cowboys broncos collusion?

[gbgary]

NFLPA concerned about Cowboys, Broncos colluding on WR contracts (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/10/nflpa-concerned-about-cowboys-broncos-colluding-on-wr-contracts/)


Cowboys receiver Dez Bryant and Broncos receiver Demaryius Thomas are both free agents, but neither is really “free” because of the franchise tag. If one player signs a long-term contract, it could set the market and help the other in negotiations. And so it could be beneficial to both the Cowboys and the Broncos to make sure that neither team gives its franchise receiver a big-time deal.

please let this be true! :grin:

[smuggler]

Nah it's not likely to be true

[MadScientist]

Nah it's not likely to be true

Because Dallas and Denver would never bend cap rules...

[Guiness]

Because Dallas and Denver would never bend cap rules...

Agreed, this can't be right, Washington wasn't consulted! (or colluded with...)

[smuggler]

I don't think it makes too much sense for one of the teams to risk their relationship with their (valuable) player to help out some other team that happens to be in a similar situation. Granted, people do stupid shit, but I don't think the marginal payout is worth the risk.

[Guiness]

I'm not sure how marginal it is, these guys are both looking for a triple crown in contract terms - big $$$, long term and a lot of guarantees. Look at the problems created by Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald's contracts. Andre Johnson's total cap hit this year is $17M - 10M for Indi, $7M in dead money for Houston.

Of course, you also have to realize NFL owners are a different, incredibly egotistical breed, and they want to win at everything, including negotiations with their most valuable assets.

[Patler]

I'm not sure how marginal it is, these guys are both looking for a triple crown in contract terms - big $$$, long term and a lot of guarantees. Look at the problems created by Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald's contracts. Andre Johnson's total cap hit this year is $17M - 10M for Indi, $7M in dead money for Houston.

That is exactly why it makes sense that both have been franchised. It was the logical approach for both teams. Collusion wasn't needed fro them to come to the same conclusion.

The NFLPA sings this tune every time two of the top players at the same position are FAs at the same time. We have heard it before.

[smuggler]

I guess we'll see if anything comes of the rumor. I won't shed any tears for Dallas or Denver.

[King Friday]

Dallas and Denver have more in common besides their franchised WRs...

Aging QBs that won't be around much longer.

Neither team wants to pay huge money to a receiver on a long term deal when both teams are going to be rebuilding within 2-3 years.

[pbmax]

Franchise tag isn't the issue, Calvin Johnson's contract is. Johnson is one of the last bonus baby rookie deals and his second contract reflected that.

This is an argument about the market value and whether or not Calvin represents it.

[Patler]

Franchise tag isn't the issue, Calvin Johnson's contract is. Johnson is one of the last bonus baby rookie deals and his second contract reflected that.

This is an argument about the market value and whether or not Calvin represents it.

Yes and no. The franchise tag is an issue because both teams can make their player play for significantly less than the players think they are entitled, which is because of Calvin Johnson's contract. Johnson's contract is the reason tagging made sense for both players. No team wants WR salaries to go there yet. Heck, if a WR is worth that, what will players who play important positions want? :)

[pbmax]

Yes and no. The franchise tag is an issue because both teams can make their player play for significantly less than the players think they are entitled, which is because of Calvin Johnson's contract. Johnson's contract is the reason tagging made sense for both players. No team wants WR salaries to go there yet. Heck, if a WR is worth that, what will players who play important positions want? :)

In your construct, the only part that doesn't apply to all positions and all top FAs is Calvin Johnson's contract. I hold he is the independent variable here. All positions are subject to the tags. All tags make less than the average value of the top contract.

But Calvin Johnson's deal is stratospheric compared to other WR deals currently.

[pbmax]

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, Jones explained to Bryant that the Calvin Johnson contract, which represents the current peak of the receiver market, has no relevance to other receivers because it was driven by the pre-rookie wage scale deal that Johnson signed when he was drafted by the Lions in 2007. And then Jones told Dez, per the source, that Jones talked to Broncos G.M. John Elway about the situation.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/13/source-collusion-evidence-comes-from-conversation-between-dez-bryant-and-stephen-jones/

If true, certainly if there exists proof or a corroborating witness besides Dez Bryant, then Stephen Jones deserves the Least Valuable Executive award.

[Patler]

In your construct, the only part that doesn't apply to all positions and all top FAs is Calvin Johnson's contract. I hold he is the independent variable here. All positions are subject to the tags. All tags make less than the average value of the top contract.

But Calvin Johnson's deal is stratospheric compared to other WR deals currently.

Exactly. I'm not disputing that. As I have said several times, Johnson's deal is the reason it makes total sense for both teams to have used the tag instead of meeting the players' lofty expectations. The article implied that because neither has received the type of offer they expected, and since both have been tagged instead, it implies there must be collusion. My point is that neither use of the tag, nor failure of both teams to make offers that approach Johnson's is evidence of collusion.

We have heard the collusion accusation time and time again when two top players at the same position have negotiations stall. The argument might hold water if a salary structure that makes sense exists at the position. That is not the situation at WR right now, so without more, the collusion argument is hollow.

Now, if the idiot Jones really did say that they talked to Elway, collusion is almost admitted. They deserve everything they get from the league in the way of punishment. After all, the players agents would never think of discussing negotiations among themselves. :roll: :roll:

[pbmax]

Huh, both guys get matching 5 year, $70 million dollar deals on the top end. Demarius also has no offsets for his guarantees, which are announced as totaling $35 mil in the first two years. Makes sense as the tag for two years (assuming one year of health) would have earned them between $26 and $30 mil guaranteed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/15/report-five-years-70-million-for-demaryius-thomas-too/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/15/dez-bryant-gets-five-years-70-million-from-cowboys/


Also, and as first reported by Mike Klis of 9News in Denver, Thomas rejected a seven-year, $100 million offer, which would have tied Thomas up for another two years with another $30 million in non-guaranteed money.