An Early Look At The Year in Review - Defense

[beveaux1]

Thought I'd do something that usually is done after the season. Post where we are as a team and what went right and what went wrong this season. Let's start with the defense. If this is interesting and spurs discussion, we can look at the special teams, and the offense.

In 2014, our defense ranked 18th in YPG, 14th in points allowed, 10th in passing YPG, and 23rd in rushing YPG. They ranked 18th in 3rd down efficiency and 23rd in 4th down efficiency.
In 2015 through 15 games, our defense ranks 14th in YPG, 10th in points allowed, 13th in passing YPG, and 12th in rushing YPG. They rank 10th in 3rd down efficiency and 12th in 4th down efficiency.

In almost every category, they've shown significant improvement. Our defense ranks in the top half of the league in nearly every category except fumbles recovered and we rank in the top 10 in interceptions.

I think going into this year, we would have looked at that improvement and seen a team poised to win a super bowl.

[Fritz]

Thought I'd do something that usually is done after the season. Post where we are as a team and what went right and what went wrong this season. Let's start with the defense. If this is interesting and spurs discussion, we can look at the special teams, and the offense.

In 2014, our defense ranked 18th in YPG, 14th in points allowed, 10th in passing YPG, and 23rd in rushing YPG. They ranked 18th in 3rd down efficiency and 23rd in 4th down efficiency.
In 2015 through 15 games, our defense ranks 14th in YPG, 10th in points allowed, 13th in passing YPG, and 12th in rushing YPG. They rank 10th in 3rd down efficiency and 12th in 4th down efficiency.

In almost every category, they've shown significant improvement. Our defense ranks in the top half of the league in nearly every category except fumbles recovered and we rank in the top 10 in interceptions.

I think going into this year, we would have looked at that improvement and seen a team poised to win a super bowl.


I see it as a good defense. Not a great defense, not a Ravens-type defense from back in the day where it could win you a championship, but a good defense that could help you win a championship if you had a respectable, more solid offense. I think those defensive rankings would be even better if the defense weren't on the field so much lately - at least against Arizona, and probably a few others.

Funny, Peppers isn't having as good a year as he did last year, but the defense overall seems better. Raji? The rookie corners? I wonder why.

[beveaux1]

Our DL of Raji, Daniels, and Pennel has shown as much improvement as any on our defense. Jones and Guion have been pretty dependable as replacements or speed rushers. Match their production with that of Guion, Daniels, and Boyd or Jones in 2014. Really no contest.

At ILB, we started last year with Hawk and B Jones. We replaced B Jones with Barrington, then Lattimore played some. We finally ended with Matthews and Barrington. This year, Matthews and Palmer have started the most, but Ryan appears to have beaten out Palmer as the replacement for the injured Barrington. This is still the weakest group on the defense, but it is quite a bit better than the starters from last year. I think most would like to see Matthews able to move to OLB full time to make better use of his edge rushing skills.

Finally, our DBs have been pretty good for the most part this year. We drafted 2 CBs with our first picks of the draft and have played both of them a lot. Randall and Rollins have played as well, if not better than, the departed Williams and House. Hayward has played much more this year than last year and as a slot corner, has gotten better since the beginning of the year. Shields has played very well matching with the opposition's best receiver. At safety, Clinton-Dix has not shown as much improvement as hoped for, but Burnett has played as expected and Hyde has done fairly well covering TEs and backs.

[Fritz]

I think Hayward will be gone, but I also think he has played well recently. He'll be missed - I'd rather have him than Hyde, given a choice between the two.

This defense needs more speed, I think. I wonder if Barrington is really going to be much of an upgrade over Ryan. I'd like to see them draft some speed at linebacker inside, move Clay back out, and draft another outside linebacker. Or make Datone Jones that guy, and draft a 5-tech.

[beveaux1]

Don't know what happened to the ball hawking style of Hayward. I don't think he has even one interception. I agree that he's better than Hyde in the slot. D Jones seems to be wearing out a little. He seems more sudden as a pass rushing lineman than an OLB. I think they're trying to figure out what to do with Neal, Perry, and Peppers this off season. Maybe Jones fills a role. On defense, MLB is their top need, but their isn't usually a lot out there to draft.

[pbmax]

A very good read. The numbers are in line with my impression during the season.

[beveaux1]

My impression, too. I think we're seeing a lot more 3 and outs and more 3rd down stops, in general. We're not a great defense, but we're pretty good. I think that was on every fan's wish list for the year.

[pbmax]

Yeah, this year's Defense and last year's offense would be pretty good. We basically saw that at the end of last year.

I am curious about Matthews lack of production though. Last year when the D got better, he almost seemed like the entire reason (though having Perry at OLB helped the run D quite a bit). This year I wonder if its still mostly unfamiliarity with ILB (and better contributions from his teammates) or his constant moving around.

[beveaux1]

That and other teams scheming to stay away from him. I don't see a lack of effort. I see some missed tackles. Some that would have been tackles for loss. We call him an ILB, but he's really a hybrid, playing outside almost as much. He's also been in coverage a lot more than in past seasons.

[mraynrand]

That and other teams scheming to stay away from him. I don't see a lack of effort. I see some missed tackles. Some that would have been tackles for loss. We call him an ILB, but he's really a hybrid, playing outside almost as much. He's also been in coverage a lot more than in past seasons.

Clay is also playing some team ball - he's throwing his body in there to open up lanes for others and to disrupt the flow, especially I see this in his run fits. Sometimes it looks like he's just wasting his body, taking himself out of the play, but often the overall play result is pretty good.
You can clearly see the improvement in the defense. As PB suggests, with a more competent offense it seems like their numbers would be even better.

[pbmax]

Clay is also playing some team ball - he's throwing his body in there to open up lanes for others and to disrupt the flow, especially I see this in his run fits. Sometimes it looks like he's just wasting his body, taking himself out of the play, but often the overall play result is pretty good.
You can clearly see the improvement in the defense. As PB suggests, with a more competent offense it seems like their numbers would be even better.

You think he has the take on the Guard/Center job? Not the cleanup guy? Buck versus Mack I think

[mraynrand]

You think he has the take on the Guard/Center job? Not the cleanup guy? Buck versus Mack I think

he seems to be doing some of both. There are several plays I recall though where he throws himself at a blockers' feet (outside), knocks him down, and then the blocker and Clay are on the ground - trash that the RB has to get through or around and can't, and the rest of the defense swarms in and finishes him off.

[pbmax]

he seems to be doing some of both. There are several plays I recall though where he throws himself at a blockers' feet (outside), knocks him down, and then the blocker and Clay are on the ground - trash that the RB has to get through or around and can't, and the rest of the defense swarms in and finishes him off.

I think that might be fair. I have seen him do that inside like Bishop or Barrington did. Sometimes you just have to plug your gap.

[beveaux1]

I would say that Matthews is not a problem that needs fixing. My unqualified observation is that his play has not really declined. He's the best ILB we have with coverage considered and the best OLB we have with pursuit and contain considered.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I would say that Matthews is not a problem that needs fixing. My unqualified observation is that his play has not really declined. He's the best ILB we have with coverage considered and the best OLB we have with pursuit and contain considered.Maybe not fixing by Dom, but fixing by TT?

I wonder how the defense compares this year against last in terms of sacks and QB-hurries? That might be the one area I'd like to improve big time on this defense. We are at a disadvantage against elite QB's when we can't put pressure on them. Palmer had too much time last Sunday. When he was pressured, he made mistakes. This is an element we need to fix and Clay is our best pressure guy. Putting him at ILB and pass coverage is a waste IMO.

I like Ariens' moving Buchannon to ILB. That would give us pass coverage and move Clay back to what he does best. Just off the top of my head, what if we "Buchannoned" a guy like Hyde, Gunter or maybe even Burnett...or drafted somebody in the mold of Buchannon rather than the usual Jake Ryan-type?

[mraynrand]

I would say that Matthews is not a problem that needs fixing. My unqualified observation is that his play has not really declined. He's the best ILB we have with coverage considered and the best OLB we have with pursuit and contain considered.

I agree. What needs fixing is the personnel situation so that he can be moved to where he's most effective.

[mraynrand]

I like Ariens' moving Buchannon to ILB. That would give us pass coverage and move Clay back to what he does best. Just off the top of my head, what if we "Buchannoned" a guy like Hyde, Gunter or maybe even Burnett...or drafted somebody in the mold of Buchannon rather than the usual Jake Ryan-type?

I was thinking the same thing after Ryan got scorched the first time - put a safety in at ILB - AZ was getting the best of us matchup-wise.

That being said, I don't blame the defense for the loss at all. They gave up a respectable amount of points, that with a competent GB offense should have been enough to win on the road against a very good offense.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I was thinking the same thing after Ryan got scorched the first time - put a safety in at ILB - AZ was getting the best of us matchup-wise.

That being said, I don't blame the defense for the loss at all. They gave up a respectable amount of points, that with a competent GB offense should have been enough to win on the road against a very good offense.Agreed. Nothing a defense can do against scoop-sixes and pick-sixes, fumbles and interceptions. I'm just spit-balling ideas to make our defense better, or even somewhat dominating.

[Carolina_Packer]

Don't know what happened to the ball hawking style of Hayward. I don't think he has even one interception. I agree that he's better than Hyde in the slot. D Jones seems to be wearing out a little. He seems more sudden as a pass rushing lineman than an OLB. I think they're trying to figure out what to do with Neal, Perry, and Peppers this off season. Maybe Jones fills a role. On defense, MLB is their top need, but their isn't usually a lot out there to draft.

I think the fact that in 2012 they had pretty established guys like Woodson, Williams, Shields, that Hayward could come in and play well in a complementary role vs. playing more snaps and being relied on more heavily. Plus, I wonder if all the hamstring issues he had sapped some of his quickness. He typically seems late in coverage.

[Carolina_Packer]

Maybe not fixing by Dom, but fixing by TT?

I wonder how the defense compares this year against last in terms of sacks and QB-hurries? That might be the one area I'd like to improve big time on this defense. We are at a disadvantage against elite QB's when we can't put pressure on them. Palmer had too much time last Sunday. When he was pressured, he made mistakes. This is an element we need to fix and Clay is our best pressure guy. Putting him at ILB and pass coverage is a waste IMO.

I like Ariens' moving Buchannon to ILB. That would give us pass coverage and move Clay back to what he does best. Just off the top of my head, what if we "Buchannoned" a guy like Hyde, Gunter or maybe even Burnett...or drafted somebody in the mold of Buchannon rather than the usual Jake Ryan-type?

A couple of years ago I was hoping TT would get Telvin Smith and turn him into that type of a player. The Jags got him for a steal in the 5th round. He's listed at 6'3 and 225 lbs. I recall some saying that Sean Richardson could play that same type of role as well.

[beveaux1]

Maybe not fixing by Dom, but fixing by TT?

I wonder how the defense compares this year against last in terms of sacks and QB-hurries? That might be the one area I'd like to improve big time on this defense. We are at a disadvantage against elite QB's when we can't put pressure on them. Palmer had too much time last Sunday. When he was pressured, he made mistakes. This is an element we need to fix and Clay is our best pressure guy. Putting him at ILB and pass coverage is a waste IMO.

I like Ariens' moving Buchannon to ILB. That would give us pass coverage and move Clay back to what he does best. Just off the top of my head, what if we "Buchannoned" a guy like Hyde, Gunter or maybe even Burnett...or drafted somebody in the mold of Buchannon rather than the usual Jake Ryan-type?

Last year we were tied for ninth with 41 sacks. This year we're tied for 7th with 40 sacks. I haven't been able to find anything on hurries because that's pretty subjective. If anyone else comes across this, let us know. Except for 3 games in a row starting with Denver, I've subjectively thought that we've gotten pretty good pressure on the QB.

As to the point about replacing Ryan with a Buchanon type. I think we're trying that with Joe Thomas. Unfortunately, he does seem to get run over pretty easily.

[mraynrand]

As to the point about replacing Ryan with a Buchanon type. I think we're trying that with Joe Thomas. Unfortunately, he does seem to get run over pretty easily.

Don't you think that's mostly because he is playing on his heels? I think he looks pretty lost out there and slow to react too often.

[mraynrand]

A couple of years ago I was hoping TT would get Telvin Smith and turn him into that type of a player. The Jags got him for a steal in the 5th round. He's listed at 6'3 and 225 lbs. I recall some saying that Sean Richardson could play that same type of role as well.

Yeah, that's why I wanted Shazier last year. Still, the guy is made out of porcelain.

[beveaux1]

Don't you think that's mostly because he is playing on his heels? I think he looks pretty lost out there and slow to react too often.

Probably a reason he wasn't drafted and struggled to make the team.

[pbmax]

Football Outsiders has Packers 9th in D, 7th versus Pass and 18th versus Run. Last year they were 16th/11th/24th. Its across the board improvement.

Pass rush, while they do not have numbers in the free section, seems to have improved slightly. Bigger difference in Run D.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2014

[Maxie the Taxi]

A couple of years ago I was hoping TT would get Telvin Smith and turn him into that type of a player. The Jags got him for a steal in the 5th round. He's listed at 6'3 and 225 lbs. I recall some saying that Sean Richardson could play that same type of role as well.Man, I was on that bandwagon too. Saw Smith play alot at FS. What I don't understand is TT's apparent lack of interest in a talent like that. Seemed like a tremendous value choice to me. Maybe they have physical criteria for ILB's like they have for CB's.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Maybe Capers has improved? Defense isn't the dumpster fire it was 3 short years ago.

[beveaux1]

Maybe Capers has improved? Defense isn't the dumpster fire it was 3 short years ago.

That or they have more horses on defense, the result of 2 straight defense heavy drafts.

[beveaux1]

You know, by and large we've responded to our critical shortcomings of speed on defense. We have guys that can run to the football and other than Peppers, they're pretty young.

[Bretsky]

DEAR WIST.....repent and be baptized............come out and give Dom Capers his kudos !!!

[Smidgeon]

That or they have more horses on defense, the result of 2 straight defense heavy drafts.

In that same vein, maybe Capers has always been a good coach, but he's been working with talented players that haven't translated well to the NFL acquired via a process that is a glorified crap shoot but is still often better than taking another team's trash and trying to turn it into your treasure.

[beveaux1]

In that same vein, maybe Capers has always been a good coach, but he's been working with talented players that haven't translated well to the NFL acquired via a process that is a glorified crap shoot but is still often better than taking another team's trash and trying to turn it into your treasure.

Capers has always been a good coach. Hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.That's what Chip said.

[wist43]

DEAR WIST.....repent and be baptized............come out and give Dom Capers his kudos !!!

No, No way, No fucking way!!!

Dunderdummy is a plague that needs to be jettisoned into outer space!!! The fumes off of his spraypainted hair alone are enough to cause the entire team hallucinations... hence, the offenses problems are coming from Dunderdummy as well!!!

Make no mistake, Dunderdummy is the root of all evil!!!

[pbmax]

Well, we know what wasn't on wist's New Year's resolution list. :D

[esoxx]

No, No way, No fucking way!!!

Dunderdummy is a plague that needs to be jettisoned into outer space!!! The fumes off of his spraypainted hair alone are enough to cause the entire team hallucinations... hence, the offenses problems are coming from Dunderdummy as well!!!

Make no mistake, Dunderdummy is the root of all evil!!!

Steely analysis :lol: