Broken-But-Not-Dead-Yet

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Too much doom and gloom around here! Come on u fuckers and fuckees, we are heading into the stretch run. Time to kick some ass.

Lions on deck, in their house, but who da fuck cares! We got this.

Who's with me!

(Poor animal house copy)

[denverYooper]

I'll come around.

I still hate Thursday games though. Yuck.

[yetisnowman]

Too much doom and gloom around here! Come on u fuckers and fuckees, we are heading into the stretch run. Time to kick some ass.

Lions on deck, in their house, but who da fuck cares! We got this.

Who's with me!

(Poor animal house copy)

As much of a trainwreck as the last 5 weeks have been, our goals are still attainable. Romo getting re-injured and Oakland coming back to earth a little bit, those looked potential losses two weeks ago. Now very winnable. I'm worried about Thursday quite a bit. The Lions are much better than their record, and their defense and offense are playing as well as they have all year especially at home. And even with 7 losses they can't consider themselves out of it in the NFC. Not a great matchup. 10-6 gets us in the playoffs I believe and might be enough for the division. That seems realistic.

[Patler]

This is what sports are all about. For any who have been involved in sports for a while, I'm sure you can look back at teams you were with that were talented, but under performed. Sometimes that is the death knell for the season, sometimes it is only a point of interest for a season that rights itself before the end.

I don't care that they lost to the Lions. I don't care that they lost to the Bears. I don't care that they have lost two in a row at Lambeau in which they were strong favorites.

I do care that they are 7-4 and could still finish the season at 12-4. Will they? Probably not, but 11-5 or 10-6 are certainly attainable.

At this point they have two goals, figure out/fix what is wrong with their passing game and make the playoffs. If they accomplish both, they will be playing well in December. Successful playoff teams are not always the ones who cruise through a season without a rough spot. They often are the teams who are playing their best football in December. The Packers very well can be a team that plays its best football in December because ST and Defense are improved from last year, and the defense can be decent enough at times. The running game seems to be finding its way. The one aspect of the team that I think this staff, both players and coaches, can fix on the fly is the passing game; and that is the area needing repair.

They may or may not do it. I make no predictions. However, this is shaping up like a very interesting end to the season.

[Joemailman]

I think the key right now is whether Adams can pick himself off the mat, or whether his season will continue to be a bust. Lacy is back to being Lacy, but they still need someone to take some pressure off Cobb. If Adams can be some semblance of the player we expected, this could still be a very interesting season.

[mraynrand]

I don't care that they lost to the Bears.

No Packer fan should ever write, utter, or even think this. This is the worst thing you've ever written. It hurt me to quote it.

[denverYooper]

I think the key right now is whether Adams can pick himself off the mat, or whether his season will continue to be a bust. Lacy is back to being Lacy, but they still need someone to take some pressure off Cobb. If Adams can be some semblance of the player we expected, this could still be a very interesting season.

I thought bevaux had a great take in another thread, that they just needed to accelerate Adams's responsibilities in the offense out of need. I thought M3's comments about some players needing to stop worrying about how they run their routes, etc and just play ball were most specifically pointed to Adams. I have the narrative in my head at this point that most of his issues stem from being force fed Jordy's role and responsibilities and that's why the Packers keep throwing him the ball.

Adams will probably improve but I have to wonder if they will scale that back or change up the offense soon to mitigate his issues. I don't know yet but the time has got to be drawing close on a decision.

Of course Monty and Abbredaris coming back could make everything moot. If they can get a #3/4 on the field to present some new matchup problems, then it might not matter.

[denverYooper]

Should they pull together for a playoff run, I think the DL could be a factor in the playoffs. Both Raji and Daniels are going to want to make a statement to get paid, Peppers might only have 1 or 2 shots left, and Datone Jones has been coming on.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Well, that's a start, BUT I CAN'T HEAR YOU.......

[hoosier]

Well, that's a start, BUT I CAN'T HEAR YOU.......

Ok, here goes....This season is down the toilet, they are dead in the water and just circling the drain. But that is not the worst of it. If you're not in ascension then you are by definition in decline, and that is what the Packers are today. They may be the youngest team in the league but they are already dead. Nelson will be 30 and coming off a major knee injury, so they need to draft his replacement and groom him for a couple of years. Peppers is all but finished, and past history suggests it will take TT about four years to find his replacement. The offensive line is incapable of staying healthy for an entire season. The writing is on the wall with Lacy, whose body and running style will cause him to break down early. Adams would rather play video games than work on improving his questionable hands and route running.

[Patler]

I don't care that they lost to the Bears.No Packer fan should ever write, utter, or even think this. This is the worst thing you've ever written. It hurt me to quote it.

Perhaps you are correct. Let me put this a different way:

I don't care that the Bears kicked their ass in Lambeau.
(Now, at least my previous statement won't be the worst thing I have ever written! :-))

[Patler]

Ok, here goes....This season is down the toilet, they are dead in the water and just circling the drain. But that is not the worst of it. If you're not in ascension then you are by definition in decline, and that is what the Packers are today. They may be the youngest team in the league but they are already dead. Nelson will be 30 and coming off a major knee injury, so they need to draft his replacement and groom him for a couple of years. Peppers is all but finished, and past history suggests it will take TT about four years to find his replacement. The offensive line is incapable of staying healthy for an entire season. The writing is on the wall with Lacy, whose body and running style will cause him to break down early. Adams would rather play video games than work on improving his questionable hands and route running.

That is certainly a possibility. I wrote in another thread that what we are seeing could be the start of a directional change, a precursor to a significant roster upheaval the next several years. I have long feared that Lacy could be John Brockington II, a guy who will have a 3-5 year career, then disappear.

But, I think it is just as likely that the train got derailed for some reason, and it can be back on track next year if not yet this year.

Time will tell.

[Maxie the Taxi]

That is certainly a possibility. I wrote in another thread that what we are seeing could be the start of a directional change, a precursor to a significant roster upheaval the next several years. I have long feared that Lacy could be John Brockington II, a guy who will have a 3-5 year career, then disappear.

But, I think it is just as likely that the train got derailed for some reason, and it can be back on track next year if not yet this year.

Time will tell.

For what it's worth, a glaring shortcoming of this team is and has been at TE and I think the Packers know it. The draft this year was weak in TE talent. I heard rumors of TT looking at the FA market (Gonzalez? Graham?) but, of course, nothing happened.

Patler, do you remember earlier this year when the Packers tried out several basketball players who seemed in the Gronk mold (at least physically) but none of the tryouts panned out? That right there was a signal to me that the Packers knew a significant weakness existed at TE. I can't remember if Nelson was healthy at the time of the tryouts.

[Patler]

For what it's worth, a glaring shortcoming of this team is and has been at TE and I think the Packers know it. The draft this year was weak in TE talent. I heard rumors of TT looking at the FA market (Gonzalez? Graham?) but, of course, nothing happened.

Patler, do you remember earlier this year when the Packers tried out several basketball players who seemed in the Gronk mold (at least physically) but none of the tryouts panned out? That right there was a signal to me that the Packers knew a significant weakness existed at TE. I can't remember if Nelson was healthy at the time of the tryouts.

I agree about the TEs, and I do recall the basketball player tryouts. The guy on their practice squad didn't play in college, but was very good in HS as a basketball player. Needs weight and strength, but was good enough for the Broncos to claim him from GB at the final cutdown, when the Packers had told him they would offer a PS contract. When Denver ran into roster problems and released him a month later, the Packers brought him right back.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/09/08/could-mitchell-henry-one-who-got-away/71901976/

The Packers know what they need. They've drafted a TE each of the last two years, and have brought in a bunch of prospects. Sooner or later they will find one.

[beveaux1]

I'm in the camp that this team has severely underperformed this year based on their level of talent. As Patler pointed out, the defense and special teams are better than last year, the running game is beginning to round into shape. I think they have treated at least 2 of their losses as a kind of training camp to improve their passing game. My feeling is that if they decide to use their superior personnel to run the ball, use their defense and special teams to win the field position battle, they will win at least 10 games and go into the playoffs with some momentum. If they have success running the ball against nickel defenses and decide to force their undermanned passing game, we'll have trouble winning more than 9. I expect every game to be close, but I have confidence in this coaching staff. I hope it isn't misplaced.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree about the TEs, and I do recall the basketball player tryouts. The guy on their practice squad didn't play in college, but was very good in HS as a basketball player. Needs weight and strength, but was good enough for the Broncos to claim him from GB at the final cutdown, when the Packers had told him they would offer a PS contract. When Denver ran into roster problems and released him a month later, the Packers brought him right back.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2015/09/08/could-mitchell-henry-one-who-got-away/71901976/

The Packers know what they need. They've drafted a TE each of the last two years, and have brought in a bunch of prospects. Sooner or later they will find one.

I really don't have a lot of confidence that they'll find one in the draft. It doesn't seem to be a high enough priority to go in 1st or 2nd round or to trade up. And despite his drafting of TE's, TT has a poor record picking a difference-maker at that position, with possible exception of Finley. FA or trade is what we need to do IMO.

[denverYooper]

In other news, the Packers initial 6 game surge might get them in to the playoffs. The NFC outside of Carolina and Arizona is a crapshoot right now. They probably only need 2 more wins to get in.

Not that I recommend or endorse that path.

I think they finish at least 10-6. 2 of their losses they could have won on the last play (coin flip games) and 1 loss they made a serious run at coming back. Only the Denver game was a total disaster.

[pbmax]

The O line has picked up the pass pro. Barclay somehow has gone back to being servicable after being a welcome mat, so they are protected from Bulaga's Packer ankle.

Lacy seems to have recovered and he is not worn out as he got a lot of rest in the second half last week.

The defense has held together despite injuries, and has gained some valuable reps (Randall, Rollins, Palmer, Ryan) for the youngsters. Jones is on fire and Raji and Daniels have sustained. Guion doesn't seem to be an end, but holy cow Pennel does. Peppers will deliver in a big moment. In the most underreported story of the last two years, Matthews seems willing and able to be an ILB. He should win a Wilkerson for that alone. Seriously, he is wealthy and famous, he could have thrown a diva. But he instead just glared for awhile so everyone knew he wasn't happy, and played lights out.

Despite some setbacks, there is less of a Slocum feel on ST. Crosby is money. Masthay has stopped bleeding even if will need a leg transplant in February. Coverage is mostly solid with a couple of gaffes that will serve as in season reminders that even this version can still suck under new coaching.

Someone will remember how to throw and catch a ball. Even the 49ers got Bono to work. M3 got Aaron Brooks. So anything is possible.

[Carolina_Packer]

I really don't have a lot of confidence that they'll find one in the draft. It doesn't seem to be a high enough priority to go in 1st or 2nd round or to trade up. And despite his drafting of TE's, TT has a poor record picking a difference-maker at that position, with possible exception of Finley. FA or trade is what we need to do IMO.

Per WalterFootball.com, Hunter Henry from Arkansas is the only TE that grades out as a round 1. I'm always a BAP guy, so while drafting is always somewhat about need, the value has to match where the player is drafted. If that happens to grade out as a player of true need, like TE, even better.

[Joemailman]

The O line has picked up the pass pro. Barclay somehow has gone back to being servicable after being a welcome mat, so they are protected from Bulaga's Packer ankle.

Lacy seems to have recovered and he is not worn out as he got a lot of rest in the second half last week.

The defense has held together despite injuries, and has gained some valuable reps (Randall, Rollins, Palmer, Ryan) for the youngsters. Jones is on fire and Raji and Daniels have sustained. Guion doesn't seem to be an end, but holy cow Pennel does. Peppers will deliver in a big moment. In the most underreported story of the last two years, Matthews seems willing and able to be an ILB. He should win a Wilkerson for that alone. Seriously, he is wealthy and famous, he could have thrown a diva. But he instead just glared for awhile so everyone knew he wasn't happy, and played lights out.

Despite some setbacks, there is less of a Slocum feel on ST. Crosby is money. Masthay has stopped bleeding even if will need a leg transplant in February. Coverage is mostly solid with a couple of gaffes that will serve as in season reminders that even this version can still suck under new coaching.

Someone will remember how to throw and catch a ball. Even the 49ers got Bono to work. M3 got Aaron Brooks. So anything is possible.

Who would have thought back in August we'd be saying the Packers would be in good shape in December if they could just get the passing game going?

[Fritz]

Who would have thought back in August we'd be saying the Packers would be in good shape in December if they could just get the passing game going?


How true that is. But that's why you watch; you really never can quite tell. You may be right 80% of the time, but they'll surprise you the other 20%.

I am going to Ford Field to see the game Thursday. I am reminded of the last time I went, which was in 2010. It was, like this time, fairly late in the season. The Packer defense was tough (though the Lion offense, it must be said, sucked), the ST was pretty okay, but the offense sputtered. Then, I think in the second quarter, the Lions knocked Rodgers out of the game. Matt Flynn took over, and at one point got the Pack inside the ten yard line - but then he threw a pick.

The Lions won, 10-6, I believe. As my friend and I walked out, the Lions' fans were all, all over us. That was the end of the Packers, the Lions were going to get into the playoffs, and Packers were dust. And my friend and I walked to the parking lot talking about how the Packers would surely then lose to the Patriots the following week, and that we knew, we knew, the season was over.

But you all know what happened.

And I'm not saying that's going to happen again. I'm saying that it doesn't look good, but we don't know yet for sure. This team is really frustrating, but it does not have the feel of that 2011 team. As good as that offense was, I think there was a sense here on Rats that the defense was going to be the downfall of that team. It seemed inevitable, somehow. (Though if I recall, it was the offense against the Giants that got slowed down to nothing.)

I think the defense this year is playing pretty well, and my god, if the offense could ever stop with the three-and-outs, think how much better the defense might be.

As I watched the Bears' game unfold, I could only shake my head - especially, after having four chances at the end of the game with first and goal at the eight yard line. But I have to say I blame the wide receivers. I believe A. Rodgers is getting skittish. His nightmare is what happened on the pick - he throws it where the receiver is supposed to be, but the receiver isn't there.

Jones is showing why two teams cut him. Cobb is clearly not a number one receiver. He can't seem to get open much. And Davante Adams has been so, so disappointing. What the fuck with all the drops? And it was the first I'd heard, as Chris Collingsworth reported during the game, that some of the younger players (must be Adams, right?) were more interested in their video games than game tape and preparation. I thought the guy was more mature than that. He seemed to admit in a JSO article that those remarks were aimed at him, though he said he thought he was just fine and dandy. But what a disappointment he's been this year.

And Richard Rodgers, too. Nobody was going to confuse him with Usain Bolt, but the guy reminds me of Bubba Franks - at the end of his career. Slow as molasses, and he drops like a sack of flour the minute a 180 pound defensive back hits him.

Ty Montgomery seems like he'll be out at least one or two more games, and Quarless is no savior. Man, if ever it looked like one position group could be blamed, this is it. the receivers and TE's.

The offensive line had some gaffes, sure, against the Bears, but they were, I thought, pretty good overall. The defense, the running game, the ST - all good enough. But the passing game - yikes. Why can't they get open, and why can't they catch the damn ball???

[mraynrand]

In the most underreported story of the last two years, Matthews seems willing and able to be an ILB. He should win a Wilkerson for that alone. Seriously, he is wealthy and famous, he could have thrown a diva. But he instead just glared for awhile so everyone knew he wasn't happy, and played lights out.

I almost totally agree with this. We were talking about this during the Bears game and I said that the one thing that is keeping him from being an all-pro kinda ILB is the pass coverage. My view is that he doesn't have the knack for where to go and who to cover -yet. And wouldn'tcha know it on the very next play, he got suckered outside and let the RB go free inside. Maybe it's just a matter of time, because he certainly made that critical INT in the first game. Maybe I'm asking too much too soon, or just looking at him with narrow Packer goggles. The great ILBs also miss a few I guess.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I almost totally agree with this. We were talking about this during the Bears game and I said that the one thing that is keeping him from being an all-pro kinda ILB is the pass coverage. My view is that he doesn't have the knack for where to go and who to cover -yet. And wouldn'tcha know it on the very next play, he got suckered outside and let the RB go free inside. Maybe it's just a matter of time, because he certainly made that critical INT in the first game. Maybe I'm asking too much too soon, or just looking at him with narrow Packer goggles. The great ILBs also miss a few I guess.

I'd rather have sacks.

[Carolina_Packer]

How true that is. But that's why you watch; you really never can quite tell. You may be right 80% of the time, but they'll surprise you the other 20%.

I am going to Ford Field to see the game Thursday. I am reminded of the last time I went, which was in 2010. It was, like this time, fairly late in the season. The Packer defense was tough (though the Lion offense, it must be said, sucked), the ST was pretty okay, but the offense sputtered. Then, I think in the second quarter, the Lions knocked Rodgers out of the game. Matt Flynn took over, and at one point got the Pack inside the ten yard line - but then he threw a pick.

The Lions won, 10-6, I believe. As my friend and I walked out, the Lions' fans were all, all over us. That was the end of the Packers, the Lions were going to get into the playoffs, and Packers were dust. And my friend and I walked to the parking lot talking about how the Packers would surely then lose to the Patriots the following week, and that we knew, we knew, the season was over.

But you all know what happened.

And I'm not saying that's going to happen again. I'm saying that it doesn't look good, but we don't know yet for sure. This team is really frustrating, but it does not have the feel of that 2011 team. As good as that offense was, I think there was a sense here on Rats that the defense was going to be the downfall of that team. It seemed inevitable, somehow. (Though if I recall, it was the offense against the Giants that got slowed down to nothing.)

I think the defense this year is playing pretty well, and my god, if the offense could ever stop with the three-and-outs, think how much better the defense might be.

As I watched the Bears' game unfold, I could only shake my head - especially, after having four chances at the end of the game with first and goal at the eight yard line. But I have to say I blame the wide receivers. I believe A. Rodgers is getting skittish. His nightmare is what happened on the pick - he throws it where the receiver is supposed to be, but the receiver isn't there.

Jones is showing why two teams cut him. Cobb is clearly not a number one receiver. He can't seem to get open much. And Davante Adams has been so, so disappointing. What the fuck with all the drops? And it was the first I'd heard, as Chris Collingsworth reported during the game, that some of the younger players (must be Adams, right?) were more interested in their video games than game tape and preparation. I thought the guy was more mature than that. He seemed to admit in a JSO article that those remarks were aimed at him, though he said he thought he was just fine and dandy. But what a disappointment he's been this year.

And Richard Rodgers, too. Nobody was going to confuse him with Usain Bolt, but the guy reminds me of Bubba Franks - at the end of his career. Slow as molasses, and he drops like a sack of flour the minute a 180 pound defensive back hits him.

Ty Montgomery seems like he'll be out at least one or two more games, and Quarless is no savior. Man, if ever it looked like one position group could be blamed, this is it. the receivers and TE's.

The offensive line had some gaffes, sure, against the Bears, but they were, I thought, pretty good overall. The defense, the running game, the ST - all good enough. But the passing game - yikes. Why can't they get open, and why can't they catch the damn ball???

Injuries will challenge depth on the best of receiving corps, but as it's turning out Jordy's injury is causing a chain reaction to the production that would normally be seen from the other receivers. They are all more open when the defense is forced to commit a safety over the top. Also, the way the team is built really commits them to relying on first and second year guys for depth, which as it's turning out can be a mixed bag. We can all agree that there are too many injuries and that's tough. The litany of injuries just sucks, including receivers. I'm not saying they'd be awesome all their guys, save for Jordy's pre-season injury, but I would like to see a full, injury-free season of Cobb (AC Joint out of camp), Adams (ankle for several weeks), Montgomery (ankle for several weeks), Quarless (IR-DTR), Abbrederis (this kid is snake-bitten, but a promising route runner). I wish they would open up opportunities for Janis down the field to try and take the top off the defense and at least threaten to use him, and Jones is just going to be week to week good and possibly Houdini. That's not just Jordy going down for the season. That's a lot to overcome. This is probably worst-case scenario for the receiving corps. Hypothetically, if all those guys, aside from Jordy, had been able to stay healthy and be in a solid rotation and develop a rhythm, they might not have the passing game woes they are experiencing. As for TE, I still think TT and company put too much faith in Richard Rodgers, but chain reaction-wise, I guess Quarless going down might have put too much pressure on Rodgers to be the #1 option and he's just a second year guy. Draft and develop giveth and draft and develop taketh away. Injuries suck!

[Fritz]

Injuries will challenge depth on the best of receiving corps, but as it's turning out Jordy's injury is causing a chain reaction to the production that would normally be seen from the other receivers. They are all more open when the defense is forced to commit a safety over the top. Also, the way the team is built really commits them to relying on first and second year guys for depth, which as it's turning out can be a mixed bag. We can all agree that there are too many injuries and that's tough. The litany of injuries just sucks, including receivers. I'm not saying they'd be awesome all their guys, save for Jordy's pre-season injury, but I would like to see a full, injury-free season of Cobb (AC Joint out of camp), Adams (ankle for several weeks), Montgomery (ankle for several weeks), Quarless (IR-DTR), Abbrederis (this kid is snake-bitten, but a promising route runner). I wish they would open up opportunities for Janis down the field to try and take the top off the defense and at least threaten to use him, and Jones is just going to be week to week good and possibly Houdini. That's not just Jordy going down for the season. That's a lot to overcome. This is probably worst-case scenario for the receiving corps. Hypothetically, if all those guys, aside from Jordy, had been able to stay healthy and be in a solid rotation and develop a rhythm, they might not have the passing game woes they are experiencing. As for TE, I still think TT and company put too much faith in Richard Rodgers, but chain reaction-wise, I guess Quarless going down might have put too much pressure on Rodgers to be the #1 option and he's just a second year guy. Draft and develop giveth and draft and develop taketh away. Injuries suck!


Good post. You're right: had Adams and Montgomery not had those bad ankle sprains, Nelson's injury would've been less noticeable, though it would still have been an issue.

But I'm disappointed in Adams's shitty hands and what sounds like, if Arod is to be believed, a lack of preparation. All we heard about before was what a professional, dedicated kid Adams was. But no, apparently.

But now when I watch DickRod play, and I think that he was the same third round draft pick as Finley was, I see a guy who seems to have been way overdrafted. He's slow, slow, slow, and gets knocked down so easily that my mom could tackle him. And he's not even a good blocker, apparently. So what the heck?

Now it looks like Montgomery's going to be out possibly for the year. That's some serious bad news. He had a knack for getting open short - more than you can say about any other Packer receiver at this point.

Crazy shit, man. Crazy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Now it looks like Montgomery's going to be out possibly for the year. That's some serious bad news.
If Abby can get and stay healthy, they'll be OK.

:lol::lol::eyes:

Sorry, sometimes I really crack myself up. Was sounding like "Tausch"


We ain't broke, but we're badly bent


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSGGyJVp5fI

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'd rather have sacks.

"Balls, balls!" cried the queen
"If I had two I'd be the king."


ZING!

[Fritz]

"Balls, balls!" cried the queen
"If I had two I'd be the king."


ZING!

It's still a little early to be reduced to jokering around. It ain't over yet. We'll just see Abby rise up from the injured rib pile and be a star on Thursday.

Or something. I'm going to the game, so I gotta hope for something good.

[hoosier]

Speaking of the injured rib pile, did anyone see that the official who had the inadvertent whistle in the NE-Buffalo game was the same one who got run over and broke nine ribs earlier this season? I'm amazed he came back at all but his skittishness is probably a good indicator that he should have stayed home or tried out for the Packers.

[mraynrand]

"Balls, balls!" cried the queen
"If I had two I'd be the king."


ZING!

It's one sack and two balls, Harlan. You must be out of practice.

[pbmax]

Speaking of the injured rib pile, did anyone see that the official who had the inadvertent whistle in the NE-Buffalo game was the same one who got run over and broke nine ribs earlier this season? I'm amazed he came back at all but his skittishness is probably a good indicator that he should have stayed home or tried out for the Packers.

Yeah, he overreacted a tad. He wasn't even in danger (ref saw Rex well before they would have made contact and the play was not near him on the sideline) but was obviously eager to make the call.