Official NFL Notes 2015

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 51s51 seconds ago
By not suspending @NdamukongSuh and @REALPACMAN24, the NFL possibly hoped to avoid a fight it could lose http://wp.me/p14QSB-9QYl

Unbelievable. On field conduct was the one area on which they had established some consistency.

[mraynrand]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 51s51 seconds ago
By not suspending @NdamukongSuh and @REALPACMAN24, the NFL possibly hoped to avoid a fight it could lose http://wp.me/p14QSB-9QYl

Unbelievable. On field conduct was the one area on which they had established some consistency.

what did you think the fallout was going to be from losing deflate case?

[pbmax]

what did you think the fallout was going to be from losing deflate case?

Start with what works and duplicate that effort. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This isn't rocket surgery; literally thousands of employers know how to navigate this stuff. Stay consistent. Apply the policy you applied in the last 20 cases. If the policy needs to change, give advanced warning. If its a huge change, push it through one of the committees to get input and comments (even if its just a nod in that direction). Then announce.

As long as you don't make it up as you go along, it'll work just as it has been.

Now game integrity is a mess and will need a more comprehensive fix. But on field conduct and the Drug and Alcohol Policy have been fine. It almost seems like they are throwing a temper tantrum.

Speaking of which, Pacman said the guy he was bouncing off his helmet had grabbed or punched his throat. Did anyone see that?

[Smidgeon]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 51s51 seconds ago
By not suspending @NdamukongSuh and @REALPACMAN24, the NFL possibly hoped to avoid a fight it could lose http://wp.me/p14QSB-9QYl

Unbelievable. On field conduct was the one area on which they had established some consistency.

No kidding. Suh should be suspended and suspended until he retires or he can't play anymore........or until he cleans up his act.

[mraynrand]

Start with what works and duplicate that effort. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This isn't rocket surgery; literally thousands of employers know how to navigate this stuff. Stay consistent. Apply the policy you applied in the last 20 cases. If the policy needs to change, give advanced warning. If its a huge change, push it through one of the committees to get input and comments (even if its just a nod in that direction). Then announce.

As long as you don't make it up as you go along, it'll work just as it has been.

Now game integrity is a mess and will need a more comprehensive fix. But on field conduct and the Drug and Alcohol Policy have been fine. It almost seems like they are throwing a temper tantrum.

Speaking of which, Pacman said the guy he was bouncing off his helmet had grabbed or punched his throat. Did anyone see that?

this doesn't really answer my question, but seems like a nice exposition of what you wanted to talk about.

[pbmax]

this doesn't really answer my question, but seems like a nice exposition of what you wanted to talk about.

The answer is the first line. Stick with what works. In game conduct hasn't been an issue in terms of process.

[pbmax]

NFL's version:

Ed Werder @Edwerderespn
Rational for #NFL fining but not suspending Pacman: incident on field, Bengals penalized 15 yds, didn't swing helmet, Cooper wasn't injured,

[Cheesehead Craig]

Suh didn't do anything, that's why the NFL isn't doing anything to him. He tackled Morris, and was getting off of him and in the process his knee hit Morris' facemask and the helmet came off. Suh's a shit, but this has been way overblown due to who he is.

[Patler]

Looked to me like Suh got up by trying to move through the area occupied by Morris' head. Most players get up by moving into open space. I doubt this was unintentional, but how can you prove it? You can't, and that is why he does it. No different than the "accidental" step backwards last year, right onto Aaron Rodgers leg. It was an awkward, long step; but you can't prove any intent. Just a coincidence that he landed on such a small target, and a gimpy one at that.

[sharpe1027]

Suh didn't do anything, that's why the NFL isn't doing anything to him. He tackled Morris, and was getting off of him and in the process his knee hit Morris' facemask and the helmet came off. Suh's a shit, but this has been way overblown due to who he is.

I agree the helmet came off easy, but watch his leg kick out toward the guys head. It did not look like a natural motion. Also, he literally turns into the runner instead of getting up like a normal person and keeping some distance between them. I have done similar things in sports when the completive juices were really flowing. I think he was looking for some extra contact.

Is it finable? Maybe not, but it looks deliberate from where I am standing.

[sharpe1027]

Looked to me like Suh got up by trying to move through the area occupied by Morris' head. Most players get up by moving into open space. I doubt this was unintentional, but how can you prove it? You can't, and that is why he does it. No different than the "accidental" step backwards last year, right onto Aaron Rodgers leg. It was an awkward, long step; but you can't prove any intent. Just a coincidence that he landed on such a small target, and a gimpy one at that.

Time for some old school justice? Every offensive lineman should accidentally step on him several times a game and be sure to walk through his head at every opportunity. As long as you don't look while you are making contact they can't prove it!

[Patler]

Time for some old school justice? Every offensive lineman should accidentally step on him several times a game and be sure to walk through his head at every opportunity. As long as you don't look while you are making contact they can't prove it!

Yup>

[sharpe1027]

Theoretically speaking, I wonder what would happen if Morris went to the Player's Union and wanted to pursue a complaint? While it sometimes seems the player's union is only interested in opposing the NFL front office, they do represent the players after all. It would never happen, but I wonder if they actually could oppose the NFL for failing to issue a punishment? That would be hilarious to see.

[mraynrand]

The answer is the first line. Stick with what works. In game conduct hasn't been an issue in terms of process.

I agree, but that's not what I was rhetorically 'asking.'

[pbmax]

I agree, but that's not what I was rhetorically 'asking.'

Mea culpa.

[ThunderDan]

Theoretically speaking, I wonder what would happen if Morris went to the Player's Union and wanted to pursue a complaint? While it sometimes seems the player's union is only interested in opposing the NFL front office, they do represent the players after all. It would never happen, but I wonder if they actually could oppose the NFL for failing to issue a punishment? That would be hilarious to see.

I've been wondering that also. If I was an NFL player and they were suspending guys for using steroids and HGH, I wouldn't want the NFLPA to defend those guys. They are taking away my money by using illegal substances to improve their performance. That hurts my production verses other players and lowers my value.

[mraynrand]

Mea culpa.

It's not a big deal. You made some good points. But, I should have just made a direct statement: All I'm saying is that when you get taken to court and lose, you're gonna be gun shy. And having the precedent of being taken to court and winning against the NFL will inevitably lead to more cases being taken to court against the NFL (especially the more nebulously addressed they are by the NFLPA and bargaining).

[mraynrand]

I've been wondering that also. If I was an NFL player and they were suspending guys for using steroids and HGH, I wouldn't want the NFLPA to defend those guys. They are taking away my money by using illegal substances to improve their performance. That hurts my production verses other players and lowers my value.

or forcing you to take risks to stay competitive. But having the NFLPA go against players might be seen to weaken the NFLPA, and to weaken player rights. It's a fine line to walk.

[sharpe1027]

or forcing you to take risks to stay competitive. But having the NFLPA go against players might be seen to weaken the NFLPA, and to weaken player rights. It's a fine line to walk.

I think they are firmly on one side of the line: Oppose the NFL front office in favor of individuals, even if it might be short-sighted and detrimental to players as a whole.

[pbmax]

It's not a big deal. You made some good points. But, I should have just made a direct statement: All I'm saying is that when you get taken to court and lose, you're gonna be gun shy. And having the precedent of being taken to court and winning against the NFL will inevitably lead to more cases being taken to court against the NFL (especially the more nebulously addressed they are by the NFLPA and bargaining).

Well, that is what I thought you meant originally. I am not having a good day for cognition or communication. :sad:

I understand gun shy, but to read either the Rice, Hardy, Peterson or Brady cases as having on impact on conduct during a game seems a big reach. There is ample precedent to stand on.

[pbmax]

I think they are firmly on one side of the line: Oppose the NFL front office in favor of individuals, even if it might be short-sighted and detrimental to players as a whole.

I don't think that's been the case for quite some time. All the recent cases have been about the Player Conduct Policy, which in retrospect, was constructed and approved in a short-sighted and ill conceived manner, even if all agreed on the overall purpose.

Last time the NFLPA was involved in a PED case that challenged the ruling was Star Caps I think. All the other stuff is procedural. And if I am not mistaken (not a good bet this week) the NFLPA was very reluctant on this, the players themselves initiated the suit with David Cornwall I think.

Outside of those, the other obvious one is BountyGate. And it was an ex-commissioner who pulled the rug out from Roger on that one, it wasn't the Courts. Though the NFLPA wanted neutral arbitration on that one. Not exactly short sighted there either.

If you want to see where the NFLPA's loyalties lie, watch them march with the League on the concussion settlement, because their future was on the line too. Several of the lawsuits named both the NFL and NFLPA jointly as defendants.

[pbmax]

I've been wondering that also. If I was an NFL player and they were suspending guys for using steroids and HGH, I wouldn't want the NFLPA to defend those guys. They are taking away my money by using illegal substances to improve their performance. That hurts my production verses other players and lowers my value.

If it were me, I would want the NFLPA to stand up and force the NFL to live up to the letter of the agreement. So that nothing unexpected happens to me if I find out Twix has a natural diuretic in it. That is what I would expect.

I am not sure Aaron Rodgers wants the PED users on his O line to get what's coming to them for being naughty. So the folks who want PEDs gone are outnumbered by users and those that benefit directly.

People view this issue entirely differently in the NFL than they do in baseball. The last time there was outrage about the size of NFL players, it was around Refrigerator Perry's rookie year. Its also interesting to note that not a lot of NFL players are undersized now like they became in baseball. The entire game changed there after testing was announced. Football not so much.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think that's been the case for quite some time. All the recent cases have been about the Player Conduct Policy, which in retrospect, was constructed and approved in a short-sighted and ill conceived manner, even if all agreed on the overall purpose.

Last time the NFLPA was involved in a PED case that challenged the ruling was Star Caps I think. All the other stuff is procedural. And if I am not mistaken (not a good bet this week) the NFLPA was very reluctant on this, the players themselves initiated the suit with David Cornwall I think.

Outside of those, the other obvious one is BountyGate. And it was an ex-commissioner who pulled the rug out from Roger on that one, it wasn't the Courts. Though the NFLPA wanted neutral arbitration on that one. Not exactly short sighted there either.

If you want to see where the NFLPA's loyalties lie, watch them march with the League on the concussion settlement, because their future was on the line too. Several of the lawsuits named both the NFL and NFLPA jointly as defendants.

I think you missed the mark with this one. They have always picked their battles, and perhaps you are correct that they are more selective now. That really wasn't the point.

When was the last time they did anything close to pushing for an increased suspension for a player, or some other positive action that that would be in the benefit of the players as a whole, but to the detriment of an individual?

[pbmax]

I think you missed the mark with this one. They have always picked their battles, and perhaps you are correct that they are more selective now. That really wasn't the point.

When was the last time they did anything close to pushing for an increased suspension for a player, or some other positive action that that would be in the benefit of the players as a whole, but to the detriment of an individual?

1. Agreed to Personal Conduct Policy - done outside the CBA negotiations
2. Agreed to PED Policy
3. Agreed with medical clearance rules for players with head injuries

Asking the PA to stand up for an individual player to get increased sanctions is counter productive, both logically and as a negotiation tactic. The PA work best when the rules are uniformly applied, at worst, players are uniformly miserable. Singling out an individual would also haunt the PA because a new precedent wold be set without negotiation.

Do you think the game is actually more dangerous because Suh wasn't suspended? Same with Pacman? Each has been suspended and fined. Only Pacman has shown signs of changing.

[smuggler]

PED policy and medical clearance policies are better for the players than the league. It doesn't matter if the PA is too dumb to fucking understand it.

[sharpe1027]

1. Agreed to Personal Conduct Policy - done outside the CBA negotiations
2. Agreed to PED Policy
3. Agreed with medical clearance rules for players with head injuries

Asking the PA to stand up for an individual player to get increased sanctions is counter productive, both logically and as a negotiation tactic. The PA work best when the rules are uniformly applied, at worst, players are uniformly miserable. Singling out an individual would also haunt the PA because a new precedent wold be set without negotiation.

Do you think the game is actually more dangerous because Suh wasn't suspended? Same with Pacman? Each has been suspended and fined. Only Pacman has shown signs of changing.

Do you think Morris and other players would be within their rights to want to get that kind of bush league stuff out of the game? Is that really counter productive to ask for a second review if the players, other than Suh, felt the head office got it wrong?

Maybe this isn't the best case for it, but the concept shouldn't be too hard to grasp. What if Morris had his career ended by a concussion fr the hit? Who would the players associatiin back in a lawsuit? What if the intent was much easier to see? What if the next guy Suh takes a cheap shot on gets seriously hurt and sues the NFL for allowing it to continue without sufficient punishment? At what point does it stop being counter productive?

[mraynrand]

Asking the PA to stand up for an individual player to get increased sanctions is counter productive, both logically and as a negotiation tactic. The PA work best when the rules are uniformly applied, at worst, players are uniformly miserable. Singling out an individual would also haunt the PA because a new precedent wold be set without negotiation.

This is gobbledy gook. It's not hard at all to see how all your so-called counter-productive, equally miserable, and un-negotiated 'new precedents' could be uniformly applied to the punishment of obvious and repeated thuggish behavior.

[pbmax]

Would they be within their rights? Sure.

Would it be supported? I doubt it. In general, players in any sport prefer to police that stuff themselves. And that was true long before Goodell came on the scene and its not limited to football. It would need to be a far more grievous case to turn around that sentiment.


It's not hard at all to see how all your so-called counter-productive, equally miserable, and un-negotiated 'new precedents' could be uniformly applied to the punishment of obvious and repeated thuggish behavior.

The policy and power to act against Suh and Jones already exist. That, if PFT's read is right, is what makes this odd. There is no need for new precedent. And the League has been busy for years now under Goodell demonstrating how they prefer not to be limited by uniformity and precedent.

[sharpe1027]

Would they be within their rights? Sure.

Would it be supported? I doubt it. In general, players in any sport prefer to police that stuff themselves. And that was true long before Goodell came on the scene and its not limited to football. It would need to be a far more grievous case to turn around that sentiment.



The policy and power to act against Suh and Jones already exist. That, if PFT's read is right, is what makes this odd. There is no need for new precedent. And the League has been busy for years now under Goodell demonstrating how they prefer not to be limited by uniformity and precedent.

You're kind of all over the place. Whether it would be supported doesn't mean it would be counter productive. So, why exactly is seeking a review on a decision like Suh's counter productive if they believe he was guilty of an infraction against one of their other players?

[pbmax]

You're kind of all over the place. Whether it would be supported doesn't mean it would be counter productive. So, why exactly is seeking a review on a decision like Suh's counter productive if they believe he was guilty of an infraction against one of their other players?

Because seeking a review would undermine player support of the PA.

And the League already has tools to do this for in game conduct. You would need a far more egregious case for player sentiment to switch to push for harsher penalties.

[mraynrand]

Because seeking a review would undermine player support of the PA.

And the League already has tools to do this for in game conduct. You would need a far more egregious case for player sentiment to switch to push for harsher penalties.

Not necessarily. How about just a repetitive pattern by the same guy? It's not like there are thirty guys running around taking cheap shots. It's one guy - maybe another guy here and there. So if there is a complaint (and we don't know if there is or isn't, I think), then review it and see if the guy deserves a fine or suspension, even if it goes beyond the 'strict' rules agreed upon - there is some room for discretion. As long as it isn't capricious, and addresses a serious and/or recurring problem, I don't think there will be significant push back or loss of support for PA, because it's a case of protecting other players.

[pbmax]

Not necessarily. How about just a repetitive pattern by the same guy? It's not like there are thirty guys running around taking cheap shots. It's one guy - maybe another guy here and there. So if there is a complaint (and we don't know if there is or isn't, I think), then review it and see if the guy deserves a fine or suspension, even if it goes beyond the 'strict' rules agreed upon - there is some room for discretion. As long as it isn't capricious, and addresses a serious and/or recurring problem, I don't think there will be significant push back or loss of support for PA, because it's a case of protecting other players.

I just don't see the evidence of support for such a move. Other action has gotten loud support (Personal Conduct, PEDs) from player quarters that helped carry the day publicly. This doesn't.

And am I nuts or did the Packer players also downplay what they wanted to have happen to Suh when he stomped on EDS/had his shoes untied by EDS?

But the idea of escalation in the face of repeat offenders is already a feature of the policy. In fact, that is the part of the PFT speculation I agree with. While neither incident is the worst of either player's career (though from some of the things I have read about Jones, he seems to have made a sincere effort to reform that is lacking with Suh), the fact that this is repeat in-game conduct with no suspensions is the surprise.

I just don't think there is an appetite among the players to go after other players. Probably closer to never than occasionally. If the issue blossoms like the others have, then the thinking may change.

[mraynrand]

I just don't see the evidence of support for such a move. Other action has gotten loud support (Personal Conduct, PEDs) from player quarters that helped carry the day publicly. This doesn't.

well, honestly, it's not a big issue. It's maybe one or two guys. So it seems pretty straightforward that if there's a bad actor, it shouldn't be difficult to punish appropriately and more severely than whatever the standard is without 'scaring' people about some change in the power structure.

[sharpe1027]

Because seeking a review would undermine player support of the PA.

And the League already has tools to do this for in game conduct. You would need a far more egregious case for player sentiment to switch to push for harsher penalties.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. It is not about policy or precedent, it is about their finding that there was no intent in Suh's action. The PA would not be seeking a harsher fine, just a review of the factual finding. The league could do whatever they wanted in terms of following precedent and fines or suspension.

[pbmax]

I think a review for intent is inherently an exercise in futility. And unless grievous enough to demand action to prevent being overrun by public opinion, players aren't going to want the NFLPA to push for more investigations. Perhaps a case could be made to conduct interviews in all cases, to get people on the record.

But I would actually prefer they pursue this:

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 33m33 minutes ago
Pacman's helmet antics were preceded by a throat punch from Cooper (but Jones still should have been suspended) http://wp.me/p14QSB-9R5Z

I can see a player argument for getting the details right. Not all sources of conflict can be verified, but if you've got film and it wasn't called on the field, there should be a FedEx envelope at that player's locker on Friday.

[Joemailman]

Jameis Winston's first NFL pass was intercepted and returned for a touchdown. The last to have that happen? Brett Favre. So, depending on how you look at it, his career either got off to a terrible start or a great one.

[pbmax]

Read this explanation of Manning/Kubiak struggles with their offense. Tell me the section on Manning being skittish in the pocket doesn't remind you of later period Favre.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25308395/broncos-struggling-to-integrate-aging-peyton-manning-into-new-offense


The scouts detailed a template for defending Manning that has become increasingly common and other teams are expected to replicate when possible. Manning is becoming increasingly wary of being hit, they said.

“He hates anticipated pressure and he's playing skittish in the pocket,” as one scout described it.


“He's going to protect himself,” this scout went on to say. “If the pocket is totally clean and he can get his entire body into the throw, he can still throw a fastball when he needs to. If there's pressure, or he perceives there is pressure, then he's going to go down pretty quickly.”

Brett wouldn't go down quick, but he would throw it quick, whether the route and coverage demanded it or not.

[pbmax]

PFT and the agent for Joe Thomas deliver a smackdown on Ian Rapoport. Rap Sheet had reported that the Thomas trade to the Broncos fell apart over guaranteed money demands by Thomas before agreeing to report. His agent (Peter Schaffer) responded on the record that the deal never reached contract language questions as the team's never agreed to compensation. "The word guarantee never came up...."


“I never asked for any re-do of the contract,” Schaffer said. “The Broncos never asked to do anything with the contract. We never asked for guaranteed money. The whole thing is made up.”

Its rare for an agent to put their name on a report like this and it lends credibility. Its hard to read how that Rapoport story is bad for Thomas. He doesn't want to leave Cleveland unless the remaining three years of his deal get guaranteed and he goes to a contender. I tend to believe the agent in this case, even though RapSheet has been spot on about a lot of other reports (esp. Packers).

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 5m5 minutes ago
#Browns coach Mike Pettine tipped his hand on making the Johnny Manziel the starter this week, lauding his progress. Now he gets the season



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO-_rX4FG_M

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUCJjbuUcAAk4qV.jpg:large

[red]

Lol

[pbmax]

This article doesn't start off promising: when interviewing, try telling the owner and you boss they don't know what the hell they are doing! If they don't listen, you didn't want to work for them anyway.

But it does get better, especially with Tidwell's list of what he was looking for in a coach. All of this is after the fact, but his list isn't a bad place to start when hiring.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000584101/article/week-11-notebook-mike-zimmer-bruce-arians-head-nfl-trend

Bonus material, how easy it is to hurt little Greg Hardy's feelings. A mean coach and how it took extra time for him to be able to show his face at practice.

[mraynrand]

With 57 years on this planet under his belt at that point, Zimmer most certainly was. And he became the latest example of trend in pro football to go older with head-coaching hires.

What about the trend of hiring coaches who are heavy and then become fat?
Holmgren in Seattle, Andy Reid, Stubby...there are others (my favorite was Denny Green, but that goes way back, so not part of 'trend.'. I guess Ryan is a counter example, where he had surgery lost weight and started to suck.

[Patler]

What about the trend of hiring coaches who are heavy and then become fat?

You mean American males who are younger and then become older?

[Joemailman]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000587260/article/browns-name-mccown-starting-qb-demote-manziel


Johnny Manziel's reign as Browns starting quarterback is over.

Just a short time after it began, head coach Mike Pettine took exception to a series of photos and videos that surfaced of Manziel allegedly partying during the Browns' bye week last week. The various media, which show Manziel wielding a champagne bottle just months after completing rehab, frustrated his head coach to a point that could seriously alter the Browns' future.

Every game, all season

When asked about the photos on Tuesday, Pettine said he was considering a benching. By late afternoon, he made it official, and dropped Manziel all the way to No. 3.



Thus ends another remarkable chapter in Browns history.

[red]

just stupid that someone actually spent a 1st round pick on a guy with that many red flags to play QB

[mraynrand]

In 2016 the Browns will draft a QB and a WR/RB: #Thefutureisnow. I can't think of any franchise that has rebooted as frequently as the Browns. It's like they've been hacked by a Chinese superbug.

[pbmax]

What a waste.

[Patler]

Manziel acted like an idiot? I'm shocked! Absolutely shocked! I don't think ANYONE could have predicted that.

[Joemailman]

Manziel acted like an idiot? I'm shocked! Absolutely shocked! I don't think ANYONE could have predicted that.

Apparently not the Browns.

[red]

everyone BUT the browns were in on that joke, and maybe the cowboys. i think i remember JJ having to be restrained so he couldn't draft johnny

well, the owner got what he wanted, he can't really blame anyone else

[pbmax]

Good piece on why Johnny Football isn't starting anymore: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2593618-johnny-manziels-benching-about-a-breach-of-trust-not-partying


The breach of trust in question came the following weekend, during the Browns' bye week. Just days after Manziel promised his coaches and his team he would stay out of the public eye and avoid drawing negative attention to himself—and saying so publicly—a video surfaced, shared by TMZ, of him partying in Austin, Texas.

But it wasn't just or specifically Manziel's partying that saw him benched. Though not a promising development given the time Manziel spent in rehab earlier this year, it was reportedly his denial of the video being current, his instruction to his friends to deny the freshness of the video to the Browns' brass and the outright lying he did to try to cover his tracks that ultimately doomed him, according to Jay Glazer of Fox Sports.

[pbmax]

Did some say pass the eye test?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVPlrdZWsAE2D2B.png

[Fritz]

Wow. I believe I am now qualified to be the GM of the Cleveland Browns. And so is my dog.

If you were TedThompson, wouldn't you be drooling at the prospect of making a draft-day trade with them?

That would be the one team where you could pull off the fan's fantasy of trading your third-string long snapper for a second round draft pick.

[mraynrand]

That would be the one team where you could pull off the fan's fantasy of trading your third-string long snapper for a second round draft pick.

hang on there a second professor. That long-snapper is now our QB.

[pbmax]

hang on there a second professor. That long-snapper is now our QB.

And center. Packers down to 10 on offense. Ted still refuses to fire the injured and bring in the street talent.

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/120328204.html

Hot Scout Takes
1. Gabbert is better than Newton (not even the GMs who actually drafted agreed with that one)
2. Josh Freeman, best young signal called in game
3. And the best of all:


"I don't like any of them, really," said a national scout for a team with an established starter. "There's no Sam Bradfords. There's no Josh Freeman. I think they're all second- or third rounders."

I'd give him a pass on Bradford due to injury, even though he was thought to be injury prone prior to his NFL career. Face it, its a crapshoot. There are too many variables. You take the best talent and work hard with it and pray.

4. Second best QB in that draft? Ranked sixth by scouts:


Tied for third were Jake Locker and Ryan Mallett, each with 43 points. They were followed by Christian Ponder (37), Andy Dalton (15), Colin Kaepernick (11) and Ricky Stanzi (seven).

[Patler]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/120328204.html

Hot Scout Takes
1. Gabbert is better than Newton (not even the GMs who actually drafted agreed with that one)
2. Josh Freeman, best young signal called in game
3. And the best of all:



I'd give him a pass on Bradford due to injury, even though he was thought to be injury prone prior to his NFL career. Face it, its a crapshoot. There are too many variables. You take the best talent and work hard with it and pray.

4. Second best QB in that draft? Ranked sixth by scouts:



I like McGinn's take on who needed a QB:


Dominik doesn't need one, having hit on Josh Freeman in 2009.

That bubble sure burst quickly. Freeman bounced around a few teams for a couple years after TB gave up on him somewhat quickly. Now plays for the Brooklyn Bolts of something called the FXFL.

[Fritz]

Well, maybe Dominik is now the GM of the Brooklyn Bolts, so he really doesn't need a QB. Maybe McGinn was right after all.

[mraynrand]

... of something called the FXFL.

FUFXFL

[pbmax]

^ Its where all the scouts wear their name on the back of their track suit, but the players are anonymous.

[pbmax]

Michael Silver ‏@MikeSilver 5h5 hours ago
Honest, raw and ballsy piece by @edsbritton providing a glimpse into our weird little universe. Respect.

The CauldronVerified account
‏@TheCauldron
.@NFL player says #Adderall is league’s dirty little secret: http://on.si.com/1NHscDv | via @SInow @si_nfl |

ANYONE ELSE SUSPECT THAT SILVER RUNS AROUND HIS HOUSE IN A HELMET AND SHOULDER PADS?

[pbmax]

Well, Tank will be happy.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 7m7 minutes ago
Coldplay will be halftime act at Super Bowl 50 via @WSJ.

[mraynrand]

Well, Tank will be happy.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 7m7 minutes ago
Coldplay will be halftime act at Super Bowl 50 via @WSJ.

YES!!!

http://battellemedia.com/images/ballmer_developers.jpg

[red]

somewhere, tank started beating off, and won't stop until the halftime of the superbowl

[denverYooper]

^ Its where all the scouts wear their name on the back of their track suit, but the players are anonymous.

All games are straight to video.

[denverYooper]

Ballmer is a sweaty sonofabitch.

[pbmax]

Ballmer is a sweaty sonofabitch.

Best company meeting of all time: Company President at last evening event says he is out of clothes and doesn't want to pay for laundry. Declares Friday meetings Casual. Got a hero's welcome.

Lasted another 6 months.

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/07/report-johnny-manziel-returning-to-starting-lineup/

Still rooting for this kid, but wonder if the coach is doing this because he thinks a message was sent OR if his job is on the line.

[mraynrand]

Browns have a tradition of starting the third string QB for the season finale against Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh always appreciates knowing they have a guaranteed bye, no matter where they end up in the playoffs.

This year Cleveland is on a trajectory to start the fourth string QB. Bringing back Manzier and having him get hurt in the next three weeks is all part of the plan to give Terrelle Pryor enough time to work his way into the starting lineup for the final scrimmage.

[hoosier]

I watched the first half and Austin Davis did not look bad, despite having no running game and nobody to throw the ball to. But maybe that changed in the second half along with the point differential. Or is Davis just another Brian Hoyer, a decent QB who you give up on so that you can showcase your first-round bust?

[pbmax]

I watched the first half and Austin Davis did not look bad, despite having no running game and nobody to throw the ball to. But maybe that changed in the second half along with the point differential. Or is Davis just another Brian Hoyer, a decent QB who you give up on so that you can showcase your first-round bust?

I think Davis is Ty Detmer. He seems more functional on paper than in on the field. He is also someone the fans can get behind.

But I agree the Browns offense is currently not setup for anyone to succeed long term.

[hoosier]

I think Davis is Ty Detmer. He seems more functional on paper than in on the field. He is also someone the fans can get behind.

But I agree the Browns offense is currently not setup for anyone to succeed long term.

I thought Davis looked like something more than just a Detmer for a drive or two, but admittedly that was right before he threw that awful interception to Reggie Nelson. It is hard to fathom how a team can reach that level of mediocrity year after year after year with such perfect consistency. They seem to have a different cast of characters every year, with exactly the same result. And they manage to attract and cultivate it at all personnel levels, players, coaches and front office. They seem to suffer from not enough continuity and too much continuity at the same time.

[mraynrand]

They seem to have a different cast of characters every year, with exactly the same result. And they manage to attract and cultivate it at all personnel levels, players, coaches and front office. They seem to suffer from not enough continuity and too much continuity at the same time.

#thefutureisnow. Every year is a total reset from the previous year. This year will be no different. The GM and coach and QB will almost certainly be gone. If Manzier remains, you know the owner is continuing to meddle and nothing will ever be any different.

It's impossible to attract top tier GMs and Coaches when they know from everyone else who has passed through Clevelans that the owner will not allow autonomy.

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h2 hours ago
The #Rams announced they fired OC Frank Cignetti. Assistant head coach Rob Boras, who was second choice as OC, takes over.

Defensive background head coaches shouldn't struggle this much with offense. But some do. It should be the most attractive job to qualified OC candidates, but somehow they screw it up. Especially if they control personnel.

See also, Chuck Pagano and Mike Pettine.

[mraynrand]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 2h2 hours ago
The #Rams announced they fired OC Frank Cignetti. Assistant head coach Rob Boras, who was second choice as OC, takes over.

Defensive background head coaches shouldn't struggle this much with offense. But some do. It should be the most attractive job to qualified OC candidates, but somehow they screw it up. Especially if they control personnel.

See also, Chuck Pagano and Mike Pettine.

Pettine doesn't control personnel. But that's such a mess that Shanny left town because they forced him to play Manzier and other interferences during games, etc. Worse than Al Davis because: incompetence.

[pbmax]

Pettine doesn't control personnel. But that's such a mess that Shanny left town because they forced him to play Manzier and other interferences during games, etc. Worse than Al Davis because: incompetence.

Controlling personnel just exacerbates the situation. Being HC is enough to screw up an offense as a defensive background head coach (see also Rex Ryan).

[Joemailman]

This has never seemed more apt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBDMMVctu8

[pbmax]

Chicago Bears ‏@ChicagoBears 32m32 minutes ago
#Bears have placed TE Martellus Bennett on season-ending injured reserve with a rib injury & signed TE Rob Housler.

OUCH

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 29m29 minutes ago
#Bears also signed QB Matt Blanchard, a familiar face, to practice squad and released QB Justin Worley from the PS.

If you were the Cowboys, wouldn't you want to have Blanchard?

[Freak Out]

This has never seemed more apt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRBDMMVctu8

That never gets old.

[Carolina_Packer]

Chicago Bears ‏@ChicagoBears 32m32 minutes ago
#Bears have placed TE Martellus Bennett on season-ending injured reserve with a rib injury & signed TE Rob Housler.

OUCH

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 29m29 minutes ago
#Bears also signed QB Matt Blanchard, a familiar face, to practice squad and released QB Justin Worley from the PS.

If you were the Cowboys, wouldn't you want to have Blanchard?

Shh, don't give them anything in the way of good advice, PB.

[pbmax]

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 1h1 hour ago
Why can't Chip shake your hand? McCoy: "Listen man, Chip can't shake shit. At all. Nothing. He knows this. ...I can read between the lines."

Wesley Sumner @WesleyAprilS
@TyDunne when you sell a man like a whore without so much as a phone call I think you owe him the respect of space afterwards.

PackerRats.com ‏@PackerRats 25s25 seconds ago
@wesleyaprils @tydunne Finally they sent a poet.

#completely stolen

[pbmax]

Kent Somers @kentsomers
Arians said from what he’s heard, FOX will protect Green Bay game on Dec. 27. Will stay at 2:25 and not be flexed. #AZCardinals

[smuggler]

Today I learned there were some geniuses in New York that killed someone in 1979 with a flying model lawnmower, during a Pats-Jets game, of course!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/lawnmower.asp

Relevant because today is the 36th anniversary of the death.

[Rastak]

Today I learned there were some geniuses in New York that killed someone in 1979 with a flying model lawnmower, during a Pats-Jets game, of course!

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/lawnmower.asp

Relevant because today is the 36th anniversary of the death.


I read about that a long time ago.

I don't recall the original because I was 17 and had a one track mind which put football for the first time and only time in my life on the periphery.

[pbmax]

You can still buy plans for that kind of thing. Take a lawnmower engine and make your own hovercraft.

When I was a kid it was a tossup between that and rocket boots for my meager savings.

[pbmax]

Consistency is not necessarily a good thing:

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 37m37 minutes ago
#Bears practice squad WR Jalen Saunders finishes 4-game suspension, now gets a 10-game suspension. http://trib.in/1UczJcF

[Cheesehead Craig]

Consistency is not necessarily a good thing:

Brad Biggs ‏@BradBiggs 37m37 minutes ago
#Bears practice squad WR Jalen Saunders finishes 4-game suspension, now gets a 10-game suspension. http://trib.in/1UczJcF

His NFL carreer is over. Hellloooo Jacksonville Sharks!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Speaking of Arena League teams, there's a team there, Portland Thunder that went 5-13 and made the playoffs.

[Rastak]

Since I'm bored,

So about six weeks ago or so, could be longer as it was right before Vick got sent back to 3rd string, I'm listening to NFL Radio and the two hosts get into a literal argument. The first host called the second host Maurice several times. I assumed it was Maurice Jones Drew.

Anyway, "Maurice" literally insisted he'd rather have Michael Vick as his QB than all but maybe 5 current starting QBs. He said he'd start Vick before Cam Newton or Jameis Winston. It was funny as hell as the other host was literally at a loss for words at the utter idiocy of his argumets.

If that was Marice Jones Drew he took too many shots to the head. He wasn;t backing down one inch.

[smuggler]

Yeah, I seem to recall he made some stupid statements when he was a player. I don't remember the topic of the hour, as it were.

[pbmax]

Finally some clarity:

Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 12m12 minutes ago
Montee Ball on #Patriots practice squad but not in top shape. Told he weighed 205 when Broncos drafted, 240 for #Packers tryout, 230s now.

[smuggler]

Fat Montee?

[Fritz]

Fat Montee?


The full Montee.

[mraynrand]

Montee Ball on #Patriots practice squad but not in top shape. Told he weighed 205 when Broncos drafted, 240 for #Packers tryout, 230s now.

He must have Davenported before arriving in NE.

[smuggler]

Maybe he took a detour to Cleveland to let out his Davenport.

[Fritz]

Since I'm bored,

So about six weeks ago or so, could be longer as it was right before Vick got sent back to 3rd string, I'm listening to NFL Radio and the two hosts get into a literal argument. The first host called the second host Maurice several times. I assumed it was Maurice Jones Drew.

Anyway, "Maurice" literally insisted he'd rather have Michael Vick as his QB than all but maybe 5 current starting QBs. He said he'd start Vick before Cam Newton or Jameis Winston. It was funny as hell as the other host was literally at a loss for words at the utter idiocy of his argumets.

If that was Marice Jones Drew he took too many shots to the head. He wasn;t backing down one inch.



Okay, since I'm bored, part two. And this one's for Wist, wherever he is.

I was listening to Detroit sports talk radio yesterday, and the topic was whom to hire as the next Lions' GM. One fan called in and suggested the Lions hire Dom Capers as their next GM. Not next head coach, which in itself would be pretty ridiculous if for no other reason than his age, but the GM.

That's some crazy shit right there.

[Patler]

Since I'm bored,

So about six weeks ago or so, could be longer as it was right before Vick got sent back to 3rd string, I'm listening to NFL Radio and the two hosts get into a literal argument. The first host called the second host Maurice several times. I assumed it was Maurice Jones Drew.

Anyway, "Maurice" literally insisted he'd rather have Michael Vick as his QB than all but maybe 5 current starting QBs. He said he'd start Vick before Cam Newton or Jameis Winston. It was funny as hell as the other host was literally at a loss for words at the utter idiocy of his argumets.

If that was Marice Jones Drew he took too many shots to the head. He wasn;t backing down one inch.

I don't see his future as being in coaching or scouting.

[Carolina_Packer]

I don't see his future as being in coaching or scouting.

If he ever is, I hope it's with the Vikings, Lions or Bears

[hoosier]

Okay, since I'm bored, part two. And this one's for Wist, wherever he is.

I was listening to Detroit sports talk radio yesterday, and the topic was whom to hire as the next Lions' GM. One fan called in and suggested the Lions hire Dom Capers as their next GM. Not next head coach, which in itself would be pretty ridiculous if for no other reason than his age, but the GM.

That's some crazy shit right there.

They've had great success in the past with hiring defensive minds as GM. Don't mess with success!

[woodbuck27]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2599849-nfl-week-15-rookie-rankings-surveying-rookie-class-post-week-14/page/2#

NFL Week 15 Rookie Rankings: Surveying Rookie Class, Post-Week 14

By Ian Wharton , Featured Columnist .... Dec 16, 2015

Ranked by this author @ #14... Damarious Randall ... CB ... Packers

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-cornerback-damarious-randall-playing-like-a-starter-b99614918z1-347340411.html

Packers cornerback Damarious Randall playing like a starter

By Tom Silverstein of the Journal Sentinel .... Nov. 12, 2015

If this article was previously posted on Packerrats...I apologize.


GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Randall goes head to head against Dez Bryant, does a very credible job, and moves down from #8 to #14?

[mraynrand]

Randall goes head to head against Dez Bryant, does a very credible job, and moves down from #8 to #14?

Well, Bryant dropped 13 passes.

[Patler]

Well, Bryant dropped 13 passes.

Randall obviously had him terrified, looking over his shoulder, wondering how he would be abused.

[Cheesehead Craig]

List is stupid. There's no rhyme or reason to it. But that's Bleacher Report for you.

[George Cumby]

Randall obviously had him terrified, looking over his shoulder, wondering how he would be abused.

Ankle biter!

[pbmax]

D. Orlando Ledbetter @DOrlandoAJC
#Falcons RB Tevin Coleman slipped in the shower and hit his head on Wednesday. He's in the concussion protocol.

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 3m3 minutes ago
The what now?

Clearly this is a coverup. But who is covering up what?

[pbmax]

Tweet of the Day

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 3h3 hours ago
While the NFC East burns, they’re talking about whether to rest starters for the playoffs in Washington http://wp.me/p14QSB-9WYW

[pbmax]

Don't pass this one up:

Chuck Woodson has two regrets, both plays were with the Packers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14465021/charles-woodson-looks-back-moments-hard-forget-wrong-reasons-nfl

[Patler]

Don't pass this one up:

Chuck Woodson has two regrets, both plays were with the Packers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14465021/charles-woodson-looks-back-moments-hard-forget-wrong-reasons-nfl

Interesting, I never would have identified Woodson as a guy who should feel personally responsible for the playoff loss to Arizona. But, as he described it, I can understand why he does.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Don't pass this one up:

Chuck Woodson has two regrets, both plays were with the Packers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14465021/charles-woodson-looks-back-moments-hard-forget-wrong-reasons-nfl
Great article. Wood regrets not being an ankle-biter. LOL

It also says a lot about the NFL always giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. Gotta keep the game interesting.

[Patler]

It also says a lot about the NFL always giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. Gotta keep the game interesting.

Except if your name is James Jones and you are playing for the 2015 Green Bay Packers. Some of the OPI calls on him the last 5 or 6 games have been sketchy, at best.

[mraynrand]

Don't pass this one up:

Chuck Woodson has two regrets, both plays were with the Packers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14465021/charles-woodson-looks-back-moments-hard-forget-wrong-reasons-nfl

those plays still steam me up. But I would bet dimes to dollars that had he grabbed, they would have flagged him. F-ers.

[Maxie the Taxi]

those plays still steam me up. But I would bet dimes to dollars that had he grabbed, they would have flagged him. F-ers.There was a period there when you could count on Woody getting flagged 3 or 4 times a game for d-holding. F-ers.

[Guiness]

those plays still steam me up. But I would bet dimes to dollars that had he grabbed, they would have flagged him. F-ers.

If we're talking about that game, the one that got me the most was a non-call - the helmet to helmet on Rodgers late in the game. Don't remember the details of just when, but pretty sure it was a 4th down play. It was blatant, and considering the NFL had said it was a point of emphasis, it should've resulted in a 15 yard penalty.

[Guiness]

Great story about Fitzgerald.

[Patler]

If we're talking about that game, the one that got me the most was a non-call - the helmet to helmet on Rodgers late in the game. Don't remember the details of just when, but pretty sure it was a 4th down play. It was blatant, and considering the NFL had said it was a point of emphasis, it should've resulted in a 15 yard penalty.

Wasn't it on the Rodgers fumble that was returned for the winning TD?

[Rutnstrut]

Except if your name is James Jones and you are playing for the 2015 Green Bay Packers. Some of the OPI calls on him the last 5 or 6 games have been sketchy, at best.

Not really, Jones is one of my favorite Packers. But this season especially he pushes off A LOT. Sure defensive players get away with a ton also, but Jones could be called more than he is imo.

[smuggler]

Jones has a reputation as a big, strong player. He's been called a handful of times in 2015. One of them was blatant and should be called 100% of the time. All of the others ranged from "eh, yeah, technically that's OPI" to "utter horseshit" variety. But, he's built his own reputation so even if he doesn't push, if he has both hands on a DB and refs see full extension, they're going to be at least tempted to call it. Larry Fitzgerald gets away with that. Not James Jones.

[Patler]

Not really, Jones is one of my favorite Packers. But this season especially he pushes off A LOT. Sure defensive players get away with a ton also, but Jones could be called more than he is imo.

Except that several have been when both players were shoving, and Jones was simply the stronger. Good time for a no-call in my opinion. Another (the negated TD throw, as I recall) was simply a great acting job. The DB got caught sort of flat footed and off balance, so he reached out for Jones arm. Jones barely waved at the Db, and the DB fell to the ground with his arms and legs flailing. I thought I was watching soccer.

[mraynrand]

Wasn't it on the Rodgers fumble that was returned for the winning TD?

yup - It was a facemask IIRC.

[mraynrand]

Except that several have been when both players were shoving, and Jones was simply the stronger. Good time for a no-call in my opinion. Another (the negated TD throw, as I recall) was simply a great acting job. The DB got caught sort of flat footed and off balance, so he reached out for Jones arm. Jones barely waved at the Db, and the DB fell to the ground with his arms and legs flailing. I thought I was watching soccer.

:)

[pbmax]

This one is for Rand:

Will Brinson ‏@WillBrinson 3h3 hours ago
Meanwhile, the Browns are apparently planning to fire everyone and go with a full-blown reboot.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/CXwpyZiU0AApdbV.gif

[mraynrand]

Cleveland Browns stadium anthem:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nQ2oiVqKHw

[Rastak]

Rumor coming out of Cleveland, Johnny Goofball showed up Wed drunk and was sent home......concussion symptoms reported by goofball shortly thereafter......

[pbmax]

Rumor coming out of Cleveland, Johnny Goofball showed up Wed drunk and was sent home......concussion symptoms reported by goofball shortly thereafter......

I hadn't heard that but there is a report that he was seen in Vegas during his concussion protocol.

[Rastak]

I hadn't heard that but there is a report that he was seen in Vegas during his concussion protocol.


Purely a rumor, although he took a bunch of shots Sunday. That guy has no shot for long term success. He's gonna get killed.

[Rastak]

From PFT:

Johnny Manziel’s exit from Cleveland may have been sealed by a failure to show up.

Peter King of TheMMQB.com reported on NBC’s Football Night in America that Manziel failed to show up on Sunday morning, as the team requires for players in the concussion protocol. Manziel didn’t show up for the 9:00 a.m. ET meeting with a member of the franchise’s medical staff.

According to King, the Browns tried to reach Manziel by phone, but couldn’t.

Via multiple reports, owner Jimmy Haslam has confirmed that Manziel didn’t show up at the facility on Sunday.

With the Browns now looking for a new coach, they may not make any decisions about Manziel in the near future. With their roster locked until the day after the Super Bowl, the Browns couldn’t cut Manziel for the next five weeks, even if they wanted to.

[Rastak]

I hadn't heard that but there is a report that he was seen in Vegas during his concussion protocol.

It was reported by ESPN Cleveland writer Tony Grossi. Said he was drunk and disheveled when he showed up Wed.

That poor fellow needs some serious help.

[Fritz]

Don't enable him. Cut him as soon as you can. He's lost.

[mraynrand]

Head Growth Hormone (HGH) added to list of banned substances*

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX5AaObWcAQZB5b.jpg

*stolen from Iowahawk

[pbmax]

Megatron is mulling retirement. His agent?

Bus Cook. Bus is the Scott Boras of retirement as leverage.

[Rastak]

Megatron is mulling retirement. His agent?

Bus Cook. Bus is the Scott Boras of retirement as leverage.


Cleaned out his locker too. This should be interesting to watch, this and Billy Football.

[Joemailman]

Cleaned out his locker too. This should be interesting to watch, this and Billy Football.

Don't guys normally clean out their locker after their season's over?

[Rastak]

Don't guys normally clean out their locker after their season's over?

What I read was his was the only one....I could be wrong.




"Ed Werder of ESPN, citing an unnamed source, reports that Johnson has cleaned out his locker at the team’s facility, unlike other veteran players. Johnson also reportedly has told his mother that he’s not sure he wants to play."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/06/report-calvin-johnson-cleans-out-locker-isnt-sure-he-wants-to-play/

[mraynrand]

... and Billy Football.

He's the Blonde 'guy' in the casino, right?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5gN8YA_xeY8/maxresdefault.jpg

[Zool]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX5AaObWcAQZB5b.jpg

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/avengersearthsmightiestheroes/images/1/13/Leader_01.png/revision/latest?cb=20121230024618

[mraynrand]

^^ Is that supposed to be 'The Leader?'

LOL

http://thelatestpull.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/leader_marvel.jpg

[Joemailman]

Looks like Rams, and probably Chargers, moving to Inglewood. Raiders staying in Oakland.

I guess they play at L.A. Coliseum while stadium is built?

[red]

sucks for st louis

[red]

vikings have fired their o-line coach, which makes no sense to me, course people always tell me when you make the playoffs you're perfect and don't have to make staff changes

[pbmax]

vikings have fired their o-line coach, which makes no sense to me, course people always tell me when you make the playoffs you're perfect and don't have to make staff changes

That's because the Packers followed your suggestion last year after Seattle. And then look what happened; they broke Adams, lost Jordy's knee ligament, turned Cobb in Turd Ferguson and I am pretty sure made Abby's concussion worse. Not to mention turning the All-Pro QB into his 2008 version.

[mraynrand]

That's because the Packers followed your suggestion last year after Seattle. And then look what happened; they broke Adams, lost Jordy's knee ligament, turned Cobb in Turd Ferguson and I am pretty sure made Abby's concussion worse. Not to mention turning the All-Pro QB into his 2008 version.

and they drafted Monty

INJURY PRONE!!!

[Fritz]

When somebody says Johnny Manziel took shots to the head it means he carried a bottle of tequila and a shot glass into the bathroom.

[George Cumby]

^lol