More Banjo: Week 17 vs Vikings

[pbmax]

2 game losing streak. Yippie.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX2cZwCWMAE-DMi.jpg:large

[denverYooper]

Whatevs.

Now is the time for irrational optimism.

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX2amgcVAAAN2eq.jpg:large

[esoxx]

disregard

[TravisWilliams23]

Please oh pleas Fox, send Aikman and Buck to Minnesota.....PLEASE!!

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX2YDouWwAEggIK.png:large

[woodbuck27]

At least we're in.

[pbmax]

Please oh pleas Fox, send Aikman and Buck to Minnesota.....PLEASE!!

Nope. That is the NBC game I think :)

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 8m8 minutes ago
McCarthy: Congratulations to Minnesota for winning the division. Obviously a disappointing loss at home. We didn't do enough. #MINvsGB

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 7m7 minutes ago
McCarthy: I told the football team that it's important to turn the page. Playoff season is here.

[TravisWilliams23]

Nope. That is the NBC game I think :)

Poopy :sad:

[pbmax]

No such thing as momentum.

Matt Lepay ‏@MattLepay 7m7 minutes ago
Last 5 SB champs down stretch of reg season: 3-3, 2-4, 3-3, 4-2, 4-2. Ravens lost 4 of last 5. Momentum is nice, but overrated.Just sayin

[denverYooper]

Ravens were all but out until Flacco hit that bomb to Jacoby Jones in Denver that year.

Jacoby Jones
Jeffery Janis

Erie, isn't it?

[smuggler]

Meh. Could have been worse. There wasn't a big penalty for losing the division, so it really doesn't matter. Have fun with the Seachikens, Rastak! (Someone's gotta lose!)

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 22m22 minutes ago
Rodgers: Washington's a good football team...We've just got to focus on them. It's a normal week playing Sunday. We'll be ready to play.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 22m22 minutes ago
Rodgers: We've got to be more consistent. If we do that we can make a run.

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX2h4mjUkAE1odv.png:large

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 21m21 minutes ago
#Packers G Josh Sitton said he found out for sure he'd be playing LT 3 hours before the game. Said he worked both positions during the week.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 20m20 minutes ago
It apparently took that long before it was determined that LT David Bakhtiari wouldn't be able to play. Sitton hadn't played LT since H.S.

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen ‏@Michael_Cohen13 18m18 minutes ago
#Packers LB Joe Thomas said the defense would like to pitch a shutout every game but their goal is 17 points. Gave up 13 tonight and lost.

[Patler]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX2h4mjUkAE1odv.png:large


Those don't look like losing stats. Especially not a game they were out of seemingly from the start.

[Striker]

Please oh pleas Fox, send Aikman and Buck to Minnesota.....PLEASE!!

I'd wager the late game gets the #1 team.

[esoxx]

Fox only has one of the games next weekend and that's the pack. So Buck & Suck it will be.

[mraynrand]

Ravens were all but out until Flacco hit that bomb to Jacoby Jones in Denver that year.

Jacoby Jones
Jeffery Janis

Erie, isn't it?

Packers have shown little to no desire to throw deep to anyone but Jones. The tunnel vision of Rodgers is problematic.

[denverYooper]

Those don't look like losing stats. Especially not a game they were out of seemingly from the start.

They wouldn't have been except that the 2 turnovers from Rodgers were costly -- 1 fumble returned for a TD, 1 INT in the end zone that took points off of the board (and nullified Patterson's gaffe).

It could have easily been a 16-13 game but for those 2 mistakes.

[mraynrand]

^^^ Yep, the offensive ineptitude once again simply gave points ways. You know it's bad when kneel-downs are positive plays.

[Freak Out]

Packers have shown little to no desire to throw deep to anyone but Jones. The tunnel vision of Rodgers is problematic.

This is the real killer....he is so hesitant to just let it rip. He drops...looks for pressure and not the receivers...and then scrambles. No rhythm at all.

[pbmax]

I have amended my official diagnosis to something even worse for the offense.

I think the offense M3 is calling is flat out failing across the board with the exception of last night's run game (especially with Starks). His pass calls were all either very short or led to long wait times in the pocket. I don't think that is by design. And this is not just slap at M3, Clements wasn't having better luck. Between the WR not getting open fast and the QB not trusting the corps on a lot of routes, its dysfunctional.

The late game offensive surges I think have largely been a by product of playground ball.

For proof I offer you the short throw late in the 4th throw wide of Cobb in the middle of the field with Kendricks in coverage. Collingsworth said it was Kendricks getting better at covering Cobb on those routes but the replay showed something else. Cobb sat on his initial route like he was in a hole in the zone. But then Rodgers moved and Cobb took off again, this time up the field (which was empty and a good read as far as it went).

Rodgers saw Cobb moving again but threw as if the route was continuing across. And he obvious missed wide. 4th Quarter surges might be the product of the scramble drill offense.

I think there was another example earlier with a deep route to Jones that everyone saw Rodgers miss short. It was surprising because Rodgers usually misses those routes long, though lately there have been several examples of short throws. When they replayed the iso camera on the route, Jones made two separate moves, two Stop and Gos, which I have never seen in a single route. Out and up? Sure. Fly route with outside release to an In? Sure. Stop and Go? Yes.

But never Stop and Go and Stop and Go. Like Cobb, and to Jones' credit, he got wide open. But that wasn't the route called and Rodgers was now on the move. And he had a guy crashing in to tackle him immediately after the throw. They don't practice that route. So there is no muscle memory of how to get Jones the ball at that spot having moved off his normal launch point. Its always going to be less reliable than a normal 9 route on 3rd and 2.

There is nothing in this offense except the run game that is working according to plan. Its a failure of the WR and Rodgers yes. But its also a failure of the coaches not to find something they can run. These receivers are not this limited, nor is the QB.

[mraynrand]

^ not only that, but a lot of the routes are just run and stop. Seriously, they run to the coverage and stop. Or worse, they make one two or three back and forth fakes. Nothing kills a pattern, diminishes speed, and is as easy to cover as multiple fakes from a halted position. You have to make one attempt at an ankle-breaking move and continue on your patter - especially when you know the QB is under pressure. Otherwise Rodgers has no clue where you are.

Second, you can throw tall guys open. Richard Rodgers is actually always open, if you just put the ball higher and/or in front. Worried about Cobb being double covered in the short flat or short middle? Send Rodgers out to the other side and have him sit down in a spot and throw the ball up about 7 feet where only he can catch it. Same for Adams. So the fuck what that Adams might drop it - you gotta try.

Finally, stop throwing underneath passes to guys who are short of the line of scrimmage. No one gets a pass if they aren't at least three yards upfield and NO ONE gets a pass on a third or fourth down if they are not past the first down marker. Check downs don't work if they lose yardage.

[pbmax]

Finally, stop throwing underneath passes to guys who are short of the line of scrimmage. No one gets a pass if they aren't at least three yards upfield and NO ONE gets a pass on a third or fourth down if they are not past the first down marker. Check downs don't work if they lose yardage.

But this is what everyone has been screaming for since Week 7. Short passes so the QB doesn't have to sit in the pocket. I'd be curious their success rate with those. I remember 2 big stops but several went for first downs.

[mraynrand]

^^ I'm not arguing for more short passes, just short passes that actually make sense. The tosses in the flat, etc. that go for -2 yards are just stupid. R. Rodgers has broken one tackle all year. He can't beat anyone, so don't ask him to do it. Cobb is too tiny to win those battles, Kuhn is too slow. Get upfield or don't throw to them. Take a knee if no one is open.

Or throw high to the tall guy or the leaper. Or deep to the fast guy.

[Patler]

There is nothing in this offense except the run game that is working according to plan. Its a failure of the WR and Rodgers yes. But its also a failure of the coaches not to find something they can run. These receivers are not this limited, nor is the QB.

Some of us having been trying to say this for a month and more. Crucifying just the WRs and/or playcalling for this failure is much too simplistic. The offense has often looked confused, ill-prepared and out of sync. I hate to say this, because I have admired him as a position coach for years, but I think a bunch of the blame has to go to Edgar Bennett for this. He is the guy in charge of putting it all together on the practice field to create a cohesive unit functioning in unison. I praised him as a position coach when his groups excelled, adapted and improved. Now that he has unit responsibility, it is fair to hold him responsible for the units lack of cohesiveness.

Not preparing the WRs and/or giving them the tools to deal with coverage changes falls on Van Pelt and the lack of a dedicated WR coach.

Refusing to provide help to backup tackles in pass pro, failure to devise ways to get people open, etc, fall on the top three minds on offense (MM, TC and EB). They design the offense, work out the game plan, prepare the team to execute the game plan and call the plays.

[Patler]

. R. Rodgers has broken one tackle all year. He can't beat anyone, so don't ask him to do it.

I almost lost my mind when they went to him with no timeouts left and expected him to get out of bounds by doing anything more than just falling over.

[pbmax]

^^ I'm not arguing for more short passes, just short passes that actually make sense. The tosses in the flat, etc. that go for -2 yards are just stupid. R. Rodgers has broken one tackle all year. He can't beat anyone, so don't ask him to do it. Cobb is too tiny to win those battles, Kuhn is too slow. Get upfield or don't throw to them. Take a knee if no one is open.

Or throw high to the tall guy or the leaper. Or deep to the fast guy.

I don't mind them as they can break, even if their success rate is not 100%. But they are not my favorite 3rd down play. And I agree Rodgers should be blocking not running those throws.

[mraynrand]

Reading the comments after the game it's clear the Packers have little clue why they are failing, and have no idea what to do about it.

[pbmax]

Reading the comments after the game it's clear the Packers have little clue why they are failing, and have no idea what to do about it.

I agree. Otherwise there would have been more and different changes. No matter what Joe Morgan thinks, you don't just get more consistent by doing the same failing thing more and more. Unless your goal is to be consistently poor.

This might be an inevitable feature of McCarthy's offense and if so, that is problematic in the least (maybe for any offense). Favre spent all of 2007 changing things at the line and getting a cold shoulder from the sideline in return. Rodgers is now doing something similar (even if it more often takes the form of dropping back and waiting for lightning to strike).

Its not that the scheme is a failure. But circumstances have descended that render it inoperable. In 2007, the offense was in a very similar quagmire at the start of the season until slowly gaining traction with Grant running ZBS.

So they take the opportunity to retire Brett and put a QB in that is more willing to run it as called. After 1.5 years of trial and error, it takes off. But it evolves past the original concept to deal with the ever changing responses of the defense. And as that change happens, Rodgers is more at the helm.

Now its a convoluted mess without the parts available to make it work. I think the no huddle was a partial response to this as was the dedication to getting Lacy the ball. But the no-huddle solved some issues (less deep receiving corps) and exacerbated others (speed, experience, deep targets).

He needs a complete re-think. I almost want Clements to find another job just to get someone else in there to push M3 in a new direction.

[mraynrand]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

[pbmax]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

I don't think 2011 through six games of 2015 were a mirage, but the further it went along, it required an overwhelming advantage somewhere or the Rodgers variation of M3's offense. Until this year, they had Rodgers and Nelson, so they had both.

If you have an O line that can pass block for 5 seconds, you can also do damage to any defense.

I thought their only hope this year was to go back to multiple packages, but even in the last two games with two TEs and Cobb in the backfield, it hasn't worked.

But let's face it, the one thing that changed this year was the inability to go deep. This has never been an offense that goes 14 pays 80 yards with frequency. I don't know if that can be fixed in a week.

[mraynrand]

I think their only hope left is to work the middle with R. Rodgers and Cobb, and a check down. Some slants, some crossing routes with Abracadabra, and some deep tries to Janis.

[pbmax]

At least this was fun. Raise your hand of you though Zook and Capers would have the best coaching year.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/CX4k7xzW8AA5Nie.gif

[Patler]

Some slants, some crossing routes with Abracadabra, and some deep tries to Janis.

Who are these guys you speak of? Do they play on offense for GB? I have heard of similar names on STs, not offense.

[pbmax]

FiveThirtyEight ‏@FiveThirtyEight 2h2 hours ago
NFL Wild Card game win probabilities: http://53eig.ht/1MeNt66


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX4kuUpWEAAIkNx.png:large

[Bossman641]

I thought their only hope this year was to go back to multiple packages, but even in the last two games with two TEs and Cobb in the backfield, it hasn't worked.

But let's face it, the one thing that changed this year was the inability to go deep. This has never been an offense that goes 14 pays 80 yards with frequency. I don't know if that can be fixed in a week.

Seriously, does anyone have a breakdown of pass attempts by distances (0-10, 11-20, 21-30, and 30+)? Outside of the Hail Mary, I'm having a hard time remembering any passes covering 30+ yards in the air that were successful.

I personally think all the talk of coordinators having figured out MM's offense is overblown. Maybe I'm simplifying things but I don't think MM and Rodgers have suddenly forgot how to coach and play football. Sometimes it just isn't your year.

The offense (and basically any offense) has always struggled against defenses that could rush 4, play press coverage, and stop the run. We always talked of needing a TE threat to attack the middle of the field in those situations.

We never got the TE but Lacy provided enough balance that even the very good defenses like Seattle weren't able to completely shut things down. Not so this year. Defenses are getting more and more aggressive each week in playing press. The WR's are too slow/bad to make defenses pay for it, and when they actually do break free Rodgers is already running for his life. The OL and Lacy are too banged up/ineffective to make the run game work and defenses are pressing and flooding the middle to shut down the short passing game.

If anything I hope this year serves as a wakeup call to Lacy. He'll never be a model but there's no excuse for him to look the way he does. He needs to get serious about his weight and offseason conditioning rather than try it out for a week and decide it's not for him.

[Smidgeon]

Stubby might think that all they need is a healthy Nelson and O-line (and maybe a refreshed and accurate Rodgers) and they can just line up and run it the same way as last year and the years before.

The general adaptation that might help would be to go against tendency. Line up to run, but pass. Draw on passing downs. Go under center and run some west coast stuff - check downs and slants. Throw down the middle to the TE, even if covered.

The patterns and receiver concepts have to change.

If my memory serves though, the offenses are rarely the same year after year. 2010 didn't look like 2011 didn't look like 2012 didn't look like 2013 didn't look like 2014 which definitely doesn't look like 2015.

This version just does not work. But next year's might.

[Bossman641]

How did neither Abby or Janis get a single offensive snap last night?

[Carolina_Packer]

Who are these guys you speak of? Do they play on offense for GB? I have heard of similar names on STs, not offense.

Nice! I feel the same way. MM seems to think that doing the same thing will lead to production at some point. You'd like to think that the coaching staff could see how they are being defensed and come up with a clever counter-punch. I know I'm sounding dangerously close to being "scheme guy" with that comment. I think more talented players beat less talented players, but I do think you can put in creative wrinkles to fix problems. If they are defending the perimeter and bracketing the deep middle and playing two high safeties, you'd think the middle of the field might have an opening. Rodgers seems to find it on the scramble drill at times. I wonder why they don't try and get more guys involved, like Quarless now that he's back, and Abby, since he can run a route.

No matter what...the O-line being banged up and giving up pressures, the running game not being able to consistently have production, the receivers getting pressed and bracketed by LB's, there has to be a counter-punch. Schematically, the whole offense cannot be predicated on taking the top off the defense.

[Smidgeon]

Seriously, does anyone have a breakdown of pass attempts by distances (0-10, 11-20, 21-30, and 30+)? Outside of the Hail Mary, I'm having a hard time remembering any passes covering 30+ yards in the air that were successful.

I personally think all the talk of coordinators having figured out MM's offense is overblown. Maybe I'm simplifying things but I don't think MM and Rodgers have suddenly forgot how to coach and play football. Sometimes it just isn't your year.

The offense (and basically any offense) has always struggled against defenses that could rush 4, play press coverage, and stop the run. We always talked of needing a TE threat to attack the middle of the field in those situations.

We never got the TE but Lacy provided enough balance that even the very good defenses like Seattle weren't able to completely shut things down. Not so this year. Defenses are getting more and more aggressive each week in playing press. The WR's are too slow/bad to make defenses pay for it, and when they actually do break free Rodgers is already running for his life. The OL and Lacy are too banged up/ineffective to make the run game work and defenses are pressing and flooding the middle to shut down the short passing game.

If anything I hope this year serves as a wakeup call to Lacy. He'll never be a model but there's no excuse for him to look the way he does. He needs to get serious about his weight and offseason conditioning rather than try it out for a week and decide it's not for him.

Plus, I'm noticing a lot of non-calls on illegal contact against the dbs. There was a lot of grabbing in the back end yesterday. No, that's not why they lost, but the WRs don't have the suddenness to combat that defending.

[woodbuck27]

If my memory serves though, the offenses are rarely the same year after year. 2010 didn't look like 2011 didn't look like 2012 didn't look like 2013 didn't look like 2014 which definitely doesn't look like 2015.

This version just does not work. But next year's might.

Having Jordy Nelson back will be huge !

After that it's all focus. He needs to ask himself if the Packer Scouting team is earning it's money.

TT has to get more aggressive at RB.

We need more at TE. An over the middle fast/strong threat.

He has to draft for more on the OL.

He's running out of Aaron Rodgers time. ARod is absorbing too much punishment as things are now.

GO PACKERS ! GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

JS Comments ‏@JSComments 44m44 minutes ago
Classic


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX5fOtpWMAAURDE.png:large

[pbmax]

JS Comments ‏@JSComments 49m49 minutes ago
Janis sits. Why?

Plaintive became the cries as the darkness swelled and threatened to encase them.

[Fosco33]

JS Comments ‏@JSComments 44m44 minutes ago
Classic


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX5fOtpWMAAURDE.png:large

Great movie.

It's more like this....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

[pbmax]

How did neither Abby or Janis get a single offensive snap last night?

Until the end, they went with a lot of two TE or two back looks. Especially in the first half. Cobb wasn't in the backfield much until the 4th Q.

[Fosco33]

Until the end, they went with a lot of two TE or two back looks. Especially in the first half. Cobb wasn't in the backfield much until the 4th Q.

At least Adams isn't getting 15-20 targets a game and jones seems to be getting more attn

[pbmax]

At least Adams isn't getting 15-20 targets a game and jones seems to be getting more attn

That might be part of the reason, but I also think M3 wants to keep Rodgers upright. Rand said they didn't help Sitton much with the DE, but they often protected with more than 5 and the TEs and Kuhn help with that.

[call_me_ishmael]

I thought Bachman was supposed to be the fast tight end. He looked somewhere between a rascal-bound-elderly-shopper and a Richard Rodgers. Terrible!

[mraynrand]

I thought Bachman was supposed to be the fast tight end. He looked somewhere between a rascal-bound-elderly-shopper and a Richard Rodgers. Terrible!

Good one. I believe you are describing Dom Capers.

[pbmax]

Wasn't the play call or the read on this one. Execution or coaching?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX87Z4CUoAAcUUj.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Good one. I believe you are describing Dom Capers.

Even his mentees are in AARP: Fangio is 57.

http://www.danpompei.net/#!vicfangiofeature/rp3zu

[mraynrand]

Scoops McGinn: "Jones ran a terrific stop-go-and-go route against Xavier Rhodes that should have been a 40-yard TD but the pass was badly under thrown."

Rodgers is supposed to throw a perfect pass on a 'stop-go-and-go' whatever that is. WTF, Bob?

[Bossman641]

Wasn't the play call or the read on this one. Execution or coaching?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX87Z4CUoAAcUUj.jpg:large

Terrible execution. Play should have resulted in 10-12 yards and allowed DickRod to have gotten out of bounds.

[Patler]

Scoops McGinn: "Jones ran a terrific stop-go-and-go route against Xavier Rhodes that should have been a 40-yard TD but the pass was badly under thrown."

Rodgers is supposed to throw a perfect pass on a 'stop-go-and-go' whatever that is. WTF, Bob?

Isn't that what he gets paid $1M+ per game to do?

[pbmax]

Isn't that what he gets paid $1M+ per game to do?

He is. But the success rate isn't going to be fantastic on a deep route improvisation when you are about to be hit from the right, meaning, you can't get dialed into his last move. There is a reason defenses want to delay routes, disrupt timing and move the QB off their spot.

On that play they did all three and that is why the Packer offense has been stultified.

[Patler]

He is. But the success rate isn't going to be fantastic on a deep route improvisation when you are about to be hit from the right, meaning, you can't get dialed into his last move. There is a reason defenses want to delay routes, disrupt timing and move the QB off their spot.

On that play they did all three and that is why the Packer offense has been stultified.

Part of what has made Rodgers great has been his accuracy on deep throws, and his accuracy while moving. He has not exhibited that this year at all often. The throw to Jones was not an exceptionally difficult one for a player of AR's caliber, or former caliber. He missed it badly. He has missed a lot of deep throws this year, more than his previous normal would suggest.

[mraynrand]

I've never before heard of a stop-go-and-go. But I have eaten at Pizza-a-go-go.

[mraynrand]

Part of what has made Rodgers great has been his accuracy on deep throws, and his accuracy while moving. He has not exhibited that this year at all often. The throw to Jones was not an exceptionally difficult one for a player of AR's caliber, or former caliber. He missed it badly. He has missed a lot of deep throws this year, more than his previous normal would suggest.

The miss on the one in question was totally understandable. Another to Jones thrown to of the end zone was not. Should have given Jones a chance to make a play on the ball or be interfered with. Also, the late INT was unforgivable. Rodgers is not sharp right now.

[Patler]

He is. But the success rate isn't going to be fantastic on a deep route improvisation when you are about to be hit from the right, meaning, you can't get dialed into his last move. There is a reason defenses want to delay routes, disrupt timing and move the QB off their spot.

On that play they did all three and that is why the Packer offense has been stultified.

On that play, they did not do all three. Rodgers never moved off the spot he set up in after taking the snap. He looked to Jones, took the stride he wanted and threw. The protection was OK. It looked like he was following Jones for most of the route, but then underthrew it badly. There might have been late pressure from his right, but it did not cause him to move, or hurry his throw, or alter his throw. I don't think he was hit at all on the throw. Had he wanted, he had room to drift to his left, as Sitton had taken his guy past and around Rodgers 3-4 yards deeper and to Rodgers right, and Walker and Linsley had the rest of that sides topped about 3-4 yards in front of Rodgers before he stepped into his throw.

[mraynrand]

^^^ I get the feeling there may be confusion about which throw was which. I remember pressure on the stop-go-and-go-go. I don't really want to look through the game to check, but I might later.

[Maxie the Taxi]

^^^Judge Judy says....For what it's worth, Patler is correct. I re-ran and stop-actioned that play several times during the game after it happened. The execution was perfect all around except for the accuracy of the throw. It was one of the few times a Packer receiver had gained separation.

[Patler]

^^^ I get the feeling there may be confusion about which throw was which. I remember pressure on the stop-go-and-go-go. I don't really want to look through the game to check, but I might later.

I did check it, before writing what I did, to be sure it was as I remembered. It was at 0:52 remaining in the 2nd. 4th down, following the review of the Richard Rodgers completed pass/fumble/incomplete review (Announcers belabored the discussion of his wrist or calf hitting the ground.)

[pbmax]

Part of what has made Rodgers great has been his accuracy on deep throws, and his accuracy while moving. He has not exhibited that this year at all often. The throw to Jones was not an exceptionally difficult one for a player of AR's caliber, or former caliber. He missed it badly. He has missed a lot of deep throws this year, more than his previous normal would suggest.

My guess is that Rodgers is a Top 5 deep thrower in the League. I've seen some passing stats at Football Perspective that usually have Roethliesberger and Palmer at the top and occasionally a couple of others. I don't think he is otherworldly, but its a strength and the Packers, more than most teams, take advantage of it. I would also put him a step or two above Favre on deep throws and it has nothing to do with arm strength.

But it requires help at the other end, even if he were the best. Jones was useless as a deep threat on a Go as a younger player until they stopped throwing it over his shoulder and started throwing it over his head (or back shouldering it). And his best deep target is gone this year.



Jordy Nelson 2014 - - - - - - Result Result Result Result Result Results
Tm Games Play To Go YARDS 1stDown% TurnO% TD FG 1st Int Fum Sack
GNB 15 36 8.25 28.86 100.00% 0.00% 8 0 36 0 0 0
Totals 15 36 8.25 28.86 100.00% 0.00% 8 0 36 0 0 0
Pct 22.20% 0% 100% 0% 0% 0%



Nelson was on the receiving end of 36 pass plays greater than 15 yards, yielding 36 more first downs (likely 28 if exclude TDs) and 8 TDs.

Some portion of Nelson is responsible for almost 2 first downs per game and 3.5 points per game just on long balls (though I cannot separate out YAC). And that leaves his other targets and catches to be redistributed to the other current receivers this year (62 catches and 5 TDs).

Would you remember the overthrows to Adams and Janis, or the under throws to Jones if the Packers had 36 more deep plays?

Rodgers isn't blameless, his play has been very average at best over the last 12 games. But I think the answer to the deep plays is more personnel than Rodgers.

[pbmax]

Are we sure Rodgers wasn't knocked or tackled to the ground after releasing that ball? I could be misremembering it.

[Patler]

Are we sure Rodgers wasn't knocked or tackled to the ground after releasing that ball? I could be misremembering it.

If he was, it should have been a penalty. Just watched it again. As Rodgers is cocking his arm, there is no one very close to him. The video breaks away from him to follow the ball after he has released it, and when Rodgers is last seen it doesn't appear that he has been touched, and the ball is well on its flight. The view was distant, not tight, showing a full 20 yards on my screen. The nearest rusher looks to be a good two steps away, with Rodgers basically stationary. At most, one defender may have love-tapped him but certainly should not have been allowed to tackle him or even hit him at all hard.

[pbmax]

The play I remember he got tackled from right to left after he stepped up and slid over left a step. So I might be confusing two different plays. But I stand by the point, his O line has compounded the problems he has had connecting with this group of receivers deep. And even when clean, he has no feel how to connect deep with them.

To pull back a bit, outside of Magical Abby, he also has not formed any kind of rapport with other receivers. Force feeding Adams didn't work. Jones is limited physically. I can accept that the coaching staff is more down on Janis than Rodgers, but Abby on the bench just seems counter productive at this point.

[Fritz]

They should call that route the Whiskey-a-go-go in honor of Jim Morrison.

To me, that was a throw Rodgers hasn't missed in years past. Not like he's missed this year. There was another play earlier, for a first down, that looked like by NFL standards an easy out. Rodgers nearly threw it into the stands, and he had no pressure. He just missed it. This must be what it feels like for most NFL fans.

Increasingly, I blame Olivia Munn.

[Patler]

They should call that route the Whiskey-a-go-go in honor of Jim Morrison.

To me, that was a throw Rodgers hasn't missed in years past. Not like he's missed this year. There was another play earlier, for a first down, that looked like by NFL standards an easy out. Rodgers nearly threw it into the stands, and he had no pressure. He just missed it. This must be what it feels like for most NFL fans.

Increasingly, I blame Olivia Munn.

Might be the same play I am remembering that was also to Jones. He turned for the ball, and his shoulders and arms just dropped. You could see how his body was coiled to go for the ball, and when he saw the throw everything drained. The body language was "What the heck...?"

[Carolina_Packer]

Ravens were all but out until Flacco hit that bomb to Jacoby Jones in Denver that year.

Jacoby Jones
Jeffery Janis

Erie, isn't it?

I think Huron to something. Just don't act Superior.

[Fritz]

Might be the same play I am remembering that was also to Jones. He turned for the ball, and his shoulders and arms just dropped. You could see how his body was coiled to go for the ball, and when he saw the throw everything drained. The body language was "What the heck...?"

Yes, it was to Jones, in the first half. It was strange because there was no pressure and Jones was wide open. And the only way you could say Jones ran the wrong route would be if he was supposed to cut hard outside until he was levitating seven yards in the air by the Gatorade stand seven yards behind the sideline. That's how bad that throw was.

[Carolina_Packer]

Part of what has made Rodgers great has been his accuracy on deep throws, and his accuracy while moving. He has not exhibited that this year at all often. The throw to Jones was not an exceptionally difficult one for a player of AR's caliber, or former caliber. He missed it badly. He has missed a lot of deep throws this year, more than his previous normal would suggest.

As I wondered in a different thread last week; is this the result of all the hits, hurries and sacks, and the frustration of having no consistent man beaters at WR? As cool and collected as AR seems to be at times, how could the cumulative affects of both not get you off your game?

[Bossman641]

As I wondered in a different thread last week; is this the result of all the hits, hurries and sacks, and the frustration of having no consistent man beaters at WR? As cool and collected as AR seems to be at times, how could the cumulative affects of both not get you off your game?

That's my guess. He's double clutching all the time because more and more the offense has to resort to sandlot ball. Any time Rodgers goes to throw the WR is starting-and-stopping to a new location. Combine that with the pass protection and the fact that the WR's rarely get much separation and I can't believe his confidence wouldn't be shot.

[mraynrand]

They should call that route the Whiskey-a-go-go in honor of Jim Morrison.

the lovely Rhonda Lane!