Trades? In the NFL? [Archive]

Guiness

03-06-2015, 02:53 PM

Trades? In the NFL? The insanity of it!

A couple of big names in Brandon Marshall and LeSean McCoy moving this offseason. Smaller name in Cassel, but that could still likely a move for a starting QB. Not something you often see in the NFL. Teams are reluctant to part with draft picks, so usually players who have worn out their welcome, even if they are still a certainty to play in the NFL, end up being released instead of traded. Also, the structure of the salary cap means that trading a player with years left on his contract results in money accelerated against your cap.

So what's the difference this year? Why the change? Is this just a new owner in Buffalo going crazy, is was there subtle change that makes this approach viable?

Cheesehead Craig

03-06-2015, 03:00 PM

Too often new coaches just "make do" with what they have and aren't aggressive enough with their player acquisition to get players that will help them win ASAP or . They keep coming in thinking they have 4-5 years but too often the are out by year 3 due to not winning enough. Impressed with Buffalo's moves so far. They got a very good RB with McCoy and a solid QB in Cassel. Offense is looking in much better shape so now they can draft BPA instead of getting locked into a certain position.

red

03-06-2015, 03:23 PM

yeah, its a "win now" league. these new guys have to win now or they're gone next year

there is no draft and develop option for a lot of teams out there. you do draft and develop with a new coach and he gets fired in two years, new guy comes in and wants his own kind of players

so, bring in players that you know can do the job

Guiness

03-07-2015, 01:39 PM

How much do the Eagles get accelerated against their cap? McCoy had $3.4M of prorated signing bonus left, 1.7 in 2015, 1.7 in 2016. I assume that all gets accelerated against the Eagles 2015 cap.

smuggler

03-07-2015, 01:41 PM

Yes, but now his $6million or so salary is off the books, so it's still a net gain in 2015 cap space.

pbmax

03-07-2015, 03:08 PM

Guiness

03-09-2015, 08:52 PM

So the Bears are not even trying to hide their desire to move Cutler anymore. Problem is, of course, he's due $31.5M in salary over the next 2 years.

Absent a trade (no way anyone takes on that!) if the Bears have really decided to cut bait, he might be released this week, because on Thursday, $10M of his 2016 salary guarantees!

red

03-09-2015, 10:19 PM

i wonder if we will ever get to a point where the nfl does some trades like we see in the nba

like a player and cash and a draft pick to a team with lots of cap room for some guys who's contract would be expiring in a year

like the raiders, they need to eat up a ton of cap and there isn't a ton left out there worth big contracts

something like the bears sending cutler and like 6 million cash and maybe a draft pick to the raiders for some rookies

pbmax

03-09-2015, 11:16 PM

I like the sound of Jay Cutler's never expiring contract.

Cheesehead Craig

03-10-2015, 07:57 AM

I like the sound of Jay Cutler's never expiring contract.

The Cutler contract is up there with biggest bonehead moves by a division opponent with the Walker trade by the Vikes and the Matt Millen hire by the Lions.

Pugger

03-10-2015, 10:01 AM

I hope the bares keep Cutler for years!

digitaldean

03-10-2015, 06:57 PM

Either Chip Kelly will be the evil genius in Philly or he will be run out of town. Foles and a 2nd rounder for BRADFORD??? Got rid of Jackson, Maclin, McCoy and now Foles. He's definitely in charge, but if anything even close to a slow start in Philly and the rabid Philly fanbase will turn on him in a heartbeat.

mraynrand

03-10-2015, 07:02 PM

I like the sound of Jay Cutler's never expiring contract.

http://www.ruralking.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/o/wonka-s-everlasting-gobstoppers-165-p_ekm_714x300_ekm_.jpg

Rastak

03-10-2015, 08:28 PM

http://www.ruralking.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/o/wonka-s-everlasting-gobstoppers-165-p_ekm_714x300_ekm_.jpg

Holy shit, I vaugely remember those things on the store shelf along with Wonka bars.

Rastak

03-10-2015, 08:28 PM

Fritz

03-11-2015, 09:40 AM

I think he's fucking nuts myself.

Lions trade a fourth and a fifth round pick for Ngata. Here's a quote from the Detroit News on the deal:

"the Lions' acquisition of the five-time Pro Bowl nose tackle from the Ravens for a pair of mid-round picks was a commendable response. GM Martin Mayhew knows how tricky free agency can be, so he made the trade moments before Baltimore reportedly was about to release Ngata for salary-cap reasons."

...And this is the difference between the Lions' franchise and the Packers'.

Had the Ravens released Ngata, apparently the Lions' GM thought he'd sign for more than 8.5 million for this year.

While I like Ngata, that seems to me unrealistic, completely. He's 31, was suspended four games last year, and has an injury history that, at his age, is unlikely to lessen.

Do any of you think he'd really have gotten the same money or more in a free agent market?

denverYooper

03-11-2015, 10:12 AM

Mayhew just committed one of the classic blunders! The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia," but only slightly less well-known is this: never get involved in a trade with the Baltimore Ravens when a declining player is on the table!

pbmax

03-11-2015, 10:21 AM

Its not as if draft picks are more important than cash. C'mon!

Cheesehead Craig

03-11-2015, 10:55 AM

Guiness

03-11-2015, 11:03 AM

I think he's fucking nuts myself.

He certainly seems to be leaning that way. I can't tell what the hell's going on there.

Guiness

03-11-2015, 11:47 AM

Lions trade a fourth and a fifth round pick for Ngata. Here's a quote from the Detroit News on the deal:

"the Lions' acquisition of the five-time Pro Bowl nose tackle from the Ravens for a pair of mid-round picks was a commendable response. GM Martin Mayhew knows how tricky free agency can be, so he made the trade moments before Baltimore reportedly was about to release Ngata for salary-cap reasons."

...And this is the difference between the Lions' franchise and the Packers'.

Had the Ravens released Ngata, apparently the Lions' GM thought he'd sign for more than 8.5 million for this year.

While I like Ngata, that seems to me unrealistic, completely. He's 31, was suspended four games last year, and has an injury history that, at his age, is unlikely to lessen.

Do any of you think he'd really have gotten the same money or more in a free agent market?

Or maybe the issue is they are losing their two DTs, needed another one, and were afraid that if Ngata hit FA he wouldn't answer the phone when they called.

Bossman641

03-11-2015, 11:51 AM

Lions trade a fourth and a fifth round pick for Ngata. Here's a quote from the Detroit News on the deal:

"the Lions' acquisition of the five-time Pro Bowl nose tackle from the Ravens for a pair of mid-round picks was a commendable response. GM Martin Mayhew knows how tricky free agency can be, so he made the trade moments before Baltimore reportedly was about to release Ngata for salary-cap reasons."

...And this is the difference between the Lions' franchise and the Packers'.

Had the Ravens released Ngata, apparently the Lions' GM thought he'd sign for more than 8.5 million for this year.

While I like Ngata, that seems to me unrealistic, completely. He's 31, was suspended four games last year, and has an injury history that, at his age, is unlikely to lessen.

Do any of you think he'd really have gotten the same money or more in a free agent market?

I actually like the move for the Lions. With Suh and most likely Fairley gone, they have a massive hole in the middle. Even if they only keep Ngata for 1 year, he'll sign a decent contract elsewhere and the Lions will get a compensatory selection in the 2017 draft. You can argue they should have kept the picks this year and created depth over the next 2-3 years but with Calvin turning 30 at the start of next season I think they only see themselves as having a 2-3 year window before they have to reload.

Fritz

03-11-2015, 12:55 PM

I actually like the move for the Lions. With Suh and most likely Fairley gone, they have a massive hole in the middle. Even if they only keep Ngata for 1 year, he'll sign a decent contract elsewhere and the Lions will get a compensatory selection in the 2017 draft. You can argue they should have kept the picks this year and created depth over the next 2-3 years but with Calvin turning 30 at the start of next season I think they only see themselves as having a 2-3 year window before they have to reload.

Part of my point is that teams who see themselves as having a two or three year window tend to make bigger mistakes that cost them down the road. The Lions already re-negotiated Suh's contract twice, and Stafford at least once - and that was so they'd have this window. But the bill for Suh came due, and when compounded with all that interest it cost them his services - with no SB or even an NFC championship to show for it. Now they're behind the eight ball and just committed 8.5 mil for Hgata because they were afraid - afraid they only have a brief window.

This year Suh will cost the Lions - I think - about 6.5 million - even though he will be playing for Miami. Add the 8.5 for Ngata, and you have a team paying 15 million dollars this year , plus a fourth and a fifth round pick, for one defensive tackle.

Bossman641

03-11-2015, 02:59 PM

Part of my point is that teams who see themselves as having a two or three year window tend to make bigger mistakes that cost them down the road. The Lions already re-negotiated Suh's contract twice, and Stafford at least once - and that was so they'd have this window. But the bill for Suh came due, and when compounded with all that interest it cost them his services - with no SB or even an NFC championship to show for it. Now they're behind the eight ball and just committed 8.5 mil for Hgata because they were afraid - afraid they only have a brief window.

This year Suh will cost the Lions - I think - about 6.5 million - even though he will be playing for Miami. Add the 8.5 for Ngata, and you have a team paying 15 million dollars this year , plus a fourth and a fifth round pick, for one defensive tackle.

Oh I completely agree with you and remind myself this multiple times during FA when all the other teams go wild and the Packers sit quiet.

The Lions have a cap hit of 9.5M on Suh this year, the 4th largest of any DT...:laugh:

Guiness

03-13-2015, 12:09 PM

And another one
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/13/saints-trade-kenny-stills-to-miami-for-dannell-ellerbe-and-a-third/

This one's a headscratcher, Stills for a 29yr old LB. NO looked like they are trying to dump salary, but instead get rid of Still who's on a cheap rookie contract.

smuggler

03-13-2015, 03:50 PM

Not all of the moves need to be for cap room. Maybe Sean Payton hates him. Maybe they typed in the names wrong on their typewriter when preparing the telegram for the league office. It is truly a mystery.

MadtownPacker

03-13-2015, 05:50 PM

You know what, fuck Harvey!!! He should invent something that automatically pats himself on the back cuz by now his shoulder has got to hurt.

Guiness

03-13-2015, 06:57 PM

You know what, fuck Harvey!!! He should invent something that automatically pats himself on the back cuz by now his shoulder has got to hurt.

Well there ya go, words of wisdom. I'm sure that's some meaningful shit to you, and like Confucius, no one know what you mean, so we nod and smile. Thanks for stopping by!

Joemailman

03-13-2015, 08:24 PM

Dolphins trade Mike Wallace and a 7th to Vikings for a 5th.

Rastak

03-13-2015, 09:13 PM

Dolphins trade Mike Wallace and a 7th to Vikings for a 5th.

Those god damned super bowl sharks make me laugh everytime for some reason.

Good move although it may sound funny, WR is a bit jammed now unless they have written off Patterson (very possible).

smuggler

03-13-2015, 09:39 PM

salary aside that's a pretty f****** awesome trade for the Vikings

MadtownPacker

03-14-2015, 10:41 AM

Well there ya go, words of wisdom. I'm sure that's some meaningful shit to you, and like Confucius, no one know what you mean, so we nod and smile. Thanks for stopping by!
As long as Harvey understands who gives a damn what you think. If you have a moment to get your chin off his nutsack I will explain it to you.

Guiness

03-14-2015, 01:09 PM

As long as Harvey understands who gives a damn what you think. If you have a moment to get your chin off his nutsack I will explain it to you.

Ah, the soothing sound of kind words from MTP - ever the diplomat!

With apologies to Kaitlyn Guenther,

There once was a jumping Harvey
And jumping he would always be
He fell off a cliff
Because he was stiff
Now jumping he will never be

MadtownPacker

03-14-2015, 05:33 PM

Fuck, I posted that first comment in the wrong thread. Was supposed to be in this one:
http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27738-Chip-Kelly-Mad-Genius

Guiness

03-14-2015, 08:04 PM

Fuck, I posted that first comment in the wrong thread. Was supposed to be in this one:
http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27738-Chip-Kelly-Mad-Genius

So, about your first reply to me?

MadtownPacker

03-14-2015, 10:54 PM

So, about your first reply to me?What you want an apology bitch? Fine, sorry for hurting your feelings you fucking pansy. :lol:

smuggler

03-14-2015, 11:40 PM

This might be a dumb question, but why all the talk of HWb?

mgordo

03-14-2015, 11:56 PM

The Herschel Walker Jimmy Johnson great train robbery. Does anyone know if this could still happen today with that many players being traded and getting that many picks? Could the Eagles cut Bradford and get a #1? If the Vikes kept Jennings and traded him, could a team have cut him and gotten a #2?

smuggler

03-15-2015, 01:49 AM

Last I checked, you don't get picks for cutting someone. What are you referring to, specifically?

woodbuck27

03-15-2015, 03:24 AM

How much do the Eagles get accelerated against their cap? McCoy had $3.4M of prorated signing bonus left, 1.7 in 2015, 1.7 in 2016. I assume that all gets accelerated against the Eagles 2015 cap.

Trades in the NFL:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/?gclid=CIm94un1qcQCFQaRaQodwaQApw

It seems to me that the Eagles are over invested now at RB....with Murray and Matthews set at a combined $11.667 M$ plus your projected number.

Buffalo made some strong moves but so have the Washington Redskins over the past 10-15 seasons and there still shaking their heads. An NFL contender for the Super Bowl has to have a very strong QB. I'm guessing that Buffal feels it'll get it done on 'D' much the same as Seattle.

NE is weaker losing Darrell Revis.

Seattle is stronger. If that team allows M. Lynch to truly lead and now with TE Jimmy Graham...look the 'H" out.

There's a team that's going for it in 2015.

The NFC Championship game will be between Green Bay and Seattle.

Count on that.

GO PACK GO !