Beefs with Ted Thompson draft choices.

[dahammer001]

I'm tired of seeing Ted draft small corners, Small average wide receivers, Short defensive lineman, quit trying to convert defensive linemen into outside linebackers with no coverage skills.

I have noticed a pattern of drafting 5:10 db's recently and this has to stop because the rest of the league is trotting out wr's that are 6.4 and taller, you're not giving the db's any kind of chance at being successful.

I have noticed a pattern of drafting 6 foot wr's when everybody in the league is getting tall wr's which can cause match up problems.


If Ted draft another 6 foot defensive tackle in next year draft I will lose my mind. None of these guys can knock a pass down to save their life.

Please quit trying to make average defensive ends into outside linebackers. No coverage skills. Let's actually draft a real outside linebacker.

[bobblehead]

I'm tired of seeing Ted draft small corners, Small average wide receivers, Short defensive lineman, quit trying to convert defensive linemen into outside linebackers with no coverage skills.

I have noticed a pattern of drafting 5:10 db's recently and this has to stop because the rest of the league is trotting out wr's that are 6.4 and taller, you're not giving the db's any kind of chance at being successful.

I have noticed a pattern of drafting 6 foot wr's when everybody in the league is getting tall wr's which can cause match up problems.


If Ted draft another 6 foot defensive tackle in next year draft I will lose my mind. None of these guys can knock a pass down to save their life.

Please quit trying to make average defensive ends into outside linebackers. No coverage skills. Let's actually draft a real outside linebacker.

Especially trading the pick we got for Favre to move up and draft a DE and move him to OLB. That bullshit has to stop, waste of a pick.

[dahammer001]

Especially trading the pick we got for Favre to move up and draft a DE and move him to OLB. That bullshit has to stop, waste of a pick.

I agree brother.

[Patler]

Especially trading the pick we got for Favre to move up and draft a DE and move him to OLB. That bullshit has to stop, waste of a pick.

:-):-)

Ya, apparently they are still looking for a position for him in the pros. I heard he is now playing middle linebacker.

[Pugger]

:-):-)

Ya, apparently they are still looking for a position for him in the pros. I heard he is now playing middle linebacker.

I think the guys are discussing Nick Perry who besides Jake Ryan had a pretty good game yesterday.

[Patler]

I think the guys are discussing Nick Perry who besides Jake Ryan had a pretty good game yesterday.

I think Bobble's "criticism" was tongue-in-cheek; because the draft pick they got for Favre was used to trade up for Matthews.

I think Bobble's comment went over dahammer's head, unless his original post to start the thread was already tongue-in-cheek.

[Fritz]

I think the guys are discussing Nick Perry who besides Jake Ryan had a pretty good game yesterday.

Pugger, you goof, they're not talking about Perry. They're talking about Mike Neal!

But I didn't watch but a few plays of the game, so I really do want to know in more detail how you thought Perry played. Did he get any bull rushes at all, or did he just play the run solidly?

Same with Jake Ryan - I hear he played the second half. How did he do? What did he do better than Palmer, specifically?

[dahammer001]

Correct me if I 'm wrong but Clay Matthews played linebacker at USC. I remember Matthews Malauga and Cushing as being their linebackers.

[sharpe1027]

Peppers is 6'7". Exactly how many balls has he batted down? On average, how many extra batted balls would taller DL lead to in a game? One? Two? Game changer there.

I guess they should not have taken a chance on Peppers and Mathews. It is not worth the effort to play a former DE at OLB.

[sharpe1027]

Correct me if I 'm wrong but Clay Matthews played linebacker at USC. I remember Matthews Malauga and Cushing as being their linebackers.

I believe that he played the elephant DE role. It's a bit of a hybrid role, but technically it is listed as DE.

[sharpe1027]

Pugger, you goof, they're not talking about Perry. They're talking about Mike Neal!

But I didn't watch but a few plays of the game, so I really do want to know in more detail how you thought Perry played. Did he get any bull rushes at all, or did he just play the run solidly?

Same with Jake Ryan - I hear he played the second half. How did he do? What did he do better than Palmer, specifically?

Neal was a DT not DE - EVEN WORSE!

[Patler]

As for batting down passes, some DL just have a knack for it, stepping into the passing lane and getting there hand up just as the QB throws. One of the best the Packers have had in a while was a relatively short DT about 10 years ago or so. Name escapes me right now.

[dahammer001]

Johnny Jolly

[Patler]

Johnny Jolly

Jolly also had a knack for it, but isn't the guy I was thinking of. As I said, it was 10 years ago or so.

[Patler]

Steve Warren is the guy I was thinking of. His hand was a ball magnet, and he was only 6'1" 300#.

[dahammer001]

When drafting always go for the bigger guy, that what most coaches do!

[sharpe1027]

When drafting always go for the bigger guy, that what most coaches do!

You'd end up with a team full of lineman.

[Smidgeon]

I find it fascinating that people who don't normally visit the forum show up in droves when the Packers suffer a bad loss or two.

[dahammer001]

Not true. Why do the NFL have a combine because they are looking for big fast human beings. Scenario you have two high school QB's with the same arm strength, but one qb is 6.4 220 Lbs and the other qb is 5:11 205, which player do you think has a better chance of landing a major scholarship? The big qb

[Patler]

The talking heads on one of the pregame or post game shows earlier this season were discussing the subtle yet definite change among NFL teams to be re-emphasizing athleticism over sheer size on both lines.

[dahammer001]

Who would you take an athletic 5:8 cb or athletic 6;1 cb? Always take the bigger guy.

[sharpe1027]

Not true. Why do the NFL have a combine because they are looking for big fast human beings. Scenario you have two high school QB's with the same arm strength, but one qb is 6.4 220 Lbs and the other qb is 5:11 205, which player do you think has a better chance of landing a major scholarship? The big qb

Do you really think TT would draft the smaller guy in your scenario? If it were that simple, they could hire you to do the job for a quarter of what they pay TT.

Here's a scenario, you have 1) a 6'2" DB that had a single INT (a pass the WR deflected) through college and ran a 4.6 40; 2) a 5'10" DB that led the nation in INTs and ran a 4.4 40. Who do think has a better chance of being drafted?

[Patler]

2010 NFL draft - safeties order selected:

Eric Berry - 6'0", 211#
Earl Thomas - 5'10", 202#
Nate Allen - 6'1", 210#
TJ Ward - 5'10", 200#
Taylor Mays - 6'3", 225#

Do you think the Chiefs, Seahawks, Eagles or Browns regret passing on the bigger guy, Taylor Mays?

[Zool]

2010 NFL draft - safeties order selected:

Eric Berry - 6'0", 211#
Earl Thomas - 5'10", 202#
Nate Allen - 6'1", 210#
TJ Ward - 5'10", 200#
Taylor Mays - 6'3", 225#

Do you think the Chiefs, Seahawks, Eagles or Browns regret passing on the bigger guy, Taylor Mays?

Give me Mays over Earl Thomas every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[3irty1]

With the parity measures built into the NFL you've got to find value anywhere you can get it. In the draft that would mean spending your picks on players with attributes that are undervalued by the rest of the league. You're advocating the opposite.

[pbmax]

Not true. Why do the NFL have a combine because they are looking for big fast human beings. Scenario you have two high school QB's with the same arm strength, but one qb is 6.4 220 Lbs and the other qb is 5:11 205, which player do you think has a better chance of landing a major scholarship? The big qb

The fact that the Packer's don't offer scholarships probably explains the lack of blue chip prospects in Green Bay.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The fact that the Packer's don't offer scholarships probably explains the lack of blue chip prospects in Green Bay.

It could help in the cheerleading department

[red]

i don't care if they're big or small, i just wish our guys we better

[dahammer001]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I knew when I started this discussion it would up in the toilet. I'm through....

[Fritz]

Who would you take an athletic 5:8 cb or athletic 6;1 cb? Always take the bigger guy.

That's what your mom said.

[pbmax]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I knew when I started this discussion it would up in the toilet. I'm through....

Oh c'mon, you have everyone's attention now. Don't give up on us yet! Fritz and I have more snide remarks!

Having just complained in another thread that short Daniels and Raji offered little in the way of batting passes around, I get what you are driving at.

But a team that holds only to certain specs is going to miss out on good football players. Honey Badger doesn't fit the profile at safety and James Harrison would be terrifying people at a dentist's office. Thompson has said he sometimes needs to be reminded by his staff to just get football players and not worry about the underwear olympics.

The Packers have had trouble getting 3 down D lineman in the draft. There is not doubt about that.

[Zool]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I knew when I started this discussion it would up in the toilet. I'm through....

NFL people have forgotten more about football than everyone here knows. Thinking you know more than they do is your mistake in this case. You gotta own that.

[ThunderDan]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I knew when I started this discussion it would up in the toilet. I'm through....

Sure, if two players were exactly the same except height I would take the taller player. But no two players are the same.

If winning the combine was the know all/tell all of the NFL Todd Marinovich, Tony Mandarich, Ryan Leaf all would have been multiple Pro Bowlers and All Pros.

The other problem is that the players that combine size and athleticism are usually drafted in the top 10 or so spots. Every year you hear that the top X picks are where you want to be and after that there is a drop off in talent. The Packers have only drafted in that position 1 time in the last 10 years.

[Fritz]

Sure, if two players were exactly the same except height I would take the taller player. But no two players are the same.

If winning the combine was the know all/tell all of the NFL Todd Marinovich, Tony Mandarich, Ryan Leaf all would have been multiple Pro Bowlers and All Pros.

The other problem is that the players that combine size and athleticism are usually drafted in the top 10 or so spots. Every year you hear that the top X picks are where you want to be and after that there is a drop off in talent. The Packers have only drafted in that position 1 time in the last 10 years.

Was it twice? I'm thinking of Hawk and Raji.

[mraynrand]

Was it twice? I'm thinking of Hawk and Raji.

Yep.

My mind was going back to that horrible Hasselbeck trade that moved us up to get Reynolds (#10). That was 2001. And the Horrible Pick of never uninjured Justin Harrell (#16) in 2007. But Hawk and Raji only picks in top 10 last 10.

[ThunderDan]

Was it twice? I'm thinking of Hawk and Raji.

Yep, you were right. Apparently, my mind was trying to forgot that Raji was that high of a pick.

[Striker]

I'm tired of seeing Ted draft small corners, Small average wide receivers, Short defensive lineman, quit trying to convert defensive linemen into outside linebackers with no coverage skills.

I have noticed a pattern of drafting 5:10 db's recently and this has to stop because the rest of the league is trotting out wr's that are 6.4 and taller, you're not giving the db's any kind of chance at being successful.

Darrelle Revis. Vontae Davis. Chris Harris.



I have noticed a pattern of drafting 6 foot wr's when everybody in the league is getting tall wr's which can cause match up problems.

Well, Jordy is their 6'3'' "matchup problem". But he's injured.

A good number of those matchup nightmare taller WRs also are usually mid-high first rounders that aren't around when the Packers pick.




If Ted draft another 6 foot defensive tackle in next year draft I will lose my mind. None of these guys can knock a pass down to save their life.

Please quit trying to make average defensive ends into outside linebackers. No coverage skills. Let's actually draft a real outside linebacker.[/QUOTE]

You won't get as much an argument from me with converting players with speed issues. But, maybe the coordinator could find other ways to disguise these players?

[ThunderDan]

So I just looked at the DL on Packers.com:

Raji - 6'2"
Daniels - 6'0"
Pennel - 6'4"
Guion - 6'4"
Jones - 6'4"
Neal - 6'3"
Perry - 6'3"
Peppers - 6'7"

[Pugger]

Oh c'mon, you have everyone's attention now. Don't give up on us yet! Fritz and I have more snide remarks!

Having just complained in another thread that short Daniels and Raji offered little in the way of batting passes around, I get what you are driving at.

But a team that holds only to certain specs is going to miss out on good football players. Honey Badger doesn't fit the profile at safety and James Harrison would be terrifying people at a dentist's office. Thompson has said he sometimes needs to be reminded by his staff to just get football players and not worry about the underwear olympics.

The Packers have had trouble getting 3 down D lineman in the draft. There is not doubt about that.

And it isn't for lack of trying. Most of these guys just didn't work out.

2005 Montgomery
2006 Jolly
2007 Harrell
2008 J. Thompson
2009 Raji, Wynn
2010 Neal, Wilson
2011 Guy
2012 Worthy, Daniels
2013 Jones, Boyd
2014 Thorton
2015 Ringo

[Patler]

I think some of you guys are missing the point. I knew when I started this discussion it would up in the toilet. I'm through....

The problem is, many of your perceptions are wrong, making the premise of your argument weak For example, you said:


I have noticed a pattern of drafting 6 foot wr's when everybody in the league is getting tall wr's which can cause match up problems.

Going backward in time:
Adams is 6'1", Janus is 6'3", Charles Johnson is 6'2", Kevin Dorsey 6'1", Abbrederis is 6'1", Nelson 6'3", Jones 6'1"

So is the pattern you have noticed Montgomery and Cobb? Or are you still concerned about the guys he drafted 10 years ago, like Jennings? I'll take all three, along with Murphy (6'1") Granted, they haven't been able to get the 6'5" monsters, but how many good ones are available when your average draft position the last 5 drafts is #27.4?


You also wrote:



I have noticed a pattern of drafting 5:10 db's recently and this has to stop because the rest of the league is trotting out wr's that are 6.4 and taller, you're not giving the db's any kind of chance at being successful.


Randall 5'11", Rollins 5'11", Clinton-Dix 6'1", Goodson -5'11", Hyde - 6'0", Hayward - 5'11", McMillian - 5'11", House - 6'0", Burnett - 6'1", Underwood 6'1". None of the monster DBs that some have landed, but all in all, not small either. The point is, NONE hit your stated fact of a pattern for 5'10".

When you make an argument based on facts, but you provide us with incorrect facts, this group will be a bit hard on you.

Many of us would like to see more of the taller type receivers, and one of the talented giants would be a nice target for Rodgers. Some bigger DBs would be nice, too.

But, again, when your average draft slot is #27.4, the talented physical freaks are gone, and you are left with talented but more average size people, or physical freaks who are development projects. TT has taken a smattering of both types.

[bobblehead]

When you make an argument based on facts, but you provide us with incorrect facts, this group will be a bit hard on you.
.

Did I mention that I was named after Sir Edmond Hillary?

[pbmax]

Did I mention that I was named after Sir Edmond Hillary?

So is bobblehead an honorific?