Now we get to see if MM's is right. [Archive]

Patler

11-15-2015, 04:39 PM

MM has repeatedly said he feels he has the best coaching staff in the league.
He has said he doesn't question or worry about the team leadership.
Well, its time to prove he is right.

There have been many examples of highly regarded sports teams heading off the tracks during the course of a season. It is up to the coaches and team leaders to see that the season isn't completely derailed. This is beyond waiting for them to come out of a funk. It is beyond minor tweaking for corrections.

Give up what you thought you wanted your offense to be, and focus on the parts you thought would b secondary, because your initial vision was flawed.

So far, the cumulative performance has been less than the sum of the parts.

red

11-15-2015, 04:45 PM

some people saw something wasn't quite right going into the bye week and hoped the team would fix some things then

after the bye week we saw the team doing the same damn things, nothing changed or got fixed

i'm not gonna hold by breath waiting for change from this staff

denverYooper

11-15-2015, 04:56 PM

They look lost.

The startling thing to me is how bad they seem to be at dealing with pressure, since their protection unit has been together for most of the last two years. Even the interior seems to just cave on a regular basis.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 04:59 PM

This team is going 6 weeks without a win.

They will lose badly next week at Minnesota. I predict MN 31, Pack 6.

Freak Out

11-15-2015, 05:09 PM

This team is going 6 weeks without a win.

They will lose badly next week at Minnesota. I predict MN 31, Pack 6.

If Monty and Lacy are back it won't be that bad. :) More like Dikes 27 - Pack 17.

esoxx

11-15-2015, 05:12 PM

Stubby

King Friday

11-15-2015, 06:16 PM

red

11-15-2015, 06:19 PM

Rutnstrut

11-15-2015, 06:30 PM

McCarthy's stubborn loyalty to his system and his way is what is destroying this team. He believes he can do the same thing game in and game out and win...because he's been blessed to have Favre and Rodgers under center for him.

Give McCarthy an average QB, and his team would never win more than 6 games in this league.

Holy shit, I've said the same thing here for the last few years and everyone jumps down my throat. At least there are others starting to see it. I would also add that Rodgers is possibly not as good as we thought. When things pretty much always go right, he does great. But when the going gets tough, he falls apart.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 06:33 PM

pbmax

11-15-2015, 06:34 PM

This team is going 6 weeks without a win.

They will lose badly next week at Minnesota. I predict MN 31, Pack 6.

Agree that they will be highly leveraged against in the Vikes game. But the turnaround starts versus the Bears the following week.

Rutnstrut

11-15-2015, 06:37 PM

Agree that they will be highly leveraged against in the Vikes game. But the turnaround starts versus the Bears the following week.

This week was suppose to be the turnaround...

Patler

11-15-2015, 06:38 PM

I would also add that Rodgers is possibly not as good as we thought. When things pretty much always go right, he does great. But when the going gets tough, he falls apart.

No, he does not fall apart. If he fell apart they would not have been within a whisper of tying last week and this week, both being games they had no business being close at the end of the game.

However, when the going gets tough, Rodgers often (too often) fails to deliver the final play needed for victory.

pittstang5

11-15-2015, 06:44 PM

They lost to a bad team..AT HOME! Unacceptable!

If today's loss didn't light a fire under everyone's ass - management, coaches, players, etc. Then this team has no hope for the rest of the season. Shit was going south during the San Diego game - the writing was on the wall then and there. They had plenty of time to figure it out.

Rodgers is broken, I don't know what's wrong with him. He's had 3 piss poor games in a row - Unheard of! Today, he was overthrowing, underthrowing - just sucking it up. Even when he was hurt last year, he played better than what I'm seeing. The defense still can't be counted on. well, we can count on them to fold when they are needed. And Special teams....Masthay is unpredictable, and again, coverage units suck when we need them.

MM has kept is "buddies" on the coaching staff. If he's unwilling to let someone go, then count me in as one who wants to see him go.

Losing to the Lions - At home. C'mon man! It just shouldn't have happened.

red

11-15-2015, 06:44 PM

See New Orleans, circa 2000. Aaron Brooks.

you mean back when his offenses were very average?

his rankings as offensive coordinator were 10th, 10th, 19th, 11th, 15th, 32nd in overall yards

10th, 13th, 3rd, 14th, 14th, 30th in points scored

rushing 8th, 18th, 17th, 11th, 27th, and 17th

passing 14th, 10th, 16th, 8th, 12th, 32nd

stellar

the guy got his job because of who he knew and his coaching tree, not because of his prior success

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 06:49 PM

If Monty and Lacy are back it won't be that bad. :) More like Dikes 27 - Pack 17.

Even if Lacy is back, he won't be a back - too fat and not enough holes to run through. Monty solve problems? Don't think so - again, the O-line (specifically the tackle position) is surrendering at the snap. And it seems to be spreading to the interior line.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 06:50 PM

This week was suppose to be the turnaround...

Not according to my crystal ball. M3 is still waiting for Monty to show up. This week demonstrated Adams alone isn't enough.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 06:51 PM

McCarthy's stubborn loyalty to his system and his way is what is destroying this team. He believes he can do the same thing game in and game out and win...because he's been blessed to have Favre and Rodgers under center for him.

Give McCarthy an average QB, and his team would never win more than 6 games in this league.

except that McCarthy made the QB. You can't have it both ways. Stubby is Stubby. He seems to be extremely Stubby right now, but anything he's doing is being sabotaged from multiple angles - O-line, RB, skittish QB, slogging and sluggish WRs.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 06:51 PM

you mean back when his offenses were very average?

his rankings as offensive coordinator were 10th, 10th, 19th, 11th, 15th, 32nd in overall yards

10th, 13th, 3rd, 14th, 14th, 30th in points scored

rushing 8th, 18th, 17th, 11th, 27th, and 17th

passing 14th, 10th, 16th, 8th, 12th, 32nd

stellar

the guy got his job because of who he knew and his coaching tree, not because of his prior success

He did that with Aaron "Freaking" Brooks. And with Jim "Not Ready For Prime Time" Haslett as HC. Those numbers are magic.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 06:52 PM

Not according to my crystal ball. M3 is still waiting for Monty to show up. This week demonstrated Adams alone isn't enough.

But abracadabra was there - getting open versus slot and 4/5 db. Can he do that at MN and keep it close?

denverYooper

11-15-2015, 07:02 PM

But abracadabra was there - getting open versus slot and 4/5 db. Can he do that at MN and keep it close?

If he can stay on the field, he might be interesting.

Let's just hope Rodgers doesn't get him brained again :taunt:

Rutnstrut

11-15-2015, 07:07 PM

pbmax

11-15-2015, 07:09 PM

But abracadabra was there - getting open versus slot and 4/5 db. Can he do that at MN and keep it close?

He was getting open and its probably not a coincidence that the offense started having bigger plays when he started to see the ball. But if he has hurt his back or neck or shoulder, then he might not be available.

Which reminds me of something. The Packers used to be able to compete passes no matter what, because their 3rd and 4th WR were better than your 3rd and 4th CB. Not exactly the case this year until Adams and one of Abby/Monty are back.

And that is the only other place I find fault with McCarthy's offensive coaching. 4 minute offense and tailoring an offense to talent different than expected in the offseason. Unlike the Patriots, it doesn't seem like a system that can have its emphasis changed in a couple of weeks.

Rutnstrut

11-15-2015, 07:17 PM

He was getting open and its probably not a coincidence that the offense started having bigger plays when he started to see the ball. But if he has hurt his back or neck or shoulder, then he might not be available.

Which reminds me of something. The Packers used to be able to compete passes no matter what, because their 3rd and 4th WR were better than your 3rd and 4th CB. Not exactly the case this year until Adams and one of Abby/Monty are back.

And that is the only other place I find fault with McCarthy's offensive coaching. 4 minute offense and tailoring an offense to talent different than expected in the offseason. Unlike the Patriots, it doesn't seem like a system that can have its emphasis changed in a couple of weeks.

Why can't they change their emphasis week to week? That's just suicide in the NFL, that's relying on little to no injuries. We all know that doesn't happen in GB, so you would think they would have adequate back up plans. It's just asking for failure to HOPE things will go as scripted and be inflexible.

Patler

11-15-2015, 07:19 PM

MM has kept is "buddies" on the coaching staff. If he's unwilling to let someone go, then count me in as one who wants to see him go.

He has fired more staff than any HC I can think of. He fired his entire defensive staff except Moss, he forced one STC into retirement and fired another. He fired ST assistants several times. He has fired a strength and conditioning coordinator, and I think one assistant.

His problem isn't firing people, it's choosing those to hire, and promote.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 07:26 PM

Why can't they change their emphasis week to week? That's just suicide in the NFL, that's relying on little to no injuries. We all know that doesn't happen in GB, so you would think they would have adequate back up plans. It's just asking for failure to HOPE things will go as scripted and be inflexible.

Lack of TEs doesn't help currently. But mainly its that the different flavors of Stubby's offense take time to switch out and reload. Its a big strike offense. NE will beat you to death with a jeweler's hammer.

Belichick has developed an offense (after his first two Super Bowl wins Charlie Weiss) that is a chameleon which can feature anyone of 3 different players in the passing game and it can all be short stuff with only Gronk and one WR going long.

M3 is somewhat inhibited by the WCO offense and bigger receivers (and no TE). When Monty comes back, he and Cobb can play games out of the backfield and get mismatches like Edelman and Amendola.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 07:27 PM

I wonder if Rodgers is, A- hiding an injury, or B- gun shy about getting injured again and holding back slightly? He just isn't playing anywhere near the level he has in the past. I have always believed Rodgers wasn't "clutch". But this isn't even that, he's just off.

I think Rodgers is a little off - lack of synch and confidence in receivers - and it's being made much worse due to the failures of the O-line and Lacy (fat) questionable, being severely diminished/out.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 07:28 PM

Lack of TEs doesn't help currently. But mainly its that the different flavors of Stubby's offense take time to switch out and reload. Its a big strike offense. NE will beat you to death with a jeweler's hammer.

Belichick has developed an offense (after his first two Super Bowl wins Charlie Weiss) that is a chameleon which can feature anyone of 3 different players in the passing game and it can all be short stuff with only Gronk and one WR going long.

M3 is somewhat inhibited by the WCO offense and bigger receivers (and no TE). When Monty comes back, he and Cobb can play games out of the backfield and get mismatches like Edelman and Amendola.

Perillo, Abracadabra and Monty may save the season - if - and it's a big if - the O-line can recover.

Maxie the Taxi

11-15-2015, 07:32 PM

Perillo, Abracadabra and Monty may save the season - if - and it's a big if - the O-line can recover.Recanting your 0 and 6 prediction already? :glug:

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 07:33 PM

Recanting your 0 and 6 prediction already? :glug:

? I don't recall. I did predict 9-7 for the season, but I thought it's be the defense collapsing.

Rutnstrut

11-15-2015, 07:33 PM

Lack of TEs doesn't help currently. But mainly its that the different flavors of Stubby's offense take time to switch out and reload. Its a big strike offense. NE will beat you to death with a jeweler's hammer.

Belichick has developed an offense (after his first two Super Bowl wins Charlie Weiss) that is a chameleon which can feature anyone of 3 different players in the passing game and it can all be short stuff with only Gronk and one WR going long.

M3 is somewhat inhibited by the WCO offense and bigger receivers (and no TE). When Monty comes back, he and Cobb can play games out of the backfield and get mismatches like Edelman and Amendola.

So basically it's the fact that stubby isn't a very good coach? Pretty much any coach can have success with great QB play and some luck as far as injuries go.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 07:35 PM

So basically it's the fact that stubby isn't a very good coach? Pretty much any coach can have success with great QB play and some luck as far as injuries go.

But where does the great QB play come from? It doesn't happen in isolation, just ask Steve Young about the Tampa years. Stubby gets credit for developing the offense and Rodgers and he gets 'credit' (blame) too for being Stubby and not being able to squeeze out wins with enough adjustments when the chips are down.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 07:40 PM

? I don't recall. I did predict 9-7 for the season, but I thought it's be the defense collapsing.

Another thread you predicted (fake alarm I thought) a six game slide for the Pack.

Perillo is intriguing. Rodgers likes him for some reason and he throws it to him in the middle of the field. Making him one of two (Cobb) to qualify for that honor. Richard and Q only get partial credit on that.

mraynrand

11-15-2015, 07:45 PM

Another thread you predicted (fake alarm I thought) a six game slide for the Pack.

Oh, no. I was saying they wouldn't win for 6 weeks. That's from the San Diego game to the game after the Vikings in two weeks. Calendar time they are gonna go six weeks without a win!!

denverYooper

11-15-2015, 08:03 PM

Perillo, Abracadabra and Monty may save the season - if - and it's a big if - the O-line can recover.

That TD to Perillo is exactly why Rodgers needs to "trust" his guys. It was one of the better plays in a game where there were few. He threw it before Perillo got out of his break. If Perillo doesn't run the route to the right spot at the right depth, that ball goes right to the defender.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 08:11 PM

That TD to Perillo is exactly why Rodgers needs to "trust" his guys. It was one of the better plays in a game where there were few. He threw it before Perillo got out of his break. If Perillo doesn't run the route to the right spot at the right depth, that ball goes right to the defender.

Perillo was triple covered when he threw it. It was remarkable.

Adams had a deep route where his spacing was bad. He left little space between himself and the sideline and Rodgers throw was then shy of him.

Patler

11-15-2015, 08:17 PM

so lets see.......
He finally threw to Abbrederis, and it worked.
He threw to Perilo, and it worked.
Funny how that happens. If you give them a chance, sometimes young guys who make a roster can make a play!

I really think Favre took too many ill-advised risks; but I also believe Rodgers takes too few risks.

pbmax

11-15-2015, 08:57 PM

Patler

11-15-2015, 09:09 PM

Hell, i doubt he even threw to Abbrederis in camp last year the two days or so that he was there. Rodgers made what, one comment, and the Badger fans wouldn't let us forget it?

It's funny because in the last few articles the coaches almost seem to be making excuses for Rodgers re Janis.

But that never has been my complaint. It wasn't just about Janis. For several days I always mentioned both Abbrederis and Janis, both of whom were being ignored.

If Rodgers loved Abbrederis so much, why hasn't he been invoved sooner?

pbmax

11-15-2015, 09:14 PM

If Rodgers loved Abbrederis so much, why hasn't he been invoved sooner?

He liked Perillo but Preillo got cut. Which is it, too much or not enough influence?

Patler

11-15-2015, 09:27 PM

He liked Perillo but Preillo got cut. Which is it, too much or not enough influence?

I have no clue, I don't care, and I never have cared. All that I have advocated is that they need to involve more than 3 WRs and 1 TE even if Adams is out, even if Montgomery is out and even when Cobb was limited. Adams being out and Montgomery being out is not a justification.

Today was the first day they have showed signs of breaking out of that. 9 catches for guys who would have been lucky to be targeted two weeks ago.

call_me_ishmael

11-15-2015, 09:46 PM

you mean back when his offenses were very average?

his rankings as offensive coordinator were 10th, 10th, 19th, 11th, 15th, 32nd in overall yards

10th, 13th, 3rd, 14th, 14th, 30th in points scored

rushing 8th, 18th, 17th, 11th, 27th, and 17th

passing 14th, 10th, 16th, 8th, 12th, 32nd

stellar

the guy got his job because of who he knew and his coaching tree, not because of his prior success

- Or - because TT hired for aptitude. If you believe what Troy, other announcers, and even connected beat writers say, MM is a premier offensive mind in the league.

call_me_ishmael

11-15-2015, 09:48 PM

Lack of TEs doesn't help currently. But mainly its that the different flavors of Stubby's offense take time to switch out and reload. Its a big strike offense. NE will beat you to death with a jeweler's hammer.

Belichick has developed an offense (after his first two Super Bowl wins Charlie Weiss) that is a chameleon which can feature anyone of 3 different players in the passing game and it can all be short stuff with only Gronk and one WR going long.

M3 is somewhat inhibited by the WCO offense and bigger receivers (and no TE). When Monty comes back, he and Cobb can play games out of the backfield and get mismatches like Edelman and Amendola.

I am not so sure BB developed the offense so much as skated to where the puck was going. He uses tons of college spread stuff, picks, etc. I see a pretty similar passing attack from Chipper Kelly and BB (admittedly, I don't watch a ton so I could be off base).

pbmax

11-15-2015, 10:15 PM

I am not so sure BB developed the offense so much as skated to where the puck was going. He uses tons of college spread stuff, picks, etc. I see a pretty similar passing attack from Chipper Kelly and BB (admittedly, I don't watch a ton so I could be off base).

Oh, he stole from everyone, including all his college coaching buddies. He runs no read option with Brady, but he does everything else. I did not mean that he invented new plays, but he rebuilt their playbook from the Rod Erhard base it sprung from.

red

11-16-2015, 08:45 AM

yup

m3-

“You just have to stay true to your preparation, don’t overreact, and keep things in perspective,” McCarthy said, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “That’s the reality of how we’re going to approach it.”

McCarthy said he won’t resume calling offensive plays, but opted not to delve into what might be behind the downturn in Rodgers’s play.

mraynrand

11-16-2015, 11:42 AM

Rodgers’s?

Maxie the Taxi

11-16-2015, 12:38 PM

Rodgers’s?

It's a southern thing...like "y'alls's."

George Cumby

11-16-2015, 01:37 PM

"All y'all" I believe is the alternative plural.

Pugger

11-16-2015, 06:58 PM

McCarthy's stubborn loyalty to his system and his way is what is destroying this team. He believes he can do the same thing game in and game out and win...because he's been blessed to have Favre and Rodgers under center for him.

Give McCarthy an average QB, and his team would never win more than 6 games in this league.

He sticks with his system because it has worked in the past. But if he cannot/will not tweak it when things are going south he won't be around very long.

denverYooper

11-16-2015, 08:35 PM

Rodgers’s?

That would be the proper possessive form of Rodgers :0.

But then this could be interpreted to mean that the downturn is far, far deeper than Rodgers.

mraynrand

11-16-2015, 09:11 PM

I had to look it up, because the alternative was to think about that final kick again (aw shit, I did it anyway). Take the pop quiz losers. I have the teachers's (teachers'?) edition with all the answers'

Apostrophes with Words Ending in s
While normal people wonder about apostrophes in general, believe it or not, word nerds have heated arguments over whether to use an additional s with singular possession.

Rule 1: Many common nouns end in the letter s (lens, cactus, bus, etc.). So do a lot of proper nouns (Mr. Jones, Texas, Christmas). There are conflicting policies and theories about how to show possession when writing such nouns. There is no right answer; the best advice is to choose a formula and stay consistent.
Some writers and editors add ‘s to every proper noun, be it Hastings’s or Jones’s. And there are a few who add only an apostrophe to all nouns ending in s—however, this method is relatively rare, and not recommended here.
One method, common in newspapers and magazines, is to add an apostrophe plus s (-‘s) to common nouns ending in s, but only a stand-alone apostrophe to proper nouns ending in s.

Examples:
the class’s hours
Mr. Jones’ golf clubs
The canvas’s size
Texas’ weather

Another widely used technique is to write the word as we would speak it. For example, since most people saying “Mr. Hastings’ pen” would not pronounce an added s, we would write Mr. Hastings’ pen with no added s. But most people would pronounce an added s in “Jones’s,” so we’d write it as we say it: Mr. Jones’s golf clubs. This method explains the punctuation of for goodness’ sake.

Rule 2: To show plural possession of a word ending in an s or s sound, form the plural first; then immediately use the apostrophe.

Examples:
the classes’ hours
the Joneses’ car
guys’ night out
two actresses’ roles

Pop Quiz
Place the apostrophe (and perhaps an s) where appropriate.

1. The classes opinions were predictable according to their grade levels.
2. The boss suit was brand new.
3. The bus steering wheel was wearing out.
4. The Crosses dog bit the mailman.
5. We understand Lagos airport handled over one million passengers last year.
6. The Smiths boat sank.

While normal people wonder about apostrophes in general...

I don't believe this for a second

red

11-16-2015, 09:26 PM

NO.......

I'M NOT DOING THAT!!!!!!!!!

I'M NOT HERE TO FUCKING LEARN, I'M HERE TO BITCH

NOTHING MORE.

mraynrand

11-16-2015, 09:35 PM

NO.......

I'M NOT DOING THAT!!!!!!!!!

I'M NOT HERE TO FUCKING LEARN, I'M HERE TO BITCH

NOTHING MORE.

you sound abnormal

pbmax

11-16-2015, 10:23 PM

Apostrophe at the end, after the terminal 's'.

Forming the plural first is an abomination.

Maxie the Taxi

11-17-2015, 07:55 AM

Y'alls's grammar up yonder sucks worse than the Packers'ss's OLine.

Fritz

11-17-2015, 04:19 PM

On a different note - but one that is about leadership, which was the original focus of this thread, albeit about the coaching staff - where the hell is Mike Daniels's voice in all this?

He was, for a while, the big vocal leader, calling people out and all that. Remember? We even discussed this extensively in a thread.

So where's his voice in the lockerroom? Where is his voice explaining this shit to the media and fans?

Calling Mike Daniels. Come in, Mike Daniels.