5 minute stretch that changed the game

[Patler]

I think the two defenses defined the outcome early:

13:42 Q2 - Packers leading 7-3, with momentum from having scored a TD on their last possession. They have Carolina in third down, 16 yards to go at the Carolina 26 yard line. A stop means good field position for the Packer offense, and a chance to build a lead early in the game. The defense gives up a 59 yard play, Carolina goes on to score and takes the lead at 10-7.

10:58 Q2 - Carolina leading 10-7 and after their kickoff they have the Packers in third down, 17 yards to go at the Packers 10 yard line. They hold, give their offense great field position and at 8:59 Carolina has built their lead to 17-7.

Except for 16 yards of field position, both teams had identical situations. GB had a 4 point lead, momentum on their side from a lead-taking score, Carolina in 3rd and 16, with a chance to maybe go up by 11. Just a few minute later, Carolina had a 3 point lead, momentum on their side from a lead-taking score, GB in 3rd and 17, with a chance to maybe go up by 10. Green Bay's defense let Carolina off the hook. Carolina's defense did not let Green Bay off the hook. The potential for a 14-3 Packer lead turned into a 17-7 Carolina lead in less than 5 minutes of game time.

[Pugger]

What really killed us IMO was zero pass rush on Newton. You can't give average NFL QBs like him time to pick you apart or he'll kill you. They got several big plays that were the difference in the game.

[Freak Out]

The 59 yarder on 3rd just destroyed the spirit of the defense. It was basically over at that point. What the hell did Dom have called? I remember seeing a three man rush?

[pbmax]

Every time they play zone I am worried that the ILBs will end up in the wrong place. On that throw, there was NO ONE underneath the receiver. Only Dix in back.

[Patler]

Every time they play zone I am worried that the ILBs will end up in the wrong place. On that throw, there was NO ONE underneath the receiver. Only Dix in back.

Ya, he was so wide open that even Cam Newton didn't miss him!

[mraynrand]

Every time they play zone I am worried that the ILBs will end up in the wrong place. On that throw, there was NO ONE underneath the receiver. Only Dix in back.

Well, that was one play Dix got wrong. He was supposed to be the deep safety, and was up looking for a TE or something over the underneath middle. Isn't that supposed to be Burnett territory? Randall had good coverage, but no help. I knew that bastard Funchess would come back to bite us. He was the offensive guy I wanted the Packers to draft (Finley II, LOL). Oh well, you can't have them all.

Maybe that poor coverage by Dix is where all the sideline crap got started. Maybe someone told him to get his head on straight or something to that effect, with more expletives.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, that was one play Dix got wrong. He was supposed to be the deep safety, and was up looking for a TE or something over the underneath middle. Isn't that supposed to be Burnett territory? Randall had good coverage, but no help. I knew that bastard Funchess would come back to bite us. He was the offensive guy I wanted the Packers to draft (Finley II, LOL). Oh well, you can't have them all.

Maybe that poor coverage by Dix is where all the sideline crap got started. Maybe someone told him to get his head on straight or something to that effect, with more expletives.

He struggled in the game, but I'm not sure he made the wrong read on that play. Randall had great coverage on Funchess, and Olsen is a stud and the guy that Cam usually throws to in that situation. Funchess just made a good play.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well, that was one play Dix got wrong. He was supposed to be the deep safety, and was up looking for a TE or something over the underneath middle. Isn't that supposed to be Burnett territory? Randall had good coverage, but no help. I knew that bastard Funchess would come back to bite us. He was the offensive guy I wanted the Packers to draft (Finley II, LOL). Oh well, you can't have them all.

Maybe that poor coverage by Dix is where all the sideline crap got started. Maybe someone told him to get his head on straight or something to that effect, with more expletives.


Fungus did drop a couple too...he could be Finley II.

[mraynrand]

He struggled in the game, but I'm not sure he made the wrong read on that play. Randall had great coverage on Funchess, and Olsen is a stud and the guy that Cam usually throws to in that situation. Funchess just made a good play.

yeah, it's a funny play, because really, Randall had great coverage I thought. But I wondered whether Dix shouldn't have been back with Burnett up. I could be wrong, especially since I think Aikman was making the same point while I was screaming and yelling about the completed pass! :)

[pbmax]

Wait, isn't this the 50+ yard play where the guy was WIDE open? With only Dix anywhere near him?

I also remember two slants that Randall was on but couldn't break up.

#anklebiter

[hoosier]

Yeah, the first (and killer) 50 yard pass on 3rd-and-16 was a completely blown coverage with Crotchety running wide open over the middle. HHCD was playing deep center, about 60 yards off the LOS (maybe expecting a quick kick from Randall Cunningham?). Hard to tell who was supposed to be covering the receiver because there was nobody within a mile of him.

[pbmax]

You know it was a bad game when you can't be sure which of 3 terrible pass plays was the back breaker.

[mraynrand]

Yeah, the first (and killer) 50 yard pass on 3rd-and-16 was a completely blown coverage with Crotchety running wide open over the middle. HHCD was playing deep center, about 60 yards off the LOS (maybe expecting a quick kick from Randall Cunningham?). Hard to tell who was supposed to be covering the receiver because there was nobody within a mile of him.

Oh, I was talking about the deep ball to Funchess.

[Carolina_Packer]

There are never supposed to be excuses, but there are always reasons. Before and during the game, the DB depth was challenged with injury concerns. The Packers were relying on their rookie first rounder in Randall, were missing starter in Shields and complimentary piece in Rollins, and were forced to play late round development guy from last year, Goodson. Add to that the Packers pass rush has disappeared, which puts even more of a challenge on the coverage units. Whatever kind of in-game adjustments were necessary to produce more pass rush may have staved off these few really bad moments of big plays and flipped the script on the game. We still had the players who were helping produce a pass rush earlier. You've got to help out the coverage units more. We need to get the band back together and find a pass rush or there are going to be more big plays given up.

[denverYooper]

There are never supposed to be excuses, but there are always reasons. Before and during the game, the DB depth was challenged with injury concerns. The Packers were relying on their rookie first rounder in Randall, were missing starter in Shields and complimentary piece in Rollins, and were forced to play late round development guy from last year, Goodson. Add to that the Packers pass rush has disappeared, which puts even more of a challenge on the coverage units. Whatever kind of in-game adjustments were necessary to produce more pass rush may have staved off these few really bad moments of big plays and flipped the script on the game. We still had the players who were helping produce a pass rush earlier. You've got to help out the coverage units more. We need to get the band back together and find a pass rush or there are going to be more big plays given up.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIoFNpzwqM0w2Ku5cltjSU47Na6oEEl Gvbp5aG2U-_rd-QROUjxQ

[denverYooper]

There are never supposed to be excuses, but there are always reasons. Before and during the game, the DB depth was challenged with injury concerns. The Packers were relying on their rookie first rounder in Randall, were missing starter in Shields and complimentary piece in Rollins, and were forced to play late round development guy from last year, Goodson. Add to that the Packers pass rush has disappeared, which puts even more of a challenge on the coverage units. Whatever kind of in-game adjustments were necessary to produce more pass rush may have staved off these few really bad moments of big plays and flipped the script on the game. We still had the players who were helping produce a pass rush earlier. You've got to help out the coverage units more. We need to get the band back together and find a pass rush or there are going to be more big plays given up.

+1. I just wrote something similar in the chemistry thread.

Now I need to get back to solving those acid-base titration problems.

[Fritz]

Good post, Patler. At least, it is to me because it underscores the way a defense can take over a game.

The last Packers' SB team had a defense like that. I'm thinking specifically of the 9 - 0 win over the Jets, in New York, I think.

If the Packer defense that showed up for the first five games had shown up last Sunday, the outcome would likely have been very different.

I'd rather have a stout defense with a sputtering offense than a prolific offense with a weak defense.

Though right now the Packers have a sputtering offense AND a weak defense.

Does anyone think inserting Jake Ryan in the second half made a siginificant difference? I did not see much of the game. Is the guy an upgrade over Palmer?

[pbmax]

Good post, Patler. At least, it is to me because it underscores the way a defense can take over a game.

The last Packers' SB team had a defense like that. I'm thinking specifically of the 9 - 0 win over the Jets, in New York, I think.

If the Packer defense that showed up for the first five games had shown up last Sunday, the outcome would likely have been very different.

I'd rather have a stout defense with a sputtering offense than a prolific offense with a weak defense.

Though right now the Packers have a sputtering offense AND a weak defense.

Does anyone think inserting Jake Ryan in the second half made a siginificant difference? I did not see much of the game. Is the guy an upgrade over Palmer?

Palmer was missing some run fits, but nothing as egregious as the Broncos game. But I suspect that zone drops in the passing game were the cause of consternation versus the Panthers.

Of course, then Ryan leads the team in tackles. So it MIGHT have been the run fits that were the problem. The most I can say about Ryan is that he was around the ball. Palmer was often ball-adjacent, but had many fewer tackles to show for it.

[Patler]

Does anyone think inserting Jake Ryan in the second half made a siginificant difference? I did not see much of the game. Is the guy an upgrade over Palmer?


I don't know if it made a difference in that game, but it might make a difference this coming game, regardless of whether Ryan or Palmer gets the start.

When a team is playing lousy, taking out Palmer and playing Ryan is a good thing, even if Ryan soesn't play appreciably better. So to for sitting Lacy and playing Starks more. Moves like that grab the attention of everyone, not just the players involved. Starters remember that their spot isn't guaranteed, the backups and young guys realize that their opportunity could come at anytime. Raising everyone's attention level is a good thing when the team seems to have lost focus.

[Fritz]

I don't know if it made a difference in that game, but it might make a difference this coming game, regardless of whether Ryan or Palmer gets the start.

When a team is playing lousy, taking out Palmer and playing Ryan is a good thing, even if Ryan soesn't play appreciably better. So to for sitting Lacy and playing Starks more. Moves like that grab the attention of everyone, not just the players involved. Starters remember that their spot isn't guaranteed, the backups and young guys realize that their opportunity could come at anytime. Raising everyone's attention level is a good thing when the team seems to have lost focus.


By golly, maybe MM will yank Arod out for a couple series, then.

[mraynrand]

By golly, maybe MM will yank Arod out for a couple series, then.

probably a good thing to do when he is frightened.