Brady 4 Game Suspension Upheld

[sharpe1027]

If Brady was truly innocent (and once he decided to provide phone records in the first place) he had every incentive to make sure that the NFL had all of his phone records. Especially the ones around the relevant time period.

He did not do this. He actually went out of his way to provide partial evidence and obstruct the NFL's investigation. What logical conclusion does this suggest?

[mraynrand]

If Brady was truly innocent (and once he decided to provide phone records in the first place) he had every incentive to make sure that the NFL had all of his phone records. Especially the ones around the relevant time period.

He did not do this. He actually went out of his way to provide partial evidence and obstruct the NFL's investigation. What logical conclusion does this suggest?

It all depends on your political affiliation - are you a Jets fan or a Patriots fan? :)

[sharpe1027]

It all depends on your political affiliation - are you a Jets fan or a Patriots fan? :)

Honestly, I most certainly have an unconscious bias against the Pats. Still, I believe that it is not as open and shut as PB has stated.

[pbmax]

He has presented the NFL with his email collection. Text messages were traced to receiving phone numbers and Brady supplied the identities (or was prepared to). 28 individuals among those receiving text messages were associated with football.

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784


As for the emails Wells originally requested, Brady had more luck in finding these. On June 3 his forensic examiner catalogued all 5,317 emails Brady sent or received between Sept. 1, 2014 and March 1, 2015. These emails were searched for the following terms:

k-ball, kball, gage, air-pump, airpump, needle, pin, PSI, pounds per square inch, 12.5, bladder, McNally, Bird, 1 pound, 1 lb, one pound, one lb, 2 pound, 2 lb, two pound, two lb, gaug* [the * means that all variations of “gaug” were included, such as gauge, gauging, gauged etc.], pump*, inflat*, deflat*, (game OR kick*) ball ~2 [this means Brady’s emails were searched to see whether the words “game” or “kick*” were found within two words of “ball”], (prep* OR rub*) AND (ball OR football) ~10, (investigat* OR meet* OR discuss* OR question) AND (championship OR Jan* 18 OR 1/18), investigat* AND (ball OR football OR Ind* OR Colts) ~10, (equilib* OR atmosphere* OR climat* OR environment* OR test* OR experiment) AND (ball OR football) ~10
All the emails that came up in those searches were submitted as evidence in the ongoing suit, and we are still working our way through all of them (you can get a taste here). But from the forensic examiner’s report it seems like none of them were particularly relevant. For instance, the word bladder was found twice, both times referring to the human body, and the only time “one pound” was used was when discussing eating protein. A bunch of finance emails are included, as Brady discussed the economic concepts of deflation or inflation with others.

The phone messages records recovered matched the one's reported by the Wells Report except for 3 additional messages not highlighted.


Of course, Wells wasn’t solely looking for Brady’s communication with Jastremski and McNally, but also whether he had used a variety of deflation-related terms with anybody else. And as pointed out in the NFL’s questioning of Brady, there are also three texts exchanged with Jastremski on February 7 that do not appear in the Wells Report:

Q. Let’s look back at NFL Exhibit 96, the letter from Mr. Yee to Commissioner Goodell. And I’m directing your attention to page 3 of the letter in the middle of the page. After Number 2, Jastremski, toward the end of that paragraph, it says, “The phone bills also show three text message exchanges on February 7, 2015 between 8:21 p.m. and 8:33 p.m. These occurred after the Super Bowl and were not mentioned or referenced in the Wells report.”

Elsewhere, it was reported by his agent that the 28 people contacted by text beyond the three known Patriots employees were known to them and they submitted those records to the League prior to or during the appeal. Goodell responded that "is simply not practical".

[pbmax]

If Brady was truly innocent (and once he decided to provide phone records in the first place) he had every incentive to make sure that the NFL had all of his phone records. Especially the ones around the relevant time period.

He did not do this. He actually went out of his way to provide partial evidence and obstruct the NFL's investigation. What logical conclusion does this suggest?

Because this case has legal ramifications for other parties. No one else had turned over phone data before and it would set a precedent. The prior punishment for this, in the only known case, was Favre's phone and it was $25,000 fine and embarrassment served.

[sharpe1027]

That Brady tried to correct for it after-the-fact, says more about his recognition of the possible consequences (mitigation attempt) than it does about the original act.

[pbmax]

That Brady tried to correct for it after-the-fact, says more about his recognition of the possible consequences (mitigation attempt) than it does about the original act.

Yes and in the complicated world of CBA and Federal Law, that is what you get when you change the rules of the game midstream with no notice. This is Roger reaping what he has sowed by acting by fiat and press release. Stradley's quote I put in here yesterday said it better, but he rules by over-reacting and then trying to cover his ass. Its entirely PR and personality driven.

We have not even gone back over the fact that the violation that Brady was judged to have committed was in a policy never given to the players. And there is no precedent for this kind of action for tampering with game equipment, not to mention failure to turn over phone records now being worth some portion of 4 games.

Tagliabue had this guy's number with the Bountygate disaster when he was appointed arbitrator. Goodell rules capriciously, reacting to the worst possible version of events rather than remaining dispassionate and investigating. He doesn't work with teams and players to stop the behavior first. He just wants to level the hammer.

Its shortsighted and has earned him 8 months of bad press.

[pbmax]

If Roger owned his own business, he would be able to run things this way. A small business owner can do a lot by sheer force of will.

But he is in charge of an 11 billion dollar industry that is intimately entangled with Congress and Federal law. He doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Think about his rhetoric of protecting the shield when he weighed in first with the Personal Conduct Policy. He has elevated working for the NFL to something closer to worship than employment. He takes the public face of his role far too seriously and spends too little time on details.

[sharpe1027]

Yes and in the complicated world of CBA and Federal Law, that is what you get when you change the rules of the game midstream with no notice. This is Roger reaping what he has sowed by acting by fiat and press release. Stradley's quote I put in here yesterday said it better, but he rules by over-reacting and then trying to cover his ass. Its entirely PR and personality driven.

We have not even gone back over the fact that the violation that Brady was judged to have committed was in a policy never given to the players. And there is no precedent for this kind of action for tampering with game equipment, not to mention failure to turn over phone records now being worth some portion of 4 games.

Tagliabue had this guy's number with the Bountygate disaster when he was appointed arbitrator. Goodell rules capriciously, reacting to the worst possible version of events rather than remaining dispassionate and investigating. He doesn't work with teams and players to stop the behavior first. He just wants to level the hammer.

Its shortsighted and has earned him 8 months of bad press.

Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, Goodell's approach is short-sighted (or just plain blind). Yes, maybe Brady will get off on a legality issue.

But, the evidence is still there to suggest that the balls were tampered with and Brady was encouraging it.

[mraynrand]

Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, Goodell's approach is short-sighted (or just plain blind). Yes, maybe Brady will get off on a legality issue.

But, the evidence is still there to suggest that the balls were tampered with and Brady was encouraging it.

This is what I think. And the history of cheating by the Patsies also weighs into it.

Being commish is different than being in a court. You are kinda judge and jury. You have to protect the integrity of the game, but you don't have to make snap judgments to do it.

The Nancy Grace comparison PB mentioned a while back is apt. And I confess, I slipped into it a bit in this case. Too much hyperventilating. It sure looks like the patsies were gaming the system, but a little caution and reflection could have helped Roger see it as a smaller issue, that a lot of teams engage in, and he could have issued a slap on the wrist 25K fine with a general promise to review the process and perhaps even allow a small leeway for QB preference.

[pbmax]

...

But, the evidence is still there to suggest that the balls were tampered with and Brady was encouraging it.

I agree that those text messages look like something that is not above board. More than likely, the Pats had tried to develop some system for "correcting" wrongly inflated balls. Remember those text messages refer to Brady being incensed about a 16 PSI beachball? The refs found some of the Pats balls lower than 12.5 and over-corrected.

And let's think about this logically. If the goal is to get the balls as low as possible, then this situation of ref correction is extraordinarily likely to happen. Rodgers described the same situation in reverse, that he would ask the equipment guys to get as close to 13.5 without going over. Because if you get out of spec, you have lost control over the eventual pressure of the ball as the refs will correct it.

This is something that competent administrators would work through. If there is something amiss, what is the corrective measure? I doubt the answer to this question in the manual is to make it 2.5 PSI above the legal limit. BTW, this is a sign of exactly how unimportant the NFL saw this issue until the Ravens and Colts came bellyaching to a former Jets official in the League office. This is why a patient and non-maximalist approach should always be preferred. Prior to the game the only people that cared about this were QBs and 3 officials that were pissed at the Patriots handing them their hat for over a decade now. Goodell, reacting like bad news is a mallet to his patellar tendon, was now chasing leaked false info. And that info was about an issue that did not affect the outcome of the game. It just pissed off three opponents.

I maintain the next likeliest scenario is that this was ALL about pre-inspection ball prep. You have to be careful to go low as you can without raising a red flag with the refs. That limits what you can do pre-game.

Third most likely, as no other ref has reported the game balls went missing before a game, is that the events of this playoff game were an anomaly. So if the Patriots text messages (from earlier in the season) are an indication of an illegal scheme, it most likely happened on the sideline, not during transport while the refs were there.

[sharpe1027]

OK, but if they did it on the sidelines or they did it in the bathroom, it is the same result and they are equally culpable. Further, even if you are correct that they were doing it on the sidelines previously, it seems like they came up with a better plan - grab the balls and do it somewhere private. It seems pretty risky to do it in full sight of fans and the other team.

Your second scenario is at odds with several of the text messages, but I admit that it is possible.

Your conjecture about Rodgers is not accurate from the quotes I read. Rodgers was fine with if they happened to go over the limit. That was what the "no fair" complaints from the Pats fans started from.

Agreed that the NFL could have done any number of things better in their handling of the situation.

[pbmax]

Rodgers admitted that if they went over (and he did say he was fine if they went just over the 13.5 line, to the next hash) they ran the risk of the Refs intervening and undoing their "hard" work.

The ball boys are always rearranging the balls, into and out of the case they are in. They have towels and are always rubbing them down. It could be done on sidelines. Riskier, however, because you could get caught on camera with this method.

Bathroom break makes sense, but after NFL and Wells investigated for 4 months, they came up with not another instance where the balls went missing before the game. And you KNOW they asked the Head Ref for each Patriot game that year. That is why the bathroom break seems like such an outlier. So rare it has to be unrelated.

[sharpe1027]

Valid point on it looking like an outlier. One thing to consider is that memory is a tricky thing, that we all tend to believe is better than it truly is. If it was not on their radar to watch for missing balls before the game, I think that it is extremely unlikely they would remember it happening weeks or months after-the-fact.

It does not have to be unrelated.

By the way, the fact that the balls are constantly being dried and rubbed down is something neither of the post-Wells reports considered. They assumed that the balls were unprotected from the rain. Is that really a valid assumption?

[pbmax]

I'd buy the under the radar thing, but the Ref (Walt Anderson) it happened to for the Colts game said it has never happened to him before. So I am thinking they would remember such an unusual circumstance.

[wpony]

I have not commented on this yet because I am so sick of this topic but here goes from someone that really does not like the pats or Brady so here goes do I think Brady did something wrong or had some one do it for him yes, do I think he destroyed his phone so they couldnt see the texts yes, I also think he is lieing to Kraft so he has him backing him up but do I think that the punishment is over the line yes I do , I think Godel is finally so fed up with the Pats breaking the rules or just right to the point of them that he has had it and trying to make a point of it and say no more will be tolerated . I am also sure he has teams agreeing with him or he probably would have backed down but there has been a good amount of teams blaming the Pats for cheating on one thing or another and have been proven right and old roger just slapped them on the wrist and now he has egg on his face for letting them get away with thing in the past do I think its fair to punish them for previous infractions no but no matter what happens he has sent all the teams a message that the cheating for all the teams is stopping now.

[NewsBruin]

Edit: I'm just frustrated that the punishment can be set for an infraction that changes when the previous infraction can't be proven in a year where punishments can be stiffened after older policies were discarded for not being tough enough.

I think that sets up a chilly world for any NFL player that the hammer can be dropped on them for any reason or no reason or different reason or angry outsiders's protests.

[pbmax]

Judge overturned the 4 game suspension.

EDIT: Word is suspension was "nullified". It could still be sent back for an lower level decision under new guidelines or the Judge could order new talks.


The Associated Press ‏@AP 9m9 minutes ago
BREAKING: Tom Brady beats NFL in 'Deflategate' court case, judge nullifies league's 4-game suspension.

[smuggler]

A victory for law, or a defeat for justice? Both?

[pbmax]

Its a procedural ruling. Failure to serve notice of changes to policies and lack of availability of discovery materials (it would not be called that in a CBA appeal) and the investigators. As frustrating as this is (personally I would prefer a debate on the PSI numbers and an investigation into the Brady text messages that they chose not to recover), this was completely avoidable.

The Judge even quotes Tagliabue about Goodell the lack of previous suspensions for being uncooperative with an investigation. The NFL can get everything it seems to want here, all it needs is to serve notice first. This is what I cannot understand about Goodell's approach.

BTW, the Judge offered no opinion on the appropriateness of a Commissioner being the final arbitrator.


The suspension was "premised upon several significant legal deficiencies," Berman wrote in his opinion, noting that an arbitrator's factual findings are generally not open to judicial challenge.

Berman's ruling does not necessarily end the dispute. The league can appeal. Neither side's top lawyer immediately responded to an email seeking comment.

The judge said Brady had no notice he could receive a four-game suspension for general awareness of ball deflation by others or participation in any scheme to deflate football and for not cooperating with an investigation.

"Brady also had no notice that his discipline would be the equivalent of the discipline imposed upon a player who used performance enhancing drugs," Berman said.

Brady was also denied equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes, and didn't have a chance to examine one of two lead investigators, the judge said.

http://pro32.ap.org/article/judge-lets-brady-play-ruling-against-nfl-deflategate

[pbmax]

Football Perspective ‏@fbgchase 30m30 minutes ago Manhattan, NY
Bob Costas is hyperventilating right now thinking about his opening night monologue

[pbmax]

Nice case for the fact that PSI measures at halftime DID show that the Pats balls were tampered with, though the strength of the finding is diminished by having only 4 Colts balls tested.

The link would help, huh? http://www.footballperspective.com/the-hidden-stat-of-deflategate/

[pbmax]

Jets and Jay Feely make an appearance.

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 41s42 seconds ago
Judge Berman cites Jets K-ball case in ruling wiping out Brady's suspension http://wp.me/p14QSB-9Qcd

Here is the entire 40 page ruling.

http://t.co/ivxxw9HwjE

[Rastak]

Not upheld anymore.

Federal judge who ESPN legal analyst said had zero chance of overturning the suspension has done just that, as I expected.


"The suspension was "premised upon several significant legal deficiencies" including the failure to notify Brady of potential penalties, Berman wrote in his opinion, noting that an arbitrator's factual findings are generally not open to judicial challenge.

"Because there was no notice of a four-game suspension in the circumstances presented here, Commissioner Goodell may be said to have 'dispensed his own brand of industrial justice,'" Berman wrote, partially citing wording from a previous case."


And that is my problem with Goodell. He completely ignores the rule of law routinely. Case after case after case. Abritration awards are rarely overturned by courts. Very rarely. This pea brain has it happen routinely.




edit: Thanks for link PB.

[Guiness]

This is essentially what I expected would happen.No judge would sign off on how this was handled.

When the league's/Goodell's procedure was held to the light of day, there was no way it stand up. Any sort of rule of law view of the whole process would find all sorts of issues. I don't remember what it was, but part of the reason for the punishment was a rule that Brady broke that was no documented in anything he had access to?

The best parallel I can draw is that Goodell acted as if the anti-trust exemption the league enjoys for TV rights also applies to its disciplinary process.

[smuggler]

Brady is a cheater and everyone knows it, but he gets to hold up a hand with a single finger extended adorned with four rings and smugface a 'fuck you' to doodletwat Goodell.Everybody wins?

[Rastak]

Brady is a cheater and everyone knows it, but he gets to hold up a hand with a single finger extended adorned with four rings and smugface a 'fuck you' to doodletwat Goodell.Everybody wins?


He and thousands of other players. Jerry Rice and stickum come to mind. Feeley and kicking balls mentioned in the ruling. Panthers last year warming up footballs by the heater which prompted a warning to both the Vikings and the Panther to cease and desist. I have to admit I'm far less outraged than you. The whole spygate thing bothered me alot more.

I can picture Brady brow beating those two morons telling them to make sure the balls come in as soft as they can then these dummies went and let the air out.

If Brady specifically said "Go let the air out" I'd still not be outraged. It's stupid as hell in the first place that teams supply the balls and pick the air pressure range. Make 'em all 13 and make both teams use the same balls and the NFL officials bring them to the games. Problem solved.

[Rastak]

This is essentially what I expected would happen.No judge would sign off on how this was handled.

When the league's/Goodell's procedure was held to the light of day, there was no way it stand up. Any sort of rule of law view of the whole process would find all sorts of issues. I don't remember what it was, but part of the reason for the punishment was a rule that Brady broke that was no documented in anything he had access to?

The best parallel I can draw is that Goodell acted as if the anti-trust exemption the league enjoys for TV rights also applies to its disciplinary process.


Judge Doty asked him if he had even read the CBA which I thought was funny.

[sharpe1027]

The NFL might appeal, even if they don't (or lose on appeal), they might come back with a fine and Brady appeals the fine.

This is likely to drag on and we all lose for having to hear more about it for the next year+. Nobody wins.

[Rastak]

The NFL might appeal, even if they don't (or lose on appeal), they might come back with a fine and Brady appeals the fine.

This is likely to drag on and we all lose for having to hear more about it for the next year+. Nobody wins.


Now that we can agree on. I wish they'd just fix their procedural problems behind the scenes and move on.

[mraynrand]

It seems the simple result going forward is that if goodell rules outside of things specifically defined in the CBA regarding player conduct, players should immediately appeal. The finding was about goodell a power not about Brady's innocence.

[smuggler]

Judge Doty asked him if he had even read the CBA which I thought was funny.

Wow... Doty's an asshole.

I think the league should just forget about this litigation and instead just halt play at the start of every Patriot offensive possession and have the ball tested in the middle of the field. They can hire the lady with the bell from the last season of GoT to stand next to Brady, stare at him, and chant 'shame' while the test goes on.

[Pugger]

It seems the simple result going forward is that if goodell rules outside of things specifically defined in the CBA regarding player conduct, players should immediately appeal. The finding was about goodell a power not about Brady's innocence.

This is what folks are forgetting today. The judge didn't rule on Brady's guilt or innocence - just on how the penalty was meted out and the conduct during the appeal.

[Rastak]

Wow... Doty's an asshole.

I think the league should just forget about this litigation and instead just halt play at the start of every Patriot offensive possession and have the ball tested in the middle of the field. They can hire the lady with the bell from the last season of GoT to stand next to Brady, stare at him, and chant 'shame' while the test goes on.


Doty is simply observant....and the court of Goodell's own choosing in New York observed the same thing. He writes his own labor laws.

As a side note,

Man, you really hate the Pats....I don't like them myself and in particular I don't like Brady mainly due to that smirk but I can't say I have the same passion of dislike....lol.

[smuggler]

He and thousands of other players.I have to admit I'm far less outraged than you.

The NFL does not enforce every rule they have on the books. Technically, it's specifically prohibited in the rules to punch a ball in player possession. The ball is also considered to be part of the player that's possessing it, so doing so would also, technically, be grounds for game disqualification. Yet that rule has not been enforced for decades. Still, if the NFL wanted, they could FINE players for having done it in last week's games.

The reason the NFL tried to lay the hammer here, laid the hammer on the Pats for Spygate, and the Saints for Bountygate, is that they sent communication to the Saints and Patriots informing them the cat was out and that they need to stop the cheating. They did not comply.

If the league had wanted to crack down on Stickem, Rice would have backed down.

As it stands, there is no justice in the NFL or in the US as a whole for that matter. There is just posturing, politics, and litigation.

As it applies to the NFL, Goodell will now need to levy harsher penalties more often to offset the fact the union will appeal literally everything that comes down. That's great for a cheat like Brady, but pretty terrible for basically anyone playing it straight.

[Pugger]

The NFL does not enforce every rule they have on the books. Technically, it's specifically prohibited in the rules to punch a ball in player possession. The ball is also considered to be part of the player that's possessing it, so doing so would also, technically, be grounds for game disqualification. Yet that rule has not been enforced for decades. Still, if the NFL wanted, they could FINE players for having done it in last week's games.

The reason the NFL tried to lay the hammer here, laid the hammer on the Pats for Spygate, and the Saints for Bountygate, is that they sent communication to the Saints and Patriots informing them the cat was out and that they need to stop the cheating. They did not comply.

If the league had wanted to crack down on Stickem, Rice would have backed down.

As it stands, there is no justice in the NFL or in the US as a whole for that matter. There is just posturing, politics, and litigation.

As it applies to the NFL, Goodell will now need to levy harsher penalties more often to offset the fact the union will appeal literally everything that comes down. That's great for a cheat like Brady, but pretty terrible for basically anyone playing it straight.

What is nuts is how poorly the league botched this entire mess from day one. All they had to do was give Brady a one game suspension and a fine and that would have been the end of it. But because Goodell wanted to make an example out of NE and Brady for pass sins they now look ridiculous and have created a nightmare for any future penalties.

[Rastak]

The NFL does not enforce every rule they have on the books. Technically, it's specifically prohibited in the rules to punch a ball in player possession. The ball is also considered to be part of the player that's possessing it, so doing so would also, technically, be grounds for game disqualification. Yet that rule has not been enforced for decades. Still, if the NFL wanted, they could FINE players for having done it in last week's games.

The reason the NFL tried to lay the hammer here, laid the hammer on the Pats for Spygate, and the Saints for Bountygate, is that they sent communication to the Saints and Patriots informing them the cat was out and that they need to stop the cheating. They did not comply.

If the league had wanted to crack down on Stickem, Rice would have backed down.

As it stands, there is no justice in the NFL or in the US as a whole for that matter. There is just posturing, politics, and litigation.

As it applies to the NFL, Goodell will now need to levy harsher penalties more often to offset the fact the union will appeal literally everything that comes down. That's great for a cheat like Brady, but pretty terrible for basically anyone playing it straight.

You do raise some good points although I'm not sure of your last point. Instead of increasingly harsh penalties I think the owners are going to voluntarily reign this guy in. The court losses are piling up and they kind of look like fools.

[red]

man, goodell just got bitched slapped

and then he appeals it, making sure it drags on for even longer

the owners HAVE to be thinking about getting rid of him. what a fucking joke that guy has become

[smuggler]

Court cost go both ways. The union spent about as much money as the league, I'd guess.

As for how much you think I dislike the Patriots, I really don't think it's pertinent. What I don't like is cheating, and they decide how much of that they do, not me.

And yes, Doty's comment was definitely rude and has no place in a court. Can you imagine how Doty would have responded to the same question? That gavel would be flying. But he gets to make the childish, unprofessional, sarcastic queries, because he's the judge. And an asshole.

[Guiness]

This is what folks are forgetting today. The judge didn't rule on Brady's guilt or innocence - just on how the penalty was meted out and the conduct during the appeal.

I don't think people are, I know I'm not. My post above was all about abuse of power, nothing to do with actual events.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Goodell is still bringing in the $ to the NFL in record amounts. So I don't think the owners are going to do squat until the trough starts having less for them to feed on as that's all they really care about anyways. If there's a drop in the revenue, then they will look to get rid of him and use his handling of the players as a contributing factor.

[Guiness]

Court cost go both ways. The union spent about as much money as the league, I'd guess. Possibly more, since they were the plaintiffs.

As for how much you think I dislike the Patriots, I really don't think it's pertinent. What I don't like is cheating, and they decide how much of that they do, not me.

And yes, Doty's comment was definitely rude and has no place in a court.

I don't think Doty's comments were of an uncommon variety at all. Have you ever been in court with a PO'd judge? They'll let you know exactly how they feel, and there is not much you can do except listen.

[smuggler]

I know they're common. Doesn't make them right.

[Rastak]

I don't think Doty's comments were of an uncommon variety at all. Have you ever been in court with a PO'd judge? They'll let you know exactly how they feel, and there is not much you can do except listen.


That sounded like any other rebuke from any other judge in any other case to me too. I'm about half way through the actual decision and judge Berman has some gems in there too.


I mean honestly, I'd have to question if the dude ever looked at the CBA. I'm beginning to think he doesn't consider it relevant in anything he does.

[sharpe1027]

This is a classic good-cop bad-cop routine from the NFL and that Pats. The Pats organization is sticking up for the players, while the big bad NFL central office doles out unfair* punishment.

*The owners would seem to be behind the punishments (at least as a group) as Goodell has kept his position so far.

Don't be too quick to kick Goodell out the door.

[smuggler]

People in power are typically assholes. Seems about right.

[Rastak]

A subtle shot but very effective........"a heralded independent investigation".....funny.

(S.D.N.Y. 2007). As co-lead investigator and senior executive with the NFL, Pash was in the
best position to testify about the NFL 's degree of involvement in, and potential shaping of, a
heralded "independent" Investigation. The issues known to Pash constituted "evidence plainly
pertinent and material to the controversy," Tempo Shain, 120 F.3d at 19 (quoting 9 U.S.C. §
35
10(a)(3)), and Commissioner Goodell's refusal to hear such evidence warrants vacatur of the
Award under9 U.S.C. § 10(a)(3).

[pbmax]

This is a classic good-cop bad-cop routine from the NFL and that Pats. The Pats organization is sticking up for the players, while the big bad NFL central office doles out unfair* punishment.

*The owners would seem to be behind the punishments (at least as a group) as Goodell has kept his position so far.

Don't be too quick to kick Goodell out the door.

Very good point. However, someone is both pushing and advising Goodell to take certain steps to accomplish what the owners want. He could have held as hard a line with other, more deliberate steps.

There is reporting that the Patriots are mad at Jeff Pash, he is being seen as the one pushing for the maximalist position here (at least by Kraft). However, its all unsourced stuff, so the Pats might just be mad he wouldn't testify in the appeal.

But if he is being the hard ass, then Pash could take the fall. Then better question then whether someone more effective takes his place because Roger doesn't get this yet.

[Guiness]

PFT is reporting that the NFL is going to appeal. And that Hardy is considering his options

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/goodell-we-disagree-with-the-decision-and-will-appeal/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/greg-hardy-considering-an-appeal-of-his-four-game-suspension/

Shades of
http://www.keypoulanmusic.com/system/images/products/650_pandorasbox-thumb.jpg

[ThunderDan]

Court cost go both ways. The union spent about as much money as the league, I'd guess.

As for how much you think I dislike the Patriots, I really don't think it's pertinent. What I don't like is cheating, and they decide how much of that they do, not me.

And yes, Doty's comment was definitely rude and has no place in a court. Can you imagine how Doty would have responded to the same question? That gavel would be flying. But he gets to make the childish, unprofessional, sarcastic queries, because he's the judge. And an asshole.

Court costs are not the same as legal fees.

I just got finished with a lengthy civil suit and we won. We were award $45,000 in court costs (basically to pay for the court reporter during months of depositions). The legal fees were well over $500,000.

Second person in the case waited for the verdict. Then he sued. Insurance company settled out of court for less than $500,000 and felt they came out ahead. We did nothing wrong and were completely vindicated in the first trial.

[Bossman641]

Man I'm tired of hearing of this shit. I admit I haven't followed the case as I frankly don't care anymore at this point. Is Brady basically getting off on a Ryan Braun "chain of command" technicality?

Personally I think Brady was 100% involved with the balls being deflated and the only reason the NFL came down hard on the Pats was because they had already warned them about it. Now we have to listen to the asshole NE fans gloat. UGH.

[esoxx]

If the NFL had just followed my advice following Spygate incident, none of this resulting nonsense would have occurred.

Dispersal draft of the Patriots.

[sharpe1027]

Man I'm tired of hearing of this shit. I admit I haven't followed the case as I frankly don't care anymore at this point. Is Brady basically getting off on a Ryan Braun "chain of command" technicality?

Personally I think Brady was 100% involved with the balls being deflated and the only reason the NFL came down hard on the Pats was because they had already warned them about it. Now we have to listen to the asshole NE fans gloat. UGH.

Pretty much. The judge did not set aside any of the fact findings of the arbitrator. So the decision is not about whether or not Brady was actually involved with bribing people to deflate balls.

[sharpe1027]

If the NFL had just followed my advice following Spygate incident, none of this resulting nonsense would have occurred.

Dispersal draft of the Patriots.

Just force them all to be cut, and let them go through the waiver wire process.

[Pugger]

man, goodell just got bitched slapped

and then he appeals it, making sure it drags on for even longer

the owners HAVE to be thinking about getting rid of him. what a fucking joke that guy has become

As long as the money is coming in and the game is as popular as ever Goodell isn't going anywhere.

[Pugger]

I don't think people are, I know I'm not. My post above was all about abuse of power, nothing to do with actual events.

Some Patriot fans are crowing loudly that this ruling as exonerated their QB.

[Pugger]

Man I'm tired of hearing of this shit. I admit I haven't followed the case as I frankly don't care anymore at this point. Is Brady basically getting off on a Ryan Braun "chain of command" technicality?

Personally I think Brady was 100% involved with the balls being deflated and the only reason the NFL came down hard on the Pats was because they had already warned them about it. Now we have to listen to the asshole NE fans gloat. UGH.

Brady is getting off because the league botched this soap opera from day one.

[red]

Brady is getting off because the league botched this soap opera from day one.

exactly

he did it, but due to goodells extreme incompetence, he's gonna get off scot free

[mraynrand]

Some Patriot fans are crowing loudly that this ruling as exonerated their QB.

the ruling changes nothing, certainly not what they believe. Plus, as many have mentioned, Brady's play improved in the second half, so even if he was cheating, he can't even do that right.

Sir, you're not even doing it right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMjqi8XPyls&t=0m41s

[pbmax]

If the NFL had just followed my advice following Spygate incident, none of this resulting nonsense would have occurred.

Dispersal draft of the Patriots.

There is something to this. Festering anger over how the Patriots behave like a NASCAR crew chief in search of 2 additional horsepower is part of what drove this process.

If they had a plan to deal with these types of incidents that did not involve backing themselves into corners, they might have tamed Belichick long before this.

But I am not sure the football inflation is worth the battle. If those fumble statistics had held up, then we are talking about a season long advantage (at home at least). But since those numbers have been largely debunked, I am not sure this was the hill to die on.

[pbmax]

Some Patriot fans are crowing loudly that this ruling as exonerated their QB.

They are more wrong than Wells ever was.

[pbmax]

So changes in the League office have been underway for a while now according to Jason LaCanfora.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25289125/roger-goodell-isnt-going-anywhere-but-a-changing-of-guard-underway

But he disagrees with red, Roger isn't going anywhere. They are changing his cabinet. And that is probably a good thing. Troy Vincent (Football Operations), hero to Badger fans, did not cover himself with glory over how he handled the Colts/Pats game after the alert email from Grigson. His measures were partial (he was probably not aware how personally Mike Kensil was taking it) at best and because they notified NO ONE about the concern, he made it look like a trap.

Jeff Pash, General Counsel/Exec Vice President) is disliked by Kraft and has not covered himself in glory. By interposing himself in the Wells investigation and then having to decline to testify, he helped put a nail in the coffin of the Court case.

Adolpho Birch should be riding high after the 2012 CBA win, but he is apparently on the outs due to his tone deaf approach to Rice's case and continuing issues with the Union.


One can't help but wonder if some of the old guard, like Ray Anderson, senior advisor Joe Browne and former football operations executive Ron Hill were in the roles they filled for so long if things would have gone this sideways.

[esoxx]

There is something to this. Festering anger over how the Patriots behave like a NASCAR crew chief in search of 2 additional horsepower is part of what drove this process.

If they had a plan to deal with these types of incidents that did not involve backing themselves into corners, they might have tamed Belichick long before this.

But I am not sure the football inflation is worth the battle. If those fumble statistics had held up, then we are talking about a season long advantage (at home at least). But since those numbers have been largely debunked, I am not sure this was the hill to die on.

Ya, there's seems to be a strong undercurrent of resentment in league to these antics. Remember mic picked up Wolf at recent HOF gathering lauding Goodell directly for "handling that Patriot thing" or something to that effect.

I don't think many will shed a tear when the Belichek & Brady reign of terror comes to an end.

[Rastak]

Ya, there's seems to be a strong undercurrent of resentment in league to these antics. Remember mic picked up Wolf at recent HOF gathering lauding Goodell directly for "handling that Patriot thing" or something to that effect.

I don't think many will shed a tear when the Belichek & Brady reign of terror comes to an end.


Dude, that was funny as hell. He leaned over and said "Great job on the patriot thing". I personally took at as a backhanded insult.

[esoxx]

Dude, that was funny as hell. He leaned over and said "Great job on the patriot thing". I personally took at as a backhanded insult.

He would have to have some major stones to rip on the commisioner of the game as he's handed the gold jacket. Although Wolf always had a biting personality so I could see it.

But pretty much the battle lines are drawn here.

Players back Brady.

Front office folk back "The Shield."

[Rastak]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/falcons-owner-says-it-might-be-time-to-look-at-commissioners-power/


That's two owners now questioning Adolph Goodell.

[pbmax]

Are Federal Judges bullies?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/judge-bermans-ruling-may-contain-a-warning-for-the-nfl/


Judge Richard M. Berman surely knows that this happens, which means there’s a chance he included a specific message for the league’s lawyers at the very end of Thursday’s ruling in the Tom Brady case.

And the message may have been, “Appeal this decision at your own peril.”

Details in article. Berman mentions three things he did not rule on that could haunt the NFL more than losing this appeal.

[Rastak]

Are Federal Judges bullies?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/judge-bermans-ruling-may-contain-a-warning-for-the-nfl/



Details in article. Berman mentions three things he did not rule on that could haunt the NFL more than losing this appeal.


Doty did the same thing on the Peterson case. He essentially said you fucked up on points 1-3 and you lose, I am not ruling on points 4 or 5 as it's moot.

I never thought about an appeal being sent back down and the judge simply saying, ok 1-3 seem to be ok by the appeals court but 4 & 5 are illegal too.

[pbmax]

I just don't understand how a League that has been dealing with Collective Bargaining for, what, 50 years, fails this utterly.

Jason La Canfora ✔@JasonLaCanfora
The fact the players not given copy of the game day operations manual - which outlines rules for inflation and penalties, also a key fact

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball
NFL really only has themselves to blame as judge was only reviewing process with heavy deference to arbitrator. NFL's "process" is broken.

Translation: If they had a legit process, they could have had the decision they wanted. If they had followed precedent, they then could have amended rules to keep this from happening. Both better options than striking out.

[Rastak]

I just don't understand how a League that has been dealing with Collective Bargaining for, what, 50 years, fails this utterly.

Jason La Canfora ✔@JasonLaCanfora
The fact the players not given copy of the game day operations manual - which outlines rules for inflation and penalties, also a key fact

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball
NFL really only has themselves to blame as judge was only reviewing process with heavy deference to arbitrator. NFL's "process" is broken.

Translation: If they had a legit process, they could have had the decision they wanted. If they had followed precedent, they then could have amended rules to keep this from happening. Both better options than striking out.


That's the whole thing to get out of this. Goodell shoots from the hip there are no rules in his mind. I do what I want he seems to think.

Get a process that makes sense. Follow the "law of the shop" as legally required and for god sakes don't have the NFL head lawyers EDITING THE INDEPENDENT FINDINGS.

I mean, is this the ultimate in balls.

They make a big deal about ball's air pressure yet have never had any controls in place. They honestly come off as a bunch of amateur morons in a billion dollar industry.

[smuggler]

Judge: All labor is deceitful and corrupt. Your rules don't take that into account properly. Zaaap!!

[Pugger]

The league let the inmates run the asylum when it came to game balls by allowing teams to prepare them instead of the league. The irony in all of this is Brady, along with Manning and others, petitioned the league to change the rules!

[pbmax]

The league let the inmates run the asylum when it came to game balls by allowing teams to prepare them instead of the league. The irony in all of this is Brady, along with Manning and others, petitioned the league to change the rules!

That is one thing that LaCanfora's article about changes in the League Office doesn't cover. He openly wonders if the old guard would have botched this so badly.

But Ray Anderson, the Operations guy before Troy Vincent, was the person who put rules into place for QBs to prep the balls.

[Guiness]

That's the whole thing to get out of this. Goodell shoots from the hip there are no rules in his mind. I do what I want he seems to think.

Get a process that makes sense. Follow the "law of the shop" as legally required and for god sakes don't have the NFL head lawyers EDITING THE INDEPENDENT FINDINGS.

I mean, is this the ultimate in balls.

They make a big deal about ball's air pressure yet have never had any controls in place. They honestly come off as a bunch of amateur morons in a billion dollar industry.

Your thinking is exactly in line with mine. It's the old 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and the NFL with its myriad of exemptions has been allowed to run around doing whatever the hell they want for a long, long time.

And the guys who own the teams are largely a bunch of egomaniacal cowboys, which is all kinds of crazy. When you step back and look at it, it's almost crazy it works at all.

Their behavior here is similar to how they've acted in other, seemingly unrelated matters, like the whole concussion issue.

btw I missed the 'editing the independent findings' thing. I assume they doctored the Wells report? More proof of the above.

[Cheesehead Craig]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/s526x395/11938061_987840171262671_3575267642195028837_n.jpg ?oh=a1e6c65e913fcfd8eeafafbb1b14f5a7&oe=567C9B49

[Cheesehead Craig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lVpE0d4Ayo

[pbmax]

Hammer falling on the Ginger Hammer.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/04/report-owners-to-discuss-changing-goodells-role-in-disciplinary-process/


According to Mark Maske of the Washington Post, owners plan to discuss Commissioner Roger Goodell’s role in the disciplinary process.

“There will certainly be discussion about that,” an owner told Maske, on the condition of anonymity. The owner added that he’s “not sure where it will lead.”

3 owners have spoken up in favor of a change in role, rather than just changing the execs under him. Kraft the Younger, York and Blank. But that is not exactly murderer's row from the Owners. You take as given the Kraft's are pissed, but York is young and not sure how much sway Blank has.

[Rastak]

Your thinking is exactly in line with mine. It's the old 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' and the NFL with its myriad of exemptions has been allowed to run around doing whatever the hell they want for a long, long time.

And the guys who own the teams are largely a bunch of egomaniacal cowboys, which is all kinds of crazy. When you step back and look at it, it's almost crazy it works at all.

Their behavior here is similar to how they've acted in other, seemingly unrelated matters, like the whole concussion issue.

btw I missed the 'editing the independent findings' thing. I assume they doctored the Wells report? More proof of the above.


Jeffrey Pash, the head lawyer guy for the NFL took the Wells report and made some "edits" which was testified to in court. When Wells was asked what Pash had "edited" he said he wasn't sure but felt the crux of the report was correct and it was just a lawyer "wordsmithing"

Now you gotta have some seeds to try and pull that off. Another lawyer who was working on the "independent report" ended up sitting at the table across from the NFLPA during the appeal, on the payroll of the NFL. I mean, you can't dream this shit up.

[Guiness]

Another good read

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/05/kessler-the-nfl-doesnt-want-to-comply-with-the-cba/

[pbmax]

Is Goodell, not his subordinates, the problem?

WaPo: Sally Jenkins, https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflategate-exposed-roger-goodell-as-unfit-to-serve-his-office/2015/09/03/6b1a0688-5267-11e5-8c19-0b6825aa4a3a_story.html?tid=pm_sports_pop_b


The Brady case is really about one man’s immoderate need to horsewhip others. Taken with other anecdotes of Goodell over the years, a picture emerges of a stubborn desire to break those who oppose or question him, to bend them to his will when it comes to his personal authority. In Kent Babb’s excellent profile of Goodell, a player involved in the 2011 collective bargaining agreement remembered how Goodell would flush red with fury and stalk out of the room when his proposals were rejected. Another excellent profile by ESPN’s Don Van Natta a few years ago contained a similar story. An NFL assistant coach was stopped for suspicion of driving under the influence. The offense was reduced to reckless driving, and his lawyer pled for mercy from Goodell in a disciplinary hearing, telling Goodell that the coach had a previously unblemished record.

Sally is not my favorite columnist and sometimes she heads to places not supported by the evidence*. However, Kent Baab and Van Natta (whose article on the Asst Coach I cannot find) are very good. So if Roger is a red-faced maximalist and not simply a stooge, he might be the source of the change that Kessler (above in Guiness' post) sees in the League in 2012.

Here is Baab's article on Goodell that contains the CBA negotiations story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/how-roger-goodell-became-the-most-powerful-man-in-american-sports/2015/09/02/3eb69baa-50d8-11e5-9812-92d5948a40f8_story.html plus this:


“Good is not good enough,” a former league office colleague said of the kind of outcome Goodell pursues. “It’s got to be perfect.”

[pbmax]

Stradley:


The way the NFL deals with addiction issues, domestic violence, equipment violations, whatever is like it is a personal affront to Roger Goodell. It's not about him. People are imperfect human beings with their own life histories and capacity to deal with things. Seems like so many of the things are recklessly hammered in an entire process that has little regard to the collateral impact to the players, staff, families, crime victims.

Whole thing, and it is long, worth a read.
http://www.stradleylaw.com/legal-implications-judge-berman-ruling/

[pbmax]

Collateral damage in Goodell/Wells investigations:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/09/04/fired-dolphins-trainer-claims-ted-wells-acted-improperly-during-richie-incognito-investigation/

Dinged by Wells for not cooperating (investigators would not produce HIPPA docs that would allow release of medical info) and later fired for role in Bullygate.

[pbmax]

And again from Baab's story, my favorite hobby horse:


The league office under Goodell seems to favor an approach taken from a political campaign playbook: taking the temperature of ideas through media leaks, extensive polling and third-party data gathering. Crises often become endurance tests waged in the public sphere.

[MadtownPacker]

I shocked that so many honkies are shocked that another honkie got away with something. :lol:

[smuggler]

You read the WaPost, pb?

[pbmax]

You read the WaPost, pb?

Wonkblog yes. News/sports, occasionally, mostly when a link takes me there from elsewhere as it did with the Jenkins piece.

[pbmax]

I shocked that so many honkies are shocked that another honkie got away with something. :lol:

Not as shocked as the honkies who let him get away.

[Rastak]

Stradley:



Whole thing, and it is long, worth a read.
http://www.stradleylaw.com/legal-implications-judge-berman-ruling/


Thanks PB.

[NewsBruin]

Wonkblog yes. News/sports, occasionally, mostly when a link takes me there from elsewhere as it did with the Jenkins piece.

No shame, PB. A WaPo online subscription was my one big Christmas present this year (I'm too cheap to ask for NYT), and I've gotten more use from it than anything else in the last 5 years.

[smuggler]

I find myself disagreeing with some of Ms. Stradley's conclusions. I see different patterns than most people, though, which isn't always useful.

[Bossman641]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

ESPN with a rather lengthy investigation back into Spygate. I dunno why this is just now coming out, feels like ESPN is attempting to cover up and spin for the NFL. Still, the allegations from 2002-2007 are interesting and prove just how far the Patriots went to cheat.

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13607502/roger-goodell-open-changing-role-nfl-player-discipline-discusses-deflategate-ruling

Goodell is "open to changing my role (in player discipline)," he said. "It's become extremely time-consuming, and I have to be focused on other issues. I've discussed this with owners."

It's not quite as honest as "I suck at this and am tired of being raked over the coals due to my incompetence", but it's a start.

[pbmax]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

ESPN with a rather lengthy investigation back into Spygate. I dunno why this is just now coming out, feels like ESPN is attempting to cover up and spin for the NFL. Still, the allegations from 2002-2007 are interesting and prove just how far the Patriots went to cheat.

Just reading it now. The scope hasn't changed, but the details are much better in this version of the story. Clearly, the anti-Patriots contingent, bolstered by Brady escaping a suspension, have decided to speak. And it appears the Patriots aren't exactly holding back either. Goodell is caught in the crossfire.

One detail I did not remember, and might be new, is the scouting done at the Rams Super Bowl walk through before the Rams/Pats game. Originally, the Boston Herald reported, wrongly as it turned out, that the Pats videotaped it. However in this version, Matt Walsh says he and two other Pats employees were present while setting up video equipment for the game while the Rams did their walkthrough.

They witnessed the Rams putting Marshall Faulk back on KO return and the Rams red zone package. Walsh says he communicated these things to Brian Daboll an assistant coach, who asked him to diagram what he saw.

The Pats kicked into a corner when Faulk went back for a KO in the 2nd quarter. And when the Rams ran one new red zone play, 3 Patriots were around Faulk.

[pbmax]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13607502/roger-goodell-open-changing-role-nfl-player-discipline-discusses-deflategate-ruling

Goodell is "open to changing my role (in player discipline)," he said. "It's become extremely time-consuming, and I have to be focused on other issues. I've discussed this with owners."

It's not quite as honest as "I suck at this and am tired of being raked over the coals due to my incompetence", but it's a start.

If he had a clue, this would have been the approach all along. Whoever put it in his head that HE had to have all the responsibility should be duct taped to a goal post.

[pbmax]

Back to Deflategate, same article as Bossman's attractive avatar points to, a reminder about the specific complaint forwarded to the League Office about deflated footballs.


"It is well known around the league that after the Patriots game balls are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage, the ball boys for the Patriots will let out some air with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better."

Even the original complaint said this happened after the balls were delivered to the field under the auspices of the refs. So what was the explanation offered by the dude in the bathroom with 12 footballs? It seems highly unlikely it had happened before, because the refs would notice. But what was he doing in there?

[mraynrand]

But what was he doing in there?

You sick sonofabitch!

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120429190456/villains/images/4/49/4413-25373.gif

[pbmax]

You sick sonofabitch!

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120429190456/villains/images/4/49/4413-25373.gif

Its troubling, but tough questions must be asked!

Actually, after that ESPN article, I suspect they do know and are just not disclosing it to avoid further embarrassment.

[pbmax]

From Bossman's article, the creation of the Integrity go the Game Policy:


GOODELL MOVED ON immediately -- the same day as Specter's floor statement, actually -- introducing a mandatory "Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules" to be signed by owners, team presidents, general managers and head coaches after each season, swearing they had "complied with all League competitive policies." The first thick paragraph detailing prohibited acts reads like a litany of Spygate-era acts and accusations, including "unauthorized videotaping on game day or of practices, meetings or other organized team activities" and the barring of "unauthorized entry into locker rooms, coaches' booths, meeting rooms or other private areas." At the same time, the league also relaxed its investigative standard of proof to the "preponderance of the evidence," making findings of guilt easier, and required the signees to cooperate with NFL investigations.

Never given to players. Poor foresight.

[sharpe1027]

From Bossman's article, the creation of the Integrity go the Game Policy:

Never given to players. Poor foresight.

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. Even so, they should have reviewed the issue closer prior to deciding and issuing Brady's punishment. Had they done so, they probably would have framed the basis for their decision differently and had better support for punishing Brady.

[pbmax]

Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. Even so, they should have reviewed the issue closer prior to deciding and issuing Brady's punishment. Had they done so, they probably would have framed the basis for their decision differently and had better support for punishing Brady.

That's what kills me. Its a process issue. In some order, you knew the QBs had access to the Game Balls and could adjust the inflation AND you knew you had just written up a pretty draconian policy over game integrity and management. Someone should have the job of connecting those dots. And if they didn't, just using the Policy as the blanket cover for the appeal is a stupid ploy by the lawyers. Its so dumb, I want to imaging that Goodell and Pash came up with it on their own without help.

But more realistically, if inflation had ever troubled anyone prior to this it would have been dealt with. That ESPN article shows what role the Patriots reputation played in this formerly obscure and probably immaterial subject becoming the herald of the apocalypse.

[pbmax]

Never underestimate what the power of prior bias does to one's ability to think clearly:


"Roger did the right thing -- at last," one owner said after Goodell upheld Brady's punishment. "He looks tough -- and that's good."

"Pleased," said another longtime owner.

"About time," an executive close to another owner said. "Overdue."

"The world has never seen anyone as good as Roger Goodell as a political maneuverer. If he were in Congress, he'd be majority [leader]," one owner says.

Actual owner quotes after the appeal by Brady was upheld.

[Bossman641]

Sports Illustrated piling on as well. Seems like there are a lot of pissed off personnel around the league who are no longer concerned with protecting the reputation of the Patriots.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady?xid=si_social

[esoxx]

Dispersal draft!!!
I will keep pounding that table until it comes to fruition!

[pbmax]

EDIT: Bossman bet me to it.

But that SI article has a little more detail about the Packers catching the Pats recording the defensive signals of Bob Sanders and Co. in 2006.

[mraynrand]

Never underestimate what the power of prior bias does to one's ability to think clearly:



Actually owner quotes after the appeal by Brady was upheld.


Maybe they are thinking clearly, and simply distrust the Patsies.

[pbmax]

Maybe they are thinking clearly, and simply distrust the Patsies.

Let's go to replay review with RW Emerson and Omar from The Wire:

“Never strike a king unless you are sure you shall kill him.”

Seriously though, I agree with the sentiment. But that should enforce the idea that you want a bulletproof investigation and sanction. I think Roger promised more than his lieutenants could deliver.

[sharpe1027]

Never underestimate what the power of prior bias does to one's ability to think clearly:

Actual owner quotes after the appeal by Brady was upheld.

Assuming the prior bias is without basis and irrational?

[pbmax]

Assuming the prior bias is without basis and irrational?

It actually doesn't matter if the previous assumptions or experience was correct or helpful. Predisposes someone (anyone, not just Deflategate or football or owners) to believe that new evidence or facts support previous experience without a thorough examination.

[pbmax]

Patriots Statement on media reports today:

Ben Volin @BenVolin
Here is the statement the #Patriots issued in response to today's ESPN report. Strong stuff

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COYpEkzWIAA_D1f.png:large

We now know why SportsCenter ran that late night apology to the Patriots. Through the team's cooperation with ESPN, they knew this story was coming down the pike and they extracted an apology for past sins in exchange for cooperation.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/espn-apologizes-new-england-patriots-deflategate-spygate

This statement also answers nothing about today's articles.

[mraynrand]

Let's go to replay review with RW Emerson and Omar from The Wire:

“Never strike a king unless you are sure you shall kill him.”

Seriously though, I agree with the sentiment. But that should enforce the idea that you want a bulletproof investigation and sanction. I think Roger promised more than his lieutenants could deliver.

Much like Henry (don't call me Matthew) Stafford?

[red]

The most shocking thing to me was that the PA s would send low level emplyees into the visitors locker room during pregame to find and steal the other teams scripted plays. When teams caught on to it and tried to lock the doors or have them guarded, pats emplyees would say they couldn't because it was a fire hazard.

The pats also were said to have sent team employees to the visitors hotels pool ng for playbooks or game notes

I think k there should be a new investigation opened, and if any of this is true, belechek should be banned for life

[mraynrand]

Perhaps Belichick and Brady should have to wear cameras. Oh, wait...

[Bossman641]

The most shocking thing to me was that the PA s would send low level emplyees into the visitors locker room during pregame to find and steal the other teams scripted plays. When teams caught on to it and tried to lock the doors or have them guarded, pats emplyees would say they couldn't because it was a fire hazard.

The pats also were said to have sent team employees to the visitors hotels pool ng for playbooks or game notes

I think k there should be a new investigation opened, and if any of this is true, belechek should be banned for life

For me, it was that they would have guys on the sidelines wearing their shirts inside out, taping over logos, and wearing Patriots TV or Kraft Productions credentials. Obviously that's a sign that you know what you were doing was wrong and you shouldn't be doing it.

How could Belicheck then feign ignorance and say it was a misinterpretation of a rule?

[Pugger]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13533995/split-nfl-new-england-patriots-apart

[sharpe1027]

It actually doesn't matter if the previous assumptions or experience was correct or helpful. Predisposes someone (anyone, not just Deflategate or football or owners) to believe that new evidence or facts support previous experience without a thorough examination.

We all have biases, and yet many are able to still do a thorough examination. One does not follow the other, unless nobody can ever do a thorough examination. If that is the case, then maybe we should just give up.

[pbmax]

We all have biases, and yet many are able to still do a thorough examination. One does not follow the other, unless nobody can ever do a thorough examination. If that is the case, then maybe we should just give up.

I don't mean no one can do a thorough examination. But the self satisfied answers the owners gave were consistent with a group of people who knew what they expected to find. And they wanted action. And not action on a thorough, independent inquiry. Wells might have been involved only to remove Goodell after some owners thought he failed in Spygate.

In order to keep his support and his job, Goodell had to deliver bigger penalties than in Spygate. And he failed, partially based on available evidence (evidence against team stronger than it was against Brady), but also on further decisions like not negotiating a deal with Brady once Kraft gave up the lawsuit. From this point of view, the lawsuit was inevitable. Goodall could not afford to back down. The Judge summoned John Mara to Court and some reporters speculated it was because he suspected Goodell did not have the authority to negotiate terms.

This is all a piece of a man without a plan. Many praised his political skills in that ESPN article. But he lack of other skills is much more troubling. This is why Goodell always looks like a Civil War General for the Union side, who will develop a plan once he is governed by circumstances.

[sharpe1027]

I doubt the owners were commenting on legal procedural issues. Since that was the basis of the overturned appeal, they weren't exactly shown to have been wrong (or biased) in their opinions. Most people accept that Brady was involved in cheating.

[NewsBruin]

The SI piece has Thayer Evans in the byline. Evans had been raked over the coals by Big 12 fans for his expose series on Oklahoma State University a few years back that had many of its sources deny, backtrack, or accuse Evans of manufacturing their statements.

[pbmax]

I doubt the owners were commenting on legal procedural issues. Since that was the basis of the overturned appeal, they weren't exactly shown to have been wrong (or biased) in their opinions. Most people accept that Brady was involved in cheating.

Its not that the owners misjudged guilt. "About time", "at-last", "looked tough", "overdue", "good ... political maneuverer". They were pleased about how it looked and who it hurt. That it corrected a previously missed opportunity.

I can't come up with the adjective to do justice to the short sightedness of the whole thing. Its like watching a Scorsese movie.

[pbmax]

The SI piece has Thayer Evans in the byline. Evans had been raked over the coals by Big 12 fans for his expose series on Oklahoma State University a few years back that had many of its sources deny, backtrack, or accuse Evans of manufacturing their statements.

To your point: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/si-com-story-on-pats-has-compelling-but-inaccurate-anecdote/


Lost in the wake of the 10,000-word ESPN odyssey regarding the depths of the Spygate rabbit hole was a SI.com story that focused primarily on the steps taken by other teams to avoid being on the wrong end of New England cheating. Contained in that story was a compelling anecdote.

Compelling, but inaccurate.

He got the story of declaring players OUT for road trips wrong.

[mraynrand]

Its not that the owners misjudged guilt. "About time", "at-last", "looked tough", "overdue", "good ... political maneuverer". They were pleased about how it looked and who it hurt. That it corrected a previously missed opportunity.

I can't come up with the adjective to do justice to the short sightedness of the whole thing. Its like watching a Scorsese movie.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/CYUDHVmioGETu/200_s.gif

two De Niros in one day. That's a good haul.

[pbmax]

And your sig takes care of the tracking shot.

[mraynrand]

"Gisele and I are very happy with the outcome. Very, very happy."

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix//2015/09/09/15/article-999-2C1D846300000578-397_302x322.jpg

[sharpe1027]

"Gisele and I are very happy with the outcome. Very, very happy."

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix//2015/09/09/15/article-999-2C1D846300000578-397_302x322.jpg

Did the Wells report confirm what he is texting in that photo? Unsound!

[mraynrand]

Did the Wells report confirm what he is texting in that photo? Unsound!


LOL. I'm guessing that is a relatively new phone. Verizon insurance wasn't buying the claim of an 'accidental' drop for the old one however. He paid full price.

[pbmax]

Now the League Office is just stalling. I use this excuse for invoices all the time:

Tom E. Curran ‏@tomecurran 17m17 minutes ago
The NFL acknowledged it received reinstatement request. First request sent Monday, no reply. After 2 more, league said they got it.

That is a request for the reinstatement of the two texting co-conspirators Jastremski and the Deflator (or maybe the Deflator's co-worker). This was another odd instance of each side insisting like an 8 year old that they did not do the thing they obviously did. The League at one point claimed it did not request the two be indefinitely suspended. But now it has to approve their return.

Its a 15 billion dollar per year business run by an elementary school.

[sharpe1027]

So the Pats are forcing the issue and leaking information to further their cause? Too funny. It is like watching elementary kids, but with a much bigger budget.

[Joemailman]

So the Pats are forcing the issue and leaking information to further their cause? Too funny. It is like watching elementary kids, but with a much bigger budget.

http://img08.deviantart.net/1590/i/2012/204/4/c/he_started_it___sketch__by_wahyawolf-d58cgo3.jpg

[pbmax]

Yep. Not sure this is a direct answer to the ESPN article (which was the entire League venting spleen) but it seems likely the Pats want to plant their own flag of righteousness.

[pbmax]

Cheating always sound much more fun in retrospect. Like cute Gaylord Perry with the wiping of his hand all over his hat.


Coaches have taken to using their laminated list of plays to cover their mouths when sending in instructions. Some, such as Tampa Bay's Jon Gruden, cover almost their entire face.

There is some logic to that. Ernie Accorsi, general manager of the New York Giants, was the assistant GM with the Baltimore Colts in 1977 when the team hired Bob Colbert as an administrative assistant. Colbert was a former head coach at Gallaudet, the leading university for the deaf and hard of hearing, and was a professional lip-reader.


"We didn't hire him for that reason, but lip-reading was his expertise," Accorsi said.

In the 1977 regular-season finale, a do-or-die game against New England, Colbert trained his binoculars on the Patriot defensive coordinator and saw him mouth the words "double safety blitz."

"We got that in to [quarterback] Bert Jones and he hit Raymond Chester down the middle for a 78-yard touchdown," said Accorsi, whose team won the division and got into the playoffs with that win.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/05/sports/sp-nflfeature5

[pbmax]

The above article is a must read. Here is the story of testing what would become Paul Brown and the NFL's first radio system:


The inventors carefully mounted the receiver in a Cleveland helmet and tested it in a secluded area behind Campbell's home. Sarles would wander into the woods wearing the helmet, and Campbell would try to keep contact with him. They found the signal got weak very quickly and, once, Campbell searched all over for Sarles before spotting him talking to a police officer who had located the signal. The officer was a Brown fan, according to a Pro Football Hall of Fame account of the story, and promised not to reveal the radio secret to anyone.

This article features Bum Phillips, Marv Levy and Ditka being a dope, yet succeeding. It has everything.

[pbmax]

So the NFL is not releasing results from game testing of ball pressure during 2015, thereby ruining the chance for football to confirm the Ideal Gas Law.

New England is incensed and it looks a LOT like the NFL did not want to bolster Brady's case against their appeal of the Federal ruling last fall. I am pretty stunned that Brady's team did not raise a bigger stink.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/nfl-blows-chance-to-fully-understand-football-air-pressure/

[Rutnstrut]

So the NFL is not releasing results from game testing of ball pressure during 2015, thereby ruining the chance for football to confirm the Ideal Gas Law.

New England is incensed and it looks a LOT like the NFL did not want to bolster Brady's case against their appeal of the Federal ruling last fall. I am pretty stunned that Brady's team did not raise a bigger stink.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/02/nfl-blows-chance-to-fully-understand-football-air-pressure/

Makes sense since it was a witch hunt from the start.

[mraynrand]

Makes sense since it was a witch hunt from the start.

Nah. They knew he was screwing with his balls, but they just didn't catch him with his pants down, and nobody got knocked up, so it didn't matter.

[pbmax]

Nah. They knew he was screwing with his balls, but they just didn't catch him with his pants down, and nobody got knocked up, so it didn't matter.

Perhaps, but they aren't going to win their appeal if those numbers back up the idea that the balls weren't under-inflated at the start of the game.

I'd still bet the scheme was to keep the balls at 12.5, or a tick lower, no matter what the officials did. Still circumvention, but not exactly the same thing.

[mraynrand]

Perhaps, but they aren't going to win their appeal if those numbers back up the idea that the balls weren't under-inflated at the start of the game.

I'd still bet the scheme was to keep the balls at 12.5, or a tick lower, no matter what the officials did. Still circumvention, but not exactly the same thing.

you know and I know that they futzed with their balls. But nobody really cares because 1) they can't prove they did it 2) they can't prove it couldn't or wouldn't happen naturally 3) it didn't affect the game and 4) If anyone cares at all, they mostly side with Brady because of 1-3 or oppose Brady/Belicheat because of how they perceived them before this 'scandal'

[pbmax]

you know and I know that they futzed with their balls. But nobody really cares because 1) they can't prove they did it 2) they can't prove it couldn't or wouldn't happen naturally 3) it didn't affect the game and 4) If anyone cares at all, they mostly side with Brady because of 1-3 or oppose Brady/Belicheat because of how they perceived them before this 'scandal'

I don't care what we "know" because we are way past that having any effect. I care that the NFL loses this appeal. I hope the NFLPA or the judge orders those numbers entered into the court record.

[mraynrand]

I don't care what we "know" because we are way past that having any effect. I care that the NFL loses this appeal. I hope the NFLPA or the judge orders those numbers entered into the court record.

interesting

[pbmax]

I find it odd that the ball were removed from the officials room. But I find it almost as odd as there is no evidence that it had happened before. Because the cell phone thing made it sound like a regular event.

There has to be a way to square those two things and I think a scheme to not let the officials re-inflate the balls might fit the bill.

But as I said, that doesn't matter much now. I just want the bar for NFL investigations to be raised higher.

[mraynrand]

I just want the bar for NFL investigations to be raised higher.

I figured that's where you're coming from. The NFL obviously doesn't want to have to admit that there's no difference in the balls, regardless, that is, that all can be explained by normal variation. In hindsight (and maybe some foresight we didn't have at the time) they picked really weak soil on which to plant their flag.

[pbmax]

Well this settles it. According the my careful calibrated Bayesian slider adjustments, there is an 82% chance the Patriots are guilty.

https://hatch113.shinyapps.io/bayesian_net_calc/

[pbmax]

NFL wins the Brady appeal on a 2-1 Federal Appeals court vote. He's out four games.

Its either an en banc appeal or request for the Supreme Court to review. Neither is common.

https://t.co/egW0bhtPtb

[Guiness]

And he's suspended again

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/25/nfl-wins-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension-back-on/

and it looks like the blocked some of the paths for an appeal

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/25/second-circuit-slams-door-on-judge-berman-scrapping-brady-suspension-again/

Lastly, this may have played out roughly the way the Pats wanted it to - he's suspended for the first four games of the season, which I can't help but think are less critical than late season ones, and Brady restructured his deal to lower his base salary to $1M.

edit: two nationally televised (meh) but two divisional games and two against playoff teams from last year has to hurt

[Joemailman]

If they appeal this to the U.S. Supreme Court, things will have gotten totally ridiculous.

[Guiness]

If they appeal this to the U.S. Supreme Court, things will have gotten totally ridiculous.

Would that be the next step in the process?

I wouldn't doubt Brady has the ego to do that, and the Supreme Court might relish the idea of sticking their nose into the NFL's business.

[mraynrand]

If a supreme court justice is on record saying "I want to look at your inflated balls" this will have all been worth it.

[pbmax]

If a supreme court justice is on record saying "I want to look at your inflated balls" this will have all been worth it.

They will know it when they see it.

[Teamcheez1]

Even if it was appealed to the Supreme Court, there is no guarantee they would even agree to hear it. They may simply let the appeals court ruling stand and move on.

[mraynrand]

the Supreme Court might relish the idea of sticking their nose into the NFL's business.

probably would rather it be on something more substantial, like concussions, but that's pretty unlikely. The latest settlement looks like it will stand.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/19/sports/football/nfl-concussion-lawsuit.html?_r=0

[pbmax]

Well, for this iteration of the Sanctioning of Tom Brady, the Original Post title makes sense.

[Rutnstrut]

The NFL gets their way once again. This was a lynching from the start

[Pugger]

If they appeal this to the U.S. Supreme Court, things will have gotten totally ridiculous.

I seriously doubt the Supreme Court will ever hear this.

[Pugger]

The NFL gets their way once again. This was a lynching from the start

I don't see what good it would be for the league to go after one of their most successful franchises and star player unless they feel something against the rules happened. I know the league loves publicity but I can't imagine they want this kind of press coverage. Nobody wins in these kinds of things. NE looks like a bunch of lying cheats and Goodell looks like a lying buffoon.

[Zool]

NE looks like a bunch of lying cheats and Goodell looks like a lying buffoon.

They both look like that because they are that.

[Bretsky]

HOW IDIOTIC DOES ROBERT KRAFT LOOK NOW ??????????????? If he was going to donate draft picks you'd think he'd have a deal worked out ahead of time.

[gbgary]

upheld...as it should be.

[pbmax]

Its not over!

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 1h1 hour ago
Addition of Ted Olson to Tom Brady's legal team means #Deflategate isn't ending any time soon

[ThunderDan]

Its not over!

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 1h1 hour ago
Addition of Ted Olson to Tom Brady's legal team means #Deflategate isn't ending any time soon

Of course not, Brady gets to draft an appeal to either the en banc or Supreme Court. Both are long shots so they are going to find the lawyer with the best shot at getting it done. Probably a guy with different skill sets than a litigator. If they are allowed the appeal, the old lawyers will step back in.

[pbmax]

Of course not, Brady gets to draft an appeal to either the en banc or Supreme Court. Both are long shots so they are going to find the lawyer with the best shot at getting it done. Probably a guy with different skill sets than a litigator. If they are allowed the appeal, the old lawyers will step back in.

I don't think its entirely a no brainer. Ted Olson is one of the top appellate guys in the US, so he is costing serious money. Serious money against a long shot appeal.

The only edge here is that if they get granted a review, then the 3 man Court of Appeals opinion is stayed and Brady plays this year. It would be nearly unheard of for this to be heard before the season.

I wish there was a way to try Roger and the NFLPA leadership on a kangaroo court and sent the all to an Italian Basketball League for 5 years.

[pbmax]

Daily Snark ‏@DailySnark 2h2 hours ago
Roger Goodell and NFL hire new lawyer to help defeat Tom Brady in court. http://dailysnark.com/nfl-hires-new-lawyer-to-vs-brady/ …


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjKF8d7W0AAvqwn.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Scott Isaacs ‏@ScottIsaacs
Tom Brady’s attorneys reveal exclusively to ABC News they will appeal ruling reinstating 4-game suspension to entire 2nd Circuit bench #wcvb

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Tom Brady official appeal petition will come at 3 pm today. 1 argument: Goodell ignored the schedule of penalties & there is no basis for it

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Another argument Brady's legal team will make: Goodell affirmed the suspension on different grounds than Brady was originally suspended

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
If the 2nd Circuit grants Tom Brady the en banc appeal he's requesting, he's essentially guaranteed to play the 2016 season based on timing

[pbmax]

2nd circuit says NO to en banc request from Brady. Next step is Supreme Court. As PFT said, he didn't hire Ted Olson not to go to the Supreme Court.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/13/second-circuit-denies-brady-request-for-new-hearing/

There are underlying principles of workplace law at work here, but the Courts might not like the layout of the case and the precedent it would set, even if they thought this process was wonky. They also might not like the attendant publicity given the subjects.

1. Brady argued that Goodell as arbitrator was limited to info presented in Wells Report and that info was bunk. 2nd Circuit says the arbitration agreement in the CBA doesn't read that way. Someone on the NFLPA legal team will not be asked back after they have belatedly discovered how much authority they handed over to Roger with few standards.

2. Due Process, basically that the scientific info was junk and all subsequent findings were efforts to justify suspension beyond the original conception of the charges. Again, no agreed to limit for arbitrator. He can fish for what he wants to fish for.

3. Workplace rules, past discipline for failure to cooperate (essentially what this punishment is hanging on) was very mild. With no announcement of change, Goodell substantially increases the penalty and adds new feature (turn over cell phone records).


#3 is the most troubling since Goodell can just make this stuff up on the fly and he rules through public proclamation anyway. Its also clear proof that he has taken nothing from Tagliabue's remonstration of him over BountyGate.

[pbmax]

Chris B. Brown ‏@smartfootball 60m60 minutes ago
@billbarnwell if I was arguing a labor case on behalf of a corporation I'd cite the heck out of Brady v NFL

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnQCUXtXgAEQnGM.jpg:large


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnQCUXsWIAAjkNS.jpg:large