Another season goes by the boards, Rodgers another year older...

[wist43]

So 2015 is all-but done, looking forward to next year...

Of course no one will be fired... "we'll get that fixed". TT will proceed at his turtle pace... we will be good, but not good enough in 2016.

-------------------------------------------------------

I thought we had the talent to win it all at the beginning of the year - the question to me was going to be coaching. The coaching has been average at best, and it is obvious we are not in the same league as the upper-tier teams. Carolina, Arizona, and Seattle are all much better than we are. In the AFC, NE, Denver, Cincy, and Pittsburgh are all much better than we are...

We are quite a ways down the ladder, and given TT's approach, we won't close that gap in 2016.

The future looks like 9-7, and being an easy out in playoffs for the foreseeable future.

[Rutnstrut]

I got blasted a few years ago on this forum for stating the exact same thing. I said TT and stubby are happy with the status quo, and winning the division and getting to the playoffs are good enough. Of course the kool-aid drinkers bring up the 2010 season and the injuries and...

[TravisWilliams23]

It doesn't look good right now. Since the bye week it seemed every game, save Minny, has been a bang your head against the wall asking WTF is going on out here. They aren't cleaning up the mess we see week in- week out.

TT and Stubby know their jobs are on the line and the only real goal is a SB title. When you try to convince me they're happy with just winning the div and getting to the playoffs, I tend to dismiss your post as counter-kool-aid.

Fact: Losing Jordy was a HUGE blow to the offense this year. Adams doesn't belong on the field right now but who's really better on the bench? That 2010 team had a in-his-prime Greg Jennings, budding star Jordy and pretty decent Finley with a decent JJ at the receiver positions. No comparison to todays wide outs by a mile. I can understand Arod having an off year because of the lack of talent there. The O-line is a mess. Those are real problems that you have to consider if you're being honest in assessing this years team.

The Pats don't look good without Gronk and Ammendola and Eddleman. The Steelers don't look good without Big Ben, Cincy isn't going anywhere without Dalton. Arizona and Carolina have remained pretty healthy and Seattle is beatable because of some key players lost to injury and free agency. It happens. I'm sure the Packers brass will take a look at the coaches after the season and perhaps demand TT make a coaching change IF they believe that's the problem.

At this point in time, they have to beat Minny next week to get the home field for one game. Then, I really don't have any confidence they'll go any further because that's just the way this season has gone. There isn't any magic pill they can take to fix this. They just aren't a championship caliber team with the players left. That's a fact.

[call_me_ishmael]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

[Bossman641]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

Good take.

[Rutnstrut]

There is NOTHING realistic about this team going 11-5. If you think next week against the Vikes is a given, you better think again. Mn is playing much better football right now than GB.

[ThunderDan]

There is NOTHING realistic about this team going 11-5. If you think next week against the Vikes is a given, you better think again. Mn is playing much better football right now than GB.

They are playing at home against the Giants who have obviously mailed in the season after being eliminated from the playoffs.

[pbmax]

Bennett is viewed pretty favorably. Even if he has Peter Principled out of a job, the Packers will want him to stick around.

Patter might be right that Clements might not think so highly of the situation now that he has been demoted. However, the failure of the offense to improve much helps make him look less culpable.

The entire no huddle requires a rethink or a compete retooling of WRs.

[call_me_ishmael]

The things that I am struggling to process are:

1. Last year we saw a gimpy Rodgers rarely get touched. The OL built a wall around him. What has happened this year? How much of are issues are receivers not getting opening versus QB/WR not having any time? I recognize that there are injuries. I viewed the Packer OL as the #1 unit in the league towards the end of last season and in the playoffs. They have looked pretty darn bad lately and possibly as far back as the buy?

2. What the heck happened to Davante Adams? Last year he was a budding star. During the off-season, he was phrased as a breakout player in the OTAs. Right now, he seems to be struggling to get any separation (I perceive, I could be wrong). I also perceive that he is really struggling to catch the ball. Were drops an issue last year for him? I don't perceive that but I don't have the info either. What has changed for him? If it just confidence, did he bulk up and lose some speed, etc? What changed? Is there any chance he can bounce back into the promising player Rodgers once described as a pro-bowl type talent?

3. Will HHCD take the next step forward? He has looked like just-a-guy to me this year. Last year, to me he looked like a very promising player who was a a little seasoning away from being a superstar type talent. What happened to him? Just a sophomore slump? Has he been solid-but-not-spectacular and thus not standing out one way or another? Is his future still very bright and a future superstar?

4. Who are the new faces next year? I perceive that lots of the guys with expiring contracts are just that - guys. Any number of them could be brought back at a modest price (Nick Perry, Casey Hayward, Mike Neal, etc). Will they be? Who is next to step into those spots? If they guys are not playing very well and have some glaring negative (oft-injured, etc), will they be back? My gut says Casey Hayward ends up back here if he doesn't get a big deal. I like his body language and the way he interacts with his peers during a game, and I perceive that he has turned it around a bit as of late. I also can't see Nick Perry leaving for some reason.

5. Why are teams suddenly playing us differently? A few years back, teams would sit back in a zone and let Aaron struggle to find an open option against deep safeties providing extra cover. I perceive the Packers really struggling with this for awhile. Now, teams have switched to playing a different style against them. Does this mean the offense, talent and experience evolved to beat the deep zone coverage? What does that say about the press coverage that teams are playing today? Clearly what they teams are doing in terms of coverage is working, so how do we evolve to beat it? Are we seeing other high-powered offenses covered in a similar way? If not, why not? What attributes do those teams possess that the Packers don't that prevent them from being covered in such a way.

[ThunderDan]

HHCD hasn't been great but has been a solid starter. He has 30+ more tackles than the next player on the team.

[pbmax]

Teams used to sit back in Cover 2, but the most successful played man under that safety look, not zone. He has routinely torched zones. His limited TEs and Cobb struggle versus man but are much better at setting up in a zone.

The exception was the Seahawks, who mainly play single high safety (Earl Thomas) and drop the corners into Cover 3.

[call_me_ishmael]

Teams used to sit back in Cover 2, but the most successful played man under that safety look, not zone. He has routinely torched zones. His limited TEs and Cobb struggle versus man but are much better at setting up in a zone.

The exception was the Seahawks, who mainly play single high safety (Earl Thomas) and drop the corners into Cover 3.

So are you saying teams aren't really playing us that differently and that it is a talent/schematic issue on offense? Legitimate question.

[Rutnstrut]

These are all issues that a good coaching staff should be taking care of.

[pbmax]

So are you saying teams aren't really playing us that differently and that it is a talent/schematic issue on offense? Legitimate question.

They are playing more press man than before, which is to stop the short passing game. And the Packers don't have Nelson to blow the top off that defense. And Adams hasn't been able to either replace him or work the middle of the field that this would normally open up. They put the best cover guy on Coob or double him and its asphyxiating. This would also be helped by a killer TE.

Being in press man makes then vulnerable to Rodgers running. So some teams rushed with five, not so much a pass blitz as a QB lane clogging blitz. Rodgers in the pocket is such a mess now that it almost doesn't matter. Though oddly, he looked more comfortable running versus the Cardinals than he had in a long time.

Teams then tended to move to single high safety because after success of press man, they are less worried about passing and more worried about the run.

[beveaux1]

No one will be fired? We've already seen someone "fired" without being let go midseason. What are the odds the offensive coaching staff is brought back as is? I highly doubt the people demoted will just be okay being demoted. Then again - maybe they can't find a better job. I would not be shocked if Clements and Bennett are both gone and Philbin is back as OC. I would be shocked if both Clements and Bennett are back as there isn't room for both in my opinion.

It is clear the talent is not good enough this year. Players are another year older and slower in key spots.

- Josh Sitton does not look like the best guard is the league anymore.
- Bryan Bulaga cannot stay healthy. Not sure that contract was a good idea then and less convinced now.
- Randall Cobb has been exposed. He's not a top-tier talent.
- Davante Adams lost all confidence and has been exposed as way too slow. Maybe he bulked up too much?

The Packers will "blow up" the receiving corps. By that, I mean draft two guys in the first five of the draft. No way they let Adams go even though he was complete trash. I highly doubt Abby and Janis will be back. I don't know what FA TE's will be available but I could see TT dabbling here (I know, I know).

Bottom line - you aren't going to beat a top tier pass rush with 3-4 starting OL (and good players at that, not journeymen) on the bench. It's easy to overreact after a butt whooping, but let's be real - the Cardinals are probably the best team in the NFL. Who doesn't think they beat the Panthers even on the road?

There is a ZERO percent chance (in my opinion) that MM is let go. You guys are nuts if you don't think he is a premier coach and would have his coach of several head coaching jobs. Beyond his talent and what he brings to the table, that just isn't the Packer way. GB employees almost always have an opportunity to turn it around. But realistically - they're going to be 11-5, what needs to be turned around? That's a pretty good year.

I agree with this. You've pointed out the mistakes made in the past off seasons - Bulaga and Cobb, but I know that I was in favor of re-signing both of them. Without them, we did not have a decent RT or a 2nd WR threat. I knew that Bulaga had a lot of trouble staying healthy, but developing another tackle was too high a risk. Cobb has been exposed without the threat of Nelson. He's just not a #1, certainly not worth the money he's being paid. I think with Nelson, his value as an all-purpose receiver, runner, and returner, would not be questioned.

What I have trouble with is the reality of what a GM can do to put us in the super bowl. Get a free agent TE, get a free agent WR, draft more OTs, sign free agent OTs, or draft a TE. At the end of last year, we knew we needed to strengthen the defense and the STs. Look at the rookies we drafted, they filled these needs pretty well. By the time we needed a WR when Nelson went down, we acquired Jones as a free agent. I thought that was a pretty good move. The reality is that there is not unlimited cap space. If there was, there would be more teams like the 1992 Cowboys. Look around the league at the number of teams that need OTs. There isn't an endless supply and Barclay had filled in as a starter for a season in the past. Even a year removed from injury, it was reasonable to believe he would be adequate as the season wore on. He hasn't been. R Rodgers was coming off a decent rookie year, one in which he beat out Quarles for the starting job. Again, it was reasonable to believe that he would get better and that we didn't need to look for another TE. He's been very spotty and we lost Quarless 3 games into the season. This left us with no real back up, but it was reasonable to think that those two would be fine for the season with young guys getting ST reps.

Nobody has OL depth in which 2 or 3 starters go down without any effect on the offense. Yet, there have been many games that at least 1 starter was out and a few when 2 or 3 starters went down during the game. Who's to blame for these problems?

A reasonable person would say that a team with this many offensive problems should not have won 10 games. I don't think we would have won this many games if the league was not as relatively weak as it is. I also think that MM has no chance of being let go for that very reason. I also think that this year proves that our QB is not the team. He needs protection and weapons. He hasn't really been blessed with either this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

The heart of the problem IMO is the O Line. It was mediocre at best when healthy, and it's horrible now with the injuries. They got a helluva lot more credit than they deserved in better times, as Aaron Rodgers made it all happen with his escapability and ability to throw on the run. Now, with slightly lesser receivers, it just ain't happening. Also, the Denver game exposed sort of a myth that if teams put a max pass rush on Rodgers, especially with blitzes, he would destroy them. In reality, though, blitzing is only a small part of the problem. Most of the time, 4 or even just 3 linemen can easily beat our O Line and put extreme pressure on the QB. If that all wasn't enough, there very seldom are holes for our RBs to run - more often than not, any running success comes from bouncing away from our stacked up O Line.

The team has slowly deteriorated in a lot of ways, masked by Rodgers' ability. The total rejection of the idea of significant free agents along with the lack of success in high round drafting has left us where we are now, and a lot of it maybe was predictable - the draft picks I mean.

[beveaux1]

An article that says what many on this board have been saying:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-winners-and-losers--aaron-rodgers-far-from-from-his-mvp-level-040548539.html

[George Cumby]

The heart of the problem IMO is the O Line.

This, plus talent erosion.

And Olivia Munn.

[red]

An article that says what many on this board have been saying:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-winners-and-losers--aaron-rodgers-far-from-from-his-mvp-level-040548539.html

thats a damn good article

[wist43]

What's most disheartening is that we're looking on the downside for at least a couple of years - Rodgers will be what, 34-35 by then, and Jordy 32-33.

Given TT's approach, the problems that ail this team are simply too many to fix within a season or two. I've never like their approach to how they roster the OL, and MM's meek approach run blocking; dunderdummy is dunderdummy - no fixing that guy; the soft DB's; the poor tackling; on and on...

[pbmax]

I agree with tpb. Elsewhere, I maintained this was the best team in football at the end of the 2014 season. And I don't see the talent having fallen that far off.

The one exception is O line. They need a tackle prospect in the worst way. To replace Bulaga, even if contractually that doesn't happen in 2016, then to be his backup. And they probably need one to push Bach. Ideally, Bach is the backup in two years. They also might need a Guard, but I like Walker and would be willing to give him another year.

I think Barrington will be enough with Matthews at ILB, but another of those would not hurt either.

[Joemailman]

Defensively the Packers are decent and will probably be a bit better next year. Offensively, they need to restock the offensive line. Barclay, Walker, and maybe even Bakh should be playing Guard. They may have 6 picks in the 1st 4 rounds of the draft. 2 of those picks need to be Tackles. They need to increase the team speed at the offensive skill positions. Packers went into 2015 with 5 RB/FB's on the roster, 4 of whom tipped the scales at 230+. Their fastest RB is Starks. They're going to need to hope that Jordy returns as Jordy, and that either Adams or Monty can do the job. Still, they need another WR who defenses have to respect deep. Richard Rodgers has shown why many were surprised that the Packers took him in the 3rd round. Those who had him graded as a 6th round prospect were right. He has good hands but is slow. They need a TE who can threaten the seam even if he's not a "complete" TE.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'm not ready to concede this season quite yet.

We all know the Packers' personnel weaknesses which have to be addressed in the off season. Joemailman put his finger on them. Personally, I think TT is going to have to rethink his aversion to free agency to fill some of the gaps (Peppers is a good start). Perhaps Arizona and Carolina demonstrate the new way to go. They haven't been shy about signing vets to fill holes and help them down the stretch, vets like Freeney, Rucker, Gresham, Iupati, Ginn, Tillman, Tolbert and Olsen. Plus, they've emphasized speed at skill positions in the draft (esp. Arizona) which IMO the Packers lack.

Just as TT and Stubby garner high praise when things are going well, they are going to have to accept the lion's share of criticism if things end badly this season. Just as TT is gonna have to broaden his horizons, Stubby is going to have to rethink some things, namely the no huddle offense and his coaching assignments, let alone playcalling.

But for now, I want to concentrate on the rest of this season. I found Arod's comments after yesterday's game interesting and encouraging. More or less he said they'll pull things together when it counts. One of the strengths of Stubby's teams -- and Arod is a big part of that as the team leader -- is the ability to produce when their backs are against the wall. A lot of these guys are seasoned vets who have the ability to kick it up a notch or two during the playoffs, when the slate is cleaned and everybody starts from zero. I'm thinking there's a pretty good chance this might happen this year. They may not have the talent to go all the way, but I don't expect any more blowouts either.

[pbmax]

^ That's kinda funny because just by reading them, haven't seen the video, I took his comments about 'showing up when it counts' to be too little too late.

But it would be more than welcome. I think they do have it in them to be much more efficient on offense. They need Bach to be back though. Barclay cannot man LT against a good pass rush.

[Maxie the Taxi]

^ That's kinda funny because just by reading them, haven't seen the video, I took his comments about 'showing up when it counts' to be too little too late.

But it would be more than welcome. I think they do have it in them to be much more efficient on offense. They need Bach to be back though. Barclay cannot man LT against a good pass rush.

I haven't seen the video either. Maybe it was nothing but a throwaway line. But I like to think these guys are pretty savvy. I don't think too many of them would have bet the farm on going into Arizona and winning. I think a lot of them went in thinking they'd give it a shot but if things went south it wasn't the end of the world. Even if this kind of reckoning is totally subconscious, it exists nevertheless, despite the fan noise. Arod's been there before. He knows the score. He knows what is required to make a run in January and what this team is capable of. I bet he and a bunch of other vets on that team actually believe that if they go back to Arizona in January the outcome will be different. And they might be right. Based on last year's experience alone, it might be the only edge they have over greener, more talented teams.

[hoosier]

I might have hear the we'll show up when it counts line as hopeful a month ago, but at this point the needle is pointing in completely the wrong direction. Not only did they just get their asses kicked for the second time in a season (when's the last time that happened to a Packer team that went on to do anything in the postseason?) but their problems on offense are compounded by an offensive line that is beaten up. The injured are not going to recover quickly and their replacements have proven they are not up to the task. I see a one-and-done team unless they play at Washington, in which case I would give them a decent shot to wait until the second round before losing.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I haven't seen the video either. Maybe it was nothing but a throwaway line. But I like to think these guys are pretty savvy. I don't think too many of them would have bet the farm on going into Arizona and winning. I think a lot of them went in thinking they'd give it a shot but if things went south it wasn't the end of the world. Even if this kind of reckoning is totally subconscious, it exists nevertheless, despite the fan noise. Arod's been there before. He knows the score. He knows what is required to make a run in January and what this team is capable of. I bet he and a bunch of other vets on that team actually believe that if they go back to Arizona in January the outcome will be different. And they might be right. Based on last year's experience alone, it might be the only edge they have over greener, more talented teams.

I just don't like the attitude of "we'll turn it on when we need to" that it seems they say. That type of mentality is just asking for trouble.

Add in that they have had consistent issues for the past 3 months that they've been saying they need to fix. Those types of issues don't just suddenly get fixed because it's January and playoff time. If they aren't fixed by now, they aren't going to be in 2 weeks time either. It isn't just a bad game here or there that one can just wipe away. It's a 4-5 record since week 6, with one win due to a completely lucky break (Detroit). I just don't believe that the Packers can just "turn it on", not this year. The offense could do it that past 3-4 seasons, but this iteration of the offense can't do that and I think Rodgers is wrong in thinking that way, or at least commenting on it that way.

[Joemailman]

"This was a playoff-style game for us and we obviously played terrible," Rodgers said. "But we’ve won a lot of games here. When you play long enough you’re going to be on the wrong side of this sometimes. But I have confidence in those guys and myself that when it matters for all of the marbles we’re going to show up."

I saw the PC live. I think this was Rodgers trying to sound calm and assured at a time when things seem to be falling apart. I liked his demeanor more than I have in a while.

His comments above are at the 8:00 mark of the video. http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Rodgers-We-can-get-this-thing-turned-around/2d563c9f-4d97-4e73-9774-4472fe6f28a9

[Fritz]

I might have hear the we'll show up when it counts line as hopeful a month ago, but at this point the needle is pointing in completely the wrong direction. Not only did they just get their asses kicked for the second time in a season (when's the last time that happened to a Packer team that went on to do anything in the postseason?) but their problems on offense are compounded by an offensive line that is beaten up. The injured are not going to recover quickly and their replacements have proven they are not up to the task. I see a one-and-done team unless they play at Washington, in which case I would give them a decent shot to wait until the second round before losing.


As I said on another thread, I did not know - until last night, it seems - whether this team was gritty and tough and all the tough times would toughen this team for a run, or whether the offense just wouldn't manage to get its head out of its collective ass and they'd be one and done.

Now I think I know. The defense is solid but not special, as are the special teams. But MM refused, early on, to commit to the run, and the passing game just isn't working. Starks can't stop coughing it up, Rodgers can't stop shrugging and looking disgusted, and the receivers can't stop dropping the ball.

At this point, this team would be better off against the Skins on the road than the Seahawks or Vikings at home, and there's no sure bets they can win even one playoff game.

I'll be rooting and watching but I'm not optimistic.

[pbmax]

^ At one point in the first quarter, it was 8-2, run versus pass. At a certain point running wasn't much of an option. And the best runner was out of the game after the first play of the second half.

[pbmax]

One positive?

James Jones is now example #1 of why you don't delve into Free Agency for older players. :lol:

[Maxie the Taxi]

One positive?

James Jones is now example #1 of why you don't delve into Free Agency for older players. :lol:

I guess that makes Dwight Freeney example #2. :-)

[pbmax]

I guess that makes Dwight Freeney example #2. :-)

Unlike Jones, Freeney's best moments came late in the year.

[woodbuck27]

I got blasted a few years ago on this forum for stating the exact same thing. I said TT and stubby are happy with the status quo, and winning the division and getting to the playoffs are good enough. Of course the kool-aid drinkers bring up the 2010 season and the injuries and...

I applaud your spunk and seeing the TRUTH.

:bclap: and :glug:


'YOUR' a member of a sound group of clear thinkers at Packerrats that HOLDS STRONG. A group of posters who've had to stand in tough; endure harshness and volatile attitudes from a band of brother/sister fans that somehow neglected the BIG PICTURE:

A focus that merits applause and support. we choose to Green Bay Packers as a central and decent focus.

You survived prejudice and unfair attacks. Discounted for our views that in are soundly based in reason and common sense values. We appreciate and accept 'a Homer Attitude'. One that once predominated at OUR Packer Home and thankfully has lost it's bite.

A group of posters' who gradually have been pressed by events to accept certain reality checks and what was and will be GOOD in Green Bay Packer history.




Fact: On Sunday 27 Dec,.2015..Green Bay Packers @ Arizona Cardinals .... Aaron Rodgers set a dubious record

Sadly...Aaron Rodgers became the first NFL QB that's suffered more QB SACKS at 8 than he scored Fantasy Points.




Am ..... I allowed to write the word 'fantasy' on this thread?

GO PACKERS! GO PACK GO !!

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree about not writing off this season just yet, although a Super Bowl has gone from strongly likely to a real long shot. It's not so much a matter of "turning it on at the right time" as a hot and cold team that still has the capability on a good week to come through. The two really bad losses - Denver and Arizona - were good teams playing at home and arguably with above normal motivation (Denver the unbeaten thing and Arizona the prospect of catching Carolina). Also, both had devastating pass rushes against our poor O Line.

For the future, I totally agree we need at least a couple of big brutal O Linemen. I'm a little bit leery of drafting them high - Sherrod comes to mind, as well as all the way back to Mandarich. It seems like most of the decent O Linemen we've had we kinda stumbled into later in the draft. Just the same, we need to take the chance, and I mean early in the draft. Even that hope, however, is tempered by the Packers disgusting tendency to let good young players just sit for a year or two instead of developing them quickly like most other teams.

[woodbuck27]

They are playing at home against the Giants who have obviously mailed in the season after being eliminated from the playoffs.

http://img4.looper.com/img/gallery/why-ben-afflecks-batman-flick-could-be-terrible-or-amazing/dcs-shared-universe-is-all-under-one-roof.jpg

errrrr maybe ..... ???

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers has never been a type of QB that lets it go at the end of his drop. He takes forever in the pocket to locate his receivers and throw the football. The offensive line has been a mash unit from the beginning of the year. I don't think either tackle has been healthy since preseason. Sitton is battling back problems and leg problems all year. The Packers can't run the ball because the offensive line can't get a push and they have lost their first step on the edge. Sorry guys it starts up front, you can blame the receivers all you want but the injuries and the play of the line is the fundamental down fall of this team. Offensive linemen get hurt when they are not playing well, they are usually stood up and push over piles, or they are standing straight up and get their legs cut from underneath them. See Bulaga from yesterday.

[woodbuck27]

Rodgers has never been a type of QB that lets it go at the end of his drop. He takes forever in the pocket to locate his receivers and throw the football. The offensive line has been a mash unit from the beginning of the year. I don't think either tackle has been healthy since preseason. Sitton is battling back problems and leg problems all year. The Packers can't run the ball because the offensive line can't get a push and they have lost their first step on the edge. Sorry guys it starts up front, you can blame the receivers all you want but the injuries and the play of the line is the fundamental down fall of this team. Offensive linemen get hurt when they are not playing well, they are usually stood up and push over piles, or they are standing straight up and get their legs cut from underneath them. See Bulaga from yesterday.

YUP !

[Rutnstrut]

One positive?

James Jones is now example #1 of why you don't delve into Free Agency for older players. :lol:

I really hope you are kidding. Jones is their most dependable receiver this year. He isn't a world beater, but they knew that. He is exactly what they thought he would be, and probably more. Without him, I doubt they would have started out 6-0. Which is the only thing saving their season right now.

[pbmax]

I really hope you are kidding. Jones is their most dependable receiver this year. He isn't a world beater, but they knew that. He is exactly what they thought he would be, and probably more. Without him, I doubt they would have started out 6-0. Which is the only thing saving their season right now.

Really not kidding. The fact that Jones is the best option is a condemnation of the rest of the corps, not a plaudit for Jones' remaining talents. Bad passing attacks gave up on him and its easy to see why now. Same with Boykin.

However, the FA part is a red herring, as he came in for the veteran minimum and that is not what critics of Thompson usually mean by signing UFAs.

[Deputy Nutz]

I thought Jones was the only receiver the Packers were playing in the second half.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Sorry guys it starts up front, you can blame the receivers all you want but the injuries and the play of the line is the fundamental down fall of this team.

Yesterday was a disaster. There have been many games this season where the O-line pass protected quite well - nobody to throw to.

[RashanGary]

I blame Rodgers and McCarthy. You can't tell me there isn't enough talent on the offensive side of the ball to do better than this. Short passes, tight Windows, check downs, running the ball, etc.....

[MadtownPacker]

Soon there will be a "Rodgers the living legend" thread where we all fight about how much better he was or wasn't then the next QB.

[pbmax]

^Time to advertise again!

[pbmax]

I blame Rodgers and McCarthy. You can't tell me there isn't enough talent on the offensive side of the ball to do better than this. Short passes, tight Windows, check downs, running the ball, etc.....

Its more than talent. The scheme is broken and Rodgers is not in rhythm and doesn't agree with the play calls. DickRod has been targeted about 3 times since his breakout game.

I thought Patler was over-reacting earlier this year when he asked about the offseason changes, but the structure on offense has at a minimum not provided any help. More broadly, it has served the WR group and the passing game poorly.

[Sparkey]

What is the main change on offense from this year to last year ? Coaches......

They made so many changes on the offensive coaching side of the ball that along the way something was lost. Clements moved from OC to Associate Head Coach. Edgar Bennett moved from WR to OC. Alex Van Pelt added WR coach to his duties.

I watch replays of games and see horrible route running and route concepts. Multiple receivers within 10 yards of each other and whole quarters of the field that are empty ? It just boggles the mind. Maybe they made the playbook so complicated that the young guys are lost in actually knowing the routes to run? I mean, the play in the first half where Rogers is rolling right on a scarmble and Adams breaks off his in route and runs toward the opposite sideline ? WTF is that ? Why make a play harder than it has to be.

That and guys not making plays. For example. 1st quarter, Packers had gotten a first down on a runing play, next play play action for Abredderis who is open crossing the field and drops an easy catch. Just looks like poor preparation to me and that starts at the top.

[Striker]

What is the main change on offense from this year to last year ? Coaches......

They made so many changes on the offensive coaching side of the ball that along the way something was lost. Clements moved from OC to Associate Head Coach. Edgar Bennett moved from WR to OC. Alex Van Pelt added WR coach to his duties.

I watch replays of games and see horrible route running and route concepts. Multiple receivers within 10 yards of each other and whole quarters of the field that are empty ? It just boggles the mind. Maybe they made the playbook so complicated that the young guys are lost in actually knowing the routes to run? I mean, the play in the first half where Rogers is rolling right on a scarmble and Adams breaks off his in route and runs toward the opposite sideline ? WTF is that ? Why make a play harder than it has to be.

That and guys not making plays. For example. 1st quarter, Packers had gotten a first down on a runing play, next play play action for Abredderis who is open crossing the field and drops an easy catch. Just looks like poor preparation to me and that starts at the top.

One of the things I've noticed is that the WRs aren't really doing much after they finish their routes. You see a lot of standing around waiting for Aaron to do something.

[Bossman641]

One of the things I've noticed is that the WRs aren't really doing much after they finish their routes. You see a lot of standing around waiting for Aaron to do something.

Yep. Guys don't run routes like they are looking to get open and when they finish routes they aren't doing much.

[woodbuck27]

Soon there will be a "Rodgers the living legend" thread where we all fight about how much better he was or wasn't then the next QB.

Yahooooooo !

[woodbuck27]

What is the main change on offense from this year to last year ? Coaches......

They made so many changes on the offensive coaching side of the ball that along the way something was lost. Clements moved from OC to Associate Head Coach. Edgar Bennett moved from WR to OC. Alex Van Pelt added WR coach to his duties.

I watch replays of games and see horrible route running and route concepts. Multiple receivers within 10 yards of each other and whole quarters of the field that are empty ? It just boggles the mind. Maybe they made the playbook so complicated that the young guys are lost in actually knowing the routes to run? I mean, the play in the first half where Rogers is rolling right on a scarmble and Adams breaks off his in route and runs toward the opposite sideline ? WTF is that ? Why make a play harder than it has to be.

That and guys not making plays. For example. 1st quarter, Packers had gotten a first down on a runing play, next play play action for Abredderis who is open crossing the field and drops an easy catch. Just looks like poor preparation to me and that starts at the top.

Good stuff based on your concerns/efforts. (repped)

I also have the game on tape and will try to find time to make observations and come back with what I see.

There was just so much messed up last evening that maybe the best thing is simply wash it.

Get a fresh start and a very positive mind set to take Minny.

GO PACK GO !

[texaspackerbacker]

I hear this crap so often about Rodgers taking too long to throw the ball. That just ain't accurate. 90 or 95% of the time, he is running for his life as soon as the ball is snapped. That was the case before when we had receivers who got open. Now we don't most of the time - that and teams are getting smarter about playing closer to the line/taking a chance on deep throws. You guys saying he holds it too long, what do you want? A damn Cutler or Stafford who puts it up for grabs? I've actually seen Rodgers moving toward that lately, and I don't like it - as if somebody is stupidly telling him to not be quite so careful about avoiding interceptions. Another thing I don't like is all the stupidity about running more. In a lot of cases, all that does is waste downs and put more pressure on the QB. I don't hate a run first attack; Take last season's Wisconsin O Line with Stave at QB and Gordon running - in THAT situation run-first is called for. With our crap O Line and STILL the best QB in the NFL over the past 5 years or so, running should only be a change of pace.

[Freak Out]

It all starts in the trenches and our guys have succumb to the Kraut gas attack.

[Fritz]

^ At one point in the first quarter, it was 8-2, run versus pass. At a certain point running wasn't much of an option. And the best runner was out of the game after the first play of the second half.

And I liked that ratio. I think MM gave up on it too quickly. For example, when the offense got the ball back after Daniels's interception, I'd have just run it three times. Full house backfield, Rodgers and Quarless at TE with Kuhn in the backfield to block, something. Or maybe a spread formation with only Lacey in the backfield, and then that shovel pass to him as he's standing near the line of scrimmage by the center. Something.

I have no faith, at all, in the passing game. So I'd try to resurrect the running game the team had for a couple games there, when Lacey had big yards and MM kept calling the run. Then you could at least hope play action might help open some things up.

[Carolina_Packer]

Rodgers has never been a type of QB that lets it go at the end of his drop. He takes forever in the pocket to locate his receivers and throw the football. The offensive line has been a mash unit from the beginning of the year. I don't think either tackle has been healthy since preseason. Sitton is battling back problems and leg problems all year. The Packers can't run the ball because the offensive line can't get a push and they have lost their first step on the edge. Sorry guys it starts up front, you can blame the receivers all you want but the injuries and the play of the line is the fundamental down fall of this team. Offensive linemen get hurt when they are not playing well, they are usually stood up and push over piles, or they are standing straight up and get their legs cut from underneath them. See Bulaga from yesterday.

There are excuses and then there are reasons. These are reasons.

I think it's all interrelated. I think the O-line being able to create cutback lanes means the RB's properly reading and hitting the holes. I see that leading to good down and distance and second and third down, with more manageable third down conversions. How often have we seen third and long?

Third and short is a good thing, especially to an offensive line that has protection issues, and for receivers who can't beat man coverage consistently. How much longer does it take receivers to get open for first down yardage on third and long? How much longer does the offensive line have to block against the pass rush on third and long?

Commit to running the ball. To me that's going down swinging. It's a more manageable game for the offense if they can run the ball, and is everyone's friend, especially if they move the chains and help keep the defense rested.

[Pugger]

What is the main change on offense from this year to last year ? Coaches......

They made so many changes on the offensive coaching side of the ball that along the way something was lost. Clements moved from OC to Associate Head Coach. Edgar Bennett moved from WR to OC. Alex Van Pelt added WR coach to his duties.

I watch replays of games and see horrible route running and route concepts. Multiple receivers within 10 yards of each other and whole quarters of the field that are empty ? It just boggles the mind. Maybe they made the playbook so complicated that the young guys are lost in actually knowing the routes to run? I mean, the play in the first half where Rogers is rolling right on a scarmble and Adams breaks off his in route and runs toward the opposite sideline ? WTF is that ? Why make a play harder than it has to be.

That and guys not making plays. For example. 1st quarter, Packers had gotten a first down on a runing play, next play play action for Abredderis who is open crossing the field and drops an easy catch. Just looks like poor preparation to me and that starts at the top.

I've bitched a few times in the past about the offensive coaching changes - especially having Van Pelt in charge of both the QBs and WRs - and was told I was just making excuses. IMO Mac over-reacted to the NFCC loss last season and tried to fix something that really didn't need fixing. :-|