The Defense and its improvement. Why?

[George Cumby]

This subject keeps coming up in other threads and I think it merits its own thread.

The defense has improved markedly it would seem.

Why is that? My scattershot take is its a combination of the following: better health, fewer blown assignments, better depth, Clay in the middle "full" time, no AJ Hawk (I alwyas liked him, but it's apparently addition by subtraction), no Brad Jones.

Or, is the premise flawed? Does the defense LOOK better but really isn't?

Thoughts?

[deake]

Not sure of how good we are, haven't really shut down anyone of real accord yet. Chicago ran up and down the field pretty well.

[sharpe1027]

Pass rush.

[George Cumby]

Ok. But why has the pass rush improved?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think they are better this year, mainly cause Raji is better. Plus, with Palmer, Thomas and Elliot at LB, there is more speed, range and pass rush/playmaking. Plus, the secondary hasn't seen the drop off I expected. It might even be faster and rangier than last year. Tackling seems better too.

On the other hand, it might be the Kool Aid I'm drinking.

[George Cumby]

Someone somewhere suggested that the improvement in pass rush was a ripple effect from the improvement in the run defense.

Pass that stuff over here when you are done.

[sharpe1027]

Ok. But why has the pass rush improved?

Not certain, but I would guess that it is down to having healthy players on the edge. Having a stouter middle might also be a factor because it keeps the QB from stepping up and might be freeing up the outside guys from having to crash down to help in the run game.

[ThunderDan]

BJ Raji.

He has played like a beast and is being doubled on almost every play. That allows Daniels to play 1-on-1. That keeps one of the guards off our ILBs. That helps the run defense.

We also have excellent depth on the DL and OLB. We are able to rotate fresh players into the game and don't see a drop in play.

[George Cumby]

Raji seems to be playing like a man possessed, that would certainly benefit both run and pass defense.

[Smidgeon]

I think it's because wist hasn't been around lately. There's a correlation there, I'm sure.

[sharpe1027]

I think it's because wist hasn't been around lately. There's a correlation there, I'm sure.

Chicken or the egg?

[Patler]

Matthews now causes more confusion than ever before. The defense was better when they flipped him between right and left for a while; now he can show up anywhere.

With Matthews in the middle, he has an impact to some extent on almost every running play, he is that fast and that good. Even if he is not involved in the tackle, he takes up blockers. He attracts attention and takes it away from others.

Raji being back makes the DL rotation better.
Raji having found the fountain of youth, and playing like he did in 2010 makes it even better.

Jayrone Elliot has simple made plays, even big plays. The kinds of plays that influence outcomes. I don't know if he can continue to do it, but so far it has made a difference.

Nick Perry being healthy (apparently) has made an effect. He has made at least one play of note in every game, even with relatively limited snaps.

Pass defense from middle linebackers through the first 4 games is much, much better than it was last year.

DBs are playing well, with no drop off from last year. The rookies so far have not played like rookies.

Perhaps overlooked, but a factor nonetheless: The offense has been more methodical, with fewer long strikes. This keeps the defense off the field, keeps them rested and requires them to play less.

[George Cumby]

So losing Jordy made the D better? i know that's an over simplification, but that's a conclusion that could be drawn from your last point.......

[sharpe1027]

So losing Jordy made the D better? i know that's an over simplification, but that's a conclusion that could be drawn from your last point.......

Statistically speaking, probably.

Often teams with supposedly great defenses (low total yards and points/game) are coupled with time-consuming grind it out offenses. These teams generally try to shorten the game by keeping the total plays down, leveling the playing field against better teams. The converse is also true, often teams with high-powered offenses have defenses with poor statistics in total yards and points/game. There are exceptions.

[bobblehead]

Matthews now causes more confusion than ever before. The defense was better when they flipped him between right and left for a while; now he can show up anywhere.

With Matthews in the middle, he has an impact to some extent on almost every running play, he is that fast and that good. Even if he is not involved in the tackle, he takes up blockers. He attracts attention and takes it away from others.
.

This and this and this. I made enemies when I said Clay was over rated as a pass rusher in the past, but what he does is EVERYTHING. Our ILB play was so abysmal, and when you are soft up the middle, you are soft everywhere. When Clay moved inside last season it was night and day. He solves every problem. Covering TE's and backs out of the backfield. Check. Shutting down the run game. Check. Unpredictable pass rusher who can come from inside, outside, crossing. Check.

In short, our 3-4 D has found its version of Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. Of course, the improvements of Perry, Neal and addition of Peppers has also helped the pass rush immensely which makes all DB's look better. But mainly its Clay in and Hawk out.

[bobblehead]

Perhaps overlooked, but a factor nonetheless: The offense has been more methodical, with fewer long strikes. This keeps the defense off the field, keeps them rested and requires them to play less.

Oh yea, a run game. This is also a factor. And surprising to everyone, now that the OL is run blocking well, we miraculously found two backs that can run effectively. I know, I know, its the RB, not the OL.

[sharpe1027]

This and this and this. I made enemies when I said Clay was over rated as a pass rusher in the past, but what he does is EVERYTHING. Our ILB play was so abysmal, and when you are soft up the middle, you are soft everywhere. When Clay moved inside last season it was night and day. He solves every problem. Covering TE's and backs out of the backfield. Check. Shutting down the run game. Check. Unpredictable pass rusher who can come from inside, outside, crossing. Check.

In short, our 3-4 D has found its version of Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. Of course, the improvements of Perry, Neal and addition of Peppers has also helped the pass rush immensely which makes all DB's look better. But mainly its Clay in and Hawk out.

+1

I've had that same discussion with other fans. It never ended well. I totally agree that his overall value is so much more now that he is being asked to do more than rush almost all of the time.

[pbmax]

Matthews now causes more confusion than ever before. The defense was better when they flipped him between right and left for a while; now he can show up anywhere.

With Matthews in the middle, he has an impact to some extent on almost every running play, he is that fast and that good. Even if he is not involved in the tackle, he takes up blockers. He attracts attention and takes it away from others.

Raji being back makes the DL rotation better.
Raji having found the fountain of youth, and playing like he did in 2010 makes it even better.

Jayrone Elliot has simple made plays, even big plays. The kinds of plays that influence outcomes. I don't know if he can continue to do it, but so far it has made a difference.

Nick Perry being healthy (apparently) has made an effect. He has made at least one play of note in every game, even with relatively limited snaps.

Pass defense from middle linebackers through the first 4 games is much, much better than it was last year.

DBs are playing well, with no drop off from last year. The rookies so far have not played like rookies.

Perhaps overlooked, but a factor nonetheless: The offense has been more methodical, with fewer long strikes. This keeps the defense off the field, keeps them rested and requires them to play less.

All true, but I would start with Peppers being a threat beyond any other pass rusher they previously employed opposite Matthews.

But your points are still relevant since even Peppers presence didn't lead to a lot of Clay sacks until he moved into the middle.

Neal was healthy last year (mostly) and this year he and Perry are healthy. Plus Elliot. Plus a healthy Jones.

[pbmax]

One of McGinn's big contributions from the last few years were the numbers he had on Clay beating Tackles for sacks since his rookie year. It was a small percentage of his pressures. Bobble is right, he is better being everywhere.

[Pugger]

Not sure of how good we are, haven't really shut down anyone of real accord yet. Chicago ran up and down the field pretty well.

Yes, we struggled corralling Forte but we did contain Lynch, Charles and Hyde and these guys are no slouches.

[Pugger]

BJ Raji.

He has played like a beast and is being doubled on almost every play. That allows Daniels to play 1-on-1. That keeps one of the guards off our ILBs. That helps the run defense.

We also have excellent depth on the DL and OLB. We are able to rotate fresh players into the game and don't see a drop in play.

It also helps to have D. Jones and Perry healthy too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Clay isn't overrated as a pass rusher. He's a great pass rusher. But the Packers have four other good pass rushers at OLB - while they don't have anybody that can come close to what Clay can do at ILB.

[Patler]

All true, but I would start with Peppers being a threat beyond any other pass rusher they previously employed opposite Matthews.

But your points are still relevant since even Peppers presence didn't lead to a lot of Clay sacks until he moved into the middle.

Neal was healthy last year (mostly) and this year he and Perry are healthy. Plus Elliot. Plus a healthy Jones.

I thought about Peppers, but discounted him for purposes of this discussion, because he was here last year, doing what he does. Peppers doesn't explain the difference from last year to this, but differences in those around him do.

[smuggler]

I think the obvious answer is the play of both Raji and Pennell. The the down linemen are playing as I have not seen since we went to the 3-4.

[pbmax]

I think the obvious answer is the play of both Raji and Pennell. The the down linemen are playing as I have not seen since we went to the 3-4.

Pennel hasn't supplied pass rush though. But I do think this fits into the run D has improved so the pass rush has had more of an impact. The interior run D hasn't been this good since 09 and 10.

[vince]

I don't know how obvious it is smug, but I think that's a big one. There's more speed and impact with the linebacking crew for sure, but a lot of times it's the inside guys who make them shine.

Taking on double-teams and stuffing runs on early downs has consistently forced more advantageous down and distance situations. They've also been good engaging two linemen rushing and making it really tough for them to pick up stunting/blitzing backers. Guion's really good at that too, which is why he immediately came in and took most of Pennel's snaps last week.

If they can do their job this week, hopefully they'll be able to help the rest of the D keep Gurley from getting any space to get going. And Foles can't run, but he can move in the pocket to buy time and do damage if allowed. If the inside guys can push and shrink the pocket so the outside guys and backers can finish, this could be a solid win. But if Gurley gets space and Foles buys time sliding around in the pocket, the Rams could make this one really tough.

You can say it every game to some extent, but this game especially, how the interior lines match up may determine the outcome. Of course Rodgers makes everything a hell of a lot tougher on the opponent's d-line so hopefully that's the difference.

[Patler]

The defense has improved markedly it would seem.

Why is that?

Maybe part of the answer is McCarthy.
Maybe he gives an OC's perspective to the defensive planning, making them better prepared:




He says he now spends more time during the week in defensive and special teams meetings. He also meets longer with each coordinator individually to go over the game plan, especially in their final talk on Friday afternoons.

And every week on either Wednesday or Thursday, McCarthy delivers a short presentation in the team defensive meeting to offer his perspective on the offense its facing that week. He never had time to study that as a play caller.

[vince]

Nice. That's gotta help. It does seem that the D hasn't been caught in bad situations very often. In fact, I'd say you could say they've had pretty solid schemes most games. I thought I read somewhere that the team's analytics guy retired. They should hire two people to replace him.

[swede]

One of McGinn's big contributions from the last few years were the numbers he had on Clay beating Tackles for sacks since his rookie year. It was a small percentage of his pressures. Bobble is right, he is better being everywhere.

It dawned on me while discussing Clay's new role with another fan that Clay might well play middle linebacker, if given the chance in a 4-3 defense, almost identically to Brian Urlacher.

Aren't they similar in size, speed, motor, athleticism and ball skills?

[smuggler]

Urlacher had better top speed at his peak. Clay with better balance and quickness. Hard to compare any coverage LB favorably to Urlacher, but Clay is the better pass rusher.

Neither are big hitters or particularly noteworthy for their tackling. IMO Clay is the better overall player, but Urlacher didn't suffer injuries as often. Can't fault the comparison.

[MadScientist]

Against Chicago, they looked like crap.
Against Seattle they looked good, but everybody is shutting down Seattle's offense. Even the Bears held them to 3 for a half, when their offense looked like JV backups.
KC was a good game, but KC's been pretty mediocre this year.
SF - Facing a QB who throws at receivers' feet will really make a defense look good.

On the other hand, Raji has looked really good. Mathews has been all over the place. Perry and Daniels are getting after the QB. Shields and the rookies are covering well and making plays. There haven't been many glaring WTF plays, and Dom simplifying the calls probably helped that.

So there's reason for optimism, but enough unknowns that we can't say how good they are for a while.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think they hit a tipping point of excellent players. Also you have a lot of young guys aging into their prime, 2 to 5 years in league.

[vince]

Here's an article by McGinn (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/newly-nasty-run-defense-sets-tone-for-packers-b99593129z1-331904641.html) about the interior d-line setting the tone against the run and transforming the defense. Without Hawk to keep clean behind them, the d-line is more free to penetrate and make plays on ball carriers to force tougher down and distance situations and then unleash the pass rushers.


Protecting the inside linebackers was a way of life for the defensive linemen of the Green Bay Packers in their first six years under the current coaching staff.

It was the only way coordinator Dom Capers probably thought the run defense could hold up with A.J. Hawk and other lightweights stationed at inside linebacker.


For a multitude of reasons, the run defense died from Game 8 on in 2013 through Game 8 of 2014. In those 18 games, foes rushed for 156.1 per game and 5.01 per carry.

In 14 games with Matthews inside, those totals are 106.4 and 4.26. If you care to throw out the 199 yards gained by quarterbacks this year, the four-game yields are 65.3 and 4.02.

[sharpe1027]

Clay isn't overrated as a pass rusher. He's a great pass rusher. But the Packers have four other good pass rushers at OLB - while they don't have anybody that can come close to what Clay can do at ILB.

Well, I am not disagreeing he is great pass rusher, but he can still be overrated. I meant mostly based on his salary, but I admit that its hard to quantify. Since moving inside he's done a lot more to justify his salary, IMO.

[pbmax]

Well, I am not disagreeing he is great pass rusher, but he can still be overrated. I meant mostly based on his salary, but I admit that its hard to quantify. Since moving inside he's done a lot more to justify his salary, IMO.

He is overrated as a wide, OLB/DE rusher versus tackles. He is a great rusher almost anywhere else.

[pbmax]

Here's an article by McGinn (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/newly-nasty-run-defense-sets-tone-for-packers-b99593129z1-331904641.html) about the interior d-line setting the tone against the run and transforming the defense. Without Hawk to keep clean behind them, the d-line is more free to penetrate and make plays on ball carriers to force tougher down and distance situations and then unleash the pass rushers.

I was going to write that Jim Haslett's calling card in Pittsburgh, compared to Dom and Dick was heavier ILBs. But I think I am the victim of narrative there. Levon Kirkland, even if you lined him up next to Alvin Garrett (Smurf, Fun Bunch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fun_Bunch)) would make your ILB corps bigger. SO it might have been Haslett's preference, but Kirkland was drafted in 1992, started in 1993 and Haslett showed up in 1997.

So I am tempted to conclude that Bob is suffering from the same affliction here. If you don't think Capers was still protecting a man who had never played ILB professionally before when he switched his positions during the bye week last year, you may be delusional. And it should be noted no one hinted at the scheme change while Barrington was the starter. Palmer could not have been a factor since he had not even earned a job in the offseason.

The reason for the change in fortunes on run D was the difference between Matthews play and later period Hawk or Brad Jones. Not scheme.

The is also another reason penetration numbers may have gone up. Raji is back, and that is his game. He used to do that even with Hawk and Bishop behind him.

So Bob is concluding a scheme alteration based on 3 games. Its possible that Capers an Trgo are calling a different D, but I need more evidence and numbers about penetration.

[pbmax]

Also this:


After the vicious and explosive Desmond Bishop suffered what in effect was a career-ending thigh injury in August 2012, the Packers spent almost three full seasons both trying to hide and making excuses for Hawk and most of his fellow nonentities inside.

Anyone remember the run D numbers from 2011 with the vicious and explosive Bishop?

Facing the 5th fewest attempts (383), they yielded the 16th most yards (1789) for a 26th rank in yards per carry (4.7 allowed).

[gbgary]

better secondary= better pass rush. better up the middle with clay, raji, & co., has helped the run d. one other thing...heard/read many times about a new nastyness. don't know who brought that but it's cool to have. i don't want them to become cheap-shot artists like sea but as long as it's legal (not killing us with penalties) it's cool.

[pbmax]

From McGinn as well:


"We really haven't been the old two-gap deal for a while now. We feel we've got some good athletes. We want guys to make plays. We don't want them to be robots."

After he notes he has been working with Raji since his return on releasing off blocks. Trgovac has also said in the past they don't two gap nearly as much as people seem to think.

So while McGinn paraphrases Pickett as saying the overriding message from the coaches was to protect the ILBs, I am not sure that has been the case for some time.

[gbgary]

Gurley was a load today but if you take his 55 yd out he got 104 in 29 attempts...not so bad.

[sharpe1027]

He is overrated as a wide, OLB/DE rusher versus tackles. He is a great rusher almost anywhere else.

Yes.

[SMBASS]

He is overrated as a wide, OLB/DE rusher versus tackles. He is a great rusher almost anywhere else.

I agree pb. Clay usually gets fairly easily engulfed and neutralized when he has to rush against tackles straight up off of the edge. He's much more effective when you can move him around and the offense doesn't know exactly where he'll be coming from.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Clay is a great rusher wherever you put him. He's been a great rusher, and that's mostly been outside. People act like he's supposed to get a sack every play. Sometimes, the other guy blocking him is good too. Sometimes, a great rusher gets doubled. Sometimes, the opposing QB throws quickly or has a quick release. Clay deservedly got paid because he's been one of the best outside rushers in the league.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Rams have the best pass rushing DLs in the league. Houston and Hali before are gteat. Those guys get blocked too. The way offenses are set up nowadays, it's hard to get consistent pressure. The best rushers now make a few disruptive or game changing plays per game - like Quinn's sack and forced fumble.

[sharpe1027]

Clay is a great rusher wherever you put him. He's been a great rusher, and that's mostly been outside. People act like he's supposed to get a sack every play. Sometimes, the other guy blocking him is good too. Sometimes, a great rusher gets doubled. Sometimes, the opposing QB throws quickly or has a quick release. Clay deservedly got paid because he's been one of the best outside rushers in the league.

As I said, the conversation about Clay seldom ends well. I'm not getting into it again, but he's a great rusher of the passer. I disagree that he justified his salary until they moved him inside part time. Let's just leave it alone.

[mraynrand]

As I said, the conversation about Clay seldom ends well. I'm not getting into it again, but he's a great rusher of the passer. I disagree that he justified his salary until they moved him inside part time. Let's just leave it alone.

I agree, sort of. because they kept throwing him at the LT, his usefulness was diminished. That was on the coaches. Clay's best attribute is that very quick burst speed, so it helps to create mismatches for him/ line him up in gaps, etc.

[Pugger]

Matthews now causes more confusion than ever before. The defense was better when they flipped him between right and left for a while; now he can show up anywhere.

With Matthews in the middle, he has an impact to some extent on almost every running play, he is that fast and that good. Even if he is not involved in the tackle, he takes up blockers. He attracts attention and takes it away from others.

Raji being back makes the DL rotation better.
Raji having found the fountain of youth, and playing like he did in 2010 makes it even better.

Jayrone Elliot has simple made plays, even big plays. The kinds of plays that influence outcomes. I don't know if he can continue to do it, but so far it has made a difference.

Nick Perry being healthy (apparently) has made an effect. He has made at least one play of note in every game, even with relatively limited snaps.

Pass defense from middle linebackers through the first 4 games is much, much better than it was last year.

DBs are playing well, with no drop off from last year. The rookies so far have not played like rookies.

Perhaps overlooked, but a factor nonetheless: The offense has been more methodical, with fewer long strikes. This keeps the defense off the field, keeps them rested and requires them to play less.

I'd add having several D linemen to rotate in and out of their keeping them fresh has helped our defense too.

[sharpe1027]

I agree, sort of. because they kept throwing him at the LT, his usefulness was diminished. That was on the coaches. Clay's best attribute is that very quick burst speed, so it helps to create mismatches for him/ line him up in gaps, etc.

Thanks, sort of. He is an absolute nightmare for offenses with how he is being used now.

[deake]

Watching the Monday night countdown, they showed the Pack allowing 5 yds per rushing attempt, 2nd most in the league. Is that an improvement from last year?

[esoxx]

Cue wist in 3...2...1...

[Joemailman]

Watching the Monday night countdown, they showed the Pack allowing 5 yds per rushing attempt, 2nd most in the league. Is that an improvement from last year?

Statistically no. But except for the 1st half against the Bears, they've been able to stop the run when they had to. Rams had a lot of rushing yards yesterday after falling behind by 2 scores, probably in an attempt to keep Nick Foles alive. So, they got yards, but not points. Packers have given up about 200 yards rushing to opposing QB's. I think they've missed Burnett there. Also, Packers have faced Matt Forte, Marshawn Lynch, Jamaal Charles, and Gurley, I'll bet few if any teams have faced the caliber of RB's they've faced.

[ThunderDan]

Watching the Monday night countdown, they showed the Pack allowing 5 yds per rushing attempt, 2nd most in the league. Is that an improvement from last year?

Probably not. The D got gassed in the second half with the O playing poorly. That said still 5th in total yardage and 2nd scoring defense is a big improvement.

[run pMc]

Gurley's 55 yard run boosted his average significantly. Fisher ran him like he used to run Eddie George...30 carries, yikes. They had to, Foles was getting killed and not playing well because of it.
Personally, I'm happy they kept Gurley out of the end zone. points >>> yards.

[deake]

Well this week we get to find out if the Pack’s pass defense has improved as we face our first upper echelon QB. Now of course if the Bolts OL was healthy it would be a better test.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well this week we get to find out if the Pack’s pass defense has improved as we face our first upper echelon QB. Now of course if the Bolts OL was healthy it would be a better test.

You could say the same thing about the health of our defense with Boyd, Barrington, Perry, Burnett, Richardson, maybe Raji being out. As far as I know, none of their OL have been ruled out. Two are out with a concussion, so they could be back this week. The other two had ankle injuries and could play this week.

[deake]

Well this week we get to find out if the Pack’s pass defense has improved as we face our first upper echelon QB. Now of course if the Bolts OL was healthy it would be a better test.

Was at the game, looks like the D has a little work to do yet. Play after play Allen had seperation from Sam. It reminded me of the Bears game.

[Smidgeon]

Did wist show up in the game day thread?

[pbmax]

No, now I am really worried about him.

ANKLE BITER!

[denverYooper]

Was at the game, looks like the D has a little work to do yet. Play after play Allen had seperation from Sam. It reminded me of the Bears game.

Shields was on Floyd most of the time. The Chargers kept getting Allen matched up on the other corners.

[Joemailman]

Shields was on Floyd most of the time. The Chargers kept getting Allen matched up on the other corners.

According to McGinn, Allen was beating Shields too.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/333923701.html


Willowy and precise, Allen caught five for 76 against Sam Shields and four for 40 against Damarious Randall. Just one of the passes thrown to him wasn't complete.

"He's a dynamic guy and he runs really good routes," Packers defensive back Micah Hyde said. "We went with a lot of man-up against him. We kind of told ourselves that we had good enough DB's and were going to match up against him.

"We played it straight. They got the best of us."

[Pugger]

Allen is the kind of WR who gives every DB fits.

[George Cumby]

From a holistic standpoint; Raji and other important cogs out of the defense, the offense greatly depleted, I'm not overly concerned about this game. The other team is paid, Rivers is a good QB, Allen is legit as is Gates. Does anyone think the game would have been this close had Raji been on the field?

[bobblehead]

From a holistic standpoint; Raji and other important cogs out of the defense, the offense greatly depleted, I'm not overly concerned about this game. The other team is paid, Rivers is a good QB, Allen is legit as is Gates. Does anyone think the game would have been this close had Raji been on the field?

This game wasn't close. We won by a TD. We have won every game by at least a TD. Still can't win a close one, this team blows!

[Pugger]

bobble, I know you were trying to be funny but we were 3 yards away from OT on Sunday but a big play by Peppers and Randall saved the day.

[deake]

Allen is the kind of WR who gives every DB fits.

Sam didn't seem to jam him at the line, I would think with the short passing game, jaming him at the line would have thrown off the timing. Maybe a change to Gunter who seemed to do well in press coverage would have worked?

[pbmax]

This game wasn't close. We won by a TD. We have won every game by at least a TD. Still can't win a close one, this team blows!


bobble, I know you were trying to be funny but we were 3 yards away from OT on Sunday but a big play by Peppers and Randall saved the day.

He's just tweaking Bedard and Silverstein, I don't think Bobble thinks they were winning going away.

But it should also be noted once again Packers failed to come from behind to win.

[mraynrand]

Sam didn't seem to jam him at the line, I would think with the short passing game, jaming him at the line would have thrown off the timing. Maybe a change to Gunter who seemed to do well in press coverage would have worked?

You think Gunter is better at press coverage than the guys the packers have out there? OK

Still, I think it was a strategic decision that failed. Go man up, but play off to avoid the big play, and allow for doubling of Gates or whomever. None of it really worked.

Allen getting dinged up was a stroke of luck, otherwise he catches 20 for 250.

[pbmax]

I think 3irty1 is right, you have to rush no more than 4, 3 when its 3rd and long. Then you play 3 or 4 men in the under area in zone to knock the bejesus out of any crossing route.

But the coverage must be disguised, or they will switch the routes.

[smuggler]

Rand, do you think any of the other corners are near as good at jamming off the line than Gunter? Because other than Gunter they're basically incapable of accomplishing a jam.

[mraynrand]

Rand, do you think any of the other corners are near as good at jamming off the line than Gunter? Because other than Gunter they're basically incapable of accomplishing a jam.

I dunno really, but I suspect so.

I think it's obvious that the coaches don't want the db's to jam/bump and run. But it looks like more than that. Like they are having them lay off to prevent the deep ball.

If they do that, SD or anyone else should just run the same pattern over and over and pick up 5-8 yards every play. If you counter by rushing 3, you can drop guys into those passing lanes maybe and get some knock downs or tips, but the danger is having all day to throw which allows for double even triple moves. An accurate QB with an arm will tear that crap apart.

[deake]

Was at the game, looks like the D has a little work to do yet. Play after play Allen had seperation from Sam. It reminded me of the Bears game.

Looks like the D still needs a little work, lack of a pass rush exposed the rookie corners. On the plus side they should improve as the season goes along.