The Offense

[Bossman641]

What the fuck is going on out there? Is it as simple as the WR's not getting open? Is it the change to Clements? I personally think it's running out the same 3 WR 1 TE set over and over again. The offense used to be cutting edge with all these different formations, now it just feels stale.

[red]

we don't have nfl caliber TE's

the o-line is shit

a-rod is off

eddy is fat

and jordy must be the most underpaid WR of all time, cause he must be the one that makes everyone else on the field look better

[Maxie the Taxi]

Plus, our speed running back is James Starks.

[Rutnstrut]

we don't have nfl caliber TE's

the o-line is shit

a-rod is off

eddy is fat

and jordy must be the most underpaid WR of all time, cause he must be the one that makes everyone else on the field look better

I agree 100% with all of these. Add also that the Packers have terrible uncreative coaches that couldn't make an in game adjustment to save their lives.

[Regan03]

How many times are we going to run the i-formation. Where is the hurry up offense?

[pbmax]

How many times are we going to run the i-formation. Where is the hurry up offense?

Its all no huddle, but only occasionally hurry up. At no point tonight or 2 weeks ago did they have a great matchup for the D that would make the hurry up sensible.

I fear the no huddle, with its stationary WRs, is part of the problem in getting guys open.

Do you mean the offset I with the TE or when Lacy/Starks is deeper than Rodgers?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Its all no huddle, but only occasionally hurry up. At no point tonight or 2 weeks ago did they have a great matchup for the D that would make the hurry up sensible.

I fear the no huddle, with its stationary WRs, is part of the problem in getting guys open.

Do you mean the offset I with the TE or when Lacy/Starks is deeper than Rodgers?

Great observation! Plus, when you're up against a great defense, the no huddle doesn't do our defense any favors.

[pbmax]

Great observation! Plus, when you're up against a great defense, the no huddle doesn't do our defense any favors.

I should say the perhaps they ran a bit of hurry up on the first SD drive. But after that is was slow going.

[Bossman641]

Its all no huddle, but only occasionally hurry up. At no point tonight or 2 weeks ago did they have a great matchup for the D that would make the hurry up sensible.

I fear the no huddle, with its stationary WRs, is part of the problem in getting guys open.

Do you mean the offset I with the TE or when Lacy/Starks is deeper than Rodgers?

That's what I don't understand. The whole point of the no huddle is to keep the D stuck in a personnel package you think you have an advantage against. Obviously that has not been the case for the majority of the year.

[pbmax]

That's what I don't understand. The whole point of the no huddle is to keep the D stuck in a personnel package you think you have an advantage against. Obviously that has not been the case for the majority of the year.

Without Nelson you don't have to play 2 Deep and can squeeze the run game. Or if your run D is strong, you can go 2 deep and bother all the receivers short. Nelson drew coverage sway from others and helped the run game go.

Not happening this year.

[esoxx]

What the fuck is going on out there? Is it as simple as the WR's not getting open?

Well, A-Rod did mention that in his post-game presser. "We're not getting open."

[Harlan Huckleby]

Plus, our speed running back is James Starks.

LOL for truth.

At least they have consistent team character: with Adams, DickRod and Jones on field at same time, they may have slowest receivers in the land.

[mraynrand]

LOL for truth.

At least they have consistent team character: with Adams, DickRod and Jones on field at same time, they may have slowest receivers in the land.

Cobb isn't fast either, and he wasn't all that elusive tonight to boot.

For crissakes Dickrod can't even stay on his feet.

The Packers' lack of elite talent was totally exposed tonight. Painful to watch.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Packers' lack of elite talent was totally exposed tonight. Painful to watch.

Ya, it's not like DickRod, Jones, Cobb or Adams are BAD players, but they are role players. Actually I think Cobb is better than a role player. But they need one or two more real threats as receivers, like the other good teams have. Some speed. They could be at RB, TE or WR.

[Carolina_Packer]

You regularly hear Capers say that his defense is predicated on stopping the run. I wish our offense was predicated on being able to run the ball consistently. I thought coming out of the bye we'd have more spark. Rough one tonight, but I felt that way last year when they lost to New Orleans and looked bad doing it. It happens. It didn't scuttle their whole season. They need to get back on track fast. The offense has lost it's identity a bit.

[Pugger]

My biggest beef is we often don't take what the defense gives us. If your guys aren't getting open downfield then try quick screens and slants. Roll AR out of the pocket more. He's a hell of lot more dangerous out there anyway.

Tonight our O line stunk. And RichRod can't block to save his soul. They scored that safety when RR screwed up and Aaron got blasted. AR got hammered all night long. When he didn't get rushed nobody could break free. This game reminded me more of the Buffalo game than the one in NO. At least in NO the offense was semi-functional.

[Joemailman]

The lack of a TE threat is really hurting. As a senior at Cal, Richard Rodgers was a fairly sleek, 245 pound TE. He bulked up for the Combine to 257 and ran poorly, which was probably why he was available in the 6th round. The Packers still list him at that weight, but many think he's even bigger. So what the Packers have now is a slow Tight End who's not a very good blocker. Someone else mentioned it, but it bears worth repeating: The Packers skill players on offense are very slow.

[Patler]

I can't blame it on the lack of a TE. Except for a couple of Finley's years, they haven't had a significant TE threat at all under MM.

A lot of the short and middle plays from Denver were open because of scheme, not the ability of the players to get open. For whatever reason, the Packers can't get open at all based on scheme the last month.

Games like last night are Rodgers' Achilles' Heal. When he is under pressure, he simply refuses to throw to guys who are minimally open. When he is not under pressure, he will make those throws. The good thing is that even when the team is being dominated, they are not out of it on the scoreboard until deep, deep into the game, because Rodgers doesn't give the ball away. The bad part is that if the receivers can never get open sufficiently for Rodgers' comfort zone, you have what we saw last night, the passing game never sustains anything.

Through out the game, but especially early, Manning threw a number of passes to guys who looked fairly well covered. He hit some pretty small windows. Had he been a little less comfortable in the pocket, he might not have made those throws.

[mr_blonde]

All this blabber about the offensive problems being the WRs not getting open reminds back when the WRs were blamed for running the wrong routes resulting in Favre's interceptions ....

It's bullshit.
I refuse to buy into the hype (rationalization) that every WR on this team is crap (a role player) .... No sale.

Two things.

First, the offensive scheme is stale. Opposing defenses know what the Packers are trying to do and the Packers have failed to adjust or innovate at all this season.

Second, Aaron Rodgers has been awful.

WRs are getting open but when your first and second reads are always running 40 yard verticals downfield it makes coverage pretty straight forward. If his first or second read isn't there, he starts his little tap dance that fans and media love but results in him having trouble locating a WR when coverage begins to break down.

It is my understanding that every play called in has a run or pass option. It's Rodgers' responsibility to make the call based on the defense. Safe to say, Rodgers hasn't been doing well with his reads/adjustments so far this season ...

In addition, his passing accuracy has deteriorated this season. Missed a wide open Cobb last night and I had to chuckle when he bitched at Lacy about not running the correct route on a sideline screen play. Nevermind the fact that Rodgers threw the ball at Lacy's feet from about 10 yards ....

Rodgers is turning into Favre. A Prima Donna without the picks ....

[mraynrand]

A lot of the short and middle plays from Denver were open because of scheme, not the ability of the players to get open. For whatever reason, the Packers can't get open at all based on scheme the last month.

Denver has the defensive backs to play press, get pressure with 3-4, and totally blow up the Packer offense. Packers can't/won't play press, and with poor pass rush, they are ripe for slaughter.


Games like last night are Rodgers' Achilles' Heal. When he is under pressure, he simply refuses to throw to guys who are minimally open. When he is not under pressure, he will make those throws. The good thing is that even when the team is being dominated, they are not out of it on the scoreboard until deep, deep into the game, because Rodgers doesn't give the ball away. The bad part is that if the receivers can never get open sufficiently for Rodgers' comfort zone, you have what we saw last night, the passing game never sustains anything.

Through out the game, but especially early, Manning threw a number of passes to guys who looked fairly well covered. He hit some pretty small windows. Had he been a little less comfortable in the pocket, he might not have made those throws.

Good observation. Rodger's risk-averse stratagem is ineffective in games like last night.

[pbmax]

Only Talib was truly playing press, couple cases of bump (mostly on Jones), otherwise it was just man underneath for the Broncos. There was nothing devastating about the coverage.

The pressure caused the problems. And M3 has had a blind spot about his O line and pass pro on the road before. Even though he was chipping and had a back into protect, they were getting pressure up the gut in Rodgers' face. Given who their outside rushers are, Rodgers did not have an escape route in a lot of cases. The Packers were not running all deep routes, they were even cutting routes off when pressure presented itself. But even wide open James Jones had the ball thrown the wrong way because of pressure. Same with Cobb and RichRod short.

I would like to know what is wrong with the interior of the Packers O line and pass blocking. Its been nearly as dreadful as Bach.

This is the same issue the no huddle presented last year opening in Seattle. Its too stationary and uses no tricks for formation or motion to spring players open. And that was with Nelson.

In general, I think this is a game and opponent the Packers will always struggle to win on the road. If this game is at Lambeau, the pass rush tilts the other way.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I went back and watched the first two series of the game. IMO the pressure and protection was pretty much the same on both sides EXCEPT Manning was getting rid of the ball quickly on short throws while Arod was holding on to the ball trying to chuck it downfield. The Denver receivers were open or had lots of separation. The Packer receivers had little or no separation. DickRod was open but Arod missed him high. A better TE might have caught it.

Anyway, on his last throw of that first series, Arod tried to hit Jones long down the left side. After the throw he was tackled hard and lay on the ground his head in his hands, wincing. Somebody here commented on the game thread that he thought Arod was concussed. Watching the play again you can plainly see that Arod was kicked in the head by Bulaga. It was pretty much all downhill from there. I'm thinking Arod might have been slightly concussed. His decision-making the rest of the game was certainly atypical for him.

Unfortunately, our offensive strategy didn't change. We kept trying to go downfield, but Jones, Cobb and company were like scurrying mice with Denver defenders attached to them like shadows. Really, really dumb.

[pbmax]

Wade Phillips ‏@sonofbum 56m56 minutes ago
Chicken Parm tastes so good-I like it especially with Cheese

Gloat away you glorious idiot.

[mraynrand]

Only Talib was truly playing press, couple cases of bump (mostly on Jones), otherwise it was just man underneath for the Broncos. There was nothing devastating about the coverage.

except that no one was open.

[Patler]

Wade Phillips ‏@sonofbum 56m56 minutes ago
Chicken Parm tastes so good-I like it especially with Cheese

Gloat away you glorious idiot.

Can you have "chicken parm" without cheese? Wouldn't that be just "chicken" (I know, I know, with the sauce, etc.)

[Bossman641]

Some pretty damning quotes...

"Denver has [top] corners, so what you can do against Green Bay is come in and play very tight coverage, which takes the quick game away because the Packers' skill doesn't scare you," this GM said. "Now, if their skill scared you, you might play some off coverage and Aaron can see that and hit quick slants and move the chains."

"Jordy was their vertical threat," this coach said. "You saw James Jones laboring on those curl routes. [Randall] Cobb is Cobb and [Davante] Adams is too green. Good defenses can cover them. Combine that with a pass-rush like you saw in Denver and that is a recipe for disaster."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14035571/green-bay-packers-need-more-offensive-weapons-nfl

[Rutnstrut]

I went back and watched the first two series of the game. IMO the pressure and protection was pretty much the same on both sides EXCEPT Manning was getting rid of the ball quickly on short throws while Arod was holding on to the ball trying to chuck it downfield. The Denver receivers were open or had lots of separation. The Packer receivers had little or no separation. DickRod was open but Arod missed him high. A better TE might have caught it.

Anyway, on his last throw of that first series, Arod tried to hit Jones long down the left side. After the throw he was tackled hard and lay on the ground his head in his hands, wincing. Somebody here commented on the game thread that he thought Arod was concussed. Watching the play again you can plainly see that Arod was kicked in the head by Bulaga. It was pretty much all downhill from there. I'm thinking Arod might have been slightly concussed. His decision-making the rest of the game was certainly atypical for him.

Unfortunately, our offensive strategy didn't change. We kept trying to go downfield, but Jones, Cobb and company were like scurrying mice with Denver defenders attached to them like shadows. Really, really dumb.

Except that he's played pretty much this poorly the last few games.

[Rutnstrut]

Some pretty damning quotes...

"Denver has [top] corners, so what you can do against Green Bay is come in and play very tight coverage, which takes the quick game away because the Packers' skill doesn't scare you," this GM said. "Now, if their skill scared you, you might play some off coverage and Aaron can see that and hit quick slants and move the chains."

"Jordy was their vertical threat," this coach said. "You saw James Jones laboring on those curl routes. [Randall] Cobb is Cobb and [Davante] Adams is too green. Good defenses can cover them. Combine that with a pass-rush like you saw in Denver and that is a recipe for disaster."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14035571/green-bay-packers-need-more-offensive-weapons-nfl

This is the result of the all knowing TT sitting on his checkbook. I have always thought they were thin at WR BEFORE Jordy got hurt. Preach draft and develop all you want, in theory it's a great thing. But I think a truly great GM would not be afraid to use ALL the tools available to him. You can't be successful in anything if you are stubborn/close minded and think your way is the only way.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Some pretty damning quotes...

"Denver has [top] corners, so what you can do against Green Bay is come in and play very tight coverage, which takes the quick game away because the Packers' skill doesn't scare you," this GM said. "Now, if their skill scared you, you might play some off coverage and Aaron can see that and hit quick slants and move the chains."

"Jordy was their vertical threat," this coach said. "You saw James Jones laboring on those curl routes. [Randall] Cobb is Cobb and [Davante] Adams is too green. Good defenses can cover them. Combine that with a pass-rush like you saw in Denver and that is a recipe for disaster."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14035571/green-bay-packers-need-more-offensive-weapons-nfl

Man, that sure confirms what a lot of us were thinking. Again, if opposing GM's can see it, why can't the Packer powers that be see it. We need the field stretched and I guess Stubby and company feel no one on the team can do that. If we had a great receiving RB, that might help.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Some pretty damning quotes...

"Denver has [top] corners, so what you can do against Green Bay is come in and play very tight coverage, which takes the quick game away because the Packers' skill doesn't scare you," this GM said. "Now, if their skill scared you, you might play some off coverage and Aaron can see that and hit quick slants and move the chains."

"Jordy was their vertical threat," this coach said. "You saw James Jones laboring on those curl routes. [Randall] Cobb is Cobb and [Davante] Adams is too green. Good defenses can cover them. Combine that with a pass-rush like you saw in Denver and that is a recipe for disaster."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14035571/green-bay-packers-need-more-offensive-weapons-nfl

Shit, if a team can pressure the QB all night using mostly 4 rushers like what happened last night that's a formula to beat anyone.

[mraynrand]

This is the result of the all knowing TT sitting on his checkbook. I have always thought they were thin at WR BEFORE Jordy got hurt. Preach draft and develop all you want, in theory it's a great thing. But I think a truly great GM would not be afraid to use ALL the tools available to him. You can't be successful in anything if you are stubborn/close minded and think your way is the only way.

You're such a cock.

So, Thompson is supposed to guess that Nelson, Adams, and Cobb will all be injured and draft a rookie phenom and/or pick the perfect WR free agent. So who is this mythical FA that Thompson would bring in and 'write a check' for, anticipating three injured WRs? And why would that mythical FA come to Green Bay with three guys in front of him?

[smuggler]

Some pretty damning quotes...

"Denver has [top] corners, so what you can do against Green Bay is come in and play very tight coverage, which takes the quick game away because the Packers' skill doesn't scare you," this GM said. "Now, if their skill scared you, you might play some off coverage and Aaron can see that and hit quick slants and move the chains."

"Jordy was their vertical threat," this coach said. "You saw James Jones laboring on those curl routes. [Randall] Cobb is Cobb and [Davante] Adams is too green. Good defenses can cover them. Combine that with a pass-rush like you saw in Denver and that is a recipe for disaster."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14035571/green-bay-packers-need-more-offensive-weapons-nfl

This has been my view all year.

[mmmdk]

Good calls everyone. Cover me with green'n'gold roses 'cos Stubby is back!

[pbmax]

You're such a cock.

So, Thompson is supposed to guess that Nelson, Adams, and Cobb will all be injured and draft a rookie phenom and/or pick the perfect WR free agent. So who is this mythical FA that Thompson would bring in and 'write a check' for, anticipating three injured WRs? And why would that mythical FA come to Green Bay with three guys in front of him?

Andre Johnson of course.

[Bossman641]

You're such a cock.

So, Thompson is supposed to guess that Nelson, Adams, and Cobb will all be injured and draft a rookie phenom and/or pick the perfect WR free agent. So who is this mythical FA that Thompson would bring in and 'write a check' for, anticipating three injured WRs? And why would that mythical FA come to Green Bay with three guys in front of him?

If I remember right, Rut was talking up Andre Johnson all offseason. Andre hasn't done much this year.

[sharpe1027]

Davante was a big disappointment. I wonder if Ty would have made a difference out there. He was proving to be a bit of a match up problem for DBs with his strength.

[sharpe1027]

I can't blame it on the lack of a TE. Except for a couple of Finley's years, they haven't had a significant TE threat at all under MM.

A lot of the short and middle plays from Denver were open because of scheme, not the ability of the players to get open. For whatever reason, the Packers can't get open at all based on scheme the last month.

Games like last night are Rodgers' Achilles' Heal. When he is under pressure, he simply refuses to throw to guys who are minimally open. When he is not under pressure, he will make those throws. The good thing is that even when the team is being dominated, they are not out of it on the scoreboard until deep, deep into the game, because Rodgers doesn't give the ball away. The bad part is that if the receivers can never get open sufficiently for Rodgers' comfort zone, you have what we saw last night, the passing game never sustains anything.

Through out the game, but especially early, Manning threw a number of passes to guys who looked fairly well covered. He hit some pretty small windows. Had he been a little less comfortable in the pocket, he might not have made those throws.

Yeah, TE is not a requirement, but they did have at least one of them out there most of the time so the TE play was certainly contributing. It seemed like they could stick anyone they wanted on R. Rodgers and not have to worry.

A. Rodgers had no pocket. Even when they did not hit him, it looked like complete chaos back there. It looked like our OL wore skates instead of cleats.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Davante was a big disappointment. I wonder if Ty would have made a difference out there. He was proving to be a bit of a match up problem for DBs with his strength.

You can't expect too much from a guy coming off long layoff. But I think by end of year, we'll be thinking Monty is more of a weapon. We'll see.

[Bossman641]

Yeah, TE is not a requirement, but they did have at least one of them out there most of the time so the TE play was certainly contributing. It seemed like they could stick anyone they wanted on R. Rodgers and not have to worry.

A. Rodgers had no pocket. Even when they did not hit him, it looked like complete chaos back there. It looked like our OL wore skates instead of cleats.

Same article I posted above stated Rodgers was pressured on 63% of pass plays, the highest rate any team has generated over the past 7 years.

That's why I think we need to get away from the no huddle. If the skill position players aren't good enough to straight up beat the guy ahead of the, which they aren't, then we need to mix personnel and run bunch formations/stuff like that to manufacture some separation.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, TE is not a requirement, but they did have at least one of them out there most of the time so the TE play was certainly contributing. It seemed like they could stick anyone they wanted on R. Rodgers and not have to worry.

A. Rodgers had no pocket. Even when they did not hit him, it looked like complete chaos back there. It looked like our OL wore skates instead of cleats.

O-line got beat, individually, all night. Everyone was getting man-handled. You can't run an offense with that going on.

[Freak Out]

The Denver D is really really good...add the home field and its hard for anyone to win there. PUT the current GB team in that situation and nobody should be surprised with the outcome. When I heard Monty was inactive I was bummed because the guy has been that spark plug that would have really helped.

[Rutnstrut]

If I remember right, Rut was talking up Andre Johnson all offseason. Andre hasn't done much this year.

Nope not me, I have never been a fan of his. I was and am on the James Jones bandwagon, perhaps that's what you were thinking of.

[Patler]

There have been a lot of fan complaints about the play of the O-line in pass pro. McGinn didn't find it all that bad.


"... the damage report for the group (one sack, two knockdowns, two hurries) was solid. Wade Phillips blitzed extensively (34.4% five or more, 15.6% with six), too. "

[Pugger]

There have been a lot of fan complaints about the play of the O-line in pass pro. McGinn didn't find it all that bad.

Last night on BSPN they were analyzing the game and they showed Aaron had time back there on several occasions but nobody was getting free. Even one time AR threw it to the middle of the field where nobody was just so he didn't take a sack or get hammered again. That game was a team wide melt down. The line had issues occassionally, AR threw some crappy passes, Lacy kept running into the pile and the WRs couldn't get open. Our pass rush disappeared, the middle of the defense was wide open and Manning went after our young or slow DBs. lLosing Sam's speed didn't help matters. Only ST looked competent - I never thought I'd ever say that! Was this just a bad day at the office or a sign of things to come? We'll find out on Sunday - but I will say Carolina's defense is not as formidable as Denver's and Cam doesn't have the WRs the Broncos have either. Ginn is only average but Olsen is good TE. Frankly this game can't come soon enough so we can put that disaster behind us. Let's hope they play like they are capable of this weekend.

[sharpe1027]

There have been a lot of fan complaints about the play of the O-line in pass pro. McGinn didn't find it all that bad.

Yes, but more importantly, did McGinn think that was Rodgers was being bullied?

[Maxie the Taxi]

There have been a lot of fan complaints about the play of the O-line in pass pro. McGinn didn't find it all that bad.

I can't bring myself to watch the entire game replay, but based on the first half, I actually agree with McGinn. Arod and Manning had about the same protection. Manning just had open receivers to throw to and was decisive about it. Though both QB's had similar protection, our OL was dealing with blitzing LB's and were consistently outnumbered. On the other hand, Manning's OL consistently outnumbered our guys rushing the passer.

You'll never beat Denver at home by failing to put Manning on his ass by whatever means it takes.

[sharpe1027]

I can't bring myself to watch the entire game replay, but based on the first half, I actually agree with McGinn. Arod and Manning had about the same protection. Manning just had open receivers to throw to and was decisive about it. Though both QB's had similar protection, our OL was dealing with blitzing LB's and were consistently outnumbered. On the other hand, Manning's OL consistently outnumbered our guys rushing the passer.

You'll never beat Denver at home by failing to put Manning on his ass by whatever means it takes.

Maybe I just have a poor recollection, but I do not consider it equal when one the Oline is consistently being blown backwards (even if they stay in front of their man for the most part) and the other is holding their ground. Especially up the middle. I admit I have not re-watched any of it, but Arod did not seem to have the nice clean pocket Manning had most of the game. That doesn't that mean Rodgers is absolved of all blame, but the protection/pressures did not look like there were the same.

[Teamcheez1]

Other QB's against Denver:

Josh McCown 20-39 213 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT
D. Carr 26-39 249 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
T. Bridgewater 27-41, 269 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT
M. Stafford 31-45, 282 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT
Alex Smith 16-25, 191 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT
J. Flacco 18-32, 117 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT

This makes the offense and Rodgers performance look even worse. The game plan and adjustments by the coaches also looks even worse.

[Fritz]

I watched the first half, and while there were plays where Rodgers seemed to have time - they didn't do badly against a tough Denver front, not at all - there was some push up the middle that might've hindered Rodgers from time to time.

But the run-blocking...ugh. Except for occasional plays, Eddie Lacey had no where to run, baby, no where to hide.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Other QB's against Denver:

Josh McCown 20-39 213 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT
D. Carr 26-39 249 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
T. Bridgewater 27-41, 269 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT
M. Stafford 31-45, 282 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT
Alex Smith 16-25, 191 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT
J. Flacco 18-32, 117 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT

This makes the offense and Rodgers performance look even worse. The game plan and adjustments by the coaches also looks even worse.

Note the INT's. This reinforces the notion that Arod was not willing to stick the ball into tight windows and risk an INT. These other QB's did take the risk and paid for it with INT's, except Bridgewater who is really accurate.

Maybe INT's are the price of doing business against the Denver D, I don't know. All I do know is that the Pack ain't going to win against anybody if Arod throws for only 77 yards.

[pbmax]

I don't mind the lack of INTs until the end of the game. Then its time to go high variance.

[Bossman641]

Maybe I just have a poor recollection, but I do not consider it equal when one the Oline is consistently being blown backwards (even if they stay in front of their man for the most part) and the other is holding their ground. Especially up the middle. I admit I have not re-watched any of it, but Arod did not seem to have the nice clean pocket Manning had most of the game. That doesn't that mean Rodgers is absolved of all blame, but the protection/pressures did not look like there were the same.

Agreed. Manning had a nice clean pocket. The pocket around Rodgers was constantly getting caved in. It went from below average protection throughout the first half to awful protection in the second.

The other thing this game really showed me is how sloooow our RB's are. Seriously, how nice would it be to have a quick 3rd down back coming out of the backfield? When you pair that with Rodgers at TE we are really missing the 8-12 yard checkdowns that other QB's make a killing at.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Agreed. Manning had a nice clean pocket. The pocket around Rodgers was constantly getting caved in. It went from below average protection throughout the first half to awful protection in the second.

I fall on the side of this chicken-or-egg argument that the offensive line did a decent job pass blocking, the problem was mostly that Denver jammed at line of scrimmage and stuck to receivers like glue.

Eric Baranczyk does an excellent game analysis. He thought the interior three were yielding push up middle more than usual. He wants to move the pocket more, run more, play action pass.
http://media.1057fmthefan.com/a/110625597/11-02-15-eric-baranczyk-joins-bill-michaels.htm?pageid=911297

If Packers aren't able to throw over a defense that puts 11 men inside of 8 yards, the receivers are really bad.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I fall on the side of this chicken-or-egg argument that the offensive line did a decent job pass blocking, the problem was mostly that Denver jammed at line of scrimmage and stuck to receivers like glue.

Eric Baranczyk does an excellent game analysis. He thought the interior three were yielding push up middle more than usual. He wants to move the pocket more, run more, play action pass.
http://media.1057fmthefan.com/a/110625597/11-02-15-eric-baranczyk-joins-bill-michaels.htm?pageid=911297

If Packers aren't able to throw over a defense that puts 11 men inside of 8 yards, the receivers are really bad.

I think Baranczyk's analysis is correct. It seems to me that if the OL was failing in a major way to protect Arod, we would have seen Kuhn and Ripkowski in the backfield helping out with pass protection early in the game. However, they only played a total of 6 snaps between them. I think it's obvious that the Denver defense wasn't worried about getting beat over the top by our receivers.

[Bossman641]

I think Baranczyk's analysis is correct. It seems to me that if the OL was failing in a major way to protect Arod, we would have seen Kuhn and Ripkowski in the backfield helping out with pass protection early in the game. However, they only played a total of 6 snaps between them. I think it's obvious that the Denver defense wasn't worried about getting beat over the top by our receivers.

MM has shown before that he is hesitant to give the line help - the first half of the Fail Mary game. For better or worse, he puts a lot of faith in the OL and uses chips by TE's and RB's more than actually keeping people in to block.

And Rodgers was pressured on 63% of pass plays Sunday night. Ya he probably was responsible for some of the pressure with his bouncing around, but it was still a ridiculous amount of pressure.

[Maxie the Taxi]

MM has shown before that he is hesitant to give the line help - the first half of the Fail Mary game. For better or worse, he puts a lot of faith in the OL and uses chips by TE's and RB's more than actually keeping people in to block.

And Rodgers was pressured on 63% of pass plays Sunday night. Ya he probably was responsible for some of the pressure with his bouncing around, but it was still a ridiculous amount of pressure.

I guess they don't call him Stubby for nothing.

[denverYooper]

Other QB's against Denver:

Josh McCown 20-39 213 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT
D. Carr 26-39 249 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT
T. Bridgewater 27-41, 269 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT
M. Stafford 31-45, 282 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT
Alex Smith 16-25, 191 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT
J. Flacco 18-32, 117 yds, 0 TD, 2 INT

This makes the offense and Rodgers performance look even worse. The game plan and adjustments by the coaches also looks even worse.

Really? I see an awful lot of INTs on that list and not many TDs.nIt didn't help at all that they couldn't get any YAC.

For what it's worth, their only home games there were Flacco and Bridgewater. Bridgewater might have played the best but he took one hell of a beating. Is that worth it in a non-conference away game?

[mraynrand]

I think Baranczyk's analysis is correct. It seems to me that if the OL was failing in a major way to protect Arod, we would have seen Kuhn and Ripkowski in the backfield helping out with pass protection early in the game. However, they only played a total of 6 snaps between them. I think it's obvious that the Denver defense wasn't worried about getting beat over the top by our receivers.

It's kind of funny that the first play I recall seeing Kuhn on was the safety. Kuhn is Stubby's security blanket, when his sphincter is really, really tightening up. Man did that backfire. Who could know that DickRod would have such an astonishing implosion on that play?

[mraynrand]

If Packers aren't able to throw over a defense that puts 11 men inside of 8 yards, the receivers are really bad.

They're not horrible; it's just the differential with the defensive backs is more in Denver's favor; then you fact in the pressure and you have a disaster. Still, Denver's d-backs took some penalties. It's the Belichick strategy - you just be more aggressive. Even a few penalties, you still win, because they aren't gonna call everything. And in Denver's case, they just won a lot of individual battles.

[Smidgeon]

They're not horrible; it's just the differential with the defensive backs is more in Denver's favor; then you fact in the pressure and you have a disaster. Still, Denver's d-backs took some penalties. It's the Belichick strategy - you just be more aggressive. Even a few penalties, you still win, because they aren't gonna call everything. And in Denver's case, they just won a lot of individual battles.

I call that the Seattle strategy: hold on every route; they won't call everything.

Mind you, I'm not complaining about officiating. That wasn't the reason the game was so lopsided.

[Fosco33]

How many 1st downs did we get from penalty? 4 of 14! Broncos played aggressive and it showed. That's the way to play the pack - we just couldn't counter and couldn't even get open on a blitz...

[mraynrand]

I call that the Seattle strategy: hold on every route; they won't call everything.

Mind you, I'm not complaining about officiating. That wasn't the reason the game was so lopsided.

you have to adapt. Holmgren would have run the 'flanker option' and posted up RichRod to get first downs.

Still, the O-line blocking was so awfully bad, that not much of anything schematically was going to save them.

[Pugger]

What the fuck is going on out there? Is it as simple as the WR's not getting open? Is it the change to Clements? I personally think it's running out the same 3 WR 1 TE set over and over again. The offense used to be cutting edge with all these different formations, now it just feels stale.

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/WYMM-No-one-was-open/d1fb1f61-cabd-4f4d-a162-8a496e5a2d21

[Pugger]

The lack of a TE threat is really hurting. As a senior at Cal, Richard Rodgers was a fairly sleek, 245 pound TE. He bulked up for the Combine to 257 and ran poorly, which was probably why he was available in the 6th round. The Packers still list him at that weight, but many think he's even bigger. So what the Packers have now is a slow Tight End who's not a very good blocker. Someone else mentioned it, but it bears worth repeating: The Packers skill players on offense are very slow.

RichRod was drafted in the 3rd round. We do need a TE who can stretch the field and can outrun a LBer.