuck27]

Cover 0 blitz on the winning TD there sport.

It wasn't all Cover 2. Matthews out put Hawk onto field and that left the rush to the D lineman.

I agree that M3 has some influence on how D is played. But there weren't completely in a shell.

Where was the safety help for Tramon Williams on the winning TD in OT?

That was a glaring error.

Had Dom Capers simply surrendered at that point?

[pbmax]

pbmax wist43 prediction was out overall by an aggregate seven (7) points....one score.

For the Green Bay Packers he predicted they would score 16 points and the Packers scored six (6) more or 22 points.

For the Seattle Seahawks he predicted they would score 27 Points and they scored 28 points.

Compared to most of the members predicted scores here wist43 was more accurate.

His first prediction was for the Seahawks to score 38 points. He also commented there was no way the Packers could stop them with Capers.

But once again, the Defense outplayed the Offense.

So once again the Capers bashing was misplaced. His argument, in fact, changed after the game; that you could trust neither coach.

[pbmax]

Where was the safety help for Tramon Williams on the winning TD in OT?

That was a glaring error.

Had Dom Capers simply surrendered at that point?

Cover 0 blitz was a big part of his blitz package when the Packers D improved over the second half of the year. He relied on perhaps his best position group on D to hold coverage while he doubled someone inside (Witten for instance) and sent more than 4 after the QB. It also gives you 9 closer to the box.

So no it wasn't surrender. But it was a very good audible by the QB.

[mraynrand]

Cover 0 blitz was a big part of his blitz package when the Packers D improved over the second half of the year. He relied on perhaps his best position group on D to hold coverage while he doubled someone inside (Witten for instance) and sent more than 4 after the QB. It also gives you 9 closer to the box.

So no it wasn't surrender. But it was a very good audible by the QB.

and a perfect throw in the wind and rain

[woodbuck27]

Cover 0 blitz was a big part of his blitz package when the Packers D improved over the second half of the year. He relied on perhaps his best position group on D to hold coverage while he doubled someone inside (Witten for instance) and sent more than 4 after the QB. It also gives you 9 closer to the box.

So no it wasn't surrender. But it was a very good audible by the QB.

I get it given the down and yardage for Seattle on the play preceding the TD play:

3-7-SEA 30 (12:36) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass deep right to 89-D.Baldwin to GB 35 for 35 yards (29-C.Hayward).

The next and final play was a 1st and 10:

To send that many to the line was like Texas Hold Em and a high risk 'All In' and not necessary. It was a bad defensive call and Dom Capers got burnt bad for it.

How bad was that?

It was bye bye Super Bowl. The entire season... the air let out of that PRONTO !

[pbmax]

Maybe a bad call (hindsight is 20/20) but definitely not surrendering.

[mraynrand]

I get it given the down and yardage for Seattle on the play preceding the TD play:

3-7-SEA 30 (12:36) (Shotgun) 3-R.Wilson pass deep right to 89-D.Baldwin to GB 35 for 35 yards (29-C.Hayward).

The next and final play was a 1st and 10:

To send that many to the line was like Texas Hold Em and a high risk 'All In' and not necessary. It was a bad defensive call and Dom Capers got burnt bad for it.

How bad was that?

It was bye bye Super Bowl. The entire season... the air let out of that PRONTO !

It was a reasonable defensive call that worked out horribly. If you think about the way the game had gone, up to that point Wilson had completed very little and most of Seattle's yards were coming on the ground. With the wind and rain, an audible to a deep throw, even with single coverage (that had already led to 4 INTs) was a huge risk.

[woodbuck27]

" If you think about the way the game had gone, up to that point Wilson had completed very little and most of Seattle's yards were coming on the ground. " mraynrand

From the time that Clay Matthews was out of the game or with 7:01 remaining in the 4th Qtr. and up to his final pass for the game winning TD in Overtime:

Russell Wilson was 5 for 7 passing for 100 Yards. He was effective as a passer in the last half of the 4th Qtr,. and into OT. As a passing threat he had to be considered dangerous given this statistic.

Given Russell Wilson's style of play he was 'in fact' a solid threat to pass on that game ending 1st down.

[mraynrand]

" If you think about the way the game had gone, up to that point Wilson had completed very little and most of Seattle's yards were coming on the ground. " mraynrand

From the time that Clay Matthews was out of the game or with 7:01 remaining in the 4th Qtr. and up to his final pass for the game winning TD in Overtime:

Russell Wilson was 5 for 7 passing for 100 Yards. He was effective as a passer in the last half of the 4th Qtr,. and into OT. As a passing threat he had to be considered dangerous given this statistic.

Given Russell Wilson's style of play he was 'in fact' a solid threat to pass on that game ending 1st down.

The 5-7/100 yards is deceptive - two plays were for 70, including the previous play and the pick play to Lynch. The other three were all short, and Wilson had missed a deep throw. Also, even just playing catch-up, the play selection was 3-3 on the first drive and 3-1 (the one pass incomplete) on the second drive. The Packers were giving up a lot of yards on the ground on those two drives. The next time Wilson gets the ball is in OT, and there you suspect a more conventional attack., and it makes sense to stop the run. So the play selection tendencies were highly slanted to run, the deep throws were off target, the Packers were doing a good job in 0 coverage; it made sense to continue defending the run on a first and 10. They got burned but it wasn't a bad strategy, based on the way the game was going.

[pbmax]

He is dangerous, that is why you might blitz him.

The Packers had had success with pressure for most of the game.

[woodbuck27]

" The 5-7/100 yards is deceptive - two plays were for 70, including the previous play and the pick play to Lynch." mraynrand

NO !

The plays were in order for:

20;26;8;10 and 36 yards for a total of 100 yards.

When Russell Wilson burns the Packers defense for the Final passing TD (again ) he was 5/7 for 100 yards from the time that Clay Matthews exited the game or at 7:01 remaining in the 4th Qtr.

[ThunderDan]

" The 5-7/100 yards is deceptive - two plays were for 70, including the previous play and the pick play to Lynch." mraynrand

NO !

The plays were in order for:

20;26;8;10 and 36 yards for a total of 100 yards.

When Russell Wilson burns the Packers defense for the Final passing TD (again ) he was 5/7 for 100 yards from the time that Clay Matthews exited the game or at 7:01 remaining in the 4th Qtr.

Thanks for the correction.

So instead of Rand's 2/2 for 70 and 3/5 for 30.....
We have woody's 2/2 for 62 and 3/5 for 38.....

[mraynrand]

He is dangerous, that is why you might blitz him.

The Packers had had success with pressure for most of the game.

agree, but not on first and ten in overtime, right? With the success the birds were having running the ball, the Packers played the odds.

[Maxie the Taxi]

agree, but not on first and ten in overtime, right? With the success the birds were having running the ball, the Packers played the odds.

Odds schmodds. I'd blitz every down all game long. :-)

[mraynrand]

Odds schmodds. I'd blitz every down all game long. :-)

You can expect a call from Mike Sherman

http://prod.static.redskins.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/WAS/centerpieces/landing-page-centerpieces/coach-front-office-staff-photos/A70G2961SlowikInside.jpg

[Maxie the Taxi]

You can expect a call from Mike Sherman



Or Bruce Arians.:-)

[pbmax]

agree, but not on first and ten in overtime, right? With the success the birds were having running the ball, the Packers played the odds.

Probably dependent on personnel and likely play call. Whatever Bevell dialed up, Capers had anticipated because Wilson had to change the play.

[bobblehead]

The players?? Some blame - Burnett's idiotic slide... dumb on top of stupid. No excuse for that.

But the collapse is, of course, on dunderdummy. His rush no one, and cover no one on 3rd and 21 was the beginning of the end. Until that point, he was Dr. Jekyl... of course, Mr. Hyde is always lurking just under the surface.

When will you guys learn?? lol... the guy can't wait to go stupid, he can't wait to go soft, he can't wait to rush 3 and cover no one... it's who he is, and it's who he has always been.

Dunderdummy cannot be trusted - NEVER, EVER!!!

And I'm telling you that based on history, I conclude that MM has him going into that shell on 3rd and 21. That is MM theory. Capers historically has not coached that way.

[bobblehead]

Cover 0 blitz on the winning TD there sport.

It wasn't all Cover 2. Matthews out put Hawk onto field and that left the rush to the D lineman.

I agree that M3 has some influence on how D is played. But there weren't completely in a shell.

Problem is that the players mindset/downhill play had changed by that point. You can't get into that shell, then come out when you want to. Human emotion just doesn't work that way. In allowing that situation to become real, MM forced his players into a reactionary/softer mindset. It has an avalanche effect on players who are watching a lead evaporate and hoping the clock runs out. Once they lose that edge, you pretty much gotta wait til kickoff next game to get it back.

[pbmax]

There should be no reason you can't play zone on 3rd and freaking forever and win the play. Every other defense does it and forces a throw underneath and tackles.

I would have preferred more pressure though.