WEEK 1 NFL GAME THREAD - Other Games

[smuggler]

Football is officially here again! Huzzah! May all rapists and cheaters suffer the agony of failure, in one form or another.

[smuggler]

Alvin Dupree with an unblocked sack of Brady on a busted screen to end the Patriot's first drive. One play after Brady overshoots Amendola for a wide open 48yd TD.

[Guiness]

Heyward-Bey with a nice back shoulder catch. Is it possible he can play with a decent QB back there? He sure didn't do enough in Oakland to merit his draft status.

[King Friday]

Tom Brady is clearly pissed off and ready to ass rape everyone on the schedule.

[denverYooper]

Tom Brady is clearly pissed off and ready to ass rape everyone on the schedule.

Yea. He can never catch a break. I can see why he's mad.

[pbmax]

DHB with two small demonstrations of why he stinks.

[pbmax]

Yea. He can never catch a break. I can see why he's mad.

Bradycism.

[denverYooper]

Pittsburgh's cost themselves 10 points.

[smuggler]

Tom Brady is clearly pissed off and ready to ass rape everyone on the schedule.

I'm sure we were all already confident he could play reasonably well against teams that don't pressure him whatsoever and leave Gronk uncovered in the red zone.

[pbmax]

@AP_NFL: Steelers coaches mad during first half that headsets weren't working properly. The Latest: http://t.co/y0LqeQYHxZ #PITvsNE

[King Friday]

New England's defense is stinky...Pittsburgh has shot themselves in the foot, it hasn't been anything the Pats have done.

[denverYooper]

DHB with two small demonstrations of why he stinks.

So much physical talent. So little awareness.

It's like The Genie in Aladdin: Phenomenal Cosmic Powers, itty-bitty living space.

[King Friday]

Pats defense going to let Pitt back into this game.

[smuggler]

The Patriot defense looks a lot more vulnerable without Revis.

[pbmax]

The Patriot defense looks a lot more vulnerable without Revis.

Yeah. They are doing a lot of doubling and the singled guy is open. And no pass rush.

[denverYooper]

The Patriot defense looks a lot more vulnerable without Revis.

And Wilfork.

[pbmax]

Dear Pittsburgh D,

Watch out for 87. He's good.

Sincerely,

Everyone else watching football

[King Friday]

I'm not sure how a guy as big as Gronk is continually left uncovered by the Steelers.

[pbmax]

Not at TD on fumble recovery.

[King Friday]

Nope...no TD there. They are 1 foot out.

[King Friday]

Well, I can't complain...I have Brady on my fantasy team this year. haha

[Guiness]

So many uncovered receivers for both teams.

And speaking of stinky, DHB was doing nothing to help on what was pretty much a game ending INT.

[smuggler]

Roethlisberger deserved that one. Nothing DHB could have done would have broken it up. Just a dumb throw.

[pbmax]

DHB did just about curl up and die before getting a first down earlier. But not sure he could have gotten back to that INT. Maybe fight back through DB and get flag like Miller did in end zone.

However, mostly it was Big Ben getting fooled by a single high safety who was weakside but rolled coverage over to playside just before the snap. Ben never saw him coming and lofted it for jump ball to DHB.

[pbmax]

@AP_NFL: Steelers coaches mad during first half that headsets weren't working properly. The Latest: http://t.co/y0LqeQYHxZ #PITvsNE

Steelers coaches say they were hearing Patriots radio in headsets (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/10/steelers-coaches-say-they-were-hearing-patriots-radio-in-headsets/)


League security chief Jeff Miller was shown on the sidelines asking questions, and it didn’t look like they were about the Ideal Gas Law.

UPDATE 9:16 p.m. ET: According to Michele Tafoya, the Patriots headsets were taken down while league officials checked into it, and the issue was apparently resolved quickly.

Report from AP was time stamped 9:25 so their info might be more detailed.

[pbmax]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 12m12 minutes ago
Tomlin clearly pissed over radio communication. Says it happens all the time in that building. Put it on NE. @AriF44

SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL
Patriots do not control the headsets. The NFL does. I once had a woman from the concession stand in my headsets at Fed EX field. - Mills

[smuggler]

Welp

[pbmax]

Steelers double down on the charge that the Patriots were responsible for the outage.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/steelers-website-makes-strong-claim-about-headsetgate/


“This is the kind of stuff that happens to the visiting team in Gillette Stadium all the time,” the article said. “From the start of the game through the opening 14 minutes of the first quarter, the Steelers’ coaches’ headsets were receiving the Patriots Radio Network broadcast of the game. The broadcast was so loud that the Steelers coaches were unable to communicate, and the NFL rule is that if one team’s headsets are not working the other team is supposed to be forced to take their headsets off. It’s what the NFL calls the Equity Rule. Strangely enough, whenever an NFL representative proceeded to the New England sideline to shut down their headsets, the Steelers headsets cleared. Then as the representative walked away from the New England sideline, the Steelers’ headsets again started to receive the Patriots game broadcast.”

Original article here: http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Steelers-come-up-short-vs-Pats-28-21/ad8bc9f4-cbe1-4730-ac8d-e9e9aee21c5f

[Cheesehead Craig]

Why don't teams simply use a recording device on a set of headsets and submit that to the league if it happens so much. Get some documented proof.

[Pugger]

Does this kind of crap happen in other stadiums or only in NE?

[Zool]

Hear on the radio this morning, the Steelers are saying that everytime the NFL official would go over and ask the Patriots to take their headsets off to equalize the teams resources, the problem with the Steelers headsets would go away. Then it would start again a couple minutes later.

[smuggler]

Belichick and Brady doubling down on the 'gamesmanship'. Well played.

[pbmax]

Does this kind of crap happen in other stadiums or only in NE?

Has happened a lot, everywhere. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headset-issues-have-arisen-in-pittsburgh-too/

[sharpe1027]

It would not be difficult for the NFL to release an statement to explain the technical problem that occurred and clear the air. That is assuming it was merely an unintentional problem. Yet, they are not doing so.

[sharpe1027]

Has happened a lot, everywhere. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/headset-issues-have-arisen-in-pittsburgh-too/

Yeah, but cutting out of communications is different that somehow getting a completely unrelated feed. The headsets are encrypted, so it would be interesting to hear the explanation for how the broadcast feed got into the channel and was still understandable.

[pbmax]

Yeah, but cutting out of communications is different that somehow getting a completely unrelated feed. The headsets are encrypted, so it would be interesting to hear the explanation for how the broadcast feed got into the channel and was still understandable.

Cross talk has happened forever. Not sure how encryption enters into that. http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/05/sports/sp-nflfeature5

NFL did release a statement: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/09/11/new-england-headsets-pittsburgh-steelers-bill-belichick-mike-tomlin/72049514/

Stadim infrastructure. Patriots also saying they got radio signal.

[pbmax]

Andrew Perloff ‏@andrewperloff 7m7 minutes ago
Tony Dungy says he never had headset issues in NE. But it is common in the NFL. "It happens in a lot of stadiums. It happens all the time."

[sharpe1027]

stadium power infrastructure issue, which was exacerbated by the inclement weather

I would love to hear the technical explanation for how the stadium power infrastructure and inclement weather can cause this to happen. I guess somehow the stadium power infrastructure is acting as an antenna for the radio broadcast and the weather plays a role too? Then, the NFL's communications are such that they convert the unencrypted radio broadcast into audio that is transmitted to the headsets?

They must be using technology based off of the novelty crystal radio sets from the 60s.

[sharpe1027]

SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL
Patriots do not control the headsets. The NFL does. I once had a woman from the concession stand in my headsets at Fed EX field. - Mills


In fact, the NFL’s own Gameday Policy Manual states:
Home clubs are responsible for the installation and maintenance of the coaching staff communications infrastructure.



http://deadspin.com/what-exactly-happened-with-the-steelers-headsets-1730005682

The plot thickens! Dom, Dom, Dom!


Reports emerged while the game was still ongoing that pointed to a “grounding issue.” That makes sense when considering the NFL’s “power infrastructure” statement, but it doesn’t make sense given what we know about the NFL’s wireless communication technology.


We’re not sure how to reconcile the NFL’s explanation with their own requirements, unless the Patriots specifically have a noncompliant visitors’ coaching booth.

[Bossman641]

I was always under the impression that the home team supplied the headsets. The NFL supplies them instead?

[pbmax]

I was always under the impression that the home team supplied the headsets. The NFL supplies them instead?

Yes. It used to be the job of the home team but that was switched because of complaints about this exact kind of malfunction.

However, we have seen how well the NFL oversees sections of its operations.

So how much of a handle they have over the infrastructure is probably an open question. Remember the Saints were thought to have piped the opposing teams' wireless into the Owner's box for Mickey Loomis to listen too. They investigated it (for some reason the police or Feds were involved I seem to remember) but didn't find anything. But no one thought it was technically impossible.

Its likely that the NFL has rules about how it inspects and operates on Game Day. The Patriots (and everyone else knows this) so its possible for teams to hack it. Problem here is that if the visiting team has a malfunction, they should just turn it off for both teams that half. If possible (and its not the 2nd half) fix it and turn back on after halftime.

Either it all works or its off. If the Steelers are to be believed (I do not take that for granted at all) then the League puts itself in the position of getting played like Klink versus Hogan.

[Guiness]

The plot thickens! Dom, Dom, Dom!

What does the Packer's DC have to do with headsets at the Patriot's stadium??? nyuk nyuk nyuk

Pretty sure Deadspin is correct, you don't get cross-talk in an all-digital system. Transmission interference, but not cross-talk. Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours. New digital spread spectrum phones can't accidentally piece together all the parts of a different broadcast.

Deadspin is being a little over-dramatic with their comment that improper grounding of a wireless system is putting people at danger from a power surge or lightning strike though.

So I'm guessing what the NFL really mean is the system is 'mostly digital'. Not surprising, they have no reason do divulge what they're doing, and being misleading is what they do. PB is so right when he says the NFL is like a bunch of kindergartners running a billion dollar show.

[sharpe1027]

I was always under the impression that the home team supplied the headsets. The NFL supplies them instead?

The home clubs are responsible for the installation and maintenance of the coaching staff communications infrastructure. In other words, the home team controls all the stuff that allows the headsets to communicate. This is just as important as the headsets, probably more important from a security/integrity standpoint.

[sharpe1027]

Problem here is that if the visiting team has a malfunction, they should just turn it off for both teams that half. If possible (and its not the 2nd half) fix it and turn back on after halftime.

Either it all works or its off. If the Steelers are to be believed (I do not take that for granted at all) then the League puts itself in the position of getting played like Klink versus Hogan.

Sure, but that can still be an advantage if the home team has a loud crowd, or if (conspiracy!) they had had been preparing all week for not using headsets in anticipation of there being a problem...

[mraynrand]

W Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours.

This probably explains why my engineer neighbor hated me. Well, hated me even more.

[sharpe1027]

Pretty sure Deadspin is correct, you don't get cross-talk in an all-digital system. Transmission interference, but not cross-talk. Remember the old first gen 800Mhz cordless phones? They were analog, unplug your base set, and listen to the neighbors. Sometimes even if your base set was powered you could hear them if their transmitter was better and overpowered yours. New digital spread spectrum phones can't accidentally piece together all the parts of a different broadcast.


Technically, you could have cross-talk in an all-digital system, assuming that the interfering transmission used the exact same protocol and the protocol was overly simplistic/dumb. Most digital systems are designed with at least some intelligence to prevent that from happening (e.g., at least verifying the source). I doubt that is what happened here, particularly since the wireless feed is supposed to be encrypted.

[Guiness]

Technically, you could have cross-talk in an all-digital system, assuming that the interfering transmission used the exact same protocol and the protocol was overly simplistic/dumb. Most digital systems are designed with at least some intelligence to prevent that from happening (e.g., at least verifying the source). I doubt that is what happened here, particularly since the wireless feed is supposed to be encrypted.

The claim is milspec encryption to boot, no way in hell is cross-talk possible on that system.

Cross-talk in a digital system? I don't know, possible I guess. But I'd guess not accidentally, you'd have to work at inserting data in the stream. I'm inclined to think Deadspin's guess that the broadcast booth and the visitor coach's booth were never upgraded from the old Telex system they used to use everywhere, and the interference got into the system at the source, before it was converted to a digital signal.

[sharpe1027]

The claim is milspec encryption to boot, no way in hell is cross-talk possible on that system.

Cross-talk in a digital system? I don't know, possible I guess. But I'd guess not accidentally, you'd have to work at inserting data in the stream. I'm inclined to think Deadspin's guess that the broadcast booth and the visitor coach's booth were never upgraded from the old Telex system they used to use everywhere, and the interference got into the system at the source, before it was converted to a digital signal.

For sure. I was just saying it is technically possible, extremely unlikely and not what happened here, but you can come up with situations it could happen.

[Guiness]

For sure. I was just saying it is technically possible, extremely unlikely and not what happened here, but you can come up with situations it could happen.

Anything can happen - I've seen touch control lamps cause interference with HAM radios. :whaa:
Was it Confucius that said "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"? :bang:

[Cheesehead Craig]

Maybe the headsets weren't inflated properly.

[Patler]

Was it Confucius that said "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"? :bang:

I'm sure the Patriots don't do this intentionally with malice in their hearts, nor do they do it out of stupidity.
I suspect they do it intentionally out of arrogance bolstered by the knowledge that the worst punishment they would receive if caught would be insignificant.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe the headsets weren't inflated properly.

http://www.wernermkt.com/images/MN600.jpg

[smuggler]

I think the simplest solution is that the Pats were doing it as a 'Fuck You' to the league. I doubt there's much of a chance we'll find out for sure.

[Fritz]

I think the simplest solution is that the Pats were doing it as a 'Fuck You' to the league. I doubt there's much of a chance we'll find out for sure.


Sure we will. Then Goodell will bungle the investigation, butcher the punishment phase, and the Pats will appeal and win.

[Pugger]

http://www.wernermkt.com/images/MN600.jpg

:lol:

[pbmax]

That Deadspin article covers one way the "all-digital" and encrypted system could be interfered with by outside analog signals and interference from the electrical infrastructure:


Assume the Gillette Stadium visitors’ coaching booth utilizes an analog headset amplifier—commonly called a Telex box, after the best known manufacturer of them—and that Telex box suffered from either faulty construction or poor electrical grounding in the booth. The Patriots’ radio booth too featured a mixer or other device with faulty construction (or the booth was improperly grounded). That would provide a path for the radio audio to get into the Telex box, and thus into the Steelers’ communication system. That’s the simplest explanation, albeit the one that implicates the Patriots (or their electricians) as possibly exposing people to millions of volts of electricity in the circumstance of a lightning strike or power surge.

If wireless coverage is an issue in the stadium for the coaches system and bandwidth is getting squeezed, I can see the league using the hybrid solution to ensure functionality upstairs while keeping the rest of the system as specified earlier. There are specs to eliminate interference and put the whole think on its own electrical circuit, but a grounding issue could easily subvert that.

[Guiness]

The Steelers/Tomlin have decided not to file a complaint.

I find that interesting. Was Tomlin's tirade anywhere near accurate? It conflicts quite a bit with the official NFL position that there were a few problems in the first quarter that were cleared right up.

pb - from your post I'm not sure if you realize it or not, and my earlier post was not clear...the example of Telex boxes that could cause the problem are analog devices. Both the broadcast and coach's system would have to have one, or another analog device in order for this to happen. I think that's why you put "all-digital" in quotes.

[pbmax]

pb - from your post I'm not sure if you realize it or not, and my earlier post was not clear...the example of Telex boxes that could cause the problem are analog devices. Both the broadcast and coach's system would have to have one, or another analog device in order for this to happen. I think that's why you put "all-digital" in quotes.

Nope, that was my bad. Somehow I missed your post. I agree with you that if the NFL explanation holds any water that the hybrid analog/digital system is the culprit.

Then the only question is why is part of it still analog? Wireless shortcoming with a retrofit (my guess) or legacy equipment (you and Deadspin). Many people presume wired to be not as vulnerable as wireless signals, so I can see the NFL boasting about military spec encryption while keeping the old system around to reduce costs.

[Guiness]

Nope, that was my bad. Somehow I missed your post. I agree with you that if the NFL explanation holds any water that the hybrid analog/digital system is the culprit.

Then the only question is why is part of it still analog? Wireless shortcoming with a retrofit (my guess) or legacy equipment (you and Deadspin). Many people presume wired to be not as vulnerable as wireless signals, so I can see the NFL boasting about military spec encryption while keeping the old system around to reduce costs.

What do you mean by wireless shortcomings? Are you talking about the bandwidth issue that was mentioned?

Believe it or not, the FCC filing is interesting (fuck I can be a geek)

[pbmax]

What do you mean by wireless shortcomings? Are you talking about the bandwidth issue that was mentioned?

Believe it or not, the FCC filing is interesting (fuck I can be a geek)

No, I meant the actual effectiveness and reach of the signal. Given the structure of the stadium, concrete and steel (I am assuming here), there must be some places were wireless signals are difficult to carry. So you need a number of extenders or amplifiers. I can see an owner preferring instead of that expense, to use the old system rather than new.

Its just a guess.

[pbmax]

NFL doubles down on conventional interference exacerbated by the weather as the culprit.


“Based on our review to date, we believe that the audio interference on Steelers’ headsets last night was entirely attributable to an electrical issue made worse by the inclement weather; that it involved no manipulation by any individual; and that the Patriots had nothing to do with it,” the league’s statement said. “The issue was promptly resolved and there were no further problems for the remainder of the game. We will continue to review the matter to determine if there are technical steps that can be taken to avoid similar problems from occurring in other games.”

Was updated late Friday afternoon: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/nfl-on-headset-problems-patriots-had-nothing-to-do-with-it/

[Guiness]

NFL doubles down on conventional interference exacerbated by the weather as the culprit.
Was updated late Friday afternoon: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/11/nfl-on-headset-problems-patriots-had-nothing-to-do-with-it/

If this is the case, Tomlin was stretching the truth just a leeeetle bit. Is that what they're saying? Judging by the fact that the Steelers decided not to file a formal complaint, I think they realize it too.

[Guiness]

No, I meant the actual effectiveness and reach of the signal. Given the structure of the stadium, concrete and steel (I am assuming here), there must be some places were wireless signals are difficult to carry. So you need a number of extenders or amplifiers. I can see an owner preferring instead of that expense, to use the old system rather than new.

Its just a guess.

Nah, I highly doubt that's the problem. RIM/Blackberry solved most of those issues years ago for your military after Desert Shield when they figured out the radios they had couldn't transmit through sand dunes. Consumer stuff might still suffer from it, but there it technology available that should work with no issues.

[smuggler]

Goodell will bungle the investigation, butcher the punishment phase, and the Pats will appeal and win.

Yes, well granted.

[pbmax]

Packers had issues with the QBs wireless communication in their Patriot preseason game. Hundley couldn't hear Clements.


Packers coach Mike McCarthy said such issues are not uncommon – regardless of where you’re playing.

“I think anytime you compete in this league long enough there's things that go wrong and you adjust,” McCarthy said during his early Friday morning news conference. “It's definitely not the first time it's happened in a game, and I'm sure it won't be the last.”

http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=55421&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[mraynrand]

Need coaches with superpowers

http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/char_7007.jpg

[esoxx]

Why you run shotgun in short yardage is beyond me. Lynch thrown for loss, Rams win.

Melvin Gordon with sensational TD run. Unreal

[esoxx]

Looks like that melvin td run overturned.