Playing young guys

[Harlan Huckleby]

If I were king of the forest, Josh Walker would be starting at RT and Jeff Janis would be playing 20 snaps at WR.

Walker has a chance to be better than Barclay. The team desperately needs some speed at WR. Janis can not learn without game experience. He's made big plays in preseason, he has some skill.

The coaches are not always right, they are prone to excessive caution. We see cases where a young player bests the injured vet after getting some experience.

[MadScientist]

Walker maybe, since Barclay has been bad, but as much as I want Janis to show something, so far he's been the offensive equivalent of Jarrett Bush. Great on special teams, but not right on other downs.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Janis to show something, so far he's been the offensive equivalent of Jarrett Bush.

He has played so little you can't judge. In two preseasons he's shown he can run and catch. Just having him on the field to threaten deep opens up areas for other receivers.

[mraynrand]

He has played so little you can't judge. In two preseasons he's shown he can run and catch. Just having him on the field to threaten deep opens up areas for other receivers.

Given how tightly wound Stubby is, you should be happy they even threw that deep ball to Monty to start the game.

I'm guessing this stuff is far more clear in practices and meetings.

Stubby: Should we scheme a few deep balls for Janis?
Rodgers: Not a chance. He's not competitive enough on the sideline to present a reliable target
Stubby: How about just one?
Rodgers: Why not scheme one for Monty, at least he knows what the F he's doing.
Stubby: Maybe. You know I like to run for 2 on first down

[Patler]

McGinn's expert (see the thread I just started, said this:


"At the end of the day (Jeff) Janis is just going to be a guy. I don't see (Jared) Abbrederis."

Does that mean "a GUY", or "just a guy"?

[3irty1]

Given how tightly wound Stubby is, you should be happy they even threw that deep ball to Monty to start the game.

I'm guessing this stuff is far more clear in practices and meetings.

Stubby: Should we scheme a few deep balls for Janis?
Rodgers: Not a chance. He's not competitive enough on the sideline to present a reliable target
Stubby: How about just one?
Rodgers: Why not scheme one for Monty, at least he knows what the F he's doing.
Stubby: Maybe. You know I like to run for 2 on first down

This is about how I imagine it. Rodgers is pretty well known as a QB who demands the utmost of reliability and Janis just hasn't excelled at doing the small things that have become the hallmark of a GB receiver. The one shot Janis did get might be a carrot for his good work on special teams. As raw as Montgomery is he's already shown he can approach the game like a pro.

[run pMc]

Does that mean "a GUY", or "just a guy"?

I took it to mean he's JAG. I think Janis falls into the old thinking of WRs taking 3 years to really get it. Nowadays that's not so much the case, but the jump for Janis to the pros was a big adjustment. He might develop and the lightbulb go on, but he's got to get better and more reliable. I took the comment about Abbrederis (along with the brown rating in the color-rating article) to mean he's a no because of medical. Given he hasn't stayed healthy, I'd agree but hope I'm wrong. Knowing my luck he'll get released, picked up by the Vikings and play for 10 years.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Charles Johnson was let go because he wasn't showing enough. Look how he's done this season. It seems to me that the one thing this staff does get right is WRs.

[3irty1]

Charles Johnson was let go because he wasn't showing enough. Look how he's done this season. It seems to me that the one thing this staff does get right is WRs.

I thought Charles Johnson was poached off our PS by the Bengals and then promptly stashed on IR because their training staff found a knee injury that ours missed.

[SMBASS]

I thought Charles Johnson was poached off our PS by the Bengals and then promptly stashed on IR because their training staff found a knee injury that ours missed.

You're right 3irty1 but I believe it was the Browns who poached him and found the knee injury that our staff missed for some reason. Can't remember if the Queens signed him as a free agent or exactly how they got him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You're right 3irty1 but I believe it was the Browns who poached him and found the knee injury that our staff missed for some reason. Can't remember if the Queens signed him as a free agent or exactly how they got him.

The Vikings signed him off the Browns practice squad early last year.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I agree with Harlan, at least throw a few to him to see if he can step up in a game situation. If nothing else, in garbage time. Some players don't practice well.

[red]

its not like it takes an 8 year vet to run a "go" route

"ok, heres what we're gonna run, try and keep up"

"when the ball is snapped we want you to start running in a straight line as fast as you can"

"then, when the ball is thrown to you, catch it and keep running in a straight line"

"got it?"

[red]

and that is exactly what this team is missing

a few of those a game, even if they don't work, would help keep the D off the line

[ThunderDan]

its not like it takes an 8 year vet to run a "go" route

"ok, heres what we're gonna run, try and keep up"

"when the ball is snapped we want you to start running in a straight line as fast as you can"

"then, when the ball is thrown to you, catch it and keep running in a straight line"

"got it?"

Except they tried that and Janis let the CB squeeze him out of bounds. At least this week Monty stayed on the playing field.

[SMBASS]

Except they tried that and Janis let the CB squeeze him out of bounds. At least this week Monty stayed on the playing field.

Maybe they need to line him up in the slot instead of outside Dan. That way he'll have more real estate to work with as he's trying to keep from getting pushed off of the field!

[Rutnstrut]

So who would lose playing time to see if the Janis experiment would work?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Except they tried that and Janis let the CB squeeze him out of bounds.

One play he gets pushed out of bounds. This defines his potential to contribute?

People have been calling Janis "not ready" or "just a guy" based on almost nothing. It is not brain surgery, he can learn from mistakes and get better. He won't become a better receiver on kick coverage alone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So who would lose playing time to see if the Janis experiment would work?

Jared "Brownie" Abbrederis?

Actually, snaps would come from Monty, Jones. That's OK, they still get most snaps.


BTW, anybody frightened about trying Josh Walker and losing Barclay's services?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree with the Blue Dog...let the youngster gain some confidence, which I think he lacks. When I think of Janis, immediately the commercial with Luke McCown pops into my mind (where he's sitting on the Verizon tower). "I bet if they only had a chance, some of those backups would really shine." *sniff* *sniff*


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwF5tzFi11s

[Joemailman]

I agree with Harlan, at least throw a few to him to see if he can step up in a game situation. If nothing else, in garbage time. Some players don't practice well.

He needs to practice well to show he understands his responsibilities on offense. Established veterans don't need to practice well to get playing time. 7th round picks from Saginaw Valley State do.

[smuggler]

It's pretty clear the reliability factor is what's keeping Janis off the field. He's got the talent. But Green Bay's offense requires very tight synergy between the QB and his receivers. It's part of what makes James Jones coming back and being so effective so amazing. Doesn't hurt that Rodgers trusts ol' JJ.

[Guiness]

He needs to practice well to show he understands his responsibilities on offense. Established veterans don't need to practice well to get playing time. 7th round picks from Saginaw Valley State do.

Thank you, that sums it up.

Also, on the reliability side, do any of you really think Rodgers, he of the 4:1 TD to INT ratio, is going to heave the ball up to an unproven kid running a wheel or fly route, knowing there is a DB out there hawking for the ball and he can't be sure what's going to happen on a contested ball?

[MadScientist]

BTW, anybody frightened about trying Josh Walker and losing Barclay's services?
M3 probably. There is a reason he is not playing. As much as it's hard to imagine Walker being worse than Barclay, he could be the second coming of John Michels.

[smuggler]

Overall, at least on D, we've been doing a pretty good job of that. DRandall has the team lead with 5 pass breakups. Pennel is leading in tackles per snap. Elliott out there disrupting. Joe Thomas making a play or two...

[SMBASS]

Overall, at least on D, we've been doing a pretty good job of that. DRandall has the team lead with 5 pass breakups. Pennel is leading in tackles per snap. Elliott out there disrupting. Joe Thomas making a play or two...

I agree and think the key to the overall success of the D this year is that these young guys, (1st and 2nd yr.) continue to make plays and get better as the year progresses. They've all been playing pretty important roles these first few weeks and they've all been contributing. Obviously they're going to get burned periodically and make some mistakes. What I'm encouraged to see is a young guy like Randall get burned by a pretty darn good throw and catch on Sunday and then come back to knock down a critical 3rd down pass shortly after that. These guys are competing and I hope they have the gas to keep it up for a full schedule.

[Bossman641]

Packers have shown they are willing to play young players. TT and MM have also shown they know how to draft and play WR's. No way are they throwing Janis out there for meaningful snaps until he proves his reliability to Rodgers/MM.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He needs to practice well to show he understands his responsibilities on offense. Established veterans don't need to practice well to get playing time. 7th round picks from Saginaw Valley State do.

"Practice, practice, practice" is how you get to Carnegie Hall. What do you know about preparation, anyway? You're no Russell Wilson, Bro.

[Rutnstrut]

Jared "Brownie" Abbrederis?

Actually, snaps would come from Monty, Jones. That's OK, they still get most snaps.


BTW, anybody frightened about trying Josh Walker and losing Barclay's services?

I definitely don't agree to taking snaps away from Jones, there is no reason to decrease his snaps unless he starts to play poorly.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I definitely don't agree to taking snaps away from Jones, there is no reason to decrease his snaps unless he starts to play poorly.

Jones is slow. The Packers lack of a downfield threat is a weakness. If you are unwilling to risk a change, there is no hope of getting better.

[mraynrand]

Jones is slow. The Packers lack of a downfield threat is a weakness. If you are unwilling to risk a change, there is no hope of getting better.

Part of the risk/reward calculation are the consequences of a guy like Janis getting pushed off his route, making an incorrect read of the coverage, miscommunication with Rodgers, etc. etc. all of which can lead to turnovers and/or stalled drives. Much of this is stuff we cannot see - things in practice and meetings that tell the coaches and Rodgers whether they can trust Janis to do all these things correctly. We only get these little glimpses and what we've seen isn't great. Sorry, but preseason fourth quarter dominance doesn't translate to first quarter regular season. If the packers coaching staff and Rodgers had a history of poor assessment with regard to talent and readiness, I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt about not playing Janis.


(But if they sucked, Janis would be the least of our concerns!).

[George Cumby]

Randall is getting lots of playing time, so is DickRod, Linsley started his entire rookie season, Bakhtari started most of his rookie season, Dix started significant parts of his rookie season iirc, Lacy got huge playing time, starting iirc, on and on and on.

How does this team not give the young kids playing time?

I don't get the argument.

[ThunderDan]

One play he gets pushed out of bounds. This defines his potential to contribute?

People have been calling Janis "not ready" or "just a guy" based on almost nothing. It is not brain surgery, he can learn from mistakes and get better. He won't become a better receiver on kick coverage alone.

No, it doesn't define his potential. It is certainly an indicator of his potential. The guy has been on our roster for 2 years and that is the best route he can run there? Either our WR coach is horrible (I don't believe this for a second) or maybe Janis isn't the guy we hope he would be. It happens all the time in the NFL.

[Tony Oday]

If AR wanted him on the field he would be on the field.

[Fritz]

It's a long season; let's see if he doesn't get worked more and more into the mix as the season goes on. Apparently he was open over the middle on Sunday and Rodgers simply passed on the opportunity. But if the kid does things right, at some point AR will throw him the ball. If he catches it and does good things, he'll get another.

[Patler]

No, it doesn't define his potential. It is certainly an indicator of his potential. The guy has been on our roster for 2 years and that is the best route he can run there? Either our WR coach is horrible (I don't believe this for a second) or maybe Janis isn't the guy we hope he would be. It happens all the time in the NFL.

He has been on the Packer roster for one year and four games; he missed a chunk of his rookie camp due to shingles; and he was coming from from a much weaker background than many others. It might take more than a single year for him. Whereas people often look for a second year jump, Janis' fist year was taken getting him to the level that many other rookies are at when they come in. One article at the end of camp said that while he wasn't yet challenging for a lot of playing time, he was light years ahead of where he was at as a rookie, and his coaches were pleased with his progress. One predraft article said his route running ability was unknown, because in college all he did was use his size to get past defenders and his speed to out run them. I think the end of camp next year will better define if he has a future as a WR in the NFL or not.

From everything I've read, its consistency, not ability.


The Packers have worked with Janis to be more physical in escaping press-man coverage from much speedier cornerbacks, and there's tape of him doing exactly that.

"He has days where you come out there and say, 'Man, he's just throwing guys around,'" Van Pelt said. "Because he's being physical and using his strength. That's what you like to see."

Then, there was a rep in one-on-one's Aug. 7 where a strong safety, Morgan Burnett, prevented Janis from releasing in the bump zone and rode him into an incompletion.

His work as a gunner on the punt team should help that, and he seems to be doing very well at that. I have been surprised at how quickly he has been downfield sometimes, getting there not as the ball is getting there, but well before it gets there.

[Patler]

It's a long season; let's see if he doesn't get worked more and more into the mix as the season goes on. Apparently he was open over the middle on Sunday and Rodgers simply passed on the opportunity. But if the kid does things right, at some point AR will throw him the ball. If he catches it and does good things, he'll get another.

One article said it was a play in which Rodgers took a sack rather than throw to him. That leads me to three possible conclusions: 1.) Janis wasn't really as open as the writer thought, 2.) even though he was right in front of Rodgers, Rodgers didn't see him; or 3.) for some reason Rodgers didn't think he could make the throw.

[Fritz]

He has been on the Packer roster for one year and four games; he missed a chunk of his rookie camp due to shingles; and he was coming from from a much weaker background than many others. It might take more than a single year for him. Whereas people often look for a second year jump, Janis' fist year was taken getting him to the level that many other rookies are at when they come in. One article at the end of camp said that while he wasn't yet challenging for a lot of playing time, he was light years ahead of where he was at as a rookie, and his coaches were pleased with his progress. One predraft article said his route running ability was unknown, because in college all he did was use his size to get past defenders and his speed to out run them. I think the end of camp next year will better define if he has a future as a WR in the NFL or not.

From everything I've read, its consistency, not ability.



His work as a gunner on the punt team should help that, and he seems to be doing very well at that. I have been surprised at how quickly he has been downfield sometimes, getting there not as the ball is getting there, but well before it gets there.

Yup, that fist year would be a tough one.

[sharpe1027]

One article said it was a play in which Rodgers took a sack rather than throw to him. That leads me to three possible conclusions: 1.) Janis wasn't really as open as the writer thought, 2.) even though he was right in front of Rodgers, Rodgers didn't see him; or 3.) for some reason Rodgers didn't think he could make the throw.

4) It is possible that in the split second decision, Rodgers hesitated because he knew that it was Janis. Your conclusions seem more likely.

[mraynrand]

4) It is possible that in the split second decision, Rodgers hesitated because he knew that it was Janis. Your conclusions seem more likely.

5.) Maybe even though Janis was open when 'Scoops' was looking, he actually wasn't open the way he was supposed to be; that is, it's possible he ran the route wrong. Maybe he was supposed to keep running or set down in a zone or maybe he was too deep or to shallow. Unless someone knows exactly what the play called for and what Rodgers saw/was thinking, it's pretty hard to know. (Patler, this is a refinement of your '3')

[Harlan Huckleby]

How does this team not give the young kids playing time?

I don't get the argument.

Nobody made that argument. We're talking about Janis, and I'm talking to myself about Walker.

[Patler]

4) It is possible that in the split second decision, Rodgers hesitated because he knew that it was Janis. Your conclusions seem more likely.

I suppose, but what possible motivation would Rodgers have for taking a sack and intentionally freezing out Janis?

[Patler]

5.) Maybe even though Janis was open when 'Scoops' was looking, he actually wasn't open the way he was supposed to be; that is, it's possible he ran the route wrong. Maybe he was supposed to keep running or set down in a zone or maybe he was too deep or to shallow. Unless someone knows exactly what the play called for and what Rodgers saw/was thinking, it's pretty hard to know. (Patler, this is a refinement of your '3')

Similar to the reasons QBs sometimes get interceptions. A DB or LB ends up where he isn't expected to be, and the QB doesn't see him even though he is in plain view. In one of his interviews this past week, Rodgers was asked about his almost interception last week, he kind of chuckled and said, believe it or not, he flat out didn't see the linebacker, even though he threw it right to him.

[sharpe1027]

I suppose, but what possible motivation would Rodgers have for taking a sack and intentionally freezing out Janis?

It would not need to be intentional, and probably wouldn't be given the lack of time to really think it through. It could be a split second reaction. This happens to people all the time in sports, which is why trusting your training is so important. You don't have time to consciously think through every action.

Like I said, it doesn't seem like the most likely explanation.