McCarthy Takes Back Playcalling

[pbmax]

I must be the only one who thinks this was not the problem.

Jay GlazerVerified account
‏@JayGlazer
Scoopage. #packers head coach Mike McCarthy is taking back over play-calling duties today, first time all season

[Patler]

If he does that, is Clement's time in GB done? MM can't just rollback the clock.

[pbmax]

If he does that, is Clement's time in GB done? MM can't just rollback the clock.

I doubt McCarthy views it that way, but Clements might. Ty Dunne notes this is the second time Clements has lost play calling duties (former Bills OC).

Its the structure of the no huddle and the personnel mismatch that cause the problem. This will make no difference unless the plays change, or the approach to constructing the game plan changes.

[denverYooper]

Depends on the outcome.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Who's going to manage strategy, you know, like wasting and mismanaging TO's, with Stubby calling plays?

[Joemailman]

If he does that, is Clement's time in GB done? MM can't just rollback the clock.

I wish he would. Let Clements coordinate the offense, and let Edgar Bennett go back to coaching the WR's.

[mraynrand]

Who's going to manage strategy, you know, like wasting and mismanaging TO's, with Stubby calling plays?

Pick me! Pick me!

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nfl/players/full/312.png&w=350&h=254

[Patler]

Its the structure of the no huddle and the personnel mismatch that cause the problem. This will make no difference unless the plays change, or the approach to constructing the game plan changes.

That might be the exact reason for the change. MM said in the off season that Clements would be responsible for the game plan, because to be an effective play call the game plan has to be yours. Perhaps MM is acknowledging that the game plans have not adapted to the changing aspects of the season.

[Maxie the Taxi]

That might be the exact reason for the change. MM said in the off season that Clements would be responsible for the game plan, because to be an effective play call the game plan has to be yours. Perhaps MM is acknowledging that the game plans have not adapted to the changing aspects of the season.Perhaps Stubby ordered Clements not to change much of anything. Perhaps Clements screwed up by following Stubby's orders. Afterall, Stubby's been saying all that needs to be done is "clean up the details." :???:

[mraynrand]

^^^ and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of the players (Read: Rodgers) may have lost confidence in the game planning 'structure' and 'process'

[Patler]

I wonder what AR will think of this? Hasn't the story been that he and Clements are close, that Rodgers thinks a lot of Clements? The rumor has been for several years that there is some friction between McCarthy and Rodgers, not serious, but they aren't close.

[mraynrand]

Perhaps Stubby ordered Clements not to change much of anything. Perhaps Clements screwed up by following Stubby's orders. Afterall, Stubby's been saying all that needs to be done is "clean up the details." :???:

who knows. Generally Stubby doesn't air his dirty laundry in public.

[mraynrand]

I wonder what AR will think of this? Hasn't the story been that he and Clements are close, that Rodgers thinks a lot of Clements? The rumor has been for several years that there is some friction between McCarthy and Rodgers, not serious, but they aren't close.

:) I was thinking the exact opposite! (at least with respect to the game-planning routine)

[Maxie the Taxi]

who knows. Generally Stubby doesn't air his dirty laundry in public.

In deference to the playcalling change, shouldn't that be "General Stubby doesn't air his dirty laundry in public?"

[Patler]

:) I was thinking the exact opposite! (at least with respect to the game-planning routine)

Ya, that crossed my mind too, when Rodgers made comments a few weeks ago about the plan.

[gbgary]

whodathunkit, after we thought mm's play calling over the years was so bad, that so many would be clamoring for him to take it back over. if we run sideways on a 3rd and short now i'll...

[Joemailman]

I wonder what AR will think of this? Hasn't the story been that he and Clements are close, that Rodgers thinks a lot of Clements? The rumor has been for several years that there is some friction between McCarthy and Rodgers, not serious, but they aren't close.

Maybe that friction wasn't such a bad thing, and maybe having the QB and playcaller close wasn't such a good thing.

[Maxie the Taxi]

whodathunkit, after we thought mm's play calling over the years was so bad, that so many would be clamoring for him to take it back over. if we run sideways on a 3rd and short now i'll...

It's not that we miss Stubby's playcalling, it was his pacing up and down the sidelines coming up with TO strategy that was the reason we demanded change. Poor guy looked lost out there. LOL

[pittstang5]

Some of the playcalling the last couple weeks has been a real head scratcher.

I don't think this will make much of a difference - I hope i'm wrong, but it's the players that need to execute - and I've seen players not doing their part (dropped passes, wrong routes, giving up on plays, etc.).

[red]

i was one of many saying that M3 needs to give up play calling duties at the end of last season

although the play calling has sucked hard this season, i seriously doubt we're going to see a big improvement with the fat fuck calling plays again

i do expect to see a lot more bombs thrown on 3rd and 1 now though

[ThunderDan]

i was one of many saying that M3 needs to give up play calling duties at the end of last season

although the play calling has sucked hard this season, i seriously doubt we're going to see a big improvement with the fat fuck calling plays again

i do expect to see a lot more bombs thrown on 3rd and 1 now though
Better than running wide and losing a yard.

[red]

Better than running wide and losing a yard.

only if you complete the low percentage throw

and a-rods been off

[The Shadow]

Paging Joe Philbin, paging Joe Philbin.

[Patler]

Maybe that friction wasn't such a bad thing, and maybe having the QB and playcaller close wasn't such a good thing.

Very well could be. Just wondering if AR might think his friend (Clements) is being made the scapegoat for a lot of other issues.

[Patler]

Paging Joe Philbin, paging Joe Philbin.

For what?

[ThunderDan]

only if you complete the low percentage throw

and a-rods been off

How is losing a yard better than an incompletion?

[pbmax]

It's not that we miss Stubby's playcalling, it was his pacing up and down the sidelines coming up with TO strategy that was the reason we demanded change. Poor guy looked lost out there. LOL

Might not have been you, but there are LOTS of threads we can bump that call for M3's head because of his play calling.

Just another example of careful what you wish for.

Or you don't know how good you have it.

[pbmax]

Paging Joe Philbin, paging Joe Philbin.

Wouldn't be the worst idea.

[red]

How is losing a yard better than an incompletion?

i honestly hate both options

pound that shit up the middle with a FB blocker

or try and hit a quick slant maybe

[pbmax]

i was one of many saying that M3 needs to give up play calling duties at the end of last season

although the play calling has sucked hard this season, i seriously doubt we're going to see a big improvement with the fat fuck calling plays again

i do expect to see a lot more bombs thrown on 3rd and 1 now though

red beat me to it with an actual example.

[pittstang5]

i honestly hate both options

pound that shit up the middle with a FB blocker

or try and hit a quick slant maybe

I agree - that's what Lacey SHOULD be doing in those situations...not stretching it out on a pitch or whatever.

[esoxx]

Stubby

[red]

i seriously doubt that tubby calling the plays is gonna fix the problems with the bad throws, the piss poor blocking, the shitty routes run or the fumbles from the rb's

i think this is a sign of desperation from m3, cause he can't find anything else to blame (since he won't blame himself for the staff he put together and kept, or his scheme doesn't work when the #1 WR goes down, the fact that his team rarely looks prepared to play, or that he can't make adjustments, or that he cant figure out how not to piss away timeouts, or that he doesn't understand the term "clock management")

people can blsme clements all they want, but he was running tubbys system and you know damn well m3 hand plenty of say in what was run and done

[ThunderDan]

i honestly hate both options

pound that shit up the middle with a FB blocker

or try and hit a quick slant maybe
I don't mind the long throw as much as the wide run.

I'd rather have them run up the gut.

[pbmax]

I don't mind the long throw as much as the wide run.

I'd rather have them run up the gut.

That has not been working either.

[denverYooper]

Wouldn't be the worst idea.

Hoody took McDaniels back after he failed as an HC.

[Guiness]

I wish he would. Let Clements coordinate the offense, and let Edgar Bennett go back to coaching the WR's.

What is Bennett's job now? Is he the OC and Clements assistant HC or something?

[denverYooper]

I for one cannot wait for the 3rd-and-1 bomb.

[Joemailman]

What is Bennett's job now? Is he the OC and Clements assistant HC or something?

Yes. But I have no idea what the division of responsibilities is.

[red]

so, clements job today is to pretty much hold the challenge flag for Mcstubs

[Guiness]

Maybe that friction wasn't such a bad thing, and maybe having the QB and playcaller close wasn't such a good thing.

2nd time in a row responding to your post - we must be on the same wavelength today!

I was thinking the same, the playcaller and guy receiving the plays maybe shouldn't be too buddy buddy. Brent's best years were when Holmgren was calling plays, and cussing him out for taking stupid chances, not when Sherman was fetching him coffee. Rodger's makes mistakes like the rest of them, 2-time MVP or not, it's not a good thing if after doing something wrong, the response is 'there there, we'll get them next time'

[Patler]

Hoody took McDaniels back after he failed as an HC.

He did, but two years later when he had an opening because O'Brien took the Penn State job.
If MM were to rehire Philbin, somebody needs to go.

[Guiness]

Hoody took McDaniels back after he failed as an HC.

Ya, but Philbin never called plays in GB, did he?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Might not have been you, but there are LOTS of threads we can bump that call for M3's head because of his play calling.

Just another example of careful what you wish for.

Or you don't know how good you have it.

I definitely wanted Stubby to give up playcalling, especially after the debacle in the playoff game. My main reason was I thought game management was suffering without full-time someone's attention to it. I even suggested a strategy czar and Stubby calling plays, if memory serves. But really, I don't believe game management has improved much either with Stubby in charge.

Yeah, I know be careful what you wish for, but even so I'm willing to take full responsibility for the current clusterf*ck in GB. :-|

[pbmax]

He did, but two years later when he had an opening because O'Brien took the Penn State job.
If MM were to rehire Philbin, somebody needs to go.

There would be an opening if Clements can't stay (or see himself staying).

[pbmax]

I definitely wanted Stubby to give up playcalling, especially after the debacle in the playoff game. My main reason was I thought game management was suffering without full-time someone's attention to it. I even suggested a strategy czar and Stubby calling plays, if memory serves. But really, I don't believe game management has improved much either with Stubby in charge.

Yeah, I know be careful what you wish for, but even so I'm willing to take full responsibility for the current clusterf*ck in GB. :-|

I do think someone should be in the booth making the strategic clock and challenge calls.

[Maxie the Taxi]

i seriously doubt that tubby calling the plays is gonna fix the problems with the bad throws, the piss poor blocking, the shitty routes run or the fumbles from the rb's

i think this is a sign of desperation from m3, cause he can't find anything else to blame (since he won't blame himself for the staff he put together and kept, or his scheme doesn't work when the #1 WR goes down, the fact that his team rarely looks prepared to play, or that he can't make adjustments, or that he cant figure out how not to piss away timeouts, or that he doesn't understand the term "clock management")

people can blsme clements all they want, but he was running tubbys system and you know damn well m3 hand plenty of say in what was run and done

C'mon, red, those are just details and Stubby's fixing them.:-)

[Patler]

There would be an opening if Clements can't stay (or see himself staying).

An opening for what? If Clements is no longer responsible for the game plan and play calling, what is his job? He has none that I can determine, so what would you hire Philbin to do? Bennett is doing what Philibin did when he was here.

[pbmax]

An opening for what? If Clements is no longer responsible for the game plan and play calling, what is his job? He has none that I can determine, so what would you hire Philbin to do? Bennett is doing what Philibin did when he was here.

If McCarthy decides to keep calling plays and constructing the game plan, I don't think he reduces the number of coaches. I think he redistributes the jobs among three people again.

He left the play calling gig to have more time elsewhere. He would actually have LESS time than last year if he doesn't retain Clements spot.

[Guiness]

I called it! There was NO WAY that McCarthy was going to continue on letting the other morons calling plays! It is about time he took control back! -Guiness' Girlfriend! (Yep got him booze again so he let me near the laptop once again! ) :)

[Patler]

If McCarthy decides to keep calling plays and constructing the game plan, I don't think he reduces the number of coaches. I think he redistributes the jobs among three people again.

He left the play calling gig to have more time elsewhere. He would actually have LESS time than last year if he doesn't retain Clements spot.

So Bennett loses the OC gig?

I suppose he could do like some have, and have a running game coordinator (Bennett) and a passing game coordinator (Clements); but in effect it is a demotion for each. That might not sit too well with either one. Interesting management situation could come up in the off season.

[mraynrand]

I called it! There was NO WAY that McCarthy was going to continue on letting the other morons calling plays! It is about time he took control back! -Guiness' Girlfriend! (Yep got him booze again so he let me near the laptop once again! ) :)


lol. Almost as much fun as when Torrance Marsahall's 'GF' was posting...

[mraynrand]

i seriously doubt that tubby calling the plays is gonna fix the problems with the bad throws, the piss poor blocking, the shitty routes run or the fumbles from the rb's

i think this is a sign of desperation from m3, cause he can't find anything else to blame (since he won't blame himself for the staff he put together and kept, or his scheme doesn't work when the #1 WR goes down, the fact that his team rarely looks prepared to play, or that he can't make adjustments, or that he cant figure out how not to piss away timeouts, or that he doesn't understand the term "clock management")

people can blsme clements all they want, but he was running tubbys system and you know damn well m3 hand plenty of say in what was run and done

How many brews/shots you put down already? These late games must be murder on the liver.

[pbmax]

So Bennett loses the OC gig?

I suppose he could do like some have, and have a running game coordinator (Bennett) and a passing game coordinator (Clements); but in effect it is a demotion for each. That might not sit too well with either one. Interesting management situation could come up in the off season.

Its kind of a mess, but so is the current structure. A lot will depend on whether M3 decides the structure was positive with the exception of the play calling.

[red]

How many brews/shots you put down already? These late games must be murder on the liver.

nothing yet, but i'm getting itchy

[Patler]

Last spring, buth Murphy and Thompson seemed doubtful that it was wise for McCarthy to give up play calling, but said it was his decision and they would support it. They also asked him to think about it for a couple days before enacting the change. I wonder if they put any pressure on him to take the job back?

[red]

we went from blow to suck when he gave up playcalling duties

when he feels that the new guy calling the plays is sucking just as bad as he was blowing, then maybe after m3 blows for the rest of the season as bad as clements was sucking, someone in the organization will figure out that maybe the guy who blows actually sucks

[red]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/60867257.jpg

[denverYooper]

Well, they're moving the ball and scoring in the first half. Maybe the change is helping with consistency of somethingorother.

#smallsamplesizes

[mission]

Was this the first game this season without a stupid timeout because they couldn't get the play in fast enough? Looked much more "oiled" today.
Love the commitment to the run.

[esoxx]

Was this the first game this season without a stupid timeout because they couldn't get the play in fast enough? Looked much more "oiled" today.
Love the commitment to the run.

Nope. There was a stupid time out. Couldn't make them jump offside so had to burn one.

Pay attention.:eyes:

[Joemailman]

Nope. There was a stupid time out. Couldn't make them jump offside so had to burn one.

Pay attention.:eyes:

That was on Rodgers though. They did seem to be doing a better job of getting the plays in on time.

[esoxx]

Yup..

But still a stupid time out.

Baby steps

[esoxx]

dp

[mraynrand]

I don't think that TO was a mistake at all. I think the plan was to draw D offsides and if they get 'em throw the bomb. There was single coverage on the outside. After the TO, I believe they changed personnel. I'll check.

[mission]

Nope. There was a stupid time out. Couldn't make them jump offside so had to burn one.

Pay attention.:eyes:

He used two separate hard cadences there, seemed like it was the plan.

[Pugger]

Evidently McCarthy made this change last Monday. I don't recall hearing anything about it until this morning! This was one well kept secret for sure.

[pbmax]

I don't think that TO was a mistake at all. I think the plan was to draw D offsides and if they get 'em throw the bomb. There was single coverage on the outside. After the TO, I believe they changed personnel. I'll check.

They did. It was Starks. Then it was Lacy after TO.

[pbmax]

Anyone think we saw different plays or even sequences of plays?

This looked like execution to me. Especially O line this week. Decent protection against a talented front four (and some blitzing for some reason) and a run game.

Also saw some of same problems versus man coverage. Not sure team is out of woods yet. Monty will help more.

[pbmax]

Rodgers admitted there were more plays called Sunday that didn't feature check-offs at the line of scrimmage that allow him to change from a run to a pass or a pass to run. It's an indication McCarthy has taken more control of the offense and wants his plays run.

Asked if he feels like he can still check out of plays, Rodgers said, "I still have the opportunity to get us in the best situation possible when I see it."

This makes a lot of sense.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/mike-mccarthy-takes-hold-of-the-reins-b99631649z1-361751821.html

[Fritz]

Anyone think we saw different plays or even sequences of plays?

This looked like execution to me. Especially O line this week. Decent protection against a talented front four (and some blitzing for some reason) and a run game.

Also saw some of same problems versus man coverage. Not sure team is out of woods yet. Monty will help more.


This was my perception. I don't know enough or at least don't track the playcalling closely enough to know if the playcalls were really very much different than what they'd been doing. But what I did see were holes, big holes, to run through.

For all the joy in Whoville, too, that offense from the end of the second quarter through the third - five punts in a row - looked like the same offense we've been watching for much of the season. So where was Stubby's playcalling magic during that stretch??

[LEWCWA]

I don't know, I thought the play calling was very different. Seemed to take advantage of Cobb more, getting him in matchups he could win. Stuck with run game for the most part. Seemed to run to get in 3rd and shorts, instead of running to set up the pass. Used the screen game extensively against a over aggressive front. I liked what I saw, but this team needs Adams to get healthy or his head out his ass if they want to take it up a notch....Monty will help a ton, he seemed to really be a matchup nightmare...

[Infamous]

why doesn't MM take diet pills as well?

[pbmax]

I don't know, I thought the play calling was very different. Seemed to take advantage of Cobb more, getting him in matchups he could win. Stuck with run game for the most part. Seemed to run to get in 3rd and shorts, instead of running to set up the pass. Used the screen game extensively against a over aggressive front. I liked what I saw, but this team needs Adams to get healthy or his head out his ass if they want to take it up a notch....Monty will help a ton, he seemed to really be a matchup nightmare...

I agree about sticking with the run, but that is easy if you are averaging nearly 5 yards per carry.

[Infamous]

he coached GREAT yesterday!


again, Dallas is HORRIBLE though

[Pugger]

There would be an opening if Clements can't stay (or see himself staying).

But do we really need both an Associate HC/offense and an OC?

[Pugger]

he coached GREAT yesterday!


again, Dallas is HORRIBLE though

Offensively yes, Dallas stinks but their defense is not to bad. They are in the top 10 in total yards allowed.

[Patler]

But do we really need both an Associate HC/offense and an OC?

Especially if neither one is responsible for the offensive game plan and play calling?

[pbmax]

I would prefer they do anything they can to get Edgar back in front of the WRs.

[King Friday]

I agree about sticking with the run, but that is easy if you are averaging nearly 5 yards per carry.

Really? We were averaging more than that against Chicago, but the OC decided to throw, throw, throw, throw, throw.

[Patler]

I would prefer they do anything they can to get Edgar back in front of the WRs.

Ya, something seems wrong with that group this year. The story was that Bennett was a fanatic about fumbles with the RBs and dropped passes and blocking for the WRs. The WRs look like they need more attention to detail.

[pbmax]

Really? We were averaging more than that against Chicago, but the OC decided to throw, throw, throw, throw, throw.

Still much easier if you are doing well, and big plays help. They had three TDs from some distance on runs (Starks was from 30). Only Lacy's TD was a run in close red zone.

I thought they were far too worried about the clock on their last trip versus the Bears.

[Patler]

An interesting aspect to this too is that maybe Clements real talent lies upstairs, relaying quality info to MM. Maybe Clements suffered as a play caller because he didn't have Clements as his eye in the sky. Maybe the change upstairs a few weeks ago wasn't really for Rodgers benefit, but to try someone else upstairs instead.

[Pugger]

I definitely wanted Stubby to give up playcalling, especially after the debacle in the playoff game. My main reason was I thought game management was suffering without full-time someone's attention to it. I even suggested a strategy czar and Stubby calling plays, if memory serves. But really, I don't believe game management has improved much either with Stubby in charge.

Yeah, I know be careful what you wish for, but even so I'm willing to take full responsibility for the current clusterf*ck in GB. :-|

I wasn't thrilled with Mac's decision to give up play calling. I guess you don't know what you have until it is taken/yielded away. ;-)

[Pugger]

Was this the first game this season without a stupid timeout because they couldn't get the play in fast enough? Looked much more "oiled" today.
Love the commitment to the run.

I don't know if was the first game but that screwing around as the play clock ran drove me crazy this year. Only one time did we have to waste a TO yesterday.

[Pugger]

I would prefer they do anything they can to get Edgar back in front of the WRs.

I hear ya. I say give the OC job back to Clements, let Van Pelt work the QBs and Edgar the WRs. I've never been a fan of Van Pelt in charge of both QBs and Wrs.

[Joemailman]

A pretty good, if short, article but the impact of MM's playcalling Sunday.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/14/green-bay-packers-nfl-play-calling-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers


McCarthy’s impact was evident from the outset. On second-and-six on Green Bay’s second drive, he called an off-tackle split-zone run for Eddie Lacy out of a two-back set with Randall Cobb motioning to an offset wing position. Lacy’s run gained 18 yards. Two plays later, on second-and-eight, the Packers showed the exact same formation (including Cobb’s motion) and did play-action off the same run look, this time with James Starks. The play was designed to hit Cobb on a rollout in the flat; after some hesitation, Rodgers did, for four yards.
It wasn’t a big gain, but the concept was what’s important. McCarthy was “building offense”—calling plays that worked off previous plays and that set up future plays. It’s what good offenses do and, frankly, it wasn’t common enough under Clements, where the Packers seemed to run one isolated play after another.

[Fritz]

An opening for what? If Clements is no longer responsible for the game plan and play calling, what is his job? He has none that I can determine, so what would you hire Philbin to do? Bennett is doing what Philibin did when he was here.

Well, I did see Julius Peppers looking around for someone with a water bottle during a timeout.

And I think the laundry unit needs someone in quality control.