More Banjo: Week10 vs Lions

[pbmax]

Look at it this way; Jim Caldwell is likelier to stay employed with the Lions now.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT4i6UxWcAATub6.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Also on the plus side, Magic Abby does not have a concussion according to early indications. Just possible paralysis.

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 50m50 minutes ago
Packers medical staff appears to be looking at Abbrederis' upper back.

Later, he was with McKenzie and not Gray the neuro guy.

[mraynrand]

Nice page taken out of the Belichick playbook by Detroit. Just keep nudging and bumping and pulling. Interfere on every play, and they can't call it all.

And for those tempted, it was not the reason the Packers lost.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Nice page taken out of the Belichick playbook by Detroit. Just keep nudging and bumping and pulling. Interfere on every play, and they can't call it all.

And for those tempted, it was not the reason the Packers lost.

Exactly. They lost in a comedy of errors. Missed blocks. Missed tackles. Dropped passes. Misthrown passes. Bad punting. Bad kicking. Bad clock management. Bad gameplan. ...Did I miss something?

[pbmax]

Pete Dougherty ‏@PeteDougherty 59s59 seconds ago
Packers official post game injury report: Abbrederis ribs, Bakhtiari knee, Clinton-Dix being evaluated for concussion

[Patler]

Exactly. They lost in a comedy of errors. Missed blocks. Missed tackles. Dropped passes. Misthrown passes. Bad punting. Bad kicking. Bad clock management. Bad gameplan. ...Did I miss something?

Running game?

[pbmax]

Running game?

They have to get out of that shotgun wing formation for no reason other than to help the run game. Last year Lacy was able to run out of it, but no one has this year.

Make it the pistol at least.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'm listening to Stubby's PC...he's in total denial and he's totally calm. Not the least bit emotive. Said: "Division games are always tough." BS BS BS BS

[red]

I'm listening to Stubby's PC...he's in total denial and he's totally calm. Not the least bit emotive. Said: "Division games are always tough." BS BS BS BS

thats why i believe its time for him to go. he's way past his due date

he just doesn't see what everyone else does. he can't see the forest through the trees

but then you have people that will say "just because he doesn't get emotional, doesn't mean he doesn't know theres a problem". i call bullshit. if that was the case, shit would at least get fixed every now and then

nothing ever does

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 16m16 minutes ago
McCarthy: Disappointing, tough, hard-fought loss here. Always hurts to lose at Lambeau. Division games are always tough to win. #DETvsGB

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 16m16 minutes ago
McCarthy: Defense played well. Gave our offense opportunities. Definitely was pressure in passing game & run defense looked solid. #DETvsGB

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 8m8 minutes ago
Rodgers: Disappointing losing at home, haven't done that in awhile. We'll look at the film & make corrections tomorrow. #DETvsGB

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 4m4 minutes ago
Rodgers: I'm never worried about the confidence level of this football team.


Real Refs for the Packers-Lions game found in Pennsylvania

AP Oddities ‏@AP_Oddities 16m16 minutes ago
2 zebras recaptured after escaping circus and running through Philadelphia streets: http://apne.ws/1lqrwpn #odd

[Maxie the Taxi]

Just finished watcdhing Arod's PC. He was asked directly about his poor play/throws. He was very testy. Said: "Which throws?!" Then, "I'll have to get back to you after I see the film." After that, he was very, very unemotional. However, you could tell there was deep disappointment brewing in the clubhouse. I have a feeling that some shoes are gonna drop behind the scenes because of this one. It's almost like the players know something's awry that they're not gonna mention in public.

[pbmax]

Re: Red

Not worried about him admitting anything during a PC. Worried about the next game plan.

[mraynrand]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 16m16 minutes ago
McCarthy: Disappointing, tough, hard-fought loss here. Always hurts to lose at Lambeau. Division games are always tough to win.

Actually no, no they are not. Not during most of McCarthy's tenure. More than half have been fairly easy, especially when other teams are having down years. This is a cop-out statement.

[pbmax]

Adam Czech ‏@adamczech 4m4 minutes ago
Since the Packers season is obviously over, anyone looking to sell a pair of tix to the Thanksgiving game for a decent price? #opportunist

[red]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 16m16 minutes ago
McCarthy: Defense played well. Gave our offense opportunities. Definitely was pressure in passing game & run defense looked solid. #DETvsGB



yeah, that one or two pressures we got sure were nice

maybe one day we'll get a sack or another knockdown

[denverYooper]

Re: Red

Not worried about him admitting anything during a PC. Worried about the next game plan.

This.

[pbmax]

Actually no, no they are not. Not during most of McCarthy's tenure. More than half have been fairly easy, especially when other teams are having down years. This is a cop-out statement.

Its a press conference. He is not going to tell you what he is actually thinking.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Arod: 35 for 61, 83.6 QB rating, 333 yds; 2 TD's and NO interceptions!

Starks lead rusher with 42 yds in 15 carries.

Adams: 21 targets, 10 rec.; 79 yds; NO td's.

Cobb: 10 targets, 5 rec. 53 yds; NO td's.

Jones: 2 targets, NO rec.

AND THESE THREE ARE OUR TOP, STARTING RECEIVERS.

Pathetic.

[red]

Arod: 35 for 61, 83.6 QB rating, 333 yds; 2 TD's and NO interceptions!

Starks lead rusher with 42 yds in 15 carries.

Adams: 21 targets, 10 rec.; 79 yds; NO td's.

Cobb: 10 targets, 5 rec. 53 yds; NO td's.

Jones: 2 targets, NO rec.

AND THESE THREE ARE OUR TOP, STARTING RECEIVERS.

Pathetic.

i'm gonna go ahead and say that detroit was the 3rd worst defense against the run coming into this game averaging 134 yards per game and 14 TD's given up on the season

[Maxie the Taxi]

Its a press conference. He is not going to tell you what he is actually thinking.

Understood. But if you read between the lines, this was different. Really, really, really was blowing smoke to the point I think he actually believed some it. I'd rather see a coach give a press conference like Rex Ryan. If Stubby is going full BS, why have a press conference? In that case, GB should hire Bagdad Bob.

[denverYooper]

Nice page taken out of the Belichick playbook by Detroit. Just keep nudging and bumping and pulling. Interfere on every play, and they can't call it all.

And for those tempted, it was not the reason the Packers lost.

Been that way since the Denver game at least. Broncos and Panthers did the same thing.

Pack's going to have to learn to deal with it.

[Carolina_Packer]

Actually no, no they are not. Not during most of McCarthy's tenure. More than half have been fairly easy, especially when other teams are having down years. This is a cop-out statement.

I guess as a coach you probably want to take the high road when faced with a bad situation. The Packers have had great success at home and especially in the division, save for 2013 when Rodgers was out. If you don't give the other team some credit, it makes you look bad. I think he knows he had the better team, certainly the better QB, and is now losing at home to a struggling Lions team. Well, it can only go up from here.

I say short-term, don't worry about anyone's feelings. If McCarthy needs to assert himself more into the game-planning, and even play calling, by all means. Strategy though, only takes you so far. They need rhythm and execution of the plays being called, but they also need to be a lot less predictable to defend. The coverage windows are so tight right now. Once again, I think they have lost their balance, and need to find the run game again. Why revert now? They have to get teams to respect a run game again. Starks was good against San Diego. I know Denver and Carolina were road games and they have tough defenses, but there should have been way more running game today. The game was never completely out of reach in terms of number of scores. To abandon the run game, save for the drives where they needed to hurry up was a mistake.

[denverYooper]

Starks is fat.

[red]

see this is what i'm saying

its one thing if he doesn't bring up the problems, but then fixes the problems.

he doesn't bring up the problems, says he doesn't see the problems, and then doesn't fix the problem

it that case, to me, he looks like he's completely fucked in the head

[red]

Starks is fat.

and a fumbler

[denverYooper]

Of course Abbrederis comes in, gets hot, and gets injured.

[red]

Of course Abbrederis comes in, gets hot, and gets injured.

you didn't need a crystal ball to see that one coming

[mraynrand]

Been that way since the Denver game at least. Broncos and Panthers did the same thing.

Pack's going to have to learn to deal with it.

The bumping was more pronounced in this game. But it doesn't matter - teams have figured the Packers out: you can run man coverage, pressure Rodgers and the offense is finished. The main O problems are:
1) The O-line - they just can't block right now. The Tackles surrender three steps on every pass-pro - the play is lost even before the snap, due to their degraded, unconfident technique. They can't run block either. Guys are routinely missing blocks - many times two or three on each play. All too common look of the O-line - is guys standing around looking at the RB or Rodgers getting off the ground after they allowed their man to scoot into the backfield. Awful stuff.
2) Receivers - they cannot get open against man coverage - many times with no holding, etc.
3) Because of (1) and (2) Rodgers has become skittish and unconfident. And he is getting beat up and injured.
4) Lacy is fat
5) Starks is limited as a runner
6) TE is non-existent
7) Check-down is non-existent
8) Packer O is limited. Lining up the same way on too many plays.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The bumping was more pronounced in this game. But it doesn't matter - teams have figured the Packers out: you can run man coverage, pressure Rodgers and the offense is finished. The main O problems are:
1) The O-line - they just can't block right now. The Tackles surrender three steps on every pass-pro - the play is lost even before the snap, due to their degraded, unconfident technique. They can't run block either. Guys are routinely missing blocks - many times two or three on each play. All too common look of the O-line - is guys standing around looking at the RB or Rodgers getting off the ground after they allowed their man to scoot into the backfield. Awful stuff.
2) Receivers - they cannot get open against man coverage - many times with no holding, etc.
3) Because of (1) and (2) Rodgers has become skittish and unconfident. And he is getting beat up and injured.
4) Lacy is fat
5) Starks is limited as a runner
6) TE is non-existent
7) Check-down is non-existent
8) Packer O is limited. Lining up the same way on too many plays.

You know it. I know it. pb knows it. We all know it. Question: Does Stubby know it? More important question: Does Stubby know what to do about it? Most important question: Will Stubby do something about it???

[pbmax]

Understood. But if you read between the lines, this was different. Really, really, really was blowing smoke to the point I think he actually believed some it. I'd rather see a coach give a press conference like Rex Ryan. If Stubby is going full BS, why have a press conference? In that case, GB should hire Bagdad Bob.

I know what you are trying to say, but Rex Ryan is the exact coach I want to avoid. He's no better than Ray Rhodes. Lots of bluster and smoke and then ever increasing disappointing results.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I know what you are trying to say, but Rex Ryan is the exact coach I want to avoid. He's no better than Ray Rhodes. Lots of bluster and smoke and then ever increasing disappointing results.

Don't Stubby's come packaged in Ryan personalities? Maybe like Bill Cowher? Just asking.

[pbmax]

Don't Stubby's come packaged in Ryan personalities? Maybe like Bill Cowher? Just asking.

What would you be saying about Year 16 of Cowher with only 1 Super Bowl win? Are you as patient as the Rooneys? :D

If I had to have a new coach it would be McCoy or Case with Fangio as DC.

[red]

lebeau looks like he'll be a free agent next season.

how bout we replace capers with the real brains behind his scheme?

[Maxie the Taxi]

What would you be saying about Year 16 of Cowher with only 1 Super Bowl win? Are you as patient as the Rooneys? :D

If I had to have a new coach it would be McCoy or Case with Fangio as DC.

Stubby has been here 10 and is on pace to match Cowher. ...Look, you know what I mean. He could even be taciturn and obnoxious like Belicheat and I'd like it better. Just cut the BS.

[Maxie the Taxi]

lebeau looks like he'll be a free agent next season.

how bout we replace capers with the real brains behind his scheme?

How old is LeBeau now? About 95?

[red]

How old is LeBeau now? About 95?

how old is capers

don't let the colored hair fool you

[Maxie the Taxi]

how old is capers

don't let the colored hair fool you

At least his hair is young. LOL

[red]

lebaeu is 78, capers is 65 btw

[pbmax]

I think, in a scheme way, it all comes down to the O line. M3 is stubborn to give them help and he doesn't like to alter the plan to accommodate for them. Lack of TEs doesn't help.

I think part of this is waiting for them to come around.

[call_me_ishmael]

Understood. But if you read between the lines, this was different. Really, really, really was blowing smoke to the point I think he actually believed some it. I'd rather see a coach give a press conference like Rex Ryan. If Stubby is going full BS, why have a press conference? In that case, GB should hire Bagdad Bob.

He has to have a press conference because the NFL mandates it. I am guessing he would rather not.

[pbmax]

We're on to Minneapolis.

[Patler]

I, for one, will be shocked if this team really is as bad as it has been the last 4 games.
I think the ship will be righted, and next week would be a perfect time for it to start.

However, I do not expect anything to be easy the remainder of the season, and next week could be another loss albeit a more competitive loss.

[Patler]

Just to make everyone feel just a little bit worse about the loss, per JSO:


Coming into the game, opposing quarterbacks had completed 73.1% of their passes and posted a cumulative 111.1 passer rating against the Lions. Opponents were converting 43.9% of their third downs against them.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/aaron-rodgers-offensive-unit-out-of-sync-again-b99614546z1-350311971.html

[mraynrand]

At least his hair is young. LOL

I'm not sure what species that pelt is, but I can tell you it is scrupulously maintained.

[red]

Said Packers G Josh Sitton, “We all need to step back and take a look in the mirror — players, coaches, everybody. We’ve got to execute better. We’ve got to call better plays. We’ve got to play better.”

where theres smoke theres fire

[channtheman]

What was the deal with Rodgers rolling his eyes at the sideline reporter before going back on the field at some point in the game? Anyone else remember hearing that during the game?

[ThunderDan]

Not sure where to put this but here goes.

I was at the game yesterday. It started really loud at Lambeau. The D held Det to 2 three and outs to start the game. The O had a sustained drive to get 3. And then the last two minutes of the 2nd Q and first two minutes of the 3rd Q happened.

Why is MM calling timeouts when DET has the ball at midfield at the end of the half? This is the head scratcher of the whole game. Even if effect, which it was he had to know we would get the ball somewhere around our own 10 yard line. If we can't pick up a first down DET would get the ball back around the 50 and have time to get a FG which they did. Those 3 points cost us the game no matter how poorly O played for most of the game.

The D held DET in check all day but for 1 drive and if one of the DTs was an inch taller he would have gotten enough of Stafford's leg to bring him down and stop that drive as a 3 and out also. Instead he hit Stafford's foot and made him stumble but Stafford was still able to hit his WR.

Rodgers was missing throws by 5-10 yards. The crowd started booing. But as soon as GB scored their first TD it got real loud again. Crazy ending to the game. I am still not sure what happened on the FG attempt. The look on Crosby's face was one of puzzlement. Like he hit the ball fine but it came off like a mishit.

ST was brutal in all aspects.

The other thing that just had to wrong was DET declining the hold on 3 and 2. Then after the see GB keep their O on the field call the ref over and accept the penalty. That just seems blatantly unfair to me. It wouldn't surprise me if the refs fucked up again. I don't even want to get into those MFers.

[red]

Not sure where to put this but here goes.

I was at the game yesterday. It started really loud at Lambeau. The D held Det to 2 three and outs to start the game. The O had a sustained drive to get 3. And then the last two minutes of the 2nd Q and first two minutes of the 3rd Q happened.

Why is MM calling timeouts when DET has the ball at midfield at the end of the half? This is the head scratcher of the whole game. Even if effect, which it was he had to know we would get the ball somewhere around our own 10 yard line. If we can't pick up a first down DET would get the ball back around the 50 and have time to get a FG which they did. Those 3 points cost us the game no matter how poorly O played for most of the game.

The D held DET in check all day but for 1 drive and if one of the DTs was an inch taller he would have gotten enough of Stafford's leg to bring him down and stop that drive as a 3 and out also. Instead he hit Stafford's foot and made him stumble but Stafford was still able to hit his WR.

Rodgers was missing throws by 5-10 yards. The crowd started booing. But as soon as GB scored their first TD it got real loud again. Crazy ending to the game. I am still not sure what happened on the FG attempt. The look on Crosby's face was one of puzzlement. Like he hit the ball fine but it came off like a mishit.

the ball hit mashtays non holding hand

ST was brutal in all aspects.

The other thing that just had to wrong was DET declining the hold on 3 and 2. Then after the see GB keep their O on the field call the ref over and accept the penalty. That just seems blatantly unfair to me. It wouldn't surprise me if the refs fucked up again. I don't even want to get into those MFers.

the ball hit mashtays non holding hand

[Maxie the Taxi]

Why is MM calling timeouts when DET has the ball at midfield at the end of the half? This is the head scratcher of the whole game. Even if effect, which it was he had to know we would get the ball somewhere around our own 10 yard line. If we can't pick up a first down DET would get the ball back around the 50 and have time to get a FG which they did.

What blew up the TO strategy was 1) great Detroit punt that pinned GB on it's own 5; 2) third down and three RUN by Starks.

Getting the ball on the 20 from a touchback, or even around the 10 might have been workable for our offense to get a 1st down or more. But getting the ball on the 5 should have been a signal to Stubby to run out the clock.

OR, if Stubby decided that even on the 5 he wanted to try for a 1st down or more (which seems to be the case), his decision to RUN the ball on third and three from the GB 12 is inexplicable. Was Stubby trying to run the clock down? NO, Detroit still had all its TO's left (a fact Stubby should have known). Was he trying to get the 1st down? If so, it was critical he get it. Was a Starks run up the middle really the best thing he had in his playbook for such a critical play? A RUN may have worked, but as pbmax was saying throughout the game, the no huddle really limits your run options.

Maybe Stubby SHOULD go back to playcalling. He's certainly better at that than he is at clock management.

[Maxie the Taxi]

the ball hit mashtays non holding hand

Is that settled science? It is just as likely that Crosby hit a knuckleball. But it did seem that Masthay was on drugs the whole game. LOL

[pbmax]

Maybe self scout means on thing to M3 and another to everyone else. Because he sometimes doesn't seem to recognize his own team.

To answer TD's question, Mike Perreira, who didn't really sound that convincing, said the rule is that they are not supposed to allow a team to change their decision on accepting a penalty. But as a matter of course, they normally allow it.

The Unspoken Rules of Football Part II

[pbmax]

The Packer Ranter ‏@PackerRanter 2h2 hours ago
The genius thing about how the #Packers' offensive staff is structured is that Packers fans have no clue who to fire! Lolololol.

[mraynrand]

the ball hit mashtays non holding hand

I looked at this and saw nothing of the sort. The kick was clean into the ball; Crosby's foot and leg touched nothing else - at least from the angle I saw in HD. Also, laces out!

[ThunderDan]

What blew up the TO strategy was 1) great Detroit punt that pinned GB on it's own 5; 2) third down and three RUN by Starks.

Getting the ball on the 20 from a touchback, or even around the 10 might have been workable for our offense to get a 1st down or more. But getting the ball on the 5 should have been a signal to Stubby to run out the clock.

OR, if Stubby decided that even on the 5 he wanted to try for a 1st down or more (which seems to be the case), his decision to RUN the ball on third and three from the GB 12 is inexplicable. Was Stubby trying to run the clock down? NO, Detroit still had all its TO's left (a fact Stubby should have known). Was he trying to get the 1st down? If so, it was critical he get it. Was a Starks run up the middle really the best thing he had in his playbook for such a critical play? A RUN may have worked, but as pbmax was saying throughout the game, the no huddle really limits your run options.

Maybe Stubby SHOULD go back to playcalling. He's certainly better at that than he is at clock management.

I understand calling timeouts when you have the other team deep on their side of the 50. But DET is just as likely to get a 1st down there and then have the additional time needed to get a shot at a TD and default back to a long FG if they can't move it farther.

[ThunderDan]

I understand calling timeouts when you have the other team deep on their side of the 50. But DET is just as likely to get a 1st down there and then have the additional time needed to get a shot at a TD and default back to a long FG if they can't move it farther.

When we got the ball at the 5 and didn't pick up a 1st down on first down, I don't think we should have run hurry up at that point. The chance of giving the ball back to DET in good position was just too high. Slow it down and run clock. Take it in 3-0 at half.

[Maxie the Taxi]

When we got the ball at the 5 and didn't pick up a 1st down on first down, I don't think we should have run hurry up at that point. The chance of giving the ball back to DET in good position was just too high. Slow it down and run clock. Take it in 3-0 at half.

Exactly. The whole strategy was screwed. Maybe by calling time outs when Detroit had the ball, Stubby was just flexing his newsly acquired game management muscles. He just didn't think it through. It's like, be careful what you wish for:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpmW4yrOaPG1TBX0j1njGVU-4L7UbIX19iK2_yAR-f7XrXg0JW

[Freak Out]

What was the deal with Rodgers rolling his eyes at the sideline reporter before going back on the field at some point in the game? Anyone else remember hearing that during the game?

It was Erin I think.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I understand calling timeouts when you have the other team deep on their side of the 50. But DET is just as likely to get a 1st down there and then have the additional time needed to get a shot at a TD and default back to a long FG if they can't move it farther.

I agree with you and thought the same thing as it was happening.

[pbmax]

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 4h4 hours ago
I'll never not be impressed when the DB times it right without even looking at the ball.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT70P56UcAElnFQ.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Exactly. The whole strategy was screwed. Maybe by calling time outs when Detroit had the ball, Stubby was just flexing his newsly acquired game management muscles. He just didn't think it through. It's like, be careful what you wish for:
https://enrXg0JW

He has done that before. That is old school M3.

[denverYooper]

He has done that before. That is old school M3.

Exactly.

I'd be curious to know how many times it's worked out well for him because I mostly remember it backfiring.

[pbmax]

Exactly.

I'd be curious to know how many times it's worked out well for him because I mostly remember it backfiring.

I agree. Packers really need Mike to take a statistics course and learn the difference between correlation and causality.

[red]

''It's the efficiency of our fundamentals,'' he added. ''I don't mean to keep going back to that, but that's where the focus of trust of confidence is.''

so now we're back to pad level being the problem

:bang:

[denverYooper]

Brett ChristophersonVerified account
‏@PCBrettC
Sitton: "Teams know exactly what we're going to do every week. We need to show them some different things." #Clubhouse #Packers

[mraynrand]

Sitton: "Teams know exactly what we're going to do every week. We need to show them some different things."

Yes, they know you are going to let defensive linemen get to Rodgers in about 1.5 seconds. Maybe try blocking them up? That would be different.

[Striker]

so now we're back to pad level being the problem

:bang:

Well, it is fundamentals. Rodgers' mechanics are off. The receivers aren't catching easy passes. The line is just mentally failing at the worst times.

[pbmax]

so now we're back to pad level being the problem

:bang:

Sometimes you need to start from square one.

"Gentleman, this is a football..."

[pbmax]

Every team with a putrid offensive performance makes this excuse. Its at least the third time I have heard it this year.

The charm of Sitton from Pitch Perfect 2 is wearing thin.

They know what you like to do and its failing because you are doing it terribly.

[denverYooper]

Evan Silva ‏@evansilva 4m4 minutes ago
Current state of #Packers offense:

- Little to no running game.
- WRs don't win vs man covg.
- Rodgers dropping his eyes.

[mraynrand]

Every team with a putrid offensive performance makes this excuse. Its at least the third time I have heard it this year.

The charm of Sitton from Pitch Perfect 2 is wearing thin.

They know what you like to do and its failing because you are doing it terribly.


"Sir, you're not even doing it right"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMjqi8XPyls

[mraynrand]

Evan Silva ‏@evansilva 4m4 minutes ago
Current state of #Packers offense:

- Little to no running game.
- WRs don't win vs man covg.
- Rodgers dropping his eyes.


O-line off the hook again. Evan Silva taking his cue from serial O-line apologist Mark Tauscher...

[Maxie the Taxi]

Sometimes you need to start from square one.

"Gentleman, this is a football..."

"Not so fast, not so fast."

[denverYooper]

O-line off the hook again. Evan Silva taking his cue from serial O-line apologist Mark Tauscher...

I agree with you on the shaky OL. Rodgers drops his eyes because he has no safe port in a storm.

[ThunderDan]

Brett ChristophersonVerified account
‏@PCBrettC
Sitton: "Teams know exactly what we're going to do every week. We need to show them some different things." #Clubhouse #Packers

Could you even imagine someone on a Bud Grant or Tom Landry or Vince Lombardi team saying that?

[Patler]

Could you even imagine someone on a Bud Grant or Tom Landry or Vince Lombardi team saying that?

Ya, but I wonder what those guys would have had to do to remain successful in the NFL as it is now known. To some extent their philosophies of simply executing better than your opponent might still hold, but they, too, relied on the element of surprise. Even though we as fans could almost sense when an option pass might be coming from Hornung, Pitts or Moore, or when Starr would run play action on 3rd and 1, then throw deep; those plays routinely caught defenses by surprise. With the great amount of data now available, defenses would be prepared for those, and Lombardi would have had to be more creative.

[Maxie the Taxi]

When 90% of your players are Hall of Famers, you can afford to concentrate on execution.

[Patler]

When 90% of your players are Hall of Famers, you can afford to concentrate on execution.

That is a given, and in Lombardi's time there was no such concept as parity among NFL teams. You could ride the talent of every good player you found for 15 years, or however long he lasted. The ability to out execute your opponent made sense when you had cornered a high percentage of the talent.

[Maxie the Taxi]

That is a given, and in Lombardi's time there was no such concept as parity among NFL teams. You could ride the talent of every good player you found for 15 years, or however long he lasted. The ability to out execute your opponent made sense when you had cornered a high percentage of the talent.

Exactly. Moreover, the great Packer teams of the 60's rode on the backs of the poor Packer teams of the 50's. Lombardi arrived with a crap load of high draft choices to work with.

[pbmax]

Less offseason work and the longer camp, mostly to get players back in shape, also meant that the coaches could drill incessantly on the same techniques over and over. Paradoxically, year round conditioning has led to shorter camps (some causation, much correlation), which gives less time to drill and more time for coaches to scheme it up.

Free agency and player movement just exacerbates this.