The NFCN just gets weaker

[Tony Oday]

Except the Packers. Vikes will lose AP and still don't have a decent WR, the Lions lost Donkey Kong and the Bears lose Marshall. I'm not saying that these aren't good long term moves but they all but assure a division Championship again in the short term.

[Jimx29]

Bears going with Cutler can only help us yet again

[Pugger]

Except the Packers. Vikes will lose AP and still don't have a decent WR, the Lions lost Donkey Kong and the Bears lose Marshall. I'm not saying that these aren't good long term moves but they all but assure a division Championship again in the short term.

:lol:

[Joemailman]

I'm wondering how much worse Cutlet will be without Marshall to throw to.

[Smidgeon]

Moreover, two of the other three teams don't have reliable QBs, and the third doesn't know quite what it has yet.

[Rastak]

Except the Packers. Vikes will lose AP and still don't have a decent WR, the Lions lost Donkey Kong and the Bears lose Marshall. I'm not saying that these aren't good long term moves but they all but assure a division Championship again in the short term.


Tony, I'm sure you have some sort of logic behind your post but indulge me. How does losing a guy that missed the previous year make you weaker in the current year by his continued absence?

[Tony Oday]

Because AP could make a pathetic offense really dynamic. The Vikings were already weak now they don't have a quick fix like AP can be.

[Rastak]

Because AP could make a pathetic offense really dynamic. The Vikings were already weak now they don't have a quick fix like AP can be.


Dude, how do you get weaker compared to last year when he wasn't there last year either? Wouldn't they be the fucking same? Sheesh.

[yetisnowman]

By and large, we play in a weak division and weak conference. But until we find a way to get past Seattle who cares?

[pbmax]

By and large, we play in a weak division and weak conference. But until we find a way to get past Seattle who cares?

Weak conference compared to what, the English Premier League?

The AFC is New England, Baltimore and dreck.

Of course, San Fran does seem to have lit themselves on fire and the Eagles might be poised to. But the Cardinals are having a nice offseason, even if they haven't solved the basic problem on offense (age of QB).

[mraynrand]

Tony, I'm sure you have some sort of logic behind your post but indulge me. How does losing a guy that missed the previous year make you weaker in the current year by his continued absence?

Kelly Clarkson says she is not fat.

[mraynrand]

By and large, we play in a weak division and weak conference. But until we find a way to get past Seattle who cares?

addition by subtraction, homey.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--26QUXus3--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/pa7kp20zhhnwtquccn13.jpg

[Rastak]

Seahawks got weaker as they lost Harvin.....(spirit of the thread thing)

[Carolina_Packer]

The Packers may hold serve if they stay healthy
The Vikings are on the rise
The Lions are moving down with one key loss and other more minor ones
The Bears are a dumpster fire

[pbmax]

I might be alone, but I did not walk away from the Seattle playoff game muttering about how the Seahawks are still the better team. I walked away mad the better team didn't win after stomping them on their home turf.

[yetisnowman]

Weak conference compared to what, the English Premier League?

The AFC is New England, Baltimore and dreck.

Of course, San Fran does seem to have lit themselves on fire and the Eagles might be poised to. But the Cardinals are having a nice offseason, even if they haven't solved the basic problem on offense (age of QB).

You seem to love being contrarian with me, but yes the NFC is weaker than the AFC. I really shouldn't have to but if you want me to break it down I will. You already begun to allude to it yourself. Last season and this off season indicates a pretty obvious shift in my opinion.

[pbmax]

You seem to love being contrarian with me, but yes the NFC is weaker than the AFC. I really shouldn't have to but if you want me to break it down I will. You already begun to allude to it yourself. Last season and this off season indicates a pretty obvious shift in my opinion.

Let's break it down.

2014 Playoff Teams AFC
1. Patriots
2. Broncos
3. Steelers
4. Colts
5. Bengals
6. Ravens

Colts might be rising though run defense remains a concern at this point. Steelers have to rebuild an entire defense. Broncos have a new coach, an suddenly very old QB and despite appearances, a mediocre D. Bengals have Andy Dalton at the helm, who has yet to beat top competition on a regular basis. Ravens lost a big WR and their NT, hard to say, but I doubt they drop too far.

Out of these teams, only the Patriots and Colts would frighten the top NFC teams. Ravens maybe. Bills, if they can devise an offense might be tough, but Rex has a terrible record building offenses for his teams and he has another specialty QB at the helm.

NFL Playoffs

1. Seattle
2. Packers
3. Dallas
4. Carolina
5. Cardinals
6. Lions

Seattle and the Packers are a threat to beat any AFC on the road or in the Super Bowl. Dallas, similar to the Ravens only better, have some holes to fill (RB, LB) but if done competently can beat anyone, anywhere as well. Those top three teams outrank their AFC counterparts as a group. The Cardinals, though, provide a trump card. Like a weird combination of the Bengals and Ravens, to ascend to the top level, they are dependent on a QB who is not always available (in this case, its age and injuries). But while he is alive and playing, Palmer can led this team to a victory anywhere as well.

Lions have two big holes to fill plus straighten out an offense with Stafford minus Reggie Bush. Unlike the Bills, Caldwell might be the guy for the job as its his specialty. They might be more stressed to patch the D, though Ngata doesn't hurt. Carolina has a lot of pieces and a good D plus a franchise QB. But like the Bills, its not clear they know how to fix what ails them.

The Eagles should be on this list, but I don't know how to judge the Bradford acquisition.

[Pugger]

I might be alone, but I did not walk away from the Seattle playoff game muttering about how the Seahawks are still the better team. I walked away mad the better team didn't win after stomping them on their home turf.

THIS all damn day.

[pbmax]

Football Analytics from Football Outsiders final tally for 2014

1. Seattle
2. Denver
3. Packers
4. Patriots
5. Baltimore
6. Dallas
7. Philly
8. Pittsburgh
9. Buffalo
10. KC
11. San Fran
12. Indy

That's 5 NFC, 7 AFC out of Top 12. NFC has 2 of top 3, AFC has 3 of Top 5.

Denver is unlikely to repeat. New coach, new running scheme, old QB and aging D. They will slide down this list quite a bit. Seattle and Packers will stay as will New England. Baltimore needs to find pieces like Dallas, each could stay right where they are with a touch of luck. Philly is a mess to predict now. Bradford doesn't even know when he will hit the field. But the Cardinals will get Palmer back. If he stays healthy for most of the season, that team was Top 6 until his injury.

Pittsburgh is undergoing a major D rebuild with new coach. Buffalo needs O help from a HC that doesn't know how to do it. He did get Greg Roman out of San Fran so that might help, but he doesn't have the O line he did in Frisco. San Fran is going to tumble. But they could be replaced in the Top 12 easily by the previous mentioned Cardinals. Among the could enter the Top 12 for the NFC would be the Panthers, the Lions and the Saints.

[Joemailman]

The Bears made significant upgrades on their coaching staff. I would be surprised if they're not better, although Cutler will continue to hold them back. It would be hard for their defense NOT to be better than the disaster they had last year.

[smuggler]

I think it's pretty outlandish to think that the AFC is in any way competitive with the NFC at this point. Not at the top...

[pittstang5]

I might be alone, but I did not walk away from the Seattle playoff game muttering about how the Seahawks are still the better team. I walked away mad the better team didn't win after stomping them on their home turf.

You're not alone. I hope the Packers open the season against them, again. I don't care if it's in Seattle or GB. I want them destroyed.

[esoxx]

You're not alone. I hope the Packers open the season against them, again. I don't care if it's in Seattle or GB. I want them destroyed.

They play them at home this season and I'll be there with blood in my eyes.

Should be a pleasant day.

[King Friday]

The AFC as a whole is getting stronger though...

The AFC East looks to be what we thought the NFC West was going to be last year. If Buffalo gets any kind of decent play from a QB, they are going to challenge NE...and the Dolphins have improved as well. The Colts will probably be better too.

Seattle and Green Bay are still the best teams in the NFL at this point though. It would be shocking if those teams stay healthy are aren't meeting again for a trip to the Super Bowl.

[hoosier]

Weak conference compared to what, the English Premier League?

The AFC is New England, Baltimore and dreck.

Of course, San Fran does seem to have lit themselves on fire and the Eagles might be poised to. But the Cardinals are having a nice offseason, even if they haven't solved the basic problem on offense (age of QB).

Fie! Don't forget Indy!

[mraynrand]

They play them at home this season and I'll be there with blood in my eyes.

It wouldn't surprise me if you got punched in the face before the game even started.

[hoosier]

The AFC as a whole is getting stronger though...

The AFC East looks to be what we thought the NFC West was going to be last year. If Buffalo gets any kind of decent play from a QB, they are going to challenge NE...and the Dolphins have improved as well. The Colts will probably be better too.

Seattle and Green Bay are still the best teams in the NFL at this point though. It would be shocking if those teams stay healthy are aren't meeting again for a trip to the Super Bowl.

The strength of the AFC East is just hypothetical at this point, and depends on the assumption that free agents will be as productive in their new venue as they were in the old. I wouldn't count on that. Buffalo seems finally to have gotten the rebuilding concept right, but the Dolphins are relying on a guy with a checkered past who stands a decent chance of becoming Albert Haynesworth the Second. They sunk way too much money in him, especially considering that their DL was already quite good last year. They would have done much better investing in the offensive line and the secondary. The Pats could take a step back in 2015 due to the loss of their cornerback tandem. And the Jets will always be the Jets.

[Patler]

I might be alone, but I did not walk away from the Seattle playoff game muttering about how the Seahawks are still the better team. I walked away mad the better team didn't win after stomping them on their home turf.

I would like to think that, too; but with how the end of the game played out, I'm not completely convinced of it.
There is something to be said about a team that plays poorly, yet keeps it close enough to win by dominating the end of the game and OT.

[pbmax]

It wouldn't surprise me if you got punched in the face before the game even started.

Which stage of 5 stages is punched in the face?

[pbmax]

I would like to think that, too; but with how the end of the game played out, I'm not completely convinced of it.
There is something to be said about a team that plays poorly, yet keeps it close enough to win by dominating the end of the game and OT.

Agree. But there is also the matter of QB health.

[Fritz]

addition by subtraction, homey.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--26QUXus3--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/pa7kp20zhhnwtquccn13.jpg

I looked at this picture and it made me sick.

[pbmax]

Just to put a bow on it, its probably more likely the Colts become a power next year than the Cards, based on the position their aging players are at (QB versus WR and a couple guys on D) And if I am honest, I think I remember now that while the Cardinals were beating everyone in sight, they weren't Top 6 at Football Outsiders. So their trajectory might not be sky high.

But that still leaves Seahawks, the Packers and Cowboys at the top of the NFC. Next tier might be Cardinals and it gets weird after that. Lions (retooling D, must sustain O), Philly (rebuild), Bears (new coach, QB issues), Giants (Eli in WCO, good receivers, rebuilt D), San Fran (demolition), Saints (retooling a sometimes awful, sometimes good team) and Carolina (needs an offense/weapons).

Compared to the Patriots, Ravens and Colts. Outside of the Cardinals, the next tier in the AFC might have fewer questions. Bills (need an O), Steelers (rebuild D, though they know how to do that), Kansas City still looking for offense, Denver (two very disappointing season endings and hurt QB).

[Patler]

Agree. But there is also the matter of QB health.

Agreed; but, I have a growing feeling that QB health might be a recurring issue with GB. What I am looking forward to is seeing if the changes required in his play because of the injury become an ongoing change is style, which would be a good thing as he gets into the second half of his career.

[Tony Oday]

But the Vikings still suck and their fans were praying AP was back this year to help improve on their dumpster fire of a team, he won't be. The Vikes also think Bridgewater is something special, he is not and never will be a top 10 QB, their elite TE is an injury waiting to happen and their #1 WR is a cast off, this team is 5 years away from relevance. The Bears are just flat out not good because their offensive line must be pissed at Cutler with how bad they are and the Lions lose their soul on Defense, we hate Donkey Kong but he was their grit and fire on that side of the ball. The Lions also have Baby Huey at QB who would be a terrible QB if not for Megatron and he is just getting older and I do not see him turning into Galvatron anytime soon.

[Pugger]

If the girls lose Murray are they still one of the elite teams in the NFC? It sounds like he might end up in Philly with the Iggles.

[pbmax]

If the girls lose Murray are they still one of the elite teams in the NFC? It sounds like he might end up in Philly with the Iggles.

There are some decent backs left but if they rely on the run as much as last year, might need committee. O line is still there.

[pbmax]

Agreed; but, I have a growing feeling that QB health might be a recurring issue with GB. What I am looking forward to is seeing if the changes required in his play because of the injury become an ongoing change is style, which would be a good thing as he gets into the second half of his career.

He said on his radio show that he has had trouble with that leg ever since he had surgery on his knee back in college. I wonder if he gets it re-evaluated, looking to alleviate whatever seems to be out of whack.

[Tony Oday]

If the girls lose Murray are they still one of the elite teams in the NFC? It sounds like he might end up in Philly with the Iggles.

When they lose oft injured Murray they will trade a 2nd and a 6th for AP.

[smuggler]

I think any decent RB can be successful behind the Dallas Oline. Maybe not 1900 yards successful, but they should still be dangerous. I take Dallas before Indy or Denver, really.

[Rastak]

But the Vikings still suck and their fans were praying AP was back this year to help improve on their dumpster fire of a team, he won't be. The Vikes also think Bridgewater is something special, he is not and never will be a top 10 QB, their elite TE is an injury waiting to happen and their #1 WR is a cast off, this team is 5 years away from relevance. The Bears are just flat out not good because their offensive line must be pissed at Cutler with how bad they are and the Lions lose their soul on Defense, we hate Donkey Kong but he was their grit and fire on that side of the ball. The Lions also have Baby Huey at QB who would be a terrible QB if not for Megatron and he is just getting older and I do not see him turning into Galvatron anytime soon.

I have a counterpoint:

Jane you ignorant slut.

Nice rant though.....I'd worry if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground. You're facts are consistently fucked up and you're conclusions similar to that of a five year old almost every time I read them. Never well thought out or accurate.

There, what an intelligent exchange of ideas. :-)

[denverYooper]

I might be alone, but I did not walk away from the Seattle playoff game muttering about how the Seahawks are still the better team. I walked away mad the better team didn't win after stomping them on their home turf.

This.

Plus the Seahawks have to fix their OL and/or figure out when to pay Wilson. What is it? Some kind of test for him? Here, we'll give away the best player on your OL and make you really sing for your supper!

People are all awestruck by the trade for Jimmy Graham but it seems like they might have some fundamental structural issues to deal with on offense and a potential chemistry problem on their hands. But then maybe that's how they roll, de-stabilize to re-stabilize... I don't know, but like Public Enemy said, "Can't truss it".

[Tony Oday]

I have a counterpoint:

Jane you ignorant slut.

Nice rant though.....I'd worry if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground. You're facts are consistently fucked up and you're conclusions similar to that of a five year old almost every time I read them. Never well thought out or accurate.

There, what an intelligent exchange of ideas. :-)

lol I like it :)

Ras the Vikings have an inept offense and you know it. Listening to PA every day leads me to believe that the Vikings think a guy that threw 14 TDs is the next Fran Tarkington is a bit of a stretch.

Now if the Vikes can fix their secondary they have a chance of being a decent 9-7 team if Asiata can be a good back and Teddy reduces his Td to Int ratio from 7:6 to more of a 3:1 ratio. Otherwise it makes the defense have to work way to hard.

[esoxx]

It wouldn't surprise me if you got punched in the face before the game even started.

Ha! Not even.

My Blood Fever resides with the choking dogs that was the Packers the last five minutes of that game. I have nothing against Seahawk fans, nor any fans for that matter.

The exorcism of the Blood Fever will occur only when the Packers curb stomp the 'hawks on the field. Much like the game I witnessed in '97 against Dallas. It was a cleansing.

[mraynrand]

Much like the game I witnessed in '97 against Dallas. It was a cleansing.

Ahhhh...sweet memories!

[Fritz]

Except the Packers. Vikes will lose AP and still don't have a decent WR, the Lions lost Donkey Kong and the Bears lose Marshall. I'm not saying that these aren't good long term moves but they all but assure a division Championship again in the short term


For the Lions, I think it's more than just that move. Here's a quote summing up the situation from today's Detroit Free Press:

"[The Lions] have in the neighborhood of $7 million in salary-cap money left, unless Calvin Johnson or Matthew Stafford restructures his contract.

That is not a lot of money, obviously, because you still have several positions of need: offensive line, cornerback and defensive tackle.

So, are you looking for second-tier guys? And I don't want to bring up a sore topic, but your upcoming draft won't have much depth because you gave up two picks to get Ngata."

$7 mill left, and that has to cover the cost of your draft, which is estimated at about four or five million. And as the article mentions, you just traded away two of your mid-round picks.

Suh's still on the books for the Lions this year, to the tune of, I think, 6.5 mill. Ngata's costing 8.5 mill this year. Johnson's deal is gigantic yet he's on the downside of his career. Stafford's already signed his mega contract and so it would be very expensive down the road if you restructure him to clear more space for this year.

Their best player just walked away.

They're fucked, in my humble opinion.

For all our complaining about the Packers' 2011 draft, the Lions have nobody left from either their 2010 OR 2011 draft classes. No. body.

[yetisnowman]

Let's break it down.

2014 Playoff Teams AFC
1. Patriots
2. Broncos
3. Steelers
4. Colts
5. Bengals
6. Ravens

Colts might be rising though run defense remains a concern at this point. Steelers have to rebuild an entire defense. Broncos have a new coach, an suddenly very old QB and despite appearances, a mediocre D. Bengals have Andy Dalton at the helm, who has yet to beat top competition on a regular basis. Ravens lost a big WR and their NT, hard to say, but I doubt they drop too far.

Out of these teams, only the Patriots and Colts would frighten the top NFC teams. Ravens maybe. Bills, if they can devise an offense might be tough, but Rex has a terrible record building offenses for his teams and he has another specialty QB at the helm.

NFL Playoffs

1. Seattle
2. Packers
3. Dallas
4. Carolina
5. Cardinals
6. Lions

Seattle and the Packers are a threat to beat any AFC on the road or in the Super Bowl. Dallas, similar to the Ravens only better, have some holes to fill (RB, LB) but if done competently can beat anyone, anywhere as well. Those top three teams outrank their AFC counterparts as a group. The Cardinals, though, provide a trump card. Like a weird combination of the Bengals and Ravens, to ascend to the top level, they are dependent on a QB who is not always available (in this case, its age and injuries). But while he is alive and playing, Palmer can led this team to a victory anywhere as well.

Lions have two big holes to fill plus straighten out an offense with Stafford minus Reggie Bush. Unlike the Bills, Caldwell might be the guy for the job as its his specialty. They might be more stressed to patch the D, though Ngata doesn't hurt. Carolina has a lot of pieces and a good D plus a franchise QB. But like the Bills, its not clear they know how to fix what ails them.

The Eagles should be on this list, but I don't know how to judge the Bradford acquisition.

Your assessment of Newton and Palmer is an interesting one. Palmer is 35 coming off his second acl tear and has never led his team to a playoff win. Newton has yet to win a playoff game either(sorry Az last year doesn't count). Detroit lost the best DT in football and Dallas lost a legitimate MVP candidate from last year.
Philly, San Fran, NO? All sort of a confusing mess.
3-10 in the AFC seems much more legit. I guess the way I look at it is if the Pack played a 16 game schedule playing each of those teams twice vs a 16 game schedule playing 3-10 in the NFC twice the latter would look much less daunting.

[yetisnowman]

I think it's pretty outlandish to think that the AFC is in any way competitive with the NFC at this point. Not at the top...

Outlandish to think they are in any way competive at the top? Their best team beat the NFC's best team so I would say that means they are in some way competive at the top. Hyperbole much?

[smuggler]

4 of the top 5 or 5 of the top 6 teams are in the NFC... how is that hyperbole?

[yetisnowman]

4 of the top 5 or 5 of the top 6 teams are in the NFC... how is that hyperbole?

Your original post was as hyperbolic as it gets, and innaccurate. Again the AFC's best team just won the super bowl, so it what way is the AFC not competetive at the top?

Furthermore, what is the basis for your contention that 5 of the NFL's best 6 teams are in NFC?

[Tony Oday]

Their best team didn't play the NFC's best team they beat the Seahawks...

[yetisnowman]

Their best team didn't play the NFC's best team they beat the Seahawks...

Lol, you guys are the biggest homers. We got Seattle at their absolute worst for 55 minutes and still couldn't beat them. Our offense has yet to be productive against this version of the Seattle team, and we have yet to beat them. Until that happens we are not the best team in the NFC.

[mraynrand]

We got Seattle at their absolute worst for 55 minutes and still couldn't beat them.

How do you know they played their worst, versus playing their best and being bested by the Packers? It's the age-old question. Were the Brits better at Agincourt, or did the French guys just have an off day? If you have such a method to determine effective team output over being dominated by the opposition, you should write an App. Every coach and leader of anything would want one.

[Rastak]

lol I like it :)

Ras the Vikings have an inept offense and you know it. Listening to PA every day leads me to believe that the Vikings think a guy that threw 14 TDs is the next Fran Tarkington is a bit of a stretch.

Now if the Vikes can fix their secondary they have a chance of being a decent 9-7 team if Asiata can be a good back and Teddy reduces his Td to Int ratio from 7:6 to more of a 3:1 ratio. Otherwise it makes the defense have to work way to hard.


There is your problem. I quit listening to PA quite a while ago when all he started talking about hockey constantly.

As for Teddy, not sure what his ceiling is but he was second to only 1 QB over the last 5 weeks of the season. Who was that? Your guy. I also like he had the 3rd best accuracy in NFL history for a rookie. Small sample size but I think it bodes well. We shall see.


edit: Asiata lost his starting role to McKinnon last season but he hurt his back. I'm not convinced yet Peterson won't be back by the way. He's under contract no matter what he wants and after last year can't afford to sit.

[Tony Oday]

Oh come on I love the Wild!!!

[yetisnowman]

How do you know they played their worst, versus playing their best and being bested by the Packers? It's the age-old question. Were the Brits better at Agincourt, or did the French guys just have an off day? If you have such a method to determine effective team output over being dominated by the opposition, you should write an App. Every coach and leader of anything would want one.

Because statistically they did play their worst in comparison to other games. Through 56 minutes they had around 140 yds of offense and 5 turnovers. All I can go on is logic and my gut and numbers. From a statistical standpoint our Defense and their offense playing that way for such a long stretch of the game was an anomaly. That's why all that crap with Bostick and the playcalling late should have been beyond irrelevant. They played so poorly and sloppily on offense for so much of the game, (like historically bad) that the game should have been over before any of that silliness happened.

[mraynrand]

Because statistically they did play their worst in comparison to other games.

But maybe it was just the Packers playing so well.

[yetisnowman]

But maybe it was just the Packers playing so well.

You are parsing what I am saying per usual. Sentences later I mentined the word anomaly. Their offense and our defense played in an uncharacteristic way. Its fine we are clearly the best team in the NFC. And the NFC is clearly superior to the AFC. Debating with Homers is futile.

[mraynrand]

Debating with Homers is futile.

yet you seem to continue. If we are all 'homers' then your efforts are futile. If we are something else, say interested fans with different perspectives, then debate might be interesting. Of course, debating with Trolls is futile. :lol:

[pbmax]

OK, let's try this angle. I don't think I am interested in Teams 9 and 10 in yeti's example. Not because he is disagreeable, but because the only group of teams the best of a conference are going to face together are the 1st and 2nd place finishers in each Division. 4 Divisions, 8 teams. Those are the one's that end up on the schedule of good teams. Especially true if we look backward to figure out who is good.

Now that isn't to say that tough but struggling teams don't matter. Ask the 49ers what its like in a Division with Seattle and Arizona. While you are doing this, the entire NFC South is laughing. But for measuring a conference, I like measuring against the top teams, not the toughest Division opponents.

Now I think Team 1-6 in the NFC versus AFC leans decidedly toward the NFC. Yeti feels that 3-10 leans AFC.

What about Teams 3-8?

[yetisnowman]

yet you seem to continue. If we are all 'homers' then your efforts are futile. If we are something else, say interested fans with different perspectives, then debate might be interesting. Of course, debating with Trolls is futile. :lol:

I'd say incessantly parsing and finding cute responses to small portions of what I say while completely ignoring the rest is much more trollish than anything I do. It isn't really a debate. I am happy to hear other perspectives. I just have a tough time dealing with such absolute claims some fans make that aren't backed up by fact or stats. And the subsequent inabilty to address my questions or counterpoints. It just seems that those kind of blinders are reserved for homerism.

[yetisnowman]

Why decidedly? I was going by seeds going into the playoffs. So on a neutral field you would have Sea v NE, GB vs Denver, Dallas v Indy, Carolina v Pitt, Az v Baltimore, and Det v Cincy. You would give the Nfc a strong edge?

[Pugger]

Why decidedly? I was going by seeds going into the playoffs. So on a neutral field you would have Sea v NE, GB vs Denver, Dallas v Indy, Carolina v Pitt, Az v Baltimore, and Det v Cincy. You would give the Nfc a strong edge?

IMO the best teams in the AFC are NE, Indy and Baltimore while the NFC has Seattle, GB, Dallas and AZ. Lord knows what the Iggles will be this year. I have a strong feeling Denver is going to struggle because Manning is going to be 39 in 11 days.

I just got done watching the rewind of the GB/NE game from last year. We dominated them on yardage and TOP. The only reason the game was as close as it was is we struggled in the red zone - and this issue came back to bite us big time in the NFCC game. If we scored TDs instead of FGs that game isn't even close. I hope these red zone issues is something we address this offseason. Fix that and 2015 is gonna be fun.

[pbmax]

Why decidedly? I was going by seeds going into the playoffs. So on a neutral field you would have Sea v NE, GB vs Denver, Dallas v Indy, Carolina v Pitt, Az v Baltimore, and Det v Cincy. You would give the Nfc a strong edge?

End of last year or beginning of this year?

[vince]

NE and Indy are the class of the AFC and GB and Seattle are the class of the NFC no?

I think that's a toss up at this point as to which two teams are better but I wouldn't say NE and Indy are clearly better than Seattle and GB.

The rest is a toss up as far as I'm concerned. I can't tell yet if Dallas/AZ/Caroline (not thrilled with any of those teams for next year yet), or Baltimore/Denver/Cincy (likewise here) are better. Hell, some team in the NFC (not sure who) and the AFC (likewise) is likely to jump up ahead of some of these teams anyway.

Total tossup to me overall but I think NE, Indy, Seattle and GB appear on a tier above the rest of the teams in this league of parity at this point.

[smuggler]

I have Green Bay and Seattle as the two best. Then New England. Then Dallas and Arizona. Then perhaps the Eagles, then go from there.

[smuggler]

Don't want to deal with argumentative cunts all day. Welcome to ignore, bitch.

[mraynrand]

I'd say incessantly parsing and finding cute responses to small portions of what I say while completely ignoring the rest is much more trollish than anything I do. It isn't really a debate. I am happy to hear other perspectives. I just have a tough time dealing with such absolute claims some fans make that aren't backed up by fact or stats. And the subsequent inabilty to address my questions or counterpoints. It just seems that those kind of blinders are reserved for homerism.

You want to 'debate' then stop calling people homers, fucker.

[Pugger]

NE and Indy are the class of the AFC and GB and Seattle are the class of the NFC no?

I think that's a toss up at this point as to which two teams are better but I wouldn't say NE and Indy are clearly better than Seattle and GB.

The rest is a toss up as far as I'm concerned. I can't tell yet if Dallas/AZ/Caroline (not thrilled with any of those teams for next year yet), or Baltimore/Denver/Cincy (likewise here) are better. Hell, some team in the NFC (not sure who) and the AFC (likewise) is likely to jump up ahead of some of these teams anyway.

Total tossup to me overall but I think NE, Indy, Seattle and GB appear on a tier above the rest of the teams in this league of parity at this point.

I think GB and Seattle are clearly better than Indy.

[Pugger]

:oops:

[Bossman641]

Is the discussion about which conference is tougher top to bottom or which conference is stronger at the top?

FWIW the AFC was better this year (33-30-1) but a large part of that was the NFC South's general shittiness (3-12-1).

Current odds to win the SB
Colts 5-1
Seahawks 11-2
Packers 11-2
Patriots 6-1
Cowboys 8-1

[yetisnowman]

You want to 'debate' then stop calling people homers, fucker.

Wow now you guys are cussing me out my name. Didn't know the phrase homer would strike such a nerve. Sorry the shoe fits. Maybe you guys could take Arod's dick out your throat and form an opinion and back it up with explanations... that way we can discuss things and understand the perspectives. Take care you big baby.

[yetisnowman]

[QUOTE=Bossman641;830691]Is the discussion about which conference is tougher top to bottom or which conference is stronger at the top?

FWIW the AFC was better this year (33-30-1) but a large part of that was the NFC South's general shittiness (3-12-1).

Current odds to win the SB
Colts 5-1
Seahawks 11-2
Packers 11-2
Patriots 6-1
Cowboys 8-1[/QUOTE


My original statement was that the NFC is weaker. I meant top to bottom.

[yetisnowman]

End of last year or beginning of this year?

I guess I was thinking the beginning of this year. I do feel like Denver and Baltimore take a step back but I still have to give them and edge over the bottom playoff teams in the NFC just because of the QBs accomplishments and playoff runs.

[yetisnowman]

Don't want to deal with argumentative cunts all day. Welcome to ignore, bitch.

AWWW.........ruined my day! I said what is basis for your contention? Sorry you are too dumb to answer. And too dumb to see that obviously the AFC is competetive at the top of the conference since the PATS won the super bowl. Grow some nuts and at least back up your retarded claims. Or don't make them.

[mraynrand]

Wow now you guys are cussing me out my name. Didn't know the phrase homer would strike such a nerve. Sorry the shoe fits. Maybe you guys could take Arod's dick out your throat and form an opinion and back it up with explanations... that way we can discuss things and understand the perspectives. Take care you big baby.

that's what I expected. You're not interested in discussion. neither am I interested in your ad hominems. and I see you don't like it either. But, no longer. You're ignored.

[Tony Oday]

The Packers are the best overall team in the NFL right now, if they add a decent pair of ILB's and one redzone threat then there is nothing, barring injuries, that stops them this year.

But to what this thread is about is that we can run away with the North!

[Guiness]

The Packers are the best overall team in the NFL right now, if they add a decent pair of ILB's and one redzone threat then there is nothing, barring injuries, that stops them this year.

But to what this thread is about is that we can run away with the North!

APRH - in today's NFL, I think more of it comes down to that than anything else.

[denverYooper]

How do you know they played their worst, versus playing their best and being bested by the Packers? It's the age-old question. Were the Brits better at Agincourt, or did the French guys just have an off day? If you have such a method to determine effective team output over being dominated by the opposition, you should write an App. Every coach and leader of anything would want one.

I do think Green Bay exploited a flaw in Seattle's offensive gameplan: their heavy reliance on playaction bombs to generate chunks of yards. HHCD had a career day shagging Wilson's fly balls out of center field. The Packers sure looked like they knew that was coming and were prepared for it.

[Bossman641]

The Packers are the best overall team in the NFL right now, if they add a decent pair of ILB's and one redzone threat then there is nothing, barring injuries, that stops them this year.

But to what this thread is about is that we can run away with the North!

I also think the Packers will be the best team in the NFL next year, but to balance out my homerism....

579 579 579

[mraynrand]

I do think Green Bay exploited a flaw in Seattle's offensive gameplan: their heavy reliance on playaction bombs to generate chunks of yards. HHCD had a career day shagging Wilson's fly balls out of center field. The Packers sure looked like they knew that was coming and were prepared for it.

Yeah, the Packers were the better team. Game 1 they were a mess; even Stubby has admitted this. But by the time they made and perfected their mid-season adjustments, and being healthy, they were able to exploit a relatively poor Seattle offense. Seattle had few weapons on offense (Wilson and Lynch) and a marginal offensive line. (i.e. it wasn't just a flaw in Seattle's game plan, it was an exploitable deficiency in their offense). The number of turnovers was unusual, but the reason for them wasn't. On the other side, the Packers very fine offense was limited by Seattle's very good defense - and to some extent Rodger's injury. The Packers had a better game plan and executed it to perfection (except the fake FG) until that last INT. But I think taking into account the entire season, comparing their performance against common opponents like NE and Dallas, it's not unreasonable to say that the Packers were overall a little bit better than Seattle and let one get away.

[mraynrand]

APRH - in today's NFL, I think more of it comes down to that than anything else.

APRH - yep, it matters most. Another interesting factor to consider is the first to second year advance that most players with the Packers show (and in general that's where you get a lot of improvement). Packers had four major rookie contributors that could make that advance - Rodgers, Linsley, Adams, and Ft. Dix. You mix in a decent ILB from the draft and another from ???(internal, Clay, FA) and this team could really take off. APRH.

[mraynrand]

But more to the issue of the thread - I think the Vikings will be an 8-10 win team, and they will severely challenge the Packers at least for one game - maybe win it. They know how to limit the Packer offense. BridgeoverTeddywater will be better too.

[pbmax]

I am not buying the Colts they do something in postseason and stop someone's run game.

[smuggler]

I'm with pbmax. I think people are severely overrating the Colts in this forum. How is that D going to stop the Dallas running game? I don't see it.

[Guiness]

I'm with pbmax. I think people are severely overrating the Colts in this forum. How is that D going to stop the Dallas running game? I don't see it.

Well, this forum and a lot of other places. Seems they've won the off-season paper champion crown - very early, the writers usually wait until after the draft to award it, but I guess they got jumpy.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Minny trades for Mike Wallace for a 5th and gets a 7th with him. He is a huge upgrade at WR for them. Real good move for them.

[Rastak]

Minny trades for Mike Wallace for a 5th and gets a 7th with him. He is a huge upgrade at WR for them. Real good move for them.

Yea, not a bad move. WR corps is actually pretty solid with Patterson I guess just returning kicks and watching unless he gets his shit together.

[smuggler]

So they are mostly using Jennings in the slot in now and they have Charles Johnson and Mike Wallace on the outside? that's not too bad...

[pbmax]

That's a $23 million cap number for 2 receivers who have had trouble producing after their first teams.

BridgeH20 and Johnson are cheap, but that's a lot of money for two guys at the backend of careers. If Johnson is more than a good #2, it might work.

[Rastak]

That's a $23 million cap number for 2 receivers who have had trouble producing after their first teams.

BridgeH20 and Johnson are cheap, but that's a lot of money for two guys at the backend of careers. If Johnson is more than a good #2, it might work.

Wallace is 28, isn't Jordy Nelson 29? Jennings is pricey for sure but he can play in this league for sure.

edit: all depends on Bridgewater and if he plays like he closed out the year.

[Bossman641]

Yea, not a bad move. WR corps is actually pretty solid with Patterson I guess just returning kicks and watching unless he gets his shit together.

What exactly is the deal with Patterson? Lazy? Jennings used to be so disciplined with his route running you'd think he could show Patterson a few things.

[yetisnowman]

Minny trades for Mike Wallace for a 5th and gets a 7th with him. He is a huge upgrade at WR for them. Real good move for them.

Minny is certainly on the rise. If AP comes back and Teddy keeps improving....they certainly aren't the completley limited offense that you can just dismiss like in recent years. I feel like actually they may be our stiffest competetion in the north next year.

[Tony Oday]

Minny is certainly on the rise. If AP comes back and Teddy keeps improving....they certainly aren't the completley limited offense that you can just dismiss like in recent years. I feel like actually they may be our stiffest competetion in the north next year.

I just realized you don't watch football...

[red]

Minnesota- where once proud WR's go to die

[pbmax]

Wallace is 28, isn't Jordy Nelson 29? Jennings is pricey for sure but he can play in this league for sure.

edit: all depends on Bridgewater and if he plays like he closed out the year.

Nelson is 29 but he didn't just have three years of drought. But its the other guy (Jennings) who makes those wideouts seem old in addition to the downside.

Wallace is still young enough that he could turn it around, but 3 poor years probably caps how much he will recover. Its still a good pickup and increase in talent, its just expensive.

[Fosco33]

Vikes release Jennings?? Wonder what his sister had to say about it. Lol

[red]

Vikes release Jennings?? Wonder what his sister had to say about it. Lol

wonder what her thoughts on a rod are these days?

[Striker]

At least Greg can leave Minnesota proud of the fact that he broke free from the Packers "brainwashing".

[Rastak]

What exactly is the deal with Patterson? Lazy? Jennings used to be so disciplined with his route running you'd think he could show Patterson a few things.

Not sure, I think maybe a little slow in the head.

[Rastak]

Vikes release Jennings?? Wonder what his sister had to say about it. Lol


Bad move, this guy can still play although he was going to be pretty expensive.

[mraynrand]

BRING BLACK JENNINGS!!!!!!

[Rastak]

BRING BLACK JENNINGS!!!!!!


You could do worse and I bet he's a helluva lot cheaper.

[Tony Oday]

Jennings back as a third option would be nice.

[red]

You could do worse and I bet he's a helluva lot cheaper.

nah, with cobb back we are all full up at WR, and i'm gonna take a flyer here and say TT drafts another WR in the draft

plus, him and his sister burned his bridges back

[Rastak]

Jennings back as a third option would be nice.


You couldn't get a better third option. Only reason TT got rid of him was the price.

[highlander]

Is Jennings better than a seasoned Adams. If not no way do I want him on our team. I can just hear him wanting the rock all the time.

[Bretsky]

Is Jennings better than a seasoned Adams. If not no way do I want him on our team. I can just hear him wanting the rock all the time.

Yes

At right price I'd take him back in a second

[King Friday]

No thanks.

Jennings had a chance to be a Packer for life and he refused. He is on the downside of his career...Adams is going UP, UP, UP. We have a couple other young kids that might be decent too.

Why the hell would anyone want Jennings now? To stand in the way of the development of guys like Adams or Janis?

If we spend any more money, it damn well better be on defense.

[Bossman641]

Picking up Jennings would be a great option if Cobb had not re-signed. Won't happen

[pbmax]

He could return kicks. I am sure that would go over well in the meeting room with M3.

[red]

if we're gonna spend anymore money on offense, it better be for a TE, not another WR

otherwise, make a fucking trade and get us a ILB

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I don't understand why they didn't go after Cameron. 2y/15 was cheaper than the 2y/16 they gave Finley. Regarding Jennings, he's going to Seattle or NE..watch

[smuggler]

Despite how he got autistic when he left, I still like Jennings, but there's just no room for him...

I agree, except not the Pats. He'll definitely get looks from the Seachickies. He's better than anyone else they've got, and probably won't cost much (won't cost a comp pick for them, which is why we stayed away from scrambled brains)

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't understand why they didn't go after Cameron. 2y/15 was cheaper than the 2y/16 they gave Finley. Regarding Jennings, he's going to Seattle or NE..watch

Way too much for Cameron and his concussions. And I like his talent.

[pbmax]

if we're gonna spend anymore money on offense, it better be for a TE, not another WR

otherwise, make a fucking trade and get us a ILB

Greg was a good blocker for a WR, if he puts on some weight, he could play some H-Back or maybe TE.

/JSOCommentor

[mraynrand]

Greg was a good blocker for a WR, if he puts on some weight, he could play some H-Back or maybe TE.

/JSOCommentor

i bust a gut reading that :lol:

[red]

just needs to grow at least 4 inches and put on about 40 pounds of muscle

[yetisnowman]

I just realized you don't watch football...

Sorry you disagree. Have a good one.

[Packers4Glory]

Greg Jennings can go S.A.D.

He actually put up decent numbers considering who he had to work with over the past couple seasons. Going from AR to that is hilarious and he got just what he deserved for being a dick after he left.

[Packers4Glory]

Jennings back as a third option would be nice.

you sir are a moron.

[Tony Oday]

you sir are a moron.

hahahe nice personal attack there. You are telling me that having Jennings being our third option would be a bad thing?

[Upnorth]

I think a cheap Jennings would be a great pick up. Nelson, Cobb and Jennings, 3 good hand guys. It would be great.

[Joemailman]

Bringing in Jennings would just slow down the development of Adams. Besides, I doubt Jennings could swallow his pride enough to sign with the Packers.

[mraynrand]

I think Jennings at this point could be what Driver was to the 2010 team. A great fourth option. But you slow the development of Abracadabra into the NFL receiving powerhouse he is destined to become.

[Upnorth]

I wonder if Adams can become even another Jones. Time will tell but i dont see a high ceiling on him. Conversely, TT has tremendous skill at finding WR's and i'm some guy in Saskatchewan.

[mraynrand]

I wonder if Adams can become even another Jones.

I kinda think he is already better. Probably lack of production due to rookie issues/chemistry, Nelson and Cobb in front of him, and the running game focus. He seems to have the ability to drop a few critical passes like Jones down pat (NE game).

[pbmax]

Here is something on Jones from the Dallas playoff preview. It was one of the things I read that confirmed he had a drop in his performance during the season. But FO thinks it might have been the routes he was asked to run.


Unfortunately, that leaves either Carr or Moore covering Jordy Nelson on the outside. There had better be safety help, and it had better be good. The Packers could also use a good game from rookie Davante Adams, who had a big-time second-half slump. The Packers have used Adams on deeper routes since midseason, which explains part of his drop in catch rate, but not all of it:



Davante Adams, 2014
Rec Pass Yds Yds/Rec C% DVOA Avg Pass Dist
Weeks 1-9 24 35 263 11.0 69% 4.7% 7.9
Weeks 10-17 14 31 183 13.1 45% -25.5% 12.6


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/game-previews/2015/sunday-divisional-round-preview-2015

[Fritz]

A friend of mine thinks Jennings will end up in Seattle.

[Packers4Glory]

hahahe nice personal attack there. You are telling me that having Jennings being our third option would be a bad thing?

For what it would cost to bring him in I'd say yes. We don't need a high cost 3rd WR. Adams looks like he's going to be good. For the cost I'd rather let him be the 3rd WR. Find a TE or spend on a middle linebacker.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 14m14 minutes ago
Thompson on @GregJennings' comments influencing if he'd re-sign WR: "We’re not that sensitive about things like that. Players say things."

SO YOU ARE SAYING THERE IS A CHANCE?!

[Rastak]

Except the Packers. Vikes will lose AP and still don't have a decent WR, the Lions lost Donkey Kong and the Bears lose Marshall. I'm not saying that these aren't good long term moves but they all but assure a division Championship again in the short term.


Oops, you failed in your analysis again. :-)

[vince]

Vikes look better for sure. Just the fact that they're not starting a rookie QB is a big jump.

What's your breakdown of the o-line in Minny Ras? That could tell a big part of the story for them this year I'd say...

I think Detroit and Chicago are no better than last year, and in this league, if you're not moving forward, you're falling behind or getting caught up to whichever the case may be.

[3irty1]

The Vikings are going to be much better this season, especially on offense.

Their OL can only improve, especially with AP back. Teddy will improve, especially with AP back. Charles Johnson looks like a major find.

[pbmax]

It really bugs me that a Packer castoff will be a hit for them. Its like losing a no-hitter after 16 innings. And the guy with the hit was on your roster 10 days ago.

[Patler]

Charles Johnson looks like a major find.

It will be interesting to see how he does now that he can't sneak up on other teams. I really hated to see the Packers lose him, because he was the guy who intrigued me after the draft a few years ago. Didn't even get a chance to see him, except for a week or so in TC.

An interesting fact about him - he is actually a year and a half older than Randall Cobb, even though he was drafted 2 years after Cobb.

[Fritz]

I'd say it looks as if the Vikes are on the right path, the Lions - it's hard to say definitively, but it appears they may not be as good, and the Bears still suck.

[3irty1]

It will be interesting to see how he does now that he can't sneak up on other teams. I really hated to see the Packers lose him, because he was the guy who intrigued me after the draft a few years ago. Didn't even get a chance to see him, except for a week or so in TC.

An interesting fact about him - he is actually a year and a half older than Randall Cobb, even though he was drafted 2 years after Cobb.

If Julio Jones is still sneaking up on teams (like us) then I don't see why Charles Johnson wouldn't be able to keep it going. What I'm interested in is to see how Janis measures up to those guys in the elite athlete WR arms race.

[Patler]

If Julio Jones is still sneaking up on teams (like us) then I don't see why Charles Johnson wouldn't be able to keep it going. What I'm interested in is to see how Janis measures up to those guys in the elite athlete WR arms race.

Julio Jones never sneaked up on anyone. He was a highly regarded rookie. He does so well because he is that good.

Johnson was an afterthought as a draft pick, bounced around from GB to Cleveland, who released him after he initially made the 53 man roster, and then on to MN. No one gave him a thought. Now he will either show he is OK and someone you have to pay attention to, or that he is so good that he will hurt you regardless, just like Jones. (He could also prove to be a flash-in-the-pan performer, or not up to the rigors of an NFL career. I think these are long shots.)

[Rastak]

Vikes look better for sure. Just the fact that they're not starting a rookie QB is a big jump.

What's your breakdown of the o-line in Minny Ras? That could tell a big part of the story for them this year I'd say...

I think Detroit and Chicago are no better than last year, and in this league, if you're not moving forward, you're falling behind or getting caught up to whichever the case may be.

Hey Vince, well it depends on how their super shaky left tackle does I guess. Kahlil was pretty shitty and they ended the season with only two starters on the OL. Their LG was also garbage and he's gone. Shifting their best gaurd to the left is good and they drafted a handful of OL in the draft this year so they just need to find one for RG. TJ Clemmings is penciled in at the moment so we'll see. I'm quietly optimistic, then again I usually am. I guess with only 2 starters left and Matt Asiata as your running back a 7-9 season is shockingly good. With a rested and motivated Peterson back and some serious young talent on defense I think things are for sure looking up.

Bonus content:
Charles Johnson did play really well last year. I might be in the minority but I really like the Vikings receiving corps this year. Wallace might be a diva but he is turning heads in OTAs with his speed and that's really what Norv Turner was looking for.

[3irty1]

Julio Jones never sneaked up on anyone. He was a highly regarded rookie. He does so well because he is that good.

Johnson was an afterthought as a draft pick, bounced around from GB to Cleveland, who released him after he initially made the 53 man roster, and then on to MN. No one gave him a thought. Now he will either show he is OK and someone you have to pay attention to, or that he is so good that he will hurt you regardless, just like Jones. (He could also prove to be a flash-in-the-pan performer, or not up to the rigors of an NFL career. I think these are long shots.)

I brought up Julio because Charles Johnson is a player in that sort of mold, and for a guy who never sneaked up on anyone Julio Jones sure catches a ton of passes that never even get contested. Julio did play on a team with other WR talent so the threshold for attention is higher, but what I'm saying is super athletes among super athletes like those guys have a way of making things look easy that could be interpreted as "sneaking up on teams." But you're right of course, Charles Johnson the man has a history of sabotaging Charles Johnson the player even before making hundreds of thousands of dollars as a professional.

[3irty1]

Hey Vince, well it depends on how their super shaky left tackle does I guess. Kahlil was pretty shitty and they ended the season with only two starters on the OL. Their LG was also garbage and he's gone. Shifting their best gaurd to the left is good and they drafted a handful of OL in the draft this year so they just need to find one for RG. TJ Clemmings is penciled in at the moment so we'll see. I'm quietly optimistic, then again I usually am. I guess with only 2 starters left and Matt Asiata as your running back a 7-9 season is shockingly good. With a rested and motivated Peterson back and some serious young talent on defense I think things are for sure looking up.

Bonus content:
Charles Johnson did play really well last year. I might be in the minority but I really like the Vikings receiving corps this year. Wallace might be a diva but he is turning heads in OTAs with his speed and that's really what Norv Turner was looking for.

There is a ton of speed on that offense. Its very Norv Turneresqe. Between Wallace and Johnson though you've got a pair of guys whose best route is probably Teddy Bridgewater's worst route. Maybe doesn't matter that much in this case. Those two guys are enough to get defenses playing man, then Teddy can play to his strengths working the seams and crossing routes. Play action from AP back is clearly an enormous advantage the vikes get back too.

[mraynrand]

So many stories of great talent going awry...

http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/2015/05/03/17699149-large.jpg

"Colt Lyerla practices for the 110 Meter High Hurdles during Family night at Green Bay" - JSOnline

[Rastak]

There is a ton of speed on that offense. Its very Norv Turneresqe. Between Wallace and Johnson though you've got a pair of guys whose best route is probably Teddy Bridgewater's worst route. Maybe doesn't matter that much in this case. Those two guys are enough to get defenses playing man, then Teddy can play to his strengths working the seams and crossing routes. Play action from AP back is clearly an enormous advantage the vikes get back too.


Can't argue that through college and most of his first season. The only reason I have some optimism is I read that through the final 5 weeks he led the nfl in completion percentage on 20 yard passes. Agree on the play action angle. But that only works if Peterson is actually explosive.

[Fritz]

The Bears, with Cutler at the helm, only seem to be able to get so far. John Fox seems a solid head coach, but given that he's saddled with Cutler, and given that weird draft class - how many players did they draft? - they seem to be keeping afloat but not much more. Detroit is counting on Matt Stafford, Eric Ebron, and the kid running back to pump up that offense, and Ziggy Ansah and Ngata to make up for the Suh, Young, Fairley et al losses. But Megatron is getting older, and after him and Golden (Shower) Tate, not sure Broyles is going to supply much more. Not sure. I think Minny has the potential to make the biggest jump. Good HC, I think. And if anybody can defy age, it might be AP.

[pbmax]

Weak conference compared to what, the English Premier League?

The AFC is New England, Baltimore and dreck.

Of course, San Fran does seem to have lit themselves on fire and the Eagles might be poised to. But the Cardinals are having a nice offseason, even if they haven't solved the basic problem on offense (age of QB).

Worst preseason prognostication ever.