Who is the backup to the backup at center?

[Patler]

Center JC Tretter was added to the injury list as questionable with an ankle injury after being limited in practice. Corey Linsley (ankle), the Packers' other center, also is questionable, as are right tackle Bryan Bulaga (ankle) and guard T.J. Lang (shoulder).

Barclay?
They don't even have a center on PS.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The long snapper?

[pbmax]

Lang has done it but he is questionable. But it would be Lang then Sitton.

[Rutnstrut]

I'm thinking/hoping Linsley will be back, he's a tough kid so I hope he can gut it out.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was serious about the long snapper. But I suppose he would just be the emergency in-game option. Not enough bulk, but he could execute the plays. I imagine he gets some work there. He is in football shape and has to be able to block and tackle.

[pbmax]

I was serious about the long snapper. But I suppose he would just be the emergency in-game option. Not enough bulk, but he could execute the plays. I imagine he gets some work there. He is in football shape and has to be able to block and tackle.

He is 6' 1" and 255. He isn't going to play center unless they literally run out of lineman and one of the D lineman can't help.

[Rutnstrut]

I was serious about the long snapper. But I suppose he would just be the emergency in-game option. Not enough bulk, but he could execute the plays. I imagine he gets some work there. He is in football shape and has to be able to block and tackle.

They would move one of the other O-lineman there before the long snapper. The LS usually isn't nearly bulky enough to anchor the line, he would get Rodgers killed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He is 6' 1" and 255. He isn't going to play center unless they literally run out of lineman and one of the D lineman can't help.

255 is big enough to play in a pinch. He knows how to reliably snap and block. Offense can run out of shotgun and pistol to allow a little more protection - obiously he executes that snap very well. I bet he is the choice after the first backup.

[Rutnstrut]

He is 6' 1" and 255. He isn't going to play center unless they literally run out of lineman and one of the D lineman can't help.

Lacey would be a better option;)

[Rutnstrut]

255 is big enough to play in a pinch. He knows how to reliably snap and block. Offense can run out of shotgun and pistol to allow a little more protection - obiously he executes that snap very well. I bet he is the choice after the first backup.

I bet he isn't, Lang is the first "emergency center".

[mraynrand]

He is 6' 1" and 255. He isn't going to play center unless they literally run out of lineman and one of the D lineman can't help.

show me whatcha got whatcha got Raji!

[mraynrand]

255 is big enough to play in a pinch.

Ask around and see which linemen like to get pinched in their groin. That's your backup backup. Report back when you have the results Harlan.

[pbmax]

show me whatcha got whatcha got Raji!

Here is today's brain teaser:

Can a former first round pick get a fuckdoggle if he is playing on the other side of the ball for the 4th time in his professional life?


*Raji has played FB a couple of time.

[Harlan Huckleby]

show me whatcha got whatcha got Raji!

All you have to do is lift the ball up behind your own balls while leaning forward, rotate ball 90 degrees, then square-up and block. Not a difficult skill to master, big fella.

I agree that if they have some 300 pound guards available with snap experience, that is preferable. But I do not think it is crazy to use a 255 pound long snapper, who is great at snapping and trained at blocking, to get through a game.

[hoosier]

That win against Minnesota is going to cost the Packers a place in the top half of the draft order.

[Rutnstrut]

All you have to do is lift the ball up behind your own balls while leaning forward, rotate ball 90 degrees, then square-up and block. Not a difficult skill to master, big fella.

I agree that if they have some 300 pound guards available with snap experience, that is preferable. But I do not think it is crazy to use a 255 pound long snapper, who is great at snapping and trained at blocking, to get through a game.

There's a reason you have NEVER seen him at center in practice or even garbage time in a preseason game. They won't play the LS at center, there are plenty of fat guys to go through first.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There's a reason you have NEVER seen him at center in practice or even garbage time in a preseason game. They won't play the LS at center, there are plenty of fat guys to go through first.


There's a reason you have NEVER seen an untrained fat guy at center in practice or even garbage time in a preseason game. They won't play untrained fat guy at center, there is a LS trained at snapping and blocking from center position to use first.

Snapping - then blocking - is not an easy skill to master. Nothing would kill offense quicker than snapper learning on-the-job. Undersized center can be compensated for.

[pbmax]

There's a reason you have NEVER seen an untrained fat guy at center in practice or even garbage time in a preseason game. They won't play untrained fat guy at center, there is a LS trained at snapping and blocking from center position to use first.

Snapping - then blocking - is not an easy skill to master.

Even less of a skill is F=M*A

[Rutnstrut]

There's a reason you have NEVER seen an untrained fat guy at center in practice or even garbage time in a preseason game. They won't play untrained fat guy at center, there is a LS trained at snapping and blocking from center position to use first.

Snapping - then blocking - is not an easy skill to master.

I know, I played center from middle school through college. Granted far from being anything even close to a pro, but I do know a little bit about the position. Long snapper and center are not the same position regardless of their similarity.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Even less of a skill is F=M*A

Well, choose your poison. I'd rather have a reliable snap. I'd rather help the 255 pound guy with a FB or guard.

Centers very often are combo blocking with guard anyway. Kuuuuuhn time!

BTW, I am chairman of the Dump Kuhn Vigilante Committee, but his blocking this year has been outstanding.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I know, I played center from middle school through college.

http://a.fn.fncdn.com/images/getty/comp/rdFzzv.png

Ya, ya, we all have our stories.

Did I ever tell you how I was recruited by Otto Graham to play offensive line in college? Virtually a true story, buddy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Long snapper and center are not the same position regardless of their similarity.

no kidding.

But mastering the snapping-blocking part is a good start.

[Joemailman]

.

I agree that if they have some 300 pound guards available with snap experience, that is preferable. But I do not think it is crazy to use a 255 pound long snapper, who is great at snapping and trained at blocking, to get through a game.

Except he'd get killed and then you wouldn't have a long snapper.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Except he'd get killed and then you wouldn't have a long snapper.

Why isn't long snapper "killed" on punts?

255 is a disadvantage, but its not like 255 pounders - and smaller - aren't called-on to block defensive linemen. See 240 pound fullbacks.

[Fritz]

Whoa, let's backup a minute.

[mraynrand]

Here is today's brain teaser:

Can a former first round pick get a fuckdoggle if he is playing on the other side of the ball for the 4th time in his professional life?


*Raji has played FB a couple of time.

If a d-lineman comes in and plays center in a win - that's a guaranteed fuckdoggle

[Joemailman]

Why isn't long snapper "killed" on punts?

255 is a disadvantage, but its not like 255 pounders - and smaller - aren't called-on to block defensive linemen. See 240 pound fullbacks.

They changed the rules to protect long snappers. Also, a long snapper might snap 10 times a game. A Center about 70.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They changed the rules to protect long snappers. Also, a long snapper might snap 10 times a game. A Center about 70.

We're talking about the backup to the backup. We're choosing between bad options in the middle of a game, not 70 snaps. You got Raji or (at best) Josh Walker with his chubby hands between his legs. I live with the long snapper up front. Shotgun or pistol might be relatively effective.

[Patler]

Why isn't long snapper "killed" on punts?


Why? Because you can't line up over the longsnapper. He is "protected".


I. NFL Rule 7, Section 2, Article 2

Article 2 During a punt, field-goal attempt, or a Kick Try, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage at the snap, must have his entire body outside the snapper’s shoulder pads.

Snappers don't learn to block anymore.

[mraynrand]

We're talking about the backup to the backup. We're choosing between bad options in the middle of a game. You got Raji or (at best) Josh Walker with his chubby hands between his legs. I live with the long snapper up front.

I'm really warming up to the long snapper idea. How about this: have him long snap it to Rodgers 15 yards back, like a normal punt. Now the pass rush takes 2-3 seconds to get to Rodgers instead of 0.5 seconds. Even though Rodgers has to throw 10 more yards every pass play, the increased time in the pocket results in an overall huge advantage. Plus Rodgers can now punt if he gets frightened again.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Plus Rodgers can now punt if he gets frightened again.

Quick kick, quick kick.

[mraynrand]

Why? Because you can't line up over the longsnapper. He is "protected".



Snappers don't learn to block anymore.


Come, come, the long snapper played football back before he became a specialty freak. He can remember how to block. He certainly still remembers how to tackle - he tackles from time to time on coverage duties.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Snappers don't learn to block anymore.

They get 1-yard protection, but the snapper still blocks.

Jimminy Crickets!

[Rutnstrut]

I'm really warming up to the long snapper idea. How about this: have him long snap it to Rodgers 15 yards back, like a normal punt. Now the pass rush takes 2-3 seconds to get to Rodgers instead of 0.5 seconds. Even though Rodgers has to throw 10 more yards every pass play, the increased time in the pocket results in an overall huge advantage. Plus Rodgers can now punt if he gets frightened again.

Or, the long snapper could just line up ass towards the LOS and snap the ball to the WR's.

[mraynrand]

Or, the long snapper could just line up ass towards the LOS and snap the ball to the WR's.

Patler? Patler? Is this legal? I like the idea, but we don't want a penalty.

[pbmax]

They get 1-yard protection, but the snapper still blocks.

Jimminy Crickets!

On FGs and PATs, they often, quite literally, block no one anymore. Occasionally the pile spills back into them, but its a gap over, not head up. Same with punting.

Now they do tackle (a lot of LB long snappers because of this). However, if your center is tackling, things are going very wrong.

[smuggler]

I mean, he's 30+ lbs light so it'd be a huge disadvantage, but if you have to pick between a player that's never given a snap before and the LS, you'd take the LS hands down.

[Harlan Huckleby]

On FGs and PATs, they often, quite literally, block no one anymore.

Not true. Google "long snapping blocking" and you'll find many testimonials about how long snappers also have to be skilled in blocking.

http://www.specialteamservants.com/Special_Team_Servants/Blocking.html

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-1/25-Questions-and-Answers-with-49ers-Long-Snapper-Kyle-Nelson/b52f5c85-d484-4e5d-8e95-db996296cdb4

[Patler]

Come, come, the long snapper played football back before he became a specialty freak. He can remember how to block. He certainly still remembers how to tackle - he tackles from time to time on coverage duties.

a few years back, we debated on here why long snappers don't back up at another position. At the time, I looked into the backgrounds of lots of them. Many were specialists even in college, and played no other position. Some did, but many were TEs or LBs. Goode was an O-lineman in HS, but I believe only snapped in college. Clark Harris was drafted by the Packers mostly as a TE. JJ Jansen, as I recall from his days at ND, never even played HS football, but was messing around snapping in intramural football, was seen by a coach and was asked to work with the team because he showed natural ability at the long snap.

Yes, they tackle from time to time, what does that have to do with blocking?

My point was, they don't have to block like a typical O-lineman. They don't have to fire off the line, find someone and hit him. They don't have stand up, step back and pass protect. They don't typically have to deal with stunts by 300+ pounders. The don't face a 320 pound d-lineman lined up on their head or shoulder, ready to fire into them at the snap. They learn none of the typical things taught to an O-lineman. Any blocking they do (or even tackling for that matter) is considered a bonus.

[Cheesehead Craig]

They'd probably just bring in whomever the 3rd C was in training camp. Think his name was Fuckdoggle or something like that.

[Patler]

They'd probably just bring in whomever the 3rd C was in training camp. Think his name was Fuckdoggle or something like that.

Was that Bostick Fuckdoggle?

[Patler]

Garth Gerhart is on Cleveland's practice squad.

[Cleft Crusty]

Yes, they tackle from time to time, what does that have to do with blocking?

blocking and tackling, Coach Lombardi. Those are the basics of football. Oh well, I guess this is the modern era, but I sure remember learning how to block and tackle on my PS4 Madden game.

[Smidgeon]

This is my favoritest thread in a while. Quite humorous. Keep it up.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They don't typically have to deal with stunts by 300+ pounders. The don't face a 320 pound d-lineman lined up on their head or shoulder
It's a bad situation. Having a bigger guy who can't even reliably get a snap back to the QB is worse.

[Patler]

It's a bad situation. Having a bigger guy who can't even reliably get a snap back to the QB is worse.

What makes you think a long snapper can? Because he can rifle it back 15 yards to the punter, or because he can snap it 18 inches off the ground 7 yards deep. When Tretter did that last week, people were pissed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

What makes you think a long snapper can? Because he can rifle it back 15 yards to the punter

ding ding ding

I expect a long snapper can execute any sort of snap. But if nothing else he can snap to QB in shotgun or pistol.

Just as critically, he knows how to maintain balance and transition from snapper to a blocker in half a second.

[Patler]

ding ding ding

I expect a long snapper can execute any sort of snap. But if nothing else he can snap to QB in shotgun or pistol.

Just as critically, he knows how to maintain balance and transition from snapper to a blocker in half a second.

Not sure I agree with any of those conclusions, especially not the last.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Not sure I agree with any of those conclusions, especially not the last.

Watch what a long snapper has to do. They have to snap then block. Read the discussions I linked to.

You have narrowed the skills of a long snapper to an absurd degree. They can long snap to a punter but not a QB. They can't/don't block.

They are muscular, 255 pound football players who are used to contact with other large players - blocking and tackling. They are not european metrosexual specialists who only know how to pass a ball between their legs.

[Cheesehead Craig]

He would probably snap it back too hard, injuring Rodgers. Probably give him an ankle.

[mraynrand]

They are not european metrosexual specialists who only know how to pass a ball between their legs.

the voice of experience! :)

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think a snapper trying to function as a center would be a lot like a blocking TE trying to fill-in at LT. It would be a bad situation, but maybe the team could get by.

Truth is, we'd really have to talk to an NFL-level snapper to hear how well he think he would function.

To the extent this topic can be interesting, here is discussion about long snapping, but more from the perspective of why it exists as a specialist position in NFL:
http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

The average weight of an NFL LS is only 246.

That article points out that they have to be able to accurately make tough snaps to every player in in the backfield in punt formation (fake punts) so these guys are very skilled and versatile at snapping; safe bet they can perform any snap you want, probably better than a starting center.

[Harlan Huckleby]

ps. There are 4 LSs in the NFL who are also backup centers, so some guys can do it.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

Buffalo Bills Garrison Sanborn 6' 1" 240 lbs
Pittsburgh Steelers Greg Warren 6' 3" 252 lbs
Chicago Bears Patrick Mannelly 6' 5" 265 lbs
Carolina Panthers J. J. Jansen 6' 2" 245 lbs

[pbmax]

OK, I'll bite. Who was the last long snapper to log regular minutes at a different position?

[Maxie the Taxi]

OK, I'll bite. Who was the last long snapper to log regular minutes at a different position?

Per Bill Belicheck:

"You want your best holder to be the holder," Belichick said. "I think that the key thing in the NFL now is just with the opportunity of your specialist. Again, the game has evolved from when I came into the league. Most teams had kicker. Most of the punters played another position, and I would say all of the long snappers played another position, either center or linebacker or tight end or whatever it was. Then punters became pretty much specialized so every team carried a kicker and a punter. Occasionally you had a guy who could do both, but that was more the exception than the rule.

"Eventually, teams started going to just pure long snappers. Like Steve DeOssie, who came into the league as a linebacker/snapper, kind of ended as a snapper and was one of the best snappers in the league. He was part of that transition and in that era where teams went and committed fully to a long snapper that played no other position. You’ve also seen that now in college. Most college teams have a pure snapper as well as a pure kicker and a pure punter.

"I just think that when you have that situation, if your punter can hold, then the amount of snaps and time that those guys get to practice together, work together, meet together, watch film together, watch slow-motions films, concentrate on the technique as opposed to the backup quarterback or somebody like that who has a lot of other responsibilities. It’s just a time -– if your holder can be your punter, then the amount of practice time, consistency, preparation time that those guys have together just so outweighs what it would be with any other player.

"Receivers have been holders. Then you go through the whole thing, if it’s a position player like a defensive back or like it was back in the ‘60s, a Jimmy Patton or a receiver and something happens to them, now whose your backup player because those guys are regular players. Not only do you have to replace them at their offensive or defensive position, you have to replace them in the kicking game, so it just cuts into your depth. Back when you had 36, 37 players, that was a whole different ballgame. Everybody doubled up in one way or another. I think that’s the way it is on most teams. Most teams punters are the holder and the snappers are the snappers and kickers are the kickers. That’s the way it is in college so we’re recruiting players that are in that very specialized phase themselves."

from: https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/2nwpub/for_anyone_who_didnt_see_this_bill_belichick_was/

I wonder who made the long snaps for Lombardi's Packers?

[Patler]

ps. There are 4 LSs in the NFL who are also backup centers, so some guys can do it.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

Buffalo Bills Garrison Sanborn 6' 1" 240 lbs
Pittsburgh Steelers Greg Warren 6' 3" 252 lbs
Chicago Bears Patrick Mannelly 6' 5" 265 lbs
Carolina Panthers J. J. Jansen 6' 2" 245 lbs

Yes, and you will notice the most common "other position" for a long snapper, including Brett Goode, is "None". Rob Davis was listed as a LS/DE for a few years, too, and occasionally played a snap or two in his earliest years. I wonder how many today have taken any snaps in a game, or a meaningful practice rep at another position. I wonder if Goode ever has since HS, or in his career at GB.

I suspect they will go with any other OL combination before Goode gets in the game.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yes, and you will notice the most common "other position" for a long snapper, including Brett Goode, is "None".

That is irrelevant. A blocking TE is not listed as "Left Tackle", but all of them could fill-in at LT in an emergency.

The key fact is that some long snappers are also formally backup centers. That proves unquestionably that it is credible for a LS to fill-in at center, and it suggests that other LS's might also be options if two interior linemen go down.

[Harlan Huckleby]

any other OL combination before Goode gets in the game.

You would put a big lug with no snapping experience out there before you played Goode?
I don't think so.
Maybe they have several backup snappers, don't know.

[mraynrand]

You would put a big lug with no snapping experience out there before you played Goode?
I don't think so.
Maybe they have several backup snappers, don't know.

I think it really depends on what the team has set up. If they've practiced with other OL (or even DL) in there as backup centers, but no with Goode, then you have your answer. So my question is pretty simple: Have the Packers ever practiced with Goode at center in any offensive (non-kicking) drills?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think it really depends on what the team has set up. If they've practiced with other OL (or even DL) in there as backup centers

They aren't going to be practicing any DL at center. No overlap in skills there at all.

[Patler]

Watch what a long snapper has to do. They have to snap then block. Read the discussions I linked to.


I have watched, including looking at a bunch today that I have recorded. Basically they snap, then lean into one of the guys either guard is engaged with. For the typical punt, the receiving team doesn't rush that much, they retreat to block instead.

As pb said, many times the snapper literally blocks no one after snapping.

I did read your links. One basically said their duty is to snap and they shouldn't worry about blocking, but gave suggestions for not looking like a fool if they did try to block. The other quoted Harbaugh as saying that the ability to do something other than long snap is not at all important, but a huge bonus if they can do something else, like make a tackle (incidently, Rob Davis was known as being very good in punt coverage). I don't see how either one indicates a typical longsnapper can step in and play center on typical downs.

[mraynrand]

They aren't going to be practicing any DL at center. No overlap in skills there at all.

I would guess not. I'm not asking about hypotheticals at this point. I just want to know what they are actually doing in practice. Goode or Lang or Sitton, or someone else dishing emergency snaps?

[Harlan Huckleby]

One basically said their duty is to snap and they shouldn't worry about blocking

uh huh.

There are many references to their blocking roles.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Goode or Lang or Sitton, or someone else dishing emergency snaps?

The long snapper is already trained to snap to the QB, he is Goode to go.

If other linemen get some practice time at center, sure, they would be used if they aren't needed at other positions.

[Joemailman]

Per Bill Belicheck:


from: https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/2nwpub/for_anyone_who_didnt_see_this_bill_belichick_was/

I wonder who made the long snaps for Lombardi's Packers?

I think it was generally the Center. Of course, everybody was smaller then. It was Bill Curry at one point.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qS4wattmL.jpg

[Harlan Huckleby]

The goal posts keep moving. It starts with the implausible "they can't snap to a QB", "they don't know how to block."

Now it's "none are playing significant minutes at other positions in NFL" and "prove they have practice time."

Well, it's credible for a LS to play center, that was proven. Some are backup centers. If you want to dig-in heels and insist it can't or won't be done, I can't answer that.

[Patler]

I think it really depends on what the team has set up. If they've practiced with other OL (or even DL) in there as backup centers, but no with Goode, then you have your answer. So my question is pretty simple: Have the Packers ever practiced with Goode at center in any offensive (non-kicking) drills?

That certainly is what the answer is, and I suspect it will be Lang first since he actually played center when EDS missed some time two years ago. Barclay has practiced some there, too, a couple years ago in training camp. I believe they said this year he practiced a little at all 5 positions.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Goode could fill-in at center (in a pinch) without practice time. The other linemen obviously will need to practice snapping.

[Patler]

That is irrelevant. A blocking TE is not listed as "Left Tackle", but all of them could fill-in at LT in an emergency.

The key fact is that some long snappers are also formally backup centers. That proves unquestionably that it is credible for a LS to fill-in at center, and it suggests that other LS's might also be options if two interior linemen go down.

No, it only suggests that a limited few might be able to play somewhere, probably because they were regulars in college at those positions (like Clark Harris at TE). It certainly makes no suggestion as to whether Goode or other longsnap specialists could or not based on the fact they are longsnappers.

[Joemailman]

ps. There are 4 LSs in the NFL who are also backup centers, so some guys can do it.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2014/8/21/5945187/an-in-depth-look-at-long-snappers

Buffalo Bills Garrison Sanborn 6' 1" 240 lbs
Pittsburgh Steelers Greg Warren 6' 3" 252 lbs
Chicago Bears Patrick Mannelly 6' 5" 265 lbs
Carolina Panthers J. J. Jansen 6' 2" 245 lbs

They might list Center as their other position, but are not the backup Center.

You should have read further with the link you posted.


Christian Yount of the Browns and Jon Dorenbos of the Eagles each lined up for 1 snap on offense as a tight end.

The other 30 long snappers spent a combined zero snaps on the field on offense and defense. Therefore, virtually all long snappers in the NFL were long-snapping specialists last year, even if they were listed as being able to play a different position.

[Harlan Huckleby]

certainly makes no suggestion as to whether Goode or other longsnap specialists could or not based on the fact they are longsnappers.

It proves that someone the size of a LS can fill-in at center without "getting killed", which was the main argument earlier. But the goal posts keep moving - now size is no longer the issue since that argument was debunked.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They might list Center as their other position, but are not the backup Center.

They are not the first backup. We're talking about the backup to the backup - emergency situation.
The goal post moving continues....


You should have read further with the link you posted.
It is not disputed that LSs today are specialists who see little or no time at other positions.

It's also possible that there aren't any TEs in the league who have played LT. That doesn't mean they couldn't function passably in that role in an emergency.

[Patler]

Per Bill Belicheck:


from: https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/2nwpub/for_anyone_who_didnt_see_this_bill_belichick_was/

I wonder who made the long snaps for Lombardi's Packers?

It was basically just their regular lineup, so whoever was the center at the time, Ringo, Curry, Bowman. Starr was the holder for much of the time. When rosters were 36, then 40, you didn't have many specialists. Hornung and Kramer kicked, McGee and Dowler punted, lots of different guys kicked off. It was a big deal when they brought in Chandler to kick and punt. He was Lombardi's only spcialist that I can remember.

On the other side of it, Willie Wood retuned punts, Herb Adderley returned kickoffs. Other starters did as well.

[Patler]

They are not the first backup. We're talking about the backup to the backup - emergency situation.
The goal post moving continues....


It is not disputed that LSs today are specialists who see little or no time at other positions.

It's also possible that there aren't any TEs in the league who have played LT. That doesn't mean they couldn't function passably in that role in an emergency.

I guess it depends on your definition of "passably". If enough guys are injured, someone will play there, they won't forfeit the game. Is that "passably" playing the position?

I suspect we would see every other O-lineman get into the game in some combination before Goode will get in. I suspect there are other backup centers after Lang and Barklay, too; before Goode.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I guess it depends on your definition of "passably". If enough guys are injured, someone will play there, they won't forfeit the game. Is that "passably" playing the position?
Goode is a better choice than some of the other offensive lineman to play at center.
If they stuck to deep snaps, the Packer offense might be functional with Goode at center - more so than at least some other combos.


I suspect we would see every other O-lineman get into the game in some combination before Goode will get in.
Probably it would work out that way.

[Carolina_Packer]

Putting the long snapper in is too risky. If he gets hurt, that chain reaction would be too much. Lang has done it before, he can do it again, if necessary.

[Patler]

Putting the long snapper in is too risky. If he gets hurt, that chain reaction would be too much. Lang has done it before, he can do it again, if necessary.

Ya, I suspect Lang is #3. The problem is, he, too, is "questionable", just like Linsley and Tretter. Conceivably, at some point tonight they could be without all three. Realistically, I expect at least two, if not all three will be ready to go at the start of the game.

[mraynrand]

Goode could fill-in at center (in a pinch) without practice time. The other linemen obviously will need to practice snapping.

I disagree. While Goode could obviously snap the ball, he hasn't practices with the line on protection calls and schemes. Sitton and Lang if they had to shift would probably be much more prepared to adjust and know what to do, but even they would need some practice.

Don't mischaracterize what I'm saying. For me the bottom line is preparation. What is the team preparing and practicing for?

In the case of a tire-fire emergency, with no chance at practice/prep, my inclination would be that a veteran O-linemen would be a better source for a center than the long snapper, due to familiarity with the O-line schemes and calls. Goode could snap the ball, but he probably would be more lost on protections and combo blocks, etc.

[mraynrand]

Putting the long snapper in is too risky. If he gets hurt, that chain reaction would be too much. Lang has done it before, he can do it again, if necessary.

I think this suggests why the LS is protected by rule - because teams don't wants their LS to get hurt, because they don't have adequate backup for that specialty.

[pbmax]

Lang has been mentioned by name as the emergency center before. Sitton has had snaps at center in past weeks where there has been an issue as well.

So the open spot is actually backup(?) to the backup(Sitton) of the backup(Lang) of the backup (Tretter).

Linsley has practiced this week ahead of Tretter when Tretter was healthy. So unless his status drops past questionable, I think we see him start.

[pbmax]

It proves that someone the size of a LS can fill-in at center without "getting killed", which was the main argument earlier. But the goal posts keep moving - now size is no longer the issue since that argument was debunked.

There are literally a hundred starting centers in college who cannot play center in the NFL without getting mauled. Are we even sure Goode played O line in college?

His Packer bio does not mention it.

[Patler]

There are literally a hundred starting centers in college who cannot play center in the NFL without getting mauled. Are we even sure Goode played O line in college?

His Packer bio does not mention it.

I looked at some draft profiles and college articles. No mention of anything but long snapping after high school.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Are we even sure Goode played O line in college?

He may not be able to play center, we'd have to ask him. Then again he might be up to the job. It's an individual question. The generic arguments that a LS can't execute short snaps, don't block as part of their training, would get quickly killed - these are wrong. Some of the LSs cross train as centers, it can be done.

The fact that somebody didn't play a position in college is moving the goal posts unreasonably (altho your point that somebody may have no experience at all at o-line makes some sense.) The unpracticed tackle some want to throw out there never played center either. The TE filling in as emergency LT never played that position before either.

The LS is more likely to execute the snaps without turnovers than an amateur, that's why a LS is a good choice in some cases.

[mraynrand]

Sure Harlan, the LS might be better at snapping the ball. Let's concede that. But unless he practices with the O-line and is familiar with protection calls and blocking schemes, he will likely be a liability in there, even if he can compensate for size and a career lack of experience. So at least you have a significant trade-off to make. You must be able to see that.

[Harlan Huckleby]

But unless he practices with the O-line and is familiar with protection calls and blocking schemes, he will likely be a liability in there

Sure, it would be a crippled offense, especially if LS never practiced at center. Throwing a TE or tackle into center position will be bad too.

[mraynrand]

Sure, it would be a crippled offense, especially if LS never practiced at center. Throwing a TE or tackle into center position will be bad too.

I assume you meant your TE at tackle analogy.

As far as center goes, you have to admit that you are talking about an emergency situation where you've lost both centers, Lang and Sitton. OK, if that happens, you put Goode in there.

[pbmax]

Well, I'll be damned:

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 1h1 hour ago
Rodgers solves who-was-next-on-the-offensive-line mystery. "We were one injury away from Brett Goode being out there at emergency center."

Nice call Harlan.

[smuggler]

Lol Harlan... your avatar owns

[Harlan Huckleby]

Actually the argument was whittled down to the minutea of whether Brett Goode would play ahead of any other lineman due to his center skills, and in the last game I'm not sure there were any warm bodies left on the bench.

But no matter: yesterday was a proud moment for Brett Goode and his family. The QB confirmed that Goode was this close to being a contender.
Congratulations, not-so-big fella!

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20131027&Category=PKR07&ArtNo=310270373&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Mike-Vandermause-column-Metrodome-again-Rodgers-house

[esoxx]

Lol Harlan... your avatar owns

Why is it every time I see that avatar I think of Najeh Davenport.