The "R" word

[red]

sounds like tramon has turned down our offer and is hitting the road

no one has a clue whats going on with house, i'm hoping we aren't offering him more then we just tried to give tramon

long time defensive leader hawk is gone for now

long time defensive pile of shit brad jones is gone

another fat POS in raji may or may not come back

sounds like cobb is gone

juhn could be gone

bulaga could be gone (we have heard nothing from either side about him, i would hope we lock him up)

are we going through a little bit of a rebuilding period here? free agency hasn't started yet, but we're never a huge player in that. it sure seems like we aren't just getting ready to add the last couple of pieces to win a super bowl, and seems more like we're dumping more big contract vets and getting ready to replace with cheaper younger guys

we did this during the favre years too. it was never a full blown rebuilding job, cause we always had favre (except for the 4-12 year), but we did have mini-rebuilds

it seems to me like we might be closer to the begining of a cycle, then closer to the goal

we're always doing a little bit of rebuilding every year with TT and his whole "almost draft entirely" approach, but this year seems a bit bigger

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

sounds like tramon has turned down our offer and is hitting the road

no one has a clue whats going on with house, i'm hoping we aren't offering him more then we just tried to give tramon

long time defensive leader hawk is gone for now

long time defensive pile of shit brad jones is gone

another fat POS in raji may or may not come back

sounds like cobb is gone

juhn could be gone

bulaga could be gone (we have heard nothing from either side about him, i would hope we lock him up)

are we going through a little bit of a rebuilding period here? free agency hasn't started yet, but we're never a huge player in that. it sure seems like we aren't just getting ready to add the last couple of pieces to win a super bowl, and seems more like we're dumping more big contract vets and getting ready to replace with cheaper younger guys

we did this during the favre years too. it was never a full blown rebuilding job, cause we always had favre (except for the 4-12 year), but we did have mini-rebuilds

it seems to me like we might be closer to the begining of a cycle, then closer to the goal

we're always doing a little bit of rebuilding every year with TT and his whole "almost draft entirely" approach, but this year seems a bit bigger

R-E-L-A-X

[MadScientist]

Losing both Tramon and House will hurt, hopefully one can be kept. To keep house they will have to offer starter money, probably more than the offer to Tramon.

Bulaga - no news is good news in that we haven't heard him linked to other teams. He will likely get full market RT money (maybe some hedge against injury with per game bonuses or something).

Losing Cobb is looking likely, and will hurt in a big way. I hope they can find a way to keep him.

Hardly rebuilding, but losing Cobb may well be enough to keep them out of the SB next year, barring major jumps from the 2nd year guys.


As for the rest, losing pieces of shit is not called rebuilding, it's called improving.

[Smidgeon]

Might be the end of rebuilding and not the beginning (although there's never really an end when you're churning over a roster). OLBs and S last year, WRs last year, ILBs and CBs this year, etc.

[red]

Might be the end of rebuilding and not the beginning (although there's never really an end when you're churning over a roster). OLBs and S last year, WRs last year, ILBs and CBs this year, etc.

yeah, it could be that this year is just a little bit more of a "churn" then a normal year

i agree losing shit isn't bad, but cobb bulaga, kuhn, tramon, house and hawk aren't all shit. they're average at worse

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I just think it is to early to get excited about where we areas a team. If the season started in a couple weeks, I would agree we are fucked, but it is way early in the overall process and I have been encouraged by the moves made so far.

[KYPack]

yeah, it could be that this year is just a little bit more of a "churn" then a normal year

i agree losing shit isn't bad, but cobb bulaga, kuhn, tramon, house and hawk aren't all shit. they're average at worse

I pretty much figured btw Bulaga and Cobb, we'd keep one.

Then, I noticed that Bulaga is the best RT out there right now.

The market will give him big bucks.

Cobb? I really hoped we'd keep him. There was a huge list of FA WR's, but Cobb keeps looking like he's one of the top guys out there.

The market will also produce big bucks for Randal. I wasn't that worried about losing Jones, Driver, etc, but this looks like a serious crimp in our roster.

The prospect of losing a #1 pick AND a 2 has to really give TT heartburn.

[vince]

R-E-L-O-A-D

[Carolina_Packer]

It's a game of replacement, as they say. Hopefully replacement with better players. If they can't keep Cobb, I don't think they will be able to immediately replace his production. If you lose a player like Cobb because you are trying to stay cap disciplined, then I guess that makes sense. It also means that the team has done a good job of drafting and developing so much talent at WR that they cannot "afford" to pay them all what they are worth in a given free agent year.

I am a bit surprised that in a year when they say the draft for WR's is deep that teams are still willing to pay (possibly overpay) for an established WR vs. drafting a player that you can get production from pretty much right away, and who gives you cost certainty for 4, possibly 5 years. I was hoping the deep receiver class might help keep the FA money down for WR's and that the Packers could keep Cobb that much easier. We'll see what happens. There was trepidation from some when Jennings left. Losing Cobb would hurt more than that, but I think they will find someone else to give them production. They have to.

[Bretsky]

BUMMED ABOUT TRAMON

I'd happy give him a two year deal for 6MIL a year and then draft a guy to groom

Not sure on House but I think he's getting paid by another team

[pbmax]

I understand not paying Tramon, but I would be surprised they would choose to lose House. He would need a monster deal to escape I believe. Neither Hayward or Hyde appear ready outside. Goodson would have to make a world record leap to be ready.

[Patler]

I understand not paying Tramon, but I would be surprised they would choose to lose House. He would need a monster deal to escape I believe. Neither Hayward or Hyde appear ready outside. Goodson would have to make a world record leap to be ready.

Agreed. I have said several times that I will be surprised if they lose both. I can see it happen only if both sign outrageous contracts.

However, it could turn out like TT's first year, when he had to deal with the free agencies of both Rivera and Wahle. They couldn't afford both, but didn't want to lose both either. They focused on Rivera, who they thought would be the more affordable player. Then Dallas offered a big signing bonus on a larger, longer contract than anyone expected he would be offered, and just like that, both were gone.

I am concerned that this will be the same. The younger House, like Wahle, will get offers that the Packers don't want to compete with, and someone will offer a guarantee to Williams, like the Cowboys did with Rivera, above what the Packers are comfortable with.

[Bossman641]

I never thought I'd see the day where Red would lament the loss of Hawk, Jones, and Kuhn. Who are you and what have you done with Red? If he starts pining for Bush's return we know his account has been hacked.

[bobblehead]

sounds like tramon has turned down our offer and is hitting the road

no one has a clue whats going on with house, i'm hoping we aren't offering him more then we just tried to give tramon

long time defensive leader hawk is gone for now

long time defensive pile of shit brad jones is gone

another fat POS in raji may or may not come back

sounds like cobb is gone

juhn could be gone

bulaga could be gone (we have heard nothing from either side about him, i would hope we lock him up)

are we going through a little bit of a rebuilding period here? free agency hasn't started yet, but we're never a huge player in that. it sure seems like we aren't just getting ready to add the last couple of pieces to win a super bowl, and seems more like we're dumping more big contract vets and getting ready to replace with cheaper younger guys

we did this during the favre years too. it was never a full blown rebuilding job, cause we always had favre (except for the 4-12 year), but we did have mini-rebuilds

it seems to me like we might be closer to the begining of a cycle, then closer to the goal

we're always doing a little bit of rebuilding every year with TT and his whole "almost draft entirely" approach, but this year seems a bit bigger

Good points, but I would argue that about everyone of those players is losing a step. We need to re-sign Bulaga and Cobb, but I don't see any of those other guys as a priority. Hawk and Jones were liabilities on the field. Raji never played a snap. Kuhns are a dime a dozen. Heady smart players who work hard, but aren't that talented is almost a cliche. I would say it would help to re-sign EITHER Tramon or House, but both aren't a big priority. So, in reality, we get back 3 guys and I think we only get better with youth from there.

[bobblehead]

yeah, it could be that this year is just a little bit more of a "churn" then a normal year

i agree losing shit isn't bad, but cobb bulaga, kuhn, tramon, house and hawk aren't all shit. they're average at worse

Again...Hawk isn't shit, but shields is. EVERY time Hawk was on the field we gushed yards. He fucking blows absolute chunks and him being on the field is almost directly attributable to everything positive seattle did to beat us. Ditching Hawk and Jones is a major improvement....and Jones was better than Hawk this year.

[bobblehead]

I understand not paying Tramon, but I would be surprised they would choose to lose House. He would need a monster deal to escape I believe. Neither Hayward or Hyde appear ready outside. Goodson would have to make a world record leap to be ready.

House scares me as a Brad Jones trajectory. Hurt alot, flashes at times, then plays about 3/4 of a good season heading into FA. I'm not overjoyed to lock him up for too much money.

[Patler]

Good points, but I would argue that about everyone of those players is losing a step. We need to re-sign Bulaga and Cobb, but I don't see any of those other guys as a priority. Hawk and Jones were liabilities on the field. Raji never played a snap. Kuhns are a dime a dozen. Heady smart players who work hard, but aren't that talented is almost a cliche. I would say it would help to re-sign EITHER Tramon or House, but both aren't a big priority. So, in reality, we get back 3 guys and I think we only get better with youth from there.

Mostly agree with that. Rebuilding is when because of age or money a team finds it necessary to replace major contributors, Replacing non-contributors like Raji, guys who actually hindered you on the filed like Jones & Hawk, or guys who made small contributions like Kuhn and House is not rebuilding. House is important only if Williams does not return.

Cobb, Bulaga and one of Williams or House are important to the team. Even if all four are gone, only three poaitions are being "rebuilt", the others merely replaced.

[pbmax]

I agree on the concern about House. He's not guaranteed. Which is why I suspect there is a price Ted won't go to. But I also have a hard time seeing them standing pat here and lose both Tramon and Davon.

[esoxx]

Again...Hawk isn't shit, but shields is. EVERY time Hawk was on the field we gushed yards. He fucking blows absolute chunks and him being on the field is almost directly attributable to everything positive seattle did to beat us. Ditching Hawk and Jones is a major improvement....and Jones was better than Hawk this year.

Not to mention the coup de grace on the fake FG where Mr. Smart Assignment Sure blew his assignment and ran by the guy going out for the pass leaving him wide open in the end zone. His last chance at redemption and he shit his pants big time. No thanks to any more Hawk.

If they can't do better at ILB on the roster than Hawk this offseason then they're not trying.

[red]

Not to mention the coup de grace on the fake FG where Mr. Smart Assignment Sure blew his assignment and ran by the guy going out for the pass leaving him wide open in the end zone. His last chance at redemption and he shit his pants big time. No thanks to any more Hawk.

If they can't do better at ILB on the roster than Hawk this offseason then they're not trying.

so, on the play, hawk either goes after the punter to stop him from running for the first, or he covers the guy running to the endzone and lets ryan run for the first and maybe a TD

remember ryan as fast as hell, he might have been the fastest guy on the field at the time

hawk was really in a no win situation, due to jones being on the field, signalling the seahawks that he would crash hard and leave the left side of the field with just hawk covering, and slocum, zook and the rest of the clowns on the sideline having no clue that a fake was coming even though most of us were screaming to watch out for it at home.

if hawk covers the TE and ryan runs for a first or TD we're bitching about hawk not stopping the run. he was in a no win situation on that play and lost

and yes ball hawk, hawk was shit for most of last season, especially at the end of the year, it MIGHT have had something to do with the bum ankle he had fixed, or maybe not. you can fault him for a lot that went wrong this year, but i have a hard time shitting on him for the fake field goal

[mraynrand]

Red, repent

[mraynrand]

Not to mention the coup de grace on the fake FG where Mr. Smart Assignment Sure blew his assignment and ran by the guy going out for the pass leaving him wide open in the end zone. His last chance at redemption and he shit his pants big time. No thanks to any more Hawk.

If they can't do better at ILB on the roster than Hawk this offseason then they're not trying.

burn in hell

[mraynrand]

How about Reconstruction - as in "Esoxx's Fables of the Reconstruction" - BIH

[Guiness]

sounds like tramon has turned down our offer and is hitting the road

There are no games between now and the start of FA, I don't know why he wouldn't test the waters - unless he's afraid the Pack will pull their offer off the table.

[esoxx]

so, on the play, hawk either goes after the punter to stop him from running for the first, or he covers the guy running to the endzone and lets ryan run for the first and maybe a TD

remember ryan as fast as hell, he might have been the fastest guy on the field at the time

hawk was really in a no win situation, due to jones being on the field, signalling the seahawks that he would crash hard and leave the left side of the field with just hawk covering, and slocum, zook and the rest of the clowns on the sideline having no clue that a fake was coming even though most of us were screaming to watch out for it at home.

if hawk covers the TE and ryan runs for a first or TD we're bitching about hawk not stopping the run. he was in a no win situation on that play and lost



House had the angle on Ryan and likely stops him before the first; worse case scenario he gets the first. No way in hell does he run in a TD with a CB having an angle on him.

So yeah, the guy who's main value to the team the last several years was his ability to "get everyone lined up right" made a bonehead decision in the heat of the moment. It happens.

But I'm not going to look the other way about what a crap player he was last year, whether he fucked up on that play or not. Time to move on from that shit show.

[esoxx]

burn in hell

You forgot the exclamation point.

[red]

House had the angle on Ryan and likely stops him before the first; worse case scenario he gets the first. No way in hell does he run in a TD with a CB having an angle on him.

So yeah, the guy who's main value to the team the last several years was his ability to "get everyone lined up right" made a bonehead decision in the heat of the moment. It happens.

But I'm not going to look the other way about what a crap player he was last year, whether he fucked up on that play or not. Time to move on from that shit show.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQUZWhgbs4M

the play is at 35 seconds

in no way does house "have the angle".

ryan takes off and house is BEHIND him. ryan has 4.4 speed, house has 4.44 speed. ryan has a good 2 or 3 yards on him when he slows up to throw the ball. if hawk is not there ryan more then likely wins the foot race with house to the endzone

a fact that hawk would know from when they were teammates

there is another angle in that video at 1:11 showing just how beat house was when ryan pulled up to throw

[Joemailman]

the play is at 35 seconds

in no way does house "have the angle".

ryan takes off and house is BEHIND him. ryan has 4.4 speed, house has 4.44 speed. ryan has a good 2 or 3 yards on him when he slows up to throw the ball. if hawk is not there ryan more then likely wins the foot race with house to the endzone

a fact that hawk would know from when they were teammates

there is another angle in that video at 1:11 showing just how beat house was when ryan pulled up to throw

House did have the angle to prevent Ryan from running for the TD. He could not have prevented the 1st down, but he likely could have prevented the TD. Hawk just got caught in no-man's land. But really who cares? I blame Slocum.

[red]

House did have the angle to prevent Ryan from running for the TD. He could not have prevented the 1st down, but he likely could have prevented the TD. Hawk just got caught in no-man's land. But really who cares? I blame Slocum.

well i guess i don't understand angles then. it sure looks like they are both at the 25ish when ryan pulls up to throw

http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/b70162cb069248c52fcd10fd4287f75802aac656.gif

i was taught that side "c" would always be less then side "a"

[pbmax]

Oh, I forgot to post this. Must have been distracted by llamas or a dress.

The idea of a 12-4 team rebuilding is kinda silly. Especially this 12-4 team.