Joemailman's Fearless Stab At The 53 Man Roster - Post Family Night Version

[Joemailman]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Rajion Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis,
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Linsley, Tretter, Lang, Sitton, Taylor, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Barclay

DL (6) Boyd, Daniels, Pennel, Raji, Ringo, Thornton
LB (9) Barrington, Elliott, Matthews, Mulumba, Neal, Palmer, Peppers, Perry, Ryan
DB (10)Goodson, Gunter, Hayward, Randall, Rollins, Shields, Hyde, Burnett, Clinton-Dix,
Richardson
ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode
Suspended: Guion, Jones

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm sure that is close to right, the roster is not so mysterious this year.

2 fullbacks and 4 TEs strikes me as a lot of bruisers, but it is possible.

I'd rather have one less and add speed - a 3rd down rb or wide receiver if talent available.

[Guiness]

Good list, a couple of thoughts about it.

I think it's just as likely they end up with 1 TE as 4. I'd say only Rodgers is guaranteed a spot there.

We call for it every year, but is this the one they carry 6 WRs? I thought is might be with Montgomery being an ST specialist, but if he is the #4WR, that bumps someone else. Right now though, it sure looks like White could bounce Janis.

Is Danztler still in the picture?

[Joemailman]

I think it's just as likely they end up with 1 TE as 4. I'd say only Rodgers is guaranteed a spot there.

There's no way they keep less than 3 TE's. Aside from receiving, TE's block and they play special teams. Another thing to consider: From 2005-2014, TT had 95 draft picks. By my count 83 made the team as a rookie. So Backman has about an 87% chance of making the team just because he was drafted. Unless he shows absolutely nothing, he'll be on the team.

[Guiness]

There's no way they keep less than 3 TE's. Aside from receiving, TE's block and they play special teams. Another thing to consider: From 2005-2014, TT had 95 draft picks. By my count 83 made the team as a rookie. So Backman has about an 87% chance of making the team just because he was drafted. Unless he shows absolutely nothing, he'll be on the team.

I was going to say that - few of TT's draft picks don't make the team. Still, with 2 FBs, you have to think a TE spot goes away. I'd like to see 9 OL, I'm especially worried about depth at the guard positions with Sitton's toe. I don't want to see Barclay there.

[red]

Good list, a couple of thoughts about it.

I think it's just as likely they end up with 1 TE as 4. I'd say only Rodgers is guaranteed a spot there.

We call for it every year, but is this the one they carry 6 WRs? I thought is might be with Montgomery being an ST specialist, but if he is the #4WR, that bumps someone else. Right now though, it sure looks like White could bounce Janis.

Is Danztler still in the picture?

thank you. bout time someone agrees with me on the TE's

you don't keep someone whos shit just because of the position they play

Q is our clear cut #2 or maybe even the #1, and i honestly don't think he's worth the roster spot

[Harlan Huckleby]

bDB (10)Goodson, Gunter, Hayward, Randall, Rollins, Shields, Hyde, Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Richardson

I think we can scratch Gunter off the list. Whenever DBs on the bubble get preseason picks they get cut. I think Rolle made that mistake last summer.

[Joemailman]

I was going to say that - few of TT's draft picks don't make the team. Still, with 2 FBs, you have to think a TE spot goes away. I'd like to see 9 OL, I'm especially worried about depth at the guard positions with Sitton's toe. I don't want to see Barclay there.

I think the bigger issue is at OT. Barclay has been struggling there, and the improvement of Lane Taylor has improved the depth situation at G.

[pbmax]

I think the bigger issue is at OT. Barclay has been struggling there, and the improvement of Lane Taylor has improved the depth situation at G.

Yeah, he wasn't a world beater as a pass protector his first year. But now he resembles a turnstile.

[mraynrand]

There's no way they keep less than 3 TE's. Aside from receiving, TE's block and they play special teams. Another thing to consider: From 2005-2014, TT had 95 draft picks. By my count 83 made the team as a rookie. So Backman has about an 87% chance of making the team just because he was drafted. Unless he shows absolutely nothing, he'll be on the team.

That Perillo is just plain fat. Saw him lumbering out there last night and was wondering if he'd make it to the keg at second base.

http://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/static/brewers_barrel.gif

[Joemailman]

Yeah, he wasn't a world beater as a pass protector his first year. But now he resembles a turnstile.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/undrafted-alonzo-harris-impressive-in-packers-exhibition-win-b99556233z1-321845511.html


It appears veteran offensive lineman Don Barclay is going to need more time to prove he is back from a torn knee ligament suffered in training camp last year.

Barclay had a nightmarish evening. He was beat so badly by Patriots end Jabaal Sheard he just tackled him to the ground to save a sack, drawing a 15-yard penalty. In the third quarter, linebacker Rufus Johnson threw Barclay to the ground and sacked quarterback Brett Hundley, who had no chance to escape.

Throughout, Barclay seemed to be a step behind in his pass blocking. It was his first live action since suffering the torn ACL, so he's not panicking. But the Packers are counting on him to back up several positions and will need to see him back to form by the end of camp.

"It's always a battle," Barclay said. "You work on stuff everyday. It's just working on the hands and working on the feet, stuff like that will come just getting the reps everyday in practice and the looks. It's nothing I'm worried about.

"There were a couple plays I didn't like. There were a couple of plays I'd like back."

[smuggler]

Is holding a 15 yard penalty now?

[mraynrand]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/undrafted-alonzo-harris-impressive-in-packers-exhibition-win-b99556233z1-321845511.html

There's a "confidence threshold" aspect of ACL recovery. Even if you are 100% physically, you have to get past a point where you just trust your body to work right, and aren't fearful at some level, waiting and wondering whether it will give out again. Some of those injuries take time before you can forget about them and just play. Either that, or Barclay just sucks.

[mraynrand]

Is holding a 15 yard penalty now?

I think that's only against the Patriots. Because, Bill Belichick.

[sharpe1027]

Nice stab. There will likely be a few surprises, but its nearly impossible to predict. Kuhn is one I would watch, assuming Rip proves dependable in pass-pro. Love what Kuhn has done for the Pack, but not sure he justifies a spot for much longer.

[mraynrand]

Nice stab. There will likely be a few surprises, but its nearly impossible to predict. Kuhn is one I would watch, assuming Rip proves dependable in pass-pro. Love what Kuhn has done for the Pack, but not sure he justifies a spot for much longer.

Rip looked great blocking and on teams. You are right - pass pro/knowing the offense and Kuhn is history.

[Joemailman]

I think Kuhn makes it 1 more year. Of the 53 I picked, I think Perillo is the most shaky.

[Guiness]

Perillo looked better than Q during the exhibition game, imo

[mraynrand]

Perillo looked better than Q during the exhibition game, imo

Played better I could believe, looked better, not so much.

[texaspackerbacker]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Rajion Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis,
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Linsley, Tretter, Lang, Sitton, Taylor, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Barclay

DL (6) Boyd, Daniels, Pennel, Raji, Ringo, Thornton
LB (9) Barrington, Elliott, Matthews, Mulumba, Neal, Palmer, Peppers, Perry, Ryan
DB (10)Goodson, Gunter, Hayward, Randall, Rollins, Shields, Hyde, Burnett, Clinton-Dix,
Richardson
ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode
Suspended: Guion, Jones

I like this a lot. I hadn't considered previously that the suspended don't count for the games they are out. The position numbers are still the key, as a lot of young players still could break in, and of course, there's always the specter of injuries and IR.

I'd sooner go with 2 TEs than 4. 3 probably will be the real number - either Backman or Perillo, not both. That would allow a 6th WR.

As for individuals, ideally they keep Banjo over Richardson, but I doubt it happens that way. Maybe cut Thornton and go with just 5 D Linemen to keep Banjo. Also, I think Hubbard and/or Vaughters have a solid chance of beating out somebody - my choice to go would be those overripe fruit: Neal and/or Perry or maybe Palmer.

[sharpe1027]

I think Kuhn makes it 1 more year. Of the 53 I picked, I think Perillo is the most shaky.

They kept Driver a year longer than they probably should have (at least based upon on-field performance), so I could see them keeping Kuhn. Honestly though, if they get to the last day and Kuhn is eating up a spot that could be used ona younger guy with good special team performance and a chance at a long future, he's probably gone.

[vince]

ideally they keep Banjo over Richardson That's crazy talk Tex. Richardson is a far better Safety and Special Teamer than Banjo.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nice stab. There will likely be a few surprises, but its nearly impossible to predict. Kuhn is one I would watch, assuming Rip proves dependable in pass-pro. Love what Kuhn has done for the Pack, but not sure he justifies a spot for much longer.

You've walked up to the edge, now all that is left is to jump. Kuhn is gonna get cut. They have a new draftee who is young and dumb and willing to run through walls. Kuhn is not really a serviceable rb backup, the new guys look like better options. Harris could backup both positions. The fb is only sporadically on the field. They don't need two full time fullbacks.

30 is the new 40 when it comes to NFL running backs. Kuhn will be 33 in September.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

[smuggler]

Kuhn will be hard pressed to make the squad with Rip hammering dudes in the run game. Hammering. Dudes.

[vince]

I'm with Joe. They both make it. Rip will be a special teams demon and Kuhn will be Rodgers' designated protector in case of emergency. There's room for both, especially considering there doesn't appear to be a must-keep talent beyond the top 3 tight ends.

[smuggler]

Is Perillo your 3rd TE? Serious question. We drafted Backman, but Perillo and Henry seem ahead of him at present.

[vince]

Perillo, or Backman, or Henry. Two of em can stay until Quarless comes back from suspension.

I don't have a strong sense of whether Backman is ready yet this year, but just from watching him move and catch I think he has some upside potential.

Without knowing much, I'd go with Backman on the 53 and let Perillo and Henry go. They're not good enough/won't contribute enough on ST or at TE to keep over what Ripkowski or Kuhn bring this year IMO.

[pbmax]

Perillo, or Backman, or Henry. Two of em can stay until Quarless comes back from suspension.

I don't have a strong sense of whether Backman is ready yet this year, but just from watching him move and catch I think he has some upside potential.

Without knowing much, I'd go with Backman on the 53 and let Perillo and Henry go. They're not good enough/won't contribute enough on ST or at TE to keep over what Ripkowski or Kuhn bring this year IMO.

He's gotten camp praise for his blocking. Didn't see NE preseason game, so can't say any more.

[Pugger]

He's gotten camp praise for his blocking. Didn't see NE preseason game, so can't say any more.

If you have the NFL Network they are replaying this game again tonight.

[vince]

He's gotten camp praise for his blocking. Didn't see NE preseason game, so can't say any more.That's encouraging - and a bit surprising actually. At 245 he's a tad light in the shorts though not a lot. Crabtree wasn't big either but he'd stick his face in there and battle. If Backman can block consistently that seals the deal as far as I'm concerned.

[Joemailman]

Perillo, or Backman, or Henry. Two of em can stay until Quarless comes back from suspension.

I don't have a strong sense of whether Backman is ready yet this year, but just from watching him move and catch I think he has some upside potential.

Without knowing much, I'd go with Backman on the 53 and let Perillo and Henry go. They're not good enough/won't contribute enough on ST or at TE to keep over what Ripkowski or Kuhn bring this year IMO.

Is it a given that Quarless will be suspended this year? Or will the NFL wait until a verdict is reached?

[Guiness]

I'd assume quarless will get a game or more. Goodell is just a little preoccupied right now, but he'll turn his attention to him eventually. Stupid that the team doesn't know for sure what will happen with him, the suspension, if it comes could be just about anything.

[red]

this doesn't really have anything to do with the final 53, but did anyone else notice how insanely tall adrian hubbard is?

they showed one shot of the huddle and he was by far the tallest guy in there, by about a half a foot

[vince]

Is it a given that Quarless will be suspended this year? Or will the NFL wait until a verdict is reached?
I'm assuming it's a given with the gun infraction but that could be wrong. I haven't looked but there's precedent for that isn't there? It was Burress that shot himself in the leg right? His was a felony in NY (I think) so that was much more serious legally but similar I'd say from the NFL's perspective. He was out for a long time due to his jail sentence I think. Not sure what action the league actually took.

And I'm not sure about timing either but they may wait until the verdict as well. I don't think they have to wait but if they haven't acted yet it would appear they will. Not sure of the precedent on that either. When does this go to court anyway?

Bottom line is I don't have a clue Joe. ;-) I'm sure no-one's surprised about that...

[Pugger]

this doesn't really have anything to do with the final 53, but did anyone else notice how insanely tall adrian hubbard is?

they showed one shot of the huddle and he was by far the tallest guy in there, by about a half a foot

I just looked at the Packers' website and they list Hubbard at 6'6"! Peppers is the tallest at 6'7".

[red]

I just looked at the Packers' website and they list Hubbard at 6'6"! Peppers is the tallest at 6'7".

yeah, peppers wasn't in the huddle at the time. i think it was hubbard and a bunch of 6-1 and under guys

he looked massive

both guys are huge for LB's

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think red is sweet on Hubbard. "Tall", "dark", "huge".

It's fine, no need to confirm or deny. We all get awe struck from time to time.

[Joemailman]

I think red is sweet on Hubbard. "Tall", "dark", "huge".

It's fine, no need to confirm or deny. We all get awe struck from time to time.

I believe Red said he looked massive.

[bobblehead]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Rajion Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis,
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Linsley, Tretter, Lang, Sitton, Taylor, Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Barclay

DL (6) Boyd, Daniels, Pennel, Raji, Ringo, Thornton
LB (9) Barrington, Elliott, Matthews, Mulumba, Neal, Palmer, Peppers, Perry, Ryan
DB (10)Goodson, Gunter, Hayward, Randall, Rollins, Shields, Hyde, Burnett, Clinton-Dix,
Richardson
ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode
Suspended: Guion, Jones

Close probably, but I think Guion and Jones have to be on the 53, which could mean losing a player to another team on the DL before we can adjust. I think Ripkowski doesn't make the team, but add White as a 6th receiver. TE is a complete toss up after Rodgers and Q. I think (again) that Joe Thomas makes the team in place of Palmer.

[Joemailman]

Close probably, but I think Guion and Jones have to be on the 53, which could mean losing a player to another team on the DL before we can adjust. I think Ripkowski doesn't make the team, but add White as a 6th receiver. TE is a complete toss up after Rodgers and Q. I think (again) that Joe Thomas makes the team in place of Palmer.

I don't think Guion and Jones can be on the 53 while suspended.

http://overthecap.com/explaining-roster-designations/


Reserve/Suspended- This listing is for players who have been suspended by the NFL. Players on the suspended list are not paid for their time suspended, do not count against the active 53, and their salaries are reduced to reflect the weeks they are suspended. For example Justin Blackmon of the Jaguars will see his base salary drop from 17 games of pay to just 13 games of pay. Players can also have their signing bonuses reduced due to forfeiture provisions in the CBA. In the case of drug suspension this is mandatory. In other cases teams will determine if they will go after bonus money. I am unsure if this forfeiture is accrued during of after the season, but will try to clarify at a later date. While suspended the cap charges count in full.

I think the fact that Myles white isn't a big ST contributor will hurt his chances. Rip was drafted to eventually replace Kuhn. The only question is whether the future is now. Thomas may have a shot as dime 'backer.

[smuggler]

According to this article, suspended players don't count against the final 53.

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/When-suspension-isnt-a-bad-thing-Keeping-more-than-53-players-38698793/

[bobblehead]

According to this article, suspended players don't count against the final 53.

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/When-suspension-isnt-a-bad-thing-Keeping-more-than-53-players-38698793/

I profess to not knowing for sure, but doesn't a suspended player have to be on the 53, then put on suspended after that? Meaning someone has to be released and then added.

[Joemailman]

I profess to not knowing for sure, but doesn't a suspended player have to be on the 53, then put on suspended after that? Meaning someone has to be released and then added.

I don't think so. On cut-down day, teams have to turn in their 53 man active roster, as well as their reserve rosters: Reserve-Injured, Reserve-Injured, Designated for return, and Reserve-Suspended. Once the suspension is over, they then have to either release the player, or add him to the roster and release someone else.

[Patler]

I profess to not knowing for sure, but doesn't a suspended player have to be on the 53, then put on suspended after that? Meaning someone has to be released and then added.


I don't think so. On cut-down day, teams have to turn in their 53 man active roster, as well as their reserve rosters: Reserve-Injured, Reserve-Injured, Designated for return, and Reserve-Suspended. Once the suspension is over, they then have to either release the player, or add him to the roster and release someone else.

What Bobblehead suggests makes sense, because:

- A suspended FA has to be signed by someone before his suspension starts.
- IR Designated to Return requires the player be on the final 53, then moved to IR (unless the rule has been changed)

[bobblehead]

What Bobblehead suggests makes sense, because:

- A suspended FA has to be signed by someone before his suspension starts.
- IR Designated to Return requires the player be on the final 53, then moved to IR (unless the rule has been changed)

I just figured it punishes team and player much more if they have to count against 53...almost a reward if they don't. I am only going on what makes sense to me, therefor I am likely wrong.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Ripkowski doesn't make the team, but add White as a 6th receiver.
Well, there's a ballsy prediction! Giant, old man balls. TT does not cut draft picks in first camp, normally.

Was listening to Silverstein on local radio, he thought Kuhn had a real chance of getting cut. Beat writers from packernews think both FBs will stick.

I think a factor that pushes for 2 FBs is the lack of talent at backup TE. There are mostly developmental guys there. Perillo may be ready to play, but he doesn't look like much.

I think Kuhn & Flynn had Donald Driver Career Achievement Award contracts in 2014.

[hoosier]

TEs are awful. Kuhn and Rip both make the final cut, but Kuhn is the first to go if they need to create space.

[sharpe1027]

What Bobblehead suggests makes sense, because:

- A suspended FA has to be signed by someone before his suspension starts.
- IR Designated to Return requires the player be on the final 53, then moved to IR (unless the rule has been changed)

1) A FA can be signed before making the 53.
2) Can't you do that at the exact same time you submit the final 53? In other words, you really submit 54, with the IR designated at the same time.

I always understood the rules as having slots that these players get put, not that you have to first put them on the active 53 list, and then move them. It just doesn't make sense that you have to cut a guy only to have to try to sign him a millisecond later -- after you move another guy from the active 53 to suspension exemption.

[Patler]

1) A FA can be signed before making the 53.
2) Can't you do that at the exact same time you submit the final 53? In other words, you really submit 54, with the IR designated at the same time.

I always understood the rules as having slots that these players get put, not that you have to first put them on the active 53 list, and then move them. It just doesn't make sense that you have to cut a guy only to have to try to sign him a millisecond later -- after you move another guy from the active 53 to suspension exemption.

I don't understand what you mean in #1. After the season starts, a FA who is facing a suspension, like Bush, will have to be signed by someone before the suspension begins. Thus, he will be signed to their 53 man roster, go on suspension, and then be replaced.

At the final cutdown to 53, I don't think you can sign a suspended player's replacement a millisecond later if the replacement player was just cut and is subject to waivers. If the replacement player is a vested veteran, you can, if the player is willing.

For IR designated to return, the league explained that as of the final cutdown, each team can control only 53 players who will be eligible to play in the upcoming year. Everyone else is either subject to a waiver claim by other teams, or is free to sign with any team of their choice. For that reason, an injured player at the start of the year has to first be included in the 53 man roster, then moved to IR designated to return. Maybe it is different with suspended players at the start of the season, but logic would say it should follow the same course.

[Harlan Huckleby]

TEs are awful. Kuhn and Rip both make the final cut, but Kuhn is the first to go if they need to create space.

Isn't the problem with that scenario that Kuhn is a vested veteran? They have to give him a free skybox and parking space or something if they cut him later?

I doubt Packers would try the cut-and-resign game with Kuhn, I don't remember any longterm Packers getting put on that carousel. I imagine market for FBs is limited, Packers might get away with shinanigans if they wanted.

[sharpe1027]

I don't understand what you mean in #1. After the season starts, a FA who is facing a suspension, like Bush, will have to be signed by someone before the suspension begins. Thus, he will be signed to their 53 man roster, go on suspension, and then be replaced.

At the final cutdown to 53, I don't think you can sign a suspended player's replacement a millisecond later if the replacement player was just cut and is subject to waivers. If the replacement player is a vested veteran, you can, if the player is willing.

For IR designated to return, the league explained that as of the final cutdown, each team can control only 53 players who will be eligible to play in the upcoming year. Everyone else is either subject to a waiver claim by other teams, or is free to sign with any team of their choice. For that reason, an injured player at the start of the year has to first be included in the 53 man roster, then moved to IR designated to return. Maybe it is different with suspended players at the start of the season, but logic would say it should follow the same course.

Sorry, I was not very clear. For number 1, I was talking about before the season starts, that's what I meant about "before making the 53." The reason I said that was because rules that apply during the year, do not necessarily show what happens during the cut down period. In this particular example, you are able to sign more than 53 players right now, which you can't do during the season. When they get to cut down, I am not sure that they must cut players to keep suspended players -- and then resign a player to take the place of the suspended player. Maybe they do, but not necessarily.

IR designated to return is similar to suspension, but IR designated to return is at the team's discretion. Suspension is not quite the same animal, the only discretion is whether or not to cut the player.

[smuggler]

Seems pretty clear that Gunter is making this team. He's getting first-team reps and performing respectably. Considering Shields, Hayward, Rollins, and Randall are all near locks as well, and throw in the fact that Hyde can play in the slot if needed, we may not have a spot for any of the other CB hopefuls.

[Guiness]

Seems pretty clear that Gunter is making this team. He's getting first-team reps and performing respectably. Considering Shields, Hayward, Rollins, and Randall are all near locks as well, and throw in the fact that Hyde can play in the slot if needed, we may not have a spot for any of the other CB hopefuls.

Or put Hayward on the watch list, unless he gets, and stays, healthy. Dunno, just a feeling...

[smuggler]

Just my opinion - never seen Hayward play poorly in a real game, but he has looked sluggish in practice. I suspect there is an emphasis on health with him vs practice performance. He's as likely to make the team as anyone else other than Shields. Now, does he get a 2nd contract? On that I'm not as certain...

[hoosier]

Isn't the problem with that scenario that Kuhn is a vested veteran? They have to give him a free skybox and parking space or something if they cut him later?

I doubt Packers would try the cut-and-resign game with Kuhn, I don't remember any longterm Packers getting put on that carousel. I imagine market for FBs is limited, Packers might get away with shinanigans if they wanted.

Yes, I forgot about the contract becoming guaranteed thing, so Kuhn stays for the year as ARod's personal protector.

[Patler]

Isn't the problem with that scenario that Kuhn is a vested veteran? They have to give him a free skybox and parking space or something if they cut him later?

I doubt Packers would try the cut-and-resign game with Kuhn, I don't remember any longterm Packers getting put on that carousel. I imagine market for FBs is limited, Packers might get away with shinanigans if they wanted.

Kuhn signed a veteran minimum contract. I don't think his contract will influence the Packers decisions now or during the season.

[smuggler]

Kuhn's contract actually counts less than a rookie against the salary cap, I believe. Veteran contracts get some kind of whacky rebate. If they're less than $700k then only count like $200k against the cap.

[Patler]

Kuhn's contract actually counts less than a rookie against the salary cap, I believe. Veteran contracts get some kind of whacky rebate. If they're less than $700k then only count like $200k against the cap.

Ya, but there are limits on bonuses and things like that. I think the max is $25K for workouts, or something like that. The Packers have exceeded the bonus with several vets in recent years, so didn't qualify for the vet minimum incentive. I'm not sure about Kuhn.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I didn't suspect money would have much to do with Kuhn decision. My only thought on that was that the team would be unlikely to cut a well-respected, longtime packer so they could sign him off street later with no commitment. Bad karma. Probably Thompson has done this with some journeyman vets, but I can't really remember specific examples.

[smuggler]

With a guy of Kuhn's age and status, if they were going to cut him, they'd have already done it... He's staying for one more year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

With a guy of Kuhn's age and status, if they were going to cut him, they'd have already done it... He's staying for one more year.

But they wouldn't be able to cut him until they put Rip to the test in preseason.

You've created a formula whereby it is impossible to replace an aging vet with a rookie. I don't think that can be true.

[HarveyWallbangers]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Bakhtiari, Sitton, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga, Tretter, Walker, Barclay

DL (6) Daniels, Raji, Boyd, Pennel, Gaston*, Ringo*
LB (9) Peppers, Perry, Neal, Mulumba, Elliott, Matthews, Barrington, Ryan, Palmer
DB (10) Shields, Hayward, Rollins, Randall, Gunter, Goodson, Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Richardson

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

Suspended: Guion, Jones

[smuggler]

Nah, Harlan. The parts of Rips game the mgmt doubt can only be alleviated with more and more time in the film room and with the coaching staff. Kuhn will train his own successor over the course of the season. Then he'll either depart in free agency or retire. See? Possible to replace him even with your screwball logic. :)

[sharpe1027]

I didn't suspect money would have much to do with Kuhn decision. My only thought on that was that the team would be unlikely to cut a well-respected, longtime packer so they could sign him off street later with no commitment. Bad karma. Probably Thompson has done this with some journeyman vets, but I can't really remember specific examples.

I don't think they would do it with the intent of resigning him later. However, if they were to cut him to make room for someone else, I can't see him making another team. It is not exactly the same, but they let Tauscher hit free agency when he was at the tail end of his career. No other team would sign him. That allowed the Packers to sign him several games into the season.

[vince]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Bakhtiari, Sitton, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga, Tretter, Walker, Barclay

DL (6) Daniels, Raji, Boyd, Pennel, Gaston*, Ringo*
LB (9) Peppers, Perry, Neal, Mulumba, Elliott, Matthews, Barrington, Ryan, Palmer
DB (10) Shields, Hayward, Rollins, Randall, Gunter, Goodson, Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Richardson

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

Suspended: Guion, Jones
That has to be really close. I'm not sure Backman and/or Perillo are the 53 best but I see the logic in keeping them on the 53 - especially with the questions surrounding Quarless.

My preference would be to add a LB in place of one of the TE's for greater gameday value - not sure which one yet though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That has to be really close. I'm not sure Backman and/or Perillo are the 53 best but I see the logic in keeping them on the 53 - especially with the questions surrounding Quarless.

My preference would be to add a LB in place of one of the TE's for greater gameday value - not sure which one yet though.

I was going to go with 3 TEs and perhaps Lane Taylor with Bakh's injury and Barclay struggling. That and Goodson vs. Banjo (perhaps even Fanor; not sure how much he is playing special teams) were the two most difficult decisions. Plus, who knows what's going to happen at DL with Guion and Jones out.

[sharpe1027]

That has to be really close. I'm not sure Backman and/or Perillo are the 53 best but I see the logic in keeping them on the 53 - especially with the questions surrounding Quarless.

My preference would be to add a LB in place of one of the TE's for greater gameday value - not sure which one yet though.

Would the last guy to make the team even be active game days?

[vince]

Would the last guy to make the team even be active game days?
If he's playing special teams he would. There are a bunch of guys there who would be inactive candidates that a linebacker TBD may have ST value over - Hundley, Neal, Janis, Backman, Perillo, Walker, Ringo, Gaston, Gunter, Goodson... Depends on health mostly... and we know the history of a large group of our linebacking corps.

[smuggler]

I agree except for Goodson. If he isn't useful or active for ST, I don't see how he makes the squad...

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree except for Goodson. If he isn't useful or active for ST, I don't see how he makes the squad...

I would think he'd need to fill one of the outside gunner roles.

[Bretsky]

QB (3) Rodgers, Tolzien, Hundley
RB (5) Lacy, Starks, Neal, Kuhn, Ripkowski
WR (5) Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Janis
TE (4) Rodgers, Quarless, Backman, Perillo
OL (8) Bakhtiari, Sitton, Linsley, Lang, Bulaga, Tretter, Walker, Barclay

DL (6) Daniels, Raji, Boyd, Pennel, Gaston*, Ringo*
LB (9) Peppers, Perry, Neal, Mulumba, Elliott, Matthews, Barrington, Ryan, Palmer
DB (10) Shields, Hayward, Rollins, Randall, Gunter, Goodson, Burnett, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, Richardson

ST (3) Crosby, Masthay, Goode

Suspended: Guion, Jones



You are probably right; man, that's a whole lot of shit at TE there.

I'm not sure you'd lose that much by cutting all 4. I may like Perillo more than the rest of the muck

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure you'd lose that much by cutting all 4. I may like Perillo more than the rest of the muck

How about we wait to see what Richard Rodgers shows us this year before we cut him before his second season?

[smuggler]

TOO SLOW. Any player that only runs a 4.8 after adding 30 lbs in one offseason is shite and should be cut!

[vince]

I was going to go with 3 TEs and perhaps Lane Taylor with Bakh's injury and Barclay struggling. That and Goodson vs. Banjo (perhaps even Fanor; not sure how much he is playing special teams) were the two most difficult decisions. Plus, who knows what's going to happen at DL with Guion and Jones out.
Yeah Barclay's a huge question mark yet. First game from what I saw (I watched twice and payed specific attention to him the second time.) He's OK moving forward and left run blocking, and anchoring straight up against a bull rush, but he fell hard more than once trying to move right with his bad knee trying to block weak moves around the edge. Moving and turning right with the ACL and big brace didn't go well.

I think he may actually better off at LT where he has help to the inside when he has to move right and stress the rehabbing knee. He might hold up better against edge rushers on the left side than the right. We'll see on Sunday. Barclay's been serviceable pass protecting when he's been 100%. Anything less than that is a problem. As of now, Barclay at RT is a problem.

I'm hoping the guy you have making the cut on the OL - Josh Walker - is a big find. He looks like a marshmallow but he can drive and he also looks like he can pass protect - at least at guard.

I didn't notice when Ted signed him to the practice squad last year but he stuck, now he's a year in and he's getting it done. He's more than holding his own in 1 on 1's (ahead of Tretter, Bakhtiari, Taylor, way ahead of Barclay and all the rest the group fighting to make the team (http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/22060/why-the-1-on-1-drills-are-telling-for-packers-linemen-pass-rushers)) and looked good against the Pats - against 2's and 3's. Not sure if he can play tackle, but he held up far better than Barclay at RT last week.

Keep him around, turn some more of that flab into meat, sick Solari on his ass for a year, and he might be a real keeper. Young, 6'5" 330 with some skills is something to work with. Along with Gunter, he looks like he could be the Cinderella story of camp this year.

Unless Barclay is so far away that he gets cut, I think they should stick with the 8 on the line you listed. Walker's better than Taylor now and he's just getting started. Tretter has far more flexibility to move all around the line, and Taylor can't play Tackle as far as I can tell. Maybe he can make another roster. If he makes this one I think it means someone is hurt. That could be Barclay but it's not good whoever it is.

Similar situation with Banjo. He tries hard but I don't want him making the team. I'll take Goodson, Fanor, Glover-Wright and just about anyone else who plays hard too but also has some defensive upside - even if it's down the road - over Banjo. If he does make the team (the fact that I don't like him guarantees he will), at some point he might actually play safety. Short and slow as the last line of defense isn't the way to go if you can avoid it. Plus, six out of the ten DB's on the roster will have positional flexibility to move in and out of safety roles if needed (Hyde, Rollins and Randall included). These guys can move inside, outside, up, back, they can tackle, make plays on the ball - and they can all play special teams well too.

ST specialist Jarrett Bush just got pretty much banned from the league. 10 games, no contract, can't play D, and aging is too much for a one-hit ST wonder to overcome. Unless you're a young bad-ass torpedo with a future on offense too like Ripkowski, or the next Devin Hester, (hopefully) there's no room on this roster for a special teams specialist with no upside.

No more Banjo.

[Fritz]

Nobody has an All Pro reserve at tackle but it sure does seem shaky behind the starting five.

[pbmax]

An idea whose time has come. Web based roster construction.

http://www.wisinfo.biz/packersroster/build-roster/

[Harlan Huckleby]

The parts of Rips game the mgmt doubt can only be alleviated with more and more time in the film room and with the coaching staff. Kuhn will train his own successor over the course of the season. Then he'll either depart in free agency or retire. See?

Thanks for that explanation. Now I understand why rookies don't replace veterans on the roster. I just thought that perhaps there might be exceptions, but I'll let that go.

I have changed my mind on this, I think Kuhn has about a 75% chance of sticking on the roster. I'd say it is because he is better than the last three guys on the roster, especially the TEs.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nobody has an All Pro reserve at tackle but it sure does seem shaky behind the starting five.

Barclay deserves a couple more weeks to find his sea legs. I doubt the injury made him permanently rotten.

[vince]

Barclay deserves a couple more weeks to find his sea legs. I doubt the injury made him permanently rotten.
Actually, according to this article and the pre-eminent surgeon Dr. James Andrews, it made the area like a baby's again (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/acl-injuries-no-longer-spelling-doom-for-football-careers-1.5335284). The article is a couple years old so if things have changed significantly since then please feel free to correct this. I'm no doctor but I did get stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

The strength, muscle memory, fiber connectivity, and instinctive trust needs to be built back up from nothing. Recovery is now common but not certain, and it can take a year, two years or for some it may never fully recover back to original strength and flexibility.


"They're all different,'' Andrews said. "There's still a big spectrum in how they heal and how they come back . . . It's hard to predict recovery from an ACL surgery, and to say that we're getting them back quicker than we used to would be false information from my standpoint.''

Many don't come back at all. A 2010 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine found that only 63 percent of NFL athletes who had an ACL reconstruction returned to play another game. Roughly two out of three. And two years after ACL surgery, Andrews said, about 55 percent of NFL players are no longer playing in the league. For the majority, an ACL still is pretty synonymous with the end of a career.

"That's the real fact,'' Andrews said. "It's not a good injury to have regardless of how good a job we do.''


Proprioception may be the most important word in returning from an ACL injury. It's the difference between Adrian Peterson and Bulls star point guard Derrick Rose, who has yet to play in a game since tearing his ACL more than a year ago. It is the sense of the relative position of neighboring parts of the body and the effort needed to create movement. In other words, it is what allows an athlete to feel like himself again.

The body must redevelop those fibers into the new ACL through repetitive activity.

"When you tear your ACL and you come back, the game is too fast for you,'' Levitz said. "You're used to seeing a guy [on the field] and your whole body goes that way before you think about it. When you tear your ACL, you have to tell your leg to go that way . . . The muscle loses all its memory when you tear an ACL. You've made a baby again. So you have to teach it.''

For Barclay, it could be a few more weeks or it could be a lot longer. Based on what he showed last game, it looks to me like it could take longer than the next couple weeks for him to FULLY recover, and he's probably not good enough pass protecting on the edge to be less than 100%.

[Harlan Huckleby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27I3AN0XwP8

[Bretsky]

How about we wait to see what Richard Rodgers shows us this year before we cut him before his second season?


Rodgers will probably turn out to be an ok plodder. His hands are good. It would be nice to have a threat there

[pbmax]

Rodgers will probably turn out to be an ok plodder. His hands are good. It would be nice to have a threat there

I'd be happy with red zone threat.

[vince]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27I3AN0XwP8
Just fixing the lights on the tree Cindy Lou.

[Joemailman]

Well, today sure screwed up my roster prediction. Thanks Jordy.

[Fritz]

My bold prediction: Jordy Nelson will not be on the final 53 this year.

And Bretsky, I believe Richard Rodgers will be a very good tight end this year.