The real problem for the Packers

[Patler]

The real problem they face might be that the Vikings and Bears appear to have actual NFL caliber head coaches. Coaches who can get the best out of their rosters.

Could be entering another dark ages for the Packers.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

The real problem they face might be that the Vikings and Bears appear to have actual NFL caliber head coaches. Coaches who can get the best out of their rosters.

Could be entering another dark ages for the Packers.

Noooooo!! I don't have another dark age in me.

Me thinks this is just a dry spell, where the gods have decided everyone on the team is playing bad, including THE guy Rodgers vs the normal 1/2 doz guys per game.

Everyone is starting to pick the Vikings this week which means the real packers show up and win handily.

[mission]

MM is owed 20 million and his message / offense is just stale. Everyone can see it. He can't.
How can you fix something that you don't think is a problem?

[George Cumby]

Sorry OBNDY, they couldn't beat the Lions in Lambeau. They are now an official tire fire.

Minny wins this one.

[hoosier]

They're in a funk, yes. The way they respond in the next few weeks will tell a lot about McCarthy's ability to steady a listing ship. However, I wouldn't get too flustered by what the Vikings and Bears are doing yet. If GB plays to the level they are capable of playing they are better than either of them. If they are playing like they have the last three or four weeks they lose to them both, but then what does it matter?

Look around the NFL: there are lots and lots of teams that manage to put together a winning team for a year or two. The truly difficult task is to build a team that is consistently a contender. The Packers have been able to do that in large part because of the QB and because of continuity in the coaching staff. Eventually McCarthy will burn out or have a heart attack, but until that happens I don't see a reason to panic.

[Freak Out]

Nelson going down was such a killer..TT not replacing that deep threat when it happened so early was almost criminal considering how important it was last year....but he is in it for the long game.

[red]

it sure does seem like jordy is the real MVP of the team

we can't function in any aspect of the game without him

[Zool]

Or Clements is not good at calling games or getting a team ready to play?

[red]

Or Clements is not good at calling games or getting a team ready to play?

well, thats a given

[Rutnstrut]

Or Clements is not good at calling games or getting a team ready to play?

If that's so, it's on the head coach to see that and correct it.

[Joemailman]

Have to wonder if the changes on the offensive staff just haven't worked. The guy who was calling the plays last year isn't the calling the plays. The guy who was the OC up in the booth is now calling the plays. The guy who was the WR coach is now the OC. The guy who was the QB coach is now coaching the QB's and WR's.

I was fine with MM giving up the playcalling so he could focus more on overseeing the entire team. But why didn't they just leave the Clements as OC and let him call the plays? Isn't that what most OC's do?

[beveaux1]

I sometimes forget that this team won their first 6 games this year. They were not an offensive juggernaut by any stretch during that time, but they were able to score points at a rate that was indicative of missing your number 1 receiver.

Around the time of the Rams game, our offense has moved the ball at a much diminished rate. More 3 and outs, less sustained drives, and what APPEARS to be more pressure on the quarterback. Offenses have success and then defenses figure out new ways to limit the offense. They take things away. Normally, a new wrinkle is introduced by the offense, they have success, and the cycle begins again.

We haven't come up with that wrinkle, and that is something that, as a Packer fan who has had a successful team for the past 25 years, I am not used to seeing. Whatever the perceived faults of MM and Arod, they have never played 3 consecutive games that have been as dismal as these have been.

Teams have basically taken Cobb out of the game, and we have no answer. We string together 2 or 3 first downs, then punt. Run game does nothing, but I can't remember more than 2 times in a game that we've tried to run the ball 2 plays in succession. Are we sure the run game won't work? Teams are playing our WRs in tight man and we can't find anyone open. I may be mis-remembering, but in prior seasons , we took shots down the field that our receiver really had no separation from the defender and we completed them. What's different this year? I'm seeing accuracy issues for 5 games now that I can't remember seeing 2 games in a row in past years.

If I was forced to give an answer to why our offense is struggling, I would point to our QB having a very poor year by his standards, and not taking this team on his shoulders. He seems much more indecisive and skittish this year. What I believe we're seeing is what a team without an elite QB sees week after week. They can be blown out one week, but every week is a struggle. Without Rodgers at his best, even with pretty good overall personnel, this is an 8-8 team.

[Smidgeon]

I sometimes forget that this team won their first 6 games this year. They were not an offensive juggernaut by any stretch during that time, but they were able to score points at a rate that was indicative of missing your number 1 receiver.

Around the time of the Rams game, our offense has moved the ball at a much diminished rate. More 3 and outs, less sustained drives, and what APPEARS to be more pressure on the quarterback. Offenses have success and then defenses figure out new ways to limit the offense. They take things away. Normally, a new wrinkle is introduced by the offense, they have success, and the cycle begins again.

We haven't come up with that wrinkle, and that is something that, as a Packer fan who has had a successful team for the past 25 years, I am not used to seeing. Whatever the perceived faults of MM and Arod, they have never played 3 consecutive games that have been as dismal as these have been.

Teams have basically taken Cobb out of the game, and we have no answer. We string together 2 or 3 first downs, then punt. Run game does nothing, but I can't remember more than 2 times in a game that we've tried to run the ball 2 plays in succession. Are we sure the run game won't work? Teams are playing our WRs in tight man and we can't find anyone open. I may be mis-remembering, but in prior seasons , we took shots down the field that our receiver really had no separation from the defender and we completed them. What's different this year? I'm seeing accuracy issues for 5 games now that I can't remember seeing 2 games in a row in past years.

If I was forced to give an answer to why our offense is struggling, I would point to our QB having a very poor year by his standards, and not taking this team on his shoulders. He seems much more indecisive and skittish this year. What I believe we're seeing is what a team without an elite QB sees week after week. They can be blown out one week, but every week is a struggle. Without Rodgers at his best, even with pretty good overall personnel, this is an 8-8 team.

We're seeing a one dimensional team without a game changing WR. No RB is trucking down and adjective everything: o line, Rodgers' accuracy, etc.

[denverYooper]

We're seeing a one dimensional team without a game changing WR. No RB is trucking down and adjective everything: o line, Rodgers' accuracy, etc.

Yeah. I don't even think that it's because other teams are eliminating Cobb. He's dropped a lot of passes and/or not been on the same page with Rodgers. They're just not hooking up right now. I don't know if it's time to say that is because Cobb is limited or functions as a compliment to Jordy but he's struggling also to show he can function as a #1 receiver.

[pbmax]

I am starting to think that having the base offense and then the Rodgers version of the offense isn't helping right now. Normally, with a full complement of weapons, the adjustments the QB and WR do help flummox defenses who have adjusted to what they see on tape.

But now I think it helps to muddy the picture.

I have one example. Many have mentioned the Tackles tacking deep sets in pass pro in an effort to give Rodgers room to work and scramble. But those tackles are getting beat and when that happens off a deep set, they are immediately in the vicinity of the QB. Several times we have seen Rodgers try to escape right or left but there are two bodies there blocking the way.

One of the Rodgers offense adjustments is to leave a man unblocked (think Atlanta playoff game or the much more recent free rusher up the middle). Often that is planned and Rodgers is inviting a pass rush to pull one more guy out of coverage. To keep upright, Rodgers will roll out and move away from pressure. But if the Tackles are set deep and getting beat, then his escape routes are jammed.

Trying to fix this offense might be like undoing a knot.

[mraynrand]

The tackles can set deeper, and they can allow a pass rush, they just can't have it go back into Rodger's lap all the time. If they are going to let the pressure get up field, they at least have to direct it 'vertically' and not more 'horizontally' into Rodgers. IOW, they can get beat upfield, but not both ways. But it might be nice if they stood someone up a few times.

Leaving a guy unblocked means there has to be a hot read, right? Who the hell has that been?

[Bretsky]

Patler...is that your current feeling.......that our coaching staff is weak ? Just curious if that's where you are at.

[King Friday]

We're seeing a one dimensional team without a game changing WR. No RB is trucking down and adjective everything: o line, Rodgers' accuracy, etc.

Funny. Bert rarely had a game changing WR...and his offenses NEVER looked this shitty.

This funk is ENTIRELY on Rodgers IMO. Big Ben is hobbling around on 1/2 a leg and can still throw for a ton of yardage. Brady has another guy go down every week...yet is still making plays. If Rodgers is the elite QB he is supposed to be, he has to stop playing like a pussy and start making his own adjustments.

[Joemailman]

Some perspective...

Pete Carroll, who has taken his team to the last 2 Super Bowls, is 4-5.

John Harbaugh, who won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago is 2-7.

I don't think those guys have forgotten how to coach, and I don't think MM has either. The big question is my opinion is whether MM tried to fix something that wasn't broken with the shakeup of the offensive coaching staff.

[pbmax]

Funny. Bert rarely had a game changing WR...and his offenses NEVER looked this shitty.

This funk is ENTIRELY on Rodgers IMO. Big Ben is hobbling around on 1/2 a leg and can still throw for a ton of yardage. Brady has another guy go down every week...yet is still making plays. If Rodgers is the elite QB he is supposed to be, he has to stop playing like a pussy and start making his own adjustments.

Mike Sherman used to have to beg his players to care more to break out of funks. Favre's offense in Sherman's era often went into passing funks. He didn't have much besides Driver. They were .500 a lot in the middle of the season.

[pbmax]

Some perspective...

Pete Carroll, who has taken his team to the last 2 Super Bowls, is 4-5.

John Harbaugh, who won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago is 2-7.

I don't think those guys have forgotten how to coach, and I don't think MM has either. The big question is my opinion is whether MM tried to fix something that wasn't broken with the shakeup of the offensive coaching staff.

That's a good point.

We should be enjoying Pete's pain much, much more.

[Patler]

Patler...is that your current feeling.......that our coaching staff is weak ? Just curious if that's where you are at.

I have always thought there were weak spots in the staff, as well as strengths. That hasn't changed.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I am starting to think that having the base offense and then the Rodgers version of the offense isn't helping right now. Normally, with a full complement of weapons, the adjustments the QB and WR do help flummox defenses who have adjusted to what they see on tape.

But now I think it helps to muddy the picture.

I have one example. Many have mentioned the Tackles tacking deep sets in pass pro in an effort to give Rodgers room to work and scramble. But those tackles are getting beat and when that happens off a deep set, they are immediately in the vicinity of the QB. Several times we have seen Rodgers try to escape right or left but there are two bodies there blocking the way.

One of the Rodgers offense adjustments is to leave a man unblocked (think Atlanta playoff game or the much more recent free rusher up the middle). Often that is planned and Rodgers is inviting a pass rush to pull one more guy out of coverage. To keep upright, Rodgers will roll out and move away from pressure. But if the Tackles are set deep and getting beat, then his escape routes are jammed.

Trying to fix this offense might be like undoing a knot.

pb, is it possible teams adjust their pass blocking sets depending on the opposition? I've watched the Bengels and the Cardinals games this last week and they take deep sets as well. But they were playing minimal blitz teams with good front fours. The Panthers and Lions took shallow sets with Olinemen close together. Maybe they know Dom can't get pressure with the front four only and they know his blitzing patterns. After all, Claymaker is in the middle now.

[MadScientist]

Some perspective...

Pete Carroll, who has taken his team to the last 2 Super Bowls, is 4-5.

John Harbaugh, who won the Super Bowl just 3 years ago is 2-7.

I don't think those guys have forgotten how to coach, and I don't think MM has either. The big question is my opinion is whether MM tried to fix something that wasn't broken with the shakeup of the offensive coaching staff.

More like MM broke something in the attempt to fix something else that was broken (defense, ST, overall game management).

The offense is clearly broken. When you can't score at home against one of the worst defenses in the league, you have serious problems. AR is missing receiver more than we've ever seen them. Receiver are making bad drops. Blitzing Rodgers used to be suicide for defenses, now it's the Packers who are getting killed. No doubt Jordy would have helped a lot, but there's more than just the loss of Jordy going on.

[mraynrand]

IT's pretty simple. DBs are all over the WRs and the line is letting pressure in right off the snap. The line can't run block and Lacy is hobbled and fat. Now Rodgers is more skittish and looking for the pressure and tossing a lot of crap. It's a combinatorial, full group-effort tire fire.

[pbmax]

pb, is it possible teams adjust their pass blocking sets depending on the opposition? I've watched the Bengels and the Cardinals games this last week and they take deep sets as well. But they were playing minimal blitz teams with good front fours. The Panthers and Lions took shallow sets with Olinemen close together. Maybe they know Dom can't get pressure with the front four only and they know his blitzing patterns. After all, Claymaker is in the middle now.

Its possible they adjust for specific teams, but I would think those adjustments would be smaller and done by individual players to adjust for the strength of the opponent they expect to see across the LOS.

System wide adjustments, deep or short sets, would seem to be play specific. For instance, options teams are going to set short because if the QB chooses to run rather than pass, they need to be close to a defender to block. You don't want a free defender except the option target defender.

To your point, however, teams might find that either certain plays with short sets OR short sets in particular are a good antidote to the Packers pressure. I think San Diego schemed that way all game. The longer stuff came later as they grew more confident.

[PA Pack Fan]

Funny. Bert rarely had a game changing WR...and his offenses NEVER looked this shitty.

This funk is ENTIRELY on Rodgers IMO. Big Ben is hobbling around on 1/2 a leg and can still throw for a ton of yardage. Brady has another guy go down every week...yet is still making plays. If Rodgers is the elite QB he is supposed to be, he has to stop playing like a pussy and start making his own adjustments.

I agree 100%.

Rodgers plays better and we stop finding things wrong with the Packers.

[Smidgeon]

We're seeing a one dimensional team without a game changing WR. No RB is trickling down and affecting everything: o line, Rodgers' accuracy, etc.

Darn mobile autocorrect.

[Fritz]

IT's pretty simple. DBs are all over the WRs and the line is letting pressure in right off the snap. The line can't run block and Lacy is hobbled and fat. Now Rodgers is more skittish and looking for the pressure and tossing a lot of crap. It's a combinatorial, full group-effort tire fire.



That's about it in a nutshell.

I just wish I thought MM knew how to fix it. Right now, he doesn't seem to have a handle on this. At all.

And to think this is basically the same team, sans Jordy, Bostick, Brad Jones and Hawk, and Tramontana and House that where within a whisker of the SB last year. and I don't think many people would even want Hawk, Jones, Bostick or Tramontana back.