"Packer People"....or not.

[Patler]

More detail on Letroy Guion's recent (and earlier) run-ins with the legal system:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-letroy-guion-has-faced-drug-gun-domestic-violence-charges-b99595657z1-336695811.html

[Joemailman]

Not. And unfortunately, you don't get the sense there's anybody in his family that is going to steer him in the right direction. His father is worse. Packers can try, but it's hard to have influence on guys like this once the offseason begins. With the emergence of Mike Pennel, wouldn't be surprised if the Packers let him walk away after this year.

Interesting that it took the new reporter on the Packers beat, Michael Cohen, to dig into Guion's past.

[Freak Out]

LOL. At least he has the good stuff.

[wist43]

Pot shouldn't be illegal; the government has no legitimate power to seize his money, truck, or gun; and who cares about his past? I thought this was supposed to be the land of opportunity - and forgiveness, 2nd chances and all that altruistic bullshit??

[Joemailman]

Pot shouldn't be illegal; the government has no legitimate power to seize his money, truck, or gun; and who cares about his past? I thought this was supposed to be the land of opportunity - and forgiveness, 2nd chances and all that altruistic bullshit??

That may all be true, but the reality is that he has a history of off the field activity that will get him suspended. Unless you're self-employed, you sometimes have to adhere to rules that you may not agree with. The Packers will have to decide whether keeping him is worth the possibility of him getting suspended in the future. So far they've decided it is.

[Pugger]

Can the league punish a player for something he did years ago while on another team?

[Patler]

Pot shouldn't be illegal; the government has no legitimate power to seize his money, truck, or gun; and who cares about his past? I thought this was supposed to be the land of opportunity - and forgiveness, 2nd chances and all that altruistic bullshit??

Unfortunately for Guion, we aren't permitted to disregard the laws we don't agree with. Forgiveness follows from penance and repentance, it doesn't attach to unrepentant repeat offenders. A just criminal justice system should care about a criminal's past from both exculpatory and inculpatory perspectives.

I find the "facts" as presented by both sides in these situations to be very interesting. The article summarizes the officers justification for the stop this way


Late on Feb. 3, Officer Ashley Cisco of the Starke Police Department neared the end of an all-day shift and planned to stop at the Kangaroo Express convenience store before driving home.

As he traveled down Old Lawtey Road, which cuts through the town of fewer than 6,000 residents, Cisco saw a black truck slowly cross the double yellow line, then cross it again. He smelled marijuana, according to the arrest report, and saw smoke wafting from the vehicle.

The officers deposition is linked in the article:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2474238-deposition-cisco-2-11-15.html

The officer was driving and came up behind Guion's truck. He said he saw it swerve, and he smelled marijuana. So, the officer was in his vehicle, some distance behind Guion as both traveled down the street at about the speed limit, "maybe a little less" (officer's words) and the officer could smell marijuana? He repeated several times about smelling the strong odor of marijuana while he was driving behind Guion. Now, I recognize that marijuana has a strong, distinctive odor, but smelling it in a trailing vehicle while driving even at 25 miles an hour seems a bit unbelievable to me. Guion must have been puffing up a storm, even with the cop following him, for the smell to carry back while the vehicles were moving.

The officer admitted they found no paraphernalia in the truck, and no other collectible evidence of anyone smoking. He saw Guion throw nothing out of the vehicle as he followed it. So, the officer saw smoke wafting out of the vehicle, enough so that the smell was strong and detectable in the officer's vehicle as they drove down the road, yet the inside of Guion's truck had no collectible evidence of anyone smoking in it? Is this believable?

Guion claims to have been swerving to avoid potholes, that the nearly one pound of marijuana was his summer stash, and that the $190K of cash was from cashing his Packers check.

Guion's salary was $42,941/week. He had a roster bonus of 100K. If the bonus was a weekly roster bonus, it would be $5882/week for a total pay of $48,823/week. The cash in his truck was 4 weeks pay. Possible, I guess, but hoarding nearly 1/4 of your gross income as cash in your truck seems a bit odd, but certainly possible. However, the government confiscating it just because it is not normal seems wrong. Same for the truck and th unloaded gun found in a latched case underneath a seat. For the government to confiscate a quarter million dollars from a guy with less than a pound of weed doesn't sound right.

Many interesting factors in Guion's case.

[pbmax]

These two sentences:


A Starke police sergeant said in a deposition that informants told authorities Guion was involved in the drug trade and bankrolled dealers, some of whom were his relatives. The drugs sold included marijuana, cocaine and crack cocaine, according to Sgt. Jason Crosby's deposition in a forfeiture case involving Guion's truck and $190,000.

Should be treated with great suspicion. Informant testimony is almost always problematic. And if anyone in the upper echelon's of Starke's Police Department or AG/city attorney's office thought that it was true and provable, he never would have received the plea deal he did.

It sounds much more like the after the fact justification of the seizure of his property, originally including the cash and truck. Guion is now fighting in court to get them back as I recall. And this reads like an attempt to smear him in advance of that proceeding.

I'm with wist. These seizure's in general are ridiculous.

For the OP, his teammates seem to think he is Packer people. I'm am not impressed with his father, but I am more concerned about the violence and stalking charges.

[HowardRoark]

Hoarding cash was something my grandma did too; and she smelled odd sometimes. She'd be thrown in jail all the time nowadays.

[Fritz]

These two sentences:



Should be treated with great suspicion. Informant testimony is almost always problematic. And if anyone in the upper echelon's of Starke's Police Department or AG/city attorney's office thought that it was true and provable, he never would have received the plea deal he did.

It sounds much more like the after the fact justification of the seizure of his property, originally including the cash and truck. Guion is now fighting in court to get them back as I recall. And this reads like an attempt to smear him in advance of that proceeding.

I'm with wist. These seizure's in general are ridiculous.

For the OP, his teammates seem to think he is Packer people. I'm am not impressed with his father, but I am more concerned about the violence and stalking charges.


Why not? And why did a previous poster suggest Guion will get no guidance from his family?

His father has clearly given him guidance - Leroy knows what the good marijuana is, and how to procure it. The fact that Leroy is bringing his father marijuana shows he's not just another selfish athlete, caring only about himself. He's sharing the riches he enjoys as an NFL player with his father.

And he's not just throwing him some cash, or some gift card. That shit is so thoughtless. Clearly, Leroy knows what his father likes, and has presented him, when he comes home, with a high-quality, thoughtful gift.

Additonally, Leroy's dad was there, at the station, to help Leroy out after his arrest. Think of how many parents wouldn't even bother with that. The man wants to help his son.

He is also honest. Although he knows marijuana, used for non-medical purposes, is illegal, he forthrightly spoke to the police officer about his son's marijuana quality. He didn't try to lie at all.

It sounds to me like these two have a strong father-son relationship.

I don't know what is the matter with you people.

[red]

i think the term "packer people" has changed over the years

it now seems to mean, a player who is good enough and cheap enough, the character issue seems to have gone out the window

last off season we had two high profile run ins with the law, guion, and quarless and his little episode in a parking garage. both would have been gone the second news hit the masses if the old "packer people" thing was still in place

in short, i think we need to forget about what we think of when we here the term "packer people"

[Fritz]

Yet one complaint that used to thread through discussions of the Packers was that the Packers weren't mean enough, that Ted didn't take any character chances - to the detriment of the team - and that as long as a guy could play, who cared what he was lik?

But now it's an issue for some people? Hmmm.

It's the bye week. So they dug up some stuff.

I'm going to get high now and steal some stuff from a ten year old.

[Patler]

Can the league punish a player for something he did years ago while on another team?

I doubt that a player's current team affiliation affects it at all. As for timing, I would imagine it depends on when the league became aware, or should have been aware. In Guion's case, the civil suit from the domestic violence was reported at least as early as last spring/summer; before his suspension was announced. The domestic violence charges against Guion were resolved years ago. Without new charges, it seems unlikely another suspension would come from those incidents.

[Joemailman]

i think the term "packer people" has changed over the years

it now seems to mean, a player who is good enough and cheap enough, the character issue seems to have gone out the window

last off season we had two high profile run ins with the law, guion, and quarless and his little episode in a parking garage. both would have been gone the second news hit the masses if the old "packer people" thing was still in place

in short, i think we need to forget about what we think of when we here the term "packer people"

I'm not sure what the term "packer people" referred to begin with. Did it mean players who never get in trouble, or did it mean team-oriented players? If it's the latter, I think the term still applies to the Packers more than a lot of other teams. The Packers have shown a willingness to give character risks a chance with late round draft picks and to a lesser extent free agent pickups. In the early (1-3) rounds of the draft though, the Packers definitely go with guys with solid reputations.

[pbmax]

Why not? And why did a previous poster suggest Guion will get no guidance from his family?

His father has clearly given him guidance - Leroy knows what the good marijuana is, and how to procure it. The fact that Leroy is bringing his father marijuana shows he's not just another selfish athlete, caring only about himself. He's sharing the riches he enjoys as an NFL player with his father.

And he's not just throwing him some cash, or some gift card. That shit is so thoughtless. Clearly, Leroy knows what his father likes, and has presented him, when he comes home, with a high-quality, thoughtful gift.

Additonally, Leroy's dad was there, at the station, to help Leroy out after his arrest. Think of how many parents wouldn't even bother with that. The man wants to help his son.

He is also honest. Although he knows marijuana, used for non-medical purposes, is illegal, he forthrightly spoke to the police officer about his son's marijuana quality. He didn't try to lie at all.

It sounds to me like these two have a strong father-son relationship.

I don't know what is the matter with you people.

All fair points.

But I was referring more to the mentions of the father's own arrests for dealing. Now in Florida, its seems that certain levels of possession and delivery overlap in a single felony, so to be fair I should have pointed out that its not clear at all that Cohen or the authorities know his Dad to be a dealer based on the info in the article.

So I should have put a big caveat in there anyway.

[Patler]

Some teams are more willing to take on players with volatile personalities, questionable backgrounds, character risks. Some are less willing, but no team avoids them completely. The packers seem to extend their risk to misdirected "nice guys", passionate football players who are good in the locker room, even if troubled a bit outside of it. I think they navigate it well, in view of the small community in which they operate. There's not a lot of flamboyance on the Packers, because flamboyant players would neither fit in, nor be very content in GB.

But "holier than thou" is not now and never has been a significant component in defining "Packer people."

[pbmax]

I'm not sure what the term "packer people" referred to begin with. Did it mean players who never get in trouble, or did it mean team-oriented players? If it's the latter, I think the term still applies to the Packers more than a lot of other teams. The Packers have shown a willingness to give character risks a chance with late round draft picks and to a lesser extent free agent pickups. In the early (1-3) rounds of the draft though, the Packers definitely go with guys with solid reputations.


Didn't M3 start Packer People?

[KYPack]

A friend indeed is a friend with good weed.

[Joemailman]

Didn't M3 start Packer People?

Okay, you made me Google it. Interesting article from 2012. Back then it was already being questioned as to how to define it.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packer-people-still-relevant-players-say-l86fcf3-166206426.html


Packer people.

It's a catchy and clever little phrase Mike McCarthy introduced on Jan. 12, 2006 - the day he was hired as Green Bay's 14th head coach.

"You have to create that stable structure . . . look for the right type of Packer people," McCarthy told the media that day. "Chemistry and character needs to be concentrated on at all times."


"The whole Packer people thing - it's something that really doesn't need to be laid out to you, stressed to you," tight end Tom Crabtree said. "It's kind of something that's constantly around you and you're always reminded of.

"As far as players go, it's guys that are going to show up for work each day, kind of do what's asked of them, team guys, team-first guys.

"And maybe even guys outside of football that embrace the community, embrace the fans. It's kind of understood that each guy has a role and to kind of embrace that role."

[bobblehead]

Unfortunately for Guion, we aren't permitted to disregard the laws we don't agree with. Forgiveness follows from penance and repentance, it doesn't attach to unrepentant repeat offenders. A just criminal justice system should care about a criminal's past from both exculpatory and inculpatory perspectives.

I find the "facts" as presented by both sides in these situations to be very interesting. The article summarizes the officers justification for the stop this way



The officers deposition is linked in the article:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2474238-deposition-cisco-2-11-15.html

The officer was driving and came up behind Guion's truck. He said he saw it swerve, and he smelled marijuana. So, the officer was in his vehicle, some distance behind Guion as both traveled down the street at about the speed limit, "maybe a little less" (officer's words) and the officer could smell marijuana? He repeated several times about smelling the strong odor of marijuana while he was driving behind Guion. Now, I recognize that marijuana has a strong, distinctive odor, but smelling it in a trailing vehicle while driving even at 25 miles an hour seems a bit unbelievable to me. Guion must have been puffing up a storm, even with the cop following him, for the smell to carry back while the vehicles were moving.

The officer admitted they found no paraphernalia in the truck, and no other collectible evidence of anyone smoking. He saw Guion throw nothing out of the vehicle as he followed it. So, the officer saw smoke wafting out of the vehicle, enough so that the smell was strong and detectable in the officer's vehicle as they drove down the road, yet the inside of Guion's truck had no collectible evidence of anyone smoking in it? Is this believable?

Guion claims to have been swerving to avoid potholes, that the nearly one pound of marijuana was his summer stash, and that the $190K of cash was from cashing his Packers check.

Guion's salary was $42,941/week. He had a roster bonus of 100K. If the bonus was a weekly roster bonus, it would be $5882/week for a total pay of $48,823/week. The cash in his truck was 4 weeks pay. Possible, I guess, but hoarding nearly 1/4 of your gross income as cash in your truck seems a bit odd, but certainly possible. However, the government confiscating it just because it is not normal seems wrong. Same for the truck and th unloaded gun found in a latched case underneath a seat. For the government to confiscate a quarter million dollars from a guy with less than a pound of weed doesn't sound right.

Many interesting factors in Guion's case.

Don't wish to start a political argument, but you should go visit my thread in FYI regarding civil asset forfeiture laws. This was an absolute slam dunk confiscation by the standards they are using every day in america...I know, nobody cares about civil liberties anymore. As long as I can get the new iPhone.

[red]

i always took "packer people" to mean, people who kept their noses clean and stayed out of trouble

maybe it really was just, people who buy into the system, put the team first and want to be here

[mraynrand]

I'm going to get high now and steal some stuff from a ten year old.

Your nephew is visiting?

[mraynrand]

"You have to create that stable structure . . . look for the right type of Packer people," McCarthy told the media that day. "Chemistry and character needs to be concentrated on at all times."

He's obviously talking about the meth lab.

[mraynrand]

So Stefon Diggs would not be 'Packer people' because of the Penn State fight, no?

[sharpe1027]

The Packers have never been free of players with legal/moral issues off the field. So either "Packer people" refers to fitting in with the football team (and not off-the-field legal problems), or it never meant anything to begin with.

[run pMc]

I think it was a PR move, and also a way to thumb noses at the Love Boat-era Vikings. Plus, with Green Bay being a "small market" (ugh) it makes sense for the to want players who will buy into the team and the community.

[Freak Out]

Greg Hardy....perfect fit for the Packers. Can you imagine what he would have done to Bostick after the NFCCG? :) Man...listening to JJ you would think he was the second coming of Roger Staubach.

[Patler]

Don't wish to start a political argument, but you should go visit my thread in FYI regarding civil asset forfeiture laws. This was an absolute slam dunk confiscation by the standards they are using every day in america...I know, nobody cares about civil liberties anymore. As long as I can get the new iPhone.

Ya, I know the confiscation was a slam dunk, and I'm familiar with your FYI thread. I posted in it a few times, actually agreeing with Wist, as I recall. As bad as this situation is, the confiscations of business accounts for "structuring" deposits are even worse.

I suspect Guion is pretty much out of luck in getting his cash back. One article quoted an attorney saying he might have a shot at getting the truck, if he can show that he bought it right after getting a signing bonus, or several packer checks. He said the right judge might agree it was not obtained with drug proceeds and let him have it back, especially since they took $190k as well for a relatively small amount of marijuana. But even that might be a long shot.

[Fritz]

Mossey Cade was Packer people.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Mossey Cade was Packer people.

He was family oriented, as I recall. Very fond of his aunt.

[Fritz]

Your nephew is visiting?

My grandson.

I thought I'd spend a little quality time with him this weekend. I got ahold of some high-quality weed yesterday.

[Pugger]

The Packers have never been free of players with legal/moral issues off the field. So either "Packer people" refers to fitting in with the football team (and not off-the-field legal problems), or it never meant anything to begin with.

Yes, this goes all the way back to the Lambeau years. Neither Curly or Johnny Blood were choir boys.

[MadScientist]

Guion managed to get his truck and his money back.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/361148081.html

Hopefully he doesn't use it to buy more drugs for his next trip home to Florida.

[Fritz]

Why not? An earlier JSO article featuring Guion's dad suggested that Leroy was very good about bringing his father the latest and bestest weed.

As I said in an earlier post, he's just being a good son.

Family. Isn't that what Packer People is all about?

[pbmax]

Guion managed to get his truck and his money back.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/361148081.html

Hopefully he doesn't use it to buy more drugs for his next trip home to Florida.

Well, regardless of whether his family is connected to drug trade or not, they obviously have access to a good lawyer. That is not how those cases usually shake out. Especially when he was caught with the weed.

[KYPack]

Yes, this goes all the way back to the Lambeau years. Neither Curly or Johnny Blood were choir boys.

As usual, Pug's got it.

Every great Packer team had a few drunks and assholes on it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Why not? An earlier JSO article featuring Guion's dad suggested that Leroy was very good about bringing his father the latest and bestest weed.

As I said in an earlier post, he's just being a good son.

Family. Isn't that what Packer People is all about?

Good lord, have we not moved past Reefer Madness era?

I find a son providing his pops with some kind bud to be positively touching.

[Patler]

Interesting choice of words by Guion in:


“It kind of rejuvenates me,” Guion told ESPN on Tuesday. “It gives me my sense of character back and gives me my juice back. I’m all excited and ready to go. Things are getting back to normal. All the smoke is starting to clear."

[Freak Out]

LOL.

[Patler]

Well, regardless of whether his family is connected to drug trade or not, they obviously have access to a good lawyer. That is not how those cases usually shake out. Especially when he was caught with the weed.

The cases in which confiscated assets are returned are ones in which they prove the assets are unrelated to the illegal activity. Typical drug dealers can not show legitimate income sufficient to pay for their cars or houses, or to generate the cash they have. Clearly Guion could do that. Early on in the case, there was an article that said his bank could attest to the fact that he cashed a number of paychecks all at one time, just before he left GB. This latest article said he had the bank slips to prove the source of the money.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm concerned the state may not have paid interest on the money they held for two years. That's worth a revolution.

[Fritz]

“It kind of rejuvenates me,” Guion told ESPN on Tuesday. “It gives me my sense of character back and gives me my juice back. I’m all excited and ready to go. Things are getting back to normal. All the smoke is starting to clear."


Sounds like Leroy is running out of stash. Time for another trip home.

[mraynrand]

“It kind of rejuvenates me,” Guion told ESPN on Tuesday. “It gives me my sense of character back and gives me my juice back. I’m all excited and ready to go. Things are getting back to normal. All the smoke is starting to clear."


http://710penvaporizer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Up-In-Smoke-Cheech-And-Chong.jpg