JC Tretter - what happened to Mr. Versatile?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I thought JC Tretter was the lean, mean athletic swing man. 6-4 307 is big enough for tackle in a pinch. And with Barclay raising fumes at LT, this is a pinch. Why can't they test Tretter during preseason? It's not like he needs ALL the snaps at center to backup there.

[pbmax]

He is Plan 9.

[Harlan Huckleby]

#9, #9, #9, #9 ......

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't see resemblance

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/PlanNine_05.jpg

[Freak Out]

Revolution number nine.

[HarveyWallbangers]

They tried him at OT last year, and he wasn't very good. He was good at OC, and I suspect he'd be solid at OG.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They tried him at OT last year, and he wasn't very good. He was good at OC, and I suspect he'd be solid at OG.

I remember he struggled, but that is not a washout for a beginning pro. He played TE and tackle in college, is said to be athletic. I'm surprised they don't work with him, get him back up on the horse.

They have plenty of tubby guards. I'm concerned Tretter isn't solid anywhere if he can't play LT better than Barclay has shown there. Barclay is a natural guard, after all.

[Pugger]

He can't be any worse than Barclay is at tackle, can he?

[sharpe1027]

I remember he struggled, but that is not a washout for a beginning pro. He played TE and tackle in college, is said to be athletic. I'm surprised they don't work with him, get him back up on the horse.

They have plenty of tubby guards. I'm concerned Tretter isn't solid anywhere if he can't play LT better than Barclay has shown there. Barclay is a natural guard, after all.

I thought Tretter looked pretty good at center a year ago before he got hurt. If he's able to back up all three inside spots pretty well, that's nothing to complain about. If they do not like him at Tackle, they probably prefer to slide Lang out to one of the tackle spots, in the case of injury.

[smuggler]

He can't be any worse than Barclay is at tackle, can he?

Barclay from two years ago or Barclay from the Steelers game? Because evidently it matters...

[Harlan Huckleby]

I thought Tretter looked pretty good at center a year ago before he got hurt. If he's able to back up all three inside spots pretty well, that's nothing to complain about.

I doubt he is powerful enough to be much of a guard. I'd guess the spot other than center where he might be most serviceable would be LT. They already have Tayler, Walker, Barclay who are natural backups at guard.

McGinn suggests Walker will be the swing man to backup all 4 guard-tackle spots.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/josh-walker-emerging-as-go-to-backup-offensive-lineman-b99565345z1-323174301.html

JC Tretter is a very good backup at center. Guess he and Walker will be active every week.

Wish Walker was starter at LT tomorrow. Or better yet, Bulaga.

[sharpe1027]

IDK, HH. He was practicing as a guard before they converted him to center.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Well, Tretter's big skill last year (according to Larry McCarren) was that he was very athletic, good at "reach blocks" and getting out on linebackers. He is a natural center, although a bit light in the butt. Guy was a TE for two years of college. I'm reminded of Flanagan, another lean/tallish center who did some rough time at LT.

Maybe Tretter has put on some weight and can play guard.

[sharpe1027]

Well, Tretter's big skill last year (according to Larry McCarren) was that he was very athletic, good at "reach blocks" and getting out on linebackers. He is a natural center, although a bit light in the butt. Guy was a TE for two years of college. I'm reminded of Flanagan, another lean/tallish center who did some rough time at LT.

Maybe Tretter has put on some weight and can play guard.

Yeah, I am not really disagreeing with you. He doesn't look like starting guard material. I just think he is probably OK as a backup guard.

[bobblehead]

307 Lbs is tiny for a LT in the NFL.

[mraynrand]

307 Lbs is tiny for a LT in the NFL.

So what? 0 pounds is far far less, and that's how much Barclay effectively weights when he whiffs on a block. AS a LT, if you at least move your feet, stay on your feet and interpose yourself between the rusher and the QB, there's a chance the play gets off, and a far better chance the QB doesn't end up in a meat grinder.

[Joemailman]

Tretter weighs 5 pounds less than Joe Thomas who is 3 inches taller. D'Brick Gerguson is 310. 307 is heavy enough if you can play.

[Fritz]

He is Plan 9.


From Outer Space.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see no logic in putting Barclay back out there at LT, he clearly is incapable. If Walker truly is the future at backup LT, give him the work. The team has very capable orthopedic surgeons to piece Hundley back together for 2016 - IR would be just the ticket. They have options other than Walker at guard - if Tretter can't fill-in at guard for a preseason game then cut his ass.

If Bulaga rather than Walker is the backup LT, then give Bulaga the work at LT tomorrow. He won't forget how to play RT.

It's obvious that I need to take charge here.

[Joemailman]

The fact that Bulaga hasn't played LT yet probably means they expect Bakhtiari back for the opener.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The fact that Bulaga hasn't played LT yet probably means they expect Bakhtiari back for the opener.

Ya, I'm sure they do, but shouldn't they give the LT start to the backup LT, whoever that is, to give him some solid reps in case he is needed later in season?

[hoosier]

Because Bulaga broke last time they put him at LT and they don't want to screw around with the unit that will keep Rodgers healthy and thus be the key to the Packers offensive success this year. Bulaga plays his two series at RT and then goes to the bench. Barclay gets to go out to LT and get beaten like a gong until he either gets his feet under himself and his mind right or loses whatever confidence he has left.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Because Bulaga broke last time they put him at LT and they don't want to screw around with the unit that will keep Rodgers healthy

There is no unit to not screw around with. It is a makeshift line.

I guess they are putting Barclay out there because they think he may yet come around and be the backup LT for 2016. Only thing that makes sense.

[pbmax]

Part of the reason Barclay is getting Act 2 is that one of his replacements is starting at Guard for Lang (Walker).

[Harlan Huckleby]

Part of the reason Barclay is getting Act 2 is that one of his replacements is starting at Guard for Lang (Walker).


Perhaps Tretter is not much of an option at guard, or they'd use Walker at LT.

We really need to get James Campen in here, he's got some splainin to do.

[mraynrand]

There is no unit to not screw around with. It is a makeshift line.

The starting line is not 'makeshift' and there's no 'screwing around' going on. Bacteria, Lang and Sitton are all expected to start. What's 'makeshift' is the line with three starters out, which is reality for most teams. Packers of course have to be shitting their pants to see Barclay play worse than Marshmallow Outhouse. The answer is not to start 'screwing around' with other positions that are pretty well set. They need an alternative to Barclay as backup LT. What is it? I don't know. Need to figure it out without getting QBs killed.

[smuggler]

Bulaga is the backup to Bakhtiari at LT

[mraynrand]

Bulaga is the backup to Bakhtiari at LT

That's what I understood from the depth chart, etc. (Bact goes out, Bulaga goes LT, Barc goes RT - or some other sequence that has an interior guy going to RT?). But in practice then, shouldn't they have shifted Bulaga there in preseason? I must have missed something (I'm not following as closely as I used to). Why did they go with Barclay at LT when Bact went out?

[pbmax]

Perhaps Tretter is not much of an option at guard, or they'd use Walker at LT.

We really need to get James Campen in here, he's got some splainin to do.

Actually, the non use of Tretter at Guard is pretty interesting. Its not like he has a ton of experience there. Taylor has as much at this point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

That's what I understood from the depth chart, etc. (Bact goes out, Bulaga goes LT, Barc goes RT - or some other sequence that has an interior guy going to RT?). But in practice then, shouldn't they have shifted Bulaga there in preseason?

That's my point. It really is puzzling that they don't give Bulaga some reps at LT if he is indeed the backup LT. The line for tonight is already a complete clusterfuck, there is no unit continuity to break-up.

When there are 3 guys hurt and Tretter can't get on field, it seems his stock has really fallen. Or perhaps they just want to test Taylor & Walker.

Confusing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Barclay was better yesterday. I think the Packers played him so much yesterday because Packers still hope he will be primary backup, including at LT, against all fan expectations.

I saw Tretter whiff on the one play I noticed him at guard. Don't know about Tretter. Maybe he will be NFL starter somewhere, someday at C, but he is disappointment as flexible backup.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Barclay was better yesterday. I think the Packers played him so much yesterday because Packers still hope he will be primary backup, including at LT, against all fan expectations.

I saw Tretter whiff on the one play I noticed him at guard. Don't know about Tretter. Maybe he will be NFL starter somewhere, someday at C, but he is disappointment as flexible backup.

According to a report I read, he played better but not much. PFF gave him a -3 on the game. That brings him to -12 for three preseason games. Unless Barclay turns it around in next week's game, they may go Bulaga, Sitton, Linsley, Lang, Walker if Bakh is out with an injury. Walker looks very serviceable at RT to me.

[KYPack]

Isn't Lang on concussion protocol?

[Joemailman]

Isn't Lang on concussion protocol?

Yes, but I think he was on the sideline last night. So he's probably about ready to come back.

[pbmax]

Isn't Lang on concussion protocol?

M3 said in his last briefing that Lang was coming back sooner rather than later, essentially.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Mcginn thinks Barclay is backup LT for season, wishes it was Walker.


Barring a change Thursday night against New Orleans, the Packers obviously intend to keep Don Barclay and start him at left tackle if David Bakhtiari's balky knee sidelines him for the opener or beyond.

Walker wasn't quite as sharp in a 68-snap stint (10 at right guard, 58 at right tackle) as he was in the first two games, which was to be expected given his exposure against starters. He allowed two hurries, and a tough grader might have given him a minus on four runs.

Still, there wasn't reason to come off Walker as the best backup option at every spot except center.

Barclay (34 snaps at left tackle, 12 at left guard) was more respectable in this game, with three minus plays for pass and three for run. He gives no quarter and will never stop battling, but shortcomings remain evident.

Probably outperforming both Walker and Barclay was Lane Taylor, who made the start at left guard and had just two minuses in 34 plays.http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-casey-hayward-fails-to-impress-at-cornerback-b99565722z1-323393111.html

Bulaga appears to be chained to RT spot in any scenario, as long as he can walk.

[smuggler]

I think they're just sniffing guys out. If Bakhtiari goes down, Bulaga will shift over, if healthy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think they're just sniffing guys out. If Bakhtiari goew down, Bulaga will shift over, if healthy.They would have given him some work at LT, put Barclay at RT, if that were true.

[pbmax]

They would have given him some work at LT, put Barclay at RT, if that were true.

I think that has happened before. Didn't both College and Lang get sent over to LT without practice?

They may not have been the first backup choice.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think that has happened before. Didn't both College and Lang get sent over to LT without practice?

They may not have been the first backup choice.

Sure, guys get thrown out of position midseason all the time due to emergency.

But when your LT is down most of preseason, and especially when it is not certain he'll be ready for first game, whoever is a candidate to play LT will get some game time there. The Packers are clearly confident that Barclay is improving and will be the LT backup, despite overwhelming fan opinion that Bulaga should go there. And McGinn opinion that Walker should be the guy.

[Patler]

Well, either Bakhtiari will be back there in the last preseason game, or the guy who will start in his place will be. Could be Bulaga. Until now they have been looking at other options. If it comes down to Bulaga, I don't think he will need a lot of time to get ready. I don't think it matters a lot who has been there so far.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Well, either Bakhtiari will be back there in the last preseason game, or the guy who will start in his place will be. Could be Bulaga.

That does not contradict what McGinn said.


Barring a change Thursday night against New Orleans, the Packers obviously intend to keep Don Barclay and start him at left tackle

We'll see Thursday. Actually we'll know tomorrow by who lines-up with #1s in practice.

[Harlan Huckleby]

All three starters returned to practice today.
MM may never state clearly who the backup LT is.

The guy who follows Bakhtiari Thursday, if Bak plays at all, is probably the guy.

[Joemailman]

All three starters returned to practice today.
MM may never state clearly who the backup LT is.

The guy who follows Bakhtiari Thursday, if Bak plays at all, is probably the guy.

I don't think Bakh will play at all. The fact that they haven't had Bulaga play LT at all probably means that they expect Bakh to be ready for opening day.

[bobblehead]

Tretter weighs 5 pounds less than Joe Thomas who is 3 inches taller. D'Brick Gerguson is 310. 307 is heavy enough if you can play.

So Joe Thomas weighs exactly as he did at Wisconsin? I don't buy it. JT weighs at least 330 now.

[Joemailman]

So Joe Thomas weighs exactly as he did at Wisconsin? I don't buy it. JT weighs at least 330 now.

I have no way of knowing. I'm just going by the Browns official roster. Sometimes linemen as they get older take off weight to maintain quickness. Raji weighs less now than when the Packers drafted him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think Bakh will play at all. The fact that they haven't had Bulaga play LT at all probably means that they expect Bakh to be ready for opening day.

I don't see the connection. They still have to test and prepare the backup LT. Bak could get hurt at any time. If they play Barclay there Thursday, the only reasonable explanation is that he has the job. Otherwise they'd give the real backup LT some meaningful snaps. Why not add that preparation? What other purpose would there be in giving Barclay all the preseason meaningful work at that position?

[Joemailman]

I don't see the connection. They still have to test and prepare the backup LT. Bak could get hurt at any time. If they play Barclay there Thursday, the only reasonable explanation is that he has the job. Otherwise they'd give the real backup LT some meaningful snaps. Why not add that preparation? What other purpose would there be in giving Barclay all the preseason meaningful work at that position?

They might be playing Barclay there because he needs the reps. I wouldn't be surprised if Barclay plays both T positions Thursday night. You have to protect the QB's blind side. If Bakh can't go at some point, I think they'll put their best T there. I think that's Bulaga.

[esoxx]

I don't see the connection. They still have to test and prepare the backup LT. Bak could get hurt at any time. If they play Barclay there Thursday, the only reasonable explanation is that he has the job. Otherwise they'd give the real backup LT some meaningful snaps. Why not add that preparation? What other purpose would there be in giving Barclay all the preseason meaningful work at that position?

Because they don't want to risk their starting RT mopping up against 2nd & 3rd string chattel at LT?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree it makes much more sense to move Bulaga to LT, he is taller and better.

But if that is the case, why would they play Barclay so extensively at LT? He has close to zero chance of ever being used in a game there if he is indeed third in line. You'd think they would have played Bulaga at LT, Barclay at RT, when Bakh went down.

It is strictly the coaches choices that lead me to believe they hope to use Barclay as backup. They see things up close, may see the situation differently than us.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Because they don't want to risk their starting RT mopping up against 2nd & 3rd string chattel at LT?

OK, I get why Barclay spent some time at LT. But they were playing Bulaga at RT, Barclay at LT. Curious.

[esoxx]

This is where 2011 1st round bust Sherrod bites them in the ass. If he had been even serviceable at LT Barclay wouldn't even sniff that position.

[Patler]

Back to your original question about Tretter, apparently he had reps at LT yesterday.

Per the GBPG:


• Tretter, who primarily plays center and occasionally works at guard, took a few snaps at left tackle with the backup offense. That suggests he might get a few snaps there Thursday against New Orleans as preparation for emergency duty.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/09/01/insider-thumbs-up-rodgers-down-gerhart/71519134/

[bobblehead]

I have no way of knowing. I'm just going by the Browns official roster. Sometimes linemen as they get older take off weight to maintain quickness. Raji weighs less now than when the Packers drafted him.

LT's need the anchor against the bull rush. I would doubt if there is a LT in the NFL who weighs under 320 and that would likely be a stretch. DL can get away with being a bit leaner and use more quickness. Its just really tough for a LT to be light. If you are a drive blocking guard you can weigh 295. The lateral movement and then anchor isn't necessary for guards. Tackles...especially Left tackles are best off being massive. Its the reason I wanted Sherrod to find his footwork so badly. He had the body for it. Even Bacteria is slightly undersized for the position.

[pbmax]

Anyone know what arms Josh Walker has? I thought he was a Tweener like Lang and Bach, but he is 6' 5" and 328. That's not bad for a tackle.

[Patler]

Anyone know what arms Josh Walker has?

I've heard they are Walker arms, one left and one right. Sort of a matching pair.

Sorry, pb; this one always gets me as writers obsess over differences of 1/2" or so.

[Carolina_Packer]

After reading this article, and his comments, I think I like this kid's attitude. http://www.channel3000.com/sports/packers/josh-walker-may-have-earned-a-spot-on-the-packers-roster/35031842 I hope he makes the team. He seems more versatile than Lane Taylor, anyway.

[Harlan Huckleby]

McGinn reports that starting line for tomorrow will have Vujnovich at LT, Barclay at RT.

All five starters are expected to sit Thursday night in the exhibition finale against New Orleans.

Expected to start, from left to right, are Jeremy Vujnovich, Lane Taylor, JC Tretter, Josh Walker and Don Barclay. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/matt-blanchard-among-five-players-cut-by-packers-b99568222z1-323810601.html

This might suggest that Barclay didn't win the LT backup job. Or maybe it was just the way to get their top 5 backups on the field.

I wonder if Vujnovich has outside shot at roster spot; his pass blocking at LT last week was reportedly pretty good. Probably not, 10 is too many. One or two starters from tonight are likely cut.

[sharpe1027]

Anyone know what arms Josh Walker has?

No, but I heard that Jordy Nelson has a knee.

[pbmax]

OK fine, ya bunch of jokesters. I'll look it up myself.

33 1/2" ARM LENGTH, 9" HANDS and NFL.com says he is 6' 6"

Either that means Guard or putting cotton in the top of pill bottles.

[pbmax]

Not, but I heard that Jordy Nelson has a knee.

But that knee is missing a part or two.

[sharpe1027]

But that knee is missing a part or two.

Technically, I think it is all there, but a few connections are loose.

[pbmax]

Walker, at NFL.com by Nolan Nawrocki

STRENGTHS Big-bodied, thickly built, power-based blocker with the sheer size to cover up defenders in the run game. Flashes shock in his punch and can drop his hips and anchor vs. massive wide bodies. Solid positional pro day workout. Plays with balance. Tough, smart and durable. Team captain.

WEAKNESSES Has tight ankles, and mechanics break down the farther he has to travel. Limited pulling and reaching a moving target. Gives up the edges too easily and could do a better job controlling defenders. Tends to bend at the waist too much.

a. I doubt Nolan has any idea what tight ankles would mean for a football player. Just describe the movement that he is limited by.

b. So he can sink his hips but he is a waist bender. Can we get the frequency of each?

These reports are the babbling of the nearly unemployed. If he could draw a paycheck by saying it, Nawrocki would write that Walker is possessed by the soul of Dan Fike.

[pbmax]

Technically, I think it is all there, but a few connections are loose.


Fair point. Kinda shorted out.

[Patler]

OK fine, ya bunch of jokesters. I'll look it up myself.

33 1/2" ARM LENGTH, 9" HANDS and NFL.com says he is 6' 6"

Either that means Guard or putting cotton in the top of pill bottles.

So, are those arms long, or short?
If the arms are short, but at 6'6" he is certainly tall, does he have "length" as they use the term to describe OL? After all, short guys with long arms are said to lack desired "length".

I like tall and short, thin and fat, smart and dumb; terms I understand.

[pbmax]

Those arms are shorter than most tackles, but not T-Rex short.

He is big and tall, so he probably has an impressive wingspan which helps catch the pass rusher. But in a straight on bull rush charge, where arms are out front, his would be on the short side. Though not on the short side on the Packers.

Lang 32 3/4
Bach 34
Sitton 33 5/8
Bulaga 33 1/4"
Linsley 32"

Clifton 33"
Tauscher Did not possess arms that could be measured
Joe Thomas 32 1/2

Lots of numbers here: http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/4/9/8353255/broncos-2015-draft-arm-length-and-the-offensive-line

[Patler]

Those arms are shorter than most tackles, but not T-Rex short.

He is big and tall, so he probably has an impressive wingspan which helps catch the pass rusher. But in a straight on bull rush charge, where arms are out front, his would be on the short side. Though not on the short side on the Packers.

Lang 32 3/4
Bach 34
Sitton 33 5/8
Bulaga 33 1/4"
Linsley 32"

Clifton 33"
Tauscher Did not possess arms that could be measured
Joe Thomas 32 1/2

Lots of numbers here: http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/4/9/8353255/broncos-2015-draft-arm-length-and-the-offensive-line

I remember when Bulaga was drafted, and one of the genius writers asked him if he was concerned that his arms were too short? He said he didn't know, because he had always played with them that way!

[Joemailman]

I remember when Bulaga was drafted, and one of the genius writers asked him if he was concerned that his arms were too short? He said he didn't know, because he had always played with them that way!

MM was once asked about Bulaga's "short" arms. He said he had never seen a guy who couldn't play Tackle because his arms were too short, but he saw plenty of guys who couldn't play Tackle because their feet were too slow.

[pbmax]

MM was once asked about Bulaga's "short" arms. He said he had never seen a guy who couldn't play Tackle because his arms were too short, but he saw plenty of guys who couldn't play Tackle because their feet were too slow.

Moving and adjusting his feet were one of the knocks on Walker, which is why scouts had him on the interior.

[bobblehead]

I've heard they are Walker arms, one left and one right. Sort of a matching pair.

Sorry, pb; this one always gets me as writers obsess over differences of 1/2" or so.

It matters...but only if the guy is a decent tackle as well. Otherwise there would be a lot of NBA players lining up at LT. It matters for the punch. It matters for locking a guy out from you so he can't get his hands on you. Cameron Wake has that awesome karate move to knock hands off of his chest. Without it the mammoth tackles lock you out there and control you. See Ogden, Jonathon.

[Patler]

It matters...but only if the guy is a decent tackle as well. Otherwise there would be a lot of NBA players lining up at LT. It matters for the punch. It matters for locking a guy out from you so he can't get his hands on you. Cameron Wake has that awesome karate move to knock hands off of his chest. Without it the mammoth tackles lock you out there and control you. See Ogden, Jonathon.

Sorry, I can't buy that a half inch makes a darn bit of difference.

[pbmax]

Sorry, I can't buy that a half inch makes a darn bit of difference.

What makes you think they are worried about a half inch?

And why would arm length be different than a height floor for a CB?

[Patler]

What makes you think they are worried about a half inch?

And why would arm length be different than a height floor for a CB?

We had a good example of it a year ago or so when one of the writers was discussing draft picks , and described one as having arms too short to be a tackle, and another being a good tackle prospect because of the length of his arms, and the difference was something like 5/8". Before I mostly ignored those comments, but when a writer obsesses over it so much that one prospect was a zero and the other a good prospect at tackle just because of his arm length, I decided to pick up the fight. Some writers are obsessed with arm length. They talk about it all the time and more than other things. If they measured how far forward a player can reach, rather than just the length of his arms, I might think it a more worthy factor, but not determinative, either.

While I think the difference between a 6' CB and one 5'9" is wroth considering, I don't think 5'11 vs 5'11/2" is worth worrying about at all.