ODE TO TED---TOP 10 HITS and TOP 10 MISSES

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ted-thompsons-top-hits-and-misses-b99487611z1-301633121.html

[smuggler]

Putting Khyri Thornton on that list seems pretty premature, though I admit he didn't look good last year...

[vince]

Jolly, Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Linsley, Starks, Burnett, Hawk, Raji, Dix, Daniels, Barrington, - there's at least second set of ten guys over Flynn. Not that he wasn't a good pick but the guy had one good game... Crosby, Colledge, James Jones, Spitz, Bishop, Neal, Hyde, Heyward...

[Bretsky]

I thought Thorrnston looked like junk form the start fwiw

I'd have put the Backman in here over Flynn

[Pugger]

Jolly, Bulaga, Bakhtiari, Linsley, Starks, Burnett, Hawk, Raji, Dix, Daniels, Barrington, - there's at least second set of ten guys over Flynn. Not that he wasn't a good pick but the guy had one good game... Crosby, Colledge, James Jones, Spitz, Bishop, Neal, Hyde, Heyward...

Yes, I have no clue why he said Flynn except perhaps taking into account where he was drafted? Any of the names you mentioned should have been in that list instead.

I tend to put an asterick next to both Harrell and Sherrod. We'll never know if these kids could have really played or not. IMO Brohm was Ted's worst pick followed by Worthy. How did that guy fool so many people? He was truly dreadful.

[3irty1]

I'd have put Brohm and Worthy and probably Sherrod too over Harrell. To me its a way bigger miss to drop a pick on someone who can't play at all than someone who's an injury bust. Especially considering Harrell got injured in the weight room which got a S&C coach fired.

Lee seems a little high on that list too. He sucked but didn't he go on to suck less somewhere else?

[Fritz]

I'd have put Brohm and Worthy and probably Sherrod too over Harrell. To me its a way bigger miss to drop a pick on someone who can't play at all than someone who's an injury bust. Especially considering Harrell got injured in the weight room which got a S&C coach fired.

Lee seems a little high on that list too. He sucked but didn't he go on to suck less somewhere else?


No, he maintained his high level of suckitude when he moved on.

I'd say Brohm and Worthy are the top two misses - I do think injuries robbed Sherrod and Harrell of whatever chance they might've had.

I think it's early to put Thornton on that list, too. There are other, more bust-worthy picks you could include. Like Terrell Manning, for one. Or who was that safety they drafted in, what, the third round, maybe the fourth, who played really stiff and upright and never did jack shit except for one play - an interception, I think - against Detroit?

I also don't see Flynn as a top pick. Bakteria is a better pick, as were others mentioned above.

[mraynrand]

Or who was that safety they drafted in, what, the third round, maybe the fourth, who played really stiff and upright and never did jack shit except for one play - an interception, I think - against Detroit?

Will Blackmon?

[pbmax]

Will Blackmon?

He is still playing, though mainly special teams/returns. I don't think Packers were looking for a return specialist.

[Guiness]

Flynn may not have contributed as often or as visibly, but it's often said that the backup QB is the second most important guy on the team. To get 4 years of that position from a 7th round pick - hard to argue with the value in that. 2013, the Packers don't make the playoffs if he doesn't come in against the Vikings.

[3irty1]

No, he maintained his high level of suckitude when he moved on.

I'd say Brohm and Worthy are the top two misses - I do think injuries robbed Sherrod and Harrell of whatever chance they might've had.

I think it's early to put Thornton on that list, too. There are other, more bust-worthy picks you could include. Like Terrell Manning, for one. Or who was that safety they drafted in, what, the third round, maybe the fourth, who played really stiff and upright and never did jack shit except for one play - an interception, I think - against Detroit?

I also don't see Flynn as a top pick. Bakteria is a better pick, as were others mentioned above.

Aaron Rouse. The int was against the Colts. Guy looked like Kam Chancellor. Classic "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane."

[smuggler]

Abdul Hodge was actually a good player, he just had no cartilage left in either knee even before we drafted him. Unlike Harrell or Sherrod, that still makes him a bad pick.

[mraynrand]

Aaron Rouse. The int was against the Colts. Guy looked like Kam Chancellor. Classic "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane."

I shoulda remembered that one; I was at that game. That was one of those 'landed in your lap' kind of INTs - like those 3 INTs by Jumal Rolle last year. :)

[Fritz]

Aaron Rouse. The int was against the Colts. Guy looked like Kam Chancellor. Classic "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane."

That's the guy. I just looked him up. Third round, 89th overall pick. 6'-4", 225 lbs.

He sucked. Hard. He's got to be on that "bottom ten" list somewhere.

[Carolina_Packer]

That's the guy. I just looked him up. Third round, 89th overall pick. 6'-4", 225 lbs.

He sucked. Hard. He's got to be on that "bottom ten" list somewhere.

Kam Chancellor was picked 5th round, 133rd overall in 2010

Both tall Virginia Tech safeties. How could one be such a stiff?

[wist43]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.

[Joemailman]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.

Well, that's that. Better luck in Round 2, TT.

[mraynrand]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.

LOL Unsound! :razz:

[Maxie the Taxi]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.

Disagree. I didn't pay attention to Randall because I didn't pay attention to Safeties. However, he's in essence a cover CB, which is what we lacked. So I'm willing to trust TT on this.

The only thing I hate about the selection is that we missed out on the best ILB available, IMO. Now the options for ILB are Kendricks/McKinney/Perryman, for whom we'll likely have to trade up, or Dawson who might slide to our 2nd rnd pick.

Then again, TT might cross us up again and go with a lower rnd ILB and take a WR or DL guy with our 2nd.

[Fritz]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.


The Packers really need to hire you. You already know he's going to be terrible. Wow. You ought to be an NFL GM.

[smuggler]

Wist and (to a lesser extent?) red are so certain that he'll suck that I feel much better about the pick.

Thanks for your service. guys!

[wist43]

The Packers really need to hire you. You already know he's going to be terrible. Wow. You ought to be an NFL GM.

No shit, huh, lol...

He's a midget, misses tons of tackles, takes bad angles...

By TT's way of evaluating though - those things mean nothing. All TT cares about is that he can run (which he can), and he can play the ball in the air (which he can).

So, we're going to be stuck with watching this midget bounce off of Alshon Jeffrey, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin White - it is what it is.

I saw very little on tape that would warrant a 1st round pick - more like a 5th rounder. He's 185 lbs soaking wet...

[mraynrand]

So, we're going to be stuck with watching this midget bounce off of Alshon Jeffrey, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin White

That's a penalty!

[red]

Wist and (to a lesser extent?) red are so certain that he'll suck that I feel much better about the pick.

Thanks for your service. guys!

he might turn into something decent in a couple years or 3, but our team is set up to win now with just a couple added pieces

almost everything you read on the guys says its gonna take time with him, but he should be able to set in on nickle and dime situations early and contribute on special teams

thats not what you want out of a first rounder IMO, that sounds more like a later round pick

[mraynrand]

I saw very little on tape that would warrant a 1st round pick - more like a 5th rounder. He's 185 lbs soaking wet...

And Waynes is one inch taller and 1 pound heavier. So why did he go earlier? Because he can run, faster than Randall. And some of his angles look like crap on tape - when you're trying to find flaws. Try and get your story straight, guy. You always fall into the same trap - you have such vested interests in proving your negative viewpoints that you ignore straight up facts and/or make absurd, contradictory arguments.

By the way, the league doesn't agree with you. No one is drafting 'thumper' corners because, guess what, the rules have changed. You miss that one maybe?

[mraynrand]

he might turn into something decent in a couple years or 3, but our team is set up to win now with just a couple added pieces

almost everything you read on the guys says its gonna take time with him, but he should be able to set in on nickle and dime situations early and contribute on special teams

thats not what you want out of a first rounder IMO, that sounds more like a later round pick

By all accounts Sam Shields was a total moron coming in his first year. How'd that turn out? Ya think maybe the Packer organization has some confidence in their ability to get raw guys prepared and on the field? That's kinda their modus operandi, isn't it? Not a lot of old fellas on the Packers.

[pbmax]

I saw very little on tape that would warrant a 1st round pick - more like a 5th rounder. He's 185 lbs soaking wet...

I couldn't find much video on the web. Do you gave links to the video you watched?

[pbmax]

he might turn into something decent in a couple years or 3, but our team is set up to win now with just a couple added pieces

almost everything you read on the guys says its gonna take time with him, but he should be able to set in on nickle and dime situations early and contribute on special teams

thats not what you want out of a first rounder IMO, that sounds more like a later round pick

I haven't read that at all. The Packers needed a cover guy for the dime, general depth and an influx of talent. This is that guy.

He won't start, Hayward and Shields will. He needs to play nickel and dime. Outside of maybe Waynes, I don't think there was a CB getting drafted this year that is going to unseat Hayward.

[wist43]

I'm not saying he'll "suck"... I just don't like smurf-like CB's that can't tackle. My expectation is that he'll primarily be our nickelback - which it would seem with this pick, Dom intends to go back to being our base.

From what I could see - he does some things well, and other things not so well - on top of the fact that he's a midget. He has a narrow frame - which means he won't be able to sustain the "fake weight" he put on for the combine.

I read a couple of scouting reports that said they thought he had added "fake weight" for the combine. Another criticism is that he is an "ankle biter" tackler, i.e. he dives at guys feet b/c he's so slight of frame that's his best chance of getting the guy on the ground - no way could he play safety at the NFL level - he's simply too small.

Don't see how he can compete with NFL WR's on the outside - best case scenario is that he'll be a competent nickelback.

[pbmax]

Trust the Beard!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD7irhPUMAEA7y8.jpg

[wist43]

I couldn't find much video on the web. Do you gave links to the video you watched?

I stumbled onto a couple of yahoo's who seemed to be living in their moms basement, lol... nerds that had no life.

But they had a lot of tape of Randall, and played it back in forth trying to evaluate him. Unfortunately I was watching it on my TV - which cut out, and when I got it back I couldn't find it again... I only originally found it after chasing a search down a rabbit hole. I'll try to find it again, b/c that was the most footage I found on Randall. Everything else was just highlight nonsense that didn't show much.

[mraynrand]

I'm not saying he'll "suck"... I just don't like smurf-like CB's that can't tackle. My expectation is that he'll primarily be our nickelback - which it would seem with this pick, Dom intends to go back to being our base.

From what I could see - he does some things well, and other things not so well - on top of the fact that he's a midget. He has a narrow frame - which means he won't be able to sustain the "fake weight" he put on for the combine.

I read a couple of scouting reports that said they thought he had added "fake weight" for the combine. Another criticism is that he is an "ankle biter" tackler, i.e. he dives at guys feet b/c he's so slight of frame that's his best chance of getting the guy on the ground - no way could he play safety at the NFL level - he's simply too small.

Don't see how he can compete with NFL WR's on the outside - best case scenario is that he'll be a competent nickelback.

Go look at the combine video. The guys has a solid build. I really don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The guys who are a couple inches taller are rangy - have to be to keep up speed. You start sacrificing quickness in and out of breaks for that height. The height doesn't matter if you can't stick and move. This guy can. Good feet. Good quickness turning and running. Not everyone can be tall and fast like Richard Sherman (btw, Sherman has the same 40 time as Randall).

[pbmax]

I stumbled onto a couple of yahoo's who seemed to be living in their moms basement, lol... nerds that had no life.

But they had a lot of tape of Randall, and played it back in forth trying to evaluate him. Unfortunately I was watching it on my TV - which cut out, and when I got it back I couldn't find it again... I only originally found it after chasing a search down a rabbit hole. I'll try to find it again, b/c that was the most footage I found on Randall. Everything else was just highlight nonsense that didn't show much.

vince has game cutups of him in the Demarious thread.

[dahammer001]

No shit, huh, lol...

He's a midget, misses tons of tackles, takes bad angles...

By TT's way of evaluating though - those things mean nothing. All TT cares about is that he can run (which he can), and he can play the ball in the air (which he can).

So, we're going to be stuck with watching this midget bounce off of Alshon Jeffrey, Calvin Johnson, and Kevin White - it is what it is.

I saw very little on tape that would warrant a 1st round pick - more like a 5th rounder. He's 185 lbs soaking wet...

I agree with your analysis

[pbmax]

I would add Damarious Randall to the misses list... it's official - terrible pick.

Bump!! :D

[wist43]

Bump!! :D

He's soft... still don't want him. You guys like soft players, TT likes soft players, and the Packers are a soft team... I'm stuck with the lot of you ;)

TT being a LB in the league once upon a time, you'd think he'd like tough football players, but given a choice between a soft player and a tough player, he'll take the soft player every time. I don't get it... I guess he likes to see his teams get their asses kicked year after year in the playoffs against much tougher teams.

To make matters worse, we're not even the best team in our division anymore... and yes, Minnesota is a much tougher football than Ted's ballarinas.

[Carolina_Packer]

Back to Bretsky's original point of the thread, I like the supplemental lists of hits that posters provided.

If you look at the JS Online list, http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ted-thompsons-top-hits-and-misses-b99487611z1-301633121.html my take-away from the worst 10 picks list is that there is a distinct difference between busting out because of injury vs. someone who couldn't play at the NFL level.

Injury list=Justin Harrell, Derek Sherrod, Jerel Worthy, Kyrhi Thornton, Abdul Hodge, Alex Green

Stiffs=Brian Brohm, Pat Lee, Cory Rodgers, Jerron McMillian

By my count that's 6 injuries to 4 stiffs. I know ultimately a bust is a bust whether because of injury or because the guy isn't NFL-caliber. I think it's unfair to hang the bust label on a guy who gets injured and isn't able to play, or gets injured, comes back, but ultimately can not play. Was that because of the injury or injuries? Hard to know for sure. How should that hang on the GM? Sometimes it's just bad luck.

TT must own the guys on the stiffs list, but shouldn't for the guys on the injury list. If you need to put Thornton on the stiffs list because his hamstring injury seemed a bit like a "red-shirt" year, I'll give you that one. He was over-drafted whether injured or not. Brohm was a system guy at Louisville, like drafting a Mike Leach QB from his spread system. Highly productive, but it doesn't necessarily transfer to the next level. Pat Lee and Jerron McMillian looked lost. Cory Rodgers was obviously fool's gold. The Niners had him in after the Packers and he lasted 3 weeks on their practice squad. Then he went to the CFL, had a small amount of production in two seasons and by 2009 was done. To me, Cory Rodgers (not Justin Harrell) is TT's biggest bust, because he was hyped, wasn't injured and never made it on the roster after being drafted in the 4th round. Ouch!

All GM's miss, but I think you must discount the misses due to injury. Sure, the guys who got injured may have never been All-Pro, but it's hard enough to play the sport, let alone having to deal with either catastrophic or nagging injuries. TT has done an exceptional job of building a complete roster. He doesn't necessarily draft big name guys, with obvious notable exceptions, or ones that some fans know the best coming out of college, but most of the time, the ones he drafts/signs that ultimately make the roster, can play.

[mraynrand]

He's soft... still don't want him. You guys like soft players, TT likes soft players, and the Packers are a soft team... I'm stuck with the lot of you ;)

TT being a LB in the league once upon a time, you'd think he'd like tough football players, but given a choice between a soft player and a tough player, he'll take the soft player every time. I don't get it... I guess he likes to see his teams get their asses kicked year after year in the playoffs against much tougher teams.

To make matters worse, we're not even the best team in our division anymore... and yes, Minnesota is a much tougher football than Ted's ballarinas.

Ironically, the soft defense dominated the top NFL offense in the playoffs. But you don't really care about facts, do you.

[Pugger]

Carolina_Packer, I don't like to label guys who get injured and then can't play as true busts either because we can never know if they were stiffs or not. I wonder if getting burned by injured high draft picks in the past caused Ted to pass on J. Smith and Jack in this last draft?

[pbmax]

Ironically, the soft defense dominated the top NFL offense in the playoffs. But you don't really care about facts, do you.

You could say that Randall's brain failed him in an important way in OT. Its obvious and I knew it long ago that T2 loves dumb, athletic players.

He has now over-corrected now with his 2016 draft of valedictorians. But too late to help Rodgers. All is lost, we can only wait for someone clearly better like Eliot Wolf to take charge.

[vince]

He's soft... still don't want him. You guys like soft players, TT likes soft players, and the Packers are a soft team... I'm stuck with the lot of you ;)

TT being a LB in the league once upon a time, you'd think he'd like tough football players, but given a choice between a soft player and a tough player, he'll take the soft player every time. I don't get it... I guess he likes to see his teams get their asses kicked year after year in the playoffs against much tougher teams.

To make matters worse, we're not even the best team in our division anymore... and yes, Minnesota is a much tougher football than Ted's ballarinas.
And here's the tough guy you like.
http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Wired-For-Sound-Ronald-Darby/3be1105e-8808-4412-8335-1867e40d9c30

And how about that ankle bite at about 1:50... ?

[Carolina_Packer]

Carolina_Packer, I don't like to label guys who get injured and then can't play as true busts either because we can never know if they were stiffs or not. I wonder if getting burned by injured high draft picks in the past caused Ted to pass on J. Smith and Jack in this last draft?

I seem to recall Denver Yoop expressing that sentiment in a previous post. If you look at that list of 10 failures, and 6 of them were related to a medical issue, I'm sure as a GM that would make you re-evaluate your on-boarding process. Once bitten, twice shy, I guess.

[Patler]

And here's the tough guy you like.
http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Wired-For-Sound-Ronald-Darby/3be1105e-8808-4412-8335-1867e40d9c30

And how about that ankle bite at about 1:50... ?

...and he pushed the guy out of bounds at about 1:25 :whaa: , another criticism of GB's "softy" :no:.

Looked like he might have slid off a tackle just before that, but help came.

All in one game!!

[wist43]

And here's the tough guy you like.
http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Wired-For-Sound-Ronald-Darby/3be1105e-8808-4412-8335-1867e40d9c30

And how about that ankle bite at about 1:50... ?

lol... he's taking the outside away dummy - do you understand angles?? Leverage?? Duh...

[wist43]

Ironically, the soft defense dominated the top NFL offense in the playoffs. But you don't really care about facts, do you.

Always said I like a lot of the players, especially in the front seven since TT decided defense was an actual part of the game... Most of our defensive problems of late are b/c of dunderdummy.

And when the game is on the line, we get crap like that 2 play, 45 second drive that ended our season.

Don't you think that some blame should be assessed when you only win 2 SB's in the span of 25 years, all the while rostering 2 HOF QB's?? Something's wrong with that picture... but it's good enough for you guys. Not for me.

I want to win championships.

[mraynrand]

Lol wist. Making excuses again. never say die dude. Yeah it really sucks to have another HOF QB on the heels of the last. And be in the playoffs every year and draft at the bottom of the first round most of the time.

The league is designed to prevent repeat champions and only a handful of teams defy the yoke of parity.

But don't let me stop you. Two Super Bowls in 25 years sucks. Yeah it feels good to say it!!

[vince]

lol... he's taking the outside away dummy - do you understand angles?? Leverage?? Duh...
Yeah I understand angles and leverage. Do you understand prevaricative grandiosity....?

[wist43]

Yeah I understand angles and leverage. Do you understand prevaricative grandiosity....?

I said I didn't think he'd suck - he doesn't suck, and for the record I hope he plays great. Contrary to what you guys may think, I do want to win championships.

I hope he improves and that we have a good corner for the next 7-8 years. That said, I wanted the more physical player, and IMO opinion, and the opinion of most of the football world - the better player, but TT sees DB's differently.

The consensus around the league is that Darby is a better player than Randall. I thought that on draft day, and I think it's true today.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I said I didn't think he'd suck - he doesn't suck, and for the record I hope he plays great. Contrary to what you guys may think, I do want to win championships.

I hope he improves and that we have a good corner for the next 7-8 years. That said, I wanted the more physical player, and IMO opinion, and the opinion of most of the football world - the better player, but TT sees DB's differently.

The consensus around the league is that Darby is a better player than Randall. I thought that on draft day, and I think it's true today.

What about the other 25-30 corners you would have taken over him--since you had him as 5th round pick?

[Patler]

The consensus around the league is that Darby is a better player than Randall. I thought that on draft day, and I think it's true today.

He may very well be, but how do you know the consensus around the league? What you know is maybe a summary of the media, which you support by helpful public statements of players or a random scout or head office guy; however, I seriously doubt you have any insight into a general league consensus about any player, let alone these two.

What you have is your opinion, just like the rest of us.

[Patler]

lol... he's taking the outside away dummy - do you understand angles?? Leverage?? Duh...

...and, of course, when Randall does the same thing, he's not......because he is soft?????

[Patler]

Don't you think that some blame should be assessed when you only win 2 SB's in the span of 25 years, all the while rostering 2 HOF QB's?? Something's wrong with that picture... but it's good enough for you guys. Not for me.

I want to win championships.

Yes, wist43 is clearly the superior fan to any of the rest of us................., because no one cares like him.

[mraynrand]

He may very well be, but how do you know the consensus around the league? What you know is maybe a summary of the media, which you support by helpful public statements of players or a random scout or head office guy; however, I seriously doubt you have any insight into a general league consensus about any player, let alone these two.

What you have is your opinion, just like the rest of us.

it sounds good, though, when you state it like a fact. Of course, the actual facts, the actual numbers of the two players tell another story, a story Wist not surprisingly ignores, because it doesn't fit his preconceived notion of how things are and should be. Darby started 15 games; Randall 9. If you project Randalls numbers out over 15 games, he far surpasses Darby's (he has more INTs in 9 games than Darby - IIRC it is 3-2). I looked carefully at the number of plays each had, and Randall is more productive than Darby per play. Remember, Wist doesn't gather information and make informed opinions - he starts with conclusions and only accepts information that agrees with him. That is his history on these forums, unfortunately.

As far as the league goes, I was unable to find ANY direct comparisons, but there are plenty of equally complimentary articles:

Darby:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000558108/article/rookie-of-the-year-watch-ronald-darby-a-shutdown-cb


Randall:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2578432-green-bay-packers-rookie-damarious-randall-becoming-top-nfl-cover-corner
"One of the most iconic moments of his young career was captured on the Packers' Instagram account in that game, when Randall laid a punishing hit on Kansas City's Charcandrick West. Randall is showing traits of being a physical enforcer that were not part of his draft profile."

They are not directly compared here, but they are on the list of top corners. Again, with fewer snaps, Randall has comparative numbers

http://www.allmediany.com/news/57517-nfl-rookie-watch-cornerbacks-marcus-peters-ronald-darby-amp-damarious-randall-lock-it-down

Early on, Darby was considered a better corner mostly because he started on Day 1 and had a head start over Randall. He also is simply a very good corner. So too, it appears is Randall. Both good draft picks.

Finally, I discovered there is a cute woman out there named 'Darby Randall' and a dumpy guy named 'Randall Darby.' Search Google at your own risk.

[Patler]

He's soft... still don't want him. You guys like soft players, TT likes soft players, and the Packers are a soft team... I'm stuck with the lot of you ;)


Yes, I've noticed that, too. So often TT and many on here downgrade players because they just aren't soft enough. :roll:

You have an opinion that Randall is soft. Many of us do not believe that he is soft. He did not seem to play soft at all last year, from what I recall, and I don't understand why you continue in your argument that he is soft. I'm getting old and forgetful, but I don't recall a single play when I got frustrated with him for lack of a physical approach to the play, as I so often did with Tramon Williams and do at times with Sam Shields. Randall may not be a physical specimen at CB, so may not make stunningly physical plays frequently, but that doesn't mean he plays soft, in my opinion.

[Fritz]

Yes, wist43 is clearly the superior fan to any of the rest of us................., because no one cares like him.


My worst fault is that I care too much.

[mraynrand]

My worst fault is that I care too much.

you, sir, are ready for your interview.

[wist43]

What you have is your opinion, just like the rest of us.

Of course, but the difference between myself and the rest of you weak-kneed pussies is that you don't like my take, so you turn it personal and go to great lengths to attack me. I'm not wired that way. Petty personal shit doesn't bother me to the point where I'm going to invest my all-too limited time and go back dig up archives just to poke one of you fucks in the eye. Can't begin to fathom how much time it takes for you guys to engage in that petty bullshit.

I'm so short of time these days, that I'm only able to spend a few minutes online on most days... if the light indicates that I'm logged in, it's more than likely I just didn't close the page as I had to run off and live my life. I've got 3 young kids, work full time on an opposite shift from my wife - so we don't have to put our kids in daycare. It would be easier to just let the schools and day care raise our kids like the rest of America, but we don't want that, so we sacrifice.

Get over yourselves and offer up an opinion. No need to get your greasy panties in a twist b/c you don't someone else's take.

[Patler]

Of course, but the difference between myself and the rest of you weak-kneed pussies is that you don't like my take, so you turn it personal and go to great lengths to attack me. I'm not wired that way. Petty personal shit doesn't bother me to the point where I'm going to invest my all-too limited time and go back dig up archives just to poke one of you fucks in the eye. Can't begin to fathom how much time it takes for you guys to engage in that petty bullshit.

I'm so short of time these days, that I'm only able to spend a few minutes online on most days... if the light indicates that I'm logged in, it's more than likely I just didn't close the page as I had to run off and live my life. I've got 3 young kids, work full time on an opposite shift from my wife - so we don't have to put our kids in daycare. It would be easier to just let the schools and day care raise our kids like the rest of America, but we don't want that, so we sacrifice.

Get over yourselves and offer up an opinion. No need to get your greasy panties in a twist b/c you don't someone else's take.

Wist, I think you should read your own comments to see who raises the personal attacks. Mnny of your remarks contain personal criticisms, the rest of us like soft players, unlike you; the rest of us don't want to win championships, but you do; the rest of us don't understand, but you know what the league knows; the rest of us don't......etc. Quite frankly, I have tired of your criticisms of the rest of us, so this morning I decided to simply turnaround a few toward you from this page and the preceding page of only this thread. I didn't venture any further than yesterday of this thread, because I finally read it. Of course, you immediately get your panties in a bunch and tell us how mistreated you are (never making a personal comment yourself); how difficult YOUR life is, (as if none of us have ever experienced or are not now experiencing difficulties ourselves perhaps just as bad, perhaps even worse).

signed;
One of the "weak-kneed pussies" (from you above "well-reasoned" analysis)

[Fritz]

What's interesting to me is that those people like Wist - the ones who that claim they want or expect more out of their teams than other (implicitly lesser) fans - seem to think that accrues them more man-points, or makes them better fans somehow. It's strange, because their supposed larger (and somehow therefore better) desire has no impact on what Ted Thompson does, or Mike McCarthy, or anyone. I'm not quite sure what the leg-up is on us fans who want the Packers to win but recognize that success is exceedingly difficult to attain in the NFL.

Sometimes I agree with Wist on particular players, but I am really turned off by those tirades in which Ted Thompson, and anyone who admires his work, is addressed as "liking" soft players, or not caring about stopping the run, or whatever it is. Sure, their are trade-offs in the NFL. The resources are limited. You can't have an All-Pro at every position. But this business of Thompson or McCarthy not caring about stopping the run, or not caring about having a tough team - that's pretty ridiculous.

But back to my original point. I'm not quite sure why some fan getting angrier than I do about the Packers not winning more Super Bowls somehow means I am a lesser fan.

[Pugger]

What's interesting to me is that those people like Wist - the ones who that claim they want or expect more out of their teams than other (implicitly lesser) fans - seem to think that accrues them more man-points, or makes them better fans somehow. It's strange, because their supposed larger (and somehow therefore better) desire has no impact on what Ted Thompson does, or Mike McCarthy, or anyone. I'm not quite sure what the leg-up is on us fans who want the Packers to win but recognize that success is exceedingly difficult to attain in the NFL.

Sometimes I agree with Wist on particular players, but I am really turned off by those tirades in which Ted Thompson, and anyone who admires his work, is addressed as "liking" soft players, or not caring about stopping the run, or whatever it is. Sure, their are trade-offs in the NFL. The resources are limited. You can't have an All-Pro at every position. But this business of Thompson or McCarthy not caring about stopping the run, or not caring about having a tough team - that's pretty ridiculous.

But back to my original point. I'm not quite sure why some fan getting angrier than I do about the Packers not winning more Super Bowls somehow means I am a lesser fan.

There is a new poster on packersnews.net who espouses this kind of thinking too. It is rather silly and baseless, frankly. We ALL care and want the team to succeed. But we realize even if you assemble the best team in the league a lot of other factors play into things not going your way and it isn't anybody's fault. Call it fate or luck but usually the healthiest team playing well at the end of the year more often than not wins it all. I doubt anyone would say the Giants were the better team when they beat NE and ruined their perfect season.

[George Cumby]

Unlike the rest of you weak-kneed pussies, I am a real Man and a real Packer Fan and I willingly and readily admit that I wish for the Packers to fail in spectacular fashion. EVERY SEASON. Because I don't care quite as much as Wist. Only Wist truly cares, the rest of us schlumps are a bunch of toadies and pretenders worshipping at the feet of the gilt feet of a false idol.

Wist is The One. When will you heathenistic simpletons understand that? Wist is the lone voice in the wilderness, he is the Muad'Dib to our Choam-Harkonnen conspiracy. Only Wist truly Believes. Bow down before the Messiah, maggots.

Or something like that.

[mraynrand]

^^^ Well someone drank too much sandworm bile tonight. How was the spice orgy, George?

[pbmax]

Unlike the rest of you weak-kneed pussies, I am a real Man and a real Packer Fan and I willingly and readily admit that I wish for the Packers to fail in spectacular fashion. EVERY SEASON. Because I don't care quite as much as Wist. Only Wist truly cares, the rest of us schlumps are a bunch of toadies and pretenders worshipping at the feet of the gilt feet of a false idol.

Wist is The One. When will you heathenistic simpletons understand that? Wist is the lone voice in the wilderness, he is the Muad'Dib to our Choam-Harkonnen conspiracy. Only Wist truly Believes. Bow down before the Messiah, maggots.

Or something like that.

You forgot "toady, cowed and bent lickspittle acolytes of Ted".

[George Cumby]

^^^ Well someone drank too much sandworm bile tonight. How was the spice orgy, George?

Sandy. Real sandy. I gotta shakeout my fruit of the looms.......

[George Cumby]

You forgot "toady, cowed and bent lickspittle acolytes of Ted".

"Lickspittle". How could I omit that one? I am ashamed.